Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: Improved rect select tool
Hi there, On Sun, Jan 23, 2005 at 11:06:21PM -0800, Carol Spears wrote: 1. We may have any number of selection tools. If this selection tool does not fit perfectly to somebody's working habits, then we will write two slightly different variants of this tool. (We also should have configurable tool palettes and menues if we start having large number of specialized tools.) So, please, Sven all, don't overrun somebody's suggestion unless absolutely necessary. selections can easily be saved as paths. Agreed. But it's cumbersome. The workflow would look like this: Select approximate region, convert to path, (probably give path a sensible name) use path tool to edit path (which is complicated if I want a precise rectangle), convert to selection, apply filter / whatever. Using the described rect select tool, it would work like this: Select approximate area, fine-tune (probably zooming in and out as required), ready. there is a point where people who are used to other apps would do well to familiarize themselves with the good things that TheGIMP has always been able to do. Agreed. one look at the art work that was made with gimps 1.0 and before should, in my humble opinion, cause people new to this application to say they are sorry and perhaps rethink how they work. In my opinion, this is not an argument. Just because people were able to produce good stuff with The GIMP 1.0, one cannot conclude that GIMP 1.0 was perfect. There are a lot of examples where good work is created with bad (or at least improvable) tools. 2. If Adjustable is checked, then the shape of the rectangle can be modified after it has been drawn, by moving the corners in the same way that works for the crop tool. there is nothing more adjustable than a layer that you make and use as a mask. it is easier on your computer and everything saves with less space being taken in the file. We're not talking about persistent stuff here. We're talking about a short-time selection operation. The result of the operation will be a selection. I don't want to have a layer here, I just want to select some rectangular area (precisely), then operate on it, then forget it. Bye, Tino. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] Re: Improved rect select tool
From: Carol Spears [EMAIL PROTECTED] there is nothing more adjustable than a layer that you make and use as a mask. it is easier on your computer and everything saves with less space being taken in the file. You have misunderstood what about we are writing! We are not writing about the selections (which are masks) but we are writing about the **tools** used to make the selections. Yes, GIMP art are nice, but it does not make the impossible possible. This extra tool makes the impossible possible. The new tool is needed (I have waited for 8 years!!). Regards, Juhana -- http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-graphics-dev for developers of open source graphics software ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] Re: Improved rect select tool
Hmmm.. people should start working on the tool plugin system so that some of us may have very specialized tools if we want to have them. I don't make art with GIMP and so I have not used to the work flow most artists use. I have tried to use the guides in the selection making but the guides are unconvenient to use. Juhana -- http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-graphics-dev for developers of open source graphics software ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] Re: Improved rect select tool
From: William Skaggs [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have been working on a new rectangle-select tool to meet some of the deficiencies of the existing one Thank you! 1. We may have any number of selection tools. If this selection tool does not fit perfectly to somebody's working habits, then we will write two slightly different variants of this tool. (We also should have configurable tool palettes and menues if we start having large number of specialized tools.) So, please, Sven all, don't overrun somebody's suggestion unless absolutely necessary. 2. If Adjustable is checked, then the shape of the rectangle can be modified after it has been drawn, by moving the corners in the same way that works for the crop tool. Make it also adjustable by moving the edges. Otherwise with large images, it becomes impossible to select areas precisely: in a zoomed view, one may see only the edge of the rectangle. 3. Once it is satisfactory, clicking inside the rectangle converts it into a selection. Clicking outside the rectangle cancels the tool. A while ago I proposed that the selection is created each time the grabdrag is released. When one starts re-adjusting the rectangle, the previously created selection is deleted. That means that quitting the tool can be done by switching to another tool or by applying an effect. And that one does have one-to-one match between the rect and the selection, in realtime. (One could use that kind of interactively realtime selection in future GIMP version.) Only cancel operation must be implemented. 4. If Adjustable is not checked, then the rectangle is converted to a selection as soon as the mouse button is released. (That is, it behaves like the existing rect-select.) That is bad. But also unnecessary if you implement the tool as described above. BTW, who can do selections with non-adjustable tool? In existing rect tool, it is pain to start the selection from scratch if the selection is not good in the first place. Try it also with large images, impossible. 5. If Show dialog is checked, then a dialog closely resembling the crop tool dialog is shown whenever the tool is working, allowing As said, if you want this dialog, an another version can be written for us. Please write the tool you like, and then we have to modify your tool to fit to our needs. One tool for you, another tool for us. OK. It is just one new tool to the set. You write it your own way. We must accept it because it sounds like a good tool already. Whiners can write their own tools. Remember, we accepted the existing braindead rect tool years ago. Nothing can be worse. Juhana -- http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-graphics-dev for developers of open source graphics software ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: Improved rect select tool
On Mon, Jan 24, 2005 at 08:13:27AM +0200, Juhana Sadeharju wrote: From: William Skaggs [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have been working on a new rectangle-select tool to meet some of the deficiencies of the existing one Thank you! 1. We may have any number of selection tools. If this selection tool does not fit perfectly to somebody's working habits, then we will write two slightly different variants of this tool. (We also should have configurable tool palettes and menues if we start having large number of specialized tools.) So, please, Sven all, don't overrun somebody's suggestion unless absolutely necessary. selections can easily be saved as paths. all of this can be done with layers and layer masks. there is a point where people who are used to other apps would do well to familiarize themselves with the good things that TheGIMP has always been able to do. one look at the art work that was made with gimps 1.0 and before should, in my humble opinion, cause people new to this application to say they are sorry and perhaps rethink how they work. 2. If Adjustable is checked, then the shape of the rectangle can be modified after it has been drawn, by moving the corners in the same way that works for the crop tool. there is nothing more adjustable than a layer that you make and use as a mask. it is easier on your computer and everything saves with less space being taken in the file. this selection stuff is all how other apps work. the fact that gimp does more with selections now was a war with these other applications. Make it also adjustable by moving the edges. Otherwise with large images, it becomes impossible to select areas precisely: in a zoomed view, one may see only the edge of the rectangle. once again, use the guides and make a layer to use as a mask. bill is working on gimp documentation and exif stuff and a whole list of other things as well. if really crazy abuse/use/overuse of selections is what you need for your work, perhaps photoshop still needs your money. in fact, it probably does. 3. Once it is satisfactory, clicking inside the rectangle converts it into a selection. Clicking outside the rectangle cancels the tool. that is because use of selections for this work is insane and not very well thought out. please try to do all of this logically with layers. A while ago I proposed that the selection is created each time the grabdrag is released. When one starts re-adjusting the rectangle, the previously created selection is deleted. i propose that you review the information about handling layers and layer masks. That means that quitting the tool can be done by switching to another tool or by applying an effect. And that one does have one-to-one match between the rect and the selection, in realtime. (One could use that kind of interactively realtime selection in future GIMP version.) better to work independent of tools. if you must have all this selection stuff, by all means, play with the selection to path opportunities that are already there and see if this doesnt help with most of what you need here. Only cancel operation must be implemented. 4. If Adjustable is not checked, then the rectangle is converted to a selection as soon as the mouse button is released. (That is, it behaves like the existing rect-select.) saving your selection wishes as a layer and using it as a mask should do all of this. That is bad. But also unnecessary if you implement the tool as described above. BTW, who can do selections with non-adjustable tool? In existing rect tool, it is pain to start the selection from scratch if the selection is not good in the first place. Try it also with large images, impossible. try working with the layers. to me this is all cruft being introduced for no good reason. 5. If Show dialog is checked, then a dialog closely resembling the crop tool dialog is shown whenever the tool is working, allowing As said, if you want this dialog, an another version can be written for us. Please write the tool you like, and then we have to modify your tool to fit to our needs. One tool for you, another tool for us. get cracking. i suggest calling it potatoshop. OK. It is just one new tool to the set. You write it your own way. We must accept it because it sounds like a good tool already. Whiners can write their own tools. Remember, we accepted the existing braindead rect tool years ago. Nothing can be worse. i think photoshop actually needs you to buy their products. developing gimp is not going to be fun if others realize, as i have, that this war has been won. instead of destroying gimp with cruft -- give the bad guys some money so we have someone to fight still. if you like this application, you could learn how to use it. thanks, carol ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: Improved rect select tool
you know, i was thinking about it i suggested that you call your version potatoshop. i like potatoes, so please do not do this. perhaps protowshop is better. carol ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: Improved rect select tool
Hi, On Mon, Jan 24, 2005 at 08:13:27AM +0200, Juhana Sadeharju wrote: First: I'd like to have the new tool! Make edges moveable! In my opinion it is a must. One often cannot see the corners (e.g. when zooming into an image to get a precise selection). 4. If Adjustable is not checked, then the rectangle is converted to a selection as soon as the mouse button is released. (That is, it behaves like the existing rect-select.) That is bad. But also unnecessary if you implement the tool as described above. BTW, who can do selections with non-adjustable tool? In existing rect tool, it is pain to start the selection from scratch if the selection is not good in the first place. Try it also with large images, impossible. If I want to select a precise area, I usually use guides first, then do the selection. This is very cumbersome (and you end up with lots of guides). Bye, Tino. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
