Re: [LU] non LU AV
The fact all libdems are for it should tell you more. Here is my view on it all; 1. It is more complicated, therefore will be more expensive to administer. Government already costs too much. 2. It is more representative as the winner would need 50% of the vote. Total bollocks. Consider this scenario. First round vote Labour 49%, Conservative 49%, Libdem 2%. Second choice for all conservative/labour voters = libdem as they don't want the other lot in. Libdem get voted in despite only 2% actually wanting them in originally. 3. It makes our mps work harder. What? If the constituency is a 'normal' town, you will have a set amount of died in the wool party voters, lets say 25% labour, 25% tory, 15% libdem. It doesn't matter what the mp for that place does, those 50% others will not vote for them regardless, and most vote for the colour, not local issues. I don't want my MP spending half his term going round trying to woo concessions out of voters, I want them to be representing me in parliament. If they aren't concentrated on that then lets get rid of all MPs and be done with it. I understand the libdem desire for PR, and that makes sense democratically however impractical it actually is. AV however is NOT PR, and not even a step on the road to PR. A situation where an MP is not elected despite getting 49% of the popular vote, where all the others only get 15% each max but 51% amongst them is not more representative. A situation where some numbskull who votes BNP can influence/decide the local MP on their second vote is equally objectionable. Apart from anything else, why do they get 2 votes, and the rest of us just 1? Put it in football terms, teams wouldn't get promoted based on league position, they would get promoted based on points gained compared with all the other teams in the league. So Leeds finish second in the league next season, on goal difference vs Cardiff (wouldn't that be sweet!), but we don't get promoted because we need to finish at least 5 points ahead of 3rd place. It was a NO for me! -Original Message- From: leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org [mailto:leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org] On Behalf Of Simon Hart Sent: 29 April 2011 00:21 To: 'Damian Walsh'; 'leedslist' Subject: Re: [LU] non LU AV It appears all the politicians are against it, which tells me it must be a good thing. Si. -Original Message- From: leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org [mailto:leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org] On Behalf Of Damian Walsh Sent: 28 April 2011 23:25 To: leedslist Subject: [LU] non LU AV I know that the list was neutered a long time ago and LPC sensibilities means we can only openly discuss RW's will he _ wont he homoerotic love-in with our Argy striker. But I actually enjoyed those heady days when the list was just like a conversation in a pub and we could opinionate to our hearts consent. Tant pis, c'est comme ca Are any of you going to vote in the referendum? Do you care? Should we care? Obviously answers on a postcard please because my lesbian Aunt Fanny (Uncle John if she had balls...) would be terribly upset at a publically expressed opinion. Damian Ireland for the Irish Palestine for the Palestinians Combrailles for the Auvergnats and fck the Montluconois I think I should have put a simely somewhere but I dropped it and it got all muddy ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it) ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it) ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
Re: [LU] non LU AV
On 29 Apr 2011, at 08:12, Mark Humphries mark.humphr...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote: The fact all libdems are for it should tell you more. In your words - bollox - it's cross party in both camps Here is my view on it all; 1. It is more complicated, therefore will be more expensive to administer. Government already costs too much. More bollox - in fact it's a lie put about by the no group 2. It is more representative as the winner would need 50% of the vote. Total bollocks. Consider this scenario. First round vote Labour 49%, Conservative 49%, Libdem 2%. Second choice for all conservative/ labour voters = libdem as they don't want the other lot in. Libdem get voted in despite only 2% actually wanting them in originally. Bollox - facts right time Mark, only the 2nd choice of the losers (in your scenario Libdem) would be counted. A better scenario would be 10 friends are trying to decide where to drink tonight - Red Lion gets 2 votes Queens Head gets 2 votes Con Club gets 1 vote Three Legs gets 2 votes Starbucks gets 3 votes Using first past the post they end up going for a coffee despite 7 of them wanting a beer! That's democracy in action. Vote yes to av and let's have a beer :-) http://i.imgur.com/Zb9tj.png cheers Paul ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
[LU] Sounds like…
“The best teams in the world have the best players but they also have players who are mentally strong, who know how to win games and who learn from past experiences. “We’ve got a group with an average age of 25 and it might be that we need to add a bit of experience to that. It might help the younger ones, who are good players, and guide them on. We tried to do it last summer but those players weren’t out there at the time.” Sent from my iPad Dr. Michael Benjamin Community Psychiatrist ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
Re: [LU] non LU AV
snip I don't want my MP spending half his term going round trying to woo concessions out of voters, I want them to be representing me in parliament. snip But in the current system your MP does not represent you, even if you voted for him/her. The MP represents and, unless he/she is an unruly type without any aspirations for advancement, votes the way the party whips tell them to. The first past the post system was set up so that Ideally the voters of a given constituency - for this exercise lets say the whole city of Leeds - send to Westminster someone who represents their views, and votes that way, despite the party or what other members may think or vote. This does not happen of course because now, the only way (with minor exceptions) to get elected in the first place is to become a member of one of the parties and dance to their tune. So, if for instance the voters of Leeds were deeply in support of capital punishment (or choose any other issue), the MP would vote the way his party tells him to, not his constituents viewpoint. Tell me, how is this democratic? AV is by no means perfect, far from it, but is a might fairer than what we have now. Oh, and they spend a great deal less time in Parliament than you give them credit for.. ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
Re: [LU] non LU AV
Also, relies on everyone actually giving a second preference. If you don't want the Lib Dem candidate then don't give a 2nd preference. On 29 April 2011 09:22, Ed Morrish edmorr...@gmail.com wrote: Mark, I think your point about the Lib Dem who wins on 2% of the vote raises an interesting question: how polarising are the other two candidates? If not even 4% of the other side's voters rate you over the Lib Dem guy, aren't you doing something wrong? To have 51% of the electorate say, anyone but HIM... Ed. ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
Re: [LU] non LU AV
And there, in a nutshell is the best argument for AV - you are NOT forced to offer a second option if you don't want to. However, if your constituency has as one of the candidates, Nick Griffin, then you may wish to rank the rest in the order of your choice, playing the anyone but him game -Original Message- From: leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org [mailto:leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org] On Behalf Of Jim Moran Sent: 29 April 2011 09:26 To: e...@morrish.org Cc: leedslist; Simon Hart Subject: Re: [LU] non LU AV Also, relies on everyone actually giving a second preference. If you don't want the Lib Dem candidate then don't give a 2nd preference. ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
Re: [LU] non LU AV
Only true democratic vote for me in a NATIONAL election is to get rid of all this Leeds Central, Leeds West constituency nonesense and have a straight vote for legitimate parties (would need some sensible guidelines in place fir that bit) then have a true one man one vote open election. Tough though it may be to stomach for most of us (as in it would elect a handful of far left and far right members of parliament and probably mean a permanent coalition!) but wouldn't that be the only true representation of the people of the uk?The politics of the people and not the current politics of ego that we have to endure? The civil servants make the country run anyway, the politicians just posture most of the time anyway! On 29 Apr 2011, at 09:49, Steve Gillen steve.gil...@ntlworld.com wrote: And there, in a nutshell is the best argument for AV - you are NOT forced to offer a second option if you don't want to. However, if your constituency has as one of the candidates, Nick Griffin, then you may wish to rank the rest in the order of your choice, playing the anyone but him game -Original Message- From: leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org [mailto:leedslist- boun...@gn.apc.org] On Behalf Of Jim Moran Sent: 29 April 2011 09:26 To: e...@morrish.org Cc: leedslist; Simon Hart Subject: Re: [LU] non LU AV Also, relies on everyone actually giving a second preference. If you don't want the Lib Dem candidate then don't give a 2nd preference. ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it) ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
Re: [LU] RM vs FCB
Absolutely Jim. Fuck em all Fuck em all The long and the short and the tall..,,. Sent from my iPhone On 28 Apr 2011, at 23:07, Jim Moran j...@jimmoran.co.uk wrote: I hate everyone but Leeds. Never understood this Oh, I admire X or I like Y nonsense. ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it) ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
Re: [LU] Good omen?
Ken Bates there? Sent from my iPad Dr. Michael Benjamin Community Psychiatrist On Apr 29, 2011, at 10:50 AM, Robert Heath rhe...@mis-munich.de wrote: I note that the Chief Parasite is wearing yellow with a blue rug to keep her precious knees warm. ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it) ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
Re: [LU] Good omen?
How disgracefully rude. Fine, if you don't like or approve of the Royal family, you have every right to think so, but to use expressions like that is out of order on a day when those of us who don't think as you do are enjoying the occasion. _ From: Robert Heath [mailto:rhe...@mis-munich.de] Sent: 29 April 2011 10:51 To: Steve Gillen; 'Jim Moran'; e...@morrish.org Cc: 'leedslist'; 'Simon Hart' Subject: Good omen? I note that the Chief Parasite is wearing yellow with a blue rug to keep her precious knees warm. ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
Re: [LU] RM vs FCB
Exactly my view on thngs too Jim, with the second group by far the biggest. Our Division play offs/promotion is really bad to decide in terms of who I want to go up (assuming that we have no real chance) QPR - prob 3 (up anyway) Norwich - prob 3, with a bit of 2 Millwall -big time 2 Cardiff- big time 2 Swansea -2 Reading - prob 3 Forest - 3 normally with a bit of 2 but Billy Davies puts them firmly into the 2 catagory So I suppose QPR and Norwich as auto with Reading through play offs BUT then the thought of a crap club like Reading being in the Prem and not us is hard to take,likewise the thought of Norwich doing what we have failed to do - get 2 promotions on the bounce- is a real kick in the teeth Dave Let me qualify things a bit. There's 3 types of club: 1. Leeds 2. Clubs I hate 3. Clubs I couldn't give a f*ck about ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
Re: [LU] non LU AV
I'm trying to work out what your angle is given you've picked just about the one issue that has always (post-war) been a free vote :0 Damian On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 10:20 AM, Steve Gillen steve.gil...@ntlworld.comwrote: ... So, if for instance the voters of Leeds were deeply in support of capital punishment ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
Re: [LU] non LU AV
And I thought that Bagehot was incapable of spinning anymore in his grave ;) What's wrong with getting rid of the partys instead as we live in a post-ideologic world nowadays (don't we? ) Damian This is a local representative for local people ;) On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 11:50 AM, Tim Leslie t...@3leafieldvillas.co.ukwrote: Only true democratic vote for me in a NATIONAL election is to get rid of all this Leeds Central, Leeds West constituency nonesense and have a straight vote for legitimate parties ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
Re: [LU] Good omen?
I think that living in Munchen Rob probably just doesn't like Germans very much. Damian On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 12:42 PM, Steve Gillen steve.gil...@ntlworld.comwrote: How disgracefully rude. Fine, if you don't like or approve of the Royal family, you have every right to think so, but to use expressions like that is out of order on a day when those of us who don't think as you do are enjoying the occasion. _ From: Robert Heath [mailto:rhe...@mis-munich.de] Sent: 29 April 2011 10:51 To: Steve Gillen; 'Jim Moran'; e...@morrish.org Cc: 'leedslist'; 'Simon Hart' Subject: Good omen? I note that the Chief Parasite is wearing yellow with a blue rug to keep her precious knees warm. ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it) ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
Re: [LU] non LU AV
Looked up Bagehot in wiki. I still don't follow your Bon mot. As this is a rivetingly boring day ( sat with a dozing nigh on ninety Year old mother watching the wedding. For this I came to the UK ?) please be kind and explain yourself. Anything to stop me from topping myself in despair. Sent from my iPad Dr. Michael Benjamin Community Psychiatrist On Apr 29, 2011, at 1:05 PM, Damian Walsh pussaydam...@gmail.com wrote: And I thought that Bagehot was incapable of spinning anymore in his grave ;) What's wrong with getting rid of the partys instead as we live in a post-ideologic world nowadays (don't we? ) Damian This is a local representative for local people ;) On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 11:50 AM, Tim Leslie t...@3leafieldvillas.co.ukwrote: Only true democratic vote for me in a NATIONAL election is to get rid of all this Leeds Central, Leeds West constituency nonesense and have a straight vote for legitimate parties ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it) ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
Re: [LU] non LU AV
Yeah I realised that after I wrote it, but too late then... The point is the same though -Original Message- From: leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org [mailto:leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org] On Behalf Of Damian Walsh Sent: 29 April 2011 12:58 To: leedslist Subject: Re: [LU] non LU AV I'm trying to work out what your angle is given you've picked just about the one issue that has always (post-war) been a free vote :0 Damian On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 10:20 AM, Steve Gillen steve.gil...@ntlworld.comwrote: ... So, if for instance the voters of Leeds were deeply in support of capital punishment ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it) ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
Re: [LU] non LU AV
To try and tie the thread back together again - given that our politics have followed a traditional Buck house govt. v Carlton house opposition since the Hannovarians took us over (Symbiosis or Parasitism depending on yr POV ;)) are we entering into a world analogous to the dotage of Georg III with the arrival of the D of Cantab on the scene? Does this explain the Lib Dems rise to power? Am I just bored completely out of my skull waiting for a plane that's still 3 hrs away :( Damian PS on my way to a veterans tournament in Montpelier, case full of Slivovitz and Pilsner Urquell after a week in Praha - expecting to lose about 6kg this weekend (the case, not me...). Was my mistake forgetting to tell the wife face to face and doing it by phone from the hotel? ;) ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
[LU] From today's Gruniad
Leeds United v Barcelona (1975)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOgh3YK1fyQ The season of 1974-75 was the swansong for Don Revie's superlative Leeds United side. Revie had gone, of course, taking the England job in the summer after guiding his boys to their second league title, but the team was still his. As new manager Brian Clough soon found out to his cost. But Leeds suffered as a result of that brief union as well. Their 74-75 side is generally considered to have passed the crest of the hill, but the stats don't quite bear that out. Though they ended the season in ninth place, they were only eight points behind the eventual champions Derby County. Had Clough not effectively given the Rams a seven-point start during his six games in charge at the beginning of the season, Leeds would have been in with a shout of retaining their title. They were also unlucky not to end the season as only the second English team to become European champions. The highlight of their continental run – which ended with controversial defeat to Bayern Munich in the final – was their control in the semi-final of a Barcelona side boasting Johan Cryuff and Johan Neeskens. In this paper, David Lacey wrote of United's long spells of masterful football in the first leg at Elland Roadhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOgh3YK1fyQ. Billy Bremner scored a trademark thunderer early on. Barcelona equalised through Juan Manuel Asensi, but Allan Clarke notched a late winner. Utility man Paul Madeley smothered a disappointing Cruyff, while Barcelona's defence, according to Lacey, amounted to nine men and the goalkeeper. Cruyff disappointed me a little, said Leeds' post-Clough manager Jimmy Armfield. But he is a thoroughbred player and I am sure we will see more of him in Spain. But not for the first time in his life, Cruyff went missing on the big stage. Leeds were the best side for the majority of the second leg at Camp Nou http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GK14TNFn0LQ, leading through an early Peter Lorimer goal, though they had to hold on for the last 20 minutes after Manuel Clares equalised and Gordon McQueen was sent off for (Lacey again) playing Clares with such vitality that it was nearly a minute before the Barcelona player could be brought round and he played to the end mopping his wounded head with a pad. But hold on Leeds did, and made the final in Paris. Had Franz Beckenbauer been rightfully punished for scything down Clarke, United would have won the biggest prize in club football. But it wasn't to be, and Bayern prevailed. The evening ended in a riot http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-zB6xIx3qg. It got so out of hand, writes Rob Bagchi in The Unforgiven, his page-turner of Revie's Leeds, that Bobby Collins, the club's former captain, was head-butted outside the ground by a Leeds fan fooled by his vaguely Teutonic appearance. ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
Re: [LU] Good omen?
If I were to tell you what I really think about those people...that would be rude. _ From: Steve Gillen [mailto:steve.gil...@ntlworld.com] To: 'Robert Heath' [mailto:rhe...@mis-munich.de], 'Jim Moran' [mailto:j...@jimmoran.co.uk], e...@morrish.org Cc: 'leedslist' [mailto:leedslist@gn.apc.org], 'Simon Hart' [mailto:simon.h...@york.ac.uk] Sent: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 12:42:24 +0200 Subject: RE: Good omen? How disgracefully rude. Fine, if you don't like or approve of the Royal family, you have every right to think so, but to use expressions like that is out of order on a day when those of us who don't think as you do are enjoying the occasion. _ From: Robert Heath [mailto:rhe...@mis-munich.de] Sent: 29 April 2011 10:51 To: Steve Gillen; 'Jim Moran'; e...@morrish.org Cc: 'leedslist'; 'Simon Hart' Subject: Good omen? I note that the Chief Parasite is wearing yellow with a blue rug to keep her precious knees warm. ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
Re: [LU] Good omen?
Not disgraceful at all. Parasite is the kindest word I can think of to describe for them. We need constitutional protection from Parliament, proper democracy, an elected head of state and for these born to rule toffs to get jobs. Up the Republic. I Sent from my iPhone On 29 Apr 2011, at 11:42, Steve Gillen steve.gil...@ntlworld.com wrote: How disgracefully rude. Fine, if you don't like or approve of the Royal family, you have every right to think so, but to use expressions like that is out of order on a day when those of us who don't think as you do are enjoying the occasion. _ From: Robert Heath [mailto:rhe...@mis-munich.de] Sent: 29 April 2011 10:51 To: Steve Gillen; 'Jim Moran'; e...@morrish.org Cc: 'leedslist'; 'Simon Hart' Subject: Good omen? I note that the Chief Parasite is wearing yellow with a blue rug to keep her precious knees warm. ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it) ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
Re: [LU] Good omen?
Not disgraceful at all. Parasite is the kindest word I can think of to describe for that set of fucking thieves. We need constitutional protection from Parliament, proper democracy, an elected head of state and for these born to rule toffs to get jobs. Up the Republic. I Sent from my iPhone On 29 Apr 2011, at 11:42, Steve Gillen steve.gil...@ntlworld.com wrote: How disgracefully rude. Fine, if you don't like or approve of the Royal family, you have every right to think so, but to use expressions like that is out of order on a day when those of us who don't think as you do are enjoying the occasion. _ From: Robert Heath [mailto:rhe...@mis-munich.de] Sent: 29 April 2011 10:51 To: Steve Gillen; 'Jim Moran'; e...@morrish.org Cc: 'leedslist'; 'Simon Hart' Subject: Good omen? I note that the Chief Parasite is wearing yellow with a blue rug to keep her precious knees warm. ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it) ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
Re: [LU] Good omen?
Ps tried to cancel and tone it down a bit but didn't work, clearly. Sorry for anyone whose filter picked up the deletive expletive. Hope you're enjoying the sandwiches Steve. :) Sent from my iPhone On 29 Apr 2011, at 11:42, Steve Gillen steve.gil...@ntlworld.com wrote: How disgracefully rude. Fine, if you don't like or approve of the Royal family, you have every right to think so, but to use expressions like that is out of order on a day when those of us who don't think as you do are enjoying the occasion. _ From: Robert Heath [mailto:rhe...@mis-munich.de] Sent: 29 April 2011 10:51 To: Steve Gillen; 'Jim Moran'; e...@morrish.org Cc: 'leedslist'; 'Simon Hart' Subject: Good omen? I note that the Chief Parasite is wearing yellow with a blue rug to keep her precious knees warm. ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it) ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
Re: [LU] non LU AV
On 28/04/2011 23:25, Damian Walsh wrote: I know that the list was neutered a long time ago Opre Roma! I say! Betty ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
Re: [LU] Good omen?
Politics for all or none. From recent events we have seen that for all is a non starter. So my vote is for none. In short let's stick to football. Michael Sent from my iPad Dr. Michael Benjamin Community Psychiatrist On Apr 29, 2011, at 3:57 PM, Ian Murray ianjamesmur...@hotmail.com wrote: Ps tried to cancel and tone it down a bit but didn't work, clearly. Sorry for anyone whose filter picked up the deletive expletive. Hope you're enjoying the sandwiches Steve. :) Sent from my iPhone On 29 Apr 2011, at 11:42, Steve Gillen steve.gil...@ntlworld.com wrote: How disgracefully rude. Fine, if you don't like or approve of the Royal family, you have every right to think so, but to use expressions like that is out of order on a day when those of us who don't think as you do are enjoying the occasion. _ From: Robert Heath [mailto:rhe...@mis-munich.de] Sent: 29 April 2011 10:51 To: Steve Gillen; 'Jim Moran'; e...@morrish.org Cc: 'leedslist'; 'Simon Hart' Subject: Good omen? I note that the Chief Parasite is wearing yellow with a blue rug to keep her precious knees warm. ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it) ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it) ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
Re: [LU] Good omen?
Didn't have any sandwiches thank you, but I'll just leave all you non Royalists (republicans?) with one thought... If we do away with the royal family would you be happy with us then becoming just another ordinary country like France for instance? And think on this, it would leave the Prime Minister as the head of state wouldn't it? Now think Tony Blair or even Margaret Thatcher - I'm sure tourists will pour in in their millions bringing tourist money to the UK in rivers just to catch a glimpse of one of them I'll stick with the Queen thank you. _ From: Dr. Michael Benjamin [mailto:beden...@gmail.com] Sent: 29 April 2011 16:11 To: Ian Murray Cc: Steve Gillen; leedslist; e...@morrish.org; Simon Hart Subject: Re: [LU] Good omen? Politics for all or none. From recent events we have seen that for all is a non starter. So my vote is for none. In short let's stick to football. Michael Sent from my iPad Dr. Michael Benjamin Community Psychiatrist On Apr 29, 2011, at 3:57 PM, Ian Murray ianjamesmur...@hotmail.com wrote: Ps tried to cancel and tone it down a bit but didn't work, clearly. Sorry for anyone whose filter picked up the deletive expletive. Hope you're enjoying the sandwiches Steve. :) Sent from my iPhone On 29 Apr 2011, at 11:42, Steve Gillen steve.gil...@ntlworld.com wrote: How disgracefully rude. Fine, if you don't like or approve of the Royal family, you have every right to think so, but to use expressions like that is out of order on a day when those of us who don't think as you do are enjoying the occasion. _ From: Robert Heath [mailto:rhe...@mis-munich.de] Sent: 29 April 2011 10:51 To: Steve Gillen; 'Jim Moran'; mailto:e...@morrish.org e...@morrish.org Cc: 'leedslist'; 'Simon Hart' Subject: Good omen? I note that the Chief Parasite is wearing yellow with a blue rug to keep her precious knees warm. ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email mailto:leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it) ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email mailto:leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it) ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
Re: [LU] non LU AV
What the f... Do explain. Please. Opre Roma as a non-governmental organization was set up by the Roma (Gypsy) residents of the Domokos Marton Kert settlement in Debrecen (eastern Hungary) The NGO aims at the improvement of the health and life of its members and Roma people in general. Our priorities include to implement a housing project along with community and cultural development, education, training and employment. Sent from my iPad Dr. Michael Benjamin Community Psychiatrist On Apr 29, 2011, at 4:09 PM, barbaravi...@gmail.com wrote: On 28/04/2011 23:25, Damian Walsh wrote: I know that the list was neutered a long time ago Opre Roma! I say! Betty ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it) ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
[LU] Fwd: Re: Good omen?
I stick with the Queen - generally on first class post - I think its Wallace Gromit on the second class these days (any one remember letters?) Tourists don't come to see the queen or any of that crowd - they wouldn't sully themselves - they come to see the castles, the towers, the palaces and gardens etc. We have a rich and fascinating history. To take your example about France - yes, I'd take that, because if enough of us didnt like the buggers, we'd vote them out. Just one question Steve, (and anyone else of that persuasion); Are you content with the idea that children/grandchildren of yours are automatically less important, less valuable and worthy of fewer life chances than children born to others? If the answer to this is Yes, I am, thank you then, congratulations, you have argued in favour of the current aristocratic system. Enjoy your cake. On 29 April 2011 at 16:24 Steve Gillen steve.gil...@ntlworld.com wrote: Didn't have any sandwiches thank you, but I'll just leave all you non Royalists (republicans?) with one thought... If we do away with the royal family would you be happy with us then becoming just another ordinary country like France for instance? And think on this, it would leave the Prime Minister as the head of state wouldn't it? Now think Tony Blair or even Margaret Thatcher - I'm sure tourists will pour in in their millions bringing tourist money to the UK in rivers just to catch a glimpse of one of them I'll stick with the Queen thank you. _ From: Dr. Michael Benjamin [mailto:beden...@gmail.com] Sent: 29 April 2011 16:11 To: Ian Murray Cc: Steve Gillen; leedslist; e...@morrish.org; Simon Hart Subject: Re: [LU] Good omen? Politics for all or none. From recent events we have seen that for all is a non starter. So my vote is for none. In short let's stick to football. Michael Sent from my iPad Dr. Michael Benjamin Community Psychiatrist On Apr 29, 2011, at 3:57 PM, Ian Murray ianjamesmur...@hotmail.com wrote: Ps tried to cancel and tone it down a bit but didn't work, clearly. Sorry for anyone whose filter picked up the deletive expletive. Hope you're enjoying the sandwiches Steve. :) Sent from my iPhone On 29 Apr 2011, at 11:42, Steve Gillen steve.gil...@ntlworld.com wrote: How disgracefully rude. Fine, if you don't like or approve of the Royal family, you have every right to think so, but to use expressions like that is out of order on a day when those of us who don't think as you do are enjoying the occasion. _ From: Robert Heath [mailto:rhe...@mis-munich.de] Sent: 29 April 2011 10:51 To: Steve Gillen; 'Jim Moran'; mailto:e...@morrish.org e...@morrish.org Cc: 'leedslist'; 'Simon Hart' Subject: Good omen? I note that the Chief Parasite is wearing yellow with a blue rug to keep her precious knees warm. ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email mailto:leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it) ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email mailto:leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it) ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it) ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
[LU] Save Fan Culture! FSE Stadium Action Days to kick off this weekend
From: Football Supporters Europe Save Fan Culture! FSE Stadium Action Days 29 April – 16 May 2011 Excessive and disproportionate use of force, unjust arrests, banned flags or banners for no transparent reason, arbitrary stadium ban procedures and worst of all, punishment of entire sets of fans for the wrongdoing of mostly a tiny minority of individuals. Practically all fans have experienced one or the other. Many experience it on a regular basis, some at every away match, and others just at their home matches. Due to numerous of these negative experiences, police is often perceived as an “enemy” rather than a body which is there to protect us and ensure our safety in football – which it is supposed to do. For many fans, all of this is just another manifestation of the “modern game”. Repression and collective stigmatisation of fans as a problem from the side of the police, authorities and clubs is certainly part in many fans lives. Life inside football grounds has changed. Increased commercialization in the past years have lead to clubs and whole leagues being more and more dependent on their various private sponsors – TV companies, financial groups, rich investors etc. New laws and regulations have imposed stricter and stricter forms of control or restrictions over fans all over Europe, under the pretense of increasing stadium security or safety, or to fight against “unwanted elements” – such as the use of pyrotechnics. In consequence, the needs and wishes of the traditional, genuine fans have been more and more collectively neglected. Generally, all around Europe, new and stricter regulations are being implemented or considered – new and improved camera systems or special ID cards for fans, and many fans still have to face an everyday presence of police officers inside their stands or untrained stewards without expertise in de-escalation strategies. Encouraging self-policing by giving responsibility back to the fans rather than treating them like passive consumers is not considered an option. Collective punishment of whole sets of innocent fans e.g. via matches behind closed doors - for the actions of a tiny minority - are part of the official means of sanctioning as a rule, thousands of fans are being given stadium bans every year, often without evidence or as preventive measures, even against entire groups of supporters. Despite the situation we are facing, it is us the match-going, passionate, football supporters from around Europe that ARE the “lifeblood” of football and we should raise our voice. It is up to us to stand up wherever necessary and refuse to be treated as second class citizens just because we happen to go to a football game and fight the tightening grip of repressive means of sanctioning. It is time for us to organize and work for a common goal: to Save Our Fan Culture We as active, match-going and passionate fans from all around Europe: Call upon, clubs, leagues and football associations, to stop the introduction of Fan ID Cards Call upon responsible authorities to uphold valid laws and legislation requiring all police officers to be recognized individually by clearly visible ID numbers Call upon responsible authorities to implement the introduction of trained stewards instead of police officers inside stadia Call for the introduction of transparent, permitting and proportional regulations regarding the usage of fan items, such as: flags, banners and tifo materials, inside stadia, developed in close consultation with football supporters Want to encourage self-policing amongst football fans and call upon UEFA, national FA’s, clubs and authorities to take all necessary means to foster such developments as well We as football supporters want to enjoy matches and support our club in a free, hospitable and passionate atmosphere. If we are listened to and considered, we are part of the solution, not the problem! Let’s show them how colourful the fan culture is that they risk to loose! Create a tifo, display banners, distribute leaflets and info amongst fans and involve your group, your stand, and your friends. Get active and join the European Action Day “Save Fan Culture!”, by using the slogan on your banners, leaflets and actions, during the days from 29th of April to the 16th of May 2011. Everone is welcome to join the campaign that can consent and support the FSE core principles It’s up to us to challenge police repression and stand up for case-sensitive, fair and transparent treatment of football fans in Europe. It is up to us to unite, show how many we are and make our points visible to Save Fan Culture! How can you participate? It is not necessary to sign up for the campaign in order to participate, because we want as many fans as possible to take part in the campaign that can consent to our core principles! However, the more support the campaign publicly, the more powerful it gets! We would therefore appreciate
Re: [LU] Fwd: Re: Good omen?
Of course it's why they come to the UK. Why else would anyone from the UK go on holiday to Spain if it wasn't in the hope of a glimpse of the Spanish Royals. - Original Message - From: n...@6haroldplace.co.uk To: leedslist@gn.apc.org Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 5:21 PM Subject: [LU] Fwd: Re: Good omen? Tourists don't come to see the queen or any of that crowd - they wouldn't sully themselves - ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
Re: [LU] Fwd: Re: Good omen?
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 17:21:21 +0100 From: n...@6haroldplace.co.uk Tourists don't come to see the queen or any of that crowd - they wouldn't sully themselves - they come to see the castles, the towers, the palaces and gardens etc. We have a rich and fascinating history. To take your example about France - yes, I'd take that, because if enough of us didnt like the buggers, we'd vote them out. Are you content with the idea that children/grandchildren of yours are automatically less important, less valuable and worthy of fewer life chances than children born to others? That was a hell of a large mass of tourists in downtown London spending their money to NOT see the Royals? And the Royals don't have a monopoly on generational advantages...you can bet that the current spawn of the Great Pretender in the Whitehouse have a life time of advantages coming their way now. So while the Cult of Personality is busy filling his calendar with daytime television appearances and ignoring leading and governing the country his family will be reaping a multi-generational lifetime of benefits and head starts over the rest of our offspring.. I also point to...Bush I leading to Bush II. Do you really think Dubya gained the presidency based on his own talent? So don't be too hard on the blue bloods. Cheers Mark El Presidente Wisconsin Whites Leeds United Chicago Fire ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
Re: [LU] Good omen?
Come on Steve , don't get ruffled by Mr Heath- he left our great country years ago and now lives in the 3rd world somewhere. I'm no fan of the Royals but bloody he'll it was good to see that we can put on an occasion like today. Absolutely bloody marvellous and makes us the envy of the world - love us or hate us they can't ignore us ! Sent from my iPhone On 29 Apr 2011, at 13:57, Robert Heath rhe...@mis-munich.de wrote: If I were to tell you what I really think about those people...that would be rude. _ From: Steve Gillen [mailto:steve.gil...@ntlworld.com] To: 'Robert Heath' [mailto:rhe...@mis-munich.de], 'Jim Moran' [mailto:j...@jimmoran.co.uk], e...@morrish.org Cc: 'leedslist' [mailto:leedslist@gn.apc.org], 'Simon Hart' [mailto:simon.h...@york.ac.uk] Sent: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 12:42:24 +0200 Subject: RE: Good omen? How disgracefully rude. Fine, if you don't like or approve of the Royal family, you have every right to think so, but to use expressions like that is out of order on a day when those of us who don't think as you do are enjoying the occasion. _ From: Robert Heath [mailto:rhe...@mis-munich.de] Sent: 29 April 2011 10:51 To: Steve Gillen; 'Jim Moran'; e...@morrish.org Cc: 'leedslist'; 'Simon Hart' Subject: Good omen? I note that the Chief Parasite is wearing yellow with a blue rug to keep her precious knees warm. ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it) ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
Re: [LU] Good omen?
Je suis mortellement offendé par ce slur sur la Patrie - qui, d'ailleur a fourni la Royauté de l'Angleterre pendent 750 ans avant ces Boches actuelles ont pris le relai. Ca demande une rencontre Monsieur! Par tradition soit Marble Arch à Londres soit les Champs de Mars à Paris. A vous a decidé Six heures lundi matin aux pistolets! Monsieur Walsh de la Goutelle On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 5:24 PM, Steve Gillen steve.gil...@ntlworld.comwrote: just another ordinary country like France for instance? ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
Re: [LU] Good omen?
Six heures lundi matin aux pistolets! Pistolets? Why not a proper bloody pistol Walsh instead of a girly one! ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
Re: [LU] Good omen?
Aye, righto old love, ths's on -Original Message- From: leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org [mailto:leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org] On Behalf Of Damian Walsh Sent: 29 April 2011 19:07 To: leedslist Subject: Re: [LU] Good omen? Je suis mortellement offendé par ce slur sur la Patrie - qui, d'ailleur a fourni la Royauté de l'Angleterre pendent 750 ans avant ces Boches actuelles ont pris le relai. Ca demande une rencontre Monsieur! Par tradition soit Marble Arch à Londres soit les Champs de Mars à Paris. A vous a decidé Six heures lundi matin aux pistolets! Monsieur Walsh de la Goutelle On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 5:24 PM, Steve Gillen steve.gil...@ntlworld.comwrote: just another ordinary country like France for instance? ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it) ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
Re: [LU] Good omen?
Excellent reply Richard - I thank you for it -Original Message- From: Richard Walker [mailto:richleed...@yahoo.co.uk] Sent: 29 April 2011 18:52 To: Robert Heath Cc: Steve Gillen; Jim Moran; e...@morrish.org; leedslist; Simon Hart Subject: Re: [LU] Good omen? Come on Steve , don't get ruffled by Mr Heath- he left our great country years ago and now lives in the 3rd world somewhere. I'm no fan of the Royals but bloody he'll it was good to see that we can put on an occasion like today. Absolutely bloody marvellous and makes us the envy of the world - love us or hate us they can't ignore us ! Sent from my iPhone On 29 Apr 2011, at 13:57, Robert Heath rhe...@mis-munich.de wrote: If I were to tell you what I really think about those people...that would be rude. _ From: Steve Gillen [mailto:steve.gil...@ntlworld.com] To: 'Robert Heath' [mailto:rhe...@mis-munich.de], 'Jim Moran' [mailto:j...@jimmoran.co.uk], e...@morrish.org Cc: 'leedslist' [mailto:leedslist@gn.apc.org], 'Simon Hart' [mailto:simon.h...@york.ac.uk] Sent: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 12:42:24 +0200 Subject: RE: Good omen? How disgracefully rude. Fine, if you don't like or approve of the Royal family, you have every right to think so, but to use expressions like that is out of order on a day when those of us who don't think as you do are enjoying the occasion. _ From: Robert Heath [mailto:rhe...@mis-munich.de] Sent: 29 April 2011 10:51 To: Steve Gillen; 'Jim Moran'; e...@morrish.org Cc: 'leedslist'; 'Simon Hart' Subject: Good omen? I note that the Chief Parasite is wearing yellow with a blue rug to keep her precious knees warm. ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it) ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
[LU] Non-LU - Royals
Being a staunch Royals supporter in a country Canada, which is split down the middle as to going Republic...and also being so close to the U.S., I can safely say, the Americans adore everything Royals.hence the U.S. TV coverage of today's wedding. If you don't like them, there's no need to blabber about iteveryone's entitled to their positionyesand so am I. Now let's get back to football...isn't there a game tomorrow? Grampa Sykes ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER (There's it)
