[PHP-DEV] [request #48542] addition of optional second parameter to array_shift/array_pop which gives key

2012-07-13 Thread Andrew Faulds
as essentially look-up tables before. -- Andrew Faulds (AJF) http://ajf.me/ -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

[PHP-DEV] array_last_key() function

2012-07-13 Thread Andrew Faulds
extension function, and PHP test I've written. -- Andrew Faulds (AJF) http://ajf.me/ -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

[PHP-DEV] Re: array_last_key() function

2012-07-13 Thread Andrew Faulds
Changed, it now takes just an array. Function signature: mixed array_last_key(array $array) On 13 July 2012 23:31, Andrew Faulds ajf...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi there, I'm proposing a function called array_last_key(), that takes a reference to an array, and returns the key of its last

[PHP-DEV] [proposal + pull request] Replace logo GUIDs with data URIs

2012-07-14 Thread Andrew Faulds
Hi there, This is a patch that replaces PHP's infamous logo GUIDs with data URIs instead, and also embed PHP credits in the phpinfo() page, hidden using JavaScript (but gracefully degrading), to eliminate these GUIDs altogether. :) https://github.com/php/php-src/pull/132 -- Andrew Faulds (AJF

Re: [PHP-DEV] Internal iteration API

2012-07-15 Thread Andrew Faulds
forwarding. On 16 July 2012 02:11, Larry Garfield la...@garfieldtech.com wrote: I think you meant to send that to the list. :-) --Larry Garfield On 07/15/2012 08:07 PM, Andrew Faulds wrote: It would be nice if PHP 6 unified the semantics of string/int/float/bool, arrays, and objects

Re: [PHP-DEV] 6.0 And Moving Forward

2012-07-16 Thread Andrew Faulds
Yeah, we could do something like Java: primitive typed and OOP wrapped types. On Jul 16, 2012 10:25 AM, Ralf Lang l...@b1-systems.de wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 1. Change the error handling system from the current E_* system to typed exceptions for everything but

Re: [PHP-DEV] Prototype PHP interpreter using the PyPy toolchain - Hippy VM

2012-07-16 Thread Andrew Faulds
the performance of the Zend Engine, if we would throw out everything, except the PHP 1.0 features: functions, arrays, ints, floats and strings not that we should do that, I just think that the numbers are somehow misleading. -- Ferenc Kovács @Tyr43l - http://tyrael.hu -- Andrew Faulds (AJF

Re: [PHP-DEV] supporting the final keyword for properties

2012-07-16 Thread Andrew Faulds
? Would this be viable? Is there any still-present reason why we shouldn't support that? -- Ferenc Kovács @Tyr43l - http://tyrael.hu -- Andrew Faulds (AJF) http://ajf.me/ -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC Proposal - Attributes read/write visibility

2012-07-16 Thread Andrew Faulds
To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- Andrew Faulds (AJF) http://ajf.me/ -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

Re: [PHP-DEV] supporting the final keyword for properties

2012-07-16 Thread Andrew Faulds
. This would add a second meaning which would be somewhat similar to const (but only somewhat). Nikita -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- Andrew Faulds (AJF) http://ajf.me/ -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PROPOSED] password_hash RFC - Implementing simplified password hashing functions

2012-07-16 Thread Andrew Faulds
Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- Andrew Faulds (AJF) http://ajf.me/ -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

Re: [PHP-DEV] Random string generation (á la password_make_salt)

2012-07-16 Thread Andrew Faulds
To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- Andrew Faulds (AJF) http://ajf.me/ -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

Re: [PHP-DEV] [PROPOSED] password_hash RFC - Implementing simplified password hashing functions

2012-07-16 Thread Andrew Faulds
. It is definitely something worth discussing, but is rather off-topic here. Definitely agree. Unless the discussion is specific to this RFC, please start a new thread for any commentary on errors in core... Anthony -- Andrew Faulds (AJF) http://ajf.me/ -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC Proposal - Attributes read/write visibility

2012-07-16 Thread Andrew Faulds
be very useful. But it doesn't work all the time. -- Andrew Faulds (AJF) http://ajf.me/ -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

Re: [PHP-DEV] Random string generation (á la password_make_salt)

2012-07-16 Thread Andrew Faulds
functions have it), I suggest that it is not part of random_string(). Make a new function str_from_character_class(), or if you use pcre like above pcre_str_from_character_class()? -- Alex Aulbach -- Andrew Faulds (AJF) http://ajf.me/ -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List

[PHP-DEV] Pseudo-objects (methods on arrays, strings, etc.)

2012-07-16 Thread Andrew Faulds
. I am working on an implementation of this for arrays, but I haven't got very far. However, for someone that knows the Zend engine internals, it does not appear to me that adding such things would be very difficult. Thoughts? -- Andrew Faulds (AJF) http://ajf.me/ -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime

Re: [PHP-DEV] 6.0 And Moving Forward

2012-07-17 Thread Andrew Faulds
That would be nice and all, but I'd rather we add methods to arrays. On Jul 17, 2012 1:26 AM, David Muir davidkm...@gmail.com wrote: On 14/07/12 01:33, Anthony Ferrara wrote: Hey all, I know that 6.0 was originally supposed to be the unicode conversion of the engine. However it appears

Re: [PHP-DEV] Pseudo-objects (methods on arrays, strings, etc.)

2012-07-17 Thread Andrew Faulds
I think strings are even more important, they have an even messier API than arrays. On Jul 17, 2012 11:07 AM, Pierre Joye pierre@gmail.com wrote: hi, On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 2:12 AM, Gustavo Lopes glo...@nebm.ist.utl.pt wrote: Let's ignore empty arguments like make[s] PHP feel modern.

Re: [PHP-DEV] Pseudo-objects (methods on arrays, strings, etc.)

2012-07-17 Thread Andrew Faulds
I might not have made it clear, but the main reasons I want it are: - Chance to clean up array/string/etc APIs - Looks nicer IMO, slightly clearer what functions do and affect On Jul 17, 2012 11:21 AM, Gustavo Lopes glo...@nebm.ist.utl.pt wrote: On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 12:07:09 +0200, Pierre Joye

Re: Re: [PHP-DEV] 6.0 And Moving Forward

2012-07-17 Thread Andrew Faulds
This is an excellent idea. Full BC yet without legacy cruft. Old code runs on legacy support extensions, new code doesn't need it. On Jul 17, 2012 1:51 PM, Leigh lei...@gmail.com wrote: Basically, the current function library is moved to the legacy namespace. The default setting is import

Re: [PHP-DEV] Pseudo-objects (methods on arrays, strings, etc.)

2012-07-17 Thread Andrew Faulds
Whilst weak typing has its benefits, I think typing is a little too weak in places. IMO should not be equal to 0 or coercable to 0. But of course 0 should equal 0. On Jul 17, 2012 3:04 PM, Rasmus Lerdorf ras...@lerdorf.com wrote: On 07/17/2012 03:07 AM, Pierre Joye wrote: hi, On Tue, Jul

Re: [PHP-DEV] 6.0 And Moving Forward

2012-07-17 Thread Andrew Faulds
The problem, of course, is changing and removing things can break BC. I'd love to remove list() too, but that would break code relying on it. On Jul 17, 2012 4:23 PM, Christoph Hochstrasser christoph.hochstras...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Some of the things I want to see in PHP 6: New designed

Re: [PHP-DEV] 6.0 And Moving Forward

2012-07-17 Thread Andrew Faulds
https://plus.google.com/101400775372325517263 @dancryer http://www.twitter.com/dancryer On 17 July 2012 16:32, Andrew Faulds ajf...@googlemail.com wrote: On Jul 17, 2012 4:23 PM, Christoph Hochstrasser christoph.hochstras...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Some of the things I want to see

Re: [PHP-DEV] 6.0 And Moving Forward

2012-07-18 Thread Andrew Faulds
of it, as with these legacy functions, would be a mistake)... My $0.02 at least. Anthony On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 9:41 AM, Andrew Faulds ajf...@googlemail.com wrote: This is an excellent idea. Full BC yet without legacy cruft. Old code runs on legacy support extensions, new code doesn't need

Re: [PHP-DEV] Docs: php.ini vs. parse_ini_file()

2012-07-18 Thread Andrew Faulds
Sounds good, search engines aren't always super smart. On Jul 18, 2012 1:20 AM, Kris Craig kris.cr...@gmail.com wrote: I just noticed something that I hadn't really thought about before. I couldn't remember the name of the function for parsing INI files so I did a quick search. It took me

Re: [PHP-DEV] Pseudo-objects (methods on arrays, strings, etc.)

2012-07-18 Thread Andrew Faulds
OK, ok. Let me clear some things up here. We don't want it to make things more object-oriented or whatever. The real motivation is to give us a chance to make a much cleaner, much nicer array API without breaking BC. We can keep the legacy array_* and unprefixed functions, but we can also create

Re: [PHP-DEV] Implicit isset in ternary operator

2012-07-18 Thread Andrew Faulds
Sounds good. CoffeeScript (a lightweight language with JS semantics that compiles to JS) has a existential operator, ?, and this looks similar and would be very nice. It's not the same thing, of course. It also reminds me of JavaScript's || behaviour. On Jul 18, 2012 3:24 PM, Rafael Dohms

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] foreach_variable supporting T_LIST

2012-07-18 Thread Andrew Faulds
Sounds great. Python has something similar for tuples, would be good if PHP had this. Are there any BC concerns? Don't see why this could break something. On Jul 18, 2012 3:50 PM, Laruence larue...@php.net wrote: Hi: this is not a new RFC, I proposed it before, but due to my poor

Re: [PHP-DEV] Pseudo-objects (methods on arrays, strings, etc.)

2012-07-18 Thread Andrew Faulds
) But OOP-like syntax on non-object data is still weird. The question about data manipulation behavior (is it a pointer like other objects or is it a scalar like existing array?) is a tough one. 2012/7/18 Andrew Faulds ajf...@googlemail.com OK, ok. Let me clear some things up here. We don't

Re: [PHP-DEV] Pseudo-objects (methods on arrays, strings, etc.)

2012-07-18 Thread Andrew Faulds
WHAT? Er, sorry, accidental capslock. This IS a new API. That was an example. I'm not saying just put - everywhere, I'm saying we can keep array_* and add a new set of - functions which are well-designed, consistent, etc. On Jul 18, 2012 5:35 PM, Stas Malyshev smalys...@sugarcrm.com wrote: Hi!

Re: [PHP-DEV] Pseudo-objects (methods on arrays, strings, etc.)

2012-07-18 Thread Andrew Faulds
Obviously. This is simply the means to provide the new API without breaking BC. If people think this is acceptable then sure, let's plan an API. On Jul 18, 2012 5:54 PM, Stas Malyshev smalys...@sugarcrm.com wrote: Hi! Er, sorry, accidental capslock. This IS a new API. That was an example.

Re: [PHP-DEV] 6.0 And Moving Forward

2012-07-18 Thread Andrew Faulds
:27 AM, Andrew Faulds ajf...@googlemail.comwrote: To avoid BC breaks we should try to avoid major syntax changes. We could make new applications hide legacy though, something like use new; which would remove deprecated and legacy functions from the global namespace. On Jul 18, 2012 12:16 AM

Re: [PHP-DEV] 6.0 And Moving Forward

2012-07-18 Thread Andrew Faulds
Kris, I'd love to break BC a lot and fix things, but it would seriously slow adoption. Fixing *bugs* has stopped people upgrading, imagine how they would react to non-bugs being changed. On Jul 18, 2012 7:21 PM, Kris Craig kris.cr...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 7:27 AM, Andrew

Re: [PHP-DEV] 6.0 And Moving Forward

2012-07-18 Thread Andrew Faulds
Chaos will surely be, if we break PHP5 code. It should work without modification. ?php6 is fine, ?php isn't. On Jul 18, 2012 9:34 PM, Daniel Macedo admac...@gmail.com wrote: use a slightly modified version of the open tag, for example ?php6 or *php, etc. This satisfies several desires: we

Re: [PHP-DEV] 6.0 And Moving Forward

2012-07-18 Thread Andrew Faulds
...er, php5 isn't fine. On Jul 18, 2012 9:34 PM, Daniel Macedo admac...@gmail.com wrote: use a slightly modified version of the open tag, for example ?php6 or *php, etc. This satisfies several desires: we don't want an extra line of boilerplate code like 'use PHP 6' to be required in every

Re: [PHP-DEV] 6.0 And Moving Forward

2012-07-18 Thread Andrew Faulds
Sure, BC breaks for 6.0, but it worries me. I don't want a Python 3 for PHP 6. Or heck, PHP5 for that matter. On Jul 18, 2012 9:50 PM, Stan Vass sv_for...@fmethod.com wrote: Chaos will surely be, if we break PHP5 code. It should work without modification. ?php6 is fine, ?php isn't. On Jul 18,

Re: [PHP-DEV] Integer overflows on float to int casts

2012-07-18 Thread Andrew Faulds
Cap it at INT_MAX, yeah, that seems reasonable. A notice seems reasonable but production servers displaying errors... devs will go mad :) On Jul 18, 2012 11:39 PM, Nikita Popov nikita@gmail.com wrote: Hi internals! When a large floating point number is cast to an integer we currently have

Re: [PHP-DEV] A new idea on PHP6.

2012-07-19 Thread Andrew Faulds
Our syntax is very, very confusing for newbies. Also, procedural and OOP programming is unnatural and unintuitive. We should use the natural LISP braces syntax and make PHP functional, so it is much easier to write, e.g.: ((decl (main (echo (add (reverse (array (1 2 3))) (string ('h 'e 'l 'l 'o

Re: [PHP-DEV] Regarding PHP6, string/array APIs

2012-07-19 Thread Andrew Faulds
One consideration: Should be a general array/string/int/float/bool API. PHP is weakly typed: therefore, say, reverse() would reverse a string OR an array. negate() would invert a bool, negate an int/float. slice() would slice a section of a string OR an array. max() would find maximum of an array,

Re: [PHP-DEV] Pseudo-objects (methods on arrays, strings, etc.)

2012-07-19 Thread Andrew Faulds
Right, because I've never got them the wrong way round, that is completely logical, and this syntax makes it much harder. On Jul 19, 2012 1:17 AM, Rasmus Lerdorf ras...@lerdorf.com wrote: On 07/18/2012 05:10 PM, David Muir wrote: On 19/07/12 04:49, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: On 07/18/2012 01:02

Re: [PHP-DEV] 6.0 And Moving Forward

2012-07-19 Thread Andrew Faulds
+1 There's a reason that web browser APIs have so much cruft (user-agent string, yuck), and there's a reason for ECMAScript 5's use strict instead of use legacy. Old code should work without changing it. Otherwise a lot of things break which take a lot of time to fix, and even worse, devs can

Re: [PHP-DEV] 6.0 And Moving Forward

2012-07-19 Thread Andrew Faulds
an emulator not perfectly emulate. On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 8:44 AM, Andrew Faulds ajf...@googlemail.com wrote: +1 There's a reason that web browser APIs have so much cruft (user-agent string, yuck), and there's a reason for ECMAScript 5's use strict instead of use legacy. Old code should work

Re: [PHP-DEV] Make try/catch brackets optinal

2012-07-19 Thread Andrew Faulds
Always close p, but never close li :) On Jul 19, 2012 4:44 PM, Larry Garfield la...@garfieldtech.com wrote: On 7/19/12 5:11 AM, Peter Beverloo wrote: I have seen this problem happen, people losing time trying to figure out what is wrong only to find its a missing bracket. As Paul said,

Re: [PHP-DEV] Pseudo-objects (methods on arrays, strings, etc.)

2012-07-19 Thread Andrew Faulds
We can have more consistent naming, at least. I like this idea even more now, it means we could have a set of universal operations: $bool-negate(); // true - false $num-negate(); // 7 - -7 $numericString-negate(); // 123 - -123 $float-negate(); // 3.141592 - -3.141592 $customVectorType-negate();

Re: [PHP-DEV] Make try/catch brackets optinal

2012-07-19 Thread Andrew Faulds
and sloppy coders, and parsers that encourage them. --Larry Garfield On 7/19/12 10:52 AM, Andrew Faulds wrote: Always close p, but never close li :) On Jul 19, 2012 4:44 PM, Larry Garfield la...@garfieldtech.com wrote: On 7/19/12 5:11 AM, Peter Beverloo wrote: I have seen this problem happen

Re: [PHP-DEV] Pseudo-objects (methods on arrays, strings, etc.)

2012-07-19 Thread Andrew Faulds
PHP is all about backwards compatibility. We only break things that need to be broken. The legacy str*/str_*/string_*/array_* functions will still work. On Jul 19, 2012 5:36 PM, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote: Pierre Joye wrote: should still work. All the string API methods need to be

Re: [PHP-DEV] Pseudo-objects (methods on arrays, strings, etc.)

2012-07-19 Thread Andrew Faulds
of 'strict' warnings across several projects and libraries :( Work that I don't make any money from but am having to do simply to keep things simple when the NEXT changes happen! Andrew Faulds wrote: PHP is all about backwards compatibility. We only break things that need

Re: [PHP-DEV] How to track down an APC bug

2012-07-19 Thread Andrew Faulds
Forgive my ignorance, what is APC? On Jul 19, 2012 7:15 PM, Rasmus Lerdorf ras...@lerdorf.com wrote: The goal of this message is to encourage and motivate a few people to give me a hand with tracking down APC bugs. There are still a few outstanding bugs that is slowing PHP 5.4 adoption and it

Re: [PHP-DEV] Pseudo-objects (methods on arrays, strings, etc.)

2012-07-19 Thread Andrew Faulds
I never said treat them as objects. I said give them methods. Not the same thing. And what do you mean by technical debt? On Jul 19, 2012 9:52 PM, Sara Golemon poll...@php.net wrote: On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Andrew Faulds ajf...@googlemail.comwrote: I think PHP could benefit from

Re: [PHP-DEV] How to track down an APC bug

2012-07-19 Thread Andrew Faulds
Ah, thanks. My mobile internet is horribly slow: But somehow Gmail works pretty fast (constant connection??). Hence not Googling first. On Jul 19, 2012 10:44 PM, Kalle Sommer Nielsen ka...@php.net wrote: 2012/7/19 Andrew Faulds ajf...@googlemail.com: Forgive my ignorance, what is APC

Re: [PHP-DEV] Pseudo-objects (methods on arrays, strings, etc.)

2012-07-19 Thread Andrew Faulds
I'm curious, how do I make my objects have scalar passing semantics, then? On Jul 20, 2012 12:35 AM, Sara Golemon poll...@php.net wrote: On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 2:42 PM, Andrew Faulds ajf...@googlemail.comwrote: I never said treat them as objects. I said give them methods. Not the same

Re: [PHP-DEV] 回复: [PHP-DEV] Make try/catch brackets optinal

2012-07-20 Thread Andrew Faulds
I don't think we should add it purely for consistency, because then we'd have to allow nonsense like: switch x; case 1; endcase; endswitch; or... try; x; catch e; endtry; Sure, consistency is good, but this would allow sloppy code. On Jul 20, 2012 8:36 AM, Amaury Bouchard ama...@amaury.net

Re: [PHP-DEV] Pseudo-objects (methods on arrays, strings, etc.)

2012-07-20 Thread Andrew Faulds
Exactly. Much of my focus is making PHP more consistent and logical, and hence easier to learn. It would be nice if PHP was as easy as Python, someday. (for example) On Jul 20, 2012 10:57 AM, Rafael Dohms lis...@rafaeldohms.com.br wrote: On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 10:33 AM, Lester Caine

Re: [PHP-DEV] 6.0 And Moving Forward

2012-07-20 Thread Andrew Faulds
Whilst I feel some sympathy for you, I must ask if it is really the PHP project to blame if your hosts use old PHP versions? On Jul 20, 2012 12:50 PM, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote: Daniel Macedo wrote: One little change in PHP5.3.10 or so wiped out a whole block of mine, and the fix

Re: [PHP-DEV] common issue with version_compare()

2012-07-20 Thread Andrew Faulds
Well, in the spirit of PHP, let's make version_compare_fixed()! On Jul 20, 2012 1:41 PM, Rasmus Schultz ras...@mindplay.dk wrote: From the comments in the documentation, it seems others are having the same problem with version_compare() that I was running into:

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [RFC] foreach_variable supporting T_LIST

2012-07-20 Thread Andrew Faulds
If I understand this correctly, this is like what Python let's you do with tuples. It's handy for getting vector components, hostnames and port numbers, etc. (I apologise for the Python comparison, it is just the language where I usually encounter this, and it makes heavy use of foreach-style

Re: [PHP-DEV] Make try/catch brackets optinal

2012-07-20 Thread Andrew Faulds
Python isn't coding-style constrained, it just uses increases and decreases whitespace as part of the block syntax. It has considerable flexibility, but not PHP/Perl-level. On Jul 20, 2012 3:33 PM, Amaury Bouchard ama...@amaury.net wrote: 2012/7/20 Alex Aulbach alex.aulb...@gmail.com PS: And

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [RFC] foreach_variable supporting T_LIST

2012-07-20 Thread Andrew Faulds
Yeah, that's what I realised as I wrote that. PHP functions don't really use tuples etc. very much, unlike Python. That said, now we have short array syntax, and if we add this, perhaps people will use it more. Still, at the moment the usefulness of this is limited. Perhaps destructuring

Re: [PHP-DEV] common issue with version_compare()

2012-07-21 Thread Andrew Faulds
Yeah, that would definitely be a bug. On Jul 21, 2012 7:23 AM, Kris Craig kris.cr...@gmail.com wrote: 1.01 eq 1.1 Could you explain this one to me? In every versioning system I've ever used, 1.1 would be greater than 1.01, not equal. On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 5:07 PM, Stas Malyshev

Re: [PHP-DEV] short_open_tags

2012-07-21 Thread Andrew Faulds
I also think ? is good. Consider: ? if (user.loggedin) ? a href=/logoutLogout/a ? elseif ? ? href=/loginLog in/a | a href=/registerRegister/a ? endif ? With ?php, it's less readable (it's not so bad, but I certainly prefer the former.) ?php if (user.loggedin) ? a href=/logoutLogout/a ?php

Re: [PHP-DEV] common issue with version_compare()

2012-07-21 Thread Andrew Faulds
What? x, x.y, x.y.z, x.y.z.a, etc are all valid. 1, 1.1, 1.1.2, 1.1.2.3, in that order, would be valid. On Jul 21, 2012 10:07 AM, Pierre Joye pierre@gmail.com wrote: hi! On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 2:40 PM, Rasmus Schultz ras...@mindplay.dk wrote: Of course that would break backwards

Re: [PHP-DEV] common issue with version_compare()

2012-07-21 Thread Andrew Faulds
are not. They are just not correct and confusing, as you noticed. On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 11:19 AM, Andrew Faulds ajf...@googlemail.com wrote: What? x, x.y, x.y.z, x.y.z.a, etc are all valid. 1, 1.1, 1.1.2, 1.1.2.3, in that order, would be valid. On Jul 21, 2012 10:07 AM, Pierre Joye pierre

Re: [PHP-DEV] common issue with version_compare()

2012-07-21 Thread Andrew Faulds
not correct and confusing, as you noticed. On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 11:19 AM, Andrew Faulds ajf...@googlemail.com wrote: What? x, x.y, x.y.z, x.y.z.a, etc are all valid. 1, 1.1, 1.1.2, 1.1.2.3, in that order, would be valid. On Jul 21, 2012 10:07 AM, Pierre Joye pierre@gmail.com wrote

Re: [PHP-DEV] common issue with version_compare()

2012-07-21 Thread Andrew Faulds
If you think 1.1 =/= 1.01 you're sure using some weird version numbers. Only 1.0.1 would be smaller. Has anyone seen these weird version ordering schemes in practise? On any major projects of note? On Jul 21, 2012 10:51 AM, Tjerk Meesters tjerk.meest...@gmail.com wrote: On 21 Jul, 2012, at

Re: [PHP-DEV] common issue with version_compare()

2012-07-21 Thread Andrew Faulds
Maybe it should have an optional extra parameter specifying comparison mode? (I.e. version formatting) On Jul 21, 2012 1:08 PM, Ángel González keis...@gmail.com wrote: On 21/07/12 11:32, Pierre Joye wrote: hi, No, I mean version with 1.0 and not 1.0.0 are not. They are just not correct

Re: [PHP-DEV] Change of email address

2012-07-22 Thread Andrew Faulds
Don't worry, I unsubscribed on old account. It's forwarding. On 23 July 2012 at 00:49 Good Guy xfs...@gmail.com wrote: On 22/07/2012 15:40, Andrew Faulds wrote: Hi there, My old email address was ajf...@googlemail.com, I am now using a...@ajf.me. I'm not sure I need to point

[PHP-DEV] [proposal + patch] array_pick() function

2012-07-22 Thread Andrew Faulds
useful also in the scenario where you want a random value of nested arrays ($array['thing']['foo']). Enough rambling, here's a pull request. https://github.com/php/php-src/pull/142 https://github.com/php/php-src/pull/142 -- Andrew Faulds http://ajf.me/ -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development

[PHP-DEV] array_pick()

2012-07-23 Thread Andrew Faulds
it is shorter, and has a similar name to similar functions in Python (random.choice) and GML (choose) - However, this could be changed. --- Thoughts? -- Andrew Faulds http://ajf.me/ -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

[PHP-DEV] array_pick() - resent because email client broke formatting

2012-07-23 Thread Andrew Faulds
that array_rand_key is a better name, I have chosen array_pick because it is shorter, and has a similar name to similar functions in Python (random.choice) and GML (choose) - However, this could be changed. --- Thoughts? -- Andrew Faulds http://ajf.me/ -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Supports 'finally' keyword for PHP exceptions

2012-07-24 Thread Andrew Faulds
On 24/07/12 14:40, Levi Morrison wrote: On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 7:35 AM, Nikita Popov nikita@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Laruence larue...@php.net wrote: Hi: As the previous threads disscussed, I make a implemention. here is the RFC:

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Supports 'finally' keyword for PHP exceptions

2012-07-24 Thread Andrew Faulds
On 24/07/12 14:48, Johannes Schlüter wrote: On Tue, 2012-07-24 at 19:20 +0800, Laruence wrote: Hi: As the previous threads disscussed, I make a implemention. here is the RFC: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/finally any suggestions? thanks As PHP has destructors there is less need

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Supports 'finally' keyword for PHP exceptions

2012-07-24 Thread Andrew Faulds
On 24/07/12 16:16, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: On 07/24/2012 06:35 AM, Nikita Popov wrote: On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Laruence larue...@php.net wrote: Hi: As the previous threads disscussed, I make a implemention. here is the RFC: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/finally any

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Proposal namespace importing with from syntax

2012-07-24 Thread Andrew Faulds
(with newlines it would be more clear), but it looks a little weird to me. Just my 2¢. -- Andrew Faulds http://ajf.me/

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Supports 'finally' keyword for PHP exceptions

2012-07-24 Thread Andrew Faulds
somebody already wrote Python! :) PHP risks losing some of its uniqueness to fixing things, unfortunately. But losing bad features and moving forward is good, right? -- Andrew Faulds http://ajf.me/ -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Generators in PHP

2012-07-24 Thread Andrew Faulds
with the implementation of an iterator, why do we need to have it as _function_? Much easier to make an iterator with a function than as a class. -- Andrew Faulds http://ajf.me/ -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Supports 'finally' keyword for PHP exceptions

2012-07-24 Thread Andrew Faulds
does them. I'm just saying that 1) keeping things because they've always been done one way is not a good reason to keep them, and 2) just because Python does the same or a similar thing, does not mean PHP is turning into Python. -- Andrew Faulds http://ajf.me/ -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Generators in PHP

2012-07-24 Thread Andrew Faulds
On 24/07/12 18:56, Alex Aulbach wrote: 2012/7/24 Andrew Faulds a...@ajf.me: Much easier to make an iterator with a function than as a class. 2012/7/24 Yahav Gindi Bar g.b.ya...@gmail.com: I agree, implementing a class only for iterator may be pain sometimes, and functions is much better

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Generators in PHP

2012-07-24 Thread Andrew Faulds
generator syntax. On 24 ביול 2012, at 20:56, Alex Aulbach wrote: 2012/7/24 Andrew Faulds a...@ajf.me: Much easier to make an iterator with a function than as a class. 2012/7/24 Yahav Gindi Bar g.b.ya...@gmail.com: I agree, implementing a class only for iterator may be pain sometimes

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Generators in PHP

2012-07-24 Thread Andrew Faulds
On 24/07/12 19:32, Alex Aulbach wrote: 2012/7/24 Andrew Faulds a...@ajf.me: But PHP functions usually have side-effects, they aren't strict mathematical functions. Ah, you might mean str_tok()? Are there more, do you have a list? But we're in PHP-programming-context. You write a function

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Generators in PHP

2012-07-24 Thread Andrew Faulds
. And anyway, what could possibly go wrong? Is there any incorrect but non-fatal or warning-generating way you could use them? -- Andrew Faulds http://ajf.me/ -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Generators in PHP

2012-07-25 Thread Andrew Faulds
Like they have already... :/ Sent from Samsung Mobile Ferenc Kovacs tyr...@gmail.com wrote: ( I'll start a new thread for my other rant ... ) nah, you won't, you will bring that up in every thread instead. -- Ferenc Kovács @Tyr43l - http://tyrael.hu

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Generators in PHP

2012-07-25 Thread Andrew Faulds
Generators aren't for you, then, they are for people like me who, for example, used a C# generator for yielding tokens, or, for example, use generators to iterate element by element through multi-dimensional arrays. -- Sent from Samsung Mobile Andrew Faulds http://ajf.me/ Lester Caine les

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Generators in PHP

2012-07-25 Thread Andrew Faulds
We, of course, should try to avoid user confusion if it will be a big issue. But I don't see any here. Also, 20 years experience does not necessarily a good programmer make, nor an expert in other programmers. -- Sent from Samsung Mobile Andrew Faulds http://ajf.me/ Sherif Ramadan theanomaly

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Generators in PHP

2012-07-25 Thread Andrew Faulds
noGenerators and then break tons of third-party code relying on it? Or do you think you're forced to use them? I don't understand, sorry. A feature's existence doesn't mean you're forced to use it. Did the introduction of short array syntax force you to use [] instead of array()?! -- Andrew

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Generators in PHP

2012-07-25 Thread Andrew Faulds
On 25/07/12 16:11, Lester Caine wrote: Andrew Faulds wrote: I top you 20 years with 37 years. I was programming in Algol in 1975 ( at Warwick university ). I'm not a programmer, I'm a hardware engineer who has to program to make systems work. I added PHP 12 years ago to create web based

[PHP-DEV] PHP6 wiki page

2012-07-25 Thread Andrew Faulds
Is there a PHP 6 wiki page for co-ordinating development of and collecting ideas for PHP6 development? There are a lot of idea being thrown around, would be nice if we had a page (there might be one, but I can't find it). Thanks. -- Andrew Faulds http://ajf.me/ -- PHP Internals - PHP

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Generators in PHP

2012-07-25 Thread Andrew Faulds
? I don't see how it means anything. -- Andrew Faulds http://ajf.me/ -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Generators in PHP

2012-07-25 Thread Andrew Faulds
On 25/07/12 16:43, Alex Aulbach wrote: 2012/7/25 Andrew Faulds a...@ajf.me: We, of course, should try to avoid user confusion if it will be a big issue. But I don't see any here. I said it's small and the fix is small also. Big issue, big fix, small issue, small fix. Understand? Also, 20

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Generators in PHP

2012-07-25 Thread Andrew Faulds
- http://tyrael.hu Oh yes, of course. Experience can be helpful. But you must support things with facts, as you said. However I don't think simply having a lot of experience is always meaningful. It's not really how much, more *what* experience you have that I think really matters here. -- Andrew

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Generators in PHP

2012-07-25 Thread Andrew Faulds
- http://tyrael.hu I think this quote from that sums this up nicely: Although certain classes of argument from authority do on occasion constitute strong inductive arguments, arguments from authority are commonly used in a fallacious manner. Now, let us not argue about this any more :D -- Andrew

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Generators in PHP

2012-07-25 Thread Andrew Faulds
on it. -- Andrew Faulds http://ajf.me/ -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Generators in PHP

2012-07-25 Thread Andrew Faulds
On 25/07/12 17:54, Alex Aulbach wrote: 2012/7/25 Andrew Faulds a...@ajf.me: Experience can be helpful. But you must support things with facts Ok, I tried to bring all the pro arguments together. Suggestion: For a generator, rename the keyword function to ... generator or something like

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Generators in PHP

2012-07-25 Thread Andrew Faulds
functions, they just suspend execution. Also, other languages (e.g. Python) have added generators without special syntax, seemingly without issues. -- Andrew Faulds http://ajf.me/ -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

[PHP-DEV] RFCs and organisation

2012-07-25 Thread Andrew Faulds
an RFC. Plus it would provide for an obvious way to sort RFCs in a list, by number. At the moment I'm not really sure if there's an sort of sorting on the RFCs page, although RFCs certainly seem to be categorised. Thoughts? Apologies again, Andrew Faulds http://ajf.me/ -- PHP Internals

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFCs and organisation

2012-07-26 Thread Andrew Faulds
Andrew: On 25 Jul 2012, at 22:50, Andrew Faulds wrote: I think someone (perhaps me) should write an RFC on how to write an RFC Note that a new page create on the wiki in the RFC namespace comes with a template that gives some guidance on how to write an RFC. Lukas based it on my original Traits

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFCs and organisation

2012-07-26 Thread Andrew Faulds
language (DokuWiki's if separable, else I'd suggest Markdown), or no formatting language (plain text), and a flat-file or DB storage system (would prefer the former personally). I'd be willing to write one, although I'm away next week. But I could work on it today and tommorow. -- Andrew Faulds http

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFCs and organisation

2012-07-26 Thread Andrew Faulds
On 26/07/12 18:46, Levi Morrison wrote: I'm in favor of an RFC app on the condition it has a nice UX and has complete unit tests. Welp, guess it's time for me to learn how to unit-test properly. -- Andrew Faulds http://ajf.me/ -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFCs and organisation

2012-07-26 Thread Andrew Faulds
On 26/07/12 18:53, Kris Craig wrote: On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 10:47 AM, Andrew Faulds a...@ajf.me mailto:a...@ajf.me wrote: On 26/07/12 18:46, Levi Morrison wrote: I'm in favor of an RFC app on the condition it has a nice UX and has complete unit tests. Welp

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFCs and organisation

2012-07-26 Thread Andrew Faulds
On 26/07/12 19:11, Evert Pot wrote: On Jul 26, 2012, at 7:53 PM, Kris Craig wrote: On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 10:47 AM, Andrew Faulds a...@ajf.me wrote: On 26/07/12 18:46, Levi Morrison wrote: I'm in favor of an RFC app on the condition it has a nice UX and has complete unit tests. Welp

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFCs and organisation

2012-07-26 Thread Andrew Faulds
page? I'm not going to fundamentally change anything. -- Andrew Faulds http://ajf.me/ -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

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