Hi Alfred,
On Wed, Jan 08, 2020 at 02:42:06PM -0500, Alfred M. Szmidt wrote:
> One cannot assume good faith from those who are clearly hostile to the
> GNU project.
I am certainly not hostile to the GNU project. I love the GNU project
and most people working on it. It is almost like a second
On 1/12/20 4:41 AM, Andreas R. wrote:
> Having to trust rms is a historical necessity and a fluke.
No, it is not. You are really just making your own history.
* Andreas R. [2020-01-12 10:42]:
> > > * The GNU Project and the free software community
> > >
> > > The GNU project stakeholders are all users of the GNU system as
> > > represented by the FSF. As such, an
> > > FSF-sponsored maintainer for the GNU system as a whole (the Chief
> > >
> > maybe my wording caused misunderstandings, but I did not mean the Social
> > Contract to be a comprehensive document that codifies our inner
> > working;
>
> If not approved by RMS, you are speaking in vain. How about you make
> your own free software project, and do it there?
As much as I
> > * The GNU Project and the free software community
> >
> > The GNU project stakeholders are all users of the GNU system as represented
> > by the FSF. As such, an
> > FSF-sponsored maintainer for the GNU system as a whole (the Chief
> > GNUisance) will ensure the GNU Project
> > adheres to
* Andreas Enge [2020-01-06 22:36]:
> Hello,
>
> On Mon, Jan 06, 2020 at 04:05:51PM +0100, Andreas R. wrote:
> > Andreas Enge, in response to the difference between a "Social contract" and
> > a
> > "Code of Conduct" writes on the 6th of November[1]:
> > "a social contract, which is a "mission
One cannot assume good faith from those who are clearly hostile to the
GNU project. You've shown over and over again, even in your last
email claiming that the FSF somehow appointed Brandon as a co-chief of
the GNU project, that you have no intention to listen to those who are
part of the
* Mark Wielaard [2020-01-07 00:06]:
> Hi,
>
> On Sat, Jan 04, 2020 at 12:19:12AM -0500, Mike Gerwitz wrote:
> > > Perhaps remedying this is something that could be added to the
> > > governance discussion - how the GNU leader is chosen, what powers the
> > > FSF is required to cede, and how to
Dear DJ Delorie,
There could be some misunderstandings of your message. You have
clarified it, thank you.
* DJ Delorie [2020-01-04 06:48]:
> > making, in my personal opinion and based on the Massachusets laws
> > where FSF was incorporated, RMS could insist on the influence or
> > policies of
Hi,
On Sat, Jan 04, 2020 at 12:19:12AM -0500, Mike Gerwitz wrote:
> > Perhaps remedying this is something that could be added to the
> > governance discussion - how the GNU leader is chosen, what powers the
> > FSF is required to cede, and how to enforce those.
>
> Discussions of how to mitigate
Hi Alfred,
On Fri, Jan 03, 2020 at 12:26:59PM -0500, Alfred M. Szmidt wrote:
> You are clearly
> uninterested in having a discussion, and this contiued spreading of
> FUD and lies is out of control on your side.
I am interested in discussing these issues since I believe they are
important for
Hello,
On Mon, Jan 06, 2020 at 04:05:51PM +0100, Andreas R. wrote:
> Andreas Enge, in response to the difference between a "Social contract" and a
> "Code of Conduct" writes on the 6th of November[1]:
> "a social contract, which is a "mission statement" and statement of the
> general principles
in support of a general document that would
"describe the structure and mission of the GNU project", even allegedly by
rms himself[2]
Since no such document exists, it would need to be agreed on by everyone who
could be loosely defined as "part of the GNU project" to serve a
Brett Gilio wrote:
>Alfred, if you really feel there is no substance at hand here, why
>not just leave the discussion?
Alfred is trying to correct the misinformation that is being spread here
as if it were unquestionable fact. This is an important thing to do so
one must hope he will
* DJ Delorie [2020-01-04 21:03]:
> Jean Louis writes:
> > Why should any policy of GNU be changed when they have been
> > functioning well for decades?
>
> This argument was used when GPLv2 was introduced, and again with GPLv3.
> Things change, we must adapt. "The old way is good enough" is
Jean Louis writes:
> Why should any policy of GNU be changed when they have been
> functioning well for decades?
This argument was used when GPLv2 was introduced, and again with GPLv3.
Things change, we must adapt. "The old way is good enough" is not a
good long-term policy.
* DJ Delorie [2020-01-04 04:56]:
> Mike Gerwitz writes:
> > The FSF does provide essential resources for the GNU Project, but it has
> > no say in how the project is governed. Those decisions must be made by
> > rms.
>
> It's important to remember that one of the "essential resources" is the
>
Hello,
"Andreas R." skribis:
> This writing, "GNU - Principles and Guidelines", is based on Andreas Elke's
> preliminary version
> (draft posted on 1 Nov 2019) of a general and concise document that states
> some guidelines ("GNU Social Contract")
Alfred, if you really feel there is no substance at hand here, why
not just leave the discussion?
That would give up the slight hope of changing someones opinion.
Giving up isn't in the nature of free software hackers. :-)
Can't we all strive for better? If we are going to make positive
> These type of hypothetical unicorn problems are just tangets, there is
> no reason to think that the FSF would create such a situation. So
> what point is there to try and sow this poisoned seed if not distrust?
This feels similar to the logic behind "you have nothing to fear if
> I find it actually bad manners that you are hypothetically giving
> readers of this mailing list an opportunity to divide FSF and GNU.
I find it disheartening that you assume that's my purpose. By exposing
the hypothetical problem, we can solve it before it becomes a real
Jean Louis writes:
> The hypothetical case you wish to present would be dividing GNU
> project and FSF, which also does not make sense.
I agree.
> Please note that RMS is founder of the FSF, and hypothetically, with
> help of few members, could also re-submit the Articles of Association
> of
On Fri, Jan 03, 2020 at 22:55:04 -0500, DJ Delorie wrote:
> Mike Gerwitz writes:
>> The FSF does provide essential resources for the GNU Project, but it has
>> no say in how the project is governed. Those decisions must be made by
>> rms.
>
> It's important to remember that one of the "essential
Mike Gerwitz writes:
> The FSF does provide essential resources for the GNU Project, but it has
> no say in how the project is governed. Those decisions must be made by
> rms.
It's important to remember that one of the "essential resources" is the
GNU trademark itself, which means that the FSF
On Fri, Jan 03, 2020 at 06:19:53 -0500, Alfred M. Szmidt wrote:
>It would indeed be good if we worked with the FSF to ratify the GNU
>Social Contract and make sure it doesn't clash with their mission.
>
> The FSF is not in a position to ratify anything for the GNU project.
I haven't
You are wrong.
No, it is you Mark who is in the wrong here. You are clearly
uninterested in having a discussion, and this contiued spreading of
FUD and lies is out of control on your side.
The FSF holds the resources for the GNU project and has oversight
responsibility over how those
On Wed, Jan 01, 2020 at 06:16:17AM +0100, Jean Louis wrote:
> * Mark Wielaard [2019-12-31 12:49]:
> > It would indeed be good if we worked with the FSF to ratify the GNU
> > Social Contract and make sure it doesn't clash with their mission. But
> > given the FSF has several other programs it
It would indeed be good if we worked with the FSF to ratify the GNU
Social Contract and make sure it doesn't clash with their mission.
The FSF is not in a position to ratify anything for the GNU project.
* Mark Wielaard [2019-12-31 12:49]:
> It would indeed be good if we worked with the FSF to ratify the GNU
> Social Contract and make sure it doesn't clash with their mission. But
> given the FSF has several other programs it runs, I think it is better
> if it is self contained. I don't see it as
Hello,
"Andreas R." skribis:
> This writing, "GNU - Principles and Guidelines", is based on Andreas Elke's
> preliminary version
> (draft posted on 1 Nov 2019) of a general and concise document that states
> some guidelines ("GNU Social Contract")
Hi Andreas,
On Mon, 2019-12-30 at 22:25 +0100, Andreas R. wrote:
> This writing, "GNU - Principles and Guidelines", is based on Andreas
> Elke's preliminary version
> (draft posted on 1 Nov 2019) of a general and concise document that
> states some guidelines ("GNU
Hi,
This writing, "GNU - Principles and Guidelines", is based on Andreas Elke's
preliminary version
(draft posted on 1 Nov 2019) of a general and concise document that states some
guidelines ("GNU Social Contract")
which came with a request for feedback.
In response to t
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