Re: [LEDE-DEV] [OpenWrt-Devel] openwrt and lede - remerge proposal V3

[John Crispin]

On 13/06/17 21:58, Florian Fainelli wrote:

On 05/28/2017 11:56 PM, John Crispin wrote:

Hi,

here is a V3 of the remerge proposal, I tried to fold all the comments
people made into it, if anything is missing let me know. Please remeber
that post remerge anything can be voted on, so cluttering the proposal
with many details will delay the remerge even more.

Ideally we manage to vote during this week.

ACK from me.

ACK from me also.

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Re: [LEDE-DEV] [OpenWrt-Devel] openwrt and lede - remerge proposal V3

[Florian Fainelli]

On 05/28/2017 11:56 PM, John Crispin wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> here is a V3 of the remerge proposal, I tried to fold all the comments
> people made into it, if anything is missing let me know. Please remeber
> that post remerge anything can be voted on, so cluttering the proposal
> with many details will delay the remerge even more.
> 
> Ideally we manage to vote during this week.

ACK from me.
-- 
Florian

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Re: [LEDE-DEV] [OpenWrt-Devel] openwrt and lede - remerge proposal V3

[Piotr Dymacz]

On 29.05.2017 09:03, John Crispin wrote:

(resend, this time as plain text)

Hi,

here is a V3 of the remerge proposal, I tried to fold all the comments
people made into it, if anything is missing let me know. Please remeber
that post remerge anything can be voted on, so cluttering the proposal
with many details will delay the remerge even more.

Ideally we manage to vote during this week.


ACK.

Thanks all involved for preparing the remerge proposal.

--
Cheers,
Piotr

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Re: [LEDE-DEV] [OpenWrt-Devel] openwrt and lede - remerge proposal V3

[Alexandru Ardelean]

On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 8:38 AM, Felix Fietkau  wrote:
> On 2017-05-29 09:03, John Crispin wrote:
>> (resend, this time as plain text)
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> here is a V3 of the remerge proposal, I tried to fold all the comments
>> people made into it, if anything is missing let me know. Please remeber
>> that post remerge anything can be voted on, so cluttering the proposal
>> with many details will delay the remerge even more.
>>
>> Ideally we manage to vote during this week.
> ACK.
>
> - Felix

ack

[forgot that GMail app does not support plain text mode, or is really
hidden somewhere ]

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Re: [LEDE-DEV] [OpenWrt-Devel] openwrt and lede - remerge proposal V3

[Rafał Miłecki]

On 29 May 2017 at 09:03, John Crispin  wrote:
> here is a V3 of the remerge proposal, I tried to fold all the comments
> people made into it, if anything is missing let me know. Please remeber that
> post remerge anything can be voted on, so cluttering the proposal with many
> details will delay the remerge even more.
>
> Ideally we manage to vote during this week.

Looks good

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Re: [LEDE-DEV] [OpenWrt-Devel] openwrt and lede - remerge proposal V3

[Hans Dedecker]

On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 9:03 AM, John Crispin  wrote:
> (resend, this time as plain text)
>
>
> Hi,
>
> here is a V3 of the remerge proposal, I tried to fold all the comments
> people made into it, if anything is missing let me know. Please remeber that
> post remerge anything can be voted on, so cluttering the proposal with many
> details will delay the remerge even more.
>
> Ideally we manage to vote during this week.
>
>
> John
>
> *) rules
> - owrt will adopt the lede rules and voting system
>
> *) branding
> - the owrt side sees no option of using the lede brand
> - a (minor) majority voted for openwrt as a name over lede whilst most
> people said they did not care
> - as the last vote had a 100% ACK for a remerge using the owrt brand is the
> only feasible option
>
> *) domain
> - transfer owner ship to SPI for openwrt.org and lede-project.org
> - add them to the pool of urls at digital ocean
> - post remerge build a setup where we have several DNS servers in various
> locations
> - point git.openwrt.org at the lede git server
> - point bugs.openwrt.org to the lede flyspray instance
> - keep both wikis and forums as is (we should decide post remerge how to
> proceed to avoid these issues blocking the progress)
> - update the lede domain entries for build/download/rsync/... servers so
> that the openwrt domain also points at them
>
> *) SPI
> - nominate a new liaison team (imre and john offer to do this, if anyone
> else is interested let us know)
> - inform SPI of the new liaisons, voters and project rules
> - this should be done early in the remerge process s.t. the domains can be
> handed over
>
> *) github
> - start pushing to the openwrt organisation
> - cleanup the list of owners in the openwrt organisation
> - obsolete all issues on the openwrt organisation and close the issue
> tracker
> - go through the open openwrt and lede PRs, pickup whats useful and close
> the rest, asking people to repost (things wont be rebasable anyhow)
> - close the lede PR tracker
> - obsolete the lede github org after a grace period of 3-6 months
>
> *) landing page
> - add a letter of intent / notice to both current landing pages announcing
> the remerge
> - update the lede landing page to represent the openwrt name
> - update the landing page to have the same look & feel as the current
> openwrt landing page
> - point openwrt.org at the lede landing page
> - try to find some design guru that will transform the owrt theme to one
> appropriate to this century
>
> *) trac
> - trac is already readonly, keep content so that search engines can still
> find the it
> - edit the trac html templates, adding a note pointing at the
> bug.openwrt.org instance
>
> *) IRC
> - add back cloaking
> - give people channel ownership/admin rights
>
> *) email accounts
> - currently there are around ~20 active openwrt.org mail accounts (the 3
> owrt devs would like to keep theirs active)
> - turn all the webmaster@, hostmaster@, ... accounts into aliases that
> anyone with voting rights can be subscribed to
> - ask those people that are no longer active to voluntarily give up their
> accounts
> - mail addresses may under no conditions be used for any personal business,
> consultancy, applying for jobs, ... purposes
> - any mail sent from an openwrt.org account needs to adhere the trademark
> policy and should only be used for FOSS purposes
>
> *) wiki / forum
> - TBD
> - asking in either forum/wiki will get a biased vote so keep them both
> around
> - start a separate discussion regarding these post remerge
>
> *) LF
> - find out what doubts folks have about LF
> - find out benefits - we would have their hosting and sponsorship ?!
> - start a separate discussion regarding these post remerge
>
> *) git trees
> - rebrand the lede tree to openwrt
> - work out what has happened inside the openwrt tree since the reboot and
> pick up the useful bits (zoltan has done some prior work on this already)
>
> *) mailing list
> - ask david to add the openwrt-adm and openwrt lists
> - send out invitation mails to the new list
> - setup redirect/auto-reply for the existing lists
>
> *) trademark policy
> - review/ack imres trademark policy (https://openwrt.org/trademark)
>
> *) timeline
> - vote / agree on the proposal within the next week
Ack from my side on all the listed items

Thx for compiling the list John

Hans
> - work on the action items in the 4 weeks after that
>
> John
>
>
>
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Re: [LEDE-DEV] [OpenWrt-Devel] openwrt and lede - remerge proposal V3

[Daniel Golle]

On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 09:03:57AM +0200, John Crispin wrote:
> (resend, this time as plain text)
> 
> Hi,
> 
> here is a V3 of the remerge proposal, I tried to fold all the comments
> people made into it, if anything is missing let me know. Please remeber that
> post remerge anything can be voted on, so cluttering the proposal with many
> details will delay the remerge even more.
> 
> Ideally we manage to vote during this week.

+1 ACK

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Re: [LEDE-DEV] [OpenWrt-Devel] openwrt and lede - remerge proposal V3

[Stijn Tintel]

On 29-05-17 09:03, John Crispin wrote:
> (resend, this time as plain text)
>
> Hi,
>
> here is a V3 of the remerge proposal, I tried to fold all the comments
> people made into it, if anything is missing let me know. Please
> remeber that post remerge anything can be voted on, so cluttering the
> proposal with many details will delay the remerge even more.
>
> Ideally we manage to vote during this week.
>
Full ACK from me.

Thanks,
Stijn

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Re: [LEDE-DEV] [OpenWrt-Devel] openwrt and lede - remerge proposal V2

[John Crispin]

On 24/05/17 10:13, Paul Oranje wrote:

Who are/will be entitled to an [IRC] project cloak ?
Paul
people with voting rights and probably also regular contributors ... 
that is however unrelated to the remerge discussion and would fall under 
the normal voting system





Op 22 mei 2017, om 19:11 heeft Imre Kaloz  het volgende 
geschreven:

Hi,

On 2017-05-22 03:10, John Crispin wrote:


On 22/05/17 11:02, Rafał Miłecki wrote:

On 05/22/2017 09:40 AM, John Crispin wrote:

*) branding
- the owrt side sees no option of using the lede brand
- a (minor) majority voted for openwrt as a name over lede whilst most people 
said they did not care
- as the last vote had a 100% ACK for a remerge using the owrt brand is the 
only feasible option

Since the project is going to be known/accessible under OpenWrt name now, I
want also mbm and Kaloz to share #openwrt and #openwrt-devel privileges.

There were many times op was needed but mbm/Kaloz weren't around.

I was refused/ignored multiple times when asking for that, so I wanted to
bring it as this point to be clear. Is that OK for you guys?


i'll add it to V3

Sorry Rafal, don't get me wrong but this isn't true. It might haven't been 
documented well (like quite a few things) but you have been told years ago: 
everyone who has a project cloak has access to everything. What have been 
refused is to make a special exception just for you to get it without that.


Imre

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Re: [LEDE-DEV] [OpenWrt-Devel] openwrt and lede - remerge proposal V2

[Paul Oranje]

Who are/will be entitled to an [IRC] project cloak ?
Paul

> Op 22 mei 2017, om 19:11 heeft Imre Kaloz  het volgende 
> geschreven:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> On 2017-05-22 03:10, John Crispin wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> On 22/05/17 11:02, Rafał Miłecki wrote:
>>> On 05/22/2017 09:40 AM, John Crispin wrote:
 *) branding
 - the owrt side sees no option of using the lede brand
 - a (minor) majority voted for openwrt as a name over lede whilst most 
 people said they did not care
 - as the last vote had a 100% ACK for a remerge using the owrt brand is 
 the only feasible option
>>> 
>>> Since the project is going to be known/accessible under OpenWrt name now, I
>>> want also mbm and Kaloz to share #openwrt and #openwrt-devel privileges.
>>> 
>>> There were many times op was needed but mbm/Kaloz weren't around.
>>> 
>>> I was refused/ignored multiple times when asking for that, so I wanted to
>>> bring it as this point to be clear. Is that OK for you guys?
>>> 
>> i'll add it to V3
> Sorry Rafal, don't get me wrong but this isn't true. It might haven't been 
> documented well (like quite a few things) but you have been told years ago: 
> everyone who has a project cloak has access to everything. What have been 
> refused is to make a special exception just for you to get it without that.
> 
> 
> Imre
> 
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Re: [LEDE-DEV] [OpenWrt-Devel] openwrt and lede - remerge proposal V2

[John Crispin]

On 23/05/17 17:29, Zoltan HERPAI wrote:

Hi John,

John Crispin wrote:
here is a V2 of the remerge proposal, I tried to fold all the 
comments people made into it, if anything is missing let me know.

[snip]

Please let us know when you'll start a final vote on this proposal, or 
if you want to wait a few days if anything bumps in for a V3. I'm OK 
with this, thanks for putting it together.


Thanks,
Zoltan H

i plan to send a V3 later today or early tomorrow. i hope that we can 
vote on V3 and get things moving


John

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Re: [LEDE-DEV] [OpenWrt-Devel] openwrt and lede - remerge proposal V2

[Zoltan HERPAI]

Hi John,

John Crispin wrote:
here is a V2 of the remerge proposal, I tried to fold all the comments 
people made into it, if anything is missing let me know.

[snip]

Please let us know when you'll start a final vote on this proposal, or 
if you want to wait a few days if anything bumps in for a V3. I'm OK 
with this, thanks for putting it together.


Thanks,
Zoltan H


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Re: [LEDE-DEV] [OpenWrt-Devel] openwrt and lede - remerge proposal V2

[Imre Kaloz]

Hi,

On 2017-05-22 03:10, John Crispin wrote:



On 22/05/17 11:02, Rafał Miłecki wrote:

On 05/22/2017 09:40 AM, John Crispin wrote:

*) branding
- the owrt side sees no option of using the lede brand
- a (minor) majority voted for openwrt as a name over lede whilst 
most people said they did not care
- as the last vote had a 100% ACK for a remerge using the owrt brand 
is the only feasible option


Since the project is going to be known/accessible under OpenWrt name 
now, I

want also mbm and Kaloz to share #openwrt and #openwrt-devel privileges.

There were many times op was needed but mbm/Kaloz weren't around.

I was refused/ignored multiple times when asking for that, so I 
wanted to

bring it as this point to be clear. Is that OK for you guys?


i'll add it to V3
Sorry Rafal, don't get me wrong but this isn't true. It might haven't 
been documented well (like quite a few things) but you have been told 
years ago: everyone who has a project cloak has access to everything. 
What have been refused is to make a special exception just for you to 
get it without that.



Imre

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Re: [LEDE-DEV] [OpenWrt-Devel] openwrt and lede - remerge proposal V2

[Florian Fainelli]

On 05/22/2017 02:02 AM, Rafał Miłecki wrote:
> On 05/22/2017 09:40 AM, John Crispin wrote:
>> *) branding
>> - the owrt side sees no option of using the lede brand
>> - a (minor) majority voted for openwrt as a name over lede whilst most
>> people said they did not care
>> - as the last vote had a 100% ACK for a remerge using the owrt brand
>> is the only feasible option
> 
> Since the project is going to be known/accessible under OpenWrt name now, I
> want also mbm and Kaloz to share #openwrt and #openwrt-devel privileges.
> 
> There were many times op was needed but mbm/Kaloz weren't around.
> 
> I was refused/ignored multiple times when asking for that, so I wanted to
> bring it as this point to be clear. Is that OK for you guys?

Yes that's fine, while your channel operator status is worked on, if
there is something specific you can private message me on IRC and I get
be op on these two channels for a little bit to do what is necessary.

Thanks!
-- 
Florian

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Re: [LEDE-DEV] [OpenWrt-Devel] openwrt and lede - remerge proposal V2

[John Crispin]

On 22/05/17 11:39, Vincenzo Romano wrote:

I also agree to everything.
With am extra point.

2017-05-22 11:18 GMT+02:00 tapper :

*) SPI
- nominate a new liaison team (imre and john offer to do this, if anyone
else is interested let us know)
- inform SPI of the new liaisons, voters and project rules
- this should be done early in the remerge process s.t. the domains can be
handed over

There needs a way to be able to enlarge that team at any time by vote.
And expunging a member out should be subjected to a vote too.

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covered by the lede rules that will become the new owrt rules.

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Re: [LEDE-DEV] [OpenWrt-Devel] openwrt and lede - remerge proposal V2

[John Crispin]

On 22/05/17 11:02, Rafał Miłecki wrote:

On 05/22/2017 09:40 AM, John Crispin wrote:

*) branding
- the owrt side sees no option of using the lede brand
- a (minor) majority voted for openwrt as a name over lede whilst 
most people said they did not care
- as the last vote had a 100% ACK for a remerge using the owrt brand 
is the only feasible option


Since the project is going to be known/accessible under OpenWrt name 
now, I

want also mbm and Kaloz to share #openwrt and #openwrt-devel privileges.

There were many times op was needed but mbm/Kaloz weren't around.

I was refused/ignored multiple times when asking for that, so I wanted to
bring it as this point to be clear. Is that OK for you guys?


i'll add it to V3


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Re: [LEDE-DEV] [OpenWrt-Devel] openwrt and lede - remerge proposal V2

[Vincenzo Romano]

I also agree to everything.
With am extra point.

2017-05-22 11:18 GMT+02:00 tapper :
>> *) SPI
>> - nominate a new liaison team (imre and john offer to do this, if anyone
>> else is interested let us know)
>> - inform SPI of the new liaisons, voters and project rules
>> - this should be done early in the remerge process s.t. the domains can be
>> handed over

There needs a way to be able to enlarge that team at any time by vote.
And expunging a member out should be subjected to a vote too.

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Re: [LEDE-DEV] [OpenWrt-Devel] openwrt and lede - remerge proposal V2

[tapper]

Sounds good to me!

On 22/05/2017 08:40, John Crispin wrote:

Hi,

here is a V2 of the remerge proposal, I tried to fold all the comments 
people made into it, if anything is missing let me know.



 John

*) branding
- the owrt side sees no option of using the lede brand
- a (minor) majority voted for openwrt as a name over lede whilst most 
people said they did not care
- as the last vote had a 100% ACK for a remerge using the owrt brand is 
the only feasible option


*) domain
- transfer owner ship to SPI for openwrt.org and lede-project.org
- add them to the pool of urls at digital ocean
- post remerge build a setup where we have several DNS servers in 
various locations

- point git.openwrt.org at the lede git server
- point bugs.openwrt.org to the lede flyspray instance
- keep both wikis and forums as is (we should decide post remerge how to 
proceed to avoid these issues blocking the progress)
- update the lede domain entries for build/download/rsync/... servers so 
that the openwrt domain also points at them


*) SPI
- nominate a new liaison team (imre and john offer to do this, if anyone 
else is interested let us know)

- inform SPI of the new liaisons, voters and project rules
- this should be done early in the remerge process s.t. the domains can 
be handed over


*) github
- start pushing to the openwrt organisation
- cleanup the list of owners in the openwrt organisation
- obsolete all issues on the openwrt organisation and close the issue 
tracker
- go through the open openwrt and lede PRs, pickup whats useful and 
close the rest, asking people to repost (things wont be rebasable anyhow)

- close the lede PR tracker
- obsolete the lede github org after a grace period of 3-6 months

*) landing page
- add a letter of intent / notice to both current landing pages 
announcing the remerge

- update the lede landing page to represent the openwrt name
- update the landing page to have the same look & feel as the current 
openwrt landing page

- point openwrt.org at the lede landing page
- try to find some design guru that will transform the owrt theme to one 
appropriate to this century


*) trac
- trac is already readonly, keep content so that search engines can 
still find the it
- edit the trac html templates, adding a note pointing at the 
bug.openwrt.org instance


*) email accounts
- currently there are around ~20 active openwrt.org mail accounts (the 3 
owrt devs would like to keep theirs active)
- turn all the webmaster@, hostmaster@, ... accounts into aliases that 
anyone with voting rights can be subscribed to
- ask those people that are no longer active to voluntarily give up 
their accounts
- mail addresses may under no conditions be used for any personal 
business, consultancy, applying for jobs, ... purposes
- any mail sent from an openwrt.org account needs to adhere the 
trademark policy and should only be used for FOSS purposes


*) wiki / forum
- TBD
- asking in either forum/wiki will get a biased vote so keep them both 
around

- start a separate discussion regarding these post remerge

*) LF
- find out what doubts folks have about LF
- find out benefits - we would have their hosting and sponsorship ?!
- start a separate discussion regarding these post remerge

*) git trees
- rebrand the lede tree to openwrt
- work out what has happened inside the openwrt tree since the reboot 
and pick up the useful bits (zoltan has done some prior work on this 
already)


*) mailing list
- ask david to add the openwrt-adm and openwrt lists
- send out invitation mails to the new list
- setup redirect/auto-reply for the existing lists

*) trademark/sponsorship policy
- review/ack imres trademark policy (https://openwrt.org/trademark)
- review/ack jows sponsorship policy (link pending)

*) timeline
- vote / agree on the proposal within the next week
- work on the action items in the 4 weeks after that

 John
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Re: [LEDE-DEV] [OpenWrt-Devel] openwrt and lede - remerge proposal V2

[Rafał Miłecki]

On 05/22/2017 09:40 AM, John Crispin wrote:

*) branding
- the owrt side sees no option of using the lede brand
- a (minor) majority voted for openwrt as a name over lede whilst most people 
said they did not care
- as the last vote had a 100% ACK for a remerge using the owrt brand is the 
only feasible option


Since the project is going to be known/accessible under OpenWrt name now, I
want also mbm and Kaloz to share #openwrt and #openwrt-devel privileges.

There were many times op was needed but mbm/Kaloz weren't around.

I was refused/ignored multiple times when asking for that, so I wanted to
bring it as this point to be clear. Is that OK for you guys?

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Re: [LEDE-DEV] [OpenWrt-Devel] openwrt and lede - remerge proposal

[Philip Prindeville]

> On May 11, 2017, at 1:06 PM, Philip Prindeville 
>  wrote:
> 
> Yeah, I have to agree with this.  You don’t get married, then define your 
> vows afterwards…

Actually, sticking with the “marriage” paradigm a bit longer, what are the 
assets that the OpenWRT family brings to the union?  And what does LEDE bring 
to the union?

Maybe voting rights should be proportional to the assets brought to the table…  
like in a corporate merger or acquisition.

-Philip


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Re: [LEDE-DEV] [OpenWrt-Devel] openwrt and lede - remerge proposal

[Stijn Segers]

Thanks for the reply Imre.

Imre Kaloz schreef op 2017-05-11 15:13:

Well hello there,

On 2017-05-11 12:53, Stijn Segers wrote:



While, like most people, I'm happy progress has been made towards a
re-merge, there still seems quite some passive-agressive behaviour
present coming from certain people championing OpenWrt [1] - which, 
from

where I stand, seemed one of the reasons for starting LEDE. Stifling
'free' speech (recently, even to the point of removing messages about
the pending re-merge on the OpenWrt forums) was another one; clearly,
that one is still very much present as well. One could say old habits
die hard, but it still feels like par for the course. What's up with
that? You want to remerge with the LEDE project, yet you cannot 
tolerate

any discussion about the actual process on the OpenWrt forums? That's
some fine duplicity right there.


I guess our vocabularies differ quite a bit, given I see no
passive-aggressive statements there.


Well, the 'Our design might be from 2000 but LEDE's is from 95' does 
come across as agressive, and the wink certainly doesn't make it any 
lighter. But you're right, I might just be reading into it. Either way, 
I have seen your mails right after the split as well, granted, your tone 
is more constructive at the moment, which is great. But those mails were 
full of anger, like a bull in a china shop, or a kid losing his toy.



I hope you just misunderstood the
ways some things have been worded, as your mail overemphasized certain
parts to twist the picture. I could very well say you're championing
yourself but somehow I don't see mails from you sent to any lists nor
me about questioning the forum moderators' behavior. Of course you
could have also stepped up and volunteer to be one, but either of
these would have required more energy then this mail.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not questioning if you're right, but you
should also be a bit more empathetic and understand a few things.

First of all, forum moderator rights have been given out as we didn't
have time to do it ourselves. This also means that after the first few
days we didn't spend our time on monitoring what people with moderator
rights are doing.


Understandably. But you also know that if people go berserk, that gives 
the project as a whole a bad name. It only further deteriorated the 
atmosphere. Some LEDE members hoped the OpenWrt forum would have been 
more welcoming to the project in the short term, since LEDE members from 
the onset made it clear that they did not intend to divide the 
community; but that didn't work out. But like you say: we're just human 
after all, and good intentions often aren't enough.




Second, and this might be harder to accept, but to a certain degree
when the first reply to anything is "OpenWrt is dead, go with LEDE",
your behavior might generate a hostile reply.


A statement a lot of people certainly fielded, but I'm not one to say 
that. Yet, you cannot deny between LEDE and OpenWrt, since the split, 
the latter has been showing a considerably weaker pulse.



Again, I'm not saying
this is right, I'm saying this is standard human behavior.

Back to my reply you love referring to: for me it seems you are the
one who can't tolerate the discussion and would like to silence
opinions (or how they can be expressed) you don't like. You might
prefer baroque, I'm free to like renaissance.


Pointing the finger the other way does not invalidate my observations in 
any way, unfortunately.





I can't help but feel very uneasy about this. I'm not implying people
who stuck with OpenWrt don't want the best for the project and 
community
(most do), but we all know LEDE was created to remedy exactly these 
(and

other) shortcomings, which made OpenWrt languish to the point it had
come to a standstill. Not only did LEDE try to tackle these problems; 
it

has succeeded beyond expectation. Developers are more accessible, you
can actually talk to people instead of getting your head bit off,
contributions are booming, and the atmosphere overall is friendly and
helpful. Discussion is encouraged, not repressed Soviet-style.


The reasons of the fork have been discussed quite a few times, and if
you think any project will be free of internal politics over a decade,
you might want to look into the history of FOSS projects in general :)



I might be a bit naive, indeed :).


As the rest of your mail is mostly FUD,


No doubt, just like the lethargy was all make believe, right? Two mails 
in, but it won't be long before we get into a Godwin here, I reckon.



let's stick to facts if you consider replying.


I asked about the facts - the final tally on the most contentious issue 
- and I'm not finding that fact. We both know that was the major issue 
at hand, one of the few non-negotiable items for you (and maybe other 
people). I see the vote go from a tie to 'we'll go with the OpenWrt 
monniker again', yet I cannot find a trace of how that happened. Quite 
possible I overlooked 

Re: [LEDE-DEV] [OpenWrt-Devel] openwrt and lede - remerge proposal

[Hauke Mehrtens]

On 05/09/2017 10:12 AM, Hans Dedecker wrote:
> On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 9:50 AM, John Crispin  wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 09/05/17 09:49, Rafał Miłecki wrote:
>>>
>>> On 8 May 2017 at 15:19, John Crispin  wrote:

 *) domain
 - transfer owner ship to SPI for openwrt.org and lede-project.org
 (...)

 *) SPI
 - TBD post remerge
>>>
>>> This is unclear to me. Are we postponing setting rules with SPI on how
>>> they should manage domains? I guess it should be handled at the same
>>> time: specifying rules (majority of votes?) and handling domains.
>>
>> SPi will need a new liaison officer (team). we need to vote on who this will
>> be. apart from that SPI will be pointed at the wiki page listing voters and
>> rules. domains will be handed over to them
> SPI offers different services to projects like accepting donations and
> holding funds, legal assistance, technical services, etc ... Apart
> from handing over the domains do we want to make use of any of the
> services offered by SPI ?
> 
> Further nice to read we convergence again; thx for the effort !

I would like if we take the same services as OpenWrt did in the past
from SPI (Software in the Public Interest) + the DNS / Domain service as
mentioned in this mail.

* SPI holds the OpenWrt trademark for the OpenWrt project
* SPI accepts donations for the OpenWrt project (incl. tax reduction)
* SPI manages the OpenWrt "bank" account
* SPI gave legal advice for the trademark and will help on other topics

OpenWrt had 6040.14 USD in the account at SPI by 1.1.2017, 1621.13 USD
were donated to OpenWrt in the year 2016:
http://www.spi-inc.org/treasurer/reports/201612/#index58h4

In my opinion SPI did a good job and did everything we asked them for
and did not try to take over the project or something like this. ;-)
From my understanding no one has a problem with the SPI, but some people
are a reluctant against some of the other organizations.

We need a new representation at the SPI and should vote about it.

Hauke

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Re: [LEDE-DEV] [OpenWrt-Devel] openwrt and lede - remerge proposal

[Thomas Endt]

> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: openwrt-devel [mailto:openwrt-devel-boun...@lists.openwrt.org] Im
> Auftrag von Imre Kaloz
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 10. Mai 2017 11:36
> 
> On 2017-05-09 18:29, Philip Prindeville wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> > I’d like to suggest one more action item to this list if I can.  It
> would be handy to have a single database for user
> authentication/identification for submitting bugs, editing the Wiki,
> etc.
> >
> > Previously there were too many places where you had to create an
> account.  If we can’t do “single sign-on”, can we at least do “single
> sign-up”?
> >
> > And part of a user’s profile should include their IRC handle
> (assuming they have one).
> 
> I agree, SSO would be way more user friendly. We should look into it
> for sure.


The LEDE wiki and LEDE forum currently offer login via github. Others are 
possible, e.g. Auth0, Google, Doorkeeper, Keycloak, ...

Thomas


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Re: [LEDE-DEV] [OpenWrt-Devel] openwrt and lede - remerge proposal

[Yousong Zhou]

So many items to vote and work on.  I would suggest we sort out those
formal things first, e.g. project rules, umbrella project etc.  I do
not know much about the past history apart from those posts in the
public mailing list.  But if these formal things were the major cause
of the split in the first place, they should be put forward and
tackled first.

Those technical ones are relatively easy for us I guess and not that
urgent anyway because we already have one infrastructure up and
running (not bad and I guess you will also agree) and the other one in
quiescent state for quite a while now.  From what I see it's mostly
just about how to do the name change...

my two cents

Regards,
yousong


On 8 May 2017 at 21:19, John Crispin  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Felix, Imre and myself had 2 calls last week lasting several hours and
> discussed the following proposal of conditions for a remerge that we would
> like to propose and have people vote on.
>
> *) branding
> - the owrt side sees no option of using the lede brand
>
> - a (minor) majority voted for openwrt as a name over lede whilst most
> people said they did not care
>
> - as the last vote had a 100% ACK for a remerge using the owrt brand is the
> only feasible option
>
> *) domain
> - transfer owner ship to SPI for openwrt.org and lede-project.org
> - add them to the pool of urls at digital ocean
> - post remerge build a setup where we have several DNS servers in various
> locations
> - point git.openwrt.org at the lede git server
> - point bugs.openwrt.org to the lede flyspray instance
> - keep both wikis and forums as is (we should decide post remerge how to
> proceed to avoid these issues blocking the progress)
> - update the lede domain entries for build/download/rsync/... servers so
> that the openwrt domain also points at them
>
> *) SPI
> - TBD post remerge
>
> *) github
> - stop pushing to lede-project organisation
> - start pushing to the openwrt organisation
> - cleanup the list of owners in the openwrt organisation
> - obsolete all issues on the openwrt organisation and close the issue
> tracker
> - go through the open openwrt and lede PRs, pickup whats useful and close
> the rest, asking people to repost (things wont be rebasable anyhow)
> - close the lede PR tracker
> - keep the lede organisation in its current state so that forked trees dont
> get obsoleted
>
> - obsolete the lede github org after a grace period of 3-6 months
>
> *) landing page
> - update the lede landing page to represent the openwrt name
> - update the landing page to have the same look & feel as the current
> openwrt landing page
> - point openwrt.org at the lede landing page
>
> *) trac
> - trac is already readonly, keep content so that search engines can still
> find the it
> - edit the trac html templates, adding a note pointing at the
> bug.openwrt.org instance
>
> *) email accounts
> - currently there are around ~20 active openwrt.org mail accounts
> - turn all the webmaster@, hostmaster@, ... accounts into aliases that
> anyone with voting rights can be subscribed to
> - ask those people that are no longer active to voluntarily give up their
> accounts
> - mail addresses may under no conditions be used for any personal business,
> consultancy, applying for jobs, ... purposes
>
> - any mail sent from an openwrt.org account needs to adhere the trademark
> policy and should only be used for FOSS purposes
>
>
> *) wiki / forum
> - TBD
> - asking in either forum/wiki will get a biased vote so keep them both
> around
> - start a separate discussion regarding these post remerge
>
> *) LF
> - find out what doubts folks have about LF
> - find out benefits - we would have their hosting and sponsorship ?!
> - start a separate discussion regarding these post remerge
>
> *) git trees
> - rebrand the lede tree to openwrt
> - work out what has happened inside the openwrt tree since the reboot and
> pick up the useful bits (zoltan has done some prior work on this already)
>
> *) mailing list
> - ask david to add the openwrt-adm and openwrt lists
> - announce the switch to the infradead serves, asking people to unsubscribe
> if they have privacy issues with this
> - import the user DB from the current openwrt and lede ML into the 2 new
> mailing lists
> - find out if we can redirect/auto-reply  the existing lists to the new ones
>
> *) trademark/sponsorship policy
> - review/ack imres trademark policy
> - review/ack jows sponsorship policy
>
> *) timeline
> - refine / vote / agree on the proposal withing the next 2 week
> - work on the action items in the 4 weeks after that
>
> John
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Re: [LEDE-DEV] [OpenWrt-Devel] openwrt and lede - remerge proposal

[Florian Fainelli]

On 05/08/2017 06:19 AM, John Crispin wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Felix, Imre and myself had 2 calls last week lasting several hours and
> discussed the following proposal of conditions for a remerge that we
> would like to propose and have people vote on.
> 
> *) branding
> - the owrt side sees no option of using the lede brand
> 
> - a (minor) majority voted for openwrt as a name over lede whilst most
> people said they did not care
> 
> - as the last vote had a 100% ACK for a remerge using the owrt brand is
> the only feasible option
> 
> *) domain
> - transfer owner ship to SPI for openwrt.org and lede-project.org
> - add them to the pool of urls at digital ocean
> - post remerge build a setup where we have several DNS servers in
> various locations
> - point git.openwrt.org at the lede git server
> - point bugs.openwrt.org to the lede flyspray instance
> - keep both wikis and forums as is (we should decide post remerge how to
> proceed to avoid these issues blocking the progress)
> - update the lede domain entries for build/download/rsync/... servers so
> that the openwrt domain also points at them
> 
> *) SPI
> - TBD post remerge
> 
> *) github
> - stop pushing to lede-project organisation
> - start pushing to the openwrt organisation
> - cleanup the list of owners in the openwrt organisation
> - obsolete all issues on the openwrt organisation and close the issue
> tracker
> - go through the open openwrt and lede PRs, pickup whats useful and
> close the rest, asking people to repost (things wont be rebasable anyhow)
> - close the lede PR tracker
> - keep the lede organisation in its current state so that forked trees
> dont get obsoleted
> 
> - obsolete the lede github org after a grace period of 3-6 months
> 
> *) landing page
> - update the lede landing page to represent the openwrt name
> - update the landing page to have the same look & feel as the current
> openwrt landing page
> - point openwrt.org at the lede landing page
> 
> *) trac
> - trac is already readonly, keep content so that search engines can
> still find the it
> - edit the trac html templates, adding a note pointing at the
> bug.openwrt.org instance
> 
> *) email accounts
> - currently there are around ~20 active openwrt.org mail accounts
> - turn all the webmaster@, hostmaster@, ... accounts into aliases that
> anyone with voting rights can be subscribed to
> - ask those people that are no longer active to voluntarily give up
> their accounts
> - mail addresses may under no conditions be used for any personal
> business, consultancy, applying for jobs, ... purposes
> 
> - any mail sent from an openwrt.org account needs to adhere the
> trademark policy and should only be used for FOSS purposes
> 
> 
> *) wiki / forum
> - TBD
> - asking in either forum/wiki will get a biased vote so keep them both
> around
> - start a separate discussion regarding these post remerge
> 
> *) LF
> - find out what doubts folks have about LF
> - find out benefits - we would have their hosting and sponsorship ?!
> - start a separate discussion regarding these post remerge
> 
> *) git trees
> - rebrand the lede tree to openwrt
> - work out what has happened inside the openwrt tree since the reboot
> and pick up the useful bits (zoltan has done some prior work on this
> already)
> 
> *) mailing list
> - ask david to add the openwrt-adm and openwrt lists
> - announce the switch to the infradead serves, asking people to
> unsubscribe if they have privacy issues with this
> - import the user DB from the current openwrt and lede ML into the 2 new
> mailing lists
> - find out if we can redirect/auto-reply  the existing lists to the new
> ones
> 
> *) trademark/sponsorship policy
> - review/ack imres trademark policy
> - review/ack jows sponsorship policy
> 
> *) timeline
> - refine / vote / agree on the proposal withing the next 2 week
> - work on the action items in the 4 weeks after that

All of this sounds good me, and thanks for taking the time to talk to
each other and come to an agreement.

How can we help?
-- 
Florian

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Re: [LEDE-DEV] [OpenWrt-Devel] openwrt and lede - remerge proposal

[Hans Dedecker]

On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 9:50 AM, John Crispin  wrote:
>
>
> On 09/05/17 09:49, Rafał Miłecki wrote:
>>
>> On 8 May 2017 at 15:19, John Crispin  wrote:
>>>
>>> *) domain
>>> - transfer owner ship to SPI for openwrt.org and lede-project.org
>>> (...)
>>>
>>> *) SPI
>>> - TBD post remerge
>>
>> This is unclear to me. Are we postponing setting rules with SPI on how
>> they should manage domains? I guess it should be handled at the same
>> time: specifying rules (majority of votes?) and handling domains.
>
> SPi will need a new liaison officer (team). we need to vote on who this will
> be. apart from that SPI will be pointed at the wiki page listing voters and
> rules. domains will be handed over to them
SPI offers different services to projects like accepting donations and
holding funds, legal assistance, technical services, etc ... Apart
from handing over the domains do we want to make use of any of the
services offered by SPI ?

Further nice to read we convergence again; thx for the effort !

Hans
>
> John
>
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Re: [LEDE-DEV] [OpenWrt-Devel] openwrt and lede - remerge proposal

[John Crispin]

On 09/05/17 09:49, Rafał Miłecki wrote:

On 8 May 2017 at 15:19, John Crispin  wrote:

*) domain
- transfer owner ship to SPI for openwrt.org and lede-project.org
(...)

*) SPI
- TBD post remerge

This is unclear to me. Are we postponing setting rules with SPI on how
they should manage domains? I guess it should be handled at the same
time: specifying rules (majority of votes?) and handling domains.
SPi will need a new liaison officer (team). we need to vote on who this 
will be. apart from that SPI will be pointed at the wiki page listing 
voters and rules. domains will be handed over to them


John

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Re: [LEDE-DEV] [OpenWrt-Devel] openwrt and lede - remerge proposal

[Rafał Miłecki]

On 8 May 2017 at 15:19, John Crispin  wrote:
> *) domain
> - transfer owner ship to SPI for openwrt.org and lede-project.org
> (...)
>
> *) SPI
> - TBD post remerge

This is unclear to me. Are we postponing setting rules with SPI on how
they should manage domains? I guess it should be handled at the same
time: specifying rules (majority of votes?) and handling domains.

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Re: [LEDE-DEV] [OpenWrt-Devel] openwrt and lede - remerge proposal

[Daniel Golle]

On Mon, May 08, 2017 at 09:19:42PM +0200, Zoltan HERPAI wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On Mon, 8 May 2017, Daniel Engberg wrote:
> 
> > Trac:
> > Is it really worth keeping trac at all? What value does it add? Just
> > display a page explaining that it's shutdown and forward to OpenWrt?
> 
> There is a lot of "added value" in the tickets submitted throughout the
> years, either as comments, notes, fixes or just the issue being raised, so
> it's a good idea to keep it for archiving purposes. Older devices do die,
> but every year or so I come across shops selling brand new WRT54G (really),
> so keeping the knowledge base in an unsorted form (compared to a wiki) to
> the users can be useful. Whether that's a staticized archive or running the
> trac engine itself is another question.

I agree that there are a lot of references to dev.openwrt.org which
should remain intact. A non-interactive version would imho be
sufficient, tickets which are actually still relevant should be
re-opened on bugs.lede-project.org (which will become bugs.openwrt.org)
A grace period of 1 month starting from the notification until the
service is being shutdown (or archived read-only) would also be nice.

> 
> Other than that, I very much welcome the groundwork for the planned merge -
> thanks John, Imre and Felix for putting it together.

I agree. Thanks a lot for all the work done, this is great progress!


Cheers


Daniel

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