Hi Heather,
I don't get on here much these days but this caught my eye because I
was pulling my hair out over it lately. I have seen, a couple of
manuscript images and I believe I might have at least one of them
*somewhere* of weavers actually weaving the diagonal stripes. But I
will be
Thanks for the lead. (The particular costuming project went in another
direction, but the theoretical question is still fascinating.) As you note,
the really problematic aspect for the bias cut is the lack of genealogy.
(There's a similar problem for that handful of Spanish bias-plaid
Considering that musicians are being depicted, and they were generally from
the lower classes, they may have worn recycled clothing that was cut and
re-pieced for performance.
___
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
umm, the link to an image didn't come across??
chimene
On Oct 20, 2010, at 9:47 PM, Heather Rose Jones wrote:
With the caveats that artistic representations aren't always intended to
represent actual clothing construction, and that representations of clothing
decoration are sometimes
Hmm, I seem to have failed at the paste part of the process:
http://www.huscarl.at/wissenschaft02.php
On Oct 21, 2010, at 1:07 AM, Patricia Dunham wrote:
umm, the link to an image didn't come across??
chimene
On Oct 20, 2010, at 9:47 PM, Heather Rose Jones wrote:
With the caveats
I think, that with stripes that wide, it was two different types of fabric
sewn together.
The one with points may be different, however.
My 2 cents
Genie B
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 8:51 AM, Heather Rose Jones
heather.jo...@earthlink.net wrote:
Hmm, I seem to have failed at the paste part of
-stripe
woven cloth.
-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Heather Rose Jones
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 6:51 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Opinions on Manesse Codex diagonal stripes
Hmm, I seem to have
Only a few years later, you find the infamous Spanish diagonal plaids.
http://jessamynscloset.com/plaid.html
They still don't answer the question of cut on the diagonal or woven that
way? but they don't seem to be an artistic convention for heraldry. They
could not be stripes tacked on
Sigh. Must reconstruct my thoughts, stupid e-mail program erased my message
when I hit send. I hate Microsoft.
Assuming the patterning isn't a matter of artistic license, I think this is a
combination of bias use of a woven stripe fabric, and piecework (constructing
fabric out of contrasting
At 07:15 AM 10/21/2010, you wrote:
My first thought is that it seems to be some sort of artistic painting
convention for depicting a party or performers. If you look at the stripes,
they don't follow the lines of the clothes or the body - they're painted on
in straight swaths, whether or not the
if it is allegorical or religious then the artist made up the garment. My
feeling is that if this were true then all medieval and renaissance artists
were fashion designers.
The Manesse drawings are simplistic and the artist does not have a full
grasp of fabric pattern draping.
The patterns can
HRJ,
Sorry dont know much about the Manesse Codex and the surrounding
culture or even much about the 14th c. I've been head-first into the
serving hall fashions of 1420-1440s Catalunya preparing for the
Perfectly Period Feast next month. There's a diagonal striped garment
here, as well. I'll
Heather
I have made a number of tunics on this general pattern, so I took the liberty
of interpreting the stripes as straight grain. The artist clearly does
accurately depict the actual clothing, although I think he does a fair job of
giving the general impression of the garments. However,
But there's a difference between _whether_ the art represents actual clothing
details and how _well_ it does so. The failure to represent how a design on
fabric would follow the folds of the fabric doesn't automatically imply that it
doesn't represent an actual fabric design. That aspect
On Oct 21, 2010, at 8:31 AM, Leah Janette wrote:
Only a few years later, you find the infamous Spanish diagonal plaids.
http://jessamynscloset.com/plaid.html
They still don't answer the question of cut on the diagonal or woven that
way? but they don't seem to be an artistic
On Oct 21, 2010, at 8:53 AM, Schaeffer, Astrida wrote:
Sigh. Must reconstruct my thoughts, stupid e-mail program erased my message
when I hit send. I hate Microsoft.
Assuming the patterning isn't a matter of artistic license, I think this is a
combination of bias use of a woven
Thank you all for your thoughts on this question -- it's been useful to see how
other people would analyze it. I think I've confirmed my opinion that the data
simply doesn't support a conclusion of bias cut at this particular time in this
particular context -- at least not sufficiently for my
Chiming in late, I'm afraid, but toss my reading into this camp:
On 10/20/2010 11:47 PM, Heather Rose Jones wrote:
Symbolic interpretation of armorial designs not intending to represent actual
garments?
I suppose the garments *could* be made by a variety of conjectured methods, as
others
What are people's thoughts on the garments depicted in the early 14th c.
Manesse
Codex that have diagonal striped designs?
Woven as diagonal stripes? Print? Woven as straight-grain stripes and cut
on
the bias? Symbolic interpretation of armorial
designs not intending to represent
/designer was doing.
Sincerely,
Rebecca Rautine
From: heather.jo...@earthlink.net
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 17:13:02 -0700
To: h-cost...@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Opinions on Manesse Codex diagonal stripes
On Oct 21, 2010, at 8:53 AM, Schaeffer, Astrida wrote:
Sigh. Must
On Oct 21, 2010, at 7:42 PM, Sunshine Buchler wrote:
What are people's thoughts on the garments depicted in the early 14th c.
Manesse
Codex that have diagonal striped designs?
Woven as diagonal stripes? Print? Woven as straight-grain stripes and cut
on
the bias? Symbolic
With the caveats that artistic representations aren't always intended to
represent actual clothing construction, and that representations of clothing
decoration are sometimes intended to convey symbolism rather than fabric
structures, and that there are multiple ways to create any particular
On 10/20/2010 9:47 PM, Heather Rose Jones wrote:
With the caveats that artistic representations aren't always intended to
represent actual clothing construction, and that representations of clothing
decoration are sometimes intended to convey symbolism rather than fabric
structures, and
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