Re: Having the mainframe on YouTube

[Bigendian Smalls]

Thanks Jack!  - Chad
> On Oct 15, 2015, at 2:49 PM, Jack J. Woehr  wrote:
> 
> Mark Post wrote:
>> Related to this, Chad Rikansrud has written a blog post about APAR OA43999 
>> and just how much that APAR improves RACF's encryption.  
>> Seehttp://www.bigendiansmalls.com/racf-gets-serious-about-password-encryption
>>   if you're interested.  The improvement is actually pretty impressive.
>> 
> 
> Nice presentation, learned more from that about RACF than I ever learned 
> administering it back in the 1990's!
> 
> -- 
> Jack J. Woehr # Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of
> www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe
> www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. - Carl 
> Sagan
> 
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Re: Having the mainframe on YouTube

[Jack J. Woehr]

Mark Post wrote:

Related to this, Chad Rikansrud has written a blog post about APAR OA43999 and 
just how much that APAR improves RACF's encryption.  
Seehttp://www.bigendiansmalls.com/racf-gets-serious-about-password-encryption  
if you're interested.  The improvement is actually pretty impressive.



Nice presentation, learned more from that about RACF than I ever learned 
administering it back in the 1990's!

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www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe
www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. - Carl Sagan

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Re: Having the mainframe on YouTube

[Mark Post]

>>> On 9/28/2015 at 03:20 PM, "Jack J. Woehr"  wrote: 
-snip-
> Though I do hope IBM was there, because the last part is about how to crack 
> into z/OS and RACF 

Related to this, Chad Rikansrud has written a blog post about APAR OA43999 and 
just how much that APAR improves RACF's encryption.  See 
http://www.bigendiansmalls.com/racf-gets-serious-about-password-encryption if 
you're interested.  The improvement is actually pretty impressive.


Mark Post

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Re: Having the mainframe on YouTube

[Tom Marchant]

On Thu, 1 Oct 2015 11:36:49 -0700, Tom Brennan wrote:

>I'm one of the people who doesn't yet understand the Gratis/Libre
>concept.  Once you make your "free speech" source available, that's the
>same as "free beer" for software, unless you're in a parallel universe
>where everyone follows rules.

Mark and John both made excellent points. Consider this, too, perhaps 
it will be easier to understand. There is software that you can obtain at 
no cost that comes with licensing restrictions that limit your freedom to 
use it as you desire.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeware

You can charge for distributing free software. Red Hat and SUSE both do 
it. You can call it support if you like, but you don't need to. If you want 
to distribute DVDs containing your favorite distribution of GNU/Linux, you 
can charge as much as you want (and can get someone to pay) for them, 
whether or not you provide support.

https://gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html

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Re: Having the mainframe on YouTube

[Tom Marchant]

On Thu, 1 Oct 2015 10:45:35 -0600, Jack J. Woehr wrote:

>The original open source software guy was ... Chuck Moore (FORTH).
>
>He decided about 1969 that all software should be distributed in source.

Wasn't SHARE doing that in 1955? And I'm sure that they weren't the first.

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Re: Having the mainframe on YouTube

[Charles Mills]

Wasn't the CBT the original open source shareware?

And does anyone remember IBM "Type 3's" and "Type 4's" -- "Field Developed 
Programs," the former written by SEs and the latter by customers? Free and open 
source.

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Tom Marchant
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 5:26 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Having the mainframe on YouTube

On Thu, 1 Oct 2015 10:45:35 -0600, Jack J. Woehr wrote:

>The original open source software guy was ... Chuck Moore (FORTH).
>
>He decided about 1969 that all software should be distributed in source.

Wasn't SHARE doing that in 1955? And I'm sure that they weren't the first.

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Re: Having the mainframe on YouTube

[Jack J. Woehr]

Charles Mills wrote:

Wasn't the CBT the original open source shareware?
Digressing further & for extra credit: Who recalls who described the future burden of legacy software  writing in 
the 1940's before digital binary computers?


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Re: Having the mainframe on YouTube

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In <053001d0fd20$6f7f0300$4e7d0900$@mcn.org>, on 10/02/2015
   at 07:41 AM, Charles Mills  said:

>Wasn't the CBT the original open source shareware?

The CBT tape wasn'r shareware and it wasn't the original open source.
Open source was the norm in the 1950's and 1960's.
 
-- 
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 ISO position; see  
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Re: Having the mainframe on YouTube

[Tom Marchant]

On Fri, 2 Oct 2015 09:36:07 -0700, Charles Mills wrote:

>Yes, and of course Linux and GNU are also free UNIX, 

>Linux and GNU and Free BSD do (almost I suppose) everything UNIX does...

If you mean that Linux with GNU is (very much like) Unix, yes.

If you mean that Linux and GNU are both (very much like) Unix, then no.

The GNU project set out in the early 1980's to create a new operating 
system from scratch. It was mostly complete, except for the kernel, when 
the Linux kernel became available. AFAIK the GNU/Hurd kernel is still not 
ready for production use, so most users of the GNU operating system run it 
with the Linux kernel.

The Linux kernel is just that, a kernel. By itself, it is not very useful as an 
operating system.

http://www.gnu.org/gnu/linux-and-gnu.html

>I think Windows Server is also UNIX.

Really? Why do you think that?

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Re: Having the mainframe on YouTube

[Barry Merrill]

I definitely got free source code software in 1965 from SHARE, 
maybe it was called the SSD - Share Software Distribution?

At Purdue, my EE major professor called me on a Sunday that he had
just returned from the (IEEE?) Conference where the Cooley-Tukey
Fast Fourier Transform paper had been first presented, and by Monday
afternoon I had used the logic described in that paper to write
a FORTRAN program that verified the incredible speed up of the 
FFT algorithm (I recall minimum factors of 256 times faster).

A few months later, my prof called me to say the Computer Center had
received the regular package of card decks of programs from SHARE,
and there was a new FORTRAN FFT Subroutine written by Tukey himself.
I ultimately found the store room with a long wall of card-deck
cabinets, a printed index of what was where, two card duplicators,
and cases of blank IBM cards (all of which were always made in
in Greencastle, IN).

When I looked at Tukey's program, I recall it's inner loop was
a dozen or so instructions, versus the several hundred lines 
of code I had constructed to do the same think, and recognized
the difference between a Programmer and a Coder.

Barry


Herbert W. “Barry” Merrill, PhD
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MXG Software
Merrill Consultants
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-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Tom Marchant
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 7:26 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Having the mainframe on YouTube

On Thu, 1 Oct 2015 10:45:35 -0600, Jack J. Woehr wrote:

>The original open source software guy was ... Chuck Moore (FORTH).
>
>He decided about 1969 that all software should be distributed in source.

Wasn't SHARE doing that in 1955? And I'm sure that they weren't the first.

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Re: Having the mainframe on YouTube

[Charles Mills]

I am on a small screen and cannot do teal research. As I said, 'I think." At 
one time posix compliance was necessary or tral helpful for federal sales and I 
believe MS got on the bandwagon. 


CharlesSent from a mobile; please excuse the brevity

 Original message 
From: Tom Marchant <000a2a8c2020-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> 
Date: 10/02/2015  10:47 AM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: Re: Having the mainframe on YouTube 

On Fri, 2 Oct 2015 09:36:07 -0700, Charles Mills wrote:

>Yes, and of course Linux and GNU are also free UNIX, 

>Linux and GNU and Free BSD do (almost I suppose) everything UNIX does...

If you mean that Linux with GNU is (very much like) Unix, yes.

If you mean that Linux and GNU are both (very much like) Unix, then no.

The GNU project set out in the early 1980's to create a new operating 
system from scratch. It was mostly complete, except for the kernel, when 
the Linux kernel became available. AFAIK the GNU/Hurd kernel is still not 
ready for production use, so most users of the GNU operating system run it 
with the Linux kernel.

The Linux kernel is just that, a kernel. By itself, it is not very useful as an 
operating system.

http://www.gnu.org/gnu/linux-and-gnu.html

>I think Windows Server is also UNIX.

Really? Why do you think that?

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Re: Having the mainframe on YouTube

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In <560d4cb9026d001a0...@prv-mh.provo.novell.com>, on 10/01/2015
   at 01:09 PM, Mark Post  said:

>BUT, no one can take away the _freedom_ you have to use that software
>in any way you want. 

The license just trades one set of restrictions for another; you are
not free to markeyna modified version any way that you lioke, and
depending on which license was used you may not even be free to market
a program that calls an unmodified version of the (not reallY free
sofware.
 
-- 
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 ISO position; see  
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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Re: Having the mainframe on YouTube

[Tom Marchant]

On Fri, 2 Oct 2015 11:16:04 -0500, Tim Lost wrote:

>There is a Free Unix, its called Free BSD but due to legal reasons they
>can't call it Unix.

Good point. I stand corrected.

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Re: Having the mainframe on YouTube

[Tom Marchant]

On Wed, 30 Sep 2015 13:24:00 +0800, Timothy Sipples wrote:

>Tom Marchant wrote:
>>Unix is not free software.
>
>UNIX=AE is sometimes free, at least in the colloquial sense of the word. Mac
>OS X, for example, is UNIX=AE (and Open Group certified), and it's available
>free of charge from Apple to everyone who has a compatible Macintosh
>computer.

Mac OS X upgrades may be obtained without an upgrade charge, but to go 
from that to claim that Unix is free stretches credulity. The only way you can 
get an OS X upgrade is if you have already purchased a license to the operating 
system with a computer. And you cannot legally install it on any other computer.

Aside from that, the free software movement is not about price, but freedom. 
In English, the word "Free" has different meanings. One of those has to do with 
cost. Another is about freedom.

As Richard Stallman puts it, it is “free” as in “free speech,” not as in “free 
beer”.

Unix is not free in either sense. Neither is Mac OSX.

https://gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
https://www.fsf.org/

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Re: Having the mainframe on YouTube

[Mark Post]

>>> On 10/1/2015 at 11:28 AM, Tom Marchant
<000a2a8c2020-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: 
> Aside from that, the free software movement is not about price, but freedom. 
> In English, the word "Free" has different meanings. One of those has to do 
> with  cost. Another is about freedom.

Which is why some people have taken to calling it Free/Libre, since French, 
among other languages distinguish the two.

And just as an aside, I'm intrigued that at least one other person besides 
myself and John McKown knows about and understands the concept and is willing 
to espouse it.  (I actually am more of an Open Source person than Free 
Software, but that's not terribly relevant here.)


Mark Post

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Re: Having the mainframe on YouTube

[David L. Craig]

On 15Oct01:0945-0600, Mark Post wrote:

> And just as an aside, I'm intrigued that at least
> one other person besides myself and John McKown knows
> about and understands the concept and is willing to
> espouse it.  (I actually am more of an Open Source
> person than Free Software, but that's not terribly
> relevant here.)

There are many of us.  Some, such as myself, started
with S/360 and became multi-platform capable, even
before PCs were forced on just about everyone.  But we
had libre software back before HASP or TSO--that was
a huge component of what SHARE shared.  Having machine-
readble OS and product source code permitted great
advancements beyond what IBMers were producing, and a
lot of that was going on in university settings as well
as large organizations.
-- 

May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly!

Dave_Craig__
"So the universe is not quite as you thought it was.
 You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then.
 Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe."
__--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_

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Re: Having the mainframe on YouTube

[Jack J. Woehr]

David L. Craig wrote:

As a matter of fact, I learned about RMS and his crusade
on VMSHARE,

The original open source software guy was ... Chuck Moore (FORTH).

He decided about 1969 that all software should be distributed in source.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_H._Moore

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www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe
www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. - Carl Sagan

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Re: Having the mainframe on YouTube

[David L. Craig]

On 15Oct01:1618+, David L. Craig wrote:

> On 15Oct01:0945-0600, Mark Post wrote:
> 
> > And just as an aside, I'm intrigued that at least
> > one other person besides myself and John McKown knows
> > about and understands the concept and is willing to
> > espouse it.  (I actually am more of an Open Source
> > person than Free Software, but that's not terribly
> > relevant here.)
> 
As a matter of fact, I learned about RMS and his crusade
on VMSHARE, not long before I got an offer to learn UNIX
while providing useful mainframe expertise.  RMS showed
need for copyleft when most IBM mainframe libreware was
simply released into the public domain (not yet a quiant
notion).
-- 

May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly!

Dave_Craig__
"So the universe is not quite as you thought it was.
 You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then.
 Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe."
__--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_

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Re: Having the mainframe on YouTube

[Mark Post]

>>> On 10/1/2015 at 02:58 PM, Tom Brennan  wrote: 
> Jack J. Woehr wrote:
>> Have you looked at the price of RedHat stock lately? There's plenty of 
>> money in free: you charge for support!
> 
> I certainly agree!  But I'm not sure it's related (unless that's the 
> point I'm missing).  So let's say you give me source code (free speech) 
> and I compile it and use it (free beer), without needing your help 
> because you wrote it so well.  Didn't I just get beer for free?

Yes.  But that's not the point of the distinction.  The point is that you may 
get the software for no cost, or for some cost.  BUT, no one can take away the 
_freedom_ you have to use that software in any way you want.  The emphasis on 
the slogan is on the freedom part _for everyone_, not just the person that 
created the software.  The slogan was created to get native English speakers to 
think about the freedom aspect, and not think that it only related to price.

If you're really curious, there are lots and lots of resources on the web that 
talk about a lot of the implications of this, both for the author and people 
who want to use the software for various other purposes.  But, for the FSF, the 
main thrust is that Free/Libre software can't be made proprietary by others, 
and you can't be restricted in what personal use you want to make of it.


Mark Post

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Re: Having the mainframe on YouTube

[Tom Brennan]

Jack J. Woehr wrote:
Have you looked at the price of RedHat stock lately? There's plenty of 
money in free: you charge for support!


I certainly agree!  But I'm not sure it's related (unless that's the 
point I'm missing).  So let's say you give me source code (free speech) 
and I compile it and use it (free beer), without needing your help 
because you wrote it so well.  Didn't I just get beer for free?


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Re: Having the mainframe on YouTube

[John McKown]

On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 1:58 PM, Tom Brennan 
wrote:

> Jack J. Woehr wrote:
>
>> Have you looked at the price of RedHat stock lately? There's plenty of
>> money in free: you charge for support!
>>
>
> I certainly agree!  But I'm not sure it's related (unless that's the point
> I'm missing).  So let's say you give me source code (free speech) and I
> compile it and use it (free beer), without needing your help because you
> wrote it so well.  Didn't I just get beer for free?
>
>
​Sure. But most _companies_ won't really depend on 3rd party source to be
maintained in-house. They, generally, want company-specific programs to be
designed, written, an​d maintained in house. But things like compilers,
operating system, data base management system, and such, they generally
want a legal contract, with penalties, from an industry reputable company,
such a RedHat (for Linux + major software), or even EnterpriseDB (advanced
PostgreSQL). The management here, as best as I can tell, has decided (as
they have said it) "We are not in the IT business". So they are "cloud
sourcing" the entire infrastructure, starting with z/OS. Actually, the z/OS
processes are being converted to some other platform (Windows, I think) as
a SaaS (as I understand it). Eventually I think that the company itself
will only have some application designers as full time employees. The
hardware and non-application software will all be handled by some other 3rd
party. We don't have any DBAs any more. Another company does all the
"technical data base stuff" for us.


-- 

Schrodinger's backup: The condition of any backup is unknown until a
restore is attempted.

Yoda of Borg, we are. Futile, resistance is, yes. Assimilated, you will be.

He's about as useful as a wax frying pan.

10 to the 12th power microphones = 1 Megaphone

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: Having the mainframe on YouTube

[Tom Brennan]

Mark Post wrote:

Which is why some people have taken to calling it Free/Libre, since French, 
among other languages distinguish the two.

And just as an aside, I'm intrigued that at least one other person besides 
myself and John McKown knows about and understands the concept and is willing 
to espouse it.  (I actually am more of an Open Source person than Free 
Software, but that's not terribly relevant here.)


And I'm one of the people who doesn't yet understand the Gratis/Libre 
concept.  Once you make your "free speech" source available, that's the 
same as "free beer" for software, unless you're in a parallel universe 
where everyone follows rules.


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Re: Having the mainframe on YouTube

[Jack J. Woehr]

Tom Brennan wrote:


And I'm one of the people who doesn't yet understand the Gratis/Libre concept.  Once you make your "free speech" 
source available, that's the same as "free beer" for software, unless you're in a parallel universe where everyone 
follows rules.

Have you looked at the price of RedHat stock lately? There's plenty of money in 
free: you charge for support!

--
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www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe
www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. - Carl Sagan

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Re: Having the mainframe on YouTube

[Jack J. Woehr]

Tom Brennan wrote:
 So let's say you give me source code (free speech) and I compile it and use it (free beer), without needing your help 
because you wrote it so well.  Didn't I just get beer for free?





There's no COGS so it doesn't matter, as long as enough parties /do/ need 
support to keep the game going.

What was the price that MySQL AB was sold for to Oracle? 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MySQL_AB

I've been using MySQL for over a decade and never paid a cent. Someone must 
have.

--
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www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe
www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. - Carl Sagan


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Re: Having the mainframe on YouTube

[Timothy Sipples]

Paul Gilmartin wrote:
>Which may be irrelevant because sooner or later they impel hardware
>upgrades which aren't free.

Sure, but that's a universal truth. All operating systems that evolve
eventually stop supporting older processors. Linux kernels 3.8 and above no
longer support Intel 80386 (and 386 compatible) processors, as an example.
Most Linux distributions dropped 386 support a long time before the kernel
did in 2013.

http://kernelnewbies.org/Linux_3.8


Timothy Sipples
IT Architect Executive, Industry Solutions, IBM z Systems, AP/GCG/MEA
E-Mail: sipp...@sg.ibm.com

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Re: Having the mainframe on YouTube

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Wed, 30 Sep 2015 10:55:33 -0400, Mark Jacobs - Listserv wrote:

>The last three releases of MacOS, including today's release of 10.11
>have been free.
> 
Which may be irrelevant because sooner or later they impel hardware
upgrades which aren't free.

-- gil

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Re: Having the mainframe on YouTube

[John McKown]

On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 12:24 AM, Timothy Sipples 
wrote:

> Tom Marchant wrote:
> >Unix is not free software.
>
> UNIX® is sometimes free, at least in the colloquial sense of the word. Mac
> OS X, for example, is UNIX® (and Open Group certified), and it's available
> free of charge from Apple to everyone who has a compatible Macintosh
> computer.
>

​Um, it is truly that the current (at the time) MacOSX is bundled with
every Apple hardware purchase. But upgrades to a new version cost money.
Just like in the Wintel eco-system. ​



>
>
> 
> Timothy Sipples
> IT Architect Executive, Industry Solutions, IBM z Systems, AP/GCG/MEA
> E-Mail: sipp...@sg.ibm.com


-- 

Schrodinger's backup: The condition of any backup is unknown until a
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Yoda of Borg, we are. Futile, resistance is, yes. Assimilated, you will be.

He's about as useful as a wax frying pan.

10 to the 12th power microphones = 1 Megaphone

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: Having the mainframe on YouTube

[John McKown]

On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 9:55 AM, Mark Jacobs - Listserv <
mark.jac...@custserv.com> wrote:

> The last three releases of MacOS, including today's release of 10.11 have
> been free.
>

​Strange. I guess Apple hates me. The last time I upgraded, which I cannot
any more due to "obsolete hardware", I had to pay. That was about 2 years
ago, IIRC.​

-- 

Schrodinger's backup: The condition of any backup is unknown until a
restore is attempted.

Yoda of Borg, we are. Futile, resistance is, yes. Assimilated, you will be.

He's about as useful as a wax frying pan.

10 to the 12th power microphones = 1 Megaphone

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: Having the mainframe on YouTube

[Farley, Peter x23353]

But not W10 for non-commercial use, or so they keep telling us.

Personally, I'm going to follow my usual practice and wait for at least SP1 
before any possible "upgrade" to systems that I own.

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of John McKown
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2015 10:52 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Having the mainframe on YouTube

On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 12:24 AM, Timothy Sipples <sipp...@sg.ibm.com>
wrote:

> Tom Marchant wrote:
> >Unix is not free software.
>
> UNIX® is sometimes free, at least in the colloquial sense of the word. Mac
> OS X, for example, is UNIX® (and Open Group certified), and it's available
> free of charge from Apple to everyone who has a compatible Macintosh
> computer.
>

​Um, it is truly that the current (at the time) MacOSX is bundled with
every Apple hardware purchase. But upgrades to a new version cost money.
Just like in the Wintel eco-system. ​

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Re: Having the mainframe on YouTube

[Blake, Daniel J [CTR]]

I bought my MacBook Air Mid 2011.  It came with OS X Lion.  Since then I've 
upgraded to:
Mountain Lion
Mavericks
Yosemite
And soon to Ei Capitan, all for free.

I wish I could say the same about MS.  One of the bigger reasons why I bailed 
on MS.

Dan 


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Mark Jacobs - Listserv
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2015 10:56 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Having the mainframe on YouTube

The last three releases of MacOS, including today's release of 10.11 have been 
free.

Mark Jacobs

> John McKown <mailto:john.archie.mck...@gmail.com>
> September 30, 2015 at 10:52 AM
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 12:24 AM, Timothy Sipples<sipp...@sg.ibm.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Tom Marchant wrote:
>>> Unix is not free software.
>> UNIX(r) is sometimes free, at least in the colloquial sense of the 
>> word. Mac OS X, for example, is UNIX(r) (and Open Group certified), and 
>> it's available free of charge from Apple to everyone who has a 
>> compatible Macintosh computer.
>>
>
> Um, it is truly that the current (at the time) MacOSX is bundled with 
> every Apple hardware purchase. But upgrades to a new version cost money.
> Just like in the Wintel eco-system.
>
>
>
>> -
>> ---
>> Timothy Sipples
>> IT Architect Executive, Industry Solutions, IBM z Systems, AP/GCG/MEA
>> E-Mail: sipp...@sg.ibm.com
>
>
> --
>
> Schrodinger's backup: The condition of any backup is unknown until a 
> restore is attempted.
>
> Yoda of Borg, we are. Futile, resistance is, yes. Assimilated, you will be.
>
> He's about as useful as a wax frying pan.
>
> 10 to the 12th power microphones = 1 Megaphone
>
> Maranatha!<><
> John McKown
>
> --
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Re: Having the mainframe on YouTube

[Tom Marchant]

On Mon, 28 Sep 2015 13:09:27 -0600, Jack J. Woehr wrote:

>us Unix free software guys

Unix is not free software.

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Tom Marchant

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Re: Having the mainframe on YouTube

[Timothy Sipples]

Tom Marchant wrote:
>Unix is not free software.

UNIX® is sometimes free, at least in the colloquial sense of the word. Mac
OS X, for example, is UNIX® (and Open Group certified), and it's available
free of charge from Apple to everyone who has a compatible Macintosh
computer.


Timothy Sipples
IT Architect Executive, Industry Solutions, IBM z Systems, AP/GCG/MEA
E-Mail: sipp...@sg.ibm.com

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Re: Having the mainframe on YouTube

[Jon Butler]

While the low-cost software community would like you to think ' "hacking" means 
programming for the joy of it.' in fact its meaning in English, according to 
the OED, is quite the opposite and that which is generally accepted by the 
public:

hack, v.3

[f. hack n.3] 

1.1 trans. To make a hack of, to put to indiscriminate or promiscuous use; to 
make common, vulgar, or stale, by such treatment; to hackney. Also to hack 
about, hack to death.

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Re: Having the mainframe on YouTube

[Charles Mills]

Hacking?
CharlesSent from a mobile; please excuse the brevity

 Original message 
From: Neale Ferguson  
Date: 09/28/2015  10:59 AM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: Having the mainframe on YouTube 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5AG59Y1_EY

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Re: Having the mainframe on YouTube

[Jack J. Woehr]

Neale Ferguson wrote:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5AG59Y1_EY
>
Great presentation, describing the same experience all us Unix free software 
guys all have meeting the mainframe.

-- 
Jack J. Woehr # Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of
www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe
www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. - Carl Sagan

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Re: Having the mainframe on YouTube

[Jack J. Woehr]

Charles Mills wrote:
 
Hacking?




In the Free Software community, "hacking" means programming for the joy of it. 
Not breaking in. That's the media.

When you say "goodbye" to Richard M. Stallman, he responds, "Happy hacking!"

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www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe
www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. - Carl Sagan

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Re: Having the mainframe on YouTube

[Jack J. Woehr]

Jack J. Woehr wrote:
> Neale Ferguson wrote:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5AG59Y1_EY
>>
> Great presentation, describing the same experience all us Unix free software 
> guys all have meeting the mainframe.
>
Though I do hope IBM was there, because the last part is about how to crack 
into z/OS and RACF 

-- 
Jack J. Woehr # Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of
www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe
www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. - Carl Sagan

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Re: Having the mainframe on YouTube

[Jack J. Woehr]

Charles Mills wrote:
 
Right. I know the original (true?) meaning of hack. I was questioning whether "having" in the subject line should not perhaps be "hacking. "


excooz, me dull today :)

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www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe
www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. - Carl Sagan

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Re: Having the mainframe on YouTube

[Charles Mills]

Right. I know the original (true?) meaning of hack. I was questioning whether 
"having" in the subject line should not perhaps be "hacking. "
CharlesSent from a mobile; please excuse the brevity

 Original message 
From: "Jack J. Woehr" <j...@well.com> 
Date: 09/28/2015  12:03 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: Re: Having the mainframe on YouTube 

Charles Mills wrote:
>  
> Hacking?
>

In the Free Software community, "hacking" means programming for the joy of it. 
Not breaking in. That's the media.

When you say "goodbye" to Richard M. Stallman, he responds, "Happy hacking!"

-- 
Jack J. Woehr # Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of
www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe
www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. - Carl Sagan

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