Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: RFC Workflow & Voting (2019 update)

Hi! I haven't fully read the RFC yet, so I'll come back with more formed opinion about it probably, but wanted to comment about a couple of points here: > Reasoning: If somebody is out of the project for 10 years they probably > lost track on how the language and needs evolved and just voting

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC Abolish Narrow Margins

Morning Stas, and all, This discussion was ... a mess, partly my fault, I suppose. I said I was going to bring it up for voting quickly on the say so of Nikita, and because it feels urgent to us, you can guess our reasons for that. I'm not going to argue back and forth for the next week about

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC Abolish Narrow Margins

Hi! > Let me reply to the last point first, because I think that's really the > crux here: The issue is not that this RFC is very urgent per se, it's that > it has already been delayed numerous times and it is imperative that we > prevent that from happening again. Since this issue was first

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: RFC Workflow & Voting (2019 update)

On Thursday, January 31, 2019 12:17:02 PM CST Chase Peeler wrote: > On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 11:52 AM Zeev Suraski wrote: > > On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 5:58 PM Kalle Sommer Nielsen > > > > wrote: > > > Hi Zeev > > > > > > Den tor. 31. jan. 2019 kl. 15.44 skrev Zeev Suraski : > > > > Without

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] JIT

On Thursday, January 31, 2019 12:30:52 PM CST Chase Peeler wrote: > On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 12:04 PM Zeev Suraski wrote: > > On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 6:47 PM Kalle Sommer Nielsen > > > > wrote: > > > Without my usual Windows bias, I do believe it is a considerable fact > > > like Nikita pointed

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: patch for imap bug 77153

Hi! > Hi! > > > Anyhow, this is water under the bridge now, and I think we should > issue > > a call for maintainership[4] for ext/imap as soon as possible, since > > this is not the only issue[5] of this unmaintained[6] extension. > > Pierre is listed as maintainer. But

Re: [PHP-DEV] Deprecation ideas for PHP 8

> The problem comes if the share using the old names *doesn't* decline enough (and how would we even know?). We can't survey private projects, but we can run automated analysis tools on a large number of open-source projects available on GitHub, and compile statistics from them. I'd be happy to

[PHP-DEV] Re: [VOTE] RFC: Unbundle ext/wddx

Hi! The voting on has ended, and it has unanimously been decided (30:0) to remove (aka. unbundle) ext/wddx; it has also been decided (19:4:3:2) to deprecate the extension and move it to PECL. Thanks to all voters! I'll provide a patch

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: RFC Workflow & Voting (2019 update)

Den tor. 31. jan. 2019 kl. 20.17 skrev Chase Peeler : > I don't know if there is a good way to implement it, but I definitely think > there is value in some sort of voice being given to those that use PHP to > build things, but don't contribute to the actual source. > > I think it's important,

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHAR maintainer?

Hi! > Do I need to request any special git access or just keep doing the usual > PR process? For now, just keep the PRs - ping me and/or this list if they linger too long without review. Eventually I assume we'd just setup you access to ext/phar but PRs seem to be good way for now to start

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] JIT

Den tor. 31. jan. 2019 kl. 19.04 skrev Zeev Suraski : > As long as we can agree that very few actually deploy on Windows, I think > we're on solid grounds. > As the JIT implementation is likely to have at least some significant > differences compared to Linux, I'm not sure what testing it on

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHAR maintainer?

On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 3:13 PM Stanislav Malyshev wrote: > Hi! > > > I've been fixing phar bugs here and there over the last year, and I'm > > happy to take on a more diligent process to maintain ext/phar officially. > > > > Do we have, anywhere, a maintainers guide that talks about the > >

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHAR maintainer?

Hi! > I've been fixing phar bugs here and there over the last year, and I'm > happy to take on a more diligent process to maintain ext/phar officially. > > Do we have, anywhere, a maintainers guide that talks about the > maintainers' responsibilities? First of all, thanks for volunteering!

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: patch for imap bug 77153

On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 7:27 PM Stanislav Malyshev wrote: > Hi! > > > Anyhow, this is water under the bridge now, and I think we should issue > > a call for maintainership[4] for ext/imap as soon as possible, since > > this is not the only issue[5] of this unmaintained[6] extension. > > Pierre

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHAR maintainer?

On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 9:01 PM Stanislav Malyshev wrote: > Hi! > > PHAR is pretty widely used component of PHP ecosystem, as I understand, > but all people listed as maintainers for the extension haven't been > active in the project for a decade. Is there somebody still willing to > take care

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: RFC Workflow & Voting (2019 update)

On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 9:07 AM Zeev Suraski wrote: > On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 3:53 PM Kris Craig wrote: > > > I think you may be over-reaching a bit on the eligible voters part. Keep > > in mind that all those who would be affected would still be able to vote > on > > this RFC. I think it's

[PHP-DEV] PHP 7.2.15RC1 is available for testing

Hi, PHP 7.2.15RC1 has just been released and can be downloaded from: Or use the git tag: php-7.2.15RC1 The Windows binaries are supposed to be shortly available at: Please test it carefully, and report any bugs in the bug

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] JIT

On 1/31/19 9:12 PM, Derick Rethans wrote: > On Thu, 31 Jan 2019, Dmitry Stogov wrote: > >> >> >> On 1/31/19 8:08 PM, Derick Rethans wrote: >>> On Thu, 31 Jan 2019, Dmitry Stogov wrote: >>> I'm glad to finally propose including JIT into PHP. https://wiki.php.net/rfc/jit >>> >>> I

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] JIT

On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 12:04 PM Zeev Suraski wrote: > On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 6:47 PM Kalle Sommer Nielsen > wrote: > > > Without my usual Windows bias, I do believe it is a considerable fact > > like Nikita pointed out as Windows is a first class citizen in terms > > of operating systems we

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC Abolish Narrow Margins

Hi, On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 5:28 PM Zeev Suraski wrote: > > Secondly - the threshold and voting eligibility are not, in any way, > independent. They're two fundamental aspects of the same topic - how votes > take place. A 2/3 majority out of a subset of ~200-300 people is very > different from

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: RFC Workflow & Voting (2019 update)

On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 11:52 AM Zeev Suraski wrote: > On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 5:58 PM Kalle Sommer Nielsen > wrote: > > > Hi Zeev > > > > Den tor. 31. jan. 2019 kl. 15.44 skrev Zeev Suraski : > > > > > > Without further ado, an RFC that’s attempting to comprehensively solve > > many of the

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] JIT

On Thu, 31 Jan 2019, Dmitry Stogov wrote: > > > On 1/31/19 8:08 PM, Derick Rethans wrote: > > On Thu, 31 Jan 2019, Dmitry Stogov wrote: > > > >> I'm glad to finally propose including JIT into PHP. > >> > >> https://wiki.php.net/rfc/jit > > > > I don't see anywhere in this RFC how it would

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC Abolish Narrow Margins

On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 7:00 PM Nikita Popov wrote: > Let me reply to the last point first, because I think that's really the > crux here: The issue is not that this RFC is very urgent per se, it's that > it has already been delayed numerous times and it is imperative that we > prevent that from

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] JIT

On 1/31/19 8:08 PM, Derick Rethans wrote: > On Thu, 31 Jan 2019, Dmitry Stogov wrote: > >> I'm glad to finally propose including JIT into PHP. >> >> https://wiki.php.net/rfc/jit > > I don't see anywhere in this RFC how it would affect thigns that do > sneaky things with internals, such as

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] JIT

On Thu, 31 Jan 2019, Dmitry Stogov wrote: > I'm glad to finally propose including JIT into PHP. > > https://wiki.php.net/rfc/jit I don't see anywhere in this RFC how it would affect thigns that do sneaky things with internals, such as Xdebug. How is that going to be affected? > In the

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] JIT

On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 6:47 PM Kalle Sommer Nielsen wrote: > Without my usual Windows bias, I do believe it is a considerable fact > like Nikita pointed out as Windows is a first class citizen in terms > of operating systems we support. While PHP on Windows may not have the > speed that the

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC Abolish Narrow Margins

On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 4:27 PM Zeev Suraski wrote: > > > On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 4:55 PM Nikita Popov wrote: > >> I agree with Joe here that we should handle the question of voting margins >> separately. Your RFC is a much more comprehensive reform, which contains a >> number of points that

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC Abolish Narrow Margins

On 1/31/19 7:23 PM, Joe Watkins wrote: > Hi Zeev, Dmitry, > > It is not my only concern, I'm grateful for the clarification whatever. > > These are your actual words from the RFC: > > > This works, but this functionality is not supported on all libffi > platforms, it is not efficient and

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: RFC Workflow & Voting (2019 update)

On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 5:58 PM Kalle Sommer Nielsen wrote: > Hi Zeev > > Den tor. 31. jan. 2019 kl. 15.44 skrev Zeev Suraski : > > > > Without further ado, an RFC that’s attempting to comprehensively solve > many of the issues that have plagued our RFC process since it was hastily > introduced

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: RFC Workflow & Voting (2019 update)

On Do, 2019-01-31 at 15:44 +0200, Zeev Suraski wrote: > Without further ado, an RFC that’s attempting to comprehensively > solve many of the issues that have plagued our RFC process since it > was hastily introduced in 2011: > > https://wiki.php.net/rfc/voting2019 > Being mostly outside I

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] JIT

Den tor. 31. jan. 2019 kl. 18.39 skrev Dmitry Stogov : > > > > On 1/31/19 7:01 PM, Nikita Popov wrote: > > On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 10:44 AM Dmitry Stogov > > wrote: > > > > Hi Internals, > > > > > > I'm glad to finally propose including JIT into PHP. > > > > > >

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC Abolish Narrow Margins

On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 5:56 PM Joe Watkins wrote: > When I refer to "you", I really mean you and Dmitry, while you don't have > a hive mind, you do act as one, or for one another in a lot of cases. If > I'm wrong about that, I apologise. > You are wrong, apology accepted. > > I would say

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] JIT

On 1/31/19 7:01 PM, Nikita Popov wrote: > On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 10:44 AM Dmitry Stogov > wrote: > > Hi Internals, > > > I'm glad to finally propose including JIT into PHP. > > > https://wiki.php.net/rfc/jit > > > In the current state it may be

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC Abolish Narrow Margins

Hi Zeev, Dmitry, It is not my only concern, I'm grateful for the clarification whatever. These are your actual words from the RFC: > This works, but this functionality is not supported on all libffi platforms, it is not efficient and leaks resources by the end of request. It's recommended to

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC Abolish Narrow Margins

On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 6:09 PM Dmitry Stogov wrote: > The fact that FFI may leak, is because it uses "unmanaged memory" (like > in real C). PHP reference counting and GC just can't handle all the > cases. It's impossible to automatically know what to do with C pointer, > when we get it from

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: RFC Workflow & Voting (2019 update)

Hi Kris Den tor. 31. jan. 2019 kl. 18.03 skrev Kris Craig : > Given how complex and controversial this question of restricting who can vote > is, I propose that it be moved to its own RFC instead of being bundled with > this one. It would certainly boost likelihood of passage, if nothing else,

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC Abolish Narrow Margins

Hi Joe, On 1/31/19 6:56 PM, Joe Watkins wrote: > Afternoon Zeev, > >> I'll happily take your interpretation of it. No hard feelings. > > Thanks, you know I don't have another way of being :) > > When I refer to "you", I really mean you and Dmitry, while you don't have a > hive mind, you do

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: RFC Workflow & Voting (2019 update)

On Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 7:58 AM Kalle Sommer Nielsen Hi Zeev > > Den tor. 31. jan. 2019 kl. 15.44 skrev Zeev Suraski : > > > > Without further ado, an RFC that’s attempting to comprehensively solve > many of the issues that have plagued our RFC process since it was hastily > introduced in 2011: > >

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] JIT

On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 10:44 AM Dmitry Stogov wrote: > Hi Internals, > > > I'm glad to finally propose including JIT into PHP. > > > https://wiki.php.net/rfc/jit > > > In the current state it may be included both into PHP-8, where we are > going to continue active improvement, and into PHP-7.4,

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: RFC Workflow & Voting (2019 update)

Hi Zeev Den tor. 31. jan. 2019 kl. 15.44 skrev Zeev Suraski : > > Without further ado, an RFC that’s attempting to comprehensively solve many > of the issues that have plagued our RFC process since it was hastily > introduced in 2011: > > > > https://wiki.php.net/rfc/voting2019 I

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC Abolish Narrow Margins

Afternoon Zeev, > I'll happily take your interpretation of it. No hard feelings. Thanks, you know I don't have another way of being :) When I refer to "you", I really mean you and Dmitry, while you don't have a hive mind, you do act as one, or for one another in a lot of cases. If I'm wrong

[PHP-DEV] Refactor zend_object_handlers API to pass zend_object* and zend_string* insted of zval(s)

Hi Nikita, We already discussed this few months ago in context of PHP-7.4. Please review the updated PR for master. https://github.com/php/php-src/pull/3780 Thanks. Dmitry.

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC Abolish Narrow Margins

On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 4:55 PM Nikita Popov wrote: > I agree with Joe here that we should handle the question of voting margins > separately. Your RFC is a much more comprehensive reform, which contains a > number of points that look highly controversial to me (such as the eligible > voter

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC Abolish Narrow Margins

On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 4:27 PM Joe Watkins wrote: > Afternoon Zeev, > > I'm going to use unambiguous and direct language to make sure my intentions > and concerns are communicated clearly, you can either receive this as a > personal attack, or as a contributor being direct, I would prefer the >

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC Abolish Narrow Margins

On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 2:07 PM Zeev Suraski wrote: > >-Original Message- > >From: Joe Watkins > >Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2019 2:59 PM > >To: internals@lists.php.net > >Subject: [PHP-DEV] RFC Abolish Narrow Margins > > > >Afternoon internals, > > > >Some time ago I brought up for

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC Abolish Narrow Margins

Afternoon Zeev, I'm going to use unambiguous and direct language to make sure my intentions and concerns are communicated clearly, you can either receive this as a personal attack, or as a contributor being direct, I would prefer the latter. Let us be clear about the things you are doing: You

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: RFC Workflow & Voting (2019 update)

On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 3:53 PM Kris Craig wrote: > I think you may be over-reaching a bit on the eligible voters part. Keep > in mind that all those who would be affected would still be able to vote on > this RFC. I think it's too restrictive on that part. > I realized that this part of the

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: RFC Workflow & Voting (2019 update)

I think you may be over-reaching a bit on the eligible voters part. Keep in mind that all those who would be affected would still be able to vote on this RFC. I think it's too restrictive on that part. Also, why does FIG get special treatment? --Kris On Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 5:44 AM Zeev

[PHP-DEV] RFC: RFC Workflow & Voting (2019 update)

Without further ado, an RFC that’s attempting to comprehensively solve many of the issues that have plagued our RFC process since it was hastily introduced in 2011: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/voting2019 Emphasis on ‘attempting’. I’m sure there are still a lot of holes in it that should

RE: [PHP-DEV] RFC Abolish Narrow Margins

Joe, First, you have to wait an absolute minimum of one week, and arguably two weeks, from the point in time you say you intend to move ahead with the RFC for a vote. That’s per the ratified Voting RFC, this really isn’t up for the individual RFC author to decide. It’s clear that an author

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC Abolish Narrow Margins

Afternoon Zeev, I imagine you will not like what I have to say either: In light of the recent actions you have taken and are taking to push incomplete software into php-src on narrow margins, prematurely, it makes perfect sense to discuss margins independently, and I intend to do so. Your opinion

RE: [PHP-DEV] RFC Abolish Narrow Margins

>-Original Message- >From: Joe Watkins >Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2019 2:59 PM >To: internals@lists.php.net >Subject: [PHP-DEV] RFC Abolish Narrow Margins > >Afternoon internals, > >Some time ago I brought up for discussion: >https://wiki.php.net/rfc/abolish-narrow-margins > >I intend

[PHP-DEV] RFC Abolish Narrow Margins

Afternoon internals, Some time ago I brought up for discussion: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/abolish-narrow-margins I intend to bring this up for vote in the next few days. Cheers Joe

[PHP-DEV] RFC: Abolish Narrow Margins

Afternoon internals, Some time ago I brought up for discussion: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/abolish-narrow-margins I intend to bring this up for vote in the next few days. Cheers Joe

Re: [PHP-DEV] Deprecation ideas for PHP 8

On Thu, 31 Jan 2019 at 10:53, Benjamin Morel wrote: > Please forgive my stubborness, too. I fail to see how WordPress supporting > PHP versions that have been EOL for YEARS can be of any help to the > community? > I agree, it probably doesn't help the community; but it happens, both in open

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] JIT

JIT, FFI, covariant return types and typed properties: what a year for PHP. Thank you all for working on making PHP better and better. - Marcos Em qui, 31 de jan de 2019 às 08:54, Dmitry Stogov escreveu: > > > On 1/31/19 1:15 PM, Albert Casademont wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > This is fantastic

Re: [PHP-DEV] Deprecation ideas for PHP 8

On 31.01.2019 at 08:34, Peter Kokot wrote: > The RFC: Consistent function names [1] shows the magnitude of this. I > don't think every function listed there needs a change so it can be > greatly reduced. But still this can be done in several years to 10 > years or so (measuring over the thumb). >

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] JIT

On 1/31/19 1:15 PM, Albert Casademont wrote: > Hi all, > > This is fantastic news thank you! I was going to ask if JIT would also > work when Opcache is enabled with "opcache.file_cache_only". Unfortunately, not yet, but we are planning to move opcache into PHP-8 core and allow optimization

Re: [PHP-DEV] Deprecation ideas for PHP 8

Please forgive my stubborness, too. I fail to see how WordPress supporting PHP versions that have been EOL for YEARS can be of any help to the community? These versions may have unpatched security holes, and encouraging users to keep using them is a disfavour to the community IMO, which can only

Re: [PHP-DEV] Deprecation ideas for PHP 8

On Thu, 31 Jan 2019 at 07:34, Peter Kokot wrote: > Sorry, I didn't put my words correctly here. Not inconsistency. > Inconsistency is a fact, yes. I've meant the incapability of doing > something to fix this inconsistency. And it is becoming some sort of > stubborn belief and less and less

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] JIT

Just want to say that this is HUGE, thanks so much for the work done here, can't wait to try it out, hopefully this will land in PHP 7.4! Ben On Thu, 31 Jan 2019 at 10:44, Dmitry Stogov wrote: > Hi Internals, > > > I'm glad to finally propose including JIT into PHP. > > >

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] JIT

Hi all, This is fantastic news thank you! I was going to ask if JIT would also work when Opcache is enabled with "opcache.file_cache_only". Our use case is a ReactPHP app that right now only has Opcache basically for the optimizations and we do not use the standard shared memory portion. We

[PHP-DEV] [RFC] JIT

Hi Internals, I'm glad to finally propose including JIT into PHP. https://wiki.php.net/rfc/jit In the current state it may be included both into PHP-8, where we are going to continue active improvement, and into PHP-7.4, as an experimental feature. Thanks. Dmitry.