[Gimp-developer] Re: [Gimp-user] The Gimp Foundation
Hi, Daniel Rogers [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As was discussed at Gimp Con 2003 (and before, frankly) I am in the process of incorporating The GIMP Foundation as a non-profit organization devoted to supporting the gimp. Thanks a lot for organizing this. Here are some of the ideas I am currently mulling over regarding TGF: Selling t-shirts, coffee cups, lapel pins, posters, etc. Selling printed manuals. Selling GPL complient binary and source disributions on cd. Selling and paying people to go train and give presentations on the GIMP. Public and private grants. (someone (like me) will need to apply for these) Tax deductable donations. buying hardware (computers, tablets, scanners, colorimeters). full color magazine ads free training sessions office space accounting legal expenses staff paying programmers, web designers, tech writers constructing a build farm (this would help both developers and in making a cd distribution). This sounds a lot more like an attempt to bring WilberWorks back to life than what I was imaging from such a foundation. IMO it should be a lot less commercially oriented but maybe I am only getting a wrong impression from looking at this list. I don't think a GIMP foundation should share any interests with companies like for example MacGIMP. IMO a foundation should not sell anything. It should serve as a representant of the GIMP developers and it may accept donations (actually that's one of the major points). It should also help to create contacts between the GIMP community and people that seek for advice or need speakers. But IMHO there should be no t-shirts, no printed manuals, no CDs and most importanyly no ads. If someone wants to do this kind of stuff, feel free to found a company and try your luck. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The Gimp Foundation
Daniel Rogers wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I am not subscribed to gimp-web, so if you are only replying to that address, I won't get the message As was discussed at Gimp Con 2003 (and before, frankly) I am in the process of incorporating The GIMP Foundation as a non-profit organization devoted to supporting the gimp. As this point, nothing (including the name) is set in stone. I have a legal clinic doing some research to help inform me about how to form the corporation and my (and its) legal responsibilities. This service is free, but limited. I will need to seek the advice of some other attorney (of which I have a list of about two potentially helpful lawyers) to anything TGF needs in the future. What I am working on, though, is what to do with TGF. What I want from everyone else is two things: ideas about what to do with TGF and questions anyone may have about TGF. I want make sure that these things have time get discussed with the lawyer and to try to help keep our community more informed of these matters. So please, if anyone has any questions about how TGF will work and what you would like to see it do, send them to me. I will work on providing answers. Here are some of the ideas I am currently mulling over regarding TGF: Selling t-shirts, coffee cups, lapel pins, posters, etc. Selling printed manuals. When I looked into this sometime back, I watched the gnome foundation elections on the irc. This is probably not the best view of a foundation, however, I really wanted nothing to do with it. It seems like if there is money available to aid with TheGIMP, the easier it is for the people to contact the person most involved with this area -- then the decision can be made by the person who is to do the task or what have you. I understand that this is a dangerous practice; however there are other dangers in other practices as well. I am trying to bring the gimp authors more to the foreground (which is at the core of my problem with docbook, the author credit is so far nested into the information and xslt is still such a challenge) and I guess I would rather trust each individuals ability to determine what should go to gimp and what should stay with them. If you develop TheGIMP right now, and you get offered some money, it is difficult to give any of it back. Having a place and an easy interface to deposit money would be nice I think, and good therapy for any who received more than they gave (deep down everyone knows). I would like to buy some teeshirts, however. Any maybe if there is a particularly popular teeshirt design, we can put it into a more official copyleft sort of production. I am not certain if I am making sense (again); but no matter what is going on and all the evidence against this belief, I tend to believe more in individuals and their conscience than in organizations. People can get and install gimp on their own. Selling a distribution is sort of like preying on the ignorant. This has happened to me, and I didn't like it. carol ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] Re: [Gimp-user] The Gimp Foundation
Sven Neumann wrote: This sounds a lot more like an attempt to bring WilberWorks Wilber what? I plead ignorant. back to life than what I was imaging from such a foundation. IMO it should be a lot less commercially oriented but maybe I am only getting a wrong impression from looking at this list. I don't think a GIMP foundation should share any interests with companies like for example MacGIMP. IMO a foundation should not sell anything. It should serve as a representant of the GIMP developers and it may accept donations (actually that's one of the major points). And donations would be one of its major points. However having a reliable source of money, like manual and chachka sales can only help TGF be more helpful. Basically, _anything_ TGF does will cost money. The more money it has, the more helpful things it can do. The FSF foundation, for example, collects membership dues (which are tax deductable donations) and sells tshirts, pins, stickers, posters, manuals, cds, has a corporate patronage program, in addition to seeking out private donations. The gnome foundation at least has tshirts, coffee mugs and the like that it gives to big donators, and is making some kind of noise about setting up a store. The mozilla foundation doesn't have these things, but I am willing to bet that they will in the future. Essentially, I can't run this thing forever, for free. There needs to be some way of making enough money to reliably pay for things like filing fees. Besides, people are more willing to donate money if we can give them something for the donation. As for being a representative of the GIMP developers, I think this should be TGF's primary responsibility. However, doing that also costs money. There are phone bills, mailing costs, travel costs, gas costs, my accounting is _almost_ free but will still cost something (and accounting is important to keep our tax-exempt status). It should also help to create contacts between the GIMP community and people that seek for advice or need speakers. But IMHO there should be no t-shirts, no printed manuals, no CDs and most importanyly no ads. If someone wants to do this kind of stuff, feel free to found a company and try your luck. Yes. I hope I haven't mislead people into thinking I am trying to start some kind of commerical venture. Believe me, I am not. However, I am trying to think of as many ways as possible to be as helpful as possible to the gimp community. All of these things require money. Paying for things like the next GimpCon, and making presentations happen are some of the best ways I can come up with to help the Gimp Community. I want to do these things. If I am doing these things, then I feel TGF is being successful. However to be able to do these things we need money. The more money we have, the more successful I feel running TGF. As far as printed manuals go, I think they are important. I really like printed documentation (it is waay better than online documentation) and I think printed manuals go a long ways toward encouraging people to use (and thus donate to!) the gimp. Binary packages are in this same vein, but, I think, less important, since distros (and Tor) will prepare packages for us. -- Dan [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The Gimp Foundation
Also, I fear my first email may have been a bit to rambling to be able to actually get my point across. What I am hoping to discover by encourging this conversation is what ways people would like to help with TGF and in what ways people would like to see TGF help them. I would also like to get any questions about TGF role, my role, and anyone elses potential role answered as completely as possible. Sticky legal questions, if posed soon enough will be something I can pass onto my lawyer. I want to get people as excited as I am about the potential that TGF has to help the GIMP. -- Dan [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: [Gimp-user] The Gimp Foundation
On 13 Oct 2003 11:55:27 +0200, Sven Neumann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Daniel Rogers [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As was discussed at Gimp Con 2003 (and before, frankly) I am in the process of incorporating The GIMP Foundation as a non-profit organization devoted to supporting the gimp. Thanks a lot for organizing this. Here are some of the ideas I am currently mulling over regarding TGF: [...] This sounds a lot more like an attempt to bring WilberWorks back to life than what I was imaging from such a foundation. IMO it should be a lot less commercially oriented but maybe I am only getting a wrong impression from looking at this list. [...] Sorry if this sounds like a me too but I would like to second this. After watching your (Daniel) presentation at GimpCon2003 and the discussion that followed, I thought that the main roles of the GIMP Foundation would be: - to be a non-profit organization that can collect donations without trying to sell anything by itself; - to serve as a contact point for conferences and events interested in GIMP presentations. Selling GIMP tee-shirts, manuals, CDs and other stuff may be interesting, but I would prefer to have this done by a company that would be a separate legal entity. Otherwise, there could be some conflicts between a commercial GIMP Foundation and the companies that are already selling GIMP stuff (ftgimp, macgimp/wingimp, xdarwin and probably several others). I would like the GIMP Foundation to be seen as neutral and clearly non-commercial, so that the companies who are selling GIMP CDs could make a donation to the foundation without feeling that they are giving money to a potential competitor. -Raphaël ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] GIMP 1.3 Reference Manuals
Hi, I sent a similar mail to the gimp-developer list last week but since there was no feedback I assume that our developers are all too busy to help with the documentation. So I am trying again here... One of the goals of current GIMP development is to make the code easier to read and understand. One way to achieve this goal is to improve the source code structure, the other is documentation. Of course the two should go hand in hand and that's what is happening. The current state of documentation is online at http://developer.gimp.org/api/1.3/ As you can see there's still a lot to do here (see below for some numbers). We'd like to concentrate on documentation of the libraries for now since the core API (app) hasn't settled enough yet. If someone wants to contribute, there are several things you could work on: - Completion of the libgimp* API references This basically means adding gtk-doc style comments to undocumented functions as well as improving the introductory parts that are found in the tmpl directories. - Proof-reading the existing docs More or less the same workflow as above. Please note that the comments for the libgimp PDB wrappers are generated from the PDB documentation that is found in tools/pdbgen/pdb. - Addition of some introductory chapters This could be for example Compiling a GIMP Plug-In or Porting a GIMP Plug-In to the 2.0 API (Jeff Trefftzs expressed interest to do the latter). There is a README in the devel-docs directory that should get you started with gtk-doc and the tiny bits of DocBook XML you might need to know. If you would like to help or if you have any questions please let me and the list know about it. Sven PS: Below are some numbers on the current state of the documentation of our libraries: libgimp 77% symbol docs coverage. 365 symbols documented. 110 not documented. libgimpbase 21% symbol docs coverage. 27 symbols documented. 104 not documented. libgimpcolor 3% symbol docs coverage. 2 symbols documented. 66 not documented. libgimpmath 81% symbol docs coverage. 60 symbols documented. 14 not documented. libgimpmodule 100% symbol docs coverage. 20 symbols documented. 0 not documented. libgimpwidgets 84% symbol docs coverage. 261 symbols documented. 49 not documented. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The Gimp Foundation
Carol Spears wrote: When I looked into this sometime back, I watched the gnome foundation elections on the irc. This is probably not the best view of a foundation, however, I really wanted nothing to do with it. We don't need to structure our Foundation (or even have membership) if we don't want to. Further we can have our own rules for determining membership that may or may not have anything to do with democracy. It seems like if there is money available to aid with TheGIMP, the easier it is for the people to contact the person most involved with this area -- then the decision can be made by the person who is to do the task or what have you. I am not following what you mean here. Are you suggesting that the people most invovled in the project decide who or what gets funded? If you develop TheGIMP right now, and you get offered some money, it is difficult to give any of it back. Having a place and an easy interface to deposit money would be nice I think, and good therapy for any who received more than they gave (deep down everyone knows). Everyone knows what? Yea making it easy to provide donations would be cool. I am not certain if I am making sense (again); but no matter what is going on and all the evidence against this belief, I tend to believe more in individuals and their conscience than in organizations. People can get and install gimp on their own. Selling a distribution is sort of like preying on the ignorant. This has happened to me, and I didn't like it. I don't want to pray on the ignorant. Selling cds would be clearly marked as a fundraiser (and probably priced as such). However, is should be possible to inform people of the fact that The Gimp is free and you don't need to buy it. -- Dan ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: GIMP 1.3 Reference Manuals
Hi all, Sven Neumann wrote: libgimpcolor 3% symbol docs coverage. 2 symbols documented. 66 not documented. This looked like juicy pickings, so I've attacked this. I'm currently documenting gimpcolorspace.c, then I was planning on doing gimpbilinear.c - anyone else working on this already? libgimpmath 81% symbol docs coverage. 60 symbols documented. 14 not documented. Then I was planning on filling in the gaps here. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary, Lyon, France E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] Re: [Gimp-user] The Gimp Foundation
Hi, Daniel Rogers [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sven Neumann wrote: This sounds a lot more like an attempt to bring WilberWorks Wilber what? I plead ignorant. Oh well, one should really run one's own internet archive. The website seems bought off and of course not much is left to be found on google and friends. This is the best link I could find: http://linux.rice.edu/webmap/appdescriptions/WilberWorks.html Let's hope one of the folks involved into this can tell us more about the goals of WilberWorks and why it didn't work (that well). Perhaps there are things we can learn from it... And donations would be one of its major points. However having a reliable source of money, like manual and chachka sales can only help TGF be more helpful. Basically, _anything_ TGF does will cost money. The more money it has, the more helpful things it can do. If you put it that way (with all the other things you said in your reply) it feels a lot better already. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] Re: [Gimp-user] The Gimp Foundation
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Sven Neumann wrote: | Thanks a lot for organizing this. you're welcome. - -- Dan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/i3VQad4P1+ZAZk0RAoP7AJ9DMaylrJB3h6Snuw3O6SFEM32P0gCfYpMx A8vbP5we4CIVmcEo4YjiRUc= =D2ll -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
