Re: Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT vacuums
At 23:54 17/10/2005, you wrote: $400 is about the equivalent of what you'd pay for a newer version of a dyson over here these days - but from my experience they're probably not worth the outlay (we've got one - can't remember which model). Was brilliant for a few months, but it just couldn't cope with cat hair, cat litter and thread. There just seems to be too much that can go wrong (with the uprights at least). We now have a vax (don't know if they're available in the states). It's fabulous - picks up the cat hairs and litter, the thread, my hair (which is quite long usually), the mud etc. from the re-enactment stuff, and al the dust. It even manages to suck the chalk dust out of my worn out flattened old sewing room carpet. All that and it washes too (not that I've actually ever used the washy bit). Comment from my husband. He works at the Barbican Theatre as a technician and they use Dysons there all the time. (Apparently exactly the same as my domestic one.) He says they knock the b*ll*cks out of them all the time and they don't go wrong. Occasionally some of the plastic bits and pieces break, but they are easy to replace. They are used on carpet, wood floor, and various anonymous substances, and they are excellent for everything. ( I only discovered this today!) Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] carpet sweeper
This is my best thread chaser, too! Kathleen - Original Message - From: lindasterner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: h-costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 8:42 PM Subject: [h-cost] carpet sweeper At the restaurant where I work we use Bissel carpet sweepers all the time. We cannot use vacuum cleaners in the restaurant because they kick up dust and stuff. These sweepers are fantastic!!! They even pick up french fries and ice too!!! They are $27 at Walmart. Linda S. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Samantha, was Puffed sleeves
That's interesting. I've never heard of this author or her character before. As far as I was aware, the name Samantha was unknown in Britain before the 1960s, (it isn't in the first edition of the Oxford Dictionary of English Christian Names) and I had been grumbling because the TV series Foyle's War, set in World War 2, had a main character of that name. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 18/10/2005 05:03 The other set I am thinking about is a set of the Samantha books.And no, I don't mean the American Girl Samantha. I'm speaking of the Victorian Samantha. Another set of books my grandmother had. And before anyone thinks I'm trying to relive my childhood, don't. These are books that I learned to love with my Grandmother. That's all. The Samantha books were also written by a local woman. Marietta Holleyhttp://www.northnet.org/stlawrenceaauw/holley.htmwho was from Pierrepont Manor in Jefferson County, NY. Pierrepont was another major scene in my childhood. Marietta was a suffragette in the early days and her Samantha books are about a girl who breaks all of society's more silly rules while staying a lady. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] RE: Strange spinning question
From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows [EMAIL PROTECTED] Personally, I have never tried to collect byssal threads from mussels, though here's an article showing how to work with them. http://www.designboom.com/eng/education/byssus_howto.html I don't necessarily believe all the stuff in that article, nor in the links from it. For example, one quotes Herotidus as mentioning lace, and another says that cloth of gold was really byssus fiber fabric. That may be a later translation issue - for instance herodatus may be talking about golden cloth or something. I'll have to dig out the reference to see. What the site does do is give me some leads on more information. Unfortunately, it doesn't give me any information on where I can get yarn to have a repro of this cap knitted, or a source for a good substitute, which would have been really nice - but hey, even if not all the material is perfect, it's a better start than I had yesterday :) Marc ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 666
Hi Bjarne, Your silk must be lighter than I imagined, as a pale pearl gray - as I think of it anyway - isn't a very dark gray. I am sure your suit will turn out lovely and I look forward to seeing pictures of the finished results. 900 colors of embroidery silk! You are sure to find a perfect match. Annette M -- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 20:28:31 +0200 From: Bjarne og Leif Drews Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: habit francaise To: Historical Costume Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Dear Anette, This is what i had in mind, would be lovely on a grey silk. But it was not used with a darker toned waistcoat, so ill have to stick on the off white. But that can also be nice. Would you magine, i searched for a twisted high glossy silk and found Mulberry Silks in England. I mailed the lady today because i want to order some things from her. She says they have 900 collours to choose from!!! That doesnt help much hah! Bjarne - Original Message - From: Kahlara To: Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 7:19 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: habit francaise Hello Bjarne, Although this is not a period that I have worked with, I am a little familiar with it and I have enjoyed looking at your pictures of costumes and your exquisite embroidery. It does sound like you have made your decision about the waist coat - but my mind's eye came up with this...I don't know if fabric of this sort it is period, but what about a pale pearl gray with the same rosy undertones as the jacket silk? If such a thing can be found. Your embroidery plans for this suit sound lovely. Annette M === - Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] carpet sweeper
How do they work on hardwood floors? My Border Collie sheds enough to knit a whole new dog. There, obligatory costume content--sort of! ;) Arlys At the restaurant where I work we use Bissel carpet sweepers all the time. We cannot use vacuum cleaners in the restaurant because they kick up dust and stuff. These sweepers are fantastic!!! They even pick up french fries and ice too!!! They are $27 at Walmart. Linda S. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Samantha, was Puffed sleeves
The Samantha books can be read online at project Gutenberg. You can also find copies fairly easily online. They aren't true children's books although they are often cited as such. They are books for young ladies. I'd say the 13 and up crowd. I assure you however that they are well before 1960 and were written by Marrietta Holley who died in 1926. Well before the second World War. http://www.northnet.org/stlawrenceaauw/holley.htm Samantha Allen was if I recall born in 1872 when her author had already written several other pieces. Bice On 10/18/05, Kate M Bunting [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's interesting. I've never heard of this author or her character before. As far as I was aware, the name Samantha was unknown in Britain before the 1960s, (it isn't in the first edition of the Oxford Dictionary of English Christian Names) and I had been grumbling because the TV series Foyle's War, set in World War 2, had a main character of that name. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Napoleonic train
Thought this might be of interest to some of our embroiderers: http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/search/LotDetail.asp?intObjectID=4587 482 http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/search/LotDetail.asp?intObjectID=458 7482SN=7109LN=0106 SN=7109LN=0106 Regards, Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry purveyors of historical sewing patterns, quality hand-crafted cooperage, re-enactor and embroidery supplies, and more. 519-799-5577 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - www.5rivers.org ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Strange spinning question
I don't have a whole lot to add to the discussion except that it has been discussed on our list before. Might want to check the archives. Sg ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Napoleonic train
Dear Lorina, It doesnt work. Not in tiny url either. Bjarne - Original Message - From: Five Rivers Chapmanry [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 6:04 PM Subject: [h-cost] Napoleonic train Thought this might be of interest to some of our embroiderers: http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/search/LotDetail.asp?intObjectID=4587 482 http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/search/LotDetail.asp?intObjectID=458 7482SN=7109LN=0106 SN=7109LN=0106 Regards, Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry purveyors of historical sewing patterns, quality hand-crafted cooperage, re-enactor and embroidery supplies, and more. 519-799-5577 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - www.5rivers.org ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Napoleonic train
Sorry, I could not get these links to work even after cutting and pasting the entire content. -Original Message- From: Five Rivers Chapmanry [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:04:32 -0400 Subject: [h-cost] Napoleonic train Thought this might be of interest to some of our embroiderers: http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/search/LotDetail.asp?intObjectID=4587 482 http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/search/LotDetail.asp?intObjectID=458 7482SN=7109LN=0106 SN=7109LN=0106 Regards, Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry purveyors of historical sewing patterns, quality hand-crafted cooperage, re-enactor and embroidery supplies, and more. 519-799-5577 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - www.5rivers.org ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Napoleonic train
Cut and paste the two bits separately. Copy the first line into the location field, and then type the 482 on after that, and it'll come up. It's gorgeous, and you especially need to see it, Bjarne! KP Bjarne og Leif Drews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Lorina, It doesnt work. Not in tiny url either. Bjarne - Original Message - From: Five Rivers Chapmanry To: Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 6:04 PM Subject: [h-cost] Napoleonic train Thought this might be of interest to some of our embroiderers: http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/search/LotDetail.asp?intObjectID=4587 482 7482SN=7109LN=0106 SN=7109LN=0106 Regards, Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry purveyors of historical sewing patterns, quality hand-crafted cooperage, re-enactor and embroidery supplies, and more. 519-799-5577 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - www.5rivers.org ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume - Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Napoleonic train
Well drat! Okay, so go here: http://www.christies.com/promos/oct05/7109/overview.asp Then click on the 5th icon on the right hand side of the screen, which is a purple and gold train. It is truly one of the last vestiges of the glorious art of embroidery. Dictator and tyrant Napoleon may have been, but he certainly was a style-guru. :-) Regards, Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry purveyors of historical sewing patterns, quality hand-crafted cooperage, re-enactor and embroidery supplies, and more. 519-799-5577 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - www.5rivers.org ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Napoleonic train
Meow! Very gorgeous. I have developed a profound respect for embroiderers who use metallic threads thanks to my coif, and looking at this mantle made my eyes roll back in my head. ;-) ~Kimberley -Original Message- From: Five Rivers Chapmanry [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 13:48:58 -0400 Subject: [h-cost] Napoleonic train Well drat! Okay, so go here: http://www.christies.com/promos/oct05/7109/overview.asp Then click on the 5th icon on the right hand side of the screen, which is a purple and gold train. It is truly one of the last vestiges of the glorious art of embroidery. Dictator and tyrant Napoleon may have been, but he certainly was a style-guru. :-) Regards, Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry purveyors of historical sewing patterns, quality hand-crafted cooperage, re-enactor and embroidery supplies, and more. 519-799-5577 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - www.5rivers.org ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] carpet sweeper
I saw a commercial on TV for a new Swiffer - it's for carpets and has a sticky pad on the inside to catch the sweepings. They show it working with loose items, such as dry cereal. I don't know how well it would work with things that stick, like thread and cat hair. -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Napoleonic train-some shoes too
Here are some cool shoes from the same lot... *http://tinyurl.com/dzjlq* WickedFrau wrote: Holy Smokes...that is something else! Here is the first link as a TinyI couldn't get the second link to work either...maybe it was just the close up as the item number seems to be the same. *http://tinyurl.com/8ofvj Sg *** ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Vair
On Tue, 18 Oct 2005, Dawn wrote: Does anybody know why vair was considerd an upper class fur? Surely squirrels must have been as common as rats or rabbits. I'd highly recommend a book mentioned often on this list: Elspeth Veale's The English Fur Trade in the Later Middle Ages. Thoroughly researched, deeply sourced, and not at all dull. Vair wasn't just squirrel, but the fur of the Baltic red squirrel, specifically certain ones imported from the coldest areas of northern and central Europe (mostly Scandinavia and Russia), and taken in winter (when the fur was thickest and also turned color -- grey back and white belly, without the red streaks from the rest of the year). Depending on how the fur was trimmed and assembled, it had different names, e.g. minever (white bellies with a fine line of the grey back remaining around each belt) or pured minever (white only), among others. It took a zillion of the little creatures to make one fur (meaning a large assembled piece) so that's a lot of trapping, preparing, and sewing. One of the useful tools Veale includes is a glossary of the various furs and fur terms. She has a separate section just for Baltic squirrel with nearly 40 terms broken down as meaning various colors, places of origin, quality levels, stage and manner of preparation, etc. --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re:[h-cost] Napoleonic train
Here's a tinyurl for it... http://tinyurl.com/8ofvj and the second one... http://tinyurl.com/a32zx The train is stunning! Thank you for the link. Robert of Stonemarche ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] court train
Hi, Thanks for posting the link. Embroidery is stunning but honnestly i would never have made it on a purple velvet. It dont match gold i think. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] court train
In a message dated 10/18/2005 3:08:09 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Embroidery is stunning but honnestly i would never have made it on a purple velvet. It dont match gold i think. Ah, but very imperial, isn't it? Ann Wass ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] court train
Perhaps it was because he was emperor and not king. Kings uses red,`? At the danish national museum there is an embroidered court suit made for the danish ambassador in Paris. He wore this when Napoleon was crowned. Denmark was for Napoleon, and as you all know, the english came and bombed Copenhagen. A very bad mistake! Bjarne - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 9:23 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] court train In a message dated 10/18/2005 3:08:09 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Embroidery is stunning but honnestly i would never have made it on a purple velvet. It dont match gold i think. Ah, but very imperial, isn't it? Ann Wass ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Was carpet sweeper, now dog hair
I haven't yet, but a friend of mine who is a spinner did. Made some very successful yarn from it too. She said it didn't need blending because it already had a nice twist in it and made a fairly strong yarn. Arlys On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 14:15:48 -0400 Helen Pinto [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Arlys wrote: My Border Collie sheds enough to knit a whole new dog. There, obligatory costume content--sort of! ;) Have you tried carding, spinning and knitting from it? When I was college, a friend of mine made a sweater from Alfie, her Old English Sheepdog and unofficial scene shop mascot. It was soft and a nice grey, although it did smell more than a little like Alfie the first few times it got wet. I remember a book from the early 70's called _Knitting from Your Dog_, but I can't find it right now. However, there's this one: _Knitting With Dog Hair: Better A Sweater From A Dog You Know and Love Than From A Sheep You'll Never Meet_ by Kendall Crolius, ISBN: 0312152906. -Helen /Aidan ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] carpet sweeper
Carol wrote: I saw a commercial on TV for a new Swiffer - it's for carpets and has a sticky pad on the inside to catch the sweepings. I just used mine for the first time, and it pulled everything off the rug- beads, crumbs, hair, thread. You don't want to look at the pad too closely when you take it out. It works. The downside is probably going to be the cost, since replacement pads cost $4 for 12. A good old-fashioned carpet sweeper will probably be more cost effective. -Helen/Aidan ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Archves (was Strange spinning question)
Hi Marc, here is a bookmark for some of the emails I was referring to. http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/~fashion/archives/hcos01/hcos03.cl Sometimes it is easier to google the web for what you are looking for and include h-cost too. This allows you to search the body if the email as well as the subject, which in this case didn't contain any of the terms you were looking for. Hope that helps.at least this gets you somewhere close to the thread (the discussionnot the hairs!). I didn't read it thoroughly, so I don't know if there was much helpful in it. Sg Mac Carlson wrote: I would be surprised if it hadn't been previously discussed, but couldn't find anything in the archives for Byssus, Bissus, Sea silk, seasilk, etc. I even tried fish wool. I'm open for suggestions on key words to try. Marc ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Cranach dress
I'm doing some research on the german Cranach dress style. I would love to hear thoughts, ideas, websites etc. for a. Bodice: attached or not, b. is there a band of fabric from shoulder to shoulder at the back that is edited out of most paintings (But is often seen in the German housebook for example). c. closure in the side front? d. corset or no? Thanks Jean/Raella Only the mediocre are always at their best - Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Was carpet sweeper, now dog hair
At 1:50 PM -0700 10/18/05, Cynthia J Ley wrote: I haven't yet, but a friend of mine who is a spinner did. Made some very successful yarn from it too. She said it didn't need blending because it already had a nice twist in it and made a fairly strong yarn. When I was actively spinning, I was asked if I'd take a commission from a local afghan (hound) club to make an afghan afghan. I thought it was a cute idea but didn't have the time. I believe there's also a book on using dog hair in weaving -- IIRC it's titled or subtitled (yes really) From Woof to Warp. I suppose the temptation was irresistible, really -- OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Cranach dress
I'm doing some research on the german Cranach dress style. I would love
to hear thoughts, ideas, websites etc. for a. Bodice: attached or not,
There's one Cranach painting where the front edges of the dress don't quite
line up, as tho the front corners weren't attached to the skirt. But
there's another Cranach painting where someone like Lucretia is about to
stab herself, and the whole bodice seems to have peeled down to the waist.
b. is there a band of fabric from shoulder to shoulder at the back that is
edited out of most paintings (But is often seen in the German housebook
for example).
Not on a 'Cranach' dress; only on 'Durer' dresses.
c. closure in the side front?
Front, I think.
d. corset or no?
Whether or not there's an actual corset, there's some kind of body shaper
inside there.
CarolynKayta Barrows
dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian
www.FunStuft.com
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-@@\\\
7 )))
(((
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[h-cost] Re: Cranach Dress
Lurking newcomer actually has some input on this one :-) Having made about 50 - literally - of these placket-front Germans, maybe I can share some insight. The bodice is indeed attached to the skirt, and the cartridge pleats of the skirt are set horizontally to the bottom of the bodice or a waistband. There's no evidence I have seen yet for bum rolls in Germany in the early 16th century, but this method is documented in Blanche Payne on a military base, as well as seen on existing garments in Uppsala cathedral. (I think it's also referenced in Waffen-und Kostumkunde, but I can't remember which article and volume at the moment.) The opening is on the front side, at the side of the stomacher (see below). There's some debate about whether the bodice laces over a chemise with a placket at the top, or whether the it laces over a whole frontspiece. The existence of contemporary laced-front gowns in France, England and other parts of Germany that have full stomachers suggests that a stomacher is probably correct. Correct or not, it is certainly the one I have had the most luck with. The lacing is done either with lacing strips attached to the inside of the bodice, or small, metal rings attached at the edge. Not corseted. I have tried these gowns with corsets, and the silhouette is all wrong. I use boning in a fan-shaped pattern on the stomacher, which has worked well. (Corded support or a corded corset would probably look even better, but I haven't tried that yet.) And I don;t believe the chemise is attached at all. As to straps across the back, I haven't seen a reason to do them, and I've managed some pretty low-backed styles. The trick is to get the edge of the shoulder piece to sit right in the av joint (that little hollow you can feel on shoulder), and then the shoulders stay put. Hope that's helpful. -Wendy Greenhut-Bliss (Mistress Etaine du Pommier) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Archves (was Strange spinning question)
At 12:57 PM -0500 10/18/05, Marc Carlson wrote: From: WickedFrau [EMAIL PROTECTED] I don't have a whole lot to add to the discussion except that it has been discussed on our list before. Might want to check the archives. I would be surprised if it hadn't been previously discussed, but couldn't find anything in the archives for Byssus, Bissus, Sea silk, seasilk, etc. I even tried fish wool. I'm open for suggestions on key words to try. Having remembered some sort of discussion on this term before, I searched in my archives and turned up a thread on the Historic-Knit list where I'd done a little research into the history of the words involved. Here's my posting from that list, along with the preceding context. Heather === To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Heather Rose Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [HistoricKnit] Re: Greek mussel beard gloves Cc: Bcc: X-Attachments: At 8:02 PM -0700 7/28/03, Chris Laning wrote: At 5:36 PM -0600 7/28/03, Rebecca Perry wrote: Today I was watching Jacques Pepin and Julia Child cooking together on TV, and he said something about Greek fishermen making gloves out of the beards of mussels. I googled and found a couple of off-hand mentions of this, but no details. Has anyone else ever heard of this? I have -- I saw it mentioned in (of all things) a book about cooking seafood. Mussels do secrete threads of a very strong substance that looks very much like silk, in order to attach themselves to the rocks they live on. The stuff is called byssus. Apparently it's supposed to be a lovely golden color and to make very fine yarn. I don't, however, have any evidence that people actually _used_ this stuff, and I'd love to know whether there actually is such evidence or whether this is just a story. (I'd also think it would be rather hard to process and would take a lof of cleaning before you could use it.) The one time I've seen it mentioned is in a book on medieval textiles in Switzerland (Mittelalterliche Textilien in Kirchen und Klo:stern der Schweiz_ by Brigitta Schmedding) where there are some very fragile scraps of a veil-like material that have been labeled as byssus. However determining what they actually are is complicated. Apparently it's very difficult to tell byssus from silk except possibly under a microscope, and the current consensus about this fabric is that it probably is just silk. I'd love to know if there's any more information out there. (P.S. Just to complicate matters, there is also at least one plant fiber called byssus, not too surprising since I think that's just It's even more complicated than that. Byssus (Greek byssos, from a Semitic root) starts out meaning an extremely fine linen, although the word was later extended to (or misinterpreted as referring to) similarly fine cotton or silk fabric. (See, e.g. Lewis Short's Latin dictionary, Lidel Scott's Classical Greek dictionary, OED.) I can't find any mention of the use of the word byssus for the mollusc filaments earlier than the late 18th century, which is also when the first mention of people using these fibers for textiles starts showing up (OED, ref. William Beck's The Draper's Dictionary). But it's clear that the mollusc filaments were named after the linen textile because of their fineness. I would tend to assume that any medieval reference to byssus would be to the linen fabric (or to the silk or cotton analogs). I suspect that a fair amount of the confusion comes from a greater modern familiarity with the term in reference to shellfish than in the older usage. That is, you get people reading an early reference to byssus and assuming that it means the mollusc filaments, and perhaps then elaborating on that concept by assumption only. It seems to me that one clear distinction between silk and mollusc byssus would be the length of the fibers. (Beck's mention describes the mollusc byssus being spun to produce a thread.) Unless you've got an underwater byssus farm where you're attaching weights to the end of the byssus thread and drawing it out as the mollusc produces it, I don't see how you're going to get fibers longer than a few inches. In fact, I'd want to see someone go through the process of turning mollusc byssus into cloth before I'll be convinced that it's a plausible process, rather than being a myth produced by a misunderstanding, similar to the vegetable lamb. -- * Heather Rose Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://heatherrosejones.com * ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: Cranach Dress
As to straps across the back, I haven't seen a reason to do them, and I've
managed some pretty low-backed styles. The trick is to get the edge of the
shoulder piece to sit right in the av joint (that little hollow you can feel
on shoulder), and then the shoulders stay put.
The dresses in Albrecht Durer illustrations - the ones with the wide
U-shaped neckline - sometimes have straps across the back. Woodcuts show
them, but only on those dresses. I've never seen one on a Cranach dress.
CarolynKayta Barrows
dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian
www.FunStuft.com
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Re: [h-cost] Was carpet sweeper, now dog hair
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Was carpet sweeper, now dog hair At 1:50 PM -0700 10/18/05, Cynthia J Ley wrote: I haven't yet, but a friend of mine who is a spinner did. Made some very successful yarn from it too. She said it didn't need blending because it already had a nice twist in it and made a fairly strong yarn. When I was actively spinning, I was asked if I'd take a commission from a local afghan (hound) club to make an afghan afghan. I thought it was a cute idea but didn't have the time. I believe there's also a book on using dog hair in weaving -- IIRC it's titled or subtitled (yes really) From Woof to Warp. I suppose the temptation was irresistible, really -- For some dog owners the temptation is more a survival reaction. :-) My uncle raises Alaskan Malamutes, and often puppy-sits for other Mala-mutt owners. He has had up to 25 dogs at his acreage at one time. That's a LOT of dog fluff! My Malamutt every spring would shed a garbage bag's worth of soft undercoat, her favorite thing was to sit with me outside and let me pull handfuls of the stuff off of her - much easier than trying to scratch it off herself I'm sure. A friend of my uncle's would come and collect the fluff from him and other Malamute and Samoyed owners then spin and knit the colletion every year, she made a nice bit of money at the season's dog shows selling the results. Softer than you might think, and very warm. :-) Sheridan (missing my dog now...) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Cranach dress
Hi Jean/Raella-- I'm doing the Martyrdom of St. Barbara gown (Metropolitan Mus. of Art, NYC) 20,000 beads and counting... The shirt and bodice are definitely connected. Because of how she is kneeling I think it would be a back closure-- at least on this dress. It has a lot of Italian influence to my eye. Side closure... maybe, but nothing evident from the painting. Corset... probably not. Check out that huge book on Cranach. (Lucas Cranach, by Friedlander and Rosenberg) It shows lots of pics of women with their dresses open, like the multiple paintings of Lucretia. There are a few back views also. Most of the plates are BW, but some color.It is a great resource... One of these days I'll finish the darn thing... Regards- Dame Catriona MacDuff -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 6:23 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cranach dress I'm doing some research on the german Cranach dress style. I would love to hear thoughts, ideas, websites etc. for a. Bodice: attached or not, b. is there a band of fabric from shoulder to shoulder at the back that is edited out of most paintings (But is often seen in the German housebook for example). c. closure in the side front? d. corset or no? Thanks Jean/Raella Only the mediocre are always at their best - Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
