Re: empty KSDS behavior - why?

EDU Subject: Re: empty KSDS behavior - why? Nice irony how he not only misunderstood the statement, but introduced his own typo/spelling error. It pays to read before write... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive acc

Re: empty KSDS behavior - why?

Nice irony how he not only misunderstood the statement, but introduced his own typo/spelling error. It pays to read before write... sas On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 8:45 AM, J R wrote: > The point made was that the paragraph did not make sense as printed. The > suggestion was *not* that LSR and

Re: empty KSDS behavior - why?

The point made was that the paragraph did not make sense as printed. The suggestion was *not* that LSR and RLS were equivalent. > On Jun 4, 2018, at 08:26, Allan Staller wrote: > > "(I'm assuming that last usage of "RLS" > should be "LSR".)" > > No. RLS and LST are *VERY* different.

Re: empty KSDS behavior - why?

3 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: empty KSDS behavior - why? > On Jun 1, 2018, at 5:55 PM, Frank Swarbrick > wrote: > > Here's something interesting I found in the "VSAM Demystified" > Redbook: "Empty KSDSs: RLS allows you to open an empty KSDS with

Re: empty KSDS behavior - why?

> On Jun 1, 2018, at 5:55 PM, Frank Swarbrick > wrote: > > Here's something interesting I found in the "VSAM Demystified" Redbook: > "Empty KSDSs: RLS allows you to open an empty KSDS without first loading the > data set. In other modes (NSR, RLS [sic?]), this process is not possible." >

Re: empty KSDS behavior - why?

Wednesday, May 30, 2018 11:33 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: empty KSDS behavior - why? Let's just say that I can't think of a case where I'd want that differentiation. Anyway, obviously IBM shouldn't change the default, but it seems to me they could provide a new option on DEFI

Re: empty KSDS behavior - why?

ACB MACRF=RST forces a VSAM file into load mode. It doesn't seem like it would be so difficult or incompatible to add a new MACRF option to force initialization into "loaded" mode (as opposed to failing the OPEN as it now does). MACRF=RST requires some DEFINE option as well, but I'm not sure

Re: empty KSDS behavior - why?

/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2018 3:42 PM To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu Subject: Re: empty KSDS behavior - why? On Tue, 29 May 2018 19

Re: empty KSDS behavior - why?

I give up. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 9:39 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: empty KSDS behavior - why? On Wed, 30 May 2018 06:15:11 -0700

Re: empty KSDS behavior - why?

On Wed, 30 May 2018 06:15:11 -0700, Charles Mills wrote: >Humor me -- I'm not a VSAM guy. Are there really people who are counting on >their COBOL programs blowing up if they fail to do the right juju on their new >VSAM file? > Not COBOL, but from a recent ply: On Tue, 29 May 2018 21:29:25

Re: empty KSDS behavior - why?

W dniu 2018-05-29 o 20:25, Paul Gilmartin pisze: On Tue, 29 May 2018 18:12:16 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: Why would IBM have to add a key? What is necessary is to create an empty KSDS that can be read; add and delete is one way to do it, and doesn't leave a key behind. I'd prefer that they

Re: empty KSDS behavior - why?

Staller Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 5:49 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: empty KSDS behavior - why? Consistent behavior and backwards compatability does make it right! You can question the original though process, but not maintaining consistency. -Original Message- From: IBM

Re: empty KSDS behavior - why?

, 2018 7:51 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: empty KSDS behavior - why? On Tue, 29 May 2018 20:42:53 -0400, Doug Shupe wrote: >LOADED vs UNLOADED. > >Read the VSAM DEMISTIFIED Redbooks. > >When you define a VSAM file it is in an UNLOADED state, REPRO will open for >ou

Re: empty KSDS behavior - why?

Suhr suhr...@gmail.com -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2018 20:51 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: empty KSDS behavior - why? On Tue, 29 May 2018 20:42:53 -0400, Doug Shupe wrote: >LOADED vs UNLO

Re: empty KSDS behavior - why?

On Tue, 29 May 2018 20:42:53 -0400, Doug Shupe wrote: >LOADED vs UNLOADED. > >Read the VSAM DEMISTIFIED Redbooks. > >When you define a VSAM file it is in an UNLOADED state, REPRO will open for >output and work just fine. > >If you write a record and delete the record the VSAM file is now in a

Re: empty KSDS behavior - why?

ame Discussion List on behalf of Doug Shupe Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2018 6:42 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: empty KSDS behavior - why? LOADED vs UNLOADED. Read the VSAM DEMISTIFIED Redbooks. When you define a VSAM file it is in an UNLOADED state, REPRO will open for output and

Re: empty KSDS behavior - why?

. From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Gerhard Adam Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2018 4:59 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: empty KSDS behavior - why? Perhaps a silly question, but were these files allocated with RECOVERY or SPEED? IIRC, RECOVERY pre-formats

Re: empty KSDS behavior - why?

SPEED. RECOVERY does not appear to make any difference. HI-U-RBA is still 0. From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Gerhard Adam Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2018 4:59 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: empty KSDS behavior - why? Perhaps a silly

Re: empty KSDS behavior - why?

433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> > Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2018 12:25 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: empty KSDS behavior - why? > >> On Tue, 29 May 2018 18:12:16 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: >> >> Why would IBM have to add a key? What is nec

Re: empty KSDS behavior - why?

, 2018 1:26 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: empty KSDS behavior - why? Did you try reading in each case? I believe that you will find that the results differ. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe

Re: empty KSDS behavior - why?

On Tue, 29 May 2018 19:12:32 +, Frank Swarbrick wrote: >Test 1 - both DVFJS.DUMMY1 and DVFJS.DUMMY2 are "un-initialized" (HI-U-RBA is >0): > > REPRO IDS(DVFJS.DUMMY1) ODS(DVFJS.DUMMY2) >IDC3300I ERROR OPENING DVFJS.DUMMY1 >IDC3351I ** VSAM OPEN RETURN CODE IS 160 >IDC0005I NUMBER OF RECORDS

Re: empty KSDS behavior - why?

To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu Subject: Re: empty KSDS behavior - why? Test 1 - both DVFJS.DUMMY1 and DVFJS.DUMMY2 are "un-initialized" (HI-U-RBA is 0): REPRO IDS(DVFJS.DUMMY1) ODS(DVFJS.DUMMY2) IDC3300I ERROR OPENING DVFJS.DUMMY1 IDC3351I ** VSAM OPEN RETURN CODE IS 160 IDC0005I NUMBER

Re: empty KSDS behavior - why?

emains "un-initialized" (HI-U-RBA is still 0). From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2018 12:25 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: empty KSDS b

Re: empty KSDS behavior - why?

.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2018 2:25 PM To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu Subject: Re: empty KSDS behavior

Re: empty KSDS behavior - why?

On Tue, 29 May 2018 18:12:16 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: >Why would IBM have to add a key? What is necessary is to create an empty KSDS >that can be read; add and delete is one way to do it, and doesn't leave a key >behind. I'd prefer that they just initialized it to have the same contents as

Re: empty KSDS behavior - why?

://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Edward Gould Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2018 11:46 PM To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu Subject: Re: empty KSDS behavior - why? > On May 27, 2018, at 8:51 PM, Charles Mills wrote: > > E

Re: empty KSDS behavior - why?

On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 12:25 PM Frank Swarbrick < frank.swarbr...@outlook.com> wrote: > I don't think the key would matter, because it can immediately be deleted, > leaving the file "empty" but with the HI RBA appropriately set in order to > avoid the issue. > > I'm glad to see I'm not the only

Re: empty KSDS behavior - why?

there any standard utility that is able to add and delete a record? I don't see IDCAMS having any such option. From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Edward Gould Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2018 9:46 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: empty KSD

Re: empty KSDS behavior - why?

To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: empty KSDS behavior - why? On Sun, 27 May 2018 22:46:52 -0500, Edward Gould wrote: >> On May 27, 2018, at 8:51 PM, Charles Mills wrote: >> >> Exactly. I am no VSAM guy ... but whatever magic you have to do manually go >> get the

Re: empty KSDS behavior - why?

> On May 28, 2018, at 12:38 AM, Paul Gilmartin > <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > No, no! The suggestion was that it should automagically add one record, > *then*delete*it*. > (Others have said this suffices.) Or, in a shortcut initialize the data set > in such a

Re: empty KSDS behavior - why?

On Sun, 27 May 2018 22:46:52 -0500, Edward Gould wrote: >> On May 27, 2018, at 8:51 PM, Charles Mills wrote: >> >> Exactly. I am no VSAM guy ... but whatever magic you have to do manually go >> get the VSAM file to be readable, why can't AMS just do that when it creates >> the file? Is there

Re: empty KSDS behavior - why?

> On May 27, 2018, at 8:51 PM, Charles Mills wrote: > > Exactly. I am no VSAM guy ... but whatever magic you have to do manually go > get the VSAM file to be readable, why can't AMS just do that when it creates > the file? Is there any reason anyone would want a "virginal"

Re: empty KSDS behavior - why?

On Behalf Of Seymour J Metz Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2018 12:41 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: empty KSDS behavior - why? Not really. It's more like making you create a VTOC after you've formated the drive instead of making the creation of the VTOC part of the formatting

Re: empty KSDS behavior - why?

t: Re: empty KSDS behavior - why? I think it's more like "why do we have to format disk drives." Even a VTOC needs to know where things start and end. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf Of R.S. Sent: Saturday, May 2

Re: empty KSDS behavior - why?

I think it's more like "why do we have to format disk drives." Even a VTOC needs to know where things start and end. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of R.S. Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2018 2:14 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU

Re: empty KSDS behavior - why?

I've considered it a minor nuisance since day one. I got used to it, but never learned to like it. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Frank Swarbrick

Re: empty KSDS behavior - why?

Yep. One per volume. Sorry about that. On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 11:55 AM, Edward Gould wrote: >> On May 25, 2018, at 10:43 PM, Mike Schwab wrote: >> >> I remember working with HSM migration control datasets a few years >> ago. Even for that

Re: empty KSDS behavior - why?

> On May 25, 2018, at 10:43 PM, Mike Schwab wrote: > > I remember working with HSM migration control datasets a few years > ago. Even for that you had to load a high key value dummy record > before using the dataset. Mike, I think you are talking about the SDSP VSAM

Re: empty KSDS behavior - why?

: empty KSDS behavior - why? > For example, if a file in this "never loaded" state is opened for > input by IDCAMS you get this: > > If opened by SORT (DFSORT) > IEC161I > 072-053,DEFVSAM,PRINT1,CCMIGR,,,DVFJS.CCARD.CCMIGRX,DVFJS.CCARD.CCMIGRX.DATA ,CATALOG.USERCAT.P

Re: empty KSDS behavior - why?

> For example, if a file in this "never loaded" state is opened for > input by IDCAMS you get this: > > If opened by SORT (DFSORT) > IEC161I > 072-053,DEFVSAM,PRINT1,CCMIGR,,,DVFJS.CCARD.CCMIGRX,DVFJS.CCARD.CCMIGRX.DATA,CATALOG.USERCAT.PPCAT > Frank, IDCAMS gives a return code of 160 for

Re: empty KSDS behavior - why?

W dniu 2018-05-26 o 02:47, Paul Gilmartin pisze: On Sat, 26 May 2018 00:20:34 +, Frank Swarbrick wrote: Pointless issue of the day. This has bothered me for 20 years. I figured its about time I ask, why? Why does an "empty" KSDS (a KSDS that has never been "loaded") have what seems to

Re: empty KSDS behavior - why?

I remember working with HSM migration control datasets a few years ago. Even for that you had to load a high key value dummy record before using the dataset. On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 7:20 PM, Frank Swarbrick wrote: > Pointless issue of the day. This has bothered me

Re: empty KSDS behavior - why?

On Sat, 26 May 2018 00:20:34 +, Frank Swarbrick wrote: >Pointless issue of the day. This has bothered me for 20 years. I figured its >about time I ask, why? Why does an "empty" KSDS (a KSDS that has never been >"loaded") have what seems to be to be a "special" behavior, one that is