Re: [Hardhats-members] M2Web installation (was: Fileman SEARCH frustration)

2006-01-15 Thread Jim Self
Kevin wrote: Well, I edited the entries in the httpd.conf so that all references to apache2 where removed or changed to httpd equivalents, and now it is starting. But when I browse to a default home page, I am gettting a GT.M compile error. Ooh! progress. :) this is undoubtedly a permissions

Re: [Hardhats-members] Apache configuration for M2Web (was: Fileman SEARCH frustration)

2006-01-15 Thread Jim Self
Kevin wrote: OK. I have just spent at least 2 hrs trying to get it working, and I have failed again. I don't have apache2. Not to worry. Apache2 is not necessary. It's just simpler to configure, especially on Debian where the configuration is much better modularized than on Redhat. I have

Re: [Hardhats-members] query tools (was: Fileman SEARCH frustration

2006-01-15 Thread Jim Self
Kevin wrote: I was working on importing FDA drug data, and I need to see if a given drug already exists in the database. But, because the names sometimes have slight differences in their names, I wanted to search based on ACTIVE INGREDIENTS. But it has been a few weeks, and the details are fuzzy

Re: [Hardhats-members] Attracting developers

2006-01-15 Thread James Gray
What is so horrible about the M language definition? Jim - Original Message - From: Kevin Toppenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 8:26 PM Subject: Re: [Hardhats-members] Attracting developers Motivate them. Either

Re: [Hardhats-members] Attracting developers

2006-01-15 Thread Gregory Woodhouse
On Jan 15, 2006, at 8:30 AM, James Gray wrote: What is so horrible about the M language definition? Jim What? Do you want a list? The shortcomings of the language definition shouldn't obscure the good points of the language, but in the past, when I've tried to point to problems with

[Hardhats-members] More problems after power outage

2006-01-15 Thread Marc Krawitz
I corrected the database problems based on the gt.m administration guide. Re-ran mupip integ and I received a clean report. However, when I start TaskMan, I get the following. What does this mean and how do I fix it. Thanks, Marc [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ gtm GTMD ^ZTMONChecking Taskman. Current

Re: [Hardhats-members] More problems after power outage

2006-01-15 Thread Gregory Woodhouse
On Jan 15, 2006, at 9:21 AM, Marc Krawitz wrote:I corrected the database problems based on the gt.m administration guide.  Re-ran mupip integ and I received a clean report.  However, when I start TaskMan, I get the following.  What does this mean and how do I fix it. Thanks, Marc[EMAIL

Re: [Hardhats-members] Language shootout: How would MUMPS fare?

2006-01-15 Thread Gregory Woodhouse
On Jan 15, 2006, at 8:58 AM, Gregory Woodhouse wrote: See http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/ BTW, I am *not* trying to incite a GT.M/Cache war here. Rather, I thought that if anyone was interested in implementing the benchmarks, it would be interesting to see how MUMPS fared when

Re: [Hardhats-members] More problems after power outage

2006-01-15 Thread Bhaskar, KS
My guess is that while database structural integrity is restored, there is invalid information in the database such as information about processes that no longer exist since they died with the crashing system. There must be a procedure in VistA to clean out this type of information. -- Bhaskar

Re: [Hardhats-members] More problems after power outage

2006-01-15 Thread Gregory Woodhouse
On Jan 15, 2006, at 10:27 AM, Bhaskar, KS wrote: My guess is that while database structural integrity is restored, there is invalid information in the database such as information about processes that no longer exist since they died with the crashing system. Right. It's liker cache

Re: [Hardhats-members] Attracting developers

2006-01-15 Thread Joseph Dal Molin
...perhaps the most strategic thing one could do to attract programmers is make it easy to work with VistA with other languages like Python etc. thus creating a much larger pool of programmers. The non gui components and platform portability of the client are key areas where non-M skills are

Re: [Hardhats-members] Attracting developers

2006-01-15 Thread Kevin Toppenberg
Usually BASIC is put forward as a bare minmum language. And as I now reflect, traditional Basic does have some of the same issues as M regarding globally-scoped variables. But Basic has been revamped so that today enterprise applications can be written in it. My biggest beefs with M would be

Re: [Hardhats-members] Attracting developers

2006-01-15 Thread Kevin Toppenberg
On 1/15/06, Joseph Dal Molin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...perhaps the most strategic thing one could do to attract programmers is make it easy to work with VistA with other languages like Python etc. thus creating a much larger pool of programmers. The non gui components and platform

Re: [Hardhats-members] Language shootout: How would MUMPS fare?

2006-01-15 Thread Kevin Toppenberg
I also am not looking for a flame war. Face it, I am spending a LOT of time coding in M. Why? Because it is getting the job done. And the proof is always in the pudding. I just wish it was chocolate pudding instead of bananna. :-) Kevin On 1/15/06, Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [Hardhats-members] More problems after power outage

2006-01-15 Thread Marc Krawitz
Okay - here are the logs. First from taskman and then from D ^XTER Timestamp Error Message--- TODAY 13:22:59 TEST+2^%ZTM3, Null subscripts are not allowed for region: DE FAULT,150373498,-%GTM-E-NULSUBSC [Caused by the

Re: [Hardhats-members] More problems after power outage

2006-01-15 Thread Gregory Woodhouse
On Jan 15, 2006, at 11:25 AM, Marc Krawitz wrote: Okay - here are the logs. First from taskman and then from D ^XTER Timestamp Error Message --- TODAY 13:22:59 TEST+2^%ZTM3, Null subscripts are not

Re: [Hardhats-members] Attracting developers

2006-01-15 Thread Gregory Woodhouse
On Jan 15, 2006, at 11:11 AM, Joseph Dal Molin wrote: ...perhaps the most strategic thing one could do to attract programmers is make it easy to work with VistA with other languages like Python etc. thus creating a much larger pool of programmers. The non gui components and platform

Re: [Hardhats-members] Attracting developers

2006-01-15 Thread James Gray
- Original Message - From: Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Jan 15, 2006, at 8:30 AM, James Gray wrote: What is so horrible about the M language definition? Jim What? Do you want a list? The shortcomings of the language definition shouldn't obscure the good points of

Re: [Hardhats-members] Attracting developers

2006-01-15 Thread Gregory Woodhouse
On Jan 15, 2006, at 11:11 AM, Joseph Dal Molin wrote: ...perhaps the most strategic thing one could do to attract programmers is make it easy to work with VistA with other languages like Python etc. thus creating a much larger pool of programmers. The non gui components and platform

Re: [Hardhats-members] Attracting developers

2006-01-15 Thread James Gray
- Original Message - From: Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Jan 15, 2006, at 11:14 AM, Kevin Toppenberg wrote: application programmer by trying to push as many variables as possible to the global frame. Such thinking is outmoded, and is not conducive to sound

Re: [Hardhats-members] Attracting developers

2006-01-15 Thread Gregory Woodhouse
On Jan 15, 2006, at 11:47 AM, James Gray wrote: I do not know the difference between the semantics of M and a formal semantics. Computer languages have (at least) two aspects: syntax and semantics. Syntax has to do with the form of statements and expressions. For example, MUMPS syntax

Re: [Hardhats-members] Attracting developers

2006-01-15 Thread Gregory Woodhouse
On Jan 15, 2006, at 11:47 AM, James Gray wrote: First I assumed that if someone says the language definition of M is horrible that it is meant globally. I don't think anyone said the language was horrible. Now, the *language definition*, that's something else. In once case, we're

Re: [Hardhats-members] Interleaving

2006-01-15 Thread Gregory Woodhouse
On Jan 14, 2006, at 11:40 PM, Jim Self wrote: Gregory wrote: How can you demonstrate the interleaving of jobs without disturbing it with explicit synchronization? JOB BODY(A) JOB BODY(B) where BODY is just a FOR loop BODY(X) ; FOR I=1:1:25 WRITE X QUIT But, of course that's not

RE: [Hardhats-members] New Developers, MUMPS language syntax, et al....

2006-01-15 Thread Cameron Schlehuber
If you haven't already, check out some of the companies that provide MUMPS programmers (see http://www.hardhats.org/links/Mlinks.html for a partial list of implementers of M and 3rd party M software and Services). Also for support of VistA, see http://www.hardhats.org/links/LINKSmain.html#MUMPS.

Re: [Hardhats-members] Interleaving

2006-01-15 Thread Kevin Toppenberg
How about writing to a global: +L set ^GLOBAL(^GLOBAL(0))=VALUE,^GLOBAL(0)=^GLOBAL(0)+1 -L Kevin On 1/15/06, Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In Scheme, I can have multiple threads writing to the same terminal, but not in MUMPS. True, I can have multiple terminals open and see

RE: [Hardhats-members] Attracting developers

2006-01-15 Thread Roy Gaber
Ask? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gregory Woodhouse Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 9:22 PM To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [Hardhats-members] Attracting developers How do you attract developers to work on projects

[Hardhats-members] Question about practice management systems

2006-01-15 Thread Marc Krawitz
Does anybody have any stats on current percentage use of practice management systems in physician practices (ideally grouped by physician group size)? Thanks, Marc

Re: [Hardhats-members] New Developers, MUMPS language syntax, et al....

2006-01-15 Thread Kevin Toppenberg
Stephen, I would tell prospective clients that if they want software that has shiny installers like Windows provides, and that can be supported by programmer chosen out of a phone book, then they can spend 10x more for a commercial package--and then be locked into that package. But if they are

Re: [Hardhats-members] Question about practice management systems

2006-01-15 Thread Kevin Toppenberg
My gut feeling is that 90+% of offices have PMs, because the filing of claims is nearly impossible without a PM. This is in contrast to about 15% of offices that have EMR's. The AAFP web site (www.aafp.org) has a link to its Family Practice Management magazine, which often explores such isues.

Re: [Hardhats-members] Apache configuration for M2Web (was: Fileman SEARCH frustration)

2006-01-15 Thread Kevin Toppenberg
Here are the two relevent files. httpd.conf -- found in /etc/httpd/conf/httpd.conf m2web.cgi -- found in /var/www/vista/m2weg.cgi I think that was it took. Kevin On 1/15/06, Jim Self [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you could send me your notes and working configuration files, I could review

Re: [Hardhats-members] New Developers, MUMPS language syntax, et al....

2006-01-15 Thread Joseph Dal Molin
Stephen, Rather than point someone to a discussion forum ...I would point your customers to the many vendors that employ MUMPS today in their applicationsEpic, Meditech, Quadramed, Eclipsys, Cerner, McKesson/HBOC (or whatever they go by today), IDX, Keane etc. Kaiser Permanante is

Re: [Hardhats-members] Attracting developers

2006-01-15 Thread Gregory Woodhouse
On Jan 15, 2006, at 4:30 PM, Roy Gaber wrote: Ask? What a radical idea! === Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. -- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Re: [Hardhats-members] New Developers, MUMPS language syntax, et al....

2006-01-15 Thread Stephen Hay
Thanks to all who responded, I feel a little better now. I guess part of the issue is that there are two issues, for me. One is easily addressed by pointing people to the vendors who are using MUMPS in their applications. But I'm really interested in the open source aspect... The other

Re: [Hardhats-members] Interleaving

2006-01-15 Thread Gregory Woodhouse
On Jan 15, 2006, at 4:28 PM, Kevin Toppenberg wrote: How about writing to a global: +L set ^GLOBAL(^GLOBAL(0))=VALUE,^GLOBAL(0)=^GLOBAL(0)+1 -L Kevin That won't work (because of the lock). What I'd like to do is, in some sense, the opposite of what you usually want to do with

Re: [Hardhats-members] New Developers, MUMPS language syntax, et al....

2006-01-15 Thread Gregory Woodhouse
On Jan 15, 2006, at 2:57 PM, Stephen Hay wrote: Hi, I came to this forum with the bright idea that VistA could be localised, would be ideal for implementation in developing countries, could be adapted to the New Zealand scenario and a whole lot of other things... One of the questions

Re: [Hardhats-members] New Developers, MUMPS language syntax, et al....

2006-01-15 Thread Gregory Woodhouse
On Jan 15, 2006, at 4:44 PM, Kevin Toppenberg wrote: Stephen, I would tell prospective clients that if they want software that has shiny installers like Windows provides, and that can be supported by programmer chosen out of a phone book, then they can spend 10x more for a commercial

Re: [Hardhats-members] New Developers, MUMPS language syntax, et al....

2006-01-15 Thread Gregory Woodhouse
On Jan 15, 2006, at 7:01 PM, Stephen Hay wrote: Thanks to all who responded, I feel a little better now. I guess part of the issue is that there are two issues, for me. One is easily addressed by pointing people to the vendors who are using MUMPS in their applications. But I'm really

Re: [Hardhats-members] Attracting developers

2006-01-15 Thread Gregory Woodhouse
On Jan 15, 2006, at 4:34 PM, Marc Krawitz wrote:Earlier in my career I mainly focused on technology which I perceived to be 'the latest greatest, coolest, etc.'.  However, after seeing about 80% of projects using such technology fail miserably, ...Is this a case of misplaced blame? Could it be

Re: [Hardhats-members] New Developers, MUMPS language syntax, et al....

2006-01-15 Thread Stephen Hay
I think I feeling much better... :-) Consistent with the invisible technology bit, my own work in modelling is rendering the invisible, visible. As with technology, organisational infrastructure only becomes apparent when it's not working... So, when we feel that it's not working, we need to

Re: [Hardhats-members] Re: Teaching and Learning

2006-01-15 Thread JohnLeoZimmer
Stephen Hay wrote: Joseph's and John's words reminded me of a course I once did with the World Health Organisation. Amazingly, I have the monograph in front of me, Educational Handbook for Health Personnel, J-J. Guilbert, 1992. Googling that title yields the text itself :-) with a good