Re: [JBoss-dev] Recruiting new developers
Micael, I started on JBoss about a year and a half ago and there was almost no usable documentation, so I just read the code. It is very simple and fairly logical (except mine :) ). Are you interested in working on some part of the server? If you are, send me a email and I'll tell you where the code can be found. -dain micael wrote: > >> >> you *are* crying. Look there are really 3 ways to get seriously into >> the codebase. > > > No, I am not. Trust me. > >> 1- Go dig bugs. You can't imagine the number that still come out of the >> blue saying "bug here, fixed". JBoss is not a magical whole with a >> magic formula where TADA you know it all. It is a collection of loosely >> coupled modules and some of the problems are skin deep. Fixing bugs is >> the simplest way > > > This is an overview not available to those in the position I outlined. > >> 2- Buy the documentation (development). In fact that doco is really >> targeted at you guys, you can read all of it to know everything that is >> going on module by module. > > > Been there, did that. The documentation was unfinished, blah, blah, > without pre-advertising the fact, and not helpful. > >> 3- Come to a training and get certified. Let's face it the only way you >> are going to spend a week solid learning about JBoss is if you take a >> week off and train yourself. That is also how we make our living so >> really it is the best solution for everyone. > > > I realize you want to make money via training. I wouldn't mind the > trips myself, etc., etc. I have wondered if you have decided to keep > things dark for that purpose. If I had the bucks to toss around, > believe me I would do that, because I like to code more than I like to > drink and to fish. I love coding. > >> FYI I gave 2 passwords RW JUST today, one to a person working on the XA >> stuff with David (bug fixing and good work) and the other one to a star >> student of the palma training who had already submitted 3 fixes and >> showed great understanding (shouldn't say "student" since michael is >> probaly 40 :). Both are extremelly promising and producing top code. > > > That is great. I could do well with a bit of training too. > >> So stop crying, I am totally unimpressed by your "story", just get going >> and do it, there are many ways to get in. > > > Yah, I know if I want to "dedicate" myself to JBoss, that can be done. > I have to decide in my training where I put my priorities. If the JBoss > thing is going to take a lot of initial bucks for a lot of initial > effort to get over a hump that could be easy down the line, with other > things, I will wait. > >> Get in, I hope to see you at the next hosted training. >> >> marcf > > > I would like to be at the next hosted training, scholarships (?). I > would almost be willing to bet you the price of admission that I would > be the best student, but my arrogance has been diluted a bit over the > years. Thanks for taking the time on this, I guess. But, on the crying > thing, screw you too. > > Micael > > > > > > --- > This sf.net email is sponsored by: OSDN - Tired of that same old > cell phone? Get a new here for FREE! > https://www.inphonic.com/r.asp?r=sourceforge1&refcode1=vs3390 > ___ > Jboss-development mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development -- Dain Sundstrom Chief Architect JBossCMP JBoss Group, LLC --- This sf.net email is sponsored by: OSDN - Tired of that same old cell phone? Get a new here for FREE! https://www.inphonic.com/r.asp?r=sourceforge1&refcode1=vs3390 ___ Jboss-development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
RE: [JBoss-dev] Recruiting new developers
I think it is odd that you want to recruit new developers with these negative responses. Getting new talented people to help with a project might take a bit of sugar to get things moving. Comments like this, and others which you are prone to, will only make it harder to find talented individuals who are willing to spend their free time to help JBoss and thus help JBoss Group, which ultimately helps you. Seriously, a more supportive and friendly environment would do wonders for JBoss. That does not mean that some folks don't deserve a little smack around now and then, but that should be the exception and not the policy. We are asking for help, but when help shows up we give them a big slap and tell them to go figure it out themselves. How does that help anything? Sure for the select few it might encourage them to prove themselves by digging into the code and sorting out the madness, but as you have mentioned before we don't need people proving their worth, we need good people who can produce quality code. Think about it. Think how a small change to our PR could dramatically help JBoss... or keep telling folks to SMD. --jason > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:jboss- > [EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of marc fleury > Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 5:13 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [JBoss-dev] Recruiting new developers > > > sites, but know little about JBoss. I came here to learn > > about a year ago > > but left, not feeling welcome. Not crying, just letting you > > know. I have > > you *are* crying. Look there are really 3 ways to get seriously into > the codebase. > > 1- Go dig bugs. You can't imagine the number that still come out of the > blue saying "bug here, fixed". JBoss is not a magical whole with a > magic formula where TADA you know it all. It is a collection of loosely > coupled modules and some of the problems are skin deep. Fixing bugs is > the simplest way > > 2- Buy the documentation (development). In fact that doco is really > targeted at you guys, you can read all of it to know everything that is > going on module by module. > > 3- Come to a training and get certified. Let's face it the only way you > are going to spend a week solid learning about JBoss is if you take a > week off and train yourself. That is also how we make our living so > really it is the best solution for everyone. > > FYI I gave 2 passwords RW JUST today, one to a person working on the XA > stuff with David (bug fixing and good work) and the other one to a star > student of the palma training who had already submitted 3 fixes and > showed great understanding (shouldn't say "student" since michael is > probaly 40 :). Both are extremelly promising and producing top code. > > So stop crying, I am totally unimpressed by your "story", just get going > and do it, there are many ways to get in. > > Get in, I hope to see you at the next hosted training. > > marcf > > > > > --- > This sf.net email is sponsored by: Dice - The leading online job board > for high-tech professionals. Search and apply for tech jobs today! > http://seeker.dice.com/seeker.epl?rel_code=31 > ___ > Jboss-development mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development --- This sf.net email is sponsored by: OSDN - Tired of that same old cell phone? Get a new here for FREE! https://www.inphonic.com/r.asp?r=sourceforge1&refcode1=vs3390 ___ Jboss-development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
RE: [JBoss-dev] Recruiting new developers
In my 11 year career I have yet to be on a software project that had complete, simple, up-to-date documentation on the overall design of the system. If you're a "very talented coder", then you're just being lazy. Andreas is right, newbies need to show initiative. > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of > micael > Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 2:11 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [JBoss-dev] Recruiting new developers > > > I think that sometimes people do not see the effort a newbie has put into > something, because putting yourself into their place is also > difficult, and > is not so urgent, i.e. their pain is not your pain. I paid to get > documentation that turned out to be a work in progress and have never > really gotten value for the money. Maybe that has now changed. The site > sure looks better. I downloaded the 3.0 start kit and will see. > But, I am > not putting in more money until I make sure I am getting something > back. The sad thing is that I am a very talented coder who would love to > be involved with coding on JBoss. Well, not that sad. I need to get a > grip here. ///;-) Thanks for taking the time, Andreas. > > At 04:36 PM 8/14/2002 -0700, you wrote: > >Hi > > > >Everyone is welcomed to write docu but only a few did so. I know to > >start with JBoss is difficult but I don't think that people don't welcome > >beginners (see the JBoss forum, the new JBoss 3.0 docu etc.) but user > >questions are not welcomed on the developer list (that is why it is a > >developer list). > > > >The only important step I expect for a newcomer is to show initiative. > >I hate questions like "please help I don't understand this" but I help if > >someone is coming with a questions that shows initiative. So first search > >on the JBoss forum (maybe the questions is already solved), then check > >the docu and finally go to the forum. > > > > > Another (additional) way would be to provide snappy and easy to read > > > introductions to the basic code layout in JBoss. I am a Java > Certified > > > Programmer, so I know a little about Java, and I have coded many large > > > sites, but know little about JBoss. I came here to learn > about a year ago > > > but left, not feeling welcome. Not crying, just letting you > know. I have > > > a big interest in JBoss and am a real fan, but do not have > time to climb > > > uphill to learn with you. Hasta la differences? > > > >Have fun > > > >x > >Andreas Schaefer > >Senior Consultant > >JBoss Group, LLC > >x > > > > > > > > > >--- > >This sf.net email is sponsored by: Dice - The leading online job board > >for high-tech professionals. Search and apply for tech jobs today! > >http://seeker.dice.com/seeker.epl?rel_code=31 > >___ > >Jboss-development mailing list > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development > > > > > --- > This sf.net email is sponsored by: OSDN - Tired of that same old > cell phone? Get a new here for FREE! > https://www.inphonic.com/r.asp?r=sourceforge1&refcode1=vs3390 > ___ > Jboss-development mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development --- This sf.net email is sponsored by: OSDN - Tired of that same old cell phone? Get a new here for FREE! https://www.inphonic.com/r.asp?r=sourceforge1&refcode1=vs3390 ___ Jboss-development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
RE: [JBoss-dev] Recruiting new developers
> >you *are* crying. Look there are really 3 ways to get seriously into >the codebase. No, I am not. Trust me. >1- Go dig bugs. You can't imagine the number that still come out of the >blue saying "bug here, fixed". JBoss is not a magical whole with a >magic formula where TADA you know it all. It is a collection of loosely >coupled modules and some of the problems are skin deep. Fixing bugs is >the simplest way This is an overview not available to those in the position I outlined. >2- Buy the documentation (development). In fact that doco is really >targeted at you guys, you can read all of it to know everything that is >going on module by module. Been there, did that. The documentation was unfinished, blah, blah, without pre-advertising the fact, and not helpful. >3- Come to a training and get certified. Let's face it the only way you >are going to spend a week solid learning about JBoss is if you take a >week off and train yourself. That is also how we make our living so >really it is the best solution for everyone. I realize you want to make money via training. I wouldn't mind the trips myself, etc., etc. I have wondered if you have decided to keep things dark for that purpose. If I had the bucks to toss around, believe me I would do that, because I like to code more than I like to drink and to fish. I love coding. >FYI I gave 2 passwords RW JUST today, one to a person working on the XA >stuff with David (bug fixing and good work) and the other one to a star >student of the palma training who had already submitted 3 fixes and >showed great understanding (shouldn't say "student" since michael is >probaly 40 :). Both are extremelly promising and producing top code. That is great. I could do well with a bit of training too. >So stop crying, I am totally unimpressed by your "story", just get going >and do it, there are many ways to get in. Yah, I know if I want to "dedicate" myself to JBoss, that can be done. I have to decide in my training where I put my priorities. If the JBoss thing is going to take a lot of initial bucks for a lot of initial effort to get over a hump that could be easy down the line, with other things, I will wait. >Get in, I hope to see you at the next hosted training. > >marcf I would like to be at the next hosted training, scholarships (?). I would almost be willing to bet you the price of admission that I would be the best student, but my arrogance has been diluted a bit over the years. Thanks for taking the time on this, I guess. But, on the crying thing, screw you too. Micael --- This sf.net email is sponsored by: OSDN - Tired of that same old cell phone? Get a new here for FREE! https://www.inphonic.com/r.asp?r=sourceforge1&refcode1=vs3390 ___ Jboss-development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
Re: [JBoss-dev] Recruiting new developers
I think that sometimes people do not see the effort a newbie has put into something, because putting yourself into their place is also difficult, and is not so urgent, i.e. their pain is not your pain. I paid to get documentation that turned out to be a work in progress and have never really gotten value for the money. Maybe that has now changed. The site sure looks better. I downloaded the 3.0 start kit and will see. But, I am not putting in more money until I make sure I am getting something back. The sad thing is that I am a very talented coder who would love to be involved with coding on JBoss. Well, not that sad. I need to get a grip here. ///;-) Thanks for taking the time, Andreas. At 04:36 PM 8/14/2002 -0700, you wrote: >Hi > >Everyone is welcomed to write docu but only a few did so. I know to >start with JBoss is difficult but I don't think that people don't welcome >beginners (see the JBoss forum, the new JBoss 3.0 docu etc.) but user >questions are not welcomed on the developer list (that is why it is a >developer list). > >The only important step I expect for a newcomer is to show initiative. >I hate questions like "please help I don't understand this" but I help if >someone is coming with a questions that shows initiative. So first search >on the JBoss forum (maybe the questions is already solved), then check >the docu and finally go to the forum. > > > Another (additional) way would be to provide snappy and easy to read > > introductions to the basic code layout in JBoss. I am a Java Certified > > Programmer, so I know a little about Java, and I have coded many large > > sites, but know little about JBoss. I came here to learn about a year ago > > but left, not feeling welcome. Not crying, just letting you know. I have > > a big interest in JBoss and am a real fan, but do not have time to climb > > uphill to learn with you. Hasta la differences? > >Have fun > >x >Andreas Schaefer >Senior Consultant >JBoss Group, LLC >x > > > > >--- >This sf.net email is sponsored by: Dice - The leading online job board >for high-tech professionals. Search and apply for tech jobs today! >http://seeker.dice.com/seeker.epl?rel_code=31 >___ >Jboss-development mailing list >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development --- This sf.net email is sponsored by: OSDN - Tired of that same old cell phone? Get a new here for FREE! https://www.inphonic.com/r.asp?r=sourceforge1&refcode1=vs3390 ___ Jboss-development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
RE: [JBoss-dev] Recruiting new developers
> sites, but know little about JBoss. I came here to learn > about a year ago > but left, not feeling welcome. Not crying, just letting you > know. I have you *are* crying. Look there are really 3 ways to get seriously into the codebase. 1- Go dig bugs. You can't imagine the number that still come out of the blue saying "bug here, fixed". JBoss is not a magical whole with a magic formula where TADA you know it all. It is a collection of loosely coupled modules and some of the problems are skin deep. Fixing bugs is the simplest way 2- Buy the documentation (development). In fact that doco is really targeted at you guys, you can read all of it to know everything that is going on module by module. 3- Come to a training and get certified. Let's face it the only way you are going to spend a week solid learning about JBoss is if you take a week off and train yourself. That is also how we make our living so really it is the best solution for everyone. FYI I gave 2 passwords RW JUST today, one to a person working on the XA stuff with David (bug fixing and good work) and the other one to a star student of the palma training who had already submitted 3 fixes and showed great understanding (shouldn't say "student" since michael is probaly 40 :). Both are extremelly promising and producing top code. So stop crying, I am totally unimpressed by your "story", just get going and do it, there are many ways to get in. Get in, I hope to see you at the next hosted training. marcf --- This sf.net email is sponsored by: Dice - The leading online job board for high-tech professionals. Search and apply for tech jobs today! http://seeker.dice.com/seeker.epl?rel_code=31 ___ Jboss-development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
Re: [JBoss-dev] Recruiting new developers
Hi Everyone is welcomed to write docu but only a few did so. I know to start with JBoss is difficult but I don't think that people don't welcome beginners (see the JBoss forum, the new JBoss 3.0 docu etc.) but user questions are not welcomed on the developer list (that is why it is a developer list). The only important step I expect for a newcomer is to show initiative. I hate questions like "please help I don't understand this" but I help if someone is coming with a questions that shows initiative. So first search on the JBoss forum (maybe the questions is already solved), then check the docu and finally go to the forum. > Another (additional) way would be to provide snappy and easy to read > introductions to the basic code layout in JBoss. I am a Java Certified > Programmer, so I know a little about Java, and I have coded many large > sites, but know little about JBoss. I came here to learn about a year ago > but left, not feeling welcome. Not crying, just letting you know. I have > a big interest in JBoss and am a real fan, but do not have time to climb > uphill to learn with you. Hasta la differences? Have fun x Andreas Schaefer Senior Consultant JBoss Group, LLC x --- This sf.net email is sponsored by: Dice - The leading online job board for high-tech professionals. Search and apply for tech jobs today! http://seeker.dice.com/seeker.epl?rel_code=31 ___ Jboss-development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
Re: [JBoss-dev] Recruiting new developers
Another (additional) way would be to provide snappy and easy to read introductions to the basic code layout in JBoss. I am a Java Certified Programmer, so I know a little about Java, and I have coded many large sites, but know little about JBoss. I came here to learn about a year ago but left, not feeling welcome. Not crying, just letting you know. I have a big interest in JBoss and am a real fan, but do not have time to climb uphill to learn with you. Hasta la differences? At 02:28 PM 8/14/2002 -0400, you wrote: >the most important thing we can do now is recruit the next generation of >talent in JBoss. New versions (in this case 3.0) have always been the >way to recruit new developers. > >To do so I have put the TODO-DEVELOPMENT forum list high up in the >forums listing. Please use it to post your ideas and things that need >to be done. I know that everyone of the core developers has at least >one idea in head. Please post it to the TODO forum and see if someone >picks it up then chaperone him (her). > > >PLEASE GO AND POST ONE TODO TODAY :) > >marcf > >xx >Marc Fleury, Ph.D. >President, Founder >JBoss Group, LLC >xx > > > >--- >This sf.net email is sponsored by: Dice - The leading online job board >for high-tech professionals. Search and apply for tech jobs today! >http://seeker.dice.com/seeker.epl?rel_code=31 >___ >Jboss-development mailing list >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development --- This sf.net email is sponsored by: Dice - The leading online job board for high-tech professionals. Search and apply for tech jobs today! http://seeker.dice.com/seeker.epl?rel_code=31 ___ Jboss-development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
[JBoss-dev] Recruiting new developers
the most important thing we can do now is recruit the next generation of talent in JBoss. New versions (in this case 3.0) have always been the way to recruit new developers. To do so I have put the TODO-DEVELOPMENT forum list high up in the forums listing. Please use it to post your ideas and things that need to be done. I know that everyone of the core developers has at least one idea in head. Please post it to the TODO forum and see if someone picks it up then chaperone him (her). PLEASE GO AND POST ONE TODO TODAY :) marcf xx Marc Fleury, Ph.D. President, Founder JBoss Group, LLC xx --- This sf.net email is sponsored by: Dice - The leading online job board for high-tech professionals. Search and apply for tech jobs today! http://seeker.dice.com/seeker.epl?rel_code=31 ___ Jboss-development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
