Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))

2013-10-03 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
In , on 09/30/2013 at 09:10 AM, John Gilmore said: >Moreover, I have never met a highly competent z/OS or z/VM systems >programmer who was willing to devote herself or himself >exclusively to security for a single shop. Probably due to corporate culture and management issues. I can see such

Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))

2013-10-01 Thread Mike Schwab
Depends on the particular branch, but I assume seniority would decide who gets priority, and the boss would make the final decision. On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 3:03 PM, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote: > In > , > on 09/28/2013 >at 10:40 PM, Mike Schwab said: > >>I know in the Banking Industry, yo

Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))

2013-10-01 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
In , on 09/28/2013 at 10:40 PM, Mike Schwab said: >I know in the Banking Industry, you have to take one whole week of >vacation sometime during the year. What happens if they won't approve leave for the weeks that you want to take? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT IS

Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))

2013-09-30 Thread Tony Harminc
On 30 September 2013 10:43, John Gilmore wrote: > I am not sure just how 'staggering vacations in financial > institutions' dissolves collusions. It may well prevent them during > the interval when either of, say, two colluders is vacationing; but > there would still be ample opportunity for coll

Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))

2013-09-30 Thread Scott Ford
onday, September 30, 2013 9:10 AM Subject: Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s)) I am sure that outsourced security varies in quality and effectiveness, as does perforce 'outsourced' auditing. My now extended observation of it in several mainframe shops has not, however, b

Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))

2013-09-30 Thread Elardus Engelbrecht
John Gilmore wrote: >I am sure that outsourced security varies in quality and effectiveness, as >does perforce 'outsourced' auditing. True. >Exclusive preoccupation with security seems to lead ineluctably to rigid, >rote, highly standardized measures that make systems increasingly awkward and

Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))

2013-09-30 Thread Gross, Randall [PRI-1PP]
UA.EDU] On Behalf Of John Gilmore Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 10:43 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s)) I do not know Randall Gross personally, and it was anyway no part of my intent to impugn the competence of any particular mainfram

Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))

2013-09-30 Thread John Gilmore
I do not know Randall Gross personally, and it was anyway no part of my intent to impugn the competence of any particular mainframe security specialist. I indeed made it clear that I judge that the effectiveness of such groups varies widely. I am nevertheless unrepentent about my view that most o

Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))

2013-09-30 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 09:10:00 -0400, John Gilmore wrote: >I am sure that outsourced security varies in quality and >effectiveness, as does perforce 'outsourced' auditing. > In fact, the rationale of dissolving collusions was suggested to me decades ago, by someone unfamiliar with IT, in the contex

Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))

2013-09-30 Thread Gross, Randall [PRI-1PP]
mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of John Gilmore Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 9:10 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s)) I am sure that outsourced security varies in quality and effectiveness, as does perforce 'outsourced

Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))

2013-09-30 Thread John Gilmore
I am sure that outsourced security varies in quality and effectiveness, as does perforce 'outsourced' auditing. My now extended observation of it in several mainframe shops has not, however, been encouraging. Exclusive preoccupation with security seems to lead ineluctably to rigid, rote, highly s

Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))

2013-09-29 Thread John McKown
I hope that works better than our outsourced DBA staff. They don't know our business. They can't really give customized service. They need a lot of lead time for even small changes (or there is a really hefty charge). On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 at 9:24 AM, Paul Gilmartin wrote: > On Sun, 29 Sep 2013 0

Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))

2013-09-29 Thread Anne & Lynn Wheeler
re: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013m.html#16 Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s)) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013m.html#25 Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s)) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013m.html#31 Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s)) for other drift, part of the

Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))

2013-09-29 Thread Scott Ford
Mike, I remember my first consulting gig was a bank, that's also what they told me. Everyone had to take their vacation. Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD 'Infinite wisdom through infinite means' > On Sep 28, 2013, at 11:43 PM, Mike Schwab wrote: > > On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 8:53

Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))

2013-09-29 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On Sun, 29 Sep 2013 09:34:41 -0400, Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote: > >multi-party operations were/are countermeasure to insider fraud. > >collusion then is/was response by crooks. > >staggered vacations then are a countermeasure to collusion >... periodically mixing up those required for multi-party op

Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))

2013-09-29 Thread Anne & Lynn Wheeler
ons for establishing multi-party operations (i.e. working out permissions so that no single person has sufficient permissions to complete operation on their own). http://csrc.nist.gov/groups/SNS/rbac/ somewhat back to early thread http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013m.html#16 Work long hours (Was Re: Pissi

Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))

2013-09-28 Thread Mike Schwab
On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 8:53 PM, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote: > In > <8124033304576715.wa.elardus.engelbrechtsita.co...@listserv.ua.edu>, > on 09/26/2013 >at 01:19 AM, Elardus Engelbrecht > said: > >>I don't have any confirmed proof, but apparently the Japanese people >>are FORCED to have

Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))

2013-09-28 Thread Mike Schwab
I know in the Banking Industry, you have to take one whole week of vacation sometime during the year. Makes sure other people can do you job and that no funny accounting is going on. On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 8:53 PM, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote: > In > <8124033304576715.wa.elardus.engelbrechts

Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))

2013-09-28 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
In <8124033304576715.wa.elardus.engelbrechtsita.co...@listserv.ua.edu>, on 09/26/2013 at 01:19 AM, Elardus Engelbrecht said: >Indeed. In a mature Data Centre, such overtime may or may not be >frowned on, but you know there are exceptions and of course >changes needed to be done after hours.

Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))

2013-09-27 Thread Anne & Lynn Wheeler
m.html#16 Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s)) for some topic drift ... I become acquainted with John Boyd the spring of 1983 and would sponsor his briefings at IBM. He would mention that during vietnam, he could claim that the sensors on the trial wouldn't work. That is

Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))

2013-09-26 Thread Scott Ford
Lynn, Yep I agree worked with some oriental programs, who slept under their desks..these guys were unbelievably good programmers..the group I worked with wasn't quite that bad, no in a negative sense. Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD 'Infinite wisdom through infinite means' > On

Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))

2013-09-26 Thread Anne & Lynn Wheeler
elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za (Elardus Engelbrecht) writes: > I have occassionaly done a full night work, especially during > emergencies like botched installation, upgrade or big changes. as undergraduate in the 60s, the univ would shutdown the datacenter from 8am sat until 8am monday ... and le

Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))

2013-09-26 Thread Scott Ford
Elardus, Absolutely, life is short, there also is a balance with work and life Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD 'Infinite wisdom through infinite means' > On Sep 26, 2013, at 2:19 AM, Elardus Engelbrecht > wrote: > > I'm moving to a new thread. > > Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.

Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))

2013-09-25 Thread Elardus Engelbrecht
I'm moving to a new thread. Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote: >>Not only in South Africa, we do 18+ in NYC too, I have occassionaly done a full night work, especially during emergencies like botched installation, upgrade or big changes. >One of the things that happens as you get older is that yo