Then of course, there's this one.
http://www.kateemersonhistoricals.com/browne,mabel(resized).jpg
I guess we should be looking in the 1560s.
MaggiRos
On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 4:30 PM, Kimiko Small sstormwa...@yahoo.com wrote:
Great call for knowing which Henri image it really was based on.
...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of otsisto
Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 4:24 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Primary source for Elizabethan pillbox hats sought
I had asked Lynn McMasters and she says that it is based off an Italian
portrait.
http
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Primary source for Elizabethan pillbox hats sought
I had asked Lynn McMasters and she says that it is based off an Italian
portrait.
http://lynnmcmasters.com/LadyM.html
in color and a wee bit larger.
http://tinyurl.com/yt6hg9
Now it could be something like this
http
On Jul 5, 2009, at 12:48 PM, Maggie wrote:
Page 9 shows something the author actually calls a pill box,
Perhaps Wilcox is the source of that misnomer.
and gives it as
Venetian about 1500. We are all aware, right, that this book is not
proper
documentation, being nothing but re-drawings
I know that image... it is Henri III in a color cartoon of a tapestry by
Antoine Caron, c.1580. The roll shown in the drawing is actually Henri's hair,
from what I can tell. It is a black hat matched with his black hair, so maybe
that's where the confusion comes in. And he is wearing a ruff,
Thank you for the apology Chimene.
Kimiko
--- On Sat, 7/4/09, Patricia Dunham chim...@ravensgard.org wrote:
From: Patricia Dunham chim...@ravensgard.org
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Primary source for Elizabethan pillbox hats sought
To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com
Date: Saturday, July
On Jul 5, 2009, at 6:14 PM, Kimiko Small wrote:
I know that image... it is Henri III in a color cartoon of a
tapestry by Antoine Caron, c.1580. The roll shown in the drawing is
actually Henri's hair, from what I can tell. It is a black hat
matched with his black hair, so maybe that's
Great call for knowing which Henri image it really was based on.
Kimiko
Good call on recognizing Henri III, but I wonder whether
Wilcox wasn't working from this
http://www.culture.gouv.fr/Wave/image/joconde/0002/m503604_87ee1701_p.jpg
which the Louvre attributes to Francois Quesnel,
Kimiko, I'm very very sorry that you perceived my response as being
jumped on, it certainly, absolutely wasn't meant personally. I
apologize for my clumsy writing. Yours just happened to be the post
that brought the subject up again, so it's the one I responded to...
I probably should have
I guess my husband and I are just stuffy, but we do get tired of people (in
general, not you specifically) trying to justify all sorts of modern things
as having period antecedents, so why not use the modern thing. This
Pillbox terminology thing just pushed all our buttons in that area, I
So I'll go away and lurk again, because I can't seem to talk
tactfully enough not to cause upsets, no matter how hard I try. It's
always happening, has done forever, it's me and not anyone else.
chimene
I think it's called email - We are such visual folks, if we can't see the face
body
I had asked Lynn McMasters and she says that it is based off an Italian
portrait.
http://lynnmcmasters.com/LadyM.html
in color and a wee bit larger.
http://tinyurl.com/yt6hg9
Now it could be something like this
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Angelo_Bronzino_002.jpg
with a caul but it is
http://s56.photobucket.com/albums/g173/sstormwatch/
First two images
Kimiko
--- On Fri, 7/3/09, Susan Farmer sfar...@goldsword.com wrote:
Kimiko, can you post a link to the album itself -- that
info is on the album page
thanks!
jerusha
-
Susan Farmer
Oh. We had sort of managed to forget this thread, and here it is
again. Umm... don't mean to be picky, but... this pillbox thing is
driving us CRAZY!
This discussion has been nagging at us (my husband and I) since it
started. In all the pictures that folks have presented for evidence,
It's called a delete button. If you don't like a thread, delete it before you
read it and move on. No reason to be snippy with what people are offering to
questions, especially as I didn't even participate with the original
conversation, offered something that in my own words *might* be a
If people want to call these amorphous blobbly things pillbox hats, fine;
but it's driving us crazy, G.
What part of it is driving you crazy - people calling this as-yet-nameless
thing by a name they recognize, or the fact that you can't find the example
you first saw? I do think that various
I can see how in these two pictures they might be mistaken as a pillbox but
they appear to be cauls.
The lady in the first photo to the left is not a pillbox (I have heard some
refer to the small soft crown hat as an Italian bonnet) but I believe that
the original poster was thinking of that style
I know its been awhile since the question was originally asked. But as I was
going through images in my books for a different project, I came across these
two images that *might* show examples of a pillbox type hat.
The images are large to better see details.
On Jun 27, 2009, at 1:36 AM, Sharon Collier wrote:
People have told me these are a type of French hood, but the effigy
photos
I've looked at all cover the ears, which these don't seem to do.
None of these are French hoods. They're not the right shape, and
French hoods have a narrow
Quoting Melanie Schuessler mela...@faucet.net:
to support it in that shape. If a caul were worn over coiled braids as
shown in this image, it would take the standing shape.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3289/2492974905_5baa3f7fe2_o.jpg
ROTFLOL! I love this picture!
jerusha
-
Susan
Quoting Melanie Schuessler mela...@faucet.net:
:) Try to ignore the modern interpolation in the background!
oh, but that makes it fun! :-D It's perfect for the book. There's
about 3 or 4 different versions of that painting by several different
painters, too.
Susan
-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Melanie Schuessler
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 8:18 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Primary source for Elizabethan pillbox hats sought
On Jun 27, 2009, at 1:36 AM, Sharon Collier wrote:
People have told me these are a type of French hood
On Jun 27, 2009, at 4:24 PM, Sharon Collier wrote:
Thank you! When you say you use the cap construction, is the crown
part
larger than the band in circumference or the same? Your picture is
exactly
what I want to do, but I can't tell construction details from the
photo.
The crown is a
I'm trying to find a portrait of an Elizabethan or Italian lady wearing what
we'd call a pillbox hat. There's one that's OK in QEWU of the Countess of
Kildare but I know I've seen much better ones showing lots of beads pearls,
and in color. Any leads?
Julie in Ramona
There's a color picture of Elizabeth Fitzgerald, Countess of Kildare, here:
http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/FITZGERALD1.htm
Go about 3/4 down the page for the thumbnail. It can be enlarged.
-Helen/Aidan
.
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Oops. Make that the Countess of Lincoln; her mother's the Kildare.
Anyway, the portrait is dated c 1575, by anonymous, and in the collection of
the National Gallery of Ireland.
-Helen/Aidan
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Of Helen Pinto
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 12:44 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Primary source for Elizabethan pillbox hats sought
There's a color picture of Elizabeth Fitzgerald, Countess of Kildare, here:
http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/FITZGERALD1.htm
Go about 3/4 down the page
The thing that struck me about this portrait is that it is the first one I've
ever seen that didn't look like some kind of padded roll or twisted/braided
arrangement. It has an edge and structure to it, which is even more obvious
when you look at the black white photo I saw first, here:
On Jun 26, 2009, at 6:23 PM, Helen Pinto wrote:
The thing that struck me about this portrait is that it is the
first one I've ever seen that didn't look like some kind of padded
roll or twisted/braided arrangement. It has an edge and structure
to it,
Yes. See also:
Quoting Melanie Schuessler mela...@faucet.net:
On Jun 26, 2009, at 6:23 PM, Helen Pinto wrote:
The thing that struck me about this portrait is that it is the
first one I've ever seen that didn't look like some kind of padded
roll or twisted/braided arrangement. It has an edge and
On Jun 26, 2009, at 7:02 PM, Susan Farmer wrote:
Melanie, could you post the titles/artists of those paintings? We
might be able to find some of them in our print resources!
They are from Dress in the Age of Elizabeth I by Jane Ashelford.
They're both from 1567 and are identified by
I think it is a hat that is angled so that it looks like a pillbox.
http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/CountessKildare.jpg
http://thepeerage.com/028841_001.jpg
I will say that it looks like what some refer to as the Italian balzo.
-Original Message-
The thing that struck me about this
These are questionable but...
Miniature of Elizabeth I, c. 1560-5.
Attr. to Levina Teerlinc.
http://www.luminarium.org/renlit/elizteerlinc3.jpg
Queen Elizabeth, c.1565.
Artist Unknown.
Private Collection.
http://www.luminarium.org/renlit/elizagold.jpg
Queen Elizabeth I, c. 1565-1570.
Artist
Perhaps you could ask Lynn McMasters for her sources.
http://lynnmcmasters.com/
Sixth row, first pattern. Click on it to site.
Under Photo by Me there is a comment address.
De
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more than a pillbox hat would suggest.
-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of otsisto
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 6:30 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Primary source for Elizabethan pillbox hats sought
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