Andy Georges schrieb:
one particular thing that we still lack is something like book
Haskell in
real world
We need a 'Dive into Haskell' book.
That's for later.
Getting those little annoyances out of the way (like those described on
defmacro) is far more important.
What you need so that
(Even clean has a simple GUI. Is it that hard to
provide a simple GUI like that to be installed by default?)
Why not provide two, that can be installed? Gtk2Hs and wxHaskell. You
can bundle them by default, or download them, the difference is
minimal.
In my humble opinion, in this context,
Hello Joachim,
Monday, December 11, 2006, 12:01:42 PM, you wrote:
one particular thing that we still lack is something like book
Haskell in real world
We need a 'Dive into Haskell' book.
* It's easy to find the relevant information. [OPEN]
what i mean is to fix this problem. there is lot
ma, 2006-12-11 kello 11:52 +1100, Donald Bruce Stewart kirjoitti:
http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Wanted_libraries
A good constructive list here will help focus developer efforts, and
someone may just step up with the code!
Hi Don,
I couldn't agree more on this :)
About 'Wanted' page:
Hello Nia,
Monday, December 11, 2006, 1:43:51 PM, you wrote:
since there are some implementation with graphic interface like Hugs. But
since Hugs is not a compiler but an interpreter, ones who are to develop
a real world application will hardly choose it.
i disagree. Hugs is very compatible
Hello isto,
Monday, December 11, 2006, 2:19:02 PM, you wrote:
About 'Wanted' page: would it be possible to easily have an
index being up-to-date reporting the activity status of each lib?
Either in this 'Wanted' page or somewhere else like in the
liblistpage.
Another thing somebody might
bulat.ziganshin:
Hello isto,
Monday, December 11, 2006, 2:19:02 PM, you wrote:
About 'Wanted' page: would it be possible to easily have an
index being up-to-date reporting the activity status of each lib?
Either in this 'Wanted' page or somewhere else like in the
liblistpage.
Lyle Kopnicky wrote:
The code below is using way more RAM than it should. It seems to only
take so long when I build the 'programs' list - the actual
reading/parsing is fast. For a 5MB input file, it's using 50MB of RAM!
Any idea how to combat this?
(ethereal voice)
... Children of Amaunator
Hi Bulat.
Ones who can handle and compile with GHC won't feel anything absurd working
with a console, CLI environment. They won't regard the lack of GUI as a
problem. But Kaveh does. It doesn't make sense that there would be anyone
who first develop in Hugs(deliberately not GHCi since it has no
On 12/11/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 08:18:44 +0100
From: Andy Georges [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Haskell-cafe] Aim Of Haskell
To: Haskell-cafe haskell-cafe@haskell.org
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Content-Type: text/plain;
It's not as if this is the first time that this has been suggested,
but some people have suggested that a practical book about Haskell
would be a good idea. I agree. Some people have also suggested that
the right moment for this hasn't arrived yet, and I see that as a
challenge.
I'm willing to
Bulat Ziganshin schrieb:
Hello Joachim,
Monday, December 11, 2006, 12:01:42 PM, you wrote:
one particular thing that we still lack is something like book
Haskell in real world
We need a 'Dive into Haskell' book.
* It's easy to find the relevant information. [OPEN]
what i mean is to fix
On 12/11/06, Nia Rium [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In my humble opinion, in this context, GUI doesn't mean a library to
implement a GUI application. It rather means an interpreter/compiler that
provides graphical interface.
Windows users can use Visual Haskell...
--
Taral [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You
On 12/11/06, Philippa Cowderoy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Only those who already have Visual Studio, no?
Yes, that is an unfortunate limitation.
--
Taral [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can't prove anything.
-- Gödel's Incompetence Theorem
___
Haskell-Cafe
On Fri, 8 Dec 2006, Dan Weston wrote:
1) Groups may only want to define addition. Why can't they use +
(instead of +, ?**+, or other such perversion)?
http://darcs.haskell.org/numericprelude/src/Algebra/Monoid.hs
2) Affine spaces have a (-) but no (+). Worse, the signature might be
(-)
In my opinion it would be important to increase the
understanding about semantics and processes. And
it would be good to introduce the concepts in a
similar way as Profokiev introduces the sound of
classical music in Peter and the Wolf. If my
suspicion is correct, functional programming would be
On 12/11/06, Patrick Mulder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In my opinion it would be important to increase the
understanding about semantics and processes. And
it would be good to introduce the concepts in a
similar way as Profokiev introduces the sound of
classical music in Peter and the Wolf. If my
Taral wrote:
On 12/11/06, Nia Rium [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In my humble opinion, in this context, GUI doesn't mean a library to
implement a GUI application. It rather means an interpreter/compiler
that
provides graphical interface.
Windows users can use Visual Haskell...
It's still in an
The way to write the book, I think, would be to take something
referred to as real world problems - problems a large proportion of
programmers deals with and gets paid for, and then show how to solve
these problems in Haskell (preferrably quicker and easier than with
conventional solutions).
I
Hi All,
I'm loving learning Haskell quite a bit.
It is stretching my brain but in a delightfull way.
I've googled, I've hoogled but I haven't found a clear explanation for
what exactly liftM2 does in the context below.
Using the cool lambdabot pointless utility I found out that:
\x - snd(x)
Hi Nicola,
Am Montag, den 11.12.2006, 17:15 +0100 schrieb Nicola Paolucci:
Using the cool lambdabot pointless utility I found out that:
\x - snd(x) - fst(x)
is the same as:
liftM2 (-) snd fst
I like the elegance of this but I cannot reconcile it with its type. I
can't understand
Quoth Nicola Paolucci, nevermore:
Prelude :t liftM2
Prelude liftM2 :: (Monad m) = (a1 - a2 - r) - m a1 - m a2 - m r
Can someone help me understand what's happening here ?
What does a Monad have to do with a simple subtraction ?
What is actually the m of my example ?
I'm honestly not sure
On 11/12/06, Nicola Paolucci [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi All,
I'm loving learning Haskell quite a bit.
It is stretching my brain but in a delightfull way.
I've googled, I've hoogled but I haven't found a clear explanation for
what exactly liftM2 does in the context below.
Using the cool
Nicola Paolucci [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Hi All,
I'm loving learning Haskell quite a bit.
It is stretching my brain but in a delightfull way.
I've googled, I've hoogled but I haven't found a clear explanation for
what exactly liftM2 does in the context below.
Using the cool lambdabot
On 11 Dec 2006 16:55:17 +, Jón Fairbairn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Nicola Paolucci [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Hi All,
I'm loving learning Haskell quite a bit.
It is stretching my brain but in a delightfull way.
I've googled, I've hoogled but I haven't found a clear explanation for
what
(to Kirsten, Akhmechet, cc: Haskell-Cafe)
I would divide the book into two parts. The first
part would introduce
Haskell via traditional small examples. Quick sort,
towers of Hanoi,
etc. The second part would have two or three large
examples -
something that people would relate to. I'd take
Hi Cale !
On 12/11/06, Cale Gibbard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The monad instance which is being used here is the instance for ((-)
e) -- that is, functions from a fixed type e form a monad.
So in this case:
liftM2 :: (a1 - a2 - r) - (e - a1) - (e - a2) - (e - r)
I bet you can guess what this
I'm loving learning Haskell quite a bit.
It is stretching my brain but in a delightfull way.
Great!
Using the cool lambdabot pointless utility I found out that:
\x - snd(x) - fst(x)
is the same as:
liftM2 (-) snd fst
Yes, the '(-) c' monad is very handy. One way to think about it is
Kirsten Chevalier wrote:
There's also excellent Haskell documentation available on the web
already, but people like to buy books and they like to have an
artifact that they can hold in their hands without getting laser
printer toner all over themselves.
It also helps to collect and edit.
[...] I think the concept of computer is better to
see as sort of telescope or translator. Computers
allow to look at processes (and complexity) which
would otherwise not conceivable to our limited minds.
The idea of computers as telescopes is from Daniel
Dennett though.
Computer Science is
I think there are some great ideas here, and it would be a fantastic
project to do as a community, via a wikibook. I, for one, have been
studying haskell for several months, and am just starting to see a
little bit of light when it comes to monads. I think it would be
beneficial to work through a
Joachim Durchholz schrieb:
Bulat Ziganshin schrieb:
Hello Joachim,
Monday, December 11, 2006, 12:01:42 PM, you wrote:
one particular thing that we still lack is something like book
Haskell in real world
We need a 'Dive into Haskell' book.
* It's easy to find the relevant information.
On Mon, 11 Dec 2006, Andrew Wagner wrote:
I think there are some great ideas here, and it would be a fantastic
project to do as a community, via a wikibook. I, for one, have been
studying haskell for several months, and am just starting to see a
little bit of light when it comes to monads. I
On 12/11/06, Andrew Wagner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think there are some great ideas here, and it would be a fantastic
project to do as a community, via a wikibook. I, for one, have been
studying haskell for several months, and am just starting to see a
little bit of light when it comes to
I was interested to read David Espinosa's Stratified Monads paper at
http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/~dae/papers/sm.ps.Z
I'm not sure I actually understand them properly yet, but I'm already
curious about if anybody's played with them in Haskell, or how useful
it would be to do so. Any comments?
--
A quick search turned up Lulu (http://www.lulu.com/).
From the Lulu site:
Publish and sell easily within minutes.
No set-up fees. No minimum order.
Keep control of the rights.
Set your own price.
Each product is printed as it is ordered.
No excess inventory.
Looks like they offer hardcover
On 12/11/06, Matt Revelle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
A quick search turned up Lulu (http://www.lulu.com/).
From the Lulu site:
Publish and sell easily within minutes.
No set-up fees. No minimum order.
Keep control of the rights.
Set your own price.
Each product is printed as it is ordered.
No
Well, perhaps if nothing else, we could use a wikibook to
collaboratively work on the structure of such a book, and then from
that you could publish a real book. I don't really know the legal
issues, though. I am thinking of several books though which have been
written and released both as full
On 12/11/06, Andrew Wagner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well, perhaps if nothing else, we could use a wikibook to
collaboratively work on the structure of such a book, and then from
that you could publish a real book. I don't really know the legal
issues, though. I am thinking of several books
What do you mean by real publisher? As long as the quality of the
final product is good, does it really matter what publishing company
has their name stamped on it?
I'm not sure about Lulu and distribution, but there's also BookSurge
(http://www.booksurge.com) which is owned by Amazon. From
On 12/11/06, Matt Revelle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What do you mean by real publisher? As long as the quality of the
final product is good, does it really matter what publishing company
has their name stamped on it?
It matters to me; if I'm going to put work into this, then that's what
I
As far as I know, the stratified monads are recognized as monad
transformers in Haskell. The predominant library is the Monad
Transformer Library (or mtl) coded by Andy Gill, see [1].
One of my favorite examples of the usefulness of monad transformers is
for building domains for denotational
On 12/11/06, Mark T.B. Carroll [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm not sure I actually understand them properly yet, but I'm already
curious about if anybody's played with them in Haskell, or how useful
it would be to do so. Any comments?
Haskell implementations of the transformers in Espinosa's
Well, I'm not opposed at all to a written final form. I guess I just
don't see that and using a wikibook to assist in our collaboration as
mutually exclusive. Anyway, I'd love to help in any such project. By
the way, I seem to be messing up the threads. What is considered the
correct way to reply
On 12/11/06, Andrew Wagner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well, I'm not opposed at all to a written final form. I guess I just
don't see that and using a wikibook to assist in our collaboration as
mutually exclusive.
I think the confusion is my fault. I assumed that you (if it was you
who originally
I have taken the liberty to read into the definition of practical
Haskell; if I'm off target let me know so I can tweak my claims to
fit whatever it is I thought I was discussing ;).
Two cents:
1) This wouldn't be the first book introducing functional programming
to imperative programmers. It
Hi All, Hi Cale,
Can you tell me if I understood things right ? Please see below ...
On 12/11/06, Cale Gibbard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The monad instance which is being used here is the instance for ((-)
e) -- that is, functions from a fixed type e form a monad.
So in this case:
liftM2 ::
On 11 Dec 2006, at 19:35, Kirsten Chevalier wrote:
On 12/11/06, Andrew Wagner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well, perhaps if nothing else, we could use a wikibook to
collaboratively work on the structure of such a book, and then from
that you could publish a real book. I don't really know the
Since people keep saying the word wikibook, I will make the obligatory
mention of http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Haskell
It might not yet have the style/voice/sense of direction that we're
discussing here, but maybe people might be interested in shaping that
book into something really interesting?
Sorry, wasn't sure I had clearly expressed that it's possible to have
an open book end up as a dead-tree book.
Either way, I'm interested in helping.
On 12/11/06, Kirsten Chevalier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It matters to me; if I'm going to put work into this, then that's what
I want the
The interpreter infers that m = (e -) because of the types of snd and fst.
When snd and fst are considered as monadic computations in the (e -)
monad, there types are:
Prelude :t fst
fst :: (a, b) - a
Prelude :t snd
snd :: (a, b) - b
Note that: (a, b) - a =~= m awhere m x = (a,b) - x
So
Ok, well I think we can all agree that such a book is a good idea. I
suggest we take the discussion to some kind of collaboration tool.
It's pretty hard to do just on this mailing list. There are a lot of
options, such as finding a forum somewhere, creating a wiki book
somewhere and having a
On Mon, 2006-12-11 at 13:42 -0600, Nicolas Frisby wrote:
Two cents:
Two (Croatian) lipas, much less than two cents :-(
3) This would be the first book introducing the nuances of large
systems development in Haskell to Haskell programmers. Explaining well
various monads (e.g. how to use
On Tuesday 12 December 2006 08:57, Nicola Paolucci wrote:
- How do I know - or how does the interpreter know - that the m of
this example is an instance of type ((-) e) ?
- Is it always like that for liftM2 ? Or is it like that only because
I used the function (-) ?
It's the snd that forces
On 12/11/06, Kirsten Chevalier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It's not as if this is the first time that this has been suggested,
but some people have suggested that a practical book about Haskell
would be a good idea. I agree. Some people have also suggested that
the right moment for this hasn't
On 12/11/06, Andrew Wagner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Ok, well I think we can all agree that such a book is a good idea. I
suggest we take the discussion to some kind of collaboration tool.
It's pretty hard to do just on this mailing list. There are a lot of
options, such as finding a forum
On 12/11/06, Nicola Paolucci [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I am trying to understand this bit by bit I am sorry if this is either
very basic and easy stuff, or if all I wrote is completely wrong and I
did not understand anything. :D Feedback welcome.
Don't apologise - I, for one, am finding this
Hi Sebastian. As a writer of one of those "academic" Haskell
textbooks, I've been following this thread with some interest. In
fact, I agree with pretty much everything that's been said. But I must
point out that, even though Chapter 18 in SOE is titled "Higher Order
Types", and that's where I
I'm an Oracle DBA, and I have been looking at Haskell with interest
for a long while now. But I don't feel particularly that I could use
it in my day job, mainly because I can't seem to find a nice, simple
way of doing (Oracle) database access in Haskell.
What I'm after is very simple - I want
On 12/11/06, Paul Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I've looked at the various database access libraries for Haskell, but
they all seem to be missing a couple of key pieces if I want to use
them:
1. Simple documentation of how to install the library (starting from a
vanilla GHC installation on
Hello,
I am trying to rewrite some older (2001) haskell :
myReadFile :: String - String
myReadFile f = case hugsIORun (readFile f) of
Right s - s
Left _ -
Can someone provide me with a up to date version of the above
bit of code without using code from the
I think this might be a good time to step back and make some general
comments of my own.
I learned Haskell in the summer of 2000. I see that that's exactly
when SOE was published. I didn't have a copy. (I did acquire a copy of
SOE about two years later, when I didn't need it anymore :-) I did
On 12/11/06, Kirsten Chevalier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This is when you write that documentation :-) And I say that without
knowing anything about any of the Haskell database libraries -- I just
suspect that if you can't find any good documentation for them, that's
your cue to write it.
On 12/11/06, Paul Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The point I was trying (badly!) to make was that without sample code
on how to do trivial queries, I can't work out which library is
closest to what I want. And without installation instructions, I can't
try them out.
Well, if anyone has that
On 12/11/06, Paul Hudak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi Sebastian. As a writer of one of those academic Haskell textbooks,
I've been following this thread with some interest. In fact, I agree with
pretty much everything that's been said. But I must point out that, even
though Chapter 18 in SOE
G'day all.
Quoting Kirsten Chevalier [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
I suppose I should have clarified that I meant a dead-trees book with
a real publisher, [...]
Something more like this, then:
http://phptr.com/perens
Maybe we should come up with an outline and a sample chapter or two, then
talk to
On 12/11/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
G'day all.
Quoting Kirsten Chevalier [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
I suppose I should have clarified that I meant a dead-trees book with
a real publisher, [...]
Something more like this, then:
http://phptr.com/perens
Maybe we should come up
On 12/11/06, Kirsten Chevalier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Don't apologize; you're not being dumb. But, you have to realize that
if you're using Haskell at all, you *are* the Haskell community.
OK, thanks for the gentle push. After a bit of digging, I decided that
the takusen link looked like a
Now you're getting somewhere! (Even though it may not seem like it.)
At this point, this is probably a better place to ask:
http://www.haskell.org/cabal/
In particular, it says where to ask questions. I haven't used Cabal
much myself and I suspect that the people who know about Cabal are
more
On 12/11/06, Paul Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
F:\cabal-1.1.6.1runhaskell Setup.lhs install
Installing: C:\Program Files\Haskell\Cabal-1.1.6.1\ghc-6.6
C:\Program Files\Haskell\bin Cabal-1.1.6.1...
Setup.lhs: Error: Could not find module: Distribution.Compiler with any suffix:
[hi]
The magic
Paul Moore on 2006-12-11 22:46:44 +:
What I *can* do, is to attempt to install one of the libraries that
looks closest to what I want (probably HDBC, because I'm familiar with
the Python DB-API). But I honestly have little or no idea how to start
- following the HDBC link on the Haskell
On Mon, Dec 11, 2006 at 11:25:59PM +, Paul Moore wrote:
On 12/11/06, Kirsten Chevalier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Don't apologize; you're not being dumb. But, you have to realize that
if you're using Haskell at all, you *are* the Haskell community.
OK, thanks for the gentle push. After a
Hi,
I wonder if a similar theme is apropriate for proposed book.
Graphics and sounds give a very direct feedback to the programmer, and
I expect that helps with the motivation.
Perhaps a single largish application could be the end product of the
book. Like a game or something. You'd start off
the typical good solution to this problem in c or c++ is to use a
string reverse function on the entire buffer, then re-reverse each
word. this leaves multiple spaces correctly embedded in the larger
string.
that approach, of course, won't work in haskell, since it relies on
updates. but if the
Hi Nicolas,
On 12/11/06, Nicolas Frisby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The interpreter infers that m = (e -) because of the types of snd and fst.
When snd and fst are considered as monadic computations in the (e -)
monad, there types are:
Prelude :t fst
fst :: (a, b) - a
Prelude :t snd
snd :: (a,
On Dec 11, 2006, at 18:48 , Steve Downey wrote:
the typical good solution to this problem in c or c++ is to use a
string reverse function on the entire buffer, then re-reverse each
word. this leaves multiple spaces correctly embedded in the larger
string.
that approach, of course, won't work
Lyle Kopnicky wrote:
The code below is using way more RAM than it should. It seems to only
take so long when I build the 'programs' list - the actual
reading/parsing is fast. For a 5MB input file, it's using 50MB of RAM!
Any idea how to combat this?
1) I strongly recommend to work through at
Joachim Durchholz wrote:
These activities are among the major reasons why I'm finally prepared to
get my feet wet with Haskell after years of interested watching.
I'll probably fire off a set of newbie questions for my project, though
it might still take a few days to get them organized well
Hi Steve,
On 12/11/06, Steve Downey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
transforming one two three four into four three two
one, how could this be done?
This is a good problem for
Parsechttp://www.cs.uu.nl/%7Edaan/download/parsec/parsec.html
:
import Text.ParserCombinators.Parsec
if you're using Haskell at all, you *are* the Haskell community.
[..lots of I searched, I found, I tried, I got this error, I thought,
I tried this workaround, I got to this point, now I'm stuck here..]
I just wanted to comment that I find this kind of experience report
very helpful,
Hello,
1. Simple documentation of how to install the library (starting from a
vanilla GHC installation on Windows, plus Oracle software, to the
point where I can use the library in my code). All I need is Oracle
access, so other database client libraries can be ignored. I'd rather
not use ODBC,
Hi all,
I'm considering the use of Haskell to manipulate large data
structures for Computer Graphics (large geometric datasets). I'm
wondering what's the best way to do it. As objects (not in the OO
sense) in Haskell are immutable, how can I add a vertex to a large
mesh without using obscene
Sebastian Sylvan wrote:
Perhaps a single largish application could be the end product of the
book. Like a game or something. You'd start off with some examples
early on, and then as quickly as possible start working on the low
level utility functions for the game, moving on to more and more
On Mon, Dec 11, 2006 at 10:27:44PM -0300, Alex Queiroz wrote:
Hi all,
I'm considering the use of Haskell to manipulate large data
structures for Computer Graphics (large geometric datasets). I'm
wondering what's the best way to do it. As objects (not in the OO
sense) in Haskell are
Hallo,
On 12/11/06, Stefan O'Rear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
No. Haskell's lists are linked lists, enlarge creates a single new link
without modifying (and copying) the original.
___
Thanks. Is there a way to mimic this behaviour with my own
No. Haskell's lists are linked lists, enlarge creates a single new link
without modifying (and copying) the original.
Thanks. Is there a way to mimic this behaviour with my own code?
Yes. Take a look at Data.Map. This data structure provides various
operations which create a new map from
Alex Queiroz wrote:
On 12/11/06, Stefan O'Rear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
No. Haskell's lists are linked lists, enlarge creates a single new link
without modifying (and copying) the original.
Thanks. Is there a way to mimic this behaviour with my own code?
It is the default for any data
On 12/12/2006, at 11:13 AM, Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH wrote:
On Dec 11, 2006, at 18:48 , Steve Downey wrote:
the typical good solution to this problem in c or c++ is to use a
string reverse function on the entire buffer, then re-reverse each
word. this leaves multiple spaces correctly
hello,all,
I am new to haskell,and have read some tutorial, but I would like to read
some real code from real haskell project, I believe this will help me
study and use haskell quickly.
would anyone please give me some suggestion about opensource project that
a new haskell user should study?
Hello, fellow Haskellers!
jcreigh, from #haskell, has found a great set of exercises to work
through. Check out the new wiki pages indexed at
http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/99_Haskell_exercises . These have all
been done in lisp, but of COURSE they can be done at least as well in
Haskell, if not
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Issue 53 - December 12, 2006
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