KR> engine outs

[Coda Riley]

I was reading the engine out advice and granted,,,practice help's ,,but we have 
to keep in mind,,the windmilling prop of an idling engine is going to decrease 
your glide ratio,,so for the stopped prop,,,you might overshoot your intended 
touchdown by quite a bit.  In flying ultralight's and exp. aircraft over the 
year's, I can attest to that first hand.  Just my two bit's.  Also,,in 
describing the handling of the KR-2,,,I know from different pilot's,,one's 
going to come away with different description's.  I have time in mooneys, 
grummans, and even a long easy.  Aside from being overly pitch sensitive,,,it 
was an awesome bird to fly.  I hear that might describe a KR-2.

  Coda


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KR> engine outs

[Mark Langford]

I did a flight test in my KR2S a few weeks ago to check the facts on 
windmilling props and glide ratio. Two tests from 10,000' (one with engine 
on, one with it off) proved to me that there is no appreciable difference in 
glide rate between engine idling and engine off.  Engine off in a VW or 
Corvair engine mean the prop is stopped, rather than windmilling, so that 
may be the difference in KR "real world" and "conventional wisdom".  Short 
props and high compression ratios keep the prop from windmilling when the 
engine is off.  I did these tests because I wanted to know what my real 
glide rate was (13.5:1 in present configuration) and because I wanted to 
know if my glide rate would improve with the engine off.

Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama
see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford
email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net 

KR> engine outs

[Coda Riley]

I know my VW stopped as well after quitting,,because of high compression and 
short prop,,,same as ultralight's,,two cycle engine's with reduction drive,,and 
low speed stop's the prop,,,I was implying practicing dead stick landing's with 
pulling throttle,,therefore, the prop is still spinning.  Just my two cent's, 
but not applying to the KR-2,,then windmilling props during deadstick practice 
would be accurate.

  Coda

Mark Langford  wrote:
  I did a flight test in my KR2S a few weeks ago to check the facts on 
windmilling props and glide ratio. Two tests from 10,000' (one with engine 
on, one with it off) proved to me that there is no appreciable difference in 
glide rate between engine idling and engine off. Engine off in a VW or 
Corvair engine mean the prop is stopped, rather than windmilling, so that 
may be the difference in KR "real world" and "conventional wisdom". Short 
props and high compression ratios keep the prop from windmilling when the 
engine is off. I did these tests because I wanted to know what my real 
glide rate was (13.5:1 in present configuration) and because I wanted to 
know if my glide rate would improve with the engine off.

Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama
see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford
email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net 


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KR> engine outs

[D F Lively]

Mark:

That glide ratio informationis valuable to me and gixes me some idea as to what
I can expect.  It seems to me if my memory serves me right that the glide ratio
is lower than the 172 or the early 150/160 hp 177s(Cardinals) and very much a
"Brick" compared to the 150's.  The 182s & up of course have lower glide ratios
with the 182's down in the 10:1 area if  I  remember well but since the 182's
are in the 2600 to 2800 MTOW area they do not get bounced about near as much as
a KR will.

Don
  

Mark Langford wrote:

> I did a flight test in my KR2S a few weeks ago to check the facts on
> windmilling props and glide ratio. Two tests from 10,000' (one with engine
> on, one with it off) proved to me that there is no appreciable difference in
> glide rate between engine idling and engine off.  Engine off in a VW or
> Corvair engine mean the prop is stopped, rather than windmilling, so that
> may be the difference in KR "real world" and "conventional wisdom".  Short
> props and high compression ratios keep the prop from windmilling when the
> engine is off.  I did these tests because I wanted to know what my real
> glide rate was (13.5:1 in present configuration) and because I wanted to
> know if my glide rate would improve with the engine off.
>
> Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama
> see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford
> email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net
>
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html

KR> engine outs

[Mark Langford]

The site at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glide_ratio says the glide ratio of 
a Cessna 150 is about 7:1.  It took about 15 seconds to type that into 
Google to find two sources that corroborate that.

Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama
see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford
email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net

KR> engine outs

[Barry Kruyssen]

I have done the same test as Mark, though from on 6500', in a my nearly
stock KR2 and cannot pick the difference between windmilling and engine off.
Maybe our idle is the same RPM that causes the same drag as a stopped prop.
My engine won't windmill unless I'm doing around 95+ kts.

Also from what Colin Rainey said in a prior email, practice you emergency
procedures.  I operate from a grass strip and practice engine out (at idle)
emergencies probably 25% of my air time (We get a lot of socked in weather
here that limits me to doing only circuits). Last weekend, when it was
blowing 20kts and gusting to much more, and within 20 degrees to straight
down the strip, I even practiced an engine out on climb out, at 500' as I
turned to join circuit. I dropped the nose to maintain 80kts and cranked it
round in a very tight turn to get back over the airfield with about 70' to
spare, as I eased the angle of the turn I bought the speed back to 65kts and
went in to a full side slip right to the ground and just kicked it straight
on touch down, as I was more than half way down the strip I went full power
and went around.  Observations from this were:
1) Rollout would have been very long with 20+ kts behind me
2) I have a belly board and I did not use it as there are no guarantees that
it would retract as I intended to go round.
3) If I hadn't gone full power it would have been messy, probably an
intentional ground loop just before the end fence.
4) With the belly board it would have been much better.

NOTE: Any manoeuvres near the ground, especially tight turns, require good
airspeed. What I did was a classic way to spin in as pilots will see the
ground rushing up at them in the steep turn and they try to stay away from
the ground instinctively and speed washes off and then its bad.  I practiced
this type of emergence at 400' AGL many times before getting near the
ground.

There is one statement that I really like.  "The more I practice, the
luckier I get" I hope that also applies to emergencies in the air.

Fly safe
Barry Kruyssen
Cairns, Australia
k...@bigpond.com
http://www.users.bigpond.com/kr2/kr2.htm


-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On Behalf
Of Mark Langford
Sent: Monday, 22 May 2006 5:02 AM
To: KRnet
Subject: Re: KR> engine outs

I did a flight test in my KR2S a few weeks ago to check the facts on
windmilling props and glide ratio. Two tests from 10,000' (one with engine
on, one with it off) proved to me that there is no appreciable difference in
glide rate between engine idling and engine off.  Engine off in a VW or
Corvair engine mean the prop is stopped, rather than windmilling, so that
may be the difference in KR "real world" and "conventional wisdom".  Short
props and high compression ratios keep the prop from windmilling when the
engine is off.  I did these tests because I wanted to know what my real
glide rate was (13.5:1 in present configuration) and because I wanted to
know if my glide rate would improve with the engine off.

Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama
see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML
"at" hiwaay.net 

KR> engine outs

[Barry Kruyssen]

 In my prior email I had the the following note in which I said 400' and
that should have been 4000':

NOTE: Any manoeuvres near the ground, especially tight turns, require good
airspeed. What I did was a classic way to spin in as pilots will see the
ground rushing up at them in the steep turn and they try to stay away from
the ground instinctively and speed washes off and then its bad.  I practiced
this type of emergence at 4000' AGL many times before getting near the
ground.

KR> engine outs

[John Martindale]

No Don

You must check stuff out better and not rely on memory. Mark's glide ratio 
is far better than the beasts you mention and the KR does not get bounced 
around significantly more since its wing loading at around 15lbs/square foot 
is comparable.

John Martindale
29 Jane Circuit
Toormina NSW 2452
AUSTRALIA

ph: 61 2 66584767
mobile: 0417 584767
email: johnja...@optusnet.com.au
web:  www.members.optusnet.com.au/johnjanet/Martindale.htm

- Original Message - 
From: "D F Lively" <riksh...@interl.net>
To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 12:33 PM
Subject: Re: KR> engine outs


> Mark:
>
> That glide ratio informationis valuable to me and gixes me some idea as to 
> what
> I can expect.  It seems to me if my memory serves me right that the glide 
> ratio
> is lower than the 172 or the early 150/160 hp 177s(Cardinals) and very 
> much a
> "Brick" compared to the 150's.  The 182s & up of course have lower glide 
> ratios
> with the 182's down in the 10:1 area if  I  remember well but since the 
> 182's
> are in the 2600 to 2800 MTOW area they do not get bounced about near as 
> much as
> a KR will.
>
> Don
>  
>
> Mark Langford wrote:
>
>> I did a flight test in my KR2S a few weeks ago to check the facts on
>> windmilling props and glide ratio. Two tests from 10,000' (one with 
>> engine
>> on, one with it off) proved to me that there is no appreciable difference 
>> in
>> glide rate between engine idling and engine off.  Engine off in a VW or
>> Corvair engine mean the prop is stopped, rather than windmilling, so that
>> may be the difference in KR "real world" and "conventional wisdom". 
>> Short
>> props and high compression ratios keep the prop from windmilling when the
>> engine is off.  I did these tests because I wanted to know what my real
>> glide rate was (13.5:1 in present configuration) and because I wanted to
>> know if my glide rate would improve with the engine off.
>>
>> Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama
>> see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford
>> email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net
>>
>> ___
>> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
>> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
>> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html