Re: [PHP-DEV] @official_php credentials?

[Daniel Brown]

On Tue, Feb 4, 2020 at 8:47 AM Derick Rethans  wrote:
>
> On Tue, 4 Feb 2020, Ben Ramsey wrote:
>
> > If you use TweetDeck, you can grant access to others, without needing
> > to pass around the credentials.
>
> Yes, that is exactly how we are using it.

I'm presuming the credentials were changed from when I first
created the account.  Can someone either correct the typo from earlier
today or share the TweetDeck account with me so that I can, please?

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Re: [PHP-DEV] Mailing list moderation

[Daniel Brown]

On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 11:16 AM, Johannes Schlüter  wrote:
> On Di, 2018-01-02 at 11:49 +0100, Nikita Popov wrote:
>> li...@rhsoft.net, who have recently been
>> aggressively derailing
>
> He was blocked in 2012 already:
>
> https://externals.io/message/59395#59421

I hadn't even noticed this thread until the flurry of activity
kept throwing it to the top of my inbox, but if you remember, that
2012 ban by Rasmus was far from the only time he caused issues.  And
it's not just with PHP either.

Reindl Harald has an established pattern of foul
language and harassment of community members in a number of open
source projects.  In the notes I keep on people who abuse our
services, I have his first entry coming up on eight years ago, in
July, 2010, where he devolved into profanity and personal attacks
because he didn't like something that was being discussed.

He's had a number of opportunities to correct his abusive
behavior.  I, too, agree in second - and even third - chances, but
when this pattern of behavior spans the better part of a decade, and
racks-up enough entries in my notes that I can remember who he is
right off the top of my head, I think enough is enough.

I, for one, say permanently ban him and move on.

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Re: [PHP-DEV] Outstanding php.net account requests

[Daniel Brown]

On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 11:38 AM, Peter Cowburn  wrote:
> On 5 December 2017 at 13:57, Christoph M. Becker  wrote:
>
> Furthermore, while some have karma to approve VCS accounts, they may not
>> have karma to grant karma – so approving the accounts without granting
>> actual karma does not really make sense.
>>
>
> You're right there, the two (approving an account, granting the appropriate
> commit karma) should almost always be done at the same time. Anyone looking
> to help with the account requests should have SVNROOT karma, or ask for it.
> :)

That's been my stumblingblock for the last ten years.  That, and
laziness in not requesting access (to be fair).

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Re: [PHP-DEV] Wake up

[Daniel Brown]

On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 12:10 AM, Seva Lapsha seva.lap...@gmail.com wrote:
 PHP is a collective mind. Any dictatorship would mean a degradation for it.
 If you don't like how it's managed, there is an easy path:

 1. Earn authority.
 2. Propose a change.
 3. Implement it.
 4. Maintain it.

 Start with 1.

This is one of only a very, very small few points that, to me,
have any merit.  Those who are calling for change have not yet met
point #1 in the above list (and, though it may be confusing to some,
we try to abide by the rules and refer to things as above --- a note
to those who have not yet even read the etiquette of the list, yet
still feel entitled to a voice).

One of the reasons PHP has been so successful is that some of us
agreed with the original ideals, the path along which it traveled, and
the camaraderie we found in those who shared our opinions.  And to
those of you who may not, let me truncate this with a single order:

Fork.

To the rest of you who are still reading, I'll apologize in
advance for my wordiness.

To those of you who are raising your voices now: why did it take
you so long?  Do we - by which I mean folks who actively volunteer
their time to the project - seem unapproachable?  Outside of these
QWERTY-coups, the list is generally quiet --- particularly when
changes are proposed.  When such discussions come up, there are some
who voice approval or opposition. and they do, at the very least,
actively participate in the discussion - and democracy - of the
ongoing project as a whole.

Today, I see folks who may have awesome intentions, but - unless I
missed something - are not active contributors.

To which, again, I refer to Seva's very valid Point #1.

[We'll take a quick commercial break to let you know that this
message is neither sponsored nor endorsed by Seva, who - to my
knowlege - I have never even met before.  I know return you to the
ongoing rant-thread, already in progress.]

The beauty of the development of PHP - and most other projects
share this exact same quality - is that it's not a singularity.  PHP
is an ecosystem.  The project has so many roles that, quite honestly,
we can't fill them all.  And because it's all based on passionate
folks willing to volunteer their time, it makes it just slightly
difficult to recruit.  I don't think help-wanted ads would have very
successful results when considering that we'd be asking folks to
volunteer - as so many have over the years - to fill spots such as:

* Implementation of new features (requires knowledge of C)
* Improvement of the documentation (requires knowledge of English)
* Translation of the documentation (requires knowledge of English
and another language)
* Alpha- and beta-testing new releases and providing feedback (may
require multiple environments)
* Systems administration (requires being required)
* QA (requires patience)
* Bug-reporting (requires sixty seconds or less, or your next bug is free)

Salary: commensurate with experience, divided by zero.

It's not just us, it's all open source projects.  Sure, sometimes
having financial backing is great.  Unfortunately, that turns folks
away, too --- especially when it eradicates the ecosystem of the
original project.  A very basic example to which many of you may
relate: Mandrake.  Err Mandriva.  Well, no matter what its name,
since it's no longer free.  I should probably refer to it as
Mandriva(R) at this point, just to be safe.

The short-winded summary (and yes, I saved it for the end, to make
everyone suffer) is this: if you want to make a change in PHP - or
anything in life - then get involved, get active, and get things
accomplished.  Don't just pull some occupy movement and think things
will change because of a voice in numbers.  Get inspired, get
involved, and get the fuck to work.  Otherwise, move along, and be
archived like the rest of the one-offs.

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Re: [PHP-DEV] Zend Optimizer+ Source Code now available

[Daniel Brown]

On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 9:51 AM, Zeev Suraski z...@zend.com wrote:

 As per Derick’s idea, we can arrange a webinar for those interested in
 better understanding how it works.  Note that this will not be a webinar
 for the faint of heart – opcode caches are complicated pieces of software;
 Attendees should have very good engine-development knowledge to have a good
 chance of understanding what’s going on…  Stas – your help in that webinar
 would be very welcome J

I'm interested in attending the webinar, as well, Zeev.  Any
general idea when it would be (e.g. - next week, March, sometime
during the summer)?

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Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP 5.5 snapshot

[Daniel Brown]

On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 1:17 PM, Remi Collet r...@fedoraproject.org wrote:
 Hi,

 http://snaps.php.net/ only have php 5.3 and 5.4 snapshot.

 I think it will be great to also have 5.5.

David had sent me an email about that a couple of days ago, and
I'd said that I would add the snaps the following day, but must've
forgotten to put it on my to-do list.  Seeing your email now jogged my
memory, and I've added it.  It'll be on the next automated build.

Thanks, Remi.

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Re: [PHP-DEV] Alternatives to mailing list?

[Daniel Brown]

On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 3:07 PM, Maciek Sokolewicz
maciek.sokolew...@gmail.com wrote:

 NNTP works great! The only pain in the ass is that it's hellishly slow and
 very very often times out, making the reading of longer threads (like this
 one) take... ages...
 Perhaps it could be mirrored / load distributed as well? Daniel?

You know, that's been on the back-burner for about two years.  I
guess it is time to finally get off my duff and do something about it.
 I'll try to set up a public-access news server this week or next, and
use news.php.net just for master distribution and internal stuff.

I always get sidetracked, though, so feel free to poke and prod me
on this one.

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Re: [PHP-DEV] who is running snaps?

[Daniel Brown]

On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 3:21 PM, Stas Malyshev smalys...@sugarcrm.com wrote:
 Hi!

 Does anybody know who is responsible the snaps.php.net machine? It seems
 to be serving 5.4 builds under then name of php-trunk and that confuses
 people. Not only we don't have trunk as such since the move to git,
 people expect the latest dev build there which is master and not 5.4.

I *physically* host it, but didn't do any of the snap-building
stuff.  It may possibly have been Derick, but I don't know for
certain.

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[PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP] zend_auto_global_disable_jit missing in PHP 5.4.5

[Daniel Brown]

On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 11:30 PM, freeone3000 freeone3...@gmail.com wrote:
 I'm working with a third-party PHP extension that makes a call to
 zend_auto_global_disable_jit. However, in PHP5.4.5, there is no
 zend_auto_global_disable_jit available, nor is it in its traditional
 header. Commenting out all zend_auto_global_disable_jit calls causes
 PHP to no longer recognize it as a valid extension, while leaving them
 in attempts for an invalid method to be called.

 The file in question is
 https://github.com/mtorromeo/runkit/blob/master/runkit.c line 305. As
 is relatively obvious, it's not part of a macro, and its removal
 should not affect whether the library is a PHP extension or not -
 perhaps it's based on PHP's static analysis? If it doesn't call the
 function, it would access a global, possibly before the global has
 been JIT initialized by the runtime. If this is the case, what is the
 replacement function for PHP 5.4.5?

This is something you're going to want to ask on the Internals
list (CC'd).  General is more for questions on using the language.

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Re: [PHP-DEV] Some Stats

[Daniel Brown]

On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 18:13, Kris Craig kris.cr...@gmail.com wrote:

 Yeah one of the problems that really frustrates the hell out of me is that,
 after I've answered a question or responded to an objection, somebody new
 jumps in and raises the exact same issue.  When I tell them to read earlier
 in the thread for my answer, they tend to get hostile and will often just
 keep re-repeating the criticism until I finally get fed-up and just repeat
 the response I'd posted earlier.  Rinse and repeat.

If it's repeat criticism, it'll be skimmed over by the folks that
matter, trust me.  Fighting every single skirmish could well lead to
losing the campaign.

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[PHP-DEV] Re: Upcoming Outage: php.net

[Daniel Brown]

Just a reminder, see the below message.
On Apr 13, 2012 3:43 PM, Daniel Brown danbr...@php.net wrote:

Greetings, all;

This coming Monday, 16 April, 2012, between the hours of 18:00 and
 20:00 EDT (22:00 to 00:00 GMT), the one of the primary php.net servers
 will be undergoing a critical preventative maintenance operation.  In
 this two-hour maintenance window, we do expect a period of
 interruption lasting up to thirty minutes, during which certain core
 services will be partially or totally unavailable.

The system that will experience the downtime is OSU1PHP.PHP.NET
 which, among other things, is the primary system for our mail exchange
 and master database.  As such, a sample of services that will likely
 be unavailable for a short period of time will include:

* Email (including mailing lists)
* Events, user, and mirror management
* User note submissions from userland
* Et cetera

We are informed by the on-site staff in Oregon State University's
 Open Source Lab, who quite generously provide this system
 free-of-charge, that while the maintenance is anticipated to take up
 to thirty minutes, they will be making all attempts to limit the
 downtime to a period of just five to ten minutes.

My apologies for any inconvenience this may cause any of you, but
 as stated, this is critical preventative maintenance that is required
 to protect the integrity of the system, and to ensure that these
 services are not negatively impacted in the future.

Please contact me directly if you have any questions or concerns.

Thanks, all, and have a great weekend.

 --
 /Daniel P. Brown
 Network Infrastructure Manager
 http://www.php.net/

[PHP-DEV] Re: Upcoming Outage: php.net

[Daniel Brown]

 and we're back.

Sorry for the interruption.  I know many of you were missing the RFC
discussions and debates on Internals.  I'll try not to let it happen
again.  ;-P

If anyone sees any issues that could be related to the below, please let us
know ASAP on syst...@php.net and/or https://bugs.php.net/.

Thank you.
 On Apr 16, 2012 6:15 PM, Daniel Brown paras...@gmail.com wrote:

 Just a reminder, see the below message.
 On Apr 13, 2012 3:43 PM, Daniel Brown danbr...@php.net wrote:

Greetings, all;

This coming Monday, 16 April, 2012, between the hours of 18:00 and
 20:00 EDT (22:00 to 00:00 GMT), the one of the primary php.net servers
 will be undergoing a critical preventative maintenance operation.  In
 this two-hour maintenance window, we do expect a period of
 interruption lasting up to thirty minutes, during which certain core
 services will be partially or totally unavailable.

The system that will experience the downtime is OSU1PHP.PHP.NET
 which, among other things, is the primary system for our mail exchange
 and master database.  As such, a sample of services that will likely
 be unavailable for a short period of time will include:

* Email (including mailing lists)
* Events, user, and mirror management
* User note submissions from userland
* Et cetera

We are informed by the on-site staff in Oregon State University's
 Open Source Lab, who quite generously provide this system
 free-of-charge, that while the maintenance is anticipated to take up
 to thirty minutes, they will be making all attempts to limit the
 downtime to a period of just five to ten minutes.

My apologies for any inconvenience this may cause any of you, but
 as stated, this is critical preventative maintenance that is required
 to protect the integrity of the system, and to ensure that these
 services are not negatively impacted in the future.

Please contact me directly if you have any questions or concerns.

Thanks, all, and have a great weekend.

 --
 /Daniel P. Brown
 Network Infrastructure Manager
 http://www.php.net/

[PHP-DEV] Upcoming Outage: php.net

[Daniel Brown]

Greetings, all;

This coming Monday, 16 April, 2012, between the hours of 18:00 and
20:00 EDT (22:00 to 00:00 GMT), the one of the primary php.net servers
will be undergoing a critical preventative maintenance operation.  In
this two-hour maintenance window, we do expect a period of
interruption lasting up to thirty minutes, during which certain core
services will be partially or totally unavailable.

The system that will experience the downtime is OSU1PHP.PHP.NET
which, among other things, is the primary system for our mail exchange
and master database.  As such, a sample of services that will likely
be unavailable for a short period of time will include:

* Email (including mailing lists)
* Events, user, and mirror management
* User note submissions from userland
* Et cetera

We are informed by the on-site staff in Oregon State University's
Open Source Lab, who quite generously provide this system
free-of-charge, that while the maintenance is anticipated to take up
to thirty minutes, they will be making all attempts to limit the
downtime to a period of just five to ten minutes.

My apologies for any inconvenience this may cause any of you, but
as stated, this is critical preventative maintenance that is required
to protect the integrity of the system, and to ensure that these
services are not negatively impacted in the future.

Please contact me directly if you have any questions or concerns.

Thanks, all, and have a great weekend.

-- 
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Network Infrastructure Manager
http://www.php.net/

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Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: cvs.php.net

[Daniel Brown]

On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 06:04, Ferenc Kovacs tyr...@gmail.com wrote:

 judging from the lack of interest I guess you are right.
 I will remove the cvs/cvsup subdomain from our zone file, and the cvsup.php
 file (any any other cvs(up).php.net reference from the codebase, and I cc'ed
 the systems@ list, so that somebody with shell there can stop the cvs
 service.

The cvs subdomain automatically forwards (HTTP 301) to
svn.php.net, and cvsup (same method) to bugs-beta.php.net.  This was
originally set up years ago, when we switched to SVN, in large part to
jog people's memory (oh, yeah, CVS is gone).  I don't see any harm
in keeping the subdomains in the zone file, but I also don't see any
reason they couldn't be removed.

On a related note, the wiki entry mentions that the userlist and
digest auth files are fetched from master2.php.net  If this is
still the case, can someone switch that back to simply master.php.net
so we can decommission the master2 entry from the zone?  Or, if anyone
would rather, just throw my key (on master) on there and I'll be glad
to do it today.

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Re: [PHP-DEV] Problems with master.php.net

[Daniel Brown]

On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 21:28, Klaus Silveira klaussilve...@php.net wrote:
 I have noticed that master.php.net has been offline for a few days now,
 resulting in a failure to login at the PHP Wiki. Are you guys having this
 same issue?

It had been going up and down, yes, and now it's completely down.
We're working to restore it on a new system.

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[PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP] Array has `trailing comma`, why not the same for function parameter list?

[Daniel Brown]

On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 08:47, Nam Gi VU nam.gi...@gmail.com wrote:
 It is convenient to have a trailing comma when defining an array - so as
 easy to add/remove code to add/remove an entry to the array

 array(
    'key00' = 'value00',
    'key01' = 'value01',
    'key02' = 'value02',
    ...
 )

 I suggest to PHP Development team to make it available in the syntax to
 have a leading comma
 array(
    ...
    , 'key00' = 'value00'
    , 'key01' = 'value01'
    , 'key02' = 'value02'
 )
 in such way, we can thought of the leading commas as the list bulletings.

 And the same things would be lovely to be applied also to function
 parameter list. I don't see why not :)

 What do you thing about my suggestion? Hope to hear from you!

    For feature requests such as this, please discuss it on the
Internals list (CC'd on this email) and suggest it via the bug tracker
at https://bugs.php.net/ (with the bug type as a Feature/Change
Request).

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Re: [PHP-DEV] SVN Account Request: spankmaster79

[Daniel Brown]

On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 05:38, Sebastian Beyer
sebastian.be...@spankomedia.ath.cx wrote:
 Translating the documentation

Into...?  If you're undecided, we could use more people on the
Klingon translation team.

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Re: [PHP-DEV] removing some cruft

[Daniel Brown]

On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 06:05, Kalle Sommer Nielsen ka...@php.net wrote:

 expose_php = Off?

I think what he and others mean is that they want the option to
leave the logo, credits, et cetera, completely out of the build at
compile time.

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Re: [PHP-DEV] SVN Account Request: rlms

[Daniel Brown]

On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 05:11, Richard Quadling rquadl...@gmail.com wrote:

 Considering the hack of Hannes' credentials a while ago, can we trust
 that the above message is REALLY from Hannes?

 Hmm.

 Just spreading some fud in this world of calm.

He was discussing the same thing in IRC yesterday, so even if it
wasn't him here, there's no worry.

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[PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP] [security] PHP has DoS vuln with large decimal points

[Daniel Brown]

On Sun, Jan 16, 2011 at 21:00, Tommy Pham tommy...@gmail.com wrote:

 Here are the results after some further tests for the same platform:

 * max float value: 1.7976931348623E+308
 * min float value:  9.8813129168249E-324  
 floatval('1.00e-323') weird ...

 PHP wil hang when the value is between (inclusive)

 floatval('2.22507385850720102e-308')  -
 floatval('2.22507385850720113e-308')

 I can't find the bug report for the issue @ bugs.php.net.  Does anyone know
 if one is submitted?  I should submit one?  Sucribe to dev list and go from
 there?

If in doubt, file a bug.  Worse comes to worst, it will be marked
as bogus or a duplicate.  For security-related things, send them to
secur...@php.net, not to the General list.  Again, if it's of no
concern, it will simply be ignored as bogus or already known.

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Re: [PHP-DEV] LXR

[Daniel Brown]

On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 15:00, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote:
 You have to wait unzil the TTL is over
 Jesus why is the TTL so hughe?

 lxr.php.net.  61221  IN  A  94.23.222.92

 [ha...@srv-rhsoft:~]$ dig A lxr.php.net @NS2.EASYDNS.COM
 lxr.php.net.            86400   IN      CNAME   sp2.php.net.
 sp2.php.net.            86400   IN      A       173.236.52.218

 BTW:
 What poor setup to display software-information on a non-configured hostname
 even calling ip-address directly instead mod_security blocking such calls

Blame the CentOS default configuration for that one.

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Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] new foo()-bar()

[Daniel Brown]

On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 14:36, Felipe Pena felipe...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi all,
 I'm here again to presents another proposal, which adds support for
 instantiating a class and calling its methods and accessing its properties
 on same command.

 Example:

 ?php

 class bar {
  public $x = 'PHP';
 }

 class foo extends bar {
  public function bar() {
    return $this;
  }
 }

 var_dump(new foo()-bar()-x); // string(3) PHP

 ?

 Other examples which describes the feature at
 http://wiki.php.net/rfc/instance-method-call

 Thoughts?

I'm all for it, Felipe.  Chaining like that would really come in
handy in several situations of which I can think right off the top of
my head even.

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Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Hold off 5.4

[Daniel Brown]

On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 16:56, Zeev Suraski z...@zend.com wrote:

 Can't say I feel strongly about it, but I have a feeling that unless we 
 change our versioning scheme a slight bit, we'll be stuck in the 5.x realm 
 for a very long time (and I do think it actually reflects badly on the way 
 the language is perceived to some degree).

Perl?  Oh, PHP.

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Re: [PHP-DEV] git anyone?

[Daniel Brown]

On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 20:47, Pierre Joye pierre@gmail.com wrote:
 hi,
[snip]
 Please not I'm not requesting to do it now and here, only trying to
 get a feeling/poll about git usage.

You might recall several conversations on this during the period
where Gwynne was migrating us from CVS to SVN in 2008/09.  Two two
threads that stand out most in my mind were Rasmus' thoughts on the
matter[1] and David Soria Parra actually working toward using git ---
or at least git-svn[2].  There were several other threads on the
subject as well, so unless opinions have changed, you may already have
some folks in your corner.


^1: http://news.php.net/svn.migration/255
^2: http://news.php.net/php.internals/44942


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[PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-DOC] Re: [PHP-DEV] Potential PC conflict.

[Daniel Brown]

On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 06:47, Richard Quadling rquadl...@gmail.com wrote:

 And probably all sane, rational people will agree with you (and me).

 It's the loonies I worry about!

The person who submitted that is a mongoid.  The term they were
trying to be funny about is mongoloid, which is a racial
classification that was a crude (but quasi-official) term referring to
folks with Down Syndrome.

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Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON

[Daniel Brown]

On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 06:50, Daniel Jänecke jaene...@gmx.li wrote:

 Well, isn't the problem here more people asking on IRC rather than using
 a search engine before? Renaming will not solve that.

In this case, one might argue that it would.  Instead of what's a
T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM? you would have, WTF IS A T_DOUBLE_COLON
ERROR N Y R PHP DOODZ SO F'D UP ARGH LOLZ!!1!

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Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON

[Daniel Brown]

On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 21:24, Scott MacVicar sc...@macvicar.net wrote:

 using a name like admin in your email headers isn't going to be very 
 receptive.

I was thinking the exact same thing.  Glad not to be the only one.  ;-P

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Re: [PHP-DEV] SVN Account Request: cyko

[Daniel Brown]

On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 21:12, Daniel Mcdonald c...@hotmail.co.uk wrote:
 Maintaining the PHP Documentation, as I have advanced PHP knowledge aswell as 
 my native language is English (also know a few other EU languages which could 
 help with translations etc.). I've contributed notes before to php.net, and 
 have seen documentation (namely for functions) that could be improved, I've 
 also seen many undocumented opcodes 
 (http://www.php.net/manual/en/internals2.opcodes.list.php) which I can help 
 document if need be, as I've already submitted a note (with all opcodes - inc 
 undocumented) - which is currently awaiting approval, having an account here 
 can provide more access to the site; theirfore me contributing more.

 aswell as my native language is English

Did you mean that you're also advancing your native language?
The context was a bit confusing.

As for requesting SVN access, we generally ask that all new
applicants first provide some simple patches demonstrating both their
serious interest and abilities.  Please check through the DOC HOWTO at
http://doc.php.net/php/dochowto/ and do an anonymous checkout of the
`phpdoc` SVN tree.  Make the changes to the sections you think are
most in need of help (or in which you have an immediate interest), and
run an `svn diff` on the file(s), outputting to a text file.  When
that's complete, submit it to the php...@lists.php.net mailing list
and - if everything looks good - your account will likely be approved.

If you have any questions, please send them to us on the DOC
mailing list at php...@lists.php.net and someone will get back to you.

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Re: [PHP-DEV] dangerous handling of security bugs

[Daniel Brown]

On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 11:12, Ferenc Kovacs i...@tyrael.hu wrote:

 btw: why can't we see the status changes in the Changes tab at the bugreports?
 it would be an interesting to check how many bugs were first marked as
 bogus then re-opened and fixed.

You can check here to see the email dispatched when any bug in the
system is entered or updated:

http://news.php.net/php.bugs


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Re: [PHP-DEV] SVN Account Request: jespino (Try 2)

[Daniel Brown]

2010/6/11 Jesús Espino jespi...@gmail.com:
 Hi, i ask a week ago for a SVN account for Pear projects, but nobody
 has reply me.

 It's the correct list, i have to ask in another one??

You asked on 3 June[1], last Thursday.  Sometimes it takes several
days or weeks (or months), so you would normally just have to be
patient.  However, it looks like you lucked out and your account was
granted karma the same day[2].


^1: http://news.php.net/php.internals/48634
^2: http://news.php.net/php.cvs/62813

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Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP 5.2.12RC3 Testing

[Daniel Brown]

On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 10:40, Pierre Joye pierre@gmail.com wrote:
 On behalf of Ilia (so the subject typo won't hide the RC3 from testers):

 The second release candidate of 5.2.12 was just released for testing
 and can be downloaded here:

Just semantics, but wouldn't this then be the *third* release candidate?

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Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: PHP 5.3.0 Released!

[Daniel Brown]

On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 09:25, Rodrigo
Saboyarodrigo.sab...@bolsademulher.com wrote:

 But I think the changelog link is broken =P

This will depend on your local mirror.  While I've just been in
touch with the mirror maintainers around the world, it may still take
an hour or so before it shows live in your area.

A little bit of patience now will pay off, for sure!  ;-P

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Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Throwing E_DEPRECATED on startup

[Daniel Brown]

On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 16:30, Hannes
Magnussonhannes.magnus...@gmail.com wrote:

 Now that 5.3.0 is out, are you looking into fixing run-tests.php or all tests?

 Like I warned about; if you enable any of these features in your
 php.ini and then run the test suite.. there are only a handful of
 tests that actually pass.

Indeed.  Going to install it on the CA2 mirror server this morning
brought up a ton of failed and skip messages, which I mentioned to
Hannes.  Here's the grep'd output:



r...@december [/dls/php/php-5.3.0]# make test | grep PASS
PHP Warning:  Directive 'magic_quotes_gpc' is deprecated in PHP 5.3
and greater in Unknown on line 0
PHP Warning:  Directive 'magic_quotes_gpc' is deprecated in PHP 5.3
and greater in Unknown on line 0
PHP Warning:  Directive 'magic_quotes_gpc' is deprecated in PHP 5.3
and greater in Unknown on line 0
PASS Error messages are shown [tests/run-test/test006.phpt]
PASS Testing $argc and $argv handling (cli) [tests/basic/012.phpt]
PASS Bug #28213 (crash in debug_print_backtrace in static methods)
[tests/lang/bug28213.phpt]
PASS Bug #39763 (filter applies magic_quotes twice in parse_str())
[ext/filter/tests/bug39763.phpt]
PASS Test phpinfo() displays gettext support
[ext/gettext/tests/gettext_phpinfo.phpt]
PASS Bug #43293 (Multiple segfaults in getopt())
[ext/standard/tests/general_functions/bug43293_3.phpt]
PASS Test get_magic_quotes_gpc() function
[ext/standard/tests/general_functions/get_magic_quotes_gpc.phpt]
PASS getopt [ext/standard/tests/general_functions/getopt.phpt] t]
PASS getopt#002 [ext/standard/tests/general_functions/getopt_002.phpt]
PASS getopt#003 [ext/standard/tests/general_functions/getopt_003.phpt]
PASS getopt#004 (Optional values)
[ext/standard/tests/general_functions/getopt_004.phpt]
PASS getopt#005 (Required values)
[ext/standard/tests/general_functions/getopt_005.phpt]
FAIL Test parse_url() function: Parse a load of URLs without
specifying PHP_URL_PASS as the URL component
[ext/standard/tests/url/parse_url_basic_006.phpt]
PASS Test phpinfo() displays xsl info [ext/xsl/tests/xsl-phpinfo.phpt]
Test parse_url() function: Parse a load of URLs without specifying
PHP_URL_PASS as the URL component
[ext/standard/tests/url/parse_url_basic_006.phpt]

r...@december [/dls/php/php-5.3.0]# uname -a
Linux december.pilotpig.net 2.6.18-128.1.1.el5.028stab062.3 #1 SMP Tue
May 5 17:31:34 MSD 2009 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux



The rest of the 9,400+ tests all came back with undesired results.
 There were no other problems on any of the dev boxes I tried this
morning, just the test results.

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Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP compiling

[Daniel Brown]

On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 12:42, Kenan R Sulayman kur...@kkooporation.de wrote:
 Hey Folks!
 I've got a error in compiling PHP ( 5.3+ ) (or executing the compiled PHP
 bin).
 It occurs with including php_xdebug.dll (alt. known as xDebug Server ).

 When executing the compiled binary of PHP.

 Any suggestions?

The best suggestions we can offer so far:

1.) This isn't an issue (at least from the sounds of it) for
the Internals list, and is better-suited to the Install and Xdebug
lists.  This reply goes to both so that you can find those lists.

2.) You never mentioned what the error states.  Remember to
include that when asking for help.

3.) Despite the insinuation that it's Windows based upon the
DLL, we have no real idea what operating system and version you're
using.  Please include that as well.

Please forward the information for #2 and #3 to either the Install
list or the Xdebug list, as appropriate.

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[PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP] POSIX 1003.1-2001 gethostname(2)

[Daniel Brown]

On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 16:26, Brian A. Seklecki
laval...@spiritual-machines.org wrote:

 All:

 Is anyone interested in adding POSIX 1003.1-2001 gethostname(2) support? I'm
 interested in sponsoring a small contract development initiative.

 I need something more reliable than $_ENV[].   Not all shells export
 $HOSTNAME by default.

Brian,

As you most likely mean the core engine, Brian, this email is
being forwarded to the Internals mailing list.  If you haven't
already, please consider subscribing to that list by sending a blank
email to intern...@lists.php.net.

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Re: [PHP-DEV] keeping traffic on this list manageable

[Daniel Brown]

On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 2:59 PM, Rasmus Lerdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 This is the same as just making internals@ read-only.  Once we have an
 internals-core, many core people will just unsubscribe from the internals
 list.  I know I probably would.  And once the core developers no longer read
 it, it becomes php-general2 and it ends up excluding people from the
 development process.

I'd also be concerned about patch submissions.  Would we leave
that on internals@ still, or create yet another list, [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [PHP-DEV] keeping traffic on this list manageable

[Daniel Brown]

On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 3:15 PM, Hannes Magnusson
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Read the whole thread before posting please:

 external patches and general discussions would still be on the
 internals@ list, as it would be the main discussion list.

I have been reading the entire thread, Hannes.  I do not have any
message that includes that quote.  If you'd forward that message to me
off-list, I'd be more than happy to read it.

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Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Sanity tally #2

[Daniel Brown]

On Sat, Oct 18, 2008 at 2:28 PM, Josh Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 2008/10/18 Keryx Web [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Triple colon as in suggestion 1 and 2 is a readability nightmare - yes in
 both suggestions.

 Is that why you voted for 3? Because triple colons are hard to read?

Is that a problem?

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Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Sanity tally #2

[Daniel Brown]

On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 11:08 AM, Chris Stockton
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I'm going to stop this tally at 50 responses. That should be enough to show
 us where people generally are coming from.

There are about six total concurrent threads on this right now.
Would it make sense to create an OFFICIAL voting thread and *only*
count new votes posted to that thread from now until the fifty-vote
mark?  Otherwise it seems that it introduces more confusion into an
already loaded issue.

Not to say that you're not already doing a fantastic job, Steph.
Just trying to help make your job easier.  ;-P

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Re: [PHP-DEV] Sanity tally #2

[Daniel Brown]

On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 3:33 PM, Steph Fox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I was hoping to have at least 30 respondees at this stage, but actually have
 29 (and that includes Hannes' abstention). However, to keep y'all up to
 date, here's where we're up to with Greg's proposals.


Sorry for coming late to the party.  Among other things, I've
*finally* been swapping my subscription address from my @gmail.com to
my @php.net address before Derick finally loses it and attacks me in a
dark parking lot.  ;-P

I'm strongly enough pro-three that I'd vote #3 twice, so feel
free to put me down for three points on #3.  Sounds like a campaign
slogan: Go Three For Three.

As to the second issue, because I don't have an firm, absolute
opinion on one side or the other of the issue as it stands now, I'll
take the route you and Hannes have both chosen and abstain.

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Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-DOC] [DOC] Commit messages dead?

[Daniel Brown]

Hannes,

I think both Thiago and Elizabeth are correct.  Call me old-hat: I
prefer CVS but I'm well aware that it's a daunting task to learn
that new technology for people who would otherwise not use it.  In
fact, most projects - including PHP - are moving away from CVS, in
favor of SVN, Git, et cetera.  If we don't encourage new people to
assist in the documentation - and foster them in the process - the
docs will suffer.  And if the docs suffer, the language is surely
going to lose it's position quickly.

I propose that the idea of creating a new web-based interface
moves forward, and that we put out a call for volunteers to build the
new system.  I'll even take on the responsibility of leading or
co-managing the project, and will donate hardware and bandwidth for
the development of the new system.

Even to build a system to integrate with the existing one would
not be too difficult.  Take ideas from the Wiki project, et al, and we
can have the results output as XML files if we really want to.  The
project could be as small as to fill the niche to offer an easy-to-use
web interface that uses BBCode-like markup and auto-commits to the CVS
repo, or as vast as creating a new, proprietary system.

If the proposal from here moves forward, we should set up a
convenient time when the initial Working Group can meet on IRC or
another medium to set the foundation and iron-out the initial details.

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Re: [PHP-DEV] [Fwd: [PATCH] Backport of HEADs output API]

[Daniel Brown]

On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 3:59 PM, Pierre Joye [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I strongly disagree, for two reasons:

 1. We are going to release an alpha3, that's the perfect time for such change
 2. The OB code is messy right now, Mike's work cleaned it up and makes
 it more maintainable. 5.3 is going to be here for a long time, let
 make our work easier.

I've just been reading the thread as it's gone along and not
contributing, but I'd like to add that I'm +1 with Pierre here.

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Re: [PHP-DEV] CVS to SVN Migration

[Daniel Brown]

On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 5:15 AM, Richard Quadling
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 As a windows user my observations/opinions are ...

 taken with a grain of salt.  ;-P

Isn't discussion about how to add on to SVN and which tools will
be better-suited for development a decade from now counterproductive
to the idea at hand?  SVN and CVS are the industry standard right now,
with SVN being the better-supported and, in many ways, more economical
and prudent approach.  I'd be afraid that requiring existing and
future developers to learn newer technologies would stall several
aspects of the project, introduce many new problems, and hinder the
advancement of the language as a whole.

There's no reason other things couldn't be introduced at a later
point, but my personal preference would be to approach the migration
one step at a time.  Making small bits of progress over time (while
simultaneously being able to focus on PHP) seems to be more sensible
than trying to radically change everything at once, negating a proven
system in favor of what might work better.

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Re: [PHP-DEV] GSoC Bugtracker Midterm Update

[Daniel Brown]

On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 2:37 PM, Barry Carlyon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 It was suggested that students write about what they have done and what they
 aim to achieve by the end

Can you name specifically three things you've learned during the
first half of the summer that you didn't know before?  For example:
working on this project also gave you familiarity with working with a
group and meeting deadlines; the project taught you how to work with
version control software; you developed a more intimate knowledge of
the PHP internals; et cetera.

We know what we're getting out of the experience with your
involvement with the project, I'm just curious as to how it's working
out on your end.

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Re: [PHP-DEV] GSoC Bugtracker Midterm Update

[Daniel Brown]

On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 6:53 PM, Barry Carlyon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 1) working with object orientated properly, writing classes and the like,
 this is my first time using classes that I have written,
 2) working with version control, git and cvs, I publish to my git local
 repo, and then push to CVS, I have some nice alias functions on my box to
 make it quicker,
 3) More difficult to pick something, for item 3, there is a lot I have
 learned, expanding my PHP, SQL (mysqli) knowledge, as well as all the team
 stuff and working with the team in a different way, I mean looking at them
 as users, rather than team members

4.) Not to top-post ;-P

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Re: [PHP-DEV] Volunteers for Subversion 1.5 conversion of cvs.php.net?

[Daniel Brown]

On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 8:05 PM, Rasmus Lerdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Now that Subversion 1.5 has been out for a little while and it is at the
 point where it might actually have some benefit to us, do we have some
 volunteers who have some time to try converting over the repository and all
 the post-commit and ACL rules from CVSROOT?

You can count me in.  I converted all of my websites and inside
projects from CVS to SVN earlier this year.  It seemed a daunting
task, but it was trivial at best.  I didn't use any of the automated
tools, though, I did it all manually.

 Talking to people here at OSCON, the consensus seems to be that moving to
 Subversion at this point would worthwhile.  The Git/Bzr/Merc folks have
 better tools to deal with a central svn repository than cvs at this point,
 and the svn workflow and Windows tools won't leave all our less technical
 committers floundering.

Not to mention the community of developers for SVN, add-ons, et
cetera, and the ease of use via Apache.

 I think the most convenient approach would be to do the conversion directly
 on the cvs.php.net machine and run the two side-by-side with periodic
 imports to svn while we test things and then a freeze and a switchover at
 some point.

I'd agree.  It may not hurt to write a quick script to do
real-life commits to both services from the command line, as well, in
the beginning.

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Re: [PHP-DEV] Volunteers for Subversion 1.5 conversion of cvs.php.net?

[Daniel Brown]

On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 8:28 PM, Andi Gutmans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I'd love to see this conversion. Let's make sure we get enough folks to
 volunteer to check the history of our source trees although we should in
 any case keep the CVS one around for browsing just in case...

Is this something with which we'd want only folks with existing
CVS accounts to help?  If we were to open up the initial SVN to people
not (or not yet) affiliated with the group, we may be able to garner
some responses from well-versed SVN folks (specifically CVS-to-SVN)
who may just not have time to dedicated to the advancement of PHP as a
whole.

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Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] E_USER_DEPRECATED

[Daniel Brown]

On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 7:41 PM, Pierre Joye [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 12:55 PM, Lars Strojny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi everbody,

 regarding my mail from yesterday, I've also created an RFC for the new
 error level.

+1

Sorry, I thought I'd already given my vote right after reading the
Wiki entry.

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[PHP-DEV] Mail Server Configuration

[Daniel Brown]

Just a quick note to whomever did the mail server configuration:

After a [enhancement pill name here] SPAM message from me (not
really, but you know what I mean) hit the Internals list and bounced
back, I saw the 550.

550: we're manly enough already

Nice.  That made my morning.  ;-P

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Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP 4.4.9

[Daniel Brown]

On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 10:29 AM, Andi Gutmans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I'm with Derick here. We should push out new releases when there are security 
 issues

As am I.  The EOL announcement itself justifies the release:

We will continue to make critical security fixes available on a
case-by-case basis until 2008-08-08.

While it does contradict one sentence prior by saying this:

After 2007-12-31 there will be no more releases of PHP 4.4.

 it's really just a matter of semantics.  To end all arguments
by satisfying that statement, a release could just be dubbed PHP 4.5.
That meets the requirements of the EOL by making the necessary fixes,
and still abides by the EOL on 4.4.x.  ;-P

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Re: [PHP-DEV] GSoC Bugtracker

[Daniel Brown]

On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 7:31 AM, Richard Quadling
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 If not having the OS option means more windows bugs will be fixed as the
 core-devs won't know if it is *nix or windows, then don't ask for the OS.
 (He he).

Please, Rich.  Even Microsoft isn't capable of that!

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Re: [PHP-DEV] Curl POST emalloc leak?

[Daniel Brown]

On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 3:04 AM, Rasmus Lerdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 start 326616
 GET 327256
 GET 327276
 GET 327276
 GET 327276
 GET 327276
 GET 327276
 GET 327276
 GET 327276
 GET 327276
 GET 327276
 POST 327516
 POST 327588
 POST 327652
 POST 327712
 POST 327892
 POST 328064
 POST 328228
 POST 328384
 POST 328528
 POST 328628

It's not a solution, Rasmus, but here's more data, taken from
5.2.4.  The results were exactly the same, in the same order, after
running your code ten times.

start 57140
GET 57820
GET 57820
GET 57820
GET 57820
GET 57820
GET 57820
GET 57820
GET 57820
GET 57820
GET 57820
POST 58244
POST 58492
POST 58728
POST 58948
POST 59060
POST 59164
POST 59264
POST 59360
POST 59452
POST 59452

When changing the for() loop in the curl() function to this:

?php
for($args='',$i=0;$i75;$i++) {
  $args .= $i == 0 ? a=$i : a=$i;
}
?

The results stabilize quicker:

start 57688
GET 58340
GET 58340
GET 58340
GET 58340
GET 58340
GET 58340
GET 58340
GET 58340
GET 58340
GET 58340
POST 58844
POST 59088
POST 59416
POST 59692
POST 59800
POST 59904
POST 59904
POST 59904
POST 59904
POST 59904

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Re: [PHP-DEV] Welcome GSoC students!

[Daniel Brown]

On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 6:53 PM, Johannes Schlüter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi,

  Google just announced the final assignments for their Summer of Code
  program for this year.
  On behalf of the PHP project I'd like to welcome our students and give
  you some general information about the project.

  The following projects have been accepted for the PHP project:

   Zend LLVM Extension
 by Joonas Govenius, mentored by Nuno Lopes
   PHP Optimizer
 by Samuel Graham Kelly IV, mentored by Derick Rethans
   PhD Improvements and Updates
 by Nicholas Sloan, mentored by Hannes Magnusson
   Replace auto* with CMake
 by Alejandro Leiva Rojas, mentored by Pierre A. Joye
   gsoc:2008 - XDebug
 by Chung-Yang Lee, mentored by David Coallier
   Rewrite the run-tests.php script
 by Cesar Montedonico, mentored by Travis Swicegood
   PHP Bindings for Cairo
 by Akshat Gupta, mentored by Anant Narayanan
   Algorithm Optimizations
 by Michal Dziemianko, mentored by Scott MacVicar
   PECL, Website Improvements
 by Barry Carlyon, mentored by Helgi Þormar Þorbjörnsson
   Implement Unicode into PHP 6
 by Henrique do Nascimento Angelo, mentored by Scott MacVicar

  See http://code.google.com/soc/2008/php/about.html for details about
  these projects.

Congrats, and welcome aboard everyone!

That's out of 16 project ideas, right, Johannes?  5/8ths
acceptance is not bad at all!

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Re: [PHP-DEV] Welcome GSoC students!

[Daniel Brown]

Of interesting note: the list rejected my earlier (second) reply
to your message, Johannes.  It claimed the Google BlogSpot URL was a
SPAMMY URL.

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Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: How PHP utilizes the Google SoC

[Daniel Brown]

 Philip Olson wrote:
   As for where the mentor SoC money goes, I think it finds its way
   towards random PHP user groups.

On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 11:48 PM, Rasmus Lerdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  The money goes directly to the students.  PHP as a project does not take
  any money.
  Technically we could, but we haven chosen in the past not to.

Gotcha'.  Thanks for clearing that up, fellas.

Good to know about the Wiki, too, Phillip.  I actually saw an
email come in this morning with the wiki.php.net domain as the
subject.  Maybe I'd been missing a lot of the discussion somehow, I
didn't know that it was still moving forward.

Thanks again, to both of you.

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Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: How PHP utilizes the Google SoC

[Daniel Brown]

On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 5:17 PM, Philip Olson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  The Google Summer of Code sponsors students to work on Open Source
  projects over each summer. This RFC introduces guidelines and goals
  involving how we handle the SoC process.
[snip=important info]

Philip (or anyone else who can answer);

According to the information I've read (and I'll admit, I've
*heard* of the GSoC, but am by no means familiar with it), the
organization receives a small stipend as the representative group.  My
question is: how is this usually spent?

The reason I ask is because I'd be very interested in mentoring a
student on a project if we can use this money to help move the RFC
Wiki (or similar) idea forward.  Besides, I'd be killing two birds
with one stone as it was, I was trying to figure out how I'd
afford the box and bandwidth as it is, because the Wiki idea - as I
think others may agree - is an excellent step toward the future of the
development of PHP.  So it's not an unselfish move on my part.

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Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP footprint and sharing code among SAPI binaries

[Daniel Brown]

On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 3:48 PM, Eugene San [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi all,


  I want to raise a discussion on subject that is very important for PHP
  usage on Embedded platforms.

  I am myself working on projects where we use PHP to manage embedded
  devices. Everything was fine but lately the need to work from flash
  memory appeared.
[snip!]

  Maybe someone already addressed footprint problem and has any kind of
  solutions for that?

  Please, any kind of information will helpful here.

Eugene,

Not sure if this will help you, but this is something I came
across last night while working on a way to create a 100% mobile
server and website on my Windows Mobile Treo (purely for geek
purposes).  I haven't had the chance to play with it, but if nothing
else, it may give you some ideas.

Pocket HPH:
http://mobileleap.net/hph/

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Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP.Net Site

[Daniel Brown]

On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 4:15 AM, Lokrain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hello there,

  I am not sure here is the right place to mention this, but
  I still think it will be cool, if there is some spell checking
  before posting news on php.net. There are mistakes like
  the word 'Addded' - perhaps should be 'Added'.

The problem with doing such for a programming language-related
website is that 60% (I'm just making up a number for posterity) would
be marked as misspelled.  And that would continue indefinitely as new
constructs, functions, classes, variables, resources, et cetera, are
added to the language and, in turn, the website.

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Re: [PHP-DEV] Role model RFC

[Daniel Brown]

On Feb 19, 2008 2:09 PM, Lukas Kahwe Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi,

 I really like what Stefan did here with his traits RFC. Very solid
 work, even if there are still some people not convinced if they want
 this feature in, I have seen little complaints about the way this
 proposal was made. Quite the contrary actually. I would like this kind
 of detailed thought to become more the norm. Even if at the very
 beginning of an idea this quality may not be immediately attainable,
 it should be the goal. So for every idea we should have at least
 someone who tries to bring the proposal to this kind of level as the
 discussions progress.

 For this proposal I would hope that it would be put on some host we
 can trust to not disappear and be updated with the feedback. I am
 still dreaming of a php.net wiki for this kind of stuff. If interested
 I do of course offer wiki.pooteeweet.org to host these RFC's for the
 time being. Using php.net/reST has the draw back of requiring
 cvs.php.net karma for maintenance, which would be problematic for new
 comers, unless we can do karma on a per file level for this?

I'd certainly be a +1 for a wide-open Wiki on php.net for this and
similar activities.  It's been mentioned for quite some time, and it
seems as though - despite the fact that PHP drives the most popular
Wiki software - we're the last to adopt it.  In any case, keeping it
open means that ALL people involved and with more than just a passing
interest can get involved in the C part of the RFC.

If it goes through, feel free to count me in as a volunteer to
moderate submissions, vandalism, and such.

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Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: На запрос: О семинаре

[Daniel Brown]

Bah.  You're right.  I glanced over it.

Guess my Russian's not as good as I thought it was to miss a city
name like that.

On Feb 7, 2008 10:43 AM, Vesselin Kenashkov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 location: г. Москва

 in translation: city of Moscow


 2008/2/7 Daniel Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 If people want to SPAM about a seminar, why not at least mention
  where it's going to be held?  :-\
 





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Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: На запрос: О семинаре

[Daniel Brown]

If people want to SPAM about a seminar, why not at least mention
where it's going to be held?  :-\

2008/2/7 Аленка [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Навыки эффективности. Умение управлять собой и временемДата проведения 
 семинара: Одиннадцатое - двенадцатое февраля 2OO8 г.
 Продолжительность: 2 дня
 г. МоскваСеминар ориентирован на тех, кто хочет определить свой деловой и 
 личный потенциал, развить необходимые навыки для достижения личных и 
 профессиональных целей и повысить эффективность во всех аспектах деловой 
 активности.Учебный курс и его цели:
 Развить навыки эффективности по направлениям:определение целей, приоритетов, 
 задач, ресурсов;эффективность в управлении временем (timemanagement); 
 коммуникативная эффективность; selfmanagement  - управление собой; управление 
 другими.Краткая информация о семинаре:Понятие эффективности. Определение 
 целей. Ресурсы и возможности. Составляющие деловой эффективности. Установки 
 на успех. Внутренняя активность и эмоциональный тон, как залог деловой и 
 личной эффективности. Эффективность руководителя.Целевая эффективность. 
 Управление целями, задачами и результатами. Эффективное планирование задач. 
 Как расставить приоритеты: определение последовательности действий в 
 зависимости от важности и срочности. Новые технологии (Концепция Дэвида 
 Алена). Авторские методики.Главные пожиратели и ловушки времени. Временные 
 резервы в эффективном взаимодействии с коллегами, клиентами и подчиненными. 
 Возможности делегирования.Время, как главный ресурс в управлении собой, 
 людьми и процессами. Определение ключевых областей, техника слона и другие 
 основные принципы планирования временных ресурсов. Принцип Парето и другие 
 популярные техники в практическом использовании.  Коммуникативная 
 эффективность. Что влияет на эффективность общения. Как сделать общение более 
 результативным. Особенности делового общения: как получить больше за меньшее 
 время и при этом производить хорошее впечатление? Приемы эффективного 
 достижения целей для всех ситуация делового общения. Выбор стиля общения в 
 зависимости от типологии собеседников и целей взаимодействия. Коммуникативные 
 техники, повышающие результативность наших контактов. Как получать максимум 
 информации за минимум времени, как поддержать диалог, приводить убедительные 
 аргументы, работать с не согласием (возражения, сопротивления, отказы). Как 
 производить максимально благоприятное впечатление  на окружающих: личный 
 имидж, эффективные приемы невербального общения.Особенности общения  с 
 подчиненными, с коллегами, партнерами и клиентами. Особенности личного и 
 публичного общения.Эффективность личных встреч: организационные и 
 коммуникативные аспекты.Деловое общение по телефону. Телефон: ваш помощник 
 или ловушка времени? Когда, зачем и как использовать телефон. Как уменьшить 
 временные затраты на телефонные переговоры и сделать звонки более 
 результативными. Основные законы эффективности для типовых звонков. 
 Внутренняя эффективность. Правильное поведение в трудных ситуациях: чужие 
 эмоции, конфликт, сопротивление. Внутренняя активность и эмоциональный тон, 
 как залог деловой и личной эффективности. Управление скрытым потенциалом 
 своих возможностей. Информацию можно получить по телефонам: (495) 742 9I  98, 
 967 68 22X298WI4



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Re: [PHP-DEV] get_magic_quotes_gpc, get-magic-quotes-runtime in head, get a final decision

[Daniel Brown]

On Feb 5, 2008 3:23 PM, Pierre Joye [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi,

 It seems that there is voices in favor of keeping the GPC related
 functions in HEAD/php6 but returning always FALSE.

Personally

+1

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Re: [PHP-DEV] get_magic_quotes_gpc, get-magic-quotes-runtime in head, get a final decision

[Daniel Brown]

On Feb 5, 2008 3:26 PM, Daniel Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Feb 5, 2008 3:23 PM, Pierre Joye [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Hi,
 
  It seems that there is voices in favor of keeping the GPC related
  functions in HEAD/php6 but returning always FALSE.

 Personally

 XX

VOTE CHANGED

-1

After a quick off-list discussion with Hannes (gotta' love Gmail
chat), I realized that I forgot to consider backwards-compatibility.

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Re: [PHP-DEV] get_magic_quotes_gpc, get-magic-quotes-runtime in head, get a final decision

[Daniel Brown]

On Feb 5, 2008 5:46 PM, Mike Willbanks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  I know they've been marked deprecated and all, but, really, what's
  the cost/penalty to having a couple functions around for legacy apps?
 

 Then we will continue to be at the same old issue of they exist, people will
 continue to use them and never move away from them.

Without expanding too much, I'd say that we're not going to
advertise the availability of the function, so people would no longer
use that.  However, removal of the function won't instantly break all
legacy scripts.  As Hannes and I were discussing off-list, I feel it's
something that should be removed in a Generation 7 or 8 release, but
with the function availability still existing in PHP5, I believe it's
too soon.

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Re: [PHP-DEV] Array syntax []

[Daniel Brown]

On Jan 11, 2008 10:30 AM, Markus Fischer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 -1

 Readability degrades quite a lot.

+1 (b)

Readability will only degrade as much as the coder allows it to.
Besides, I don't get the impression that array() is going to
disappear, only that another option is to be added.

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Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Square brackets shortcut

[Daniel Brown]

On Jan 10, 2008 9:39 AM, Sam Barrow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Thu, 2008-01-10 at 14:56 +0100, Hannes Magnusson wrote:
  So you reject scalar type hinting because it isn't type casting and
  can therefor confuses newbies - but scattering seemingly random
  brackets around your code (to safe 5 key strokes) is obvious to users?
 
  Noone would confuse this with named arguments?
  Why can't I do function foo([] $array) {} ?
 
  foo([]);
  $var = [];
  Is this really readable?
 
  Are you really serious about this?

 I don't think the only benefit in this would be to save keystrokes. I
 think it looks better, and makes code more readable, whereas the current
 way just looks like a function call.

Not only do I agree, but I'll also refer anyone wondering how well
it would really be adopted due to the initial difficulty in
recognizing the structure to the ternary operator.  Unless it's an
obvious condition and result, ternary operation itself is equally - if
not more - trivial to initially figure out than $a = [1,2,3];.

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Re: [PHP-DEV] U

[Daniel Brown]

On Jan 6, 2008 5:06 AM, Stefan Esser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hello Daniel,
  It may be off-topic for the initial post, but I disagree
  wholeheartedly with the above statement, Stefan.  There are
  innumerable reasons where $_REQUEST would be much more economic than
  writing out all conditions for $_POST, $_GET, $_SESSION, $_COOKIE
 
 it doesn't matter if you disagree with my statement, because that is
 just another personal opinion. It is a known fact that using $_REQUEST
 usually introduces security holes in applications.
 There is always $_COOKIE merged into it, which overwrites $_GET and
 $_POST. That means I just need to infect your browser with a cookie and
 have delayed cross site forgeries all over the place...

Believe me, I'm not saying you're wrong, because in 99%
(figurative, of course) of the production environments, $_REQUEST is a
horrible idea.  However, my opinion is just that there is a time and
place for it, and it shouldn't be written off completely.

For the record, I don't use it myself (save for scripts I write to
generate random number lists on my local dev box), it just isn't fair
to dismiss it with prejudice.

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Re: [PHP-DEV] U

[Daniel Brown]

On Jan 5, 2008 3:48 PM, Stefan Esser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hello,
  typing into PHP, even if it is optional.  Passing $_REQUEST['age'] to a
 
  that $_REQUEST['age'] has been checked for numeric before the functio

 would you please not use $_REQUEST in any of your examples? $_REQUEST is
 one of the biggest design weaknesses in PHP. Every application using
 $_REQUEST is most probably vulnerable to Delayed Cross Site Request
 Forgery problems. (This basically means if e.g. a cookie named (age)
 exists it will always overwrite the GET/POST content and therefore
 unwanted requests will be performed)

It may be off-topic for the initial post, but I disagree
wholeheartedly with the above statement, Stefan.  There are
innumerable reasons where $_REQUEST would be much more economic than
writing out all conditions for $_POST, $_GET, $_SESSION, $_COOKIE

It's certainly not 100% advantageous, but that's the reason why we
make the Big Bucks[tm], right?

*cough* Right?

/me cries softly in the corner.



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Re: [PHP-DEV] Internals read-only

[Daniel Brown]

I would say, if anything, there are two viable choices that
wouldn't adversely affect the PHP project:

1.) Have the Internals list read-only by all but (a)
developers/contributors and (b) people granted permission after having
posted useful information via the General list.

2.) Probably a better idea, just click that DELETE button on any
emails you don't feel like reading or responding to.  I find that, in
a case study performed by myself just now, it takes me about a
half-second to achieve success with this method.

By silencing the masses, you offer them little choice but to find
an alternative solution.  By closing out the discussions, even just
that much, you're turning PHP from a completely open source project,
in which all can participate and help mold the future of the language,
into a partially open source language.  Yes, the source code itself,
as created by the core developers, will still be available to the
public at large but any discussion on implementation of new ideas
could only really be achieved through a fork of the project.  Further,
how would you encourage new developers to join on if they couldn't
interact with - and get a feel for - those who actively post on this
list as it is?  By only allowing them to read the threads posted,
without the ability to ask questions, it's like reading a manual.  And
how often does the discussion in a published book evolve without
requiring a full reprint?

-- 
Daniel P. Brown
[Phone Numbers Go Here!]
[They're Hidden From View!]

If at first you don't succeed, stick to what you know best so that you
can make enough money to pay someone else to do it for you.

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To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

Re: [PHP-DEV] Internals read-only

[Daniel Brown]

On Dec 13, 2007 10:19 AM, Sean Coates [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 2.) Probably a better idea, just click that DELETE button on any
  emails you don't feel like reading or responding to.  I find that, in
  a case study performed by myself just now, it takes me about a
  half-second to achieve success with this method.
[snip!]

 However, because Jani's original post was buried in the middle of YET
 ANOTHER ridiculous debate on the best namespace operator, I actually
 had to go back to my trash and dig out the original mail after seeing
 Greg's reply and quoted text. I would never have seen it because I got
 trigger happy because almost all of this thread was absolute junk.

Yeah, I can empathize with that.  You have a point; I had to do
the same on my end.  Still, even if it's reduced to only current PHP
developers (which I wholeheartedly think is a Bad Idea[TM]), you're
still going to have SNR issues because the developers will still be
going back-and-forth.  It happens an ALL mailing lists --- even the
IETF lists (though there, at least, it's very self-regulated, at least
for now).

-- 
Daniel P. Brown
[Phone Numbers Go Here!]
[They're Hidden From View!]

If at first you don't succeed, stick to what you know best so that you
can make enough money to pay someone else to do it for you.

-- 
PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

[PHP-DEV] CVS Account Requests Working?

[Daniel Brown]

On 20 November I finally sent a request for a PHP CVS account
(danbrown), but still haven't received any acknowledgment.  However, I
realized that I was having problems with my email intermittently, with
some messages not routing through properly.  Does anyone here know how
I could check on the status of the account?

-- 
Daniel P. Brown
[Phone Numbers Go Here!]
[They're Hidden From View!]

If at first you don't succeed, stick to what you know best so that you
can make enough money to pay someone else to do it for you.

-- 
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To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

Re: [PHP-DEV] CVS Account Request: danbrown

[Daniel Brown]

On Dec 12, 2007 10:33 AM, Antony Dovgal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On 20.11.2007 21:57, Daniel P. Brown wrote:
  Assisting with maintenance of the php.net site, documentation,
  and bug fixes, as well as further developing the runtime and
  including bundled packages (perhaps such as the TTS bindings
  we created during the spring).

 Usually we don't give CVS accounts right away.
 It's recommended to start with sending patches to the appropriate lists.
 We all started this way, after all.

 And yes, CVS account requests work just fine.

Thanks, Antony.  I was just checking because (if memory serves
correctly) the site said that you'd generally hear back within a
week's time.  I've seen accounts granted to others over time, and I've
been around for quite a while.  Just thought that maybe I'd missed
something in my email while it was acting up.

-- 
Daniel P. Brown
[Phone Numbers Go Here!]
[They're Hidden From View!]

If at first you don't succeed, stick to what you know best so that you
can make enough money to pay someone else to do it for you.

-- 
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To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

Re: [PHP-DEV] Thoughts on Feature Request - Arithmetic

[Daniel Brown]

On Dec 7, 2007 9:51 AM, Nathan Rixham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 In-Built PHP Functions for parsing of basic arithmetic and if possible
 fraction to decimal and decimal to fraction

PHP already handles half of what you're looking for by default.

 $arithmetic_string = 3*5;
 echo arith($arithmetic_string); // returns float 15

?=3 * 5;?

 $arithmetic_string = 1/2;
 echo arith($arithmetic_string); // returns float 0.5

?=1 / 2;?

 $fraction_string = 1/4;
 echo fracdec($fraction_string); // returns float 0.25

?=1 / 4; ?

 $dec_string = 0.5;
 echo decfrac($dec_string); // returns string 1/4

Now I see why you need PHP to do your math for you!  ;-P

There are functions written that do this now though.

 I've used php for years, came accross the need for this today and was
 suprised such a basic command wasn't there.. currently the only way I
 can see to do it would be to eval.. which isn't the most secure method
 for such a basic need.

 Regards

 Nathan

 --
 PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
 To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php





-- 
Daniel P. Brown
[Phone Numbers Go Here!]
[They're Hidden From View!]

If at first you don't succeed, stick to what you know best so that you
can make enough money to pay someone else to do it for you.

-- 
PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

Re: [PHP-DEV] Garbage collector patch

[Daniel Brown]

On Dec 3, 2007 4:01 PM, Andi Gutmans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi all,



 Was hoping to send this off earlier but I was travelling for the past
 week and had very limited email access.

 As promised in the past few weeks we have spent a significant amount of
 time in reviewing the garbage collector work and testing it in our
 performance lab. Dmitry has been exchanging ideas and patches with David
 Wang during this time. Suffice to say that as I've mentioned in the
 past, memory management is an extremely sensitive piece of PHP, which is
 why it was important for us to review this work in great depth before
 committing it to the code base.



 The updated patch still retains the same algorithm as David's original
 implementation however the data structures have been changed in order to
 work faster and use less memory.



 The revised patch has the following advantages:
 - It fixes several crash bugs

 - Enhances performance by removing several unnecessary checks
 - The memory overhead was reduced (from 12 to 4 bytes for each
 heap-allocated zval)
 - The speed of clean PHP code (code that doesn't create cycles) was
 improved
  - Additional test cases were created

 The end result is a more stable and faster GC patch. That said we have
 yet to find real-life applications that create significant cycles which
 would benefit from this patch. In fact as you'll see from the results
 our tests show an increase in maximum memory use and slower execution
 (to be fair they are marginal).



 We have tested both PHP_5_3 without any patches, the original patch and
 the new patch.



 The following table shows execution time (seconds for N requests) and
 slowdown.



 PHP_5_3

 Original GC patch

 Current GC patch





 slowdown



 slowdown

 bench

 11,550

 12,310

 6,58%

 12,170

 5,37%

 hello

 8,781

 8,852

 0,81%

 8,813

 0,36%

 xoops

 128,500

 135,100

 5,14%

 130,200

 1,32%

 static

 18,540

 20,840

 12,41%

 18,920

 2,05%

 qdig

 29,320

 30,270

 3,24%

 29,610

 0,99%

 qdig2

 13,960

 14,100

 1,00%

 14,090

 0,93%

 The next table shows memory usage in MB and overhead



 PHP_5_3

 Original GC patch

 Current GC patch





 overhead



 overhead

 hello

 13,750

 13,945

 1,42%

 13,765

 0,11%

 xoops

 18,036

 18,636

 3,33%

 18,568

 2,95%

 static

 15,300

 16,000

 4,58%

 15,308

 0,05%

 qdig

 14,820

 15,008

 1,27%

 14,828

 0,05%

 qdig2

 14,824

 15,012

 1,27%

 14,838

 0,09%



 To summarize the patch lead to approx. 5% slowdown and 3% memory
 overhead for typical applications (as always, you mileage may vary
 depending on your system's architecture and OS although my guesstimate
 is that you will see even worse results in a 64bit environment). We also
 tested SugarCRM to get another sanity for these results and we got
 similar results.



 I am not quite sure where this leaves us with this patch. On one hand I
 think now the effort has been made it's a good thing to offer it as part
 of PHP. The downside is of course some performance degradation and
 possible instabilities as this patch continues to stabilize (it took
 about two releases for us to stabilize the Zend Memory Manager even
 after in-depth testing due to edge cases in allocation patterns and
 various extensions, etc...).I'd be surprised if our team has found all
 possible bugs.



 Personally I think the decision should be either in or out. Adding this
 as a compile option is not a good idea as it would create binary
 compatibility issues and would be a pain for the community. I think my
 inclination is to commit the patch, not have it #ifdef'ed but always
 compiled but to have the garbage collection itself turned off by default
 (mainly for stability reasons. Note: the increased memory footprint and
 performance loss also exists with the collection itself turned off). We
 can turn it on when we're in dev for snapshots so that we iron out bugs.
 That said, as you can see from the results most people and real-life
 applications will be worse off than today.



 Thanks to David  Dmitry for working hard on this (and everyone else who
 contributed).



 The stage is open for ideas/thoughts/suggestions J


 Andi



Andi,

I don't know about how it worked for anyone else, but the tables
didn't display properly on Gmail, so I had a hard time keeping up with
the performance differences.  If you have this in a separate file,
could you send it to me as an attachment?  I have a few real-world
benchmarks I'd like to try from the angle of the shared-webhost
industry (lots of users with horrible code running simultaneously, et
cetera) which I'd like to compare to your notes.

Thanks.

-- 
Daniel P. Brown
[office] (570-) 587-7080 Ext. 272
[mobile] (570-) 766-8107

If at first you don't succeed, stick to what you know best so that you
can make enough money to pay someone else to do it for you.

-- 
PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
To unsubscribe, visit: 

Re: [PHP-DEV] Garbage collector patch

[Daniel Brown]

That looks great, Andi.

Thanks.

On Dec 3, 2007 4:38 PM, Andi Gutmans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Sorry about that. Does the attached PDFed screenshot work for you?

 Andi


  -Original Message-
  From: Daniel Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 1:21 PM
  To: Andi Gutmans
  Cc: internals@lists.php.net
  Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Garbage collector patch
 
  On Dec 3, 2007 4:01 PM, Andi Gutmans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   Hi all,
  
  
  
   Was hoping to send this off earlier but I was travelling for the
 past
   week and had very limited email access.
  
   As promised in the past few weeks we have spent a significant amount
  of
   time in reviewing the garbage collector work and testing it in our
   performance lab. Dmitry has been exchanging ideas and patches with
  David
   Wang during this time. Suffice to say that as I've mentioned in the
   past, memory management is an extremely sensitive piece of PHP,
 which
  is
   why it was important for us to review this work in great depth
 before
   committing it to the code base.
  
  
  
   The updated patch still retains the same algorithm as David's
  original
   implementation however the data structures have been changed in
 order
  to
   work faster and use less memory.
  
  
  
   The revised patch has the following advantages:
   - It fixes several crash bugs
  
   - Enhances performance by removing several unnecessary checks
   - The memory overhead was reduced (from 12 to 4 bytes for each
   heap-allocated zval)
   - The speed of clean PHP code (code that doesn't create cycles)
 was
   improved
- Additional test cases were created
  
   The end result is a more stable and faster GC patch. That said we
  have
   yet to find real-life applications that create significant cycles
  which
   would benefit from this patch. In fact as you'll see from the
 results
   our tests show an increase in maximum memory use and slower
 execution
   (to be fair they are marginal).
  
  
  
   We have tested both PHP_5_3 without any patches, the original patch
  and
   the new patch.
  
  
  
   The following table shows execution time (seconds for N requests)
 and
   slowdown.
  
  
  
   PHP_5_3
  
   Original GC patch
  
   Current GC patch
  
  
  
  
  
   slowdown
  
  
  
   slowdown
  
   bench
  
   11,550
  
   12,310
  
   6,58%
  
   12,170
  
   5,37%
  
   hello
  
   8,781
  
   8,852
  
   0,81%
  
   8,813
  
   0,36%
  
   xoops
  
   128,500
  
   135,100
  
   5,14%
  
   130,200
  
   1,32%
  
   static
  
   18,540
  
   20,840
  
   12,41%
  
   18,920
  
   2,05%
  
   qdig
  
   29,320
  
   30,270
  
   3,24%
  
   29,610
  
   0,99%
  
   qdig2
  
   13,960
  
   14,100
  
   1,00%
  
   14,090
  
   0,93%
  
   The next table shows memory usage in MB and overhead
  
  
  
   PHP_5_3
  
   Original GC patch
  
   Current GC patch
  
  
  
  
  
   overhead
  
  
  
   overhead
  
   hello
  
   13,750
  
   13,945
  
   1,42%
  
   13,765
  
   0,11%
  
   xoops
  
   18,036
  
   18,636
  
   3,33%
  
   18,568
  
   2,95%
  
   static
  
   15,300
  
   16,000
  
   4,58%
  
   15,308
  
   0,05%
  
   qdig
  
   14,820
  
   15,008
  
   1,27%
  
   14,828
  
   0,05%
  
   qdig2
  
   14,824
  
   15,012
  
   1,27%
  
   14,838
  
   0,09%
  
  
  
   To summarize the patch lead to approx. 5% slowdown and 3% memory
   overhead for typical applications (as always, you mileage may vary
   depending on your system's architecture and OS although my
  guesstimate
   is that you will see even worse results in a 64bit environment). We
  also
   tested SugarCRM to get another sanity for these results and we got
   similar results.
  
  
  
   I am not quite sure where this leaves us with this patch. On one
 hand
  I
   think now the effort has been made it's a good thing to offer it as
  part
   of PHP. The downside is of course some performance degradation and
   possible instabilities as this patch continues to stabilize (it took
   about two releases for us to stabilize the Zend Memory Manager even
   after in-depth testing due to edge cases in allocation patterns and
   various extensions, etc...).I'd be surprised if our team has found
  all
   possible bugs.
  
  
  
   Personally I think the decision should be either in or out. Adding
  this
   as a compile option is not a good idea as it would create binary
   compatibility issues and would be a pain for the community. I think
  my
   inclination is to commit the patch, not have it #ifdef'ed but always
   compiled but to have the garbage collection itself turned off by
  default
   (mainly for stability reasons. Note: the increased memory footprint
  and
   performance loss also exists with the collection itself turned off).
  We
   can turn it on when we're in dev for snapshots so that we iron out
  bugs.
   That said, as you can see from the results most people and real-life
   applications will be worse off than today

Re: [PHP-DEV] Garbage collector patch

[Daniel Brown]

Markus,

If for some reason the PDF attachment didn't come through to you
on the list, let me know and I'll upload it to one of my servers for
you to download and use, as well.

On Dec 3, 2007 4:40 PM, Daniel Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 That looks great, Andi.

 Thanks.


 On Dec 3, 2007 4:38 PM, Andi Gutmans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Sorry about that. Does the attached PDFed screenshot work for you?
 
  Andi
 
 
   -Original Message-
   From: Daniel Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 1:21 PM
   To: Andi Gutmans
   Cc: internals@lists.php.net
   Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Garbage collector patch
  
   On Dec 3, 2007 4:01 PM, Andi Gutmans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi all,
   
   
   
Was hoping to send this off earlier but I was travelling for the
  past
week and had very limited email access.
   
As promised in the past few weeks we have spent a significant amount
   of
time in reviewing the garbage collector work and testing it in our
performance lab. Dmitry has been exchanging ideas and patches with
   David
Wang during this time. Suffice to say that as I've mentioned in the
past, memory management is an extremely sensitive piece of PHP,
  which
   is
why it was important for us to review this work in great depth
  before
committing it to the code base.
   
   
   
The updated patch still retains the same algorithm as David's
   original
implementation however the data structures have been changed in
  order
   to
work faster and use less memory.
   
   
   
The revised patch has the following advantages:
- It fixes several crash bugs
   
- Enhances performance by removing several unnecessary checks
- The memory overhead was reduced (from 12 to 4 bytes for each
heap-allocated zval)
- The speed of clean PHP code (code that doesn't create cycles)
  was
improved
 - Additional test cases were created
   
The end result is a more stable and faster GC patch. That said we
   have
yet to find real-life applications that create significant cycles
   which
would benefit from this patch. In fact as you'll see from the
  results
our tests show an increase in maximum memory use and slower
  execution
(to be fair they are marginal).
   
   
   
We have tested both PHP_5_3 without any patches, the original patch
   and
the new patch.
   
   
   
The following table shows execution time (seconds for N requests)
  and
slowdown.
   
   
   
PHP_5_3
   
Original GC patch
   
Current GC patch
   
   
   
   
   
slowdown
   
   
   
slowdown
   
bench
   
11,550
   
12,310
   
6,58%
   
12,170
   
5,37%
   
hello
   
8,781
   
8,852
   
0,81%
   
8,813
   
0,36%
   
xoops
   
128,500
   
135,100
   
5,14%
   
130,200
   
1,32%
   
static
   
18,540
   
20,840
   
12,41%
   
18,920
   
2,05%
   
qdig
   
29,320
   
30,270
   
3,24%
   
29,610
   
0,99%
   
qdig2
   
13,960
   
14,100
   
1,00%
   
14,090
   
0,93%
   
The next table shows memory usage in MB and overhead
   
   
   
PHP_5_3
   
Original GC patch
   
Current GC patch
   
   
   
   
   
overhead
   
   
   
overhead
   
hello
   
13,750
   
13,945
   
1,42%
   
13,765
   
0,11%
   
xoops
   
18,036
   
18,636
   
3,33%
   
18,568
   
2,95%
   
static
   
15,300
   
16,000
   
4,58%
   
15,308
   
0,05%
   
qdig
   
14,820
   
15,008
   
1,27%
   
14,828
   
0,05%
   
qdig2
   
14,824
   
15,012
   
1,27%
   
14,838
   
0,09%
   
   
   
To summarize the patch lead to approx. 5% slowdown and 3% memory
overhead for typical applications (as always, you mileage may vary
depending on your system's architecture and OS although my
   guesstimate
is that you will see even worse results in a 64bit environment). We
   also
tested SugarCRM to get another sanity for these results and we got
similar results.
   
   
   
I am not quite sure where this leaves us with this patch. On one
  hand
   I
think now the effort has been made it's a good thing to offer it as
   part
of PHP. The downside is of course some performance degradation and
possible instabilities as this patch continues to stabilize (it took
about two releases for us to stabilize the Zend Memory Manager even
after in-depth testing due to edge cases in allocation patterns and
various extensions, etc...).I'd be surprised if our team has found
   all
possible bugs.
   
   
   
Personally I think the decision should be either in or out. Adding
   this
as a compile option is not a good idea as it would create binary
compatibility issues and would be a pain

Re: [PHP-DEV] Garbage collector patch

[Daniel Brown]

On Dec 3, 2007 4:49 PM, Derick Rethans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Mon, 3 Dec 2007, Andi Gutmans wrote:

  Sorry about that. Does the attached PDFed screenshot work for you?

 No, as you can't attach files here

 Derick

 --
 Derick Rethans
 http://derickrethans.nl | http://ez.no | http://xdebug.org


I didn't think it would work on the list, but I figured if Andi
either sent it to me, or clicked Reply-All, either way it would be
delivered directly to my inbox, which it was.  So now it's here:
http://www.pilotpig.net/pdfs/

-- 
Daniel P. Brown
[office] (570-) 587-7080 Ext. 272
[mobile] (570-) 766-8107

If at first you don't succeed, stick to what you know best so that you
can make enough money to pay someone else to do it for you.

-- 
PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: CVSROOT / avail loginfo

[Daniel Brown]

On Nov 30, 2007 10:13 AM, Derick Rethans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Fri, 30 Nov 2007, Dan Scott wrote:

  In that case, you should:
 
  1) Have a legal entity that you can assign copyright to (PHP Group and
  PHP Documentation Group are not legal entities and therefore cannot
  hold copyright) and

 Actually, I think the issue is more that:

However, a ~couple months ago IBM gave permission to remove this
copyright (because the authors are listed as general contributors,
thus representing IBM) although we've not yet implemented this
removal. We did [temporary] remove it about six months ago but...

 There is no requirement in most countries* to show that something is
 copyrighted, as it's a basic right. It's protected by default, so the
 whole (c) 2005  IBM Corporation is unnecessary. None of the other
 contributers ever required something like this.

 * Atleast in the Netherlands, and what I gather from wikipedia also in
 the US through the Berne convention
 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention_for_the_Protection_of_Literary_and_Artistic_Works)


 regards,

 Derick

 --
 Derick Rethans
 http://derickrethans.nl | http://ez.no | http://xdebug.org

Derick,

You're completely correct, if they reside in a country that signed
on with the Berne Convention.  The only reason one would want to
register the Copyright (in the United States) would be if there was
anticipated infringement for which the author or Copyright holder
would be eligible for legal recourse.

http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-general.html#mywork

-- 
Daniel P. Brown
[office] (570-) 587-7080 Ext. 272
[mobile] (570-) 766-8107

If at first you don't succeed, stick to what you know best so that you
can make enough money to pay someone else to do it for you.

-- 
PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: CVSROOT / avail loginfo

[Daniel Brown]

On Nov 30, 2007 10:37 AM, Jay Pipes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

[snip]

 With PHP, the situation is different. The foundation of PHP was laid by
 Rasmus Lerdorf together with a large group of independent developers,
 and the central parts of PHP underly a different license and copyright
 regime from MySQL.

On a side note, did anyone ever say thank you to Rasmus, Zeev,
or Andi?  I jumped on with PHP after finding it by accident back in
1997, and have never regretted it for a moment.  It's so much less
stressful - and allows me to retain more hair - than Perl.  You guys
saved my ass a bunch of times without even knowing me!

We now return you to your regularly-scheduled debate thread.

-- 
Daniel P. Brown
[office] (570-) 587-7080 Ext. 272
[mobile] (570-) 766-8107

If at first you don't succeed, stick to what you know best so that you
can make enough money to pay someone else to do it for you.

-- 
PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: CVSROOT / avail loginfo

[Daniel Brown]

On Nov 29, 2007 6:03 AM, Derick Rethans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Thu, 29 Nov 2007, Marcus Boerger wrote:

I do not care for IBM problems. Not at all. If people want to commit
  they can do it in their free time. If IBM now thinks they have to make
  PHP suitable for their own stuff then they are obviously willing to
  spend quite some interest because they have a much bigger business
  interest. That said I am confident they can find ways to deal with it
  inside IBM itself. But they do not like to do it as that would be much
  more expensive for them. Also the trouble is that then they would need
  to be real open source.

 To add to this, I think that if IBM (and others) are so keen on having
 PHP support their nice databases, they should also realize that it is
 them that should be nice to *us* and not the other way around. We (as in
 PHP project) shouldn't have to change the ways how we're dealing with
 contributions at all. It should be the big companies that actually have
 a financial interested in PHP supporting their software that open up
 more and appease us.

 regards,
 Derick

 --
 Derick Rethans
 http://derickrethans.nl | http://ez.no | http://xdebug.org


Well, like I said at the tail of my last message, I was exhausted.
 This morning, over a nice, hot cup of coffee (very welcome after
coming in from the snow outside), I took a better look at the whole
thing.  That, coupled with your responses (thank you, Rasmus, Marcus,
and Derick), gives a much clearer picture.  What concerns me now is
that I - and I'm sure many others - wasn't even aware of this until
this thread popped up.  It almost seems like the beginnings of a
long-term hostile takeover plan, beginning quietly in the shadows.


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Daniel P. Brown
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Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: CVSROOT / avail loginfo

[Daniel Brown]

On Nov 29, 2007 12:01 PM, Stanislav Malyshev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  this thread popped up.  It almost seems like the beginnings of a
  long-term hostile takeover plan, beginning quietly in the shadows.

 Come on... Really.

 --
 Stanislav Malyshev, Zend Software Architect
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.zend.com/
 (408)253-8829   MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


It would certainly be cheaper than the $3.3 Billion they bid for Lotus.

P.S. - Apparently sarcasm isn't always read as such.  I may have
used a sarcasm-less MIME type when sending.  ;-P

-- 
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Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: CVSROOT / avail loginfo

[Daniel Brown]

On Nov 29, 2007 1:09 PM, David Coallier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Nov 29, 2007 12:49 PM, Steph Fox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   So, what, exactly, is the fuss all about?
 
  Richard, the problem with a CLA (moral quibbles apart) is it prevents any of
  the core contributors doing anything with the code. As in:
 
  +# PDO Specs. CLA required to commit
  +unavail||pdo-specs
 
  That's what 'unavail' means.
 
   Surely all this us/them, silence behind doors, etc., is just FUD?
 
  Show me where there's been any open discussion and I'll agree with you.
 
   If IBM, or anyone, wants to submit code to PHP it can only improve things.
 
  Sure, but if IBM, or anyone, wants to prevent the people who work on the PHP
  core from touching that code don't you think there might be a teensy bit of
  an issue there?
 
   We do have peer-review after all.
 
  Not on CLA'd code we don't.
 
  - Steph
 
 
  --
  PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
  To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
 
 

 Ok this is driving me nuts:

 http://url.ie/730
 or
 http://tinyurl.com/2242cf

 (They are both going to the same place but some people have preferences)



 --
 David Coallier,
 Founder  Software Architect,
 Agora Production (http://agoraproduction.com)
 51.42.06.70.18


Dave,

There was no place for me to type my response to the final question.  ;-P

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Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: CVSROOT / avail loginfo

[Daniel Brown]

On Nov 29, 2007 5:56 PM, Stanislav Malyshev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 No, it is not more important. 99.9% of PHP users don't care what process
 we have, they care about how well PHP works for them. If we had best
 process in the world but no support for what people need - people won't
 use PHP just to commend us for oh so good process. Process is important,
 but it's a *tool*, not the *goal*.

Actually, I believe the latest Gallup Poll sponsored by CNN put
that number at 97.3%.  ;-P

Besides, as I read the message you quoted, my understand was that
Pierre was inferring that it's more important for the community to
have standardized guidelines for contributions, rather than bend to
the whim of one party: in this case, IBM.

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[mobile] (570-) 766-8107

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Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-CVS] cvs: CVSROOT / avail loginfo

[Daniel Brown]

On Nov 28, 2007 5:49 PM, Rasmus Lerdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Lukas Kahwe Smith wrote:
 
  On 28.11.2007, at 00:28, Pierre wrote:
 
  One word: transparency.
 
  It is amazing how it helps to discuss things instead of acting like that.
 
  I find it amazing how oblivious to community concerns this all is.
  Anyways, from some other discussions I gathered that the main thing that
  is currently being talked about is CLA's. Once they have a CLA in place
  they will open the discussions. From what I hear at least part of the
  previous secret discussions will then be opened as well via some kind
  of archive.

 I agree.  As most of you know, I met with IBM a couple of years ago the
 last time they were keen on getting a CLA in place so they could
 contribute more.  I voiced my skepticism, but kept an open mind and put
 the ball in their court asking them to write up a detailed explanation
 of how a CLA will help the average PHP contributor.  They said they
 would do that and disappeared never to be heard from again.

 My stance on this hasn't changed.  I don't care the slightest how a CLA
 helps them, I want to hear what it does for us.  The obvious benefit for
 the project is to get more contributions, but the cost of those
 contributions in terms of a CLA burden has to be weighed.  And so far
 nobody has adequately justified why the average PHP contributor should
 sign a CLA.

 The existing CLA stuff on IBM-specific stuff like DB2, SDO and IDS was
 something I didn't care much about since it was pretty much entirely an
 IBM effort and I doubted there would be a general interest in those
 things, which has pretty much turned out to be the case.  But I am very
 much against expanding this to cover more of PHP and encroaching on
 general-purpose things that a large number of non-patent encumbered PHP
 contributors would have an interest in.

 So yes, before this goes any further, we need full disclosure here and a
 really well thought out explanation by someone convincing us of the
 benefits of signing a CLA.  Barring that, I am with Marcus and Lukas on
 this.  Keep it out of PHP CVS and host it somewhere else.

 -Rasmus

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Without sounding too naive on this, I hope, isn't it also possible
that IBM's internal policies require them to have CLAs in place for
tax and documentation purposes?  Or perhaps to cover their own
engineers from liability by claiming them as open source developers,
protected under the agreement accepted, ultimately, by the end user.

I'd concur that it doesn't belong in the PHP CVS because it's out
of the scope and spirit of the initial project, but is it really such
a Big Brother issue?  It states that all developers are completely
free to use and redistribute any code they commit to the repository
and the project as a whole, and further, that any user can then use it
freely to create derivative works from said code, et cetera.

Of course, it does lay the groundwork for new licensing in the
future, whereby this project could eventually take on more and more of
PHP, until a project that began as open source joins the ranks as a
commercial competitor to ASP and Java.

Then again, maybe I'm missing something or just blowing smoke out
of my ass.  I'm exhausted, but I'm trying to understand a bit more
about the hot-button parts of the issue.

-- 
Daniel P. Brown
[office] (570-) 587-7080 Ext. 272
[mobile] (570-) 766-8107

If at first you don't succeed, stick to what you know best so that you
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Re: [PHP-DEV] Quick question before submitting a feature request...

[Daniel Brown]

Ken,

This same issue was referred to back in 2004 on the php.net site.
I just looked it up and the post can be found by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
from 9 September, 2004, on this page:
http://us.php.net/errorfunc


On Nov 23, 2007 12:32 AM, Ken Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I completely agree with what you and Alexy suggest. I've since refactored my
 code accordingly so that an exception would not be thrown while inside of an
 exception. But, that does not answer my original question. I asked about
 submitting a feature request that would simply provide more information in
 the unfortunate event that anybody's code inadvertantly throws an exception
 while in an exception, and whether or not it would be advantageous to do so,
 or if work was already being done on this very issue.

 The current error provides no information at all (e.g., no file name or line
 number of the offending exception), which in some cases makes it nearly
 impossible to debug. My apologies if I was not clear enough in my first
 e-mail. :)

 On Nov 22, 2007 12:21 AM, Evert | Rooftop [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Perfect code should catch every exception. If your code is at a point
  where exceptions can be thrown, you should be using catch to actually
  catch the exception and handle the exception appropriately.
 
  set_exception_handler should in fact only be used to spot a bug in your
  code.. A bug being in this case, not catching an expected exception. Its
  the last fallback.. If you really need complex code tied to your
  exception handler, then use a try..catch block there too..
 
  Evert

 



 --
 It looked like something resembling white marble, which was
 probably what it was: something resembling white marble.
-- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy




-- 
Daniel P. Brown
[office] (570-) 587-7080 Ext. 272
[mobile] (570-) 766-8107

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Re: [PHP-DEV] PHp Warning

[Daniel Brown]

On 10/24/07, John Mertic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Yes, remove any lines in your php.ini that reference those files.

 John

 On 10/24/07, sivasakthi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Hi All,
 
  When ever i have executed the php files it throws the following warning
  message,
 
 
  PHP Warning:  PHP Startup: Unable to load dynamic library
  '/usr/lib/php/modules/msql.so' - /usr/lib/php/modules/msql.so: cannot
  open shared object file: No such file or directory in Unknown on line 0
  PHP Warning:  PHP Startup: Unable to load dynamic library
  '/usr/lib/php/modules/odbc.so' - libodbc.so.1: cannot open shared object
  file: No such file or directory in Unknown on line 0
  PHP Warning:  PHP Startup: Unable to load dynamic library
  '/usr/lib/php/modules/pdo_odbc.so' - libodbc.so.1: cannot open shared
  object file: No such file or directory in Unknown on line 0
 
 
 
  How can i eliminate  that??  is that a problem of php installation???
 
 
  Thanks,
  Siva
 


 --
 John Mertic
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://jmertic.wordpress.com

 Explaining a joke is like dissecting a frog: you understand it
 better, but the frog dies
 in the process. --Mark Twain

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Or just comment it out by adding a semicolon to the front of the line.

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[mobile] (570-) 766-8107

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Re: [PHP-DEV] My musings on problems I've had with the PHP community

[Daniel Brown]

On 10/15/07, Bill Moran [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 http://www.potentialtech.com/cms/node/48

 Hope that article doesn't come across as too harsh, but I really feel
 like it needed to be said.

 --
 Bill Moran
 http://www.potentialtech.com

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Bill,

Since your blog post didn't allow comments, I'm submitting the
original message thread in question right here:

 On Thu, May 3, 2007 6:59 am, Crayon wrote:
 On Thursday 03 May 2007 03:18, Richard Lynch wrote:
 On Wed, May 2, 2007 1:14 pm, Bill Moran wrote:
  http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=39062

 This discussion may be better placed on Internals where the people
 who make these decisions hang out more...

 Maybe Bill wanted us lowly users to know that the all powerful
 developers
 aren't listening to their users.

 :-)

 Some of them are definitely listening here.

 And all of them are trying to juggle needs/demands/desires of an
 enormous community with more variety than, errr, dog species?

 Lord knows I'm not real happy with some of the decisions/directions,
 but you know what?  Anybody *really* unhappy that cares enough can get
 off their butt and start submitting patches, and push things a
 different direction.  Self included, mind you. :-)

It seems to me that Lynch was actually just saying, you seem as
though you have the technical know-how, so jump in feet-first and
let's get going!  It wasn't ripping [you] a new one, as you
suggested in your post, unless your old one was that defective in
the first place and was inadvertently replaced by the new one.  ;-P

Before you make a public post demeaning the community that drives
the project you are using, no doubt, to help put food on your table,
why not take a moment to read this fantastic Wikipedia article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm

-- 
Daniel P. Brown
[office] (570-) 587-7080 Ext. 272
[mobile] (570-) 766-8107

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Re: [PHP-DEV] VS 2005 Support for 5.3?

[Daniel Brown]

 On 02/10/2007, Pierre [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Hi,
 
  One important thing we forgot to discuss is to drop VS6 support fin
  5.3 and finally move to VS2005.
 
  It has a couple of side effects but it is a one time job and should
  make our life easier on windows from 5.3 and up.
 
  Comments?

Pierre,

Off the top of your head, what side effects do you already
anticipate, specifically?  Also, I think Rich makes a good point about
the free Microsoft VS2005 Express Edition, but I don't know how much
more of a pain it would be to target that, or if it would cause
long-term issues or detriment to the progress.


-- 
Daniel P. Brown
[office] (570-) 587-7080 Ext. 272
[mobile] (570-) 766-8107

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Re: [PHP-DEV] How to integrate PHP with my homegrown server

[Daniel Brown]

On 8/24/07, Steve Francisco [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[snip!]
 If the command line doesn't have a way to cause $_GET to be populated,
 then what other way of invoking PHP could I use?
 -- Steve

Steve,

You'd need to transpose the $_GET variables from the request to
$argv variables via the CLI.  I don't know exactly how Java would
handle it, but the PHP equivalent (though rather recursive and
unnecessary, it's just here for demonstration purposes) would be:

?
foreach($_GET as $p = $v) {
$data .=  .$p.=.$v;
}
exec('`which php` '.$filename.$data,$ret); // This would work on Linux
// exec('X:\path\to\php.exe '.$filename.$data,$ret);
?

Then, in the PHP script, if it wants $_GET variables, you simple
reverse-transpose the variables like so:

?
// cliscript.php
// Test this from the CLI like so:
// php cliscript.php nothing=nill apple=orange foo=bar testvar=itworks

for($i=1;$icount($argv);$i++) {
$variables = split(=,$argv[$i]);
$_GET[$variables[0]] = $variables[1];
}

echo $_GET['testvar'].\n;
?


Of course, remember to sanitize all of your input properly.
Someone else will probably provide a better example than this in some
way, but in the interest of a quick reply, that will get you started.

-- 
Daniel P. Brown
[office] (570-) 587-7080 Ext. 272
[mobile] (570-) 766-8107

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Re: [PHP-DEV] How to integrate PHP with my homegrown server

[Daniel Brown]

On 8/24/07, Steve Francisco [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[snip!]
 Thanks Daniel, I can certainly do that in Java without much trouble,
 however I was hoping to avoid needing to do things in each php file to
 convert argv into $_GET.  I want to be able to serve standard PHP
 without modifying each one.

 But you made me realize there is a way.  I wrote a small pre.php file
 like this:
 ?php
 #
 for($i=1;$icount($argv);$i++) {
 $variables = split(=,$argv[$i]);
 $_GET[$variables[0]] = $variables[1];
 }
 ?

 and in my php.ini, I set this:
 auto_prepend_file =e:\php523\pre.php

 Now it works fine without having to modify the php code!  All I need to
 do is have the Java code set up the html parms as argv, and I'm done.
 -- Steve

That was actually what I was getting at, but because I went to
test it on my own box to be certain it would work, I apparently forgot
to type it into the email.

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Daniel P. Brown
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[mobile] (570-) 766-8107

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