WorldCon! I might be there g and if I'm not, I'd love to see it
anyway.
Thank you for sharing your photographs with us!
Suzanne
On Jul 9, 2009, at 10:59 PM, h-costume-requ...@indra.com wrote:
Our next trip will hopefully be to Pennsic or World Con to
photograph costumes. We are trying to
Wow! When you said they aren't cheap, I had no idea you meant they
cost a fortune! They look great, but way out of my price range which
would be less than a tenth of that. I'd have to teach for the next 40
years and I'm sure I won't be alive that long. Thanks for the info
though.
Sylrog
Yes, that is quite obvious. However, as a business owner you might consider
that the people on this list are your target consumers. It is a well known fact
that consumers often purchase where they feel they are treated respectfully. I
know I have switched dry cleaners not because of how my
In a message dated 10/4/2007 10:03:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
So it sounds like I'm ok, since I work for an educational institution,
huh?
Sylrog
Sylvia,
There are ready-made sets available. They aren't cheap, but they save you
all the trouble. Check out
Look, I don't live for the approval of email lists, OK? I
coule care less if people think I'm nicey-nice.
Fran
I don't think anyone was talking about approval or being thought of as
nicey-nice. Manners would have been appreciated, though. I am going to
take your own advice and delete future
Beteena Paradise wrote:
Yes, that is quite obvious. However, as a business owner you might
consider that the people on this list are your target consumers. It is
a well known fact that consumers often purchase where they feel they
are treated respectfully. I know I have switched dry
I don't think anyone was talking about approval or being thought of as
nicey-nice. Manners would have been appreciated, though. I am going to
take your own advice and delete future messages from Lavolta Press.
Sadly, I'm sure I will miss good content on occasion, but consistently
abrasive,
Fourth, I've run this business profitably for 14 years. While this is
not the first time someone has told me that if I don't change my
opinions about copyright, etc.,
Fran, I don't think anyone asked you to change your opinions, just to
consider other people's feelings in your responses.
Fran -
I am sure you write very knowledgable books. It is obvious from your posts
that you are an expert at everything you undertake. I am familiar with you
from several costume related groups and I'm afraid I must say your expert
attitude is indeed a turn-off. You publish books
Can’t you guys just let a flame war die—-instead of inventing statements
I never made, and lobbing repeated personal insults, and then make me
run around publicly denying them?
I’ve worked in publishing for 24 years, and I have several thousand
books in my personal library. I own every
Can’t you guys just let a flame war die—-instead of inventing statements I
never made, and lobbing repeated personal insults, and then make me run
around publicly denying them?
_make me_ ??!?? My kids are 13 and 15 and they quit saying he made me
about 5 years ago. How old are you?
Can we all just pull up our big girl pants and move on?
Patty
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Land of Oz
Sent: Fri 10/5/2007 10:25 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume photos
Can't you guys just let a flame war die--instead
Well, if you've been on that list any length of time, you'll probably have
noticed that Fran *is* harsh. Personnally, I just delete her emails.
- Original Message -
From: Sylvia Rognstad [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I agree. Can we not try to insult one another and start flame wars?
Sylrob
Fran quoted me thus:
Copyright law focuses on publishing
... cutting off my sentence midstream. Then she added:
Actually, copyright literally covers making copies, and does
not only apply to distribution or sale of them.
However, if Fran had included the rest of my sentence, it would have
Robin Netherton wrote:
Certainly, copying a whole book is a violation. But I've occasionally
resorted to Xeroxing books that are technically in copyright, when
they're out of print or otherwise unavailable and I need to refer to
them longer than ILL will let me. In the one chance in a
Fran quoted me:
Certainly, copying a whole book is a violation. But I've occasionally
resorted to Xeroxing books that are technically in copyright, when
they're out of print or otherwise unavailable and I need to refer to
them longer than ILL will let me. In the one chance in a million that
Robin Netherton wrote:
Closer to the point here: I use slides of artwork in my lectures, as
many as 100 in a single lecture. Some come from books. Some come from
the artwork itself; of the latter, some of the photos were taken
under explicit agreements with the owning libraries/museums
So it sounds like I'm ok, since I work for an educational institution,
huh?
Sylrog
On Oct 3, 2007, at 11:14 PM, Lavolta Press wrote:
Likewise, educational use legally applies to education that takes
place within educational institutions, and not to an individual
reading any book he or she
Thank you all in bringing some clarification to this murky issue.
Patty
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robin Netherton
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 2:11 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: RE: [h-cost] costume photos
Fran quoted me
2:36 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume photos
Robin Netherton wrote:
Certainly, copying a whole book is a violation. But I've occasionally
resorted to Xeroxing books that are technically in copyright, when
they're out of print or otherwise unavailable and I need
Robin wrote:
Copying pages or chunks here and there is something that happens
every day in every university library and Kinko's.
and Fran replied
Ah: So since every crime and violation of law happens every day,
somewhere, itÆs OK for you to commit any of them?
I don't know what Kinko's
Lavolta Press wrote:
Robin Netherton wrote:
Copying pages or chunks here and there is something that happens
every day in every university library and Kinko's.
Ah: So since every crime and violation of law happens every day,
somewhere, it’s OK for you to commit any of them?
And we're
.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Robin Netherton
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 9:15 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: RE: [h-cost] costume photos
But I'm not publishing the photos I copy. You keep using the word
publish.
I was speaking
From Kate:
Robin wrote:
Copying pages or chunks here and there is something that
happens every day in every university library and Kinko's.
and Fran replied
Ah: So since every crime and violation of law happens every
day somewhere, it's OK for you to commit any of them?
Kate adds:
I
Ah: So you think anything you wish to do and that benefits you is
ethical as long as you don’t get caught?
Anyone who could take my extremely specific statement
above and make the subsequent sweeping (and very much incorrect)
inference is not worth engaging in conversation.
Fair use, people. Fair use.
http://www.utsystem.edu/OGC/IntellectualProperty/copypol2.htm#test
The general counsel of a major university system, writing in plain
English for folks who aren't lawyers. It's directed at the faculty in
his system.
Of course, if you do want a more generic (and
I think everyone gets your point. Too bad the point couldn't have been made in
a manner which was a bit less off-putting.
Lavolta Press [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The problem is that many people want to take _one_ criteria, such as
I'm not making any money from it or I work for an
Actually, instead of posting on a costuming list, what I'd recommend you
to do is this:
Go to the head of your department. Ask, What are the departmental
and/or university copyright guidelines for my use of this kind of
material, in this manner, in my lectures? Please give me a copy of
No library determines US copyright law. What you are describing is
merely the policy of your particular library.
Fran
I don't know what Kinko's is, but in a university library copying of a section
of a book (1 chapter or 5%) for private study is perfectly legal.
Kate Bunting
Cataloguing
On Oct 4, 2007, at 12:02 PM, Lavolta Press wrote:
Fair use, people. Fair use.
http://www.utsystem.edu/OGC/IntellectualProperty/copypol2.htm#test
The general counsel of a major university system, writing in plain
English for folks who aren't lawyers. It's directed at the faculty
in his
Anne Baumgartner
scholar gypsy and amateur costumer
p.s. Office Max obliged both times
-Original Message-
From: Robin Netherton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Oct 4, 2007 2:43 PM
To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re:[ h-cost] Costume photos
From Kate:
Robin wrote
Look, I don't live for the approval of email lists, OK? I coule care
less if people think I'm nicey-nice.
Fran
Beteena Paradise wrote:
I think everyone gets your point. Too bad the point couldn't have been made in
a manner which was a bit less off-putting.
Sharon Collier wrote:
What about using designs that are hundreds of years old, but are in a new
publication. I teach a blackwork class to 4-5 graders (no fee, just part of
the Fines Arts Block at my son's school)and copy images for them to use on
their samplers, as it is easier than tracing
NO, not necessarily. It is NOT legal to make any use of material you
want just because you work for an educational institution. You have to
meet a group of fair use factors, not just one of them. See my previous
message, mentioning the factors of quantity of material used from one
work or by
And yet you argue against generalizations with more generalizations.
OK. Here I am with Richard Stim's _Getting Permission: How to License
Clear Copyrighted Materials Online Off, which I strongly recommend,
along with Stephem Fishman's _The Copyright Handbook. And dutifully
On Oct 4, 2007, at 1:31 PM, Lavolta Press wrote:
FACTOR 4: If this kind of use were widespread, what effect would
it have on the market for the original or for permissions?
It can have a great deal of effect. Bear in mind that the
copyright owner has a much better grasp of the effect on
I'm sorry, but the UT test is not the only available information on
copyright. I am not obligated to consider it so. Why do you not
instead read circular 29, or Richard Stim's _Getting Permission_?
Fran
Andrew T Trembley wrote:
On Oct 4, 2007, at 1:31 PM, Lavolta Press wrote:
FACTOR 4:
Because I brought the analysis to the table, I said that it was the
foundation of my example, and you're taking the lazy way out by not
arguing on the points and positions.
Nope. It's quite as reasonable for me to run you around and waste your
time--or rather, act as an e-list
For F---'s sake, can't you take this to email? Or just let it go already? This
is really getting ridiculous. And please do not tell me to create a filter
because, if I am not mistaken, the email group is called Historic Costume not
My copyright book is bigger than your copyright book or I need
If you want the discussion to end, don't post on it.
Fran
Beteena Paradise wrote:
For F---'s sake, can't you take this to email? Or just let it go already? This is really getting ridiculous.
And please do not tell me to create a filter because, if I am not mistaken, the email group is called
On Oct 4, 2007, at 4:06 PM, Lavolta Press wrote:
Because I brought the analysis to the table, I said that it was
the foundation of my example, and you're taking the lazy way out
by not arguing on the points and positions.
Nope. It's quite as reasonable for me to run you around and waste
Regardless, someone who plays a game where they insist _they_ are
setting all the rules for a public discussion, and offers no
contribution except references to a website they did not write, and then
insists that a specific person who does not write essays on the subject
at their command using
Lavolta Press wrote:
As for pictures, not only are they usually complete in themselves, bear
in mind that under US law (I understand that the laws of some foreign
countries are different, but do not know the details for each country)
photographs of paintings and other works of art have their
Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume photos
Sharon Collier wrote:
What about using designs that are hundreds of years old, but are in a
new
publication. I teach a blackwork class to 4-5 graders (no fee, just
part of the Fines Arts Block at my son's school)and copy images for
them to use
Thanks! I never thought of Dover.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Catherine Olanich Raymond
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 7:02 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume photos
On Thursday 04 October 2007, Sharon Collier
On Oct 4, 2007, at 12:09 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
But you'll have a very hard time getting ANY published material
copied at Kinko's. Ten years or so ago they were the subject of a
big copyright-violation suit because they were helping/encouraging
faculty to make their own textbooks
Lavolta Press wrote:
So, my first assignment for YOU is for YOU to go buy Richard Stim's
_Getting Permissions: How to License Clear Copyrighted Materials
Online Off._ It's readily available on the Nolo Press website, on
Amazon.com, and probably in libraries. It contains an extensive
It depends on how historically accurate you want the images to be, but Dover
Books have several books of costume images that come with cds containing all of
the images in several different formats. The books have Tom Tierney and Braun
Schneider illustrations.
This shows a few:
Download pics from the web, put them into your computer picture file and
make your own Powerpoint presentation. Works beautifully--- and you don't
have to break the binding of the books.
Monica
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Sylvia Rognstad
Good idea, but I'd really like mostly primary sources. I'll check out
Dover though. Thanx.
Sylrog
On Oct 3, 2007, at 2:16 AM, Beteena Paradise wrote:
It depends on how historically accurate you want the images to be, but
Dover Books have several books of costume images that come with cds
Yes, but then I have to search all over the web to find what I want.
Do you know one or two good online sources? I'm talking history from
ancient Mesopotamia up to the present.
Sylrog
On Oct 3, 2007, at 8:17 AM, monica spence wrote:
Download pics from the web, put them into your computer
: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 10:49 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume photos
Yes, but then I have to search all over the web to find what I want.
Do you know one or two good online sources? I'm talking history from
ancient Mesopotamia up to the present.
Sylrog
On Oct 3
: [h-cost] costume photos
Good idea, but I'd really like mostly primary sources. I'll check out
Dover though. Thanx.
Sylrog
On Oct 3, 2007, at 2:16 AM, Beteena Paradise wrote:
It depends on how historically accurate you want the images to be, but
Dover Books have several books of costume
know if there are any
short-cuts. Do
one a week and you'll be fine.
Monica
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Sylvia Rognstad
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 10:49 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume photos
Yes
Sylvia Rognstad wrote:
Do any of you costume instructors know of a source for costume/fashion
history cds? I've been trying to take photos out of books but either I
can't keep the book flat or I can't keep the camera steady enough so the
pictures come out decently.
Use a scanner. It's
Be sure you make sure that the pics are not under copywrite, though - or
get permission first.
Patty
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of monica spence
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 10:18 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: RE: [h-cost
On Oct 3, 2007, at 10:52 AM, Rickard, Patty wrote:
Be sure you make sure that the pics are not under copywrite, though
- or
get permission first.
Copywriting is what a copywriter does.
Copyright is an intellectual property. Simply put, it's the right to
control reproduction and use of a
I have a scanner but it only works with my old computer and to transfer
images to my laptop or burn cds doesn't work. Why I hadn't thought of
that at this point, beats me. Guess I just need to buy a new scanner.
Thanks for bringing that up, although I do recall when I used to use
the
This DVD:
http://www.digitale-bibliothek.de/scripts/ts.dll?mp=/art/1716/
might be useful to you; you can see the types of images it has at:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:The_Yorck_Project
In fact, you could just as easily browse through all they have in the second
link (keep hitting
On Oct 2, 2007, at 8:55 PM, Sylvia Rognstad wrote:
Do any of you costume instructors know of a source for costume/
fashion history cds? I've been trying to take photos out of books
but either I can't keep the book flat or I can't keep the camera
steady enough so the pictures come out
Sorry Andy - brain fart.
Patty
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Andrew T Trembley
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 3:12 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume photos
On Oct 3, 2007, at 10:52 AM, Rickard, Patty wrote
permission first.
Patty
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of monica spence
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 10:18 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: RE: [h-cost] costume photos
Download pics from the web, put them into your computer picture file
On Oct 3, 2007, at 3:50 PM, Sylvia Rognstad wrote:
Does one need permission just to take pics to show for a class?
There's no way I am going to try to do that for all the books I'm
copying out of.
http://www.utsystem.edu/OGC/IntellectualProperty/copypol2.htm
UT's Crash Course in
In a message dated 10/3/2007 7:29:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:The_Yorck_Project
**
Nice!
But they're alphabetized by the artists' FIRST names Weird.
**
In a message dated 10/3/2007 8:53:14 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Copywriting is what a copywriter does.
Copyright is an intellectual property. Simply put, it's the right to
control reproduction and use of a work. That's why it's right and
not write.
In a message dated 10/3/2007 9:05:38 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Oct 3, 2007, at 3:50 PM, Sylvia Rognstad wrote:
Does one need permission just to take pics to show for a class?
There's no way I am going to try to do that for all the books I'm
copying
...or maybe copywights for virtual copies. :-)
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wed 10/3/2007 9:45 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume photos
In a message dated 10/3/2007 8:53:14 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time
It seems to me you only need permission if you're making money
directly off the image.
A common misconception, but it's not true. Whether or not you use the image to
make money (or even if you just charge money to cover the expenses of
publishing and don't make anything) is irrelevant to
But I'm not publishing the photos I copy. You keep using the word
publish.
Sylrog
On Oct 3, 2007, at 8:37 PM, Robin Netherton wrote:
It seems to me you only need permission if you're making money
directly off the image.
A common misconception, but it's not true. Whether or not you use
But I'm not publishing the photos I copy. You keep using the
word publish.
I was speaking about copyright law, not about you specifically; I didn't want
the previous comment (you only need permission if you're making money off it)
to stand without discussion, because the issue of money is so
Robin Netherton wrote:
And when was I pursued? Not me, but the magazine I worked for. Our designer created a cover design that used
a Superman type treatment about super fund raisers and a visual image of an office
worker opening his shirt to reveal a dollar sign treated like Superman's S. DC
Robin Netherton wrote:
But I'm not publishing the photos I copy. You keep using the
word publish.
I was speaking about copyright law, not about you specifically; I didn't want the
previous comment (you only need permission if you're making money off it) to
stand without discussion,
I wrote And when was I pursued? Not me, but the magazine I worked for. Our
designer created a cover design that used a Superman type treatment about
super fund raisers and a visual image of an office worker opening his shirt
to reveal a dollar sign treated like Superman's S. DC Comics saw one
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