Re: [h-cost] slashing fabric
These only go back to the 18th c. I'm sure they were using something similar earlier. I wasn't thinking pinking, but slashing, straight cuts. On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 4:01 AM, Kate Bunting katembunt...@gmail.com wrote: Julie wrote: Thanks for the responses. I knew the slashings could be done so they wouldn't fray. I guess the part I was really surprised by was saying that they slashed the clothing that was too small so it could be worn. I don' t know if that's just an origin story or what, but the Landsknect clothing I've seen was beautifully slashed in decorative ways and not in ways to make it larger. Surely, to get into garments that are too small you would need to cut the armholes, waistband etc, not just stretch the body of the fabric? I'd vote for the conspicuous consumption theory. BTW, the spelling is KNECHT (related to the English word knight which originally meant a manservant, then a military follower). Kate Bunting Retired librarian 17th century reenactor ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- *Maitresse Aspasia * ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] slashing fabric
I don't know that much about Lanskneckt, I'm more into women's fashions. However, I do know they would also do a buttonhole stitch around the edges to accent it more in other places in Europe. Sometimes there may be a lining they would sew the slashes to. Remember, they hand sewed everything. As far as a chisel for cutting, a blade works better and is easier. I would think this is what they would use. On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 12:07 AM, Magge Genie maggeg...@gmail.com wrote: When you look at the Lanskneckt research out there, much of it looks like a uniform. That leg short with an optional legging, that one to the knee and a long sock tied at the knee. One of the soldiers was an artist, sketching his comrades, and recorded the consistency of the clothing. The higher rank you achieved, the better and more fancy the uniform. I don't always recommend Osprey, but the reproductions of the drawings in the Lanskneckt sp? Book are really cool. Genie On Jul 22, 2014, at 2:53 PM, Julie jtknit...@gmail.com wrote: I saw this on another list and I thought I'd check with the wise folks on this list. I've never heard this before. Truth or myth? I took a history of fashion class in college (design major) and the decorative cutting of clothes goes back to the 16th century if not earlier. It started with the german warriors who would take the fine silk clothing of the people they bested in battle but the clothing was too small (these were evidently big guys) so they cut the pants up in decorative slashes so that they could still wear them. (look up landschkinects) This was of course before the invention of the washing machine so the fabric didn't disintegrate like it would now with modern washing practices. And the fashion spread throughout Europe. The frayed edges of the cuts were definitely part of the design element of it to the extent that there were some fabrics woven to look like they had been decoratively cut...the frayed edge duplicated with an overlaid weft that was severed after weaving (like velvet, only in spots) and there were special chisels made for the tailors to do the cutting with. Thanks for your wisdom Julie On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 11:00 AM, h-costume-requ...@indra.com wrote: Send h-costume mailing list submissions to h-costume@mail.indra.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to h-costume-requ...@mail.indra.com You can reach the person managing the list at h-costume-ow...@mail.indra.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of h-costume digest... Today's Topics: 1. LonCon Membership for sale (cc2010m...@cs.com) -- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 16:06:49 -0400 (EDT) From: cc2010m...@cs.com To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] LonCon Membership for sale Message-ID: 8d1733670fc8cbe-f04-12...@webmail-m257.sysops.aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello, I am selling my membership to LonCon, the world SF con in London. I am asking $100, which is what it cost me at ChiCon. Henry Osier -- ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume End of h-costume Digest, Vol 13, Issue 62 * ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- *Maitresse Aspasia * ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Fwd: 1/2 scale design challenge, any period, Fashion Icons through the Ages
I don't understand. I can see using a half-scale for design, but don't you need a full scale to make it fit right? On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 10:21 AM, Wicked Frau wickedf...@gmail.com wrote: Great opportunity for us Historical types to show off what we can do! I saw this in my Threads Magazine. It looks like a lot of fun! Very good deal too. Participants purchase the competition kit ($99), which includes a professional half-scale dress form and access to four high-definition online video lessons presented by Joi. The lessons are 20- to 35-minute-long tutorials on the design process, fashion sketching, draping, and submitting challenge entries. A downloadable croquis and complete half-scale sloper set are provided. Videos are available for viewing at any time after receiving the access code. The entry fee covers the cost of the half-scale form and its shipping. https://www.threadsmagazine.com/item/36531/half-scale-design-competition-for-ase-2014 NOTE: The link to the contest entry form from the threads page does not work, Use this one or click on the contest button on the menu. http://www.americansewingexpo.com/Contests.html http://www.americansewingexpo.com/Contests.htmla -- -Sg- -- -Sg- ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- *Maitresse Aspasia * ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Boning and corsets for musicians
Corsets weren't worn in early Tudor times. I research 1490 give or take 20 years. On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 8:48 AM, Carol Kocian aqua...@patriot.net wrote: On Oct 21, 2013, at 5:15 AM, michaeljdeib...@gmail.com wrote: Elastic panels could help bit perhaps adapting the style would be better. A mesh or sports corset might provide enough give while also providing enough support for the period. The problem there, though, is that the gown worn over a corset does not have any give to it. The corset creates a smooth line for the gown to fit. If the corset stretches, the gown would also need a stretch section or a pleat to handle it. Is there a 19thC version of a Watteau back for a gown? -Carol __**_ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/**listinfo/h-costumehttp://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- *Maitresse Aspasia * ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] What's your dressmaker's dummy wearing today?
Suzie is wearing a sheer undergown in pink and brown on white. Over this goes a brown and gold 16th c. Italian with natural waistline and hanging sleeves lined with a brownish-gold. Promised to a friend. On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 6:53 AM, lis...@juno.com wrote: One of them is about to be dressed splendidly in an 1895 two-piece indigo velvet dress with cream lace decoration that I bought at an auction in July. Another is dressed in a gorgeous 1887 black dressof heavy satin, with a bustle and incredible beadwork on the collar, bodice and cuffs. The third iswearingwhat will be my costume for the Haunt I'll be performing at: a Redneck Zombie Grandma, with a zombie squirrel on my shoulder (the squirrel has to have the attachments made so it will stay solidly attached to me). Yours in costumign, Lisa Ashton AKA Miss Lizzy, Miss Lizzy's Traveling Historical Fashion Show ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- *Maitresse Aspasia * ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Medieval brides wore red.
I have read that Rom wear red skirts only on their wedding day. Scarlet was an expensive fabric, not necessarily red. That causes a lot of confusion. My studies show they wore their best outfit, no matter the color. -- *Maistresse Aspasia * ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] historical costume books
Right now I can send you by pay pal $150 for the Late Gothic Period book and the lesser Elizabeth unlocked. I can use paypal. I'm in Florida. -- *Maistresse Aspasia * ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Question on Court Fashion in 1500
You might check out the Hispanic Costume book, as Juana la Loca (oldest daughter of Isabella) was married to the Magnificent Max. The styles they wore were very similiar. Aspasia On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Sharon Henderson henderson.sha...@gmail.com wrote: Good evening all, In the SCA, my kingdom 12th Night for this season has a theme of the Court of Maximilian, Holy Roman Emperor, basically a Night in Vienna in 1500. 1500 is such an interesting year. :) I've looked at a lot of images lately. Seriously a transitional time for noble clothing. I've seen some things clearly based on Burgundian high-waisted gowns and some that look like early Tudor (Elizabeth of York, Katherine of Aragon, who was after all related to the Emperor). There have even been some images that show Maximilian and his lady in older-style clothing: for example, the Empress in one of those drop-waisted gowns that have the massively voluminous skirts and the almost shield-shaped upper parts over a cotehardie-style under-gown. I don't think I'll go that latter route, but here's what I'm thinking. I have Reconstructing History's Cranach gown pattern (1506-1520s, basically), as well as their under-kirtle and gown for the pre-Tudor 1490s. In the case of the former, it might be possible to work backward toward creating an earlier form of that--much as if the fashion was just starting and some lady wanted to be completely, daringly au fait and wear it to Court for 12th Night. In the latter case, it might be possible to start with the 1490s look and postulate forward to the vague era between the two fashion periods. Headgear could be anything from a truncated Burgundian cone over a transitional hood (seen this a lot in the images) or just a hood by itself with a brooch pinned to the fold-back... or... what? Were those fascinating linen German headdresses worn to Court-level functions? So many questions!! So! If you were able to go back in time and visit Maximilian's court in January of 1500 and wanted to fit in, would you start with the Cranach and try to work backward in fashion? Or would you start with the pre-1490s set and work forward? And what would you do for hair/hat styling? I figure if I start now, I have half a hope of actually finishing something :) Cheers, Meli ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- *Maitresse Aspasia * ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Fashion/costume wall calendars for 2012
Still no fashions pre-1600? -- *Maistresse Aspasia * ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] costume on book covers, argh
Did you see the write-up on one of the Maria books? Maria is the daughter of a robber baron who marries an ambitious young Norman knight. Why would the Baron marry a Knight? LOL The little things bother me too. The author should have approval of the blurbs too. -- *Maistresse Aspasia * ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Linen for dyeing
You order them on line. They are free. You can order up to 5. Click the symbol next to the picture. Is there any linen there you'd especially recommend? I've asked them about swatches but they have not replied. *8 -- *Maitresse Aspasia * ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Hair styles
Thanks. My hair is long enough to sit on and I'm not good with hair. I appreciate the good how tos to try to do something besides a braid or ponytail. *Maistresse Aspasia * ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] coifs
I have a book (somewhere...I just moved) that shows a girl wearing an emboidered or brocade coif in the 15th century. It is an *Illustration by Octavien de Saint-Gelias. 1468-1502. It wouldn't copy and paste, but you might google it. I could find only plain ones earlier. However, they would often wear hats over embroidered coifs as well in later period.* *Maistresse Aspasia * ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] coifs
That's the one. Guess I'll have to change my notes to 16th c. Thanks. On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 4:26 PM, Kimiko Small kim...@kimiko1.com wrote: Do you mean this image? http://www.kimiko1.com/research-16th/FrenchHood/earlyforms/OctavienIllustration.html Kimiko On May 24, 2011, at 8:42 AM, Bonnie Booker wrote: I have a book (somewhere...I just moved) that shows a girl wearing an emboidered or brocade coif in the 15th century. It is an *Illustration by Octavien de Saint-Gelias. 1468-1502. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- *Maitresse Aspasia * ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] coifs
That's the way I read it. Thanx On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 7:58 PM, Kimiko Small kim...@kimiko1.com wrote: No, don't change your notes. It is only listed on my web site, to show what a coif that may have been worn under a French hood might look like. It is most likely 15th century as the artist died in 1502. Kimiko On May 24, 2011, at 4:11 PM, Bonnie Booker wrote: That's the one. Guess I'll have to change my notes to 16th c. Thanks. On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 4:26 PM, Kimiko Small kim...@kimiko1.com wrote: Do you mean this image? http://www.kimiko1.com/research-16th/FrenchHood/earlyforms/OctavienIllustration.html ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- *Maitresse Aspasia * ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Looking for more information on a portrait of Henry VIII
Hi everyone, I was looking at portraits of Henry VIII today and found this portrait I hadn't seen before http://www.flickr.com/photos/60861613@N00/3711035063/sizes/o/in/set-72157617185980487/ It looks to be a copy of the famous Holbein portrait but with very little decoration (as my embroidery skills are not up to much it seems much more feasible) So, my question is does anybody know of a larger version of this image or more details (e.g. artist or collection) so I can narrow my search. You could look for a brocade that looks right for that period and cut it in strips for the embroidery... *Maitresse Aspasia * ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Wool supplier?
You might check out gypsycaravan.com they import wool on an irregular basis. Being a co-op it us cheaper depending on how many orders. They are working on an order now. Most of theirs is from England or Scotland. I like their wool melton. -- *Maitresse Aspasia * ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Textiles in the fifteenth century
I believe there is an article in one of the books of the series Robin Netherton writes for. I don't remember which one. On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 2:36 PM, Linda Walton linda.wal...@dsl.pipex.com wrote: Please, can anyone recommend to me a really reliable source for information about the sorts of textiles, especially silk, being used in England in the fifteenth century? Any suggestions, and any comments about books you know, (both good and bad ones), will be greatly appreciated by Linda Walton. -- Aspasia Moonwind ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600
For that same shirt project, now that I have woken up and recognized the many resources already present in my studio, I'm hung up on fabric. Well, not really hung up as I can certainly use 100% linen and end up with a reasonably period shirt. But the shirt that he already has is 100% cotton - I know - not period - but very comfy and again, he likes it. Cotton not period? Sure it is. I know it was used in Spain and Itialy in the Rennaisance (Hispanic Costume 1480-1530 by Ruth Matilda Anderson p.183 worn by Empress Isabel) and Germany, where it was also mixed with linen. Muslin (aka calico in Europe) is ideal. -- Aspasia Moonwind ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] OOPS - forgot subject line - Chemise pattern
Will look for it. Next week I should have my notebooks of documentation unpacked. It will be in it. Aspasia On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 12:29 PM, Franchesca franchesca.ha...@gmail.com wrote: Try http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/Fashion/search-old.cgi?s=drawstring+shift+l=hcos06 I did not see the URL there but if you find it post it here! Franchesca -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume- boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Bonnie Booker Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 8:24 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OOPS - forgot subject line - Chemise pattern We discussed drawstrings on shifts/chemises a few years ago, and the consensus was that before the 18th century they all had sewn gathers round the neck and wrists. I recently heard a talk by Stuart Peachey, the British expert on the 17th century, and asked him a question about this. He confirmed the above statement. -- There was a drawstring shift found in Scandinavia from either the 14th or 15th century. It was from an archelogical dig there. I don't have all my books with me right now, but I ran off a copy. I think it might have been on the Historical Costume List.. I should have bookmarked it. Aspasia Moonwind ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Aspasia Moonwind ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] OOPS - forgot subject line - Chemise pattern
We discussed drawstrings on shifts/chemises a few years ago, and the consensus was that before the 18th century they all had sewn gathers round the neck and wrists. I recently heard a talk by Stuart Peachey, the British expert on the 17th century, and asked him a question about this. He confirmed the above statement. -- There was a drawstring shift found in Scandinavia from either the 14th or 15th century. It was from an archelogical dig there. I don't have all my books with me right now, but I ran off a copy. I think it might have been on the Historical Costume List.. I should have bookmarked it. Aspasia Moonwind ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] A question on sewing fur
No, fabric has more give than skins. Direct skin to skin would wear holes and make the seam give. This way you can remove it for washing too. On 3/13/10, AVCHASE achasedes...@peoplepc.com wrote: What I was taught as a child: use a fine leather needle and a waxed thread when sewing fur by hand. I lay fake fur in the carport and chalk the pattern on the reverse then cut only the fabric, being careful to cut as little fur as possible. Audy in the high boonies of Central Texas PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Aspasia Moonwind ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] A question on sewing fur
Does anyone have any good resources on how to sew fur? I am trying to work up a class on fur in historical costuming and although I have found a few books that cover the topic but they get mixed reviews. -- One of my Apprentices is a taxidermist and furrier. She says not to sew skin to skin as it will eventally give way. Attach it to bias tape or cloth strips, then sew them together. This way the fur stays undamaged and you can remove it from costume when it needs washing. She also draws the pattern on the underside and cuts with a blade. Aspasia Moonwind ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Tag Lines and Spanish/Portugese Undergarments
Try The Hispanic Costume Book 1480-1530 by Ruth Matilda Andewrson. They have a whole section with pictures. If anyone about has any information on what the Spanish and/or Portugese called the Smock/Camisia/Chemise I would dearly love to know! -- Aspasia Moonwind ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Italian sleeve question
On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 6:47 PM, otsisto otsi...@socket.net wrote: The caps the cuffs and bodice look more like a part of the fabric then embroidery. The bodice, if you enlarge the pictures appears to be pleated. http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/CARIANISeduction.JPG http://tinyurl.com/8q48hy There are other paintings that have pleated or gathered fronts. ex: http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/LadyParapet.jpg http://tinyurl.com/8gepo9 Perhaps brocade is not the correct term. What I am saying is that the fabric may have had a design woven on one of the selvage ends (similar to some sari fabrics), including the yellow band and the seamstress may have made use of it by cutting the fabric and sewing it so that the design would end up at the cuffs, bodice and caps. The band seen is to big for a simple running stitch. That may be. I have also seen yarn threads ran along pieces for the same effect. The second picture looks to me to be gathered and the cloth sewn down on top. This was very common in Italy in the 15th c. as it was for chemises. The reason I thought the chemise in the first one may have been smocked was the way the gathers lay flat against the design and didn't seem to have line for a break. Of course it could be the Artist interpretation. None of us could be sure without a time machine. Smocking was used in Germany and Italy in the 15th c. and occasionally in France and Spain. -- Aspasia Moonwind ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] extra RE: Italian sleeve question
I don't think that it is embroidery but a similar colored brocade or a fabric that had an edge that had a gold thread design interwoven. this would make sense with the two part sleeve and that the bodice looks to be pleated as well to match the cuff ruffle and the sleeve cap. Side note: She seems to be wearing a shift under her camicia. * The chemise looks like it is smocked to me. The tiny pleats and near same color embroidery would match. Is that a necklace underneath or a sheer partlet? As for the sleeves, it looks like embroidery to me. Much of what we think is brocade from period was actually embroidered, not woven. Expecially if it had coat of arms on it. I see running stitches across the sleeves, caps, and wrist ruffles, but not the bodice itself. It looks to me like a contrast piece for the upper bodice and sleeve tops with a stitch to bring the sleeve tops and the caps together visually -- Aspasia Moonwind ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1490s Spanish help
On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 11:21 AM, Lynn Roth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I usually just lurk on this list and occasionally ask questions or respond. My question is when making a dress like this one with a close front bodice, where do you put the lacing? I've read if it's english that it goes in the back, but haven't been able to confirm or deny this. Also, if you were doing a spanish one, where would the lacing go? Did they always use lacing in this period or did they also use hookand eye, and if so where did they use it.Lllynn Juan de Alcega was printed in a later period, however the styles seemed not to move much in Spain after the beginning of the 15th c. There were many different styles, they were the leaders at the time. The Hispanic Costume Book shows where they fasten up with an open front, closed laced front, back and side closures. I can't see what kind of closures. Yes, many of them with the over robe and high waist look like they could be pregnant, even the children. What a good coverup. -- Aspasia Moonwind ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1490s Spanish help
least one figure in the Herod scene has a close front bodice and if you haven't already started the bodice that might be a way to go. http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/o/ordonez/d_felipe.html http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/j/juan/1/lazarus2.html http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/j/juan/1/herodias.html http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/b/borgona/ladyhare.html http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/g/gallego/catholic.html Those are examples from 1490-1515 with the closed front and no hoops. I think the bust portrait you have (also on WGA and by Juan de Flandres) is of a no hooped sort too. Thanks for the help. What really caught my eye was the portrait of Juana la Loca. I looked for a bodice in the 1490s that carried out that theme. I have the kirtle underneath. The bodice is cut out and the eyes bought for the laces. I have a lot of embroidery throughout. I have most of my good gowns with closed bodices, lacing in the back, side, front. I wanted something I had nothing of for some special silk a friend brought me back from China. I have had to study completely new cuts and ideas for this. I love the ideas. -- Aspasia Moonwind ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1490s Spanish help
Thanks. That was what I was thinking, but I wanted confirmation. You can see what I'm working on at www.myspace/1aspasia.com It isn't one dress, but a combination. I'm in a wheel chair and can't do hoops. It has been a while since I have updated, but just my running thoughts and pictures and documentation as I go. On an educated guess, since you didn't post an image you are working from, but I am thinking the skirt also opens in front, as a slit down from the laced opening a short ways, just enough to help you get the dress over the head. That is what I will be doing with my 1500s working dress I am working on. I'm working on a 1490 Hispanic court gown. I'm getting ready to attach the skirt. It is open in the front and laces in the front. It is open like the German gowns with laces across. Can anyone tell me how the skirt opens? ___ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] 1490s Spanish help
I'm working on a 1490 Hispanic court gown. I'm getting ready to attach the skirt. It is open in the front and laces in the front. It is open like the German gowns with laces across. Can anyone tell me how the skirt opens? -- Aspasia Moonwind ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] crochet 18th C
On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 8:31 PM, Lynn Downward [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wow, that looks exactly like a mesh crochet stitch. I saw a lot of it when I used it for the sleeves of the Irish lace over-tunic of my wedding dress. I would never have thought of it for something that early. Are we agreeing that since it's basically a chain stitch attached here and there, it's more than possible that this is really what we're looking at this early in the history of crochet? http://www.metmuseum.org/works_of_art/collection_database/the_costume_institute/Dress_Robe_a_la_Fran_aise/ViewObject.aspx?depNm=the_costume_institutepID=1kWd=OID=80001010vW=0Pg=1St=5StOd=1vT=2 You can zoom in,it is very unusual trim, not what everyone thinks of as trim from that period. very interesting. I wish the zoom was a bit more closeup! There's a detail in the book of the fly fringe. When tomorrow it is lighter, i shall photograph the dress from the book and post it for you all to see. It looks authentic to me! Bjarne I think you are right. There has been mention from 15th c. of Queen Elizabeth's favorite cauls being made of chains. Could this have been done the same? There were crochets and hooks counted in Queen Mary's belongings when she returned to the court of Henry VIII. Then there is a cope in a Spanish museum they say is trimmed in corochet. It seems strange these things keep popping up but everyone says crochet didn't exist until the 19th century. Maybe it just wasn't the fad until then. -- Aspasia Moonwind ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] lacing holes
I wasn't sure if it was this list that was discussin lacing holes, or the garb list, so I'll send to both. TEXTILES AND CLOTHING 1150-1450 put out by Musium of London in 1992 on p. 164 has extent textiles from the 14th century showing lacing holes done with a buttonhole stitch with the bead in the hole. The did a wide spaced stitch around it, then filled it in with close spaced stitches. Aspasia Moonwind ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: looking for scan of Alcega Scholar robe
On Dec 26, 2007 12:13 PM, Ruth Bean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Unless Wicked Frau has access to one of the very rare original copies of Alcega, surely there's a copyright issue involved here. Certainly in most of Europe, and I assume in the USA too, there is no right to offer and distribute copyright material freely to others without permission, even if supplied without charge. We have not authorised any display of Alcega patterns on line either. I have a copy of the original copied from microfilm, complete with waterspots. Unfortunately I loaned it to a friend who hasn't returned it yet. She says she will have it back within a week, if the mail allows. We will see. Aspasia Moonwind ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Underwear
On 9/14/07, Tori Ruhl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I understand the there is no evidence one way or the other about women wearing underpants in pre-16th century Europe. but what about during their menses? They wore them in 15th c. Spain per The Hispanic Costume Book 1480-1530. They adopted them from the Moors sarawil and were made of linen and were tied with a drawstring around the waist. They reached to just below the knee where they met the stockings. -- Aspasia Moonwind ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Walmart cloth...good news/bad news...
The little one in Dade City, Florida is keeping theirs. Good thing too, it's 50 miles to the closest JoAnns! However, many others in the state closed their out. ** I was in our Norfolk, Va. Walmart last week, and also noticed that the $1.00 bolt table was restocked. I found my favorite sales lady and she said that indeed, they were keeping their fabric department and were replacing the racks that had been removed! YIPPPE! She said that everything was planned to go back to the way it used to be. -- ** Aspasia Moonwind ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery
That would be another string altogether. Let's try embroidered cuff. On 5/6/07, Lynn Roth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a question regarding Blackwork. How do you embroider on a cuff? If you make a chemise and want to do blackwork on a cuff whats the best wa y to do it? Lynn -- Aspasia Moonwind ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Embroidered cuff
have a question regarding Blackwork. How do you embroider on a cuff? If you make a chemise and want to do blackwork on a cuff whats the best wa y to do it? Lynn Embroidering a cuff depends on what kind of cuff you are doing. As we were talking about Blackwork I presume you are talking about counted patterns. I measure the wrist and add an inch. Then I decide how wide I want the cuff, usually about 2 . I draw this with a pencil on linen, careful to follow the line of the thread of the linen. If it is hard to see, I draw a thread, measure 2 then draw another thread. This way I know it is straight. I count the pattern and divide be the number of threads. If the design is 10 spaces high, for example, and I want to fill 1 which is say 49 threads I round it off to 5 threads per stitch. It will come out slightly larger than 1, but works. This is ONLY for ADVANCED embroiders. However, for a beginner, I would say use the waste canvas you can get at most hobby stores. They are much easier to work with. You baste them over the area as a guide. Work the design. You can also do a sleeve without a cuff this way. I then cut out the cuff and proceed as usual. For a collar I do the same, draw in pencil, embroider, then cut out. I work then on scrap linen and run water soluable (school glue) around the edges so it doesn't unravel. For a sleeve without a cuff, I finish the sleeve first if there is it is large enough. If not, I at least sew down far enough to make sure the design matches up. -- Aspasia Moonwind ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery
Blackwork is my thing. I taught it back at the Known World Art/Sci Symposium in Orlando where you taught the Gothic fitted gown a few years ago. It is more correctly known as monochrome embroidery and was mentioned by Chaucer in Canterbury Tales. Chaucer mentions her collar with blackwork inside and outside. It was also sited in Viking Embroidery. There technically are no limits to stitches used. However, what most people think of is the 16th century designs made popular by the Holbein paintings, therefore the Hobein stitch. To see if something could have been done doublesided take graph paper and follow the design with a pencil. If you can do it, even with drawing back over the design with the pencil without lifting the pencil off the paper it can be done double sided. Look for designs on artifacts that can be done this way. Then check with the museums to see if they can tell you if it is done that way. That is the best I can offer you. I work mostly with duplicating designs. I am not an embroiderer, and my knowledge of medeival embroidery is skeletal -- enough to recognize situations in which it occurs, and to know when to go to others with a question. This is one of those times. I'm talking with another researcher who's working with a text reference to embroidery. One possible interpretation of the reference would be that it describes embroidery that appears on both the inside and outside of the fabric. To me, that sounds like something on the line of blackwork, designed to be neat and finished looking on both the right and wrong side, and thus suited to things like cuff and collar edges that might be turned out. So, questions: 1. Is my memory correct -- is this indeed a characteristic of blackwork? Or any other kind of historic embroidery style? Of one kind of border designs usually used on undergarments and tunic edges. 2. Is this characteristic actually documentable to any non-modern examples? (I know it's easy to assume that a standard definition of a technique must date back forever, but it might be done differently in different periods.) If so, how early? I mentally associate blackwork in particular with the Tudor period, but the reference in this case is about 1400. Many, with many different stitches, in many different countries, including Persia. 3. Can anyone point me to a published source that would document the use of such a two right sides technique to a medieval artifact? Not two right sides but the back side looks as good as the front. Ultimately my friend would like to have a citation that shows the use of such inside/outside embroidery from around 1400. Doesn't have to be blackwork. Failing that, it would be helpful to have a citation of such a technique from a later period, even if it's not c. 1400. -- Aspasia Moonwind ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] chemise styles
I am looking through Hispanic Costume 1480-1530 and it keeps mentioning chemises in the Spanish style: or in the French style or in the German style. I see all kinds of necklines. Can anyone tell me the difference? Thank you. -- Aspasia Moonwind ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Messages history
Thank you everyone. -- Aspasia Moonwind ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Messages history
Is there any way to get message history. There are some things I know were discussed in the past and I would like to look at them again without hashing it all out over again. -- Aspasia Moonwind ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 15rh century embroidery site
Definately! Thank you. 15th c. personna, embroiderer Thought this might interest you. http://medieval.webcon.net.au/period_15th_c.html Sorry - meant for a private message but what the heck - it may interest some of you too. -- Aspasia Moonwind ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: History of measuring tools + seeking a replica set of scales
Try http://www.preciousplunder.com. He does jewelry, but he has done working scales for years. He says it is something any good viking should have. After all, our household is known as The House of Shining Scales. Tell him I sent you and the price should be good. Something with a price tag that wouldn't call for me to take-out a second Mortgage to afford to buy the scales, would be nice? -- Aspasia Moonwind ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] in search of a lost person
On 5/25/06, Sue Clemenger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was laureled back when Artemisia was still a fairly young principality in Atenveldt, and with one (very inactive) exception, am actually the oldest laurel in the whole state of Montana. I got mine at 3:00 in the morning. We had one of those forever courts Trimaris used to have. I think they now have a cut-off time. Half the court left to party. The other half had gone to bed. Only a few strays were left, so it was low keyed. The Laurel Circle in Trimaris (Florida) was very small then, around a dozen I think, and a fairly new kingdom. No one else did it, or even researched it. I did the Jane Seymour sleeves with a magnifying glass and graph paper. We had no Internet, only books to go by. I was a librarian at the time, so that was handy. Love that ILL too. My masterwork piece was a linen coif done in silk, Blackwork touched with gold, that I gave my Laurel. Duchess Elspeth is Elizabethan, I'm 15th century. It toured this country in a display and twice in England as a replica. The design came from a pillow at V/A. At any rate, peerages back then were pretty much all drive-by's, with a little more attention paid to the Chiv. No warning, no special outfits, no vigils, nada. Wham, bam, thank you ma'am...next? sort of thing. The knights got all kinds of attention when elevated...vigils, cleansing, the whole bit. The other peers got a good luck back then. Now they can have something special only if they let it be known. I have always done all kinds of crafts. I grew up in the country where nothing was wasted. I had to make a handkerchief for each of my grandmothers for Christmas every year. It could be embroidered, have crochet or tatted lace, drawn work, or whatever, but it had to be special. I learned all kinds of things to prevent being bored. Aspasia Moonwind ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] in search of a lost person
On 5/25/06, Sue Clemenger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh, cool! There's another one of us! ;o) --sue, who got laureled for blackwork, she thinks (wierd peerage ceremony...what can I say?) Blackwork, Lace, Costuming, and a myrid of other things. Some 15 years ago. And you? -- Aspasia Moonwind ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] in search of a lost person
There was most likely several of us. Was I one? SCA Blackwork Laurel. Studied for 22 years. On 5/23/06, Cynthia J Ley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Would the kind individual who wrote me about blackwork please do so again? Your letter was accidentally deleted, for which I apologize. :( -- Aspasia Moonwind ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Redwork
Mistress Aspasia, do you (or anybody else for that matter) know more about the painting that this detail is from? I would have to research it and right now my husband is creating a series of internet classes for St. Leo University. I have to sneak in time to even check my email. I know the lady is 16th c. English...I think the Countess of Hardwick. The others I will have to check. I have care of 3 yr old and 6 yr old foster daughters that I have to keep a close eye on, so can't get too distracted when I'm alone with them. I will try. Maybe someone else can find them sooner. Aspasia Moonwind ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Redwork
On 2/23/06, Carletta da Nicolosi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Out of curiosity and basically ignorance on this style of embroidery, what is the earliest documentable date redwork was used on garments? It is stunning! I teach Blackwork...which includes Redwork and other Monochrome embroidery. I have found photos from the 16th century from the Hardwick collection at http://costume.dm.net/blackwork/portraits/hardwickphoto.jpg and others at http://costume.dm.net/blackwork/portraits/jesus.jpg and http://cgfa.sunsite.dk/moroni/moroni2.jpg -- Aspasia Moonwind ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] mid 19th century lace what to look for
US publishers are also required to give free copies of every book to the Library of Congress, at least if they get any cataloging data off the LOC. But the LOC, being short of storage space, simply discards a great many books, I don't know by what means. It means they put them on a shelf in the basement for a period of time. They allow non-profit organizations to select any they can use. I was allowed some for my Kingdom, using our non-profit status a few years ago. They didn't have much at the time. Most of them were old copies of things that had updated copies or well out of date. I don't know where they go from there. -- Aspasia Moonwind ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] crochet
Bonnie mentioned: ...thousands of hooks and crochets listed in the inventory of the belongings of Queen Mary I of England when returning to the court of her father, King Henry VIII. Yes, but from the surviving specimens and the way they are described in the inventories, these are clearly dress hooks (imagine the hook part of giant hook-and-eye fasteners). They have a semi-circular open hook, less than 1 inch of shaft, and end with a flat plate pierced with holes for sewing onto the garment. They would be impossible to use as tools. I differ with you, but not being able to time travel, neither of us can present definitive proof. There is clearly lace on the collars, cuffs, and headpieces of the time. Also what looks to be lace on the passements that time and before. It may or may not be. This does not pass away the crochets part of the listing nor why it is listed in conjunction with the hooks. Some people have also said it is buttoning hooks. Crochets could be anything from heavy yarns for bedhangings to decorative fine lace. There was also mentions of Elizabeth being fond of her fine chain headpieces. Again, may or may not be. There is no conclusive evidence either way. It seems to be too much circumstansal evidence to say nay. -- Aspasia Moonwind ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] crochet
On 11/1/05, Lloyd Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can someone point me in the way of needlework history of the development of crochet? Warren and Pullan indicate that it was used in ancient times by shepherds as a means of converting sheared wool into garments. Other references I have turned up give notice to tambour work, guipuire Maltese laces and such. Is there any direct documented use of this form of lace making in the 18th C? In any case, it seems to relate to more primitive and coarse lace work. Comments? I'm afraid those sources aren't the best. Where they got their information doesn't hold up. However, see attachments 1, AN INTRODUCTION TO LACE by Gabrielle Pond. Scribner's, NY, 1973. p.40-41. attachment 2, LEGACY OF LACE ny Kathleen Warnick and Shirley Nilsson. Drown, NY, 1989. p.12. and thousands of hooks and crochets listed in the inventory of the belongings of Queen Mary I of England when returning to the court of her father, King Henry VIII. CALENDAR OF STATE PAPERS AND MANUSCRIPTS, RELATING TO ENGLISH AFFAIRS Existing in Archives and Collections of Venice, edited bhy Rawdon Brown and Allen B. Hinds. Vol. 38. Longman C,m Kibdibm 1864-1947. p.92 Aspasia Moonwind ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: Blackwork coif
I don't know how much embroidery you have done but if you are wanting a counted type pattern on the shirt, give a try at just eyeballing it :). I don't recommend this as the pattern could become way off. Also, a lot of the shirts, and the coifs, were not done in counted patterns but used a variety of stitches. Stem/outline stitch was very common. Holbein, or double running stitch is much more common outline stitch and more authentic for a simple design. For more elaborate designs braid stitch etc. If you aren't much of an embroider I recommend the Holbein.You can find good simple designs at www.blackworkarchives.comhttp://www.blackworkarchives.comand http://aeg.atlantia.sca.org/index.htm can give you patterns and refer you to other places. There is a referal page on each to sites with period patterns. There is a Blackwork group on Yahoo that also might be able to help. As stroll through the picture files will give you a lot of inspiration too. I recommend it. I'm a member. Also look at the photogallery for ideas. -- Aspasia Moonwind ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Blackwork coif
I'm not sure how to go about it with the coif. I have found several sites on how to make the coif but I'm not sure if I should do an outline of the coif pattern on the material then do the blackwork on the pre-cut coif. Draw the outline of the coif on the linen. It is one piece. Then put the embroidery design on the coif. If you are willing to use modern methods, cut out a piece of tracing paper in the shape of the coif and trace the developed design onto the paper with a transfer pencil and iron it on the outlined coif. Or if you want to be period, draw it on (cartooning) on draw it on butcher paper and poke holes in it and sprinkle charcoal in the holes. I recommend the first. Also, I've noticed that many of the fabric and craft stores (Michael's) has like 28 or 32 count pieces of linen - is this fabric okay to use for the coif or should I buy regular even weave linen fabric? You can use this, but I use medium weight even weave white linen. Either way, I line it with white linen. I basically have the same question for a man's shirt. I've figured out how to do the cuffs but not sure how to go about any other part of the shirt You can count threads on the coif and shirt, or on the shirt you can use waste canvas. Instructions come on the package and you can get it at Michael's. 14 count is the most common. That means 14 stitches to the inch, but you can get a higher count (smaller design.) Aspasia Moonwind ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
