Mark Post wrote:
On Tue, Feb 19, 2008 at 8:37 AM, in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED], Paul Gilmartin
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
-snip-
Now I'm confused. I've seen flat denials among these lists from IBM
employees that IBM's HTTPD is Apache-derived. But which HTTPD? So:
o How many HTTP servers
Apps While Still in
Development
re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008d.html#58 Linux zSeries questions
and past posts mentioning c-language programming environment proclivity
for buffer overflows
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#overflow
The common cold of IT security
http
On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 14:22:51 +0100, Ulrich Boche [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
And, of course, WAS is not only J2EE, that's only the business logic
part of WAS. For the presentation logic portion of WAS you'll need a web
server (if you want to run it on z/OS, for that matter).
You seem to be
According to the WebSphere InfoCenter
(http://publib.boulder.ibm.com/infocenter/wasinfo/v6r1/index.jsp?topic=/com.ibm.websphere.ihs.doc/info/ihs/ihs/welc6miginstallihsz.html
):
quote
Note: IBM HTTP Server for z/OS, which is provided with WebSphere Application
Server, is different from the Version
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 02/19/2008
at 06:45 AM, Phil Smith III [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Now that I don't understand. The From: is clear,
The From doesn't tell the recipient that you sent another copy to the
list.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
ISO position; see
it more than git.
Linus
-Ursprungligt meddelande-
Från: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] För Mark S. Waterbury
Skickat: den 18 februari 2008 21:03
Till: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Ämne: Re: Linux zSeries questions
C++ is a low-level language
Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
No, it's common discourtesy to cc them, unless you know that they want two
copies.
I guess this is yet another netiquette issue that has no objective answer. I
could cite multiple cases of lists I'm on where it's considered courtesy, but
you
On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 16:23:06 +0900, Timothy Sipples wrote:
Other bits I'd take an educated guess (without inside knowledge) that are
largely or entirely C and/or C++:
- the IBM HTTP Server for z/OS (including the Apache-derived one shipping
with WebSphere Application Server V6.1 for z/OS)
Now
.
Larry Gray
Large Systems Engineering
Lowe's Companies
336-658-7944
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 8:38 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: HTTPD Roots (was: Linux zSeries questions
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 02/18/2008
at 01:09 PM, Mark S. Waterbury [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
BSL was the first version of IBM's internal HLL for systems programming.
BSL is to PL/S as PL/S is to PL/X.
Correct.
AFAIK, OS/360 PCP, MFT and MVT were developed almost entirely in BAL.
ITYM
Paul Gilmartin wrote:
[...]
Now I'm confused. I've seen flat denials among these lists from IBM
employees that IBM's HTTPD is Apache-derived. But which HTTPD? So:
o How many HTTP servers does IBM supply for z/OS?
AFAIK two or three.
IMWEB which is part of z/OS base
WAS (websphere) which
On Tue, Feb 19, 2008 at 8:37 AM, in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED], Paul Gilmartin
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
-snip-
Now I'm confused. I've seen flat denials among these lists from IBM
employees that IBM's HTTPD is Apache-derived. But which HTTPD? So:
o How many HTTP servers does IBM supply
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 02/17/2008
at 02:07 PM, Alan Altmark [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
To the extent that machine-level instructions are present in open code
(similar to PL/X GENERATE), they are there because they are doing things
that the compiler cannot do. This is true on ANY operating
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 02/17/2008
at 12:06 PM, Rick Fochtman [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
From what I've seen in looking at various bits and pieces of source
code, PL/S or its replacement(s) have been most heavily used in the MVS
code; not so much in OS/360, except SMP.
Do you count BSL as
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 02/16/2008
at 01:59 PM, Scott Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
But what is really interesting is that all scripting languages are
similar
I see sharp divisions among scripting languages, the most striking of
which is the way that they handle variable substitution.
--
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 02/16/2008
at 08:46 AM, Phil Smith III [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Nothing misconfigured here: I explicitly CCed you, and you replied to the
CC, not to the list copy. With Digested list delivery widespread, it's
common courtesy to CC folks
No, it's common discourtesy to
--snip-
From what I've seen in looking at various bits and pieces of source
code, PL/S or its replacement(s) have been most heavily used in the MVS
code; not so much in OS/360, except SMP.
Do you count BSL as being PL/S? It was heavily used in OS/360,
BSL was the first version of IBM's internal HLL for systems programming.
BSL is to PL/S as PL/S is to PL/X.
AFAIK, OS/360 PCP, MFT and MVT were developed almost entirely in BAL. It
was not until well into the evolution of MVT that BSL was first used for
much of TSO and some other utilities.
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 3:47 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Linux zSeries questions
[snip]
I don't believe it runs on a MAC, yet.
[snip]
Linux most
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Timothy Sipples
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 12:16 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Linux zSeries questions
FWIW, there's a fair (and increasing) amount of z/OS written
On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 11:59:08 -0600, McKown, John wrote:
-Original Message-
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Timothy Sipples
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 12:16 AM
FWIW, there's a fair (and increasing) amount of z/OS written
in C and/or
C++. The SDK for Java immediately
Now, does anybody know if C or C++ is used in the kernal of z/OS?
When I first took a C++ course, I was told that it should not be used to write
operating systems (too slow).
But, I would like to know if C is used in the 'kernal'.
-
Too busy driving to stop for gas!
C++ is a low-level language comparable to C, being only slightly
higher-level than assembler or machine language. So, there is no
technical reason why parts of an OS kernel (even the z/OS nucleus) could
not be written in C++.
It is well-documented that when IBM transitioned the AS/400 from
McKown, John wrote:
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Timothy Sipples
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 12:16 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Linux zSeries questions
FWIW, there's a fair (and increasing) amount of z
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thomas David Rivers
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 2:27 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Linux zSeries questions
[snip]
I can say without fear of contridiction, but at the same
C++ is a low-level language comparable to C, being only slightly higher-level
than assembler or machine language. So, there is no technical reason why parts
of an OS kernel (even the z/OS nucleus) could
not be written in C++.
Since C++ is the object oriented language and C is the procedural
C++ was intentionally developed by grafting on OO concepts to C, while
still keeping the language at essentially the same level. In other
words, you can still do pretty much the same kinds of low-level things
in C++ that you could do in C. The main difference is, you can also use
the OO
On Mon, 2008-02-18 at 11:59 -0600, McKown, John wrote:
Now, does
anybody know if C or C++ is used in the kernal of z/OS? How about the
OMVS kernel?
The kernel is in C - with assembler for the performance critical bits.
I've posted before about Linus derisive comments on suggestions of C++
On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:26:37 -0500, Thomas David Rivers
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Also - you may want to look at z/VM; some of its kernel is written
in C too. I believe if you have access to the z/VM source (I'm
not sure if that's still made available) you'll find it.
I can confirm that there
Yes, the various C/C++ compiler enhancements (Metal C, graphical workbench
support in Rational Developer for System z, improved debugging, etc.) that
recently shipped aren't only for external use. Although please enjoy them,
too.
Other bits I'd take an educated guess (without inside knowledge)
On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 18:00:23 -0600, Ed Gould wrote:
(apparently quoting himself)
On Feb 15, 2008, at 7:44 AM, Phil Smith III wrote:
The good news is, it's worth the trouble...
You mean, such as unrestricted 64-bit capability?
If the ruse of LINUX is to re-write MVS (to start over but with a
-snip
Mark Post wrote:
On Sat, Feb 16, 2008 at 5:14 PM, in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED], Ed Gould
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
-A whole mess of drivel completely out of touch with reality-
Sad to see that his general level of coherency and
--snip--
BTW does anyone know how many people are in digest mode? I have been on
a few lists in digest and never noticed a separate CC was needed.
--unsnip---
It's not needed; it's a small courtesy that many in digest mode
The following message is a courtesy copy of an article
that has been posted to bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers as well.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Rick Fochtman) writes:
IMHO, the programming language, whether for applications or operating
systems, is unimportant, PROVIDED that all the
metal far
outperformed their beloved Assembler programs on the emulated
hardware. The vendor would need to cover its collective ears and
encourage the customers to migrate to better technology.
re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008d.html#47 Linux zSeries questions
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn
On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 21:11:53 -0600, Ed Gould
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Its been IBM's mode of writing OS code since OS/360 and if I am not
to far off some version of PLS has been responsible for every release
of OS/360 all the way up to Z/os . of course if ita not done in PLx
it was written in
On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 21:11:53 -0600, Ed Gould
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Its been IBM's mode of writing OS code since OS/360 and if I am not
to far off some version of PLS has been responsible for every release
of OS/360 all the way up to Z/os . of course if ita not done in PLx
it was written in
-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Linux zSeries questions
On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 21:11:53 -0600, Ed Gould
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Its been IBM's mode of writing OS code since OS/360 and if I am not
to far off some version of PLS has been responsible for every release
of OS/360 all the way up to Z/os
Ted MacNEIL wrote:
On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 21:11:53 -0600, Ed Gould
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I don't believe it runs on a MAC, yet.
Just as F.Y.I.:
Linux does and has run MAC's. The most recent non-Intel MAC's are Power
based. Here is document from IBM about Linux on MAC from 2004.
On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 18:27:56 -0600 Ed Gould said:
But to your answer thats fine but IBM is not doing real education (ie
assembler) or any other low level language in colleges (to the best
of my knowledge). How else do you think these future people will
support LINUX? PLX? hahaha IBM does *NOT*
FWIW, there's a fair (and increasing) amount of z/OS written in C and/or
C++. The SDK for Java immediately leaps to mind as an example.
- - - - -
Timothy Sipples
IBM Consulting Enterprise Software Architect
Specializing in Software Architectures Related to System z
Based in Tokyo, Serving IBM
The following message is a courtesy copy of an article
that has been posted to bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers as well.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Elliott, IBM) writes:
You are full of it. Linux is written in C, not COBOL or Assembler. Also,
there is not a different version of Linux
Jim Elliott, (referring to Ed G) wrote:
You are full of it.
No argument so far ...
Linux is written in C, not COBOL or Assembler.
Mmmm - go look at the mm (memory management) code; sufficient (in-line)
assembler there.
Cobol ??? - wtf !!!. Linus goes ballistic when anyone asks about C+ ...
Scott Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Phil,
I learned VM and CICS by reading IBM's source code..no issue here, made me a
Better sysprog...
Absolutely; I've made a career out of source-level CP and CMS mods and fixes.
In no way was I intending to disparage the use of source -- rather, I was
Ed Gould [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Apparently Phil has a problem with a misconfigured email client and
the reply went to him rather than the group. I have since reshipped
the reply to the group.
Ed:
Nothing misconfigured here: I explicitly CCed you, and you replied to the CC,
not to the list
,
reading the source isn't usually what you want to have to do.
re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008d.html#47 Linux zSeries questions
a little source x-over from zVM mailing list
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008d.html#42 VM/370 Release 6 Waterloo tape (CIA
MODS)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008d.html
Subject: Re: Linux zSeries questions
Scott Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Phil,
I learned VM and CICS by reading IBM's source code..no issue here, made me
a
Better sysprog...
Absolutely; I've made a career out of source-level CP and CMS mods and
fixes. In no way was I intending to disparage the use
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Linux zSeries questions
On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 18:27:56 -0600, Ed Gould [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
In order to read source you must understand the language teaching
people COBOL does not qualify them to read a source level OS (unless
its written in COBOL ((thank heaven
On Feb 16, 2008, at 1:21 AM, Jim Elliott, IBM wrote:
On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 18:27:56 -0600, Ed Gould
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In order to read source you must understand the language teaching
people COBOL does not qualify them to read a source level OS (unless
its written in COBOL ((thank
On Sat, Feb 16, 2008 at 5:14 PM, in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED], Ed Gould
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
-A whole mess of drivel completely out of touch with reality-
Sad to see that his general level of coherency and intelligence hasn't risen
any over the last 6-7 years.
On Feb 16, 2008, at 1:21
On Feb 16, 2008, at 7:46 AM, Phil Smith III wrote:
Ed Gould [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Apparently Phil has a problem with a misconfigured email client and
the reply went to him rather than the group. I have since reshipped
the reply to the group.
Ed:
Nothing misconfigured here: I explicitly
Ed Gould [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Can I ask an innocent(?) question here.. LINUX is it documented like
MVS or something like early 360 (YES 360) manuals ?
I do not have access to any of them to see.
Linux is Open Source, and as such is documented to whatever standard someone
felt like. This
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Ford
Sent: Saturday, 16 February 2008 8:52 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Linux zSeries questions
Seymour,
I also use a lot of Linux including Redhat and Fedora. I
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Linux zSeries questions
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Ford
Sent: Saturday, 16 February 2008 8:52 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Linux zSeries questions
Seymour
@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Linux zSeries questions
Ed Gould [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Can I ask an innocent(?) question here.. LINUX is it documented like
MVS or something like early 360 (YES 360) manuals ?
I do not have access to any of them to see.
Linux is Open Source, and as such is documented
On Feb 15, 2008, at 7:44 AM, Phil Smith III wrote:
Ed Gould [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Can I ask an innocent(?) question here.. LINUX is it documented like
MVS or something like early 360 (YES 360) manuals ?
I do not have access to any of them to see.
Linux is Open Source, and as such is
On Feb 15, 2008, at 5:35 PM, Scott Ford wrote:
Phil,
I learned VM and CICS by reading IBM's source code..no issue here,
made me a
Better sysprog...
Regards,
Scott
IDF
Scott:
Apparently Phil has a problem with a misconfigured email client and
the reply went to him rather than the
On Fri, 2008-02-15 at 18:35 -0500, Scott Ford wrote:
I learned VM and CICS by reading IBM's source code..no issue here, made me a
Better sysprog...
And I'm trying to likewise with the (open source) Linux kernel source.
The difference this time is that if I get fed up/discouraged/pissed
off ...
On Sat, 2008-02-16 at 09:13 +1100, Stephen Mednick wrote:
As the screen was re-booting in front of me I could see all these LINUX
messages
pop-up. When he came back to my seat to check if everything was ok I commented
about the usage of LINUX. He said that they're using the free downloadable
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shane
Sent: Saturday, 16 February 2008 11:19 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Linux zSeries questions
On Sat, 2008-02-16 at 09:13 +1100, Stephen Mednick wrote
On Sat, 2008-02-16 at 09:13 +1100, Stephen Mednick wrote:
I didn't dare want to know if it was the free LINUX that was
also managing the flight control systems for the A380 itself!!
I knew I'd seen this somewhere; found it just after I'd posted.
Here's one on the new 767 -
In bit.listserv.ibm-main, Miklos Szigetvari wrote:
- I would need a good newsgroup for Linux questions
- Can we start zLinux under VM without IFL processors ?
Others have answered these two, but I didn't see any address this one:
- Where can I found the IPL wait state codes for zLinux ?
The
: Linux zSeries questions
On Feb 15, 2008, at 5:35 PM, Scott Ford wrote:
Phil,
I learned VM and CICS by reading IBM's source code..no issue here,
made me a
Better sysprog...
Regards,
Scott
IDF
Scott:
Apparently Phil has a problem with a misconfigured email client and
the reply went
Alan Altmark writes:
However, you will pay z/VM and Linux middleware license fees based on the
total number of CPs, even if you have just one LPAR with one logical CPU.
Those with larger CP counts will likely find adding a couple of IFLs to be
a
better strategy.
True. Just to expand on what Alan
On Feb 15, 2008, at 8:17 PM, Scott Ford wrote:
Ed,
None of the kids ( I am over 50 ) want to learn Cobol or Assembler.
I am
working for a software company writing in assembler and loving it.
Your right about colleges they are not teraching the older
languages, only
the web languages not a
On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 18:27:56 -0600, Ed Gould [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In order to read source you must understand the language teaching
people COBOL does not qualify them to read a source level OS (unless
its written in COBOL ((thank heaven for that)). ahhh of course there
is JAVA that will get
Hi
If some can help in some Linux questions:
- I would need a good newsgroup for Linux questions
- Where can I found the IPL wait state codes for zLinux ?
- Can we start zLinux under VM without IFL processors ?
--
Miklos Szigetvari
Development Team
ISIS Information Systems Gmbh
tel: (+43)
Miklos,
Marist College runs a Linux for System z newsgroup. Sign up by sending
an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put this in the body of the message:
subscribe linux-390 your-name
You'll get follow-up emails with additional details.
As to your other questions...
I don't know about the IPL
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Miklos Szigetvari
Hi
If some can help in some Linux questions:
- I would need a good newsgroup for Linux questions
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Where can I found the IPL wait state codes for zLinux ?
Can't answer this
Hi
Thank you very much.
(We try to get a used z/... machine, and the offered machine has no IFL,
but we need Linux )
Chase, John wrote:
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Miklos Szigetvari
Hi
If some can help in some Linux questions:
- I would
1. In addition to the general Linux information sources, all of which still
apply -- Linux is Linux -- you may wish to try the LINUX-390 LISTSERV,
hosted by Marist University. You can sign up here:
http://www2.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?linux-390
Please scroll down toward the bottom of that page,
On Feb 14, 2008, at 7:15 AM, Timothy Sipples wrote:
1. In addition to the general Linux information sources, all of
which still
apply -- Linux is Linux -- you may wish to try the LINUX-390 LISTSERV,
hosted by Marist University. You can sign up here:
On Thu, 14 Feb 2008 21:19:26 -0600, Ed Gould [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Can I ask an innocent(?) question here.. LINUX is it documented like
MVS or something like early 360 (YES 360) manuals ?
I do not have access to any of them to see.
Ed:
There is LOTS of documentation for Linux on System z.
Ed Gould asks:
Can I ask an innocent(?) question here.. LINUX is it documented like
MVS or something like early 360 (YES 360) manuals ?
Linux is maintained and enhanced in a community-driven manner, with no
single entity (e.g. IBM) controlling its entire development. As a
consequence the
On Thu, 14 Feb 2008 22:15:27 +0900, Timothy Sipples
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
3. Yes, you can certainly start and run Linux under z/VM on CPs (general
purpose processors). General purpose means you can run anything on
them --
CPs are the universal processors. IFLs are the processors dedicated to
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