Re: [h-cost] PhD programs in costume history
Congratulations Emma, what an exciting place to be. I would love to read your thesis. Is it available via interlibrary loan? Anyway, I know that the University of Minnesota has a program since I will probably wind up in it myself when I can get back to finishing my PhD. Good luck finding a school and don't let *anyone* pressure into starting your PhD before you're ready or you will burn-out faster than you can blink! Mind you, on the other hand, if you want to go to school now, don't wait if you don't have to. Just my two cents worth. Cheers, Danielle At 01:19 PM 8/16/2009, you wrote: I just defended my Master's thesis (on metal corsets-whee!) and during my defense, my committee challanged my idea that I should wait while my husband gets his PhD. They were all of the opinion that I need to get a PhD in costume history RIGHT NOW and I need to teach. So rather than my earlier plan of taking the next several years off before continuing my education, I'm starting to look at grad schools *now,* and I'm looking at costume history rather than museum studies. I'm not convinced that this is the route I want to take, but I'm willing to look. Do you, the minds of h-cost, with experience that spans both decades and the globe, have any recommendations? Are there schools you wished you knew about when you were younger? Schools friends or relatives have attended? Programs that are the stuff of fantasy (or, alternately, the stuff of nightmares, so I know what to avoid...)? I am interested in the study of costume and/or textile history, not necessarily theatre costuming (though I'm not opposed, if there's a spectacular program). Completely at a loss of what to do, now that the thesis is done, Emma ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] PhD programs in costume history
In a message dated 8/16/2009 8:26:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, f...@lavoltapress.com writes: Of course, but my point is, do they teach you about _antique_ silk processing in such programs? My sister-in-law certainly got no historical education--they gave her practical information that would enable her to get a good job in a modern factory. I certainly think, since many topics are fascinating, that the student has to made a decision as to whether they are going to graduate school strictly because they enjoy learning, or because they need the degree for a job after graduation; and that the courses they take should be chosen with that goal in mind. I can't speak for all programs. We did not, unfortunately, get as much hands-on textile conservation type training as we would have liked at Maryland. We expressed our concerns, and I think the faculty was preparing to include more, when our program was closed down. As for the other knowledge needed, that is where the support areas come in. One has all the departments on campus to choose from and, in our case, we could even take courses at other institutions in the Washington, DC, area. One graduate student I know at Cornell studied machine-made lace in the late 19th century for her master's and is now studying Renaissance era lace for her Ph.D. Ann Wass ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] PhD programs in costume history
My thesis isn't available *yet.* In addition to the thesis itself, I'm looking at breaking it up into a couple of smaller papers for submissions for presentation and/or publication various places. I'll keep the list posted. Don't worry, I'm not being pushed anywhere I don't want to be, it's just not somewhere I expected to go, *yet.* Emma From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [h-costume-boun...@indra.com] on behalf of Danielle Nunn-Weinberg [gilshal...@comcast.net] Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 1:38 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] PhD programs in costume history Congratulations Emma, what an exciting place to be. I would love to read your thesis. Is it available via interlibrary loan? Anyway, I know that the University of Minnesota has a program since I will probably wind up in it myself when I can get back to finishing my PhD. Good luck finding a school and don't let *anyone* pressure into starting your PhD before you're ready or you will burn-out faster than you can blink! Mind you, on the other hand, if you want to go to school now, don't wait if you don't have to. Just my two cents worth. Cheers, Danielle ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] PhD programs in costume history
Fibers are fibers--the natural fibers haven't changed--they are still chemically the same. Fabric structures, also, are, for the most part the same--weaving, knitting (even knitting machines go back quite a way in history), netting, felting. Even though my degree is in history, I took most of the courses in a university textile arts program, as well as most of the ones in two university clothing design programs (ready-to-wear and couture, respectively). As well as having studied costume history, reproduced historic costume, and collected antique clothing for over 35 years. I even do dyeing. Although it's not the main interest of my readers, I was so interested in the material on 1820s dyeing technology that I discovered, that I inserted some of it into _The Lady's Stratagem_. I've mostly been using Procion dyes, but my interest in natural dyeing was renewed (I dropped it after I finished taking textile arts) and I started to collect more old manuals on it. So yes, Ann, I have long known that plain weave is still plain weave, that stocking frames have a venerable history, etc. And I am sure that some textile technology programs are not designed entirely or mostly to cater to the student who wants a job in a modern factory. On the other hand, some programs apparently _do_. Therefore my suggestion is merely, that the student find the program tailored to his or her interests, both in terms of what he/she studies and his/her career goals--what he/she intends to do with the degree. College is a lot of fun, and if I had my way I'd be taking a course or two all the time, all my life. As it is, I have to settle for reading--which, at least, is also one of my favorite ways to learn. (In many ways, for many subjects, I personally find self-study preferable to classes.) The fact is, a degree is time consuming, and increasingly expensive. Therefore, it's a luxury to get one that does not lead to a paying career or to take time off from a paying career to get one. Even for the enjoyment aspect: When I was taking the series of courses in pattern design, etc. for ready-to-wear, I learned a lot. I produced historically inspired designs for every project, since that was my interest. (My goal was to produce historically inspired designs I could wear every day, I wasn't doing reenactment.) However, since that was not the goal of the program, I endured constant criticism, in particular from one instructor who was entirely unsympathetic to my tastes. And vice versa. I became fed up with her constant exhortations to imitate everyone else who was commercially successful, instead of trying to do something original. Pretty soon I let those exhortations go in one ear and out the other. I stuck with the program, I gained a great deal of valuable information, and I still use it regularly. But in retrospect, if I had been going to college to major in garment design, I'd have chosen another college. The instructors in my couture program, at a different college, were more sympathetic. For someone interested in old technology, a textile arts program--which in my experience focuses on hand weaving, spinning, and various other hand-done fiber-related techniques--might be a better choice, if the degree goal is fun and personal learning rather than a paying career. I am not, by any means, saying it is wrong to get a degree merely for personal learning and enjoyment. I'm just saying that it is a luxury the student should carefully consider from a career standpoint. Fran Lavolta Press New book on 1820s clothing! http://www.lavoltapress.com And while you are correct that SOME modern dyes are different, we learned about the basics, too, like indigo. In fact, I did my dissertation on the transition from natural to synthetic dyes in the mid-19th century. I had to know and understand where natural dyes came from and how they worked as a background for the early development of synthetic dyes. Not all programs are designed solely to prepare people for the modern textile industry. Ann Wass ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] PhD programs in costume history
I just defended my Master's thesis (on metal corsets-whee!) and during my defense, my committee challanged my idea that I should wait while my husband gets his PhD. They were all of the opinion that I need to get a PhD in costume history RIGHT NOW and I need to teach. So rather than my earlier plan of taking the next several years off before continuing my education, I'm starting to look at grad schools *now,* and I'm looking at costume history rather than museum studies. I'm not convinced that this is the route I want to take, but I'm willing to look. Do you, the minds of h-cost, with experience that spans both decades and the globe, have any recommendations? Are there schools you wished you knew about when you were younger? Schools friends or relatives have attended? Programs that are the stuff of fantasy (or, alternately, the stuff of nightmares, so I know what to avoid...)? I am interested in the study of costume and/or textile history, not necessarily theatre costuming (though I'm not opposed, if there's a spectacular program). Completely at a loss of what to do, now that the thesis is done, Emma ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] PhD programs in costume history
Congratulations on finishing your thesis! Going back to grad school after several years off can be hard; I did that with a Ph.D. in Renaissance Literature--never finished it. So, strike while the iron is hot, while you are current on scholarship, trends, and resources--please go on further to get your Ph.D. now. As for whether to do costume history or museum studies, try to determine whether your committee knows something you don't--for example, the projected demand for costume history jobs or museum jobs in the years 2012 beyond (likely the time you'll finish your Ph.D.) Or, are they pushing you towards costume history because they think you'd be more likely to excel there instead of museum work? Now, while the economy's so bad, being in a grad school can be a great place to be. Best of luck! Ramona ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] PhD programs in costume history
I believe Ohio State still has a viable program. My school, the University of Maryland, closed theirs down back in 1991 (boo, hiss!) I didn't get my Ph.D. until I was 41, but my husband was in the Navy, and I followed him around and worked retail for a few years after my master ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] PhD programs in costume history
Cornell also has a program. Ann Wass ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] PhD programs in costume history
Hey, and Cornell's on my husband's list of possible schools! Thank you. Emma From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [h-costume-boun...@indra.com] on behalf of annbw...@aol.com [annbw...@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 3:31 PM To: h-cost...@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] PhD programs in costume history Cornell also has a program. Ann Wass ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] PhD programs in costume history
I looked for an on-line PhD in Costume History due to my location/ schedule. I never found one. It is not a matter of WHEN you get your degree, it is important to DO it. I got my MA in 1976 in Theater with a specialization in costume. I spent 6 years as a costume designer in the theater, 24 on 7th Avenue as a designer, and I now teach fashion history and other aspects of fashion design, so no grass grew under my feet. There are so many great programs now I almost envy the students starting today. The PhD--- well, I am starting one in October. Creative Writing/ Distance Learning at Lancaster U. in England. I will have to suffer through the short residencies in the UK while I research my historical fiction-- and the clothes people wore. Poor me. :-) Monica -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of e...@huskers.unl.edu Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 4:40 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] PhD programs in costume history Hey, and Cornell's on my husband's list of possible schools! Thank you. Emma From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [h-costume-boun...@indra.com] on behalf of annbw...@aol.com [annbw...@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 3:31 PM To: h-cost...@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] PhD programs in costume history Cornell also has a program. Ann Wass ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] PhD programs in costume history
Emma, While I lack the costuming career myself, I can say this from experience: school. Sooner, not later. You lose traction. You forget stuff, or get involved in a goes-nowhere job. Make sure you have a good school. I made the mistake of continuing at my local univ. for a masters in history. The school was more than ready to take my money, but less than helpful about the degree's real worth (which was about nil, unless I wanted to teach). And I had NO idea at all that I might have jumped into a PhD program and skipped the MA entirely. My school would rather have had my money for the MA program, than lose me to another school's PhD program, which my school didn't even offer. In retrospect, my then-current school's counseling was bunk. == Marjorie Wilser, getting by, but career-free :) On Aug 16, 2009, at 1:39 PM, e...@huskers.unl.edu wrote: Hey, and Cornell's on my husband's list of possible schools! Thank you. Emma From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [h-costume-boun...@indra.com] on behalf of annbw...@aol.com [annbw...@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 3:31 PM To: h-cost...@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] PhD programs in costume history Cornell also has a program. Ann Wass ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] PhD programs in costume history
In a message dated 8/16/2009 4:40:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, e...@huskers.unl.edu writes: Cornell's on my husband's list of possible schools! Well, that is copacetic. Charlotte Jarousek teaches there. And Cornell has the advantage, for one in historic costume, of also having a strong textile science curriculum (or at least they did a few years ago). That was one of the strengths of the U. of Maryland program when it existed. Ann Wass ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] PhD programs in costume history
I know there are people who disagree, but, just as I think organic chemistry is necessary for pre-med students (and not just a flunk-out course, as I once heard someone describe it), I think a knowledge of textile chemistry is a real asset, if not an outright necessity, for students of historic costume. A knowledge of fibers, yarns, fabrics, dyes, and other finishes can only enhance your knowlege. Of course, the humanities are important, too. At Maryland, our core curriculum included textile science, textile economics, and (groan) statistics, and we chose two supporting areas. After a false start in theater (the dept. had just hired an new faculty member who I found wanting, and in fact she didn't stay past her three-year contract), I went with history and American studies. However, keep in mind that my undergraduate and master's degrees were both in home economics, so chemistry was always a given. But Monica, your literature program sounds like great fun. Ann Wass ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] PhD programs in costume history
annbw...@aol.com wrote: I know there are people who disagree, but, just as I think organic chemistry is necessary for pre-med students (and not just a flunk-out course, as I once heard someone describe it), I think a knowledge of textile chemistry is a real asset, if not an outright necessity, for students of historic costume. A knowledge of fibers, yarns, fabrics, dyes, and other finishes can only enhance your knowlege. Considering that modern technology has considerably affected fibers, dyes, and finishes, how useful is a modern course on same to someone only interested in historic costume? I am aware that even natural dyes, etc. have not been the same everywhere and everywhen. But if a modern course is largely devoted to synthetic fibers and the dyes for them, and modern processes, preparing students for practical careers in modern factories, how useful is it to the historian? My sister-in-law got a PhD in textile technology and then spent years as a successful manager in modern factories. She knows absolutely zip about period processes. She doesn't even understand how home sewers do things, just how factories do them. Fran Lavolta Press New book on 1820s clothing! http://www.lavoltapress.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] PhD programs in costume history
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [h-costume-boun...@indra.com] on behalf of Lavolta Press [f...@lavoltapress.com] Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 6:19 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] PhD programs in costume history Considering that modern technology has considerably affected fibers, dyes, and finishes, how useful is a modern course on same to someone only interested in historic costume? I am aware that even natural dyes, etc. have not been the same everywhere and everywhen. But if a modern course is largely devoted to synthetic fibers and the dyes for them, and modern processes, preparing students for practical careers in modern factories, how useful is it to the historian? -- For one thing, it can be fascinating. My department (University of Nebraska-Lincoln, Textiles, Clothing and Design) included designers, textile scientists, and costume/textile historians with or without an emphasis on quilt studies. The graduate seminar presentations on yarns spun from chicken feathers, or fibers derived from corn protein (fabulous hand, takes dye beautifully, dissolves in water) were fascinating, and anyone who's had an antique silk shatter in their hands would benefit from an understanding of silk post-processing. Even something as simple as understanding *why* you don't use buffered tissue with protein fibers makes it easier to understand *that* you don't use buffered tissue with protein fibers. I do have some science background, I'd just like to go further than my program was able to take me. Emma ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] PhD programs in costume history
And anyone who's had an antique silk shatter in their hands would benefit from an understanding of silk post-processing. Of course, but my point is, do they teach you about _antique_ silk processing in such programs? My sister-in-law certainly got no historical education--they gave her practical information that would enable her to get a good job in a modern factory. I certainly think, since many topics are fascinating, that the student has to made a decision as to whether they are going to graduate school strictly because they enjoy learning, or because they need the degree for a job after graduation; and that the courses they take should be chosen with that goal in mind. Fran Lavolta Press New book on 1820s clothing! http://www.lavoltapress.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
