AW: Helmets / Lazer Revolution / Darth Vaders Choice of a Helmet.
Guys, after 15 years riding with different types of arai, I decided to buy something completely different. Wearing Glasses all the time, I was thinking about a more modular full facer. I tried the Schubert, the BMW, a Nolan and at last I stumbled over a Belgian Lazer. I buy it cause it looks BAD. I mean, really BAD. The GTS has some really futuristic style elements and you would not perfectly match your bike with a BMW Helmet. Besides of his "UglyDarthVader"-Look, the Lazer has some nice features: a.) A double visor, Fog resistant b.) Integrated Sun Visor c.) Filtration Mask http://www.lazer.be/access_modular.htm 300 USD with bag. DOT approval. Joerg
Re: Helmets
I would be carefull on the "any helmet sold in US" statement. Just think there are snowmobile helmets out there that are not used on the street. My .02. Grant Gall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 3 Nov 2000, Gil Hillman wrote: Is there such a thing as a Snell approved helmet that isn't DOT approved? I don't think so; I don't think the helmet can be sold as a motorcycle helmet if it isn't DOT approved. So this isn't an either-or, it's a one-or-both, and "both" surely offers a bit of extra protection. Gil, you're right, at least as far as the U.S. is concerned. Any helmet sold in the U.S. (for many years now) MUST have a DOT approval, or the seller is breaking federal law. Snell is optional. Any state with a mandatory helmet law uses the DOT standard as the measure of "acceptability" so the lack of that little decal is what gets you a ticket. Sadly, there are firms that sell DOT stickers, and there are riders who stick them on replica Nazi helmets, "puddin' bowl" replicas, and..heck, I suspect Viking hats (right Sven?). Those across the big pond(s)--can you buy a helmet outside the U.S. without a DOT sticker on it? Phil
RE: Helmets
Grant: I think if you read carefully what Phil wrote, you would agree that his "any helmet" is inside a paragraph referring to motorcycle helmets. Also, since we are referring to motorcycle helmets in the entire discussion it seems to me that the "any helmet" reference automatically includes the understanding that "any helmet" refers to any MOTORCYCLE helmet. Regards, Henry S. Winokur 94 GTS1000, AMA, MRF, MD/MSF Certified Instructor West Bethesda, MD I would be carefull on the "any helmet sold in US" statement. Just think there are snowmobile helmets out there that are not used on the street. My .02. Grant Gall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 3 Nov 2000, Gil Hillman wrote: Is there such a thing as a Snell approved helmet that isn't DOT approved? I don't think so; I don't think the helmet can be sold as a motorcycle helmet if it isn't DOT approved. So this isn't an either-or, it's a one-or-both, and "both" surely offers a bit of extra protection. Gil, you're right, at least as far as the U.S. is concerned. Any helmet sold in the U.S. (for many years now) MUST have a DOT approval, or the seller is breaking federal law. Snell is optional. Any state with a mandatory helmet law uses the DOT standard as the measure of "acceptability" so the lack of that little decal is what gets you a ticket. Sadly, there are firms that sell DOT stickers, and there are riders who stick them on replica Nazi helmets, "puddin' bowl" replicas, and..heck, I suspect Viking hats (right Sven?). Those across the big pond(s)--can you buy a helmet outside the U.S. without a DOT sticker on it? Phil
Re: Helmets, HTML, Fluff
You don't need to switch Henry, your email is nice and legible :) "Henry S. Winokur" wrote: Pegasus may be good for you, but I'm not inclined to use any email client (I've been there,done that hated it) that doesn't do what Outlook does for me (keeps my contact list, emailer, calendar, and notes) all in one place. I simply don't have time to be jumping back and forth between email, calendar, etc. Regards, Henry S. Winokur 94 GTS1000, AMA, MRF, MD/MSF Certified Instructor West Bethesda, MD
Helmets
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --=_NextPart_000_004C_01C04767.E0C84A00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Folks, As to wearing helmets, in The Netherlands helmets are a mandatoy thing = for motorcyclists. That's simple.=20 Helmets must be approved by some european standard.=20 Being a police officer myself, i know wich helmets are approved and wich = aren't. However someone wearing a non approved helmet is at least = wearing something that keeps him from becoming an organ donor.=20 I think that surgeons amongst us will agree that motorcyclists are among = teh best organ donors because they ae relatively young and in relatively = good physical shape. Us folks do more good than we thougt we were MB --=_NextPart_000_004C_01C04767.E0C84A00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN" HTMLHEAD META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR STYLE/STYLE /HEAD BODY bgColor=3D#ff DIVFONT face=3DArial size=3D2Folks,/FONT/DIV DIVnbsp;/DIV DIVFONT face=3DArial size=3D2As to wearing helmets, in The = Netherlands helmets=20 are a mandatoy thing for motorcyclists. That's simple. /FONT/DIV DIVFONT face=3DArial size=3D2Helmets must be approved by some = european standard.=20 /FONT/DIV DIVFONT face=3DArial size=3D2Being a police officer myself, i know = wich helmets=20 are approved and wich aren't. However someone wearing a non approved = helmet is=20 at least wearing something that keeps him from becoming an organ donor.=20 /FONT/DIV DIVnbsp;/DIV DIVFONT face=3DArial size=3D2I think that surgeons amongst us will = agree that=20 motorcyclists are among teh best organ donors because they ae relatively = young=20 and in relatively good physical shape./FONT/DIV DIVnbsp;/DIV DIVFONT face=3DArial size=3D2Us folks do more good than we thougt we = were/FONT/DIV DIVnbsp;/DIV DIVFONT face=3DArial size=3D2MB/FONT/DIV/BODY/HTML --=_NextPart_000_004C_01C04767.E0C84A00--
Helmets, HTML
1. There is nothing wrong with buying a Snell helmet, I have made a conscious decision to not do so, for reasons I have already expressed clearly in this forum. I am a 46 year old attorney, have been riding motorcycles since I was 9, and have been an avid and careful reader of motorcycle magazines and especially their helmet articles since about 1968. To state that a fullface DOT helmet with good styrofoam in the chin will not give you adequate protection compared to a Snell helmet is to demonstrate a lack of knowledge on the subject. 2. Please observe the tangled mess of a message that I have cut and paste below. Everyone PLEASE TURN OFF YOUR HTML FORMATTING! In Netscape this is done by going to EDITPREFERENCESMAILNEWSGROUPSFORMATTING. The top center box gives you a choice between using HTML formatting and PLAINTEXT formatting. Check the PLAINTEXT box and give the rest of us a break, please. PFONT SIZE=3D2-Original Message-/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2From: Roger Van Santen [A = HREF=3D"mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]"mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/A]/FONT= BRFONT SIZE=3D2Sent: Friday, November 03, 2000 3:57 PM/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2To: Multiple recipients of list/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2Subject: Re: Helmets/FONT /P BR PFONT SIZE=3D2Actually, I just purchased a Schuberth Concept = helmet. This is the company/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2that makes the BMW System helmet.nbsp; It is = neither DOT nor SNELL approved, but/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2I have every confidence that it will afford as much = protection as any/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2comparable helmet purchased stateside.nbsp; They = simply have chosen to stay out/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2of the US market at the present time thanks to our = litigious environment./FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2FWIW, YMMV, etc., etc., etc./FONT /P PFONT SIZE=3D2Roger/FONT /P BR PFONT SIZE=3D2-Original Message-/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] = lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt;/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2To: Multiple recipients of list = lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt;/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2Date: Friday, November 03, 00 4:18 AM/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2Subject: RE: Helmets/FONT /P BR PFONT SIZE=3D2gt;/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2gt;/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2gt;On Fri, 3 Nov 2000, Gil Hillman wrote:/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2gt;/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2gt;gt; Is there such a thing as a Snell approved = helmet that isn't DOT approved?/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2I/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2gt;gt; don't think so; I don't think the helmet = can be sold as a motorcycle/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2helmet/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2gt;gt; if it isn't DOT approved. So this isn't an = either-or, it's a one-or-both,/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2gt;gt; and quot;bothquot; surely offers a bit of = extra protection./FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2gt;/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2gt;Gil, you're right, at least as far as the U.S. = is concerned.nbsp; Any helmet/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2gt;sold in the U.S. (for many years now) MUST have = a DOT approval, or the/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2gt;seller is breaking federal law.nbsp; Snell is = optional.nbsp; Any state with a/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2gt;mandatory helmet law uses the DOT standard as = the measure of/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2gt;quot;acceptabilityquot; so the lack of that = little decal is what gets you a/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2gt;ticket.nbsp; Sadly, there are firms that sell = DOT stickers, and there are/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2gt;riders who stick them on replica Nazi helmets, = quot;puddin' bowlquot; replicas,/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2gt;and..heck, I suspect Viking hats (right = Sven?)./FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2gt;/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2gt;Those across the big pond(s)--can you buy a = helmet outside the U.S./FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2gt;without a DOT sticker on it?/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2gt;/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2gt;Phil/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2gt;/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2gt;/FONT /P BR /BODY /HTML --_=_NextPart_001_01C045D9.FEF4FEA4-- -- -- ++ +Chase Kimball ([EMAIL PROTECTED]), nom de Plum "Lord Brancaster" aka +"Hannibal" in the Quake Clan "Zero Tolerance." Columnist for +http://www.voodooextreme.com ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) + +"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the +need for illusion is deep." Saul Bellow. + +Visit my home page at http://www.aros.net/~chase to view the +virtual gallery of fantasy art of Jesse Allen, and the home site +of the Wasatch Avian Education Society. ++
RE: helmets
eye-popping-neon-racing graffiti on my head! The nice thing about neon anything is higher visibility. That's one reason I chose a helmet that had bright neon colors! HIGHER VISIBILITY. Regards, Henry S. Winokur 94 GTS1000, AMA, MRF, MD/MSF Certified Instructor West Bethesda, MD
RE: Helmets
Granted, the risk is slight, as the officer would have to closely inspect the helmet and know what to look for. In the real world, odds of this happening are slim. Cops are not stupid, generally. Around here, in Montgomery Co. MD at least, they have to have a college education. They look for one thing...the DOT sticker on the back of the helmet...though I've yet to hear of anyone in the DC area getting a ticket for wearing a non compliant helmet. I figure the cops figure that if a person is so stupid as to wear that kind of helmet they get what they deserve, eventually. Next time I talk to a cop and I know a few, from the motorcycle safety program, I'm going to ask about the situation. Regards, Henry S. Winokur 94 GTS1000, AMA, MRF, MD/MSF Certified Instructor West Bethesda, MD
RE: Helmets
Just get some small Avery circular stickers and print D.O.T. on them with your PC and put one one the outside of the helmet and one inside on the shell. Like a cop is really gonna know if its real or not :) Hugh Hugh, you need to talk to an officer in your jurisdiction. I'll go out on a limb and bet that they DO know the difference, but probably don't care. Regards, Henry S. Winokur 94 GTS1000, AMA, MRF, MD/MSF Certified Instructor West Bethesda, MD
Re: Helmets
Henry, Here in South Florida, most of em can't even spell. :) Besides I only wear Arai, my suggestion was for those that wanted to wear European lids with no D.O.T. approval. Hugh "Henry S. Winokur" wrote: Just get some small Avery circular stickers and print D.O.T. on them with your PC and put one one the outside of the helmet and one inside on the shell. Like a cop is really gonna know if its real or not :) Hugh Hugh, you need to talk to an officer in your jurisdiction. I'll go out on a limb and bet that they DO know the difference, but probably don't care. Regards, Henry S. Winokur 94 GTS1000, AMA, MRF, MD/MSF Certified Instructor West Bethesda, MD
Re: Helmets
I forgot to add that the State of Florida in a moment of infinite wisdom repealed the helmet law back in July. So now we have the Darwinian process in full effect down here :) "Henry S. Winokur" wrote: Hugh, you need to talk to an officer in your jurisdiction. I'll go out on a limb and bet that they DO know the difference, but probably don't care. Regards, Henry S. Winokur 94 GTS1000, AMA, MRF, MD/MSF Certified Instructor West Bethesda, MD
RE: Helmets, HTML
motorcycles since I was 9, and have been an avid and careful reader of motorcycle magazines and especially their helmet articles since about Chase Perhaps you've been a careful reader of bike mags, but you've apparently missed the discussion here on HTML. Some folks on this list respond through certain types of servers that for whatever reason do not allow the sending of pure text. So we get HTML whether we want to or not, and the senders cannot turn it off, even if they wanted to (and they all do). So you'll have to do like the rest of us, and that is simply put up with a rather minor inconvenience. Regards, Henry S. Winokur 94 GTS1000, AMA, MRF, MD/MSF Certified Instructor West Bethesda, MD
RE: Helmets
I forgot to add that the State of Florida in a moment of infinite wisdom repealed the helmet law back in July. So now we have the Darwinian process in full effect down here :) The only problem with the Darwinian Process, is that it is so slow. :) Regards, Henry S. Winokur 94 GTS1000, AMA, MRF, MD/MSF Certified Instructor West Bethesda, MD
Re: Helmets, HTML
I must have missed that discussion about HTML email during my recent absence. I've never heard of a server that won't allow plain text email to be sent but only HTML. I was under the impression that the format of the email was up to the client. And, from what I can see by looking at the headers of the folks sending HTML email (look for X-Mailer tag in the headers), its all coming from clients that do allow a choice of sending email HTML or text. I've recommended in the past and still do that people use Pegasus Mail which is freeware besides being the best email client on the Net. You can download it at http://www.pegasus.usa.com/ Hugh "Henry S. Winokur" wrote: motorcycles since I was 9, and have been an avid and careful reader of motorcycle magazines and especially their helmet articles since about Chase Perhaps you've been a careful reader of bike mags, but you've apparently missed the discussion here on HTML. Some folks on this list respond through certain types of servers that for whatever reason do not allow the sending of pure text. So we get HTML whether we want to or not, and the senders cannot turn it off, even if they wanted to (and they all do). So you'll have to do like the rest of us, and that is simply put up with a rather minor inconvenience. Regards, Henry S. Winokur 94 GTS1000, AMA, MRF, MD/MSF Certified Instructor West Bethesda, MD
Re: Helmets
true Henry but there are two annual "acceleration periods" in the process. 1)Bike Week 2)Biketoberfest :) Hugh "Henry S. Winokur" wrote: The only problem with the Darwinian Process, is that it is so slow. :) Regards, Henry S. Winokur 94 GTS1000, AMA, MRF, MD/MSF Certified Instructor West Bethesda, MD
RE: Helmets, HTML
I've never heard of a server that won't allow plain text email to be sent but only HTML. Jon Crisler, and others have to go thru Exchange Servers (I don't), and I think that is where the problem lies. I've recommended in the past and still do that people use Pegasus Mail which is freeware besides being the best email client on the Net. You can download it at http://www.pegasus.usa.com/ Pegasus may be good for you, but I'm not inclined to use any email client (I've been there,done that hated it) that doesn't do what Outlook does for me (keeps my contact list, emailer, calendar, and notes) all in one place. I simply don't have time to be jumping back and forth between email, calendar, etc. Regards, Henry S. Winokur 94 GTS1000, AMA, MRF, MD/MSF Certified Instructor West Bethesda, MD
Re: Helmets
The problem with the Darwin factor is that it doesn't make any difference with a helmet. Considering all those that die with one on. What do you call that? No helmet ever prevented a crash nor do any helmet manufactures claim it will save you. In fact every helmet I've had there was a disclaimer on the inside. Maybe we should call the helmet the disclaimer protector. Ken Swartz
RE: Helmets
On Fri, 3 Nov 2000, Gil Hillman wrote: Is there such a thing as a Snell approved helmet that isn't DOT approved? I don't think so; I don't think the helmet can be sold as a motorcycle helmet if it isn't DOT approved. So this isn't an either-or, it's a one-or-both, and "both" surely offers a bit of extra protection. Gil, you're right, at least as far as the U.S. is concerned. Any helmet sold in the U.S. (for many years now) MUST have a DOT approval, or the seller is breaking federal law. Snell is optional. Any state with a mandatory helmet law uses the DOT standard as the measure of "acceptability" so the lack of that little decal is what gets you a ticket. Sadly, there are firms that sell DOT stickers, and there are riders who stick them on replica Nazi helmets, "puddin' bowl" replicas, and..heck, I suspect Viking hats (right Sven?). Those across the big pond(s)--can you buy a helmet outside the U.S. without a DOT sticker on it? Phil
Re: Helmets (Snell vs. DOT vs. TUF)
This is true. In all helmet law states, DOT approval is required for sale. The only non-DOT helmets are cheapies, usually bought by people trying to skirt the law who have heads that aren't worth protecting anyway. DOT requirements are very minimal. Snell standards are pretty tough. There are significant difference between the German TUF standards and Snell and I'd probably feel okay with a TUF approval even if it didn't meet Snell. This is most commonly the case in helmets such as BMW's System helmets (not sold in the U.S. thanks to our legal system) with an opening front. Snell approves none of those helmets - I had a long discussion once with the tech guy at Shoei as to why - but many are good helmets. In essence, DOT approval doesn't offer a lot. Snell is mostly the only game in town when it comes to actual testing. When you find helmets that meet the European standards, they are probably plenty good. And the difference between a helmet and no helmet is the only one that has been statistically proven to be most effective. (Just because proof isn't documented doesn't mean there are no differences. It just gives up the opportunity to continue this discussion forever. Fun, huh?) -Jay In a message dated 11/2/00 11:08:22 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Is there such a thing as a Snell approved helmet that isn't DOT approved? I don't think so; I don't think the helmet can be sold as a motorcycle helmet if it isn't DOT approved. Orange County, California Park Ranger R-115 1993-1998
Re: Helmets
emergency room visit 1000usd cat scan of the head without contrast 1200usd cat scan of the head with contrast 1800usd stitches of the cut on your head by a plastic surgeon 2200usd (ONLY THE BEST FOR YOU) falling of the bike on your driveway without a helmet, PRICELESS Raul R Gracie 93 GTS
Re: helmets
Those across the big pond(s)--can you buy a helmet outside the U.S. without a DOT sticker on it? Well, here in Spain you can, for sure. Being able to legally use it on a motorcycle is completely different... Funny, what you can't buy is a nice, elegant full facer in one or two colors besides my trusty BMW and a couple semi-cheapies. I refuse to wear eye-popping-neon-racing graffiti on my head! This is most commonly the case in helmets such as BMW's System helmets (not sold in the U.S. thanks to our legal system) with an opening front. Snell approves none of those helmets - I had a long discussion once with the tech guy at Shoei as to why - but many are good helmets. The BMW system 4 is great - much, much better than 3. Most long distance riders and big bike commuters favor them over here, even at ridiculously high prices. I've read a comparative test in a reputable magazine and it came out tops along with an Arai model. One nice thing is I can ride with it in heavy rain at 30 or 40 mph with the visor open about 2/3 of an inch and no water will get ito my face due to its aerodynamics. Also possible to ride without glasses and the visor an inch open and not have your eyes irritated by the turbulence, or worry about bugs or other flying matter like small pebbles from a car. those of you wanting an opening-front helmet for those very slow times in the summer gridlock from work, take a look at the Nolan N100 at http://www.nolan.it/a/prod_nolan.asp?c=rf=1 . It looks even better in reality, and some colors are a nice match to the GTS.
RE: Helmets
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --_=_NextPart_001_01C045D9.FEF4FEA4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" So Roger, if your state, or a state you ride in, has a mandatory helmet law, you run a very slight chance of getting a ticket. Most states helmet laws say it must be DOT (US Department of Transportation) approved. Granted, the risk is slight, as the officer would have to closely inspect the helmet and know what to look for. In the real world, odds of this happening are slim. -Original Message- From: Roger Van Santen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, November 03, 2000 3:57 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Helmets Actually, I just purchased a Schuberth Concept helmet. This is the company that makes the BMW System helmet. It is neither DOT nor SNELL approved, but I have every confidence that it will afford as much protection as any comparable helmet purchased stateside. They simply have chosen to stay out of the US market at the present time thanks to our litigious environment. FWIW, YMMV, etc., etc., etc. Roger -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Friday, November 03, 00 4:18 AM Subject: RE: Helmets On Fri, 3 Nov 2000, Gil Hillman wrote: Is there such a thing as a Snell approved helmet that isn't DOT approved? I don't think so; I don't think the helmet can be sold as a motorcycle helmet if it isn't DOT approved. So this isn't an either-or, it's a one-or-both, and "both" surely offers a bit of extra protection. Gil, you're right, at least as far as the U.S. is concerned. Any helmet sold in the U.S. (for many years now) MUST have a DOT approval, or the seller is breaking federal law. Snell is optional. Any state with a mandatory helmet law uses the DOT standard as the measure of "acceptability" so the lack of that little decal is what gets you a ticket. Sadly, there are firms that sell DOT stickers, and there are riders who stick them on replica Nazi helmets, "puddin' bowl" replicas, and..heck, I suspect Viking hats (right Sven?). Those across the big pond(s)--can you buy a helmet outside the U.S. without a DOT sticker on it? Phil --_=_NextPart_001_01C045D9.FEF4FEA4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN" HTML HEAD META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1" META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2650.12" TITLERE: Helmets/TITLE /HEAD BODY PFONT SIZE=3D2So Roger, if your state, or a state you ride in, has = a mandatory helmet law, you run a very slight chance of getting a = ticket.nbsp; Most states helmet laws say it must be DOT (US Department = of Transportation) approved./FONT/P PFONT SIZE=3D2nbsp;Granted, the risk is slight, as the officer = would have to closely inspect the helmet and know what to look = for.nbsp; In the real world, odds of this happening are = slim./FONT/P PFONT SIZE=3D2-Original Message-/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2From: Roger Van Santen [A = HREF=3D"mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]"mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/A]/FONT= BRFONT SIZE=3D2Sent: Friday, November 03, 2000 3:57 PM/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2To: Multiple recipients of list/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2Subject: Re: Helmets/FONT /P BR PFONT SIZE=3D2Actually, I just purchased a Schuberth Concept = helmet. This is the company/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2that makes the BMW System helmet.nbsp; It is = neither DOT nor SNELL approved, but/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2I have every confidence that it will afford as much = protection as any/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2comparable helmet purchased stateside.nbsp; They = simply have chosen to stay out/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2of the US market at the present time thanks to our = litigious environment./FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2FWIW, YMMV, etc., etc., etc./FONT /P PFONT SIZE=3D2Roger/FONT /P BR PFONT SIZE=3D2-Original Message-/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] = lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt;/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2To: Multiple recipients of list = lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt;/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2Date: Friday, November 03, 00 4:18 AM/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2Subject: RE: Helmets/FONT /P BR PFONT SIZE=3D2gt;/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2gt;/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2gt;On Fri, 3 Nov 2000, Gil Hillman wrote:/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2gt;/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2gt;gt; Is there such a thing as a Snell approved = helmet that isn't DOT approved?/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2I/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2gt;gt; don't think so; I don't think the helmet = can be sold as a motorcycle/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2helmet/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2gt;gt; if it isn't DOT approved. So this isn't an = either-or, it's a one-or-both,/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2gt;gt; an
Re: Helmets
Just get some small Avery circular stickers and print D.O.T. on them with your PC and put one one the outside of the helmet and one inside on the shell. Like a cop is really gonna know if its real or not :) Hugh "Crisler, Jon" wrote: So Roger, if your state, or a state you ride in, has a mandatory helmet law, you run a very slight chance of getting a ticket. Most states helmet laws say it must be DOT (US Department of Transportation) approved. Granted, the risk is slight, as the officer would have to closely inspect the helmet and know what to look for. In the real world, odds of this happening are slim. snipped
Re: Helmets
All, I must say I do agree with this author. As a dutch cop, I've seen my share of road accidents and I'm sure I'd have seen an lot more dead people if the government didn't make them wear helmets. MB - Original Message - From: k9kiko [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2000 6:48 AM Subject: Helmets GTS Fans, Ok, here we go... The Gts 1000 is a marvel in technology right... The world is an never ending hoard for technology. We learn from our mistakes and improve upon them. Way back when, the helmet evolved... Riders who enjoy knelling in the turns would probably agree , the helmet is a BRAIN guard... Don't think to many of us would try some of our trick riding knowing we don't have protection Those who wish to ride without a helmet, more power to you... Try to evolve with the rest of us and save that BRAIN As a trooper, I've seen some nasty wrecks, both four wheels and two wheels. A simple "dump" is magnified by the riders quote un quote, "I'm not conforming... I have a right to do what I want...and I'm not wearing a Fu@*ing helmet. O.K. Heaven can wait. I'll just hang around here and enjoy my ride with an added safety equipment named the "Skull Cap". For those who don't wear a helmet... Have you heard of a condom, great protection... OH, don't wanna wear one.. O.K. I'll Pass, HEAVEN CAN WAIT...
Re: Helmets are for Intelligent Riders
The government does good things and bad things. Requiring that everyone have special insurance for any activity that they do, makes no sense. It makes a lot of sense if you are an insurance company and you have the lobbying power to get politicians to see things your way! They very much know that riders are no greater a risk so they will be glad to have us legislatively be forced to pay insurance premiums. It all makes a great deal of economic sensefor them. Also, found out today that Blue Cross Blue Shield is THE ONLY insurance company in my area that "IS ALLOWED BY LAW" to cover our company's and other companies I suspect medical needs. How's that for monopoly! I hate to admit it but Hillary's sounding better all of a sudden, so as to put a leash on these thieves. George believes in absolute self-determination and unlimited independence but always with personal responsibility. PS Still waiting on my BT57 after 10 days, you can tell it's beginning to piss me off. _ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
Re: Helmets are for Intelligent Riders
Just think of it as the gene pool taking care of itself :) I actually get a good laugh when I hear a story like this. On 12 Jun 2000, at 21:41, SHAWN PEARSALL wrote: I know I'm opening up a Pandora's box here folks...fact of the matter is I don't give crap after my technician had the following experience in Chicago on Friday. He's sitting at a stop light..a MORON pulls up next to his car...sitting on a Kaw 1100 or something like that. Illinois happens to be one of these...no helmet required states Light turns green...he pulls away wide open...power shifts into second...pops a wheeling into secondright back on top of himself...right in front of my tech. This jerk was wearing sneakers and a pair of jeans...that's it folksJim rode by in his car...didn't bother stopping (lots of folks around) cause there wasn't much left of the guys back or head I'm all in favor of Helmetless riders...so long as they agree to sign away their rights to state provided healthcare. Than way when they pull stupid stunts like this we don't support the vegetative state. I'm bothered by the image...my tech has lost sleep over this guys stupidity. My soapboxranting for a reason...just understand my concerns...but you're free to disagree Shawn P
RE: Helmets are for Intelligent Riders
I disagree and side with the AMA in saying everyone should be allowed to be stupid if they are only injuring themselves. I'm throwing in with Louis on this one. The insurance thing is a slippery slope down which we do not want to Me too. Motorcyclists should no more be expected to carry additional insurance than anyone else, as the evidence indicates we are no more or less likely to have medical insurance than anyone else. Also, depending on whose statistics you read/believe riders may actually spend somewhat less time in hospitals/other care facilities than other classes of motor-injured individuals. The government does good things and bad things. Requiring that everyone have special insurance for any activity that they do, makes no sense. The only way to avoid all risk is to be dead, and right now I prefer life, even with its risks. Regards, Henry S. Winokur 94 GTS1000, AMA, MRF, MD/MSF Certified Instructor West Bethesda, MD
Re: Helmets are for Intelligent Riders
re-read what you quoted. How about this: a helmet may save as many stupid riders (squid boy flip his GS1100) from dying as they do save inteligent riders from becoming vegetables. This was my interpretation anyway. Louis What kind of logic is that, Kev? So all those riders saved from becoming veggies by their helmets (I count me as one of them) are not worth saving because of the burdon of all those that are consequently saved from death but become veggies??? .. so it follows that they may save as many vegetables from dying as they save riders from becoming vegetables...
RE: Helmets are for Intelligent Riders
--- "Loss, Joe" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What kind of logic is that, Kev? So all those riders saved from becoming veggies by their helmets (I count me as one of them) are not worth saving because of the burdon of all those that are consequently saved from death but become veggies??? Joe. From the context of the burden on society, not an individual's worth. I'm not saying you are worth less--just the same--I'm counting all people as equally valuable (even though GTS rider's are inherently more intelligent, and thus worth more intrinsically, yada, yada). I'm saying the NUMBERS seem to cancel out! My premise is that EVERYONE is worth saving, and worth being saved by their choice of appropriate gear. For me, this includes a helmet, and it did save me once. I'm just trying to understand the data that does not seem to clearly indicate helmets are better all the time no matter what, which was my initial intuition before I started paying attention to what little info there is. FL Kev __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! http://photos.yahoo.com
RE: Helmets are for Intelligent Riders
The idea of insurance is that we all put in our money and then we all get to do more or less what we want, knowing that if we have accidents our medical bills are covered. It doesn't mean that we all have to do the same things. If we start trying to pick and choose who is covered, the system won't work. I'm willing to cover someone who does rock climbing, because they cover me while I ride my bike. Is rock climbing stupid risk-taking? It seems so to me, but that's the rock climber's business. I do wear a helmet, and I think it's dumb not to, and I even favor laws that require kids to wear them (against peer pressure). But the reason isn't financial, it's because I hate to see people leave their brains on the road. Gil H.
Re: Helmets are for Intelligent Riders
I am pro-choice on this issue. I believe we should have the choice to wear a helmet or not. I do think that it is wise to have minors be forced into wearing helmets. I hate being legislated to be safe. I do think that the insurance writers are trying to get the laws written to make accidents more survivable. I believe the emphasis should be on accident avoidance, rather than survivability. Louis P.S. I also believe strongly against driving after drinking/drug use. If a person is found to be DUI they should loose their lisence, right then, right there. Taxi cab home, tow the vehicle. No tolerance. Just my opinion. P.P.S. Why is it that we are required to wear a helmet when we ride motorcycles and bicycles, but not if we ride a moped? Why when we ride an ATV, mountain bike, or dirt bike; but not when someone rides a horse? Gil Hillman wrote: The idea of insurance is that we all put in our money and then we all get to do more or less what we want, knowing that if we have accidents our medical bills are covered. It doesn't mean that we all have to do the same things. If we start trying to pick and choose who is covered, the system won't work. I'm willing to cover someone who does rock climbing, because they cover me while I ride my bike. Is rock climbing stupid risk-taking? It seems so to me, but that's the rock climber's business. I do wear a helmet, and I think it's dumb not to, and I even favor laws that require kids to wear them (against peer pressure). But the reason isn't financial, it's because I hate to see people leave their brains on the road. Gil H.
Re: Helmets are for Intelligent Riders
I disagree and side with the AMA in saying everyone should be allowed to be stupid if they are only injuring themselves. I do not believe that the rider you speak of cost more to the public than any car accident. I don't believe that we should have special insurance requirements to ride a motorcycle. We all know that the insurance companies are righting the laws, how much more does it take to say we should be forced to carry special insurance to ride a motorcycle even if we are riding a Goldwing and wearing race leathers?? How about another option? Force manufactures to be accountable for their actions, like making it easy to purchase a motorcycle -say a Hayabusa- that reaches 188 mph with no modifications. I don't like the implications of any of these laws. I have serious concerns about the USA becoming over legislated. Pardon my terms, but fuck the government. I am not saying I have the answers to these concerns, and I definitely am not the eloquent speaker required to voice the concerns, but something needs to be done. Much like your views that the government should protect the forests from the US citizens who ride OHV's I also disagree with your views that the US citizens should be protected from the squid/gangster who chooses to be reckless whether they wear a helmet or not (since they can still be killed with or without a helmet.) Sorry for the Rant, Louis SHAWN PEARSALL wrote: I know I'm opening up a Pandora's box here folks...fact of the matter is I don't give crap after my technician had the following experience in Chicago on Friday. He's sitting at a stop light..a MORON pulls up next to his car...sitting on a Kaw 1100 or something like that. Illinois happens to be one of these...no helmet required states Light turns green...he pulls away wide open...power shifts into second...pops a wheeling into secondright back on top of himself...right in front of my tech. This jerk was wearing sneakers and a pair of jeans...that's it folksJim rode by in his car...didn't bother stopping (lots of folks around) cause there wasn't much left of the guys back or head I'm all in favor of Helmetless riders...so long as they agree to sign away their rights to state provided healthcare. Than way when they pull stupid stunts like this we don't support the vegetative state. I'm bothered by the image...my tech has lost sleep over this guys stupidity. My soapboxranting for a reason...just understand my concerns...but you're free to disagree Shawn P
