> Andrew Rowley wrote:
> It's not cents per GB cheap
While I agree with everything you're saying, at the end of the day it's the
storage sysprog's decision. As with any z/OS sysprog, they make decisions that
programmers feel are abusive.
People are arguing about passion. If this were a
On 16/08/2023 6:17 am, Jon Perryman wrote:
This is absurd. Not all disk is cheap (e.g. GDPS). Not all data is valuable.
While a person may be expensive, not everything they do is of value to the
business and worth the hidden expenses.
It's not cents per GB PC cheap, but it's not 1990s
HSM has been able to back up at the file level (and recover, of course)
rather than an entire ZFS data set for some time now.
On Tue, 15 Aug 2023 at 21:17, Jon Perryman wrote:
> Andrew Rowley wrote:
>
> > Disk space is cheap. Data is valuable. People are expensive.
>
>
> This is absurd. Not
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of
Steve Thompson [ste...@wkyr.net]
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2023 4:18 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re:
Andrew Rowley wrote:
> Disk space is cheap. Data is valuable. People are expensive.
This is absurd. Not all disk is cheap (e.g. GDPS). Not all data is valuable.
While a person may be expensive, not everything they do is of value to the
business and worth the hidden expenses.
> I started on
On 15/08/2023 10:09 am, Jon Perryman wrote:
This is z/OS with SYSPROGS, not Unix with sysadmins where programmers have full
control to define reasonable. You keep asking the wrong question. Who (not
what) determines reasonable. Right or wrong, it is their job, not yours. If you
can't give up
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of
Steve Thompson [ste...@wkyr.net]
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2023 4:18 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: USS Features
"Is it a non-west-coast specific mentality to ignore reality? Is
> On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 04:18:31 PM PDT, Grant Taylor wrote:
> How did the business learn that Kubernettes could meet business needs,
> much less decide that is what the business wanted to do without first
> testing / evaluating it?
> That initial testing of Kubernettes is the very type
> On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 03:36:47 PM PDT, Andrew Rowley
> wrote:
> where the storage admin has to be involved, but what is a reasonable value?
This is z/OS with SYSPROGS, not Unix with sysadmins where programmers have full
control to define reasonable. You keep asking the wrong
On 8/14/23 4:30 PM, Jon Perryman wrote:
We don't ask people to follow blindly. Instead, we don't give them
another option. JCL, VSAM, availability to specific products and more
ensure you are choosing wisely. Kurbernettes containers, cloud and more
are implemented by sysprogs in a manner that
On 14/08/2023 3:30 pm, Jon Perryman wrote:
> On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 04:33:24 PM PDT, Andrew Rowley
wrote:
It comes back to the question I asked earlier - how much space is it
reasonable to use *to do your job* before you have to get the storage
admin involved?
Since you put it that
, I had boss or two in my first thirty years (not all by any means) who
would occasionally say "Now, Bob, I want you to do this task, but I don't want
you to write a program to do it - just do it". From this you would be
justified in surmising that I like programming, and often write something
> On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 06:34:35 AM PDT, Grant Taylor wrote:
>> On 8/14/23 12:54 AM, Jon Perryman wrote:
>> You're confusing z/OS with Unix where all programmers are
>> systems programmers who can do anything they want.
> No, I'm not confusing z/OS with Unix.
> I'm speaking
Jon, maybe you didn't mean to but this is a bait-and-switch. You baited them
with "...for more control". When Mr Spiegel questioned that and asked for
specifics, you offered something else entirely: Unix is more challenging, and
there was a claim that it's superior.
---
Bob Bridges,
"Is it a non-west-coast specific mentality to ignore reality? Is
COBOL bringing in top computer professionals because of the
challenges it poses? "
How about the prestigious Schools telling their students that
COBOL is a dead or dying language? And indicating that Mainframes
are obsolete
> On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 03:37:18 AM PDT, Lionel B Dyck
> wrote:
> I’ve never heard that before in my 50+ years
I'm surprised that people don't hear about these skills gaps when they are
mentioned every couple years.
> On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 03:09:33 AM PDT, David Spiegel wrote:
> You said: "...Programmers leave z/OS for Unix in order to be in full control.
> I have not once heard any programmer leave for more control.
> Could this be a west-coast specific mentality? ... It would not be surprising.
On 8/14/23 12:54 AM, Jon Perryman wrote:
You're confusing z/OS with Unix where all programmers are
systems programmers who can do anything they want.
No, I'm not confusing z/OS with Unix.
I'm speaking agnosticly about any OS that will run on the platform;
z/OS, VM, z/TPF, or even Linux.
I’ve never heard that before in my 50+ years.
Lionel B. Dyck <
Website: www.lbdsoftware.com
Sent from my iPhone 12 Pro
Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what you
are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden
> On Aug 14, 2023, at 5:09 AM,
Hi Jon,
You said: "...Programmers leave z/OS for Unix in order to be in full
control. Why do you think it's difficult to get z/OS programmers. ..."
I've been doing MVS Systems Programming for 40+ years and have not once
heard any programmer leave for more control.
Could this be a west-coast
> On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 06:04:55 PM PDT, Grant Taylor wrote:
> These statements cause me to pause. They seem somewhat antithetical to
> welcoming and encouraging people to use the mainframe / z/OS.
> Why is it absurd to allow everyone to do a Proof Of Concept on z/OS?
You're
> On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 04:33:24 PM PDT, Andrew Rowley
> wrote:
> It comes back to the question I asked earlier - how much space is it
> reasonable to use *to do your job* before you have to get the storage
> admin involved?
Since you put it that way, I've got to say are you insane.
On 8/7/23 9:56 AM, Jon Perryman wrote:
It's absurd to allow everyone to do Proof Of Concept on z/OS. Are
all POC vital to the business? Are POCs disruptive to the business?
These statements cause me to pause. They seem somewhat antithetical to
welcoming and encouraging people to use the
On 8/08/2023 12:56 am, Jon Perryman wrote:
It's absurd to allow everyone to do Proof Of Concept on z/OS. Are all POC vital to the
business? Are POCs disruptive to the business? "me" mentality ignores the
impact on everyone else. In this case, you're saying the storage admin is not impacted
done or you get ignored because it isn’t in the contract.
Not every shop has cooperative denizens or sharp-enough contract negotiators.
Peter
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Jon
Perryman
Sent: Friday, August 4, 2023 6:30 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: USS Feature
.
Peter
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Jon
Perryman
Sent: Friday, August 4, 2023 6:30 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: USS Features
> On Sunday, July 30, 2023 at 08:23:54 PM PDT, Andrew Rowley
> mailto:and...@blackhillsoftware.com>> wrote:
>
> On Sunday, July 30, 2023 at 08:23:54 PM PDT, Andrew Rowley
> wrote:
>> Whatever. We use automount, and the "space" wasted is way too trivial to
>> worry about.
> If it's trivial, you're probably not using actually using it.
Unix people don't understand trivial for z/OS. z/OS files are
On Mon, 31 Jul 2023 09:43:38 -0500, Grant Taylor wrote:
>On 7/31/23 8:06 AM, Rick Troth wrote:
>> per-user automount does not necessarily waste space
>
>IMHO automount is completely independent of shared / separate per user
>disk space.
>
>> The thing which is mounted might be a sub-directory of
On 7/31/23 8:06 AM, Rick Troth wrote:
per-user automount does not necessarily waste space
IMHO automount is completely independent of shared / separate per user
disk space.
The thing which is mounted might be a sub-directory of a shared space.
Agreed.
Also, automount is not exclusively
per-user automount does not necessarily waste space
The thing which is mounted might be a sub-directory of a shared space.
Also, automount is not exclusively for user home directories. It's great
for selected program products.
-- R; <><
On 7/30/23 23:46, Grant Taylor wrote:
On 7/30/23
On 7/30/23 10:23 PM, Andrew Rowley wrote:
A low end laptop has 250GB available. How much space should a z/OS user
be able to use (to do their job) before they have to make a special
request to the storage management group? 10GB? 100GB?
Please forgive the ignorant question, but does z/OS
On 31/07/2023 10:59 am, Steve Smith wrote:
Whatever. We use automount, and the "space" wasted is way too trivial to
worry about. And HSM can magically free up home filesystem zfs files that
aren't used any more.
If it's trivial, you're probably not using actually using it.
A low end laptop
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