KR> Ethanol
Turbochargers and/or Superchargers love the way the input temps drop on ethanol. Granted the milage is only 1/4 mile at a time. Most dedicated drag cars that run very high boost shy away from gasoline as you dont need to cool inlet temps artificially with water injection in the air Bill Jacobs -- Original message--From: Mike Stirewalt via KRnet Date: Mon, Jun 6, 2016 2:55 PMTo: krnet at list.krnet.org;Cc: laser147 at juno.com;Subject:KR> EthanolI had an old Cadillac with a computer display that would read out myreal-time fuel consumption. I imagine most cars have such things thesedays, althoiugh the Oldsmobile that I replaced my beloved Cadillac withdoesn't. Whenever I would drive cross country and got into the mid-westwhere ethanol is sold, my fuel mileage would always go down. I'm impressed by the statement "The fastest cars in the country use it."so obviously I'm suffering form a misconception. I inherently dislikedit because it decreased my fuel mileage and because government welfare toall the farmers who grow corn for ethanol annoyes me too. Plus, I'venever trusted it in my KR. If I do ever use auto fuel in the KR(GP-2180) I always use Chevron Supreme, which is what I always use in myother vehicles. Calling Chevron headquarters in San Francisco severalyears ago, they told me Supreme has 7% ethanol in it. It may be morenow, or less, but thinking I could avoid ethanol by buying top gradegasoline was not correct. I think it's all got ethanol in it, except forboutique racing shops that sell ethanol-free gas for racing. Why wouldracing shops sell ethanol-free gas for racing if "the fastest cars in thecountry use it." I'm not arguing here since I'm not very smart, but justrelating my experiences. Steve Bennett said he always ran my engine on ethanol-free gas - which hecould get in Omaha. Here in San Diego it's only available fromspecialized racing shops. From Steve's comments on operation of myengine, I've tried to keep ethanol out of the tanks but I haveoccasionally put some Chevron Supreme in. It's always mixed withwhatever 100LL is already in the tank. In my aux tank in the wing, madefrom vinyl ester, I've been religious about never putting anything but100LL in it. I've heard too many stories about car gas wreaking havoc totanks and fuel components for me to use it more than very occasionally. Just my experience. I'm still learning new things . . .hope we all are. Nextiva vFAXWhy Do You Still Have An Old Fax Machine?http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5755c69e982ad469e6d0cst04vuc___Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.orgplease see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.htmlsee http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change options
KR> Ethanol Continued
Andrew,The information that you provided is sincerely appreciated. People may have different opinions. BUT you cannot argue with the that much solid data.Thanks again. Bill Jacobs -- Original message--From: Andrew Sugg via KRnet Date: Mon, Jun 6, 2016 1:17 PMTo: krnet at list.krnet.org;Cc: Andrew Sugg;Subject:KR> Ethanol ContinuedTony- Even full aircraft can be modified for ethanol use. Our fleet was donated or purchased aicraft. We simply pull what components we needed and anodized the alluminum, and replaced natural rubber with teflon.- The water issue is another reason we did the test. Ethanol is moonshine, and readily absorbs water. Now, you will never get 100% ethanol outside of a labratory. Even your 200 proof moonshine is roughly 95% ethanol and 5% water. Part of our testing included static tank test, aka fuel sitting in the tank for extended periods of time without use or agitation. The highest water absorbtion we saw was 5% during a hot, rainy Texas summer. Since the ethanol distributes the water, you don't have to worry about water destroying your fuel tank or vapor locking the engine. Our tested used E85 (85% ethanol 15% denaturing chemicals). We then added water (at 5% incriments) into the fuel tank and ran the engine for 5 hours, mimicing all phases of flight. We did go up to 15% water before we started hitting peak EGT before backing off on the throttle. In short, your fuel tank isn't going to allow enough water vapor in the air to pass into the tank and be absorbed to the point of causing noticeable changes. If there is that much water, someone poured it into the tank.Chris- E85/E90 is what we considered 100% during our testing, because it was 100% ethanol fuel with no 100LL in the tanks. Fuel manufacturers are required by law to add denaturing chemicals to the ethanol fuel so you can't give your car/airplane a gallon and a gallon for yourself.- In all my testing and the research that had been previously done, I couldn't find anything connecting vapor lock with ethanol use. I will state, we did have issues with start up in extremely cold temperatures (subzero Farenheit), which was countered with a fuel heater. So, probably not a great fuel for Alaskan winters.- For corrosion, we did multiple test to include common aircraft metals and composite materials. Ethanol does a great job cleaning steel (our 5,000gal steel fuel cell had no corrosion when inspected at the 5 year mark. It even cleaned the rust off of a chain that was dropped into the tank.). It does eat alluminum, but anodizing protects the alluminum components. We slosh anodized our Cessna tanks and saw no problems. With the composites, we used E-glass and Aeropoxy resin, gel coat, and carbon fiber. We saw no reaction to any composite materials during the 5 year testing.Bill- Most auto "flex fuels" are tuned to run on 87 octane, which further drives people away. NASCAR and INDY do run ethanol due to it's benefits. It also makes fuel spill clean up a lot easier. E90 and E85 are becoming more popular, but if you are in an area that has either, you could use it. One of the reasons for our testing between different ethanol and 100LL testing was for availability reasons. Say someone is able to fly at their home airport on ethanol, but was not able to find it during a cross country. You wouldn't know the exact ratio. So we tested at 10% incriments betwen 100% ethanol fuel (E85) to 100% 100LL. There were no changes in performance, outside of what we expected due to fuel flow and horsepower changes that happen between the fuels.___Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.orgplease see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.htmlsee http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change options
KR> Ethanol-free autofuel - be careful what you buy!
On the subject of ethanol-free gasoline, be careful where you buy it. I don't recommend "no-name" independent gas stations...those with names that you've never seen or are very small chains that sell really cheap gas, and for good reason. Where I live, about 5 years ago almost all of the big chains went to ethanol-laced fuel, but the no-name guys still had it. I was running the KR and the Swift both on this stuff (I have the auto-fuel STC for the Swift) and I filled the Swift up with some stuff from the local "C Fuels" station. When I was filling the 6 gallon cans at the station, I noticed a funky smell emanating from the fuel, but thought maybe it was something else. As I poured it into the Swift, I smelled it again, and realized this fuel was tainted with something other than what I was familiar with in auto fuel. A little reading revealed that some of these cheap stations sell "plug-fuel", which is stuff that might be part fuel oil (or something else) and part gasohol, mixed together in the pipeline in the gap between the dividers between two types of fuel. That's why it's so cheap. It may not have ethanol in it, but there are plenty of worse chemicals that it might have in it! Whatever it was, I walked into the hangar a few days later and it wreaked of this same awful smell. There were big oily puddles below each wing root. This "fuel" had dissolved the rubber hoses that connect the tanks to the center header, to the point that both tanks were drained, and the hoses had an "alligatored" look to them, like the cracked floor of a river bed in the driest part of summer. "Exploded" them would have been a better discription. I'll have to send a picture later. It was eye-opening to say the least.Needless to say, the hoses were replaced and the carb inspected for damage (although it was never run through the carb). Moral of the story is be careful where you buy your ethanol-free fuel. I don't know that there are any real laws that dictate exactly what can and can't be in "gasoline", especially in Alabama! Given our total lack of automobile inspections, that's not surprising, and the reason half the headlights in this state are either "coon-hunting" (aimed up in the trees), or pointed 6' in front of the car! For those who wonder where they can buy ethanol-free fuel locally, see http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp and click on your state abbreviation near the bottom. Notice that most of the places are "UNBRANDED", at least they are for Alabama. That's your clue. Our local Raceway (which is where I buy all of my car gas, and have yet to find a single drop of water or debris in it in 28 years) has recently brought ethanol-free back, but alas, it's only 87 octane. That's OK for the Swift, but not the high compression ratio Corvair or VW engine. But if you can find high octane ethanol-free fuel from a reputable chain, it's probably a good bet. I've run several thousand gallons through N56ML and had zero problems with it with my vinylester fuel tanks. Mark Langford ML at N56ML.com http://www.n56ml.com
KR> Kr- Garmin GDL 39
Is anyone using the Garmin gdl 39 as there primary ads-b and gps? I searched the archives and found nothing. Thoughts and opinions would be appreciated. Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
KR> Ethanol
It is a simple matter to separate the ethanol out of the gas. They recommend using Premium fuel due to a drop in octane when taking the ethanol out. Get a clear tank, add ethanol fuel, dump in water and watch it separate out the ethanol/water solution. Drain out the ethanol/water and you only have unleaded auto fuel left over. If you want the specific amount of water to use per gallon, Google the question and you will easily find several methods for doing this. Simple and easy to use. Doesn't take very long to do it either.. Another solution was to add a long length of clear tubing to the gas can with a shut off valve at the bottom. Dump in the water to the fuel, turn the can upside down and shake. Watch the water/ethanol separate in the clean tubing; open the valve and let the ethanol/water drain out; what you have left is pure gasoline. Works great. Your choice as to whether or not you want to try it. Ron On Mon, 6/6/16, Mike Stirewalt via KRnet wrote: Subject: KR> Ethanol To: krnet at list.krnet.org Cc: laser147 at juno.com Date: Monday, June 6, 2016, 1:52 PM I had an old Cadillac with a computer display that would read out my real-time fuel consumption.? I imagine most cars have such things these days, althoiugh the Oldsmobile that I replaced my beloved Cadillac with doesn't.? Whenever I would drive cross country and got into the mid-west where ethanol is sold, my fuel mileage would always go down.? I'm impressed by the statement "The fastest cars in the country use it." so obviously I'm suffering form a misconception.? I inherently disliked it because it decreased my fuel mileage and because government welfare to all the farmers who grow corn for ethanol annoyes me too.? Plus, I've never trusted it in my KR.? If I do ever use auto fuel in the KR (GP-2180) I always use Chevron Supreme, which is what I always use in my other vehicles.? Calling Chevron headquarters in San Francisco several years ago, they told me Supreme has 7% ethanol in it.? It may be more now, or less, but thinking I could avoid ethanol by buying top grade gasoline was not correct.? I think it's all got ethanol in it, except for boutique racing shops that sell ethanol-free gas for racing.? Why would racing shops sell ethanol-free gas for racing if "the fastest cars in the country use it."? I'm not arguing here since I'm not very smart, but just relating my experiences.? Steve Bennett said he always ran my engine on ethanol-free gas - which he could get in Omaha.? Here in San Diego it's only available from specialized racing shops.? From Steve's comments on operation of my engine, I've tried to keep ethanol out of the tanks but I have occasionally put some Chevron Supreme in.? It's always mixed with whatever 100LL is already in the tank.? In my aux tank in the wing, made from vinyl ester, I've been religious about never putting anything but 100LL in it.? I've heard too many stories about car gas wreaking havoc to tanks and fuel components for me to use it more than very occasionally. Just my experience.? I'm still learning new things . . .hope we all are. Nextiva vFAX Why Do You Still Have An Old Fax Machine? http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5755c69e982ad469e6d0cst04vuc ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change options
KR> Ethanol
One of the things to note about the ethanol/water issue. Water and ethanol are fully miscible; i.e., the blend is total and permanent under normal conditions. You can determine the "mix" by monitoring specific gravity and applying the appropriate formula to determine the "percentage" of water. There are other analytical methods available as well. While it is miscible, it is not hygroscopic in and of itself - water in alcohol is typically the result of condensation in the fuel cell and the aforementioned miscibility. JMHO. Mark W. N952MW (res) >Tony King wrote. >-Original Message- >From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Tony King >via KRnet >Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 10:29 PM >To: KRnet >Cc: Tony King >Subject: Re: KR> Ethanol >The two primary objections to ethanol seem to be corrosion/degradatiion of >fuel system components and its tendency to absorb water. As you've pointed >out, the corrosion can be dealt with at >design stage quite readily - just >specify appropriate materials. >The water issue doesn't seem so straightforward... --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
KR> Ethanol
Ron,? ? ? ? I've heard some hardcore motorcycle dudes would do the same thing. ? Paul Visk. ? Belleville IL. ? ?618 406 4705 Sent on the new Sprint Network from my Samsung Galaxy S?4 Original message From: Ronald Wright via KRnet List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: 06/06/2016 3:19 PM (GMT-05:00) To: KRnet Cc: Ronald Wright Subject: Re: KR> Ethanol It is a simple matter to separate the ethanol out of the gas.? They recommend using Premium fuel due to a drop in octane when taking the ethanol out.? Get a clear tank, add ethanol fuel, dump in water and watch it separate out the ethanol/water solution.? Drain out the ethanol/water and you only have unleaded auto fuel left over.? If you want the specific amount of water to use per gallon, Google the question and you will easily find several methods for doing this.? Simple and easy to use.? Doesn't take very long to do it either.. Another solution was to add a long length of clear tubing to the gas can with a shut off valve at the bottom.? Dump in the water to the fuel, turn the can upside down and shake.? Watch the water/ethanol separate in the clean tubing; open the valve and let the ethanol/water drain out;? what you have left is pure gasoline. Works great.? Your choice as to whether or not you want to try it. Ron On Mon, 6/6/16, Mike Stirewalt via KRnet wrote: Subject: KR> Ethanol To: krnet at list.krnet.org Cc: laser147 at juno.com Date: Monday, June 6, 2016, 1:52 PM I had an old Cadillac with a computer display that would read out my real-time fuel consumption.? I imagine most cars have such things these days, althoiugh the Oldsmobile that I replaced my beloved Cadillac with doesn't.? Whenever I would drive cross country and got into the mid-west where ethanol is sold, my fuel mileage would always go down.? I'm impressed by the statement "The fastest cars in the country use it." so obviously I'm suffering form a misconception.? I inherently disliked it because it decreased my fuel mileage and because government welfare to all the farmers who grow corn for ethanol annoyes me too.? Plus, I've never trusted it in my KR.? If I do ever use auto fuel in the KR (GP-2180) I always use Chevron Supreme, which is what I always use in my other vehicles.? Calling Chevron headquarters in San Francisco several years ago, they told me Supreme has 7% ethanol in it.? It may be more now, or less, but thinking I could avoid ethanol by buying top grade gasoline was not correct.? I think it's all got ethanol in it, except for boutique racing shops that sell ethanol-free gas for racing.? Why would racing shops sell ethanol-free gas for racing if "the fastest cars in the country use it."? I'm not arguing here since I'm not very smart, but just relating my experiences.? Steve Bennett said he always ran my engine on ethanol-free gas - which he could get in Omaha.? Here in San Diego it's only available from specialized racing shops.? From Steve's comments on operation of my engine, I've tried to keep ethanol out of the tanks but I have occasionally put some Chevron Supreme in.? It's always mixed with whatever 100LL is already in the tank.? In my aux tank in the wing, made from vinyl ester, I've been religious about never putting anything but 100LL in it.? I've heard too many stories about car gas wreaking havoc to tanks and fuel components for me to use it more than very occasionally. Just my experience.? I'm still learning new things . . .hope we all are. Nextiva vFAX Why Do You Still Have An Old Fax Machine? http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5755c69e982ad469e6d0cst04vuc ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change options ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change options
KR> Ethanol Continued
Tony - Even full aircraft can be modified for ethanol use. Our fleet was donated or purchased aicraft. We simply pull what components we needed and anodized the alluminum, and replaced natural rubber with teflon. - The water issue is another reason we did the test. Ethanol is moonshine, and readily absorbs water. Now, you will never get 100% ethanol outside of a labratory. Even your 200 proof moonshine is roughly 95% ethanol and 5% water. Part of our testing included static tank test, aka fuel sitting in the tank for extended periods of time without use or agitation. The highest water absorbtion we saw was 5% during a hot, rainy Texas summer. Since the ethanol distributes the water, you don't have to worry about water destroying your fuel tank or vapor locking the engine. Our tested used E85 (85% ethanol 15% denaturing chemicals). We then added water (at 5% incriments) into the fuel tank and ran the engine for 5 hours, mimicing all phases of flight. We did go up to 15% water before we started hitting peak EGT before backing off on the throttle. In short, your fuel tank isn't going to allow enough water vapor in the air to pass into the tank and be absorbed to the point of causing noticeable changes. If there is that much water, someone poured it into the tank. Chris - E85/E90 is what we considered 100% during our testing, because it was 100% ethanol fuel with no 100LL in the tanks. Fuel manufacturers are required by law to add denaturing chemicals to the ethanol fuel so you can't give your car/airplane a gallon and a gallon for yourself. - In all my testing and the research that had been previously done, I couldn't find anything connecting vapor lock with ethanol use. I will state, we did have issues with start up in extremely cold temperatures (subzero Farenheit), which was countered with a fuel heater. So, probably not a great fuel for Alaskan winters. - For corrosion, we did multiple test to include common aircraft metals and composite materials. Ethanol does a great job cleaning steel (our 5,000gal steel fuel cell had no corrosion when inspected at the 5 year mark. It even cleaned the rust off of a chain that was dropped into the tank.). It does eat alluminum, but anodizing protects the alluminum components. We slosh anodized our Cessna tanks and saw no problems. With the composites, we used E-glass and Aeropoxy resin, gel coat, and carbon fiber. We saw no reaction to any composite materials during the 5 year testing. Bill - Most auto "flex fuels" are tuned to run on 87 octane, which further drives people away. NASCAR and INDY do run ethanol due to it's benefits. It also makes fuel spill clean up a lot easier. E90 and E85 are becoming more popular, but if you are in an area that has either, you could use it. One of the reasons for our testing between different ethanol and 100LL testing was for availability reasons. Say someone is able to fly at their home airport on ethanol, but was not able to find it during a cross country. You wouldn't know the exact ratio. So we tested at 10% incriments betwen 100% ethanol fuel (E85) to 100% 100LL. There were no changes in performance, outside of what we expected due to fuel flow and horsepower changes that happen between the fuels.
KR> Ethanol
Ethanol free is also available anywhere you go here in florida. Be it a marina or just the local race track gas station. Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device Original message From: Pete Klapp via KRnet Date: 6/6/16 3:32 PM (GMT-05:00) To: Ronald Wright , krnet at list.krnet.org Cc: Pete Klapp Subject: Re: KR> Ethanol Ron Ethanol free fuel is also available at many marinas, at least here in Ohio. Pete Klapp, building KR-2S N729PK, Canton, Ohio > Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 19:19:39 + > To: krnet at list.krnet.org > Subject: Re: KR> Ethanol > From: krnet at list.krnet.org > CC: ronwright5 at yahoo.com > > It is a simple matter to separate the ethanol out of the gas.? They recommend > using Premium fuel due to a drop in octane when taking the ethanol out.? Get > a clear tank, add ethanol fuel, dump in water and watch it separate out the > ethanol/water solution.? Drain out the ethanol/water and you only have > unleaded auto fuel left over.? If you want the specific amount of water to > use per gallon, Google the question and you will easily find several methods > for doing this.? Simple and easy to use.? Doesn't take very long to do it > either.. > > Another solution was to add a long length of clear tubing to the gas can with > a shut off valve at the bottom.? Dump in the water to the fuel, turn the can > upside down and shake.? Watch the water/ethanol separate in the clean tubing; > open the valve and let the ethanol/water drain out;? what you have left is > pure gasoline. > > Works great.? Your choice as to whether or not you want to try it. > > Ron > > > > On Mon, 6/6/16, Mike Stirewalt via KRnet wrote: > >? Subject: KR> Ethanol >? To: krnet at list.krnet.org >? Cc: laser147 at juno.com >? Date: Monday, June 6, 2016, 1:52 PM >? >? I had an old Cadillac with a computer >? display that would read out my >? real-time fuel consumption.? I imagine most cars have >? such things these >? days, althoiugh the Oldsmobile that I replaced my beloved >? Cadillac with >? doesn't.? Whenever I would drive cross country and got >? into the mid-west >? where ethanol is sold, my fuel mileage would always go >? down.? >? >? I'm impressed by the statement "The fastest cars in the >? country use it." >? so obviously I'm suffering form a misconception.? I >? inherently disliked >? it because it decreased my fuel mileage and because >? government welfare to >? all the farmers who grow corn for ethanol annoyes me >? too.? Plus, I've >? never trusted it in my KR.? If I do ever use auto fuel >? in the KR >? (GP-2180) I always use Chevron Supreme, which is what I >? always use in my >? other vehicles.? Calling Chevron headquarters in San >? Francisco several >? years ago, they told me Supreme has 7% ethanol in it. >? It may be more >? now, or less, but thinking I could avoid ethanol by buying >? top grade >? gasoline was not correct.? I think it's all got ethanol >? in it, except for >? boutique racing shops that sell ethanol-free gas for >? racing.? Why would >? racing shops sell ethanol-free gas for racing if "the >? fastest cars in the >? country use it."? I'm not arguing here since I'm not >? very smart, but just >? relating my experiences.? >? >? Steve Bennett said he always ran my engine on ethanol-free >? gas - which he >? could get in Omaha.? Here in San Diego it's only >? available from >? specialized racing shops.? From Steve's comments on >? operation of my >? engine, I've tried to keep ethanol out of the tanks but I >? have >? occasionally put some Chevron Supreme in.? It's always >? mixed with >? whatever 100LL is already in the tank.? In my aux tank >? in the wing, made >? from vinyl ester, I've been religious about never putting >? anything but >? 100LL in it.? I've heard too many stories about car gas >? wreaking havoc to >? tanks and fuel components for me to use it more than very >? occasionally. >? Just my experience.? I'm still learning new things . . >? .hope we all are. >? >? >? >? Nextiva vFAX >? Why Do You Still Have An Old Fax Machine? >? http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5755c69e982ad469e6d0cst04vuc >? >? ___ >? Search the KRnet Archives at >? http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. >? To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org >? please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >? see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org >? to change options > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. > To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change > options ??
KR> Ethanol
Ron Ethanol free fuel is also available at many marinas, at least here in Ohio. Pete Klapp, building KR-2S N729PK, Canton, Ohio > Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 19:19:39 + > To: krnet at list.krnet.org > Subject: Re: KR> Ethanol > From: krnet at list.krnet.org > CC: ronwright5 at yahoo.com > > It is a simple matter to separate the ethanol out of the gas. They recommend > using Premium fuel due to a drop in octane when taking the ethanol out. Get > a clear tank, add ethanol fuel, dump in water and watch it separate out the > ethanol/water solution. Drain out the ethanol/water and you only have > unleaded auto fuel left over. If you want the specific amount of water to > use per gallon, Google the question and you will easily find several methods > for doing this. Simple and easy to use. Doesn't take very long to do it > either.. > > Another solution was to add a long length of clear tubing to the gas can with > a shut off valve at the bottom. Dump in the water to the fuel, turn the can > upside down and shake. Watch the water/ethanol separate in the clean tubing; > open the valve and let the ethanol/water drain out; what you have left is > pure gasoline. > > Works great. Your choice as to whether or not you want to try it. > > Ron > > > > On Mon, 6/6/16, Mike Stirewalt via KRnet wrote: > > Subject: KR> Ethanol > To: krnet at list.krnet.org > Cc: laser147 at juno.com > Date: Monday, June 6, 2016, 1:52 PM > > I had an old Cadillac with a computer > display that would read out my > real-time fuel consumption. I imagine most cars have > such things these > days, althoiugh the Oldsmobile that I replaced my beloved > Cadillac with > doesn't. Whenever I would drive cross country and got > into the mid-west > where ethanol is sold, my fuel mileage would always go > down. > > I'm impressed by the statement "The fastest cars in the > country use it." > so obviously I'm suffering form a misconception. I > inherently disliked > it because it decreased my fuel mileage and because > government welfare to > all the farmers who grow corn for ethanol annoyes me > too. Plus, I've > never trusted it in my KR. If I do ever use auto fuel > in the KR > (GP-2180) I always use Chevron Supreme, which is what I > always use in my > other vehicles. Calling Chevron headquarters in San > Francisco several > years ago, they told me Supreme has 7% ethanol in it. > It may be more > now, or less, but thinking I could avoid ethanol by buying > top grade > gasoline was not correct. I think it's all got ethanol > in it, except for > boutique racing shops that sell ethanol-free gas for > racing. Why would > racing shops sell ethanol-free gas for racing if "the > fastest cars in the > country use it." I'm not arguing here since I'm not > very smart, but just > relating my experiences. > > Steve Bennett said he always ran my engine on ethanol-free > gas - which he > could get in Omaha. Here in San Diego it's only > available from > specialized racing shops. From Steve's comments on > operation of my > engine, I've tried to keep ethanol out of the tanks but I > have > occasionally put some Chevron Supreme in. It's always > mixed with > whatever 100LL is already in the tank. In my aux tank > in the wing, made > from vinyl ester, I've been religious about never putting > anything but > 100LL in it. I've heard too many stories about car gas > wreaking havoc to > tanks and fuel components for me to use it more than very > occasionally. > Just my experience. I'm still learning new things . . > .hope we all are. > > > > Nextiva vFAX > Why Do You Still Have An Old Fax Machine? > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5755c69e982ad469e6d0cst04vuc > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. > To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org > to change options > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. > To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change > options
KR> Ethanol
Keep in mind that the original post was regarding pure ethanol which is a different animal than automotive gas with 10% ethanol that you get at your local gas station. The concerns with using ethanol containing gas and the reasons the FAA does not allow its use in certified planes with auto fuel STCs are still valid. Original Message Subject: KR> Ethanol From: Mike Stirewalt via KRnet List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: Mon, June 06, 2016 11:52 am To: krnet at list.krnet.org Cc: laser147 at juno.com I had an old Cadillac with a computer display that would read out my real-time fuel consumption. I imagine most cars have such things these days, althoiugh the Oldsmobile that I replaced my beloved Cadillac with doesn't. Whenever I would drive cross country and got into the mid-west where ethanol is sold, my fuel mileage would always go down. I'm impressed by the statement "The fastest cars in the country use it." so obviously I'm suffering form a misconception. I inherently disliked it because it decreased my fuel mileage and because government welfare to all the farmers who grow corn for ethanol annoyes me too. Plus, I've never trusted it in my KR. If I do ever use auto fuel in the KR (GP-2180) I always use Chevron Supreme, which is what I always use in my other vehicles. Calling Chevron headquarters in San Francisco several years ago, they told me Supreme has 7% ethanol in it. It may be more now, or less, but thinking I could avoid ethanol by buying top grade gasoline was not correct. I think it's all got ethanol in it, except for boutique racing shops that sell ethanol-free gas for racing. Why would racing shops sell ethanol-free gas for racing if "the fastest cars in the country use it." I'm not arguing here since I'm not very smart, but just relating my experiences. Steve Bennett said he always ran my engine on ethanol-free gas - which he could get in Omaha. Here in San Diego it's only available from specialized racing shops. From Steve's comments on operation of my engine, I've tried to keep ethanol out of the tanks but I have occasionally put some Chevron Supreme in. It's always mixed with whatever 100LL is already in the tank. In my aux tank in the wing, made from vinyl ester, I've been religious about never putting anything but 100LL in it. I've heard too many stories about car gas wreaking havoc to tanks and fuel components for me to use it more than very occasionally. Just my experience. I'm still learning new things . . .hope we all are. Nextiva vFAX Why Do You Still Have An Old Fax Machine? http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5755c69e982ad469e6d0cst04vuc ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change options
KR> Ethanol
No need for root beer on tap any more at KR flyin's over there!! John Martindale 29 Jane Circuit Toormina NSW 2452 Australia ph:61 2 6658 4767 m:0403 432179 email:john_martindale at bigpond.com web site: -Original Message- From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of andrew via KRnet Sent: Monday, 6 June 2016 1:07 PM To: krnet at list.krnet.org Cc: andrew Subject: KR> Ethanol Here goes the spoon feed ?Don?t use it?. As I?m working on blue prints for the KRSuper1, and getting my outside research done. I am settled on one huge taboo of the aviation community. This bad boy is going to be tuned and built to run primarily on ethanol..SNIP..
KR> Ethanol
The two primary objections to ethanol seem to be corrosion/degradatiion of fuel system components and its tendency to absorb water. As you've pointed out, the corrosion can be dealt with at design stage quite readily - just specify appropriate materials. The water issue doesn't seem so straightforward. While an engine may run fine on ethanol with a known quantity of water added, when an aircraft sits idle for weeks at a time, how can you know how much water is in the fuel? How much water can ethanol absorb? How do you know how much it's absorbed? Is it evenly distributed (e.g. in solution with the ethanol) or does it accumulate at the bottom of the tank. Getting a known and consistent amount seems like a challenge to me. An then there's the question of where to get 100% ethanol. Is it as readily available to the average joe as 100LL or unleaded? I look forward to hearing of your progress from time to time. Cheers, Tony On 6 June 2016 at 13:06, andrew via KRnet wrote: > Here goes the spoon feed ?Don?t use it?. > > As I?m working on blue prints for the KRSuper1, and getting my outside > research done. I am settled on one huge taboo of the aviation community. > This bad boy is going to be tuned and built to run primarily on ethanol. > > ?But Cessna and the big aviation companies says it?s horrible.? Hold on > and let me get some hand on acknowledge your way. > > Dr. Maxwell Schauck has been flying on ethanol since the 1980?s, and flew > across the Atlantic in his Velocity back in 1989. While I was attending his > program at Baylor University I got to participate in his research for 4 > years. In that four years I came to find out a few things. > > 1. Ethanol is a superior fuel to 100LL. > 2. Oil companies will do everything to keep it out of mainstream use > 3. Ethanol has a natural octane of 113 > 4. Ethanol burns cooler, and will run smooth at 50 degrees past peak EGT > 5. If you add water, you get a horsepower boost, AND you don?t have to > worry about it damaging your engine > 6. Ethanol reduces engine vibrations by 50%. > 7. Ethanol doesn?t react with oil in the same manor as 100ll or mogas > 8. Ethanol will eat aluminum and natural rubber. Easily combated by > anodizing and using Teflon > 9. If an engine is tuned to ethanol vs. 100LL, you get a significant > horsepower boost with minimal GPH increase. > > This is all based on my personal experience working on our departments > Pitts S2B, Cessna 152, Cessna 172, Velocity, Piper Aztec, and Max > Performance Research aircraft prototype. We averaged a horsepower increase > of roughly 30-35% increase with ethanol vs. avgas, with no changes to the > mechanical tuning on the engine. To the point we had to order custom props > for all our aircraft, due to engine overspeed with the standard propellers. > (The Pitts S2B ran 300HP on 100LL and 350HP on ethanol). > > We also did water in fuel testing for the FAA while getting our Cessna?s > STCs updated (yes, Dr. Schauck owns the STCs for 152s and 172s to be flown > on 100% ethanol in utility category). We were able to add 10% water to the > fuel tanks before reaching peak EGTs. Had we tuned the engine this > percentage would have gone up. > > So why am I sharing; I plan on building the first KR that is designed to > fly on ethanol. And foreseeing the usual arguments I figured I would head > off most prior to having to repeat. > > So a Corvair with 100HP should obtain 130HP simply by tuning to run on the > 113 Octane ethanol. But we shall see when we get to that part of my build. > > What are your thoughts on the matter? > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. > To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change > options >
KR> Ethanol
*What about high altitude flying in the winter *time?? I have gone to 100LL in the winter because of accational carb icing. ?Would the moisture absorbed by ethanol fuel contribute to carb icing? Joe Nunley?CW2 US Army RetiredBaker JROTC Instructor?Baker Florida?
KR> Ethanol
What about high altitude flying in the winter time? Sense ethanol will hold moisture how do you prevent freezing? Sounds like you all have done a lot of research just ask. Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 6, 2016, at 2:27 AM, billjacobs386 at yahoo.com via KRnet list.krnet.org> wrote: > > > > > > > >Probably the same reason most auto oriented stay away. Availability. I > agree with everything you said. Fuel consumption increases slightly to > compensate for power density. Some of the fastest cars on the planet run it > and i would set up for it too. If i could RELIABLY find it.My 2C > Bill Jacobs > > > -- Original message--From: andrew via KRnet Date: Sun, Jun 5, 2016 > 11:06 PMTo: krnet at list.krnet.org;Cc: andrew;Subject:KR> EthanolHere goes > the spoon feed ?Don?t use it?. As I?m working on blue prints for the > KRSuper1, and getting my outside research done. I am settled on one huge > taboo of the aviation community. This bad boy is going to be tuned and built > to run primarily on ethanol.?But Cessna and the big aviation companies says > it?s horrible.? Hold on and let me get some hand on acknowledge your way.Dr. > Maxwell Schauck has been flying on ethanol since the 1980?s, and flew across > the Atlantic in his Velocity back in 1989. While I was attending his program > at Baylor University I got to participate in his research for 4 years. In > that four years I came to find out a few things.1. Ethanol is a superior fuel > to 100LL.2. Oil companies will do everything to keep it out of mainstream > use3. Ethanol has a natural octane of 1134. Ethanol burns cooler, and will > run smooth at 50 degrees past peak EGT5. If you add water, you get a > horsepower boost, AND you don?t have to worry about it damaging your engine6. > Ethanol reduces engine vibrations by 50%.7. Ethanol doesn?t react with oil in > the same manor as 100ll or mogas8. Ethanol will eat aluminum and natural > rubber. Easily combated by anodizing and using Teflon9. If an engine is tuned > to ethanol vs. 100LL, you get a significant horsepower boost with minimal GPH > increase.This is all based on my personal experience working on our > departments Pitts S2B, Cessna 152, Cessna 172, Velocity, Piper Aztec, and Max > Performance Research aircraft prototype. We averaged a horsepower increase of > roughly 30-35% increase with ethanol vs. avgas, with no changes to the > mechanical tuning on the engine. To the point we had to order custom props > for all our aircraft, due to engine overspeed with the standard propellers. > (The Pitts S2B ran 300HP on 100LL and 350HP on ethanol).We also did water in > fuel testing for the FAA while getting our Cessna?s STCs updated (yes, Dr. > Schauck owns the STCs for 152s and 172s to be flown on 100% ethanol in > utility category). We were able to add 10% water to the fuel tanks before > reaching peak EGTs. Had we tuned the engine this percentage would have gone > up.So why am I sharing; I plan on building the first KR that is designed to > fly on ethanol. And foreseeing the usual arguments I figured I would head off > most prior to having to repeat. So a Corvair with 100HP should obtain 130HP > simply by tuning to run on the 113 Octane ethanol. But we shall see when we > get to that part of my build.What are your thoughts on the matter?Sent from > Mail for Windows 10___Search the > KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.To UNsubscribe > from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.orgplease see other > KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.htmlsee > http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change options > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search. > To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change > options
KR> ADS-B rebate
According to the article at the link below, the FAA is offering a $500 rebate to those who install ADS-B IN/OUT systems. http://goo.gl/VqPIbD I've been reading recently, Navworx and Selus have FAA compliant ADS-B systems for prices approaching $500. Concievably, if you put a system in that costs less than $500 one could even make a profit on the deal after getting the rebate.. The FAA compliant ADS-B in/out boxes I've been reading about recently have been primarily developed for UAS (Unmanned Aircraft Systems) but are apparently perfectly legal to use in Experimentals. Looking last night I could find only one in/out system for $1200 - but I've seen prices quoted recently down in the $500 range. I don't have that info at hand but as time goes by all this will become widely known by us cheapskates that don't want to put a Garmin GTX345 in. (If I was rich I sure would though - that is one nice transponder!) These new ADS-B systems don't require a separate transponder to link to - they have a built in signal generator that serves the same purpose as a transponder. These small, self-contained ADS-B in/out systems transmit and receive all the ADS-B information, are FAA compliant, and cost around $500. Navworx makes one of them and Selus is another - I think I have the spelling wrong on the latter. We'll certainly know more as time goes by but it appears my prediction of a year or more ago that we'll have choices for ADS-B in/out systems for $500 is coming to pass already and we're still 3.5 years away from the mandate deadline. Mike KSEE Nextiva vFAX Why Do You Still Have An Old Fax Machine? http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5755cc0446974c01589cst02vuc
KR> Brake fluid
I've got Rosenhaun reservoirs and cylinders attached to my rudder pedals and the wheels and brakes are also Rosenhaun. I'm pretty sure Rosenhaun sold out to Matco at some point so I guess I could say I have Matco wheels and brakes, although there may be differences now. When I first changed my fluid I called Steve to ask what he recommended I use as brake fluid. His answer was to use aircraft hydraulic fluid. So I bought a quart can of it and I recall it was damned expensive but that's what I've used on both occasions when I've bled the lines and put new fluid in. My brake lines that run from the pedals to the brakes are clear so I can see the color of the fluid. It stays nice and red and my brakes always work - although I use brakes as little as possible. So . . . I don't use any of the DOT fluids. Just plain red aircraft quality hydraulic fluid. Mike KSEE Affordable Wireless Plans Set up is easy. Get online in minutes. Starting at only $9.95 per month! www.netzero.net?refcd=nzmem0216
KR> Ethanol
I had an old Cadillac with a computer display that would read out my real-time fuel consumption. I imagine most cars have such things these days, althoiugh the Oldsmobile that I replaced my beloved Cadillac with doesn't. Whenever I would drive cross country and got into the mid-west where ethanol is sold, my fuel mileage would always go down. I'm impressed by the statement "The fastest cars in the country use it." so obviously I'm suffering form a misconception. I inherently disliked it because it decreased my fuel mileage and because government welfare to all the farmers who grow corn for ethanol annoyes me too. Plus, I've never trusted it in my KR. If I do ever use auto fuel in the KR (GP-2180) I always use Chevron Supreme, which is what I always use in my other vehicles. Calling Chevron headquarters in San Francisco several years ago, they told me Supreme has 7% ethanol in it. It may be more now, or less, but thinking I could avoid ethanol by buying top grade gasoline was not correct. I think it's all got ethanol in it, except for boutique racing shops that sell ethanol-free gas for racing. Why would racing shops sell ethanol-free gas for racing if "the fastest cars in the country use it." I'm not arguing here since I'm not very smart, but just relating my experiences. Steve Bennett said he always ran my engine on ethanol-free gas - which he could get in Omaha. Here in San Diego it's only available from specialized racing shops. From Steve's comments on operation of my engine, I've tried to keep ethanol out of the tanks but I have occasionally put some Chevron Supreme in. It's always mixed with whatever 100LL is already in the tank. In my aux tank in the wing, made from vinyl ester, I've been religious about never putting anything but 100LL in it. I've heard too many stories about car gas wreaking havoc to tanks and fuel components for me to use it more than very occasionally. Just my experience. I'm still learning new things . . .hope we all are. Nextiva vFAX Why Do You Still Have An Old Fax Machine? http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5755c69e982ad469e6d0cst04vuc
KR> Ethanol
Probably the same reason most auto oriented stay away. Availability. I agree with everything you said. Fuel consumption increases slightly to compensate for power density. Some of the fastest cars on the planet run it and i would set up for it too. If i could RELIABLY find it.My 2C Bill Jacobs -- Original message--From: andrew via KRnet Date: Sun, Jun 5, 2016 11:06 PMTo: krnet at list.krnet.org;Cc: andrew;Subject:KR> EthanolHere goes the spoon feed ?Don?t use it?. As I?m working on blue prints for the KRSuper1, and getting my outside research done. I am settled on one huge taboo of the aviation community. This bad boy is going to be tuned and built to run primarily on ethanol.?But Cessna and the big aviation companies says it?s horrible.? Hold on and let me get some hand on acknowledge your way.Dr. Maxwell Schauck has been flying on ethanol since the 1980?s, and flew across the Atlantic in his Velocity back in 1989. While I was attending his program at Baylor University I got to participate in his research for 4 years. In that four years I came to find out a few things.1. Ethanol is a superior fuel to 100LL.2. Oil companies will do everything to keep it out of mainstream use3. Ethanol has a natural octane of 1134. Ethanol burns cooler, and will run smooth at 50 degrees past peak EGT5. If you add water, you get a horsepower boost, AND you don?t have to worry about it damaging your engine6. Ethanol reduces engine vibrations by 50%.7. Ethanol doesn?t react with oil in the same manor as 100ll or mogas8. Ethanol will eat aluminum and natural rubber. Easily combated by anodizing and using Teflon9. If an engine is tuned to ethanol vs. 100LL, you get a significant horsepower boost with minimal GPH increase.This is all based on my personal experience working on our departments Pitts S2B, Cessna 152, Cessna 172, Velocity, Piper Aztec, and Max Performance Research aircraft prototype. We averaged a horsepower increase of roughly 30-35% increase with ethanol vs. avgas, with no changes to the mechanical tuning on the engine. To the point we had to order custom props for all our aircraft, due to engine overspeed with the standard propellers. (The Pitts S2B ran 300HP on 100LL and 350HP on ethanol).We also did water in fuel testing for the FAA while getting our Cessna?s STCs updated (yes, Dr. Schauck owns the STCs for 152s and 172s to be flown on 100% ethanol in utility category). We were able to add 10% water to the fuel tanks before reaching peak EGTs. Had we tuned the engine this percentage would have gone up.So why am I sharing; I plan on building the first KR that is designed to fly on ethanol. And foreseeing the usual arguments I figured I would head off most prior to having to repeat. So a Corvair with 100HP should obtain 130HP simply by tuning to run on the 113 Octane ethanol. But we shall see when we get to that part of my build.What are your thoughts on the matter?Sent from Mail for Windows 10___Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.orgplease see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.htmlsee http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change options
KR> Cleveland Brakes with DOT 3
Joe, If you are determined to use DOT brake fluid with Cleveland brakes, I would recommend using DOT 5 silicone based fluid. DOT 5 will be compatible with both your master cylinders and your slave cylinders. -Jeff Scott Los Alamos, NM ? ? Sent:?Sunday, June 05, 2016 at 4:13 PM From:?"bjoenunley via KRnet" To:?KRnet Cc:?bjoenunley Subject:?KR> Cleavland Brakes with DOT 3 Can cleavland brakes operate with DOT 3 brake fluid? I'm using motorcycle master cylinders that use DOTS 3. Joe Nunley?CW2 US Army RetiredBaker JROTC Instructor?Baker Florida? options
KR> Ethanol
my FIRST thought upon reading that (besides how interesting it is) is what does this mean for E90 from the local Shell station because, economically, thats the cheapest to run. I then think of "vapor lock" which seems to be the primary concern, followed by water absorption and corrosion. I am not talking about the primary topic of course which is E100... because thats hard to get I always thought to run 100ll in one tank for takeoff and approach/landing, and E90 in the working tank which would be drained into my car after flight. > What are your thoughts on the matter?
KR> Ethanol
Here goes the spoon feed ?Don?t use it?. As I?m working on blue prints for the KRSuper1, and getting my outside research done. I am settled on one huge taboo of the aviation community. This bad boy is going to be tuned and built to run primarily on ethanol. ?But Cessna and the big aviation companies says it?s horrible.? Hold on and let me get some hand on acknowledge your way. Dr. Maxwell Schauck has been flying on ethanol since the 1980?s, and flew across the Atlantic in his Velocity back in 1989. While I was attending his program at Baylor University I got to participate in his research for 4 years. In that four years I came to find out a few things. 1. Ethanol is a superior fuel to 100LL. 2. Oil companies will do everything to keep it out of mainstream use 3. Ethanol has a natural octane of 113 4. Ethanol burns cooler, and will run smooth at 50 degrees past peak EGT 5. If you add water, you get a horsepower boost, AND you don?t have to worry about it damaging your engine 6. Ethanol reduces engine vibrations by 50%. 7. Ethanol doesn?t react with oil in the same manor as 100ll or mogas 8. Ethanol will eat aluminum and natural rubber. Easily combated by anodizing and using Teflon 9. If an engine is tuned to ethanol vs. 100LL, you get a significant horsepower boost with minimal GPH increase. This is all based on my personal experience working on our departments Pitts S2B, Cessna 152, Cessna 172, Velocity, Piper Aztec, and Max Performance Research aircraft prototype. We averaged a horsepower increase of roughly 30-35% increase with ethanol vs. avgas, with no changes to the mechanical tuning on the engine. To the point we had to order custom props for all our aircraft, due to engine overspeed with the standard propellers. (The Pitts S2B ran 300HP on 100LL and 350HP on ethanol). We also did water in fuel testing for the FAA while getting our Cessna?s STCs updated (yes, Dr. Schauck owns the STCs for 152s and 172s to be flown on 100% ethanol in utility category). We were able to add 10% water to the fuel tanks before reaching peak EGTs. Had we tuned the engine this percentage would have gone up. So why am I sharing; I plan on building the first KR that is designed to fly on ethanol. And foreseeing the usual arguments I figured I would head off most prior to having to repeat. So a Corvair with 100HP should obtain 130HP simply by tuning to run on the 113 Octane ethanol. But we shall see when we get to that part of my build. What are your thoughts on the matter? Sent from Mail for Windows 10
