Re: [Ietf-dkim] Headers that should not be automatically oversigned in a DKIM signature?

2024-01-19 Thread John R Levine
Manfred said: (Seems like "seal"ing would be a better term than "oversign"ing.) We've called it oversigning for a decade now. R's, John ___ Ietf-dkim mailing list Ietf-dkim@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-dkim

Re: [Ietf-dkim] Headers that should not be automatically oversigned in a DKIM signature?

2024-01-19 Thread Steffen Nurpmeso
John Levine wrote in <20240119192026.dedff8104...@ary.qy>: |It appears that Evan Burke said: |>> Insisting on using the same term for these two different cases has an |>> academic purity to it, but has already been demonstrated to be destructi\ |>> ve |>> in practical terms, because it

Re: [Ietf-dkim] Headers that should not be automatically oversigned in a DKIM signature?

2024-01-19 Thread Steffen Nurpmeso
Dave Crocker wrote in <54bcc79e-2cec-4c49-8a5c-0ef64db68...@dcrocker.net>: |On 1/19/2024 6:51 AM, Al Iverson wrote: ... |[.]the scenario of |sending to a collaborating receiver and re-posting a message that has no |differences except the envelope rcpt-to value, does not have a know

Re: [Ietf-dkim] Headers that should not be automatically oversigned in a DKIM signature?

2024-01-19 Thread Steffen Nurpmeso
Steffen Nurpmeso wrote in <20240120002211.9zE1qqLr@steffen%sdaoden.eu>: ... |[.]people which[.] So that is "people who", and then i wanted to apologise for naming Mr. Kucherawy "Kucheraway" in one of all those of my posts. Have a nice weekend i wish from Germany, --steffen | |Der Kragenbaer,

Re: [Ietf-dkim] Headers that should not be automatically oversigned in a DKIM signature?

2024-01-19 Thread Steffen Nurpmeso
Emanuel Schorsch wrote in : |I don't have a strong horse in this race. But I'll just chime in that from |my perspective I was thinking of both of these as DKIM Replay. I have been |calling any case where the DKIM signature is not broken and the spammer |resends multiple copies as DKIM Replay.

Re: [Ietf-dkim] Headers that should not be automatically oversigned in a DKIM signature?

2024-01-19 Thread Steffen Nurpmeso
Steffen Nurpmeso wrote in <20240119235632.VOlkKoIX@steffen%sdaoden.eu>: |Dave Crocker wrote in | <54bcc79e-2cec-4c49-8a5c-0ef64db68...@dcrocker.net>: ||On 1/19/2024 6:51 AM, Al Iverson wrote: ... ||[.]does not have a know ||solution. | |There would be a RFC 6376 backward compatible

Re: [Ietf-dkim] Headers that should not be automatically oversigned in a DKIM signature?

2024-01-19 Thread Emanuel Schorsch
I don't have a strong horse in this race. But I'll just chime in that from my perspective I was thinking of both of these as DKIM Replay. I have been calling any case where the DKIM signature is not broken and the spammer resends multiple copies as DKIM Replay. On Fri, Jan 19, 2024 at 11:20 AM

Re: [Ietf-dkim] Headers that should not be automatically oversigned in a DKIM signature?

2024-01-19 Thread John Levine
It appears that Evan Burke said: >> Insisting on using the same term for these two different cases has an >> academic purity to it, but has already been demonstrated to be destructive >> in practical terms, because it creates confused discussion. >No, that's exactly backwards. The oversigning

Re: [Ietf-dkim] Headers that should not be automatically oversigned in a DKIM signature?

2024-01-19 Thread Evan Burke
On Fri, Jan 19, 2024 at 7:01 AM Dave Crocker wrote: > On 1/19/2024 6:51 AM, Al Iverson wrote: > > I'm > sort of boggling at the attempt to keep potential header changes and > DKIM oversigning out of the exploit definition and potential solution > consideration. I just don't think it makes sense

Re: [Ietf-dkim] Headers that should not be automatically oversigned in a DKIM signature?

2024-01-19 Thread Dave Crocker
On 1/19/2024 6:51 AM, Al Iverson wrote: I'm sort of boggling at the attempt to keep potential header changes and DKIM oversigning out of the exploit definition and potential solution consideration. I just don't think it makes sense to exclude this. It makes sense because oversigning is

Re: [Ietf-dkim] Headers that should not be automatically oversigned in a DKIM signature?

2024-01-19 Thread Al Iverson
I don't know what other people have decided off in spec land to call this, but here what I'm seeing is somebody taking a message, adding headers (or not), re-injecting the message to another recipient, it being received with DKIM signature intact, that's DKIM replay. I'm sort of boggling at the