On 4/14/2011 9:51 AM, Bob Hinden wrote:
My concern is that this proposed change would likely make the IAOC work
worse. That is, I think it would have a negative impact on the operations of
the IETF and that is why I am concerned.
Bob,
That is a concrete and basic assertion. Please put
Russ,
On 4/14/2011 2:13 PM, Russ Housley wrote:
The proposed update to BCP 101 permits further delegation of the IAOC voting
position. While I do not see myself taking advantage of this new feature, I do
think we should give future IETF Chairs this option. It is a cohesive part of
the
Jari:
Russ, Olaf, how much do you normally participate the IAOC work? Are you in
the subcommittees, do you work on details of agreements with our service
providers?
As I said in my previous note, I participate in some committees, but not all of
them. I am very active in the tools-related
Dave:
The proposed update to BCP 101 permits further delegation of the IAOC voting
position. While I do not see myself taking advantage of this new feature, I
do think we should give future IETF Chairs this option. It is a cohesive
part of the work that can be delegated. Some
On 2011-04-14 06:19, Bob Hinden wrote:
Olaf,
On Apr 2, 2011, at 1:28 AM, Olaf Kolkman wrote:
[as editor:]
It seems that the high order bit of this discussion circles
around the question on whether it a requirement for the
IETF Chair to have a voting position in order to
effectively
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On Apr 14, 2011, at 9:17 AM, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
On 2011-04-14 06:19, Bob Hinden wrote:
Olaf,
On Apr 2, 2011, at 1:28 AM, Olaf Kolkman wrote:
[as editor:]
It seems that the high order bit of this discussion circles
around the
--On Wednesday, April 13, 2011 11:19 -0700 Bob Hinden
bob.hin...@gmail.com wrote:
Olaf,
On Apr 2, 2011, at 1:28 AM, Olaf Kolkman wrote:
[as editor:]
It seems that the high order bit of this discussion circles
around the question on whether it a requirement for the IETF
Chair to
John,
On 2011-04-15 01:10, John C Klensin wrote:
...
But, remembering that the IASA has only the purpose of making
the extended IETF (including the IAB) work more efficiently, I
see a somewhat different question. The roles and resource
requirements of the IAB and IETF Chairs have expanded
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Certainly the IASA/IAD/IAOC reorganisation produced a noticeable
reduction in the IETF Chair workload, but what has changed since
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-carpenter-ietf-chair-tasks-00 ?
It would be good to have a similar analysis for
Brian,
On Apr 14, 2011, at 8:34 AM, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
John,
On 2011-04-15 01:10, John C Klensin wrote:
...
But, remembering that the IASA has only the purpose of making
the extended IETF (including the IAB) work more efficiently, I
see a somewhat different question. The roles and
Brian:
I'd really like to hear from
Olaf, Bernard and Russ what has changed in the workload in the
last few years.
I am fortunate that my sponsorship situation lets me spend almost full time on
the IETF Chair position. Even so, there are aspects of the job that exceed
full time. I am not
Russ,
The proposed update to BCP 101 permits further delegation of the IAOC voting
position. While I do not see myself taking advantage of this new feature, I
do think we should give future IETF Chairs this option. It is a cohesive
part of the work that can be delegated. Some
On Thu, 14 Apr 2011, Bob Hinden wrote:
Russ,
This prompts me to ask a question. Who would the IETF Chair
delegate this responsibility to? The draft doesn't specify.
I am thinking it would be someone like the IESG Secretary (if there is
such a person), and I mean a member of the
Speaking as an individual, but an individual who helped set up this
structure and who sat in the non-delegated ex officio IAB Chair position
on the IAOC (and IETF Trust) for a couple of years, let me offer some
comments.
As Bob noted, elsewhere in the thread, your draft does not describe
Bob:
The proposed update to BCP 101 permits further delegation of the IAOC voting
position. While I do not see myself taking advantage of this new feature, I
do think we should give future IETF Chairs this option. It is a cohesive
part of the work that can be delegated. Some
On Apr 14, 2011, at 5:01 AM, Olaf Kolkman wrote:
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On Apr 14, 2011, at 9:17 AM, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
On 2011-04-14 06:19, Bob Hinden wrote:
Olaf,
On Apr 2, 2011, at 1:28 AM, Olaf Kolkman wrote:
[as editor:]
It seems that the
Olaf,
On Apr 2, 2011, at 1:28 AM, Olaf Kolkman wrote:
[as editor:]
It seems that the high order bit of this discussion circles around the
question on whether it a requirement for the IETF Chair to have a voting
position in order to effectively perform oversight. Once we figured out
[as editor:]
It seems that the high order bit of this discussion circles around the question
on whether it a requirement for the IETF Chair to have a voting position in
order to effectively perform oversight. Once we figured out where we want to go
with that we can think about delegation by
Brian,
On Apr 1, 2011, at 6:36 AM, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
On 2011-04-01 08:38, SM wrote:
Hi Brian,
At 00:07 31-03-2011, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
And that is exactly the problem with 'non-voting' status in a committee
that mainly operates by consensus. It allows people who really ought
to
On 2011-03-31 08:52, SM wrote:
...
My reading of John's proposal (draft-klensin-iaoc-member-00) is that it
is framed in such a way to avoid some of the issues that can occur with
draft-kolkman-iasa-ex-officio-membership-00. When delegating
responsibility, one should also consider
Hi Brian,
At 00:07 31-03-2011, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
And that is exactly the problem with 'non-voting' status in a committee
that mainly operates by consensus. It allows people who really ought
to share accountability to apear to avoid it.
According to IOAC procedures:
All decisions of
On 2011-04-01 08:38, SM wrote:
Hi Brian,
At 00:07 31-03-2011, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
And that is exactly the problem with 'non-voting' status in a committee
that mainly operates by consensus. It allows people who really ought
to share accountability to apear to avoid it.
According to
On 3/30/11 1:21 PM, Olaf Kolkman wrote:
Dear Colleagues,
I have just chartered a very short draft that intends to update BCP101. It can
be found at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kolkman-iasa-ex-officio-membership
The draft is very short and contains only a few sentences of substance:
Op 30 mrt. 2011 om 13:35 heeft Bert (IETF) Wijnen berti...@bwijnen.net het
volgende geschreven:
On 3/30/11 1:21 PM, Olaf Kolkman wrote:
Dear Colleagues,
I have just chartered a very short draft that intends to update BCP101. It
can be found at:
Good; I've been suggesting this for some time also.
The IETF chair, the IAB chair, and the ISOC President/CEO may
delegate their responsibilities to other persons. The delegations by
the IETF chair and the IAB chair need to be confirmed by the IESG and
IAB respectively. The terms of
On 2011-03-31 00:21, Olaf Kolkman wrote:
Dear Colleagues,
I have just chartered a very short draft that intends to update BCP101. It
can be found at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kolkman-iasa-ex-officio-membership
The draft is very short and contains only a few sentences of
On 3/30/2011 5:11 AM, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
...
I find myself very torn on this proposal. Believe me, I understand the
workload issue. But on the other hand, at the very beginning of my
time as IETF Chair, I experienced the *previous* workload issue,
when there was no IASA, IAD or IAOC.
On 3/30/11 5:11 AM, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
I'm very concerned about the IETF Chair getting decoupled
from the IAOC. The IETF Chair's job is a whole lot more than being
IESG Chair, and some degree of personal responsibility for oversight of
the administrative work seems to me to be
The IETF chair, the IAB chair, and the ISOC President/CEO may
delegate their responsibilities to other persons. The delegations by
the IETF chair and the IAB chair need to be confirmed by the IESG and
IAB respectively. The terms of delegation is for a longer term for
instance
Olaf,
I have just chartered a very short draft that intends to update BCP101. It
can be found at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kolkman-iasa-ex-officio-membership
The draft is very short and contains only a few sentences of substance:
The IETF chair, the IAB chair, and the ISOC
I'm very concerned about the IETF Chair getting decoupled
from the IAOC. The IETF Chair's job is a whole lot more than being
IESG Chair, and some degree of personal responsibility for oversight of
the administrative work seems to me to be appropriate.
So I'm not at all sure this delegation
I agree with Henk's modification -- in fact, my brain read it into it
already, which is why I didn't say it too. The delegation should only
be allowed to another member of the delegator's body.
I think you mean:
The delegation is for an one year term, aligned with the IAB and IESG
On 2011-03-31 01:26, Barry Leiba wrote:
I'm very concerned about the IETF Chair getting decoupled
from the IAOC. The IETF Chair's job is a whole lot more than being
IESG Chair, and some degree of personal responsibility for oversight of
the administrative work seems to me to be appropriate.
Brian:
Dear Colleagues,
I have just chartered a very short draft that intends to update BCP101. It
can be found at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kolkman-iasa-ex-officio-membership
The draft is very short and contains only a few sentences of substance:
The IETF chair, the IAB
: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 7:29 AM
Subject: Re: IAOC: delegating ex-officio responsibility
I agree with Henk's modification -- in fact, my brain read it into it
already, which is why I didn't say it too. The delegation should only
be allowed to another member of the delegator's body.
I think you mean
On 2011-03-31 01:44, Russ Housley wrote:
Brian:
Dear Colleagues,
I have just chartered a very short draft that intends to update BCP101. It
can be found at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kolkman-iasa-ex-officio-membership
The draft is very short and contains only a few sentences of
I was not assuming that delegation was limited to another member of the same
NomCom-reviewed body. One case was that you might delegate to a
NomCom-reviewed member who then leaves the NomCom-reviewed body. If the
NomCom-reviewed chair and the NomCom-reviewed body were OK with that person
Brian == Brian E Carpenter Brian writes:
Brian I find myself very torn on this proposal. Believe me, I
Brian understand the workload issue. But on the other hand, at the
Brian very beginning of my time as IETF Chair, I experienced the
Brian *previous* workload issue, when there
Minor point: I think the proposal is to delegate authority but not to
relinquish responsibility.
Steve
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 30, 2011, at 8:32 AM, Michael StJohns mstjo...@comcast.net wrote:
Some suggestions:
Replace delegate their responsibilities with , by written action,
Olaf,
On Mar 30, 2011, at 1:21 PM, Olaf Kolkman wrote:
Dear Colleagues,
I have just chartered a very short draft that intends to update BCP101. It
can be found at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kolkman-iasa-ex-officio-membership
The draft is very short and contains only a few
On 3/30/11 6:26 AM, Bob Hinden wrote:
With my IAOC hat on, I am concerned about the delegation of these
roles to the IAOC. I think the community has been well served by the
IAOC having the IETF chair, IAB chair, and ISOC President as full
voting members of the IAOC. It has kept the IAOC
Michael,
I got the impression that the purpose of this was that the IETF Chair
could ask someone else to attend a meeting (I specifically do not mean
an IETF meeting) on s/he behalf.
My impression is that it was for a long term delegation. Sounds like it should
be clarified.
Bob
A
Barry,
Ah. Why, then? Shouldn't the delegation be at the pleasure of the
delegator, without an explicit term? If the officer sees the need to
reclaim the ex-officio position directly, she should be allowed to.
If the officer thinks the delegate isn't doing well, she should be
able to change
On 3/30/2011 1:21 PM, Olaf Kolkman wrote:
The main difference is between his and this draft is that John's I-D makes
the person the chair delegates to a non-voting liaison. I have a small
preference for the IAB and the IESG keeping the control point,
I promise that what follows is not
So my brain then went to:
The ex officio positions are non-voting liaisons, delegated or not,
but they also should appoint a person who is /not/ from their body as a
voting person.
IMHO your brain went to the wrong place ;-)
The IETF Chair is not a liaison for goodness sake - s/he is
Hi Olaf,
At 04:21 30-03-2011, Olaf Kolkman wrote:
I have just chartered a very short draft that intends to update
BCP101. It can be found at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kolkman-iasa-ex-officio-membership
In Section 2:
The terms of delegation is for a longer term for
instance
Hi, Brian,
On 3/30/2011 5:38 AM, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
On 2011-03-31 01:18, Joe Touch wrote:
On 3/30/2011 5:11 AM, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
...
I find myself very torn on this proposal. Believe me, I understand the
workload issue. But on the other hand, at the very beginning of my
time
On Mar 30, 2011, at 5:42 PM, SM wrote:
Hi Olaf,
At 04:21 30-03-2011, Olaf Kolkman wrote:
I have just chartered a very short draft that intends to update BCP101. It
can be found at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kolkman-iasa-ex-officio-membership
In Section 2:
The terms of
On Mar 30, 2011, at 9:26 AM, Bob Hinden wrote:
Olaf,
On Mar 30, 2011, at 1:21 PM, Olaf Kolkman wrote:
Dear Colleagues,
I have just chartered a very short draft that intends to update BCP101. It
can be found at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kolkman-iasa-ex-officio-membership
Hi Olaf,
First of all, I would like to say that I appreciate the answers you
have provided over the years as IAB Chair and the patience you have displayed.
At 09:52 30-03-2011, Olaf Kolkman wrote:
The point of this paragraph is that, when a new chair joins the
chair and get a feel for what
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