Re: Telemetry in Plasma and Discover

[Luca Beltrame]

In data martedì 12 luglio 2022 16:52:21 CEST, Nate Graham ha scritto:

Hello Nate,

> +Fabian Vogt and Luca Beltrame specifically
> 
> Thanks, that's a relief! Does this looks legit enough for openSUSE to
> stop patching out the KUSerFeedback integration?

In principle I do not have any objections given the thread, but I'd also like 
input from Christophe (added to CC).  

As an aside I see that similar messages were sent out for PIM and other 
applications. That might be enough to re-enable things everywhere.

-- 
Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team
GPG key ID: A29D259B

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Re: FSF leadership

[Luca Beltrame]

Il giorno Wed, 18 Sep 2019 19:59:09 -0700
Valorie Zimmerman
 ha scritto:

> Accordingly, I would like us (the KDE Community) to advise them to
> diversify their Board, as RedHat has done here:

At this point, it is too late, IMO. Additionally, KDE is in
no position to tell the FSF what to do. Still IMO, it would be seen as
beating the dead horse.


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Re: Invent/gitlab, issues and bugzilla

[Luca Beltrame]

Il giorno Thu, 4 Jul 2019 13:31:49 +0200
Wolthera  ha
scritto:

> community to handle, so it is probably more efficient to wait for
> bugzilla 6 in any case.

Speaking of that: does anyone know if there is a roadmap for Bugzilla
6? I'd say the comparison should be done with that as well once it's
out.


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Re: Invent/gitlab, issues and bugzilla

[Luca Beltrame]

Il giorno Thu, 4 Jul 2019 15:19:15 +0530
Bhushan Shah  ha scritto:

> - No they can't because it makes life of other developer harder
> - No they can't because it makes life of other user harder

- No they can't because it creates inconsistencies and makes some
  user-facing tools like drkonqi useless with people that don't use
  Bugzilla.
- No they can't because then it's going to get hard for both users
  *and* downstreams to find *where* they report their issues given that
  project X may use Bugzilla and Y might use GitLab

> If developer/maintainer collectively thinks that using gitlab as bug
> tracker makes their life easier instead of depending on bugzilla I

And what about making existing tools useless? No, the fact that project
X doesn't use them is not an excuse. It may be valid *at this point in
time* only.

> specific sub-community, that decision doesn't affect krita, okular or
> other KDE applications.

It does, see above why. As a downstream I don't want to chase the
projects to see which platform they use for reporting bugs. And yes, I
have direct experience professionally with another, unrelated FOSS
project (Bioconductor) which doesn't have a "central" bug reporting
infrastructure and leaves to the maintainers how to get their reports:
it's an absolute hell to wade through.

I don't want to see this in KDE.

> In general, I respect everyone's personal opinion that bugzilla at
> moment superior to the gitlab issues, but at same time I also want to
> respect other developers opinion/choices as long as they abide by the

I see nothing that allows an informed decision. Why is not Bugzilla
acceptable? Why is GL better? No, familiarity and onboarding reasons
are not enough. Please at least try to outline first the advantages and
disadvantages of both.



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Re: Testbed Discourse Server For Trial discuss.kde.org.uk

[Luca Beltrame]

Il giorno Wed, 19 Jun 2019 16:44:19 +0100
Jonathan Riddell  ha
scritto:

> Eventually I would like to see this replace forum.kde.org and allow
> projects to move their mailing lists over to it as they wish.

You may want to test somewhere if you can import existing threads from
f.k.o. Last time this was mentioned I think someone mentioned an
importer of some kind.


-- 
Luca Beltrame
GPG key ID: A29D259B


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Re: Anonymous contributions

[Luca Beltrame]

Il giorno Thu, 11 Apr 2019 22:50:57 +0200
Boudewijn Rempt  ha
scritto:

> historical baggage, but anyway). I do agree with you, and I would
> like us to start acccepting pseudonymous contributions officially. 

As a packager who had to deal with many license inconsistencies (not
due to bad behavior, but due to large, historical codebases): how do
you plan on dealing with changing / switching, etc. licenses with
"pseudonymous" contributions (yes, even with mail addresses it can be
a problem, but even more if you don't even know who you're addressing,
IMO)?

I agree with others in the thread: this needs input from a lawyer.


-- 
Luca Beltrame
GPG key ID: A29D259B


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Re: KDE now has its own Matrix infrastructure

[Luca Beltrame]

Il giorno Sun, 17 Mar 2019 23:25:01 +0100
Albert Astals Cid  ha scritto:

> Matrix is right now more than 2 hours behind for #kde-devel making it
> totally useless.

I don't see this big of a delay in large traffic channels like #plasma. The 
worst
I've seen is a handful of seconds in both directions (but I didn't time
it). 

To be fair, I run my own server which is federated with whatever KDE
uses, so I'm not sure if that is why.

Either way, not "totally useless".

-- 
Luca Beltrame
GPG key ID: A29D259B


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Re: Discourse

[Luca Beltrame]

Il giorno Tue, 4 Dec 2018 12:48:48 +0100
Harald Sitter  ha scritto:

> OTOH I also don't understand how the current spam protection works. Do
> we maintain a list of blacklisted words? Because from what I
> understand discourse has that built in. Along with blocking by IP.

Yeah, it works something like that. I don't know if it is connected to
stopforumspam (nor if stopforumspam actually exists anymore), but it
does "flag" messages on words, number of posts, etc. Moderators then
can inspect the flagged messages.

The current nice thing (but that's to workaround a huge deficiency of
the UI in phpBB - perhaps it has changed in recent versions) is that it
also offers a one-click ban that bans the user and wipes all the posts
by the same user in one fell swoop.


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Re: Discourse

[Luca Beltrame]

Il giorno Tue, 4 Dec 2018 11:58:27 +0100
Harald Sitter  ha scritto:

> > Is it  Akismet in name, or uses the service?  
> I am not sure what that means I am afraid.

Akismet is a (non-Free) antispam service used originally by
Wordpress.com, optionally self-hosted WP, but now used also by other
software. It looks, from the name, that this plugin interrogates
Akismet. IIRC only "personal" usage used to be free (but I haven't been
checking in years, so this might be all wrong).


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Re: Discourse

[Luca Beltrame]

Il giorno Thu, 29 Nov 2018 11:32:12 +0100
Harald Sitter  ha scritto:

> with the current forums? Do we have the original evaluation of how we
> ended up with phpbb somewhere?

Originally it was MyBB[1] (just open sourced), then we started hitting
some limitations there, and it was decided to move to phpBB[2].

The migration plan was done semi-informally on IRC: there used to be a
comprehensive list of changes over MyBB, but when writing the Dot story
it came out a little too confrontational, so we (me, Ingo, Ben, and
Sayak at the time) decided to tone it down.

> Which customizations are there, what do they do, where is their code
> and who maintains them currently?

websites/forum.kde.org on git. No one maintains them at all at the
moment. 

Some inclusions there are Brainstorm and the gallery modification used
by Krita.

In addition, there is the "Anti Spam" mod which is used, among other
things, to one click ban spammers.

> In fact, I am also not sure why everyone seems to consider importing
> 10 year old forum posts a given requirement here. We migrated away

Boud has already given an example. 

> Can you describe these workflows a bit?
> There is this https://www.discourse.org/plugins/akismet.html not sure

Is it  Akismet in name, or uses the service?

> it's sufficient though. One could always opt to write custom plugins

The idea would be, if possible, to prevent the mistake made in the past
and use custom stuff only if absolutely necessary (that's what got us
in the current mess in the first place).

[1] https://www.kde.org/announcements/forum.php
[2]
https://dot.kde.org/2009/06/29/new-look-and-features-kde-community-forums


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Re: Discourse

[Luca Beltrame]

Il giorno Mon, 26 Nov 2018 10:23:42 +0200
Ilmari Lauhakangas
 ha scritto:

> step to recruit someone to upgrade the existing forum to the latest
> version of phpBB (which has evolved during all this time after all)?

The main pain problem because it's not a "one click" update is mainly
because the forum has quite a bit of custom code:

- So called "mods" that would need to get replaced (older phpBB mods
  replaced files directly, but now there's a plugin structure)
- A whole swath of in house code, like Brainstorm etc. (in hindsight,
  doing that much extra stuff on top wasn't the best idea, but again
  hindsight is 20/20). 
- The theme (which would need an overhaul anyway)

So upgrading is the "easy" step. Upgrading without too much breakage is
far harder.

> The main problem in any case will be getting enough engagement. I
> don't think I have ever received a reply from a KDE developer in the
> current forums.

In the past, it happened more than once. Aside very vibrant forums like
Krita's, I've personally poked people to answer in the forums (and they
did).

-- 
Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team
GPG key ID: A29D259B


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Re: Discourse

[Luca Beltrame]

Il giorno Tue, 27 Nov 2018 14:25:06 -0200
Lays Rodrigues  ha scritto:

> As a ~new person~ on KDE, 3 years only, we need to move to a modern
> web. At least in my point of view, I really think that using old

Then someone needs to do it: as you are well aware, that's how most of
the stuff in KDE is born. And I do not only mean the actual setup +
deployment, but have someone willing to "commit" to it (quotes because
even the forum was relatively low maintenance when we still had people
working on it - if it's continuous, the burden is not so heavy).

> community forward. If we have old stuff that is hard to maintain, and
> it is outdated, we should move forward.

Replacing one solution (unmaintained) with another than then it's
forgotten because "it works" would not be an improvement. IOW, it would
make little sense to update to $new_platform if then there's no one
maintaining it. 

-- 
Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team
GPG key ID: A29D259B


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Re: Discourse

[Luca Beltrame]

Il giorno Sun, 25 Nov 2018 21:58:48 -0200
Lays Rodrigues  ha scritto:

> So, is it possible to add Discourse for KDE?

Given the burden on Sysadmin already, there needs to be someone
willing to shoulder this work (and go past their objections, like the
use of Postgres), at least for evaluation work.

Saying "is it possible" means it'll take a long time, or possibly never
occur. Saying "I'll do it" and following up (note: generic "I", not
addressing you in particular) has a higher chance.

-- 
Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team
GPG key ID: A29D259B


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Re: Discourse

[Luca Beltrame]

Il giorno Tue, 30 Oct 2018 08:38:28 +0100
Boudewijn Rempt  ha
scritto:

> As for the forum, it would be good to replace that with something
> more modern. We get a lot of traffic on the forums, People don't

I don't want to sound overly negative, but that's a common feeling also
for those who handle(d) the forums. The problems are:

1. Keeping the old posts
2. Ensuring the alternative (or the upgraded variant, e.g. to the
latest phpBB) is maintained

Upgrades have been considered but there's quite a lot of custom code
there and no one in the staff actually can handle PHP that well. Also
(like I said elsewhere) someone needs to have both time and motivation
for it.


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Re: Discourse

[Luca Beltrame]

Il giorno Mon, 29 Oct 2018 22:27:37 +
Jonathan Riddell  ha
scritto:

> Seems like a perfectly sensible and modern way to deploy.  You can log
> into the running container fine and twiddle as needed.

Only if you know what's inside. I would not trust a "docker pull"
without knowing how the image is made. 

> Shrug, personal taste.

But Sysadmin needs to maintain it given their resources, so it's not
just "personal taste".

> I'm told the app works fine web view or no, doesn't seem a reason to
> dislike an app.

You don't need the app, period. A web browser on a mobile suffices.

> It certainly notifies by e-mail, I've not yet worked out how it treats
> incoming e-mail.

I meant a reply-by-mail interface, I know about the notifications.

> Of course it would need someone to do the work, but it would mean
> replacing two systems with one.

Color me pessimistic. This hasn't happened with the forums, which still
run an old and dated phpBBB, and historically the community hasn't been
great at even attracting people doing web. 


-- 
Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team
GPG key ID: A29D259B


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Re: Twitter access

[Luca Beltrame]

Il giorno Wed, 18 Jul 2018 14:16:39 +0100
Jonathan Riddell  ha
scritto:

> I'll stop doing KDE promo again then.  KDE shouldn't have unnamed
> higher powers who block community contributions.

There are no "unnamed powers" and no one is blocking anything, as far
as I can see.


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Re: Let's get rid of UNCONFIRMED/CONFIRMED

[Luca Beltrame]

Il giorno Tue, 27 Feb 2018 14:58:22 +0100
Boudewijn Rempt  ha
scritto:

> * A bug nobody has looked at yet

How would NEW not fit the bill? (As opposed to UNCONFIRMED)

> * A bug someone other than the reporter has looked at, but which was
> not reproducible

Do you mean a single status that covers  WORKSFORME / NOTABUG /
INVALID? 

> * A bug someone other than the reporter has been able to reproduce.

This is probably the only possibly use case for CONFIRMED, but I'm not
too keen on the wording (see my other messages on why).

There are other bits that are important for triaging, but those don't
fit the main topic of this thread.


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Re: Let's get rid of UNCONFIRMED/CONFIRMED

[Luca Beltrame]

Il giorno Tue, 27 Feb 2018 13:43:17 +0100
Boudewijn Rempt  ha
scritto:

> KDE projects. I haven't seen many signs of users being confused by
> UNCONFIRMED vs CONFIRMED, though.

At least in certain forums (not necessarily the KDE forums, this
includes media like reddit), "UNCONFIRMED" is often seen as "no one
cares about it".

(This doesn't change the necessity of the triage: but it is a negative
perception)


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Re: Let's get rid of UNCONFIRMED/CONFIRMED

[Luca Beltrame]

Il giorno Tue, 27 Feb 2018 11:32:10 +0100
Elvis Angelaccio  ha
scritto:

> The UNCONFIRMED/CONFIRMED thing has little meaning, is confusing for
> users and for new triagers and we know that many developers never set

+1 On setting it to NEW. That's what we have in openSUSE and has a much
better meaning than UNCONFIRMED.


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Re: Goal: Making KDE software the #1 choice for science and academia

[Luca Beltrame]

Il giorno Wed, 30 Aug 2017 11:43:42 +0200
Thomas Pfeiffer  ha
scritto:

> And I think there are enough benefits to establishing ourselves in
> all fields of research to make it worthwhile.

In fact I think it would be worthwhile to present such options. I've
seen KDE software used in places I did not expect (e.g. a research
institute in agrobiology I visited a few years ago). 

That said, I think it would be also a good idea to see "what makes our
software palatable for R" (which is potential reason 2 in your Phab
task). At least in my field (bioinformatics) most do not even know it
exists.


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Re: Goal: Making KDE software the #1 choice for science and academia

[Luca Beltrame]

Il giorno Wed, 30 Aug 2017 01:34:37 +0200
Thomas Pfeiffer <thomas.pfeif...@kde.org> ha
scritto:

> I think that here is a lot of yet-untapped potential for the usage of
> KDE products in the research and academic sector, and we should fix

Interesting. I've been using (and having colleague using ;)KDE software
for a while in a small research no profit. A question arises: is this
aimed at technical fields like CS and the like, or all research in
general? 
Depending on the field, things may be slightly different wrt
requirements.

-- 
Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team
GPG key ID: A29D259B


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Re: radical proposal: move IRC to Rocket.Chat

[Luca Beltrame]

Il giorno Tue, 08 Aug 2017 18:16:17 +0200
Luigi Toscano <luigi.tosc...@tiscali.it>
ha scritto:

> So -1 for moving to Rocket.Chat.

-1 as well. As Luigi said, matrix.org is a better replacement because
the bridge is already up there. Also, it is federated, and FOSS.

-- 
Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team
KDE Science supporter
GPG key ID: 6E1A4E79

Re: KDE GPG Keyserver

[Luca Beltrame]

Il giorno Mon, 24 Jul 2017 12:51:42 +0200
Boudhayan Gupta <bgu...@kde.org> ha scritto:

> You can of course add a new line to ~/.gnupg/dirmngr.conf to add this
> keyserver to your list of keyservers.

Is this reachable also on port 80? My workplace blocks hkp ports.

-- 
Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team
KDE Science supporter
GPG key ID: 6E1A4E79

Re: Applications Lifecycle Policy

[Luca Beltrame]

Il giorno Thu, 06 Jul 2017 07:44:49 +0200
Martin Gräßlin  ha scritto:

> could we get a transcript of the discussion on IRC?

It was on the Italian KDE dev channel, so even if I had a
transcript, it would be hardly useful. ;) It was just a couple of
points, saying that we need more automated checks, and that
unfortunately this isn't sexy so it's still a lacking area.


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Re: Applications Lifecycle Policy

[Luca Beltrame]

Il giorno Thu, 06 Jul 2017 07:07:06 +0200
Martin Flöser <mgraess...@kde.org> ha scritto:

> I understand your point: you don't want that the quality assurance
> ends up on the shoulders of the distros. And I agree.

See my other response (with changed subject) in the thread. The
discussion we had on IRC pointed out that perhaps, instead of less
checks, we would want more automated checks, like you mention further
down in this reply.

(I cut this reply down to move the discussion to the other one, since
this is only tangential to lifecycle policy).

-- 
Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team
GPG key ID: A29D259B


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Re: Applications Lifecycle Policy

[Luca Beltrame]

Il giorno Wed, 5 Jul 2017 22:54:50 +0200 (CEST)
Boudewijn Rempt <b...@valdyas.org> ha
scritto:

> I suck at code review, personally... I can only see what's wrong with
> code once I get a bug report and have to fix the code.

If someone tries to ship you code that does not compile, you'll notice
that, though. ;) I meant at least for the process to catch the most
obvious errors:

1. Compile errors (see the kio-stash review thread)
2. Failing tests (again see that thread)
3. Obvious licensing issues (makes the life of a downstream easier) 
4. Improper i18n/l10n setup

-- 
Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team
GPG key ID: A29D259B


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Release code review and quality (was Re: Applications Lifecycle Policy)

[Luca Beltrame]

Il giorno Wed, 05 Jul 2017 22:33:13 +0200
Christian Mollekopf <chrig...@fastmail.fm>
ha scritto:

> Anyways, in general it is completely in my spirit; little upfront
> requirements and then judge the quality
> of what falls out of it.

Honest question: onto whom would the burden fall? As a contributor
towards integration I wouldn't want that to fall (solely) on my
shoulders. 

I mean, we're all humans and things slip through the cracks all the
time, even with review. Removing even a light (emphasis on *light*)
scrutiny would make things worse.

I would argue, as proposed by Luigi on IRC just now, that we should
have perhaps less *human* checks but more *automated* checks. This is
however orthogonal to the discussion on lifecycle.


-- 
Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team
GPG key ID: A29D259B


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Re: Applications Lifecycle Policy

[Luca Beltrame]

Il giorno Wed, 05 Jul 2017 21:37:09 +0200
Martin Flöser <mgraess...@kde.org> ha scritto:

> To me the review process always felt weird and also like a relict
> from other times. I contributed to overall KDE something like 100 k

While projects with strong stewardship like KWin, Plasma or Krita
(*not* implying there aren't others: I'm mentioning the ones
that come to mind) ensure a continued review and code quality, how
would you ensure that, without review periods (or anything that can
subsitute them, if anything better) distributions and integrators don't
get code dumps of dubious quality?

I see this as a concrete risk.

-- 
Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team
GPG key ID: A29D259B


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Re: Applications Lifecycle Policy

[Luca Beltrame]

Il giorno Tue, 04 Jul 2017 23:04:08 +0200
Christian Mollekopf 
ha scritto:

> * it should be ok to release from playground for years, or even
> potentially forever.

That would impact translations, and IMO it can be easily abused as a
"get out of jail free" card that avoids kdereview. 
While I understand the motivations behind it, I don't think it's
feasible. I can however understand going from playground for a
"while".

> should be possible to release from extragear forever. Perhaps some
> project is just not interested in translations for instance...)

From extragear it's already the case. It simply means "project has its
own schedule not tied to Plasma, Applications, or Frameworks". 

> * Abolishing the extragear/applications differentiation at this level
> would make more sense to me (extragear does have a second class feel

That would cause a bit of issue wrt releases, since:

a. extragear go on their own releases (see Krita for a big example of
this)
b. Applications releases have predictable, time-based releases which
not all projects would like to subject to

Re: latest draft for mission (and strategy)

[Luca Beltrame]

Il giorno Mon, 29 May 2017 21:17:29 +0200
Lydia Pintscher <ly...@kde.org> ha scritto:

> I'd like to invite you all to take a look at the current draft and
> provide your constructive feedback so we can use this as the basis for
> our work for the next years.

As far as I can see, is

mentors people to contribute to Free and Open-Source software

sufficient to tell that also non-coders can participate in KDE?

-- 
Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team
GPG key ID: A29D259B


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Extent of KDE helping downstreams (was Re: Kubuntu and other KDE distribution's use of KDE infrastructure)

[Luca Beltrame]

Il giorno Sat, 14 Jan 2017 14:20:15 +0100
Adriaan de Groot <gr...@kde.org> ha scritto:

[renamed the discussion so that it drifts away from Valorie's request
onto something else, and doesn't distract from her question]

> I'm having a terrible time understanding the nature of the line in
> the sand you'd like to draw. What does the Venn diagram look like to

The line would be: distros (*any* distro) on the side, KDE on the
other. The reasoning is non technical, as I said, mainly because even
if distros are Free Software, their goals and objectives may not always
fit within KDE.

On the other hand (I *need* to point this out), some distros have
definite issues with their infrastructure for handling KDE software
(Fedora and Kubuntu, for different reasons). 

> you? Frankly I'd rather not have FreeBSD be "the special case" if it
> comes to that.

Luigi in the follow up mail explained better what I meant. 

> Then there's KDE Argon, Xenon and others .. different base distro's,

Argon and Krypton are not KDE projects, they're openSUSE community
things, they do not use KDE infrastructure at all (except downloading
stuff from KDE git). 

> efforts -- then I still don't see how that translates to "KDE doesn't
> help downstream in any way", which is kind of how I interpret your

"Help" perhaps is a bit too vague. I'm a downstream (openSUSE) as well
as an upstream: I wear both hats. I'm *all* for KDE helping
downstreams, in fact I think that with things like distribution
outreach and other people actively seeking distro input KDE is helping
a lot more than before. 

What I object to is having downstreams use KDE infrastructure (including
workboards and Phab) for distro-specific things (even if limited to KDE
packaging). Personally I try to keep things entirely separate.

That said, if the majority of the community wants to do that anyway,
it's not like I'll commit suicide tomorrow. ;) 

-- 
Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team
GPG key ID: A29D259B


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Re: Kubuntu and other KDE distribution's use of KDE infrastructure

[Luca Beltrame]

Il giorno Thu, 12 Jan 2017 23:09:16 +0100
Albert Astals Cid <aa...@kde.org> ha scritto:

> This takes 1 minute to create and adds 0.0003% of work to our
> servers, let's just add it and stop a conversation that is making us
> spend lots of human- hours discussing it.

I thought there were no problems from a technical perspective. The
discussion is all about the non technical aspects as far as I see it.

-- 
Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team
KDE Science supporter
GPG key ID: 6E1A4E79

Re: Kubuntu and other KDE distribution's use of KDE infrastructure

[Luca Beltrame]

Il giorno Thu, 12 Jan 2017 15:27:21 +0100
Adriaan de Groot  ha scritto:

> Luca, what exactly are you "Nay"-ing? The former or the latter? If
> the latter, do you also object to
> https://phabricator.kde.org/project/view/199/ ?

The latter. For KDE-FreeBSD, I'd argue it's special-cased as AFAICS (but
you're the expert here, feel free to point out if I'm wrong) it
originated within KDE and not from outside. 


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Re: Kubuntu and other KDE distribution's use of KDE infrastructure

[Luca Beltrame]

Il giorno Thu, 12 Jan 2017 11:49:44 +0100
Helio Chissini de Castro  ha
scritto:

> a distribuition that has a default Gnome desktop, and all efforts on
> main distribution and the only official build is Gnome based.

The problem is inherently political, I see. And I guess the request
from Kubuntu also stems from distro "politics". My issue is where the
line is drawn to allow such things.

As other members here are in favor, I won't speak more on the matter and
let things go.

> itself, is have a continuos build on Fedora platform as well "the
> reference Neon" that garantee the results of a KDE software will be

Neon is not a reference for KDE software, it is made by KDE but AFAICR
it has no such ambitions.


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Re: Kubuntu and other KDE distribution's use of KDE infrastructure

[Luca Beltrame]

Il giorno Sun, 08 Jan 2017 10:10:55 +
Helio Chissini de Castro
 ha scritto:

> I requested similar thing for doing Fedora similar things and simply
> the

Interesting. Were there any motivations for this?

(Notice that my objections are also valid for any distro, so I don't
think that even the KDE Fedora bits should use KDE infrastructure).


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Re: Kubuntu and other KDE distribution's use of KDE infrastructure

[Luca Beltrame]

Il giorno Sun, 8 Jan 2017 00:02:06 -0800
Valorie Zimmerman
<valorie.zimmer...@gmail.com> ha scritto:

> However, the sysadmins would like the KDE community support for this,
> since it could be seen as a "slippery slope." In addition, Ben

With both my KDE and distro person hats, -1 to the idea. I think that
distribution and KDE infrastructure should be kept separate, exactly
because the goals of distros may not always align with KDE goals, even
if there's an amount of overlap in people and ideas.

> the Manifesto. We do already host the KDE Packagers list [2], and
> Distributions list [3] which supports the Distribution Outreach
> Program [4].

I think these (packagers and distro outreach) are Good Enough for the
moment.

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Re: Test your applications on Wayland

[Luca Beltrame]

Il giorno Tue, 11 Oct 2016 14:14:45 +0200
Martin Graesslin <mgraess...@kde.org> ha scritto:

> Such isos have the latest code and also hand-picked patches for
> QtWayland.

Can we have a list of these hand picked patches? Other distributions
may be interested in applying them, or at least knowing what problems
they fix.


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Re: [kde-community] possible foss alternative to telegram/slack

[Luca Beltrame]

Il giorno Tue, 17 May 2016 20:18:37 +0200
Thomas Pfeiffer <thomas.pfeif...@kde.org> ha
scritto:

> Good point! I think we should use it internally extensively before
> switching any public communication over to it.

More food for thought: another alternative may be Matrix[1] a FOSS,
federated service a la Jabber. Unfortunately it lacks "proper" desktop
clients, but there are a number of web and mobile clients around[2].

However, it looks a little more complicated to set up.

[1] https://matrix.org/
[2] https://matrix.org/docs/projects/try-matrix-now.html

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Re: [kde-community] Telegram Relay Service

[Luca Beltrame]

Il giorno Fri, 6 May 2016 10:18:57 -0300
Nicolás Alvarez
 ha scritto:

> matter how bad the encryption is, it's more secure than IRC. Plus, KDE
> people are using Telegram whether it's bridged to IRC or not.

It's fine (who am I to demand what people want to use?), as long as it
doesn't become a "required" medium.


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Re: [kde-community] [Kde-pim] A new home for Mozilla Thunderbird at KDE?

[Luca Beltrame]

Il giorno Wed, 27 Apr 2016 21:42:12 +0900
Eike Hein  ha scritto:

> Make no mistake, Thunderbird is a dead project. It's built on a
> toolkit that's EOL, and hardly has enough of a development community

My thoughts exactly, and while this makes me unhappy (because it has a
large following and is filling important niches in this "browser only"
world), I think Mozilla is just pulling an Oracle OpenOffice here and
allow it to die without causing too much backlash.


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Re: [kde-community] RFC: Distribution outreach program

[Luca Beltrame]

Il Wed, 03 Feb 2016 11:40:58 +0100, Martin Graesslin ha scritto:


> to use a specific technology. It's totally fine if we go ahead and say
> our technology stack includes systemd, networkmanager and apparmor. If
> your distro cannot do that it's not providing the best expected
> experience. In reality we don't have the manpower to test multiple

I'm answering you but this is a point more general, which I overlooked 
before: don't forget that distributions ship other software!

And said software has to work and coexist with KDE software. So as a 
distribution, often we have to take compromises to ensure everything works 
as intended.

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Re: [kde-community] RFC: Distribution outreach program

[Luca Beltrame]

Il Wed, 03 Feb 2016 15:18:23 +0100, Jaroslaw Staniek ha scritto:

> ​Yep, these feelings float within the KDE fans community. That's why I
> sometimes can't stop people from treating initiatives like Neon as "the"
> KDE distro ​

And I hope too many people don't get the wrong idea, or yes, we'll be 
shooting down people that are actually helping *us* inside distros.

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Re: [kde-community] RFC: Distribution outreach program

[Luca Beltrame]

Il Wed, 03 Feb 2016 14:57:02 +0100, Martin Graesslin ha scritto:

> Yes I know, that's the obvious reply you get from distros. And I call
> BULLSHIT to that. If a distribution ships with a broken bluetooth setup,

Let me get the reverse in: we had to jump through several hoops at 
openSUSE because GNOME needed GStreamer 1.0 and Phonon only supported 0.10 
at the time. 

We worked this out, but as you can see is a problem that affects *all* 
software, not just ours. And especially in "egalitarian" distros, where 
all desktops and software have the same dignity, this is bound to happen.

> a reason to ship them all broken? If they need different conflicting
> technologies one can conflict in the packages.

Where we can do something, we can. But don't forget that like KDE, distros 
are sets of people. e.g., you may all know everything about KWin, but not 
about Krita, I know what's going on in the KDE side of openSUSE, but not 
the minutiae of the GNOME team. And for larger distros like Debian, this 
is even more relevant.

There are places where ideas are discussed, and solution proposed. But 
don't think everyone knows about everything. So issues like these will 
always occur.

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Re: [kde-community] RFC: Distribution outreach program

[Luca Beltrame]

Il Wed, 03 Feb 2016 15:25:36 +0100, Martin Graesslin ha scritto:

> migration need to be handled better with more collaboration. E.g. GNOME
> notifying distros early about their wish to upgrade, those notifying
> other projects about the requirement to upgrade.

This happened: the GNOME team @ openSUSE asked us about our plans w/
GStreamer, so we worked out a plan. I hope this wasn't meant as a "bad" 
example, this is the first one that came into mind.

I'll give you another: KAuth (KF5) was blocked for *ages* in openSUSE 
Tumbleweed because of a security issue (a race condition) and there was no 
real maintainer upstream to answer the concerns of the security team. Once 
I found out, I poked a lot of people until Martin Sandsmark (another 
Martin ;) was able to fix it and even get a CVE out of it. 

This is another "policy" that can affect negatively the time software 
takes to arrive to end users, but as you can see in this case, the issue 
wasn't just "it's our $POLICY". 

Now, the plan is to find either a common ground or a compromise that at 
least workarounds these issues. I hope I don't sound like I'm pointing 
fingers here, because that's not my intention.

> One could also say that this results into "all DEs are crappy". And then
> the egalitarian distro will suffer compared to those which are not.

I can't speak for the others, but the distro I contribute to strives for 
the best regardless of the desktop.  ;)

> Like you contact the KDE team about a problem and it goes nowhere
> because it's not their area of expertise.

That's just a side effect of the large FOSS communities, I think. Nothing 
that can't be fixed, of course.

Having "contact people" for the distros that package KDE software would be 
a good starting point.

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Re: [kde-community] RFC: Distribution outreach program

[Luca Beltrame]

Il Sat, 30 Jan 2016 14:39:11 +0100, Thomas Pfeiffer ha scritto:

> The intention is not to blame any distribution for anything. The goal is
> to give users a way to identify distributions which fulfill the
> requirements for our software to run optimally.

I understood that, but my fear is that the message will be misinterpreted, 
although I do not assume bad faith on any part.

> can't expect KDE software to work perfectly on that distribution, and
> they should not blame us for it.

It happens also the other way: there's quite a number of bugs filed at the 
distributions' trackers that are upstream problem. Again, this is not an 
accusation or "you too!" mention, just to say that this problem is IMO, 
inevitable, and at best it can be minimized (that's why I think the 
outreach idea is important).

> There should be a communication channel for distributions to notify us
> "Hey, we know we currently don't meet the dependency requirements

The other problem is that distro people are for the major part all 
volounteers, so I guess that between packaging and writing mails, they 
prefer packaging. ;) But I guess the kde-distro-packagers ML could be used 
for this, somehow?

> (unless it's about a critical security vulnerability, but distributions
> have special processes to get those fixed asap anyway, don't they?)

Yes, they do. Sometimes a prompt release is not warranted to watch out for 
regressions, and distros may hop to .x versions (and that is why, I think, 
Plasma people adopted a staggered minor release model).

> Would a "Runs KDE software optimally" kind of badge not be perceived as
> an endorsement?

Personally not, but I'd like other people from distributions to chime in.

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Re: [kde-community] Forum improvements

[Luca Beltrame]

Il Mon, 28 Sep 2015 23:57:49 +0200, Jaroslaw Staniek ha scritto:

> I think more actively asking for supporting this part of the
> infrastructure make sense. People are using it after all and benefiting

IMO, first we need a better retention rate. KDE unfortunately was never 
good at keeping poeple working on web stuff.

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Re: [kde-community] Forum improvements

[Luca Beltrame]

Il Mon, 28 Sep 2015 15:48:02 +0200, Jaroslaw Staniek ha scritto:

Hello Jaroslaw,

> towards two things. Posting here so perhaps people accustomed with web
> services read this. Excuse me if this is already on someone's desk.

As far as I know, no one is working on the forum code. Some of your 
suggestions make sense, but I can't really discuss them here because we 
have a much larger obstacle ahead first: the upgrade to phpBB 3.1.

Despite being a "minor" version, phpBB 3.1 is nothing like phpBB 3.0. In 
fact, I don't think, to my limited understanding, very close code wise. 
An upgrade to the forum is hard because we have a lot of modifications:

- Brainstorm (not sure how many use that nowadays, but it's there)
- Mod tools (quick ban for spammers)
- Search
- The theme itself
- ... 

Currently the staff has no time to even think about this upgrade, which 
will become necessary sooner or later. And if anyone wonders about a GSoC, 
I don't think it qualifies as GSoC material, and unfortunately even if it 
did, I'd have no time for mentoring. 

We need someone from the community, preferably *more* than one person as 
it's a large task, with good PHP knowledge, which could help us.

Sorry for hijacking your thread.


> So what I do when I expect answer to an important topic is: navigating
> (nightmare on mobile device) to the topic and click via subsequent pages
> to find the answer

I'm not sure if they changed in 3.1 compared to 3.0, as I didn't look 
closely enough.

> able to fix it (in the style sheets?) for most cases or by googling
> "phpBB-Mobile".

We need someone to help us with the theming, but doing it for phpbb 3.0 is 
IMO a wasted effort.

> Would it be possible to have a filter (ON or OFF by default?) e.g. in

I'm not sure it is possible (again, unsure about phpBB 3.1).

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Re: [kde-community] Forums downtime for reorganization

[Luca Beltrame]

Il Sat, 26 Sep 2015 09:16:33 +0200, Boudewijn Rempt ha scritto:

 
> Will the links be stable? I.e., will my links to e.g.
> https://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=139=128347=342214#p342214
> still work?

Unless we *create* or *destroy* forums, the forum and topic IDs should 
stay the same. This is more like how they're organized in the hierarchy 
(which, as far as I understand from phpBB, is separate from the IDs used 
internally for the forums).

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Re: [kde-community] Forums downtime for reorganization

[Luca Beltrame]

Il Sat, 26 Sep 2015 10:01:51 +0200, Boudewijn Rempt ha scritto:

> Okay, that's great :-)

That said, we'll make sure this is so, better to rely on facts than on 
assumptions. ;)

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Re: [kde-community] Official KDE mirror on github

[Luca Beltrame]

Il Fri, 18 Sep 2015 22:14:04 +0200, Martin Graesslin ha scritto:

> So I join Sune, Eike and Marco: "Free software needs free tools, no
> proprietary pull requests for KDE development!"

I'm not such a big contributor, but I agree with the above people. We 
already have a big issue with "open" desktop, I really DON'T want to push 
more proprietary platforms.

The day KDE does this is the day I stop contributing. Entirely.

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Re: [kde-community] stackexange site for krita

[Luca Beltrame]

Boudewijn Rempt wrote:

Hello Boudewijn,

first of all thanks for replying.

 model. The forum encourages discussion and sharing work, while here we
 want to have a question per topic, answers, and a kind of game system

Do you think that such a way would be better suited for Krita? I ask because 
at least in the forums I man (not Krita, you guys are too good at it 
yourselves ;) I see (still occasionally though) other users stepping in and 
giving advice (this is most evident in the Plasma 5 forum). 

OK, that's not the level of involvement I'd like to see, but it's a start.

 where answers can be upvoted or downvoted and marked as correct. And then
 the site must be easily searchable.

This last sentence warrants some additional questions: what are issues 
w/search?

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Re: [kde-community] stackexange site for krita

[Luca Beltrame]

Dmitry Kazakov wrote:

 I asked for a kind of knowledge base, where I (developer) could search
 for popular answers really quickly and copy/paste the link into IRC/social
 networks to help people with their (really trivial and common) problems.

A question: what does UserBase lack to be properly used as knowledge base?

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Re: [kde-community] stackexange site for krita

[Luca Beltrame]

Boudewijn Rempt wrote:

 Krita developers) to give user support. I started this topic because of a
 demand from our userbase for a question-and-answer website where they
 would do user-support _themselves_.

Pardon my honest ignorance again (this is not rhetorical, I really am 
ignorant on the topic), but in this case why are the forums unsuited?

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Re: [kde-community] stackexange site for krita

[Luca Beltrame]

Laszlo Papp wrote:

 I would personally much prefer integrating this into the KDE
 infrastructure rather than KDE going to Stack Exchange:

Disclaimer: I may be biased since I help running the forums. If it were to 
me, I'd give -1 to SE. Simply put, KDE should not (if possible) rely on non-
Free solutions for these kind of things. 

This even more so because there are alternatives, and because I'm aware 
myself (although just an occasional user of said service) of the issues 
surrounding Stack Exchange.

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