[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing (see comment #43 for summary at 2020-04-15)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

Aron Budea  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|REOPENED|RESOLVED
 Resolution|--- |FIXED

--- Comment #67 from Aron Budea  ---
(In reply to Adalbert Hanßen from comment #66)

It's not the wisest idea to reopen a bug report just after someone being asked
not to do that for old bug reports that have been closed for a while.

Either of you can open a new bug report, add this to See Also, if you want you
can even comment here and mention the new bug report. Following up on an old
bug means having to read through dozens of comments, most of them not being
relevant to the current situation. When you create a new one, you can have a
clear description of the situation and what your problem is, and also take the
existing feedback into account. Please do that.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing (see comment #43 for summary at 2020-04-15)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

Adalbert Hanßen  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Resolution|FIXED   |---
 Status|RESOLVED|REOPENED

--- Comment #66 from Adalbert Hanßen  ---
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #65)
> (In reply to al F from comment #64)
> > After browsing several bug reports I am still not sure if this is the right
> > place to post. Please point me to the right place if not.
> 
> Adding notes to fixed tickets is flogging a dead horse. If you think you
> found a bug (quickly reading over the text it seems so) please file a new
> ticket.

The ticket is marked as resolved, but the problem is not really resolved.

1. Would it not be possible, to re-open the old ticket: Then every one would
see that it is an very old story. BTW: my last posting also showed that this is
still an etching inflammation... If I would file a new ticket and alF would
file another one, things might run apart again.

2. From a centralized standpoint (if you prefer to keep closed tickets closed):
Would it not be better in such a case to "promote" such "late reopen"-cases as
new cases, automatically providing links to old duplicates or quasi-duplicates?

Just at the moment I refrain from filing a new ticket for
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720#c63 because there is
a risk that simultaneously a duplicate from alF is posted.

I just try to reopen this old ticket instead.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing (see comment #43 for summary at 2020-04-15)

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #65 from Heiko Tietze  ---
(In reply to al F from comment #64)
> After browsing several bug reports I am still not sure if this is the right
> place to post. Please point me to the right place if not.

Adding notes to fixed tickets is flogging a dead horse. If you think you found
a bug (quickly reading over the text it seems so) please file a new ticket.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing (see comment #43 for summary at 2020-04-15)

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #64 from al F  ---
After browsing several bug reports I am still not sure if this is the right
place to post. Please point me to the right place if not.

When inserting images, I expect that modifying the Frame style "Graphics" would
change the defaults of the inserted image. That is true only to a certain
degree. Settings for size are just ignored while settings for anchor is
respected only when the anchor is Page.

Expected behavior is that changing properties for the Graphics Frame style
would have full impact when inserting images.

Version: 7.2.0.2 / LibreOffice Community
Build ID: 614be4f5c67816389257027dc5e56c801a547089
CPU threads: 8; OS: Linux 5.4; UI render: default; VCL: kf5 (cairo+xcb)
Locale: nb-NO (en_US.UTF-8); UI: en-US
Calc: threaded

Operating System: Kubuntu 20.04 with Ubuntu Studio
KDE Plasma Version: 5.18.5
KDE Frameworks Version: 5.68.0
Qt Version: 5.12.8
Kernel Version: 5.4.0-81-lowlatency
OS Type: 64-bit

Steps to reproduce:
0. Create a new document
1. Styles > Manage Styles > Frame Styles > Graphics
2. Modify settings and close
3. Insert > Image

Modified settings example 1:
Width: 9 cm (Height automatically changes to the same value)
Keep ratio
Anchor: To page
Position: Center / Top to entire page

Inserted image will have these properties:
Width: 17 cm (same as text area on the page)
Height: 22,67 cm
Keep ratio
Anchor: To page
Position: Center / Top to entire page

Modified settings example 2:
Width: 9 cm / Autosize off
Height: 9 cm / Autosize on
Keep ratio
Anchor: To paragraph
Position: Center to paragraph area / Top to Paragraph text area

Inserted image will have these properties:
Width: 17 cm (same as text area on the page)
Height: 22,67 cm
Keep ratio
Anchor: To character
Position: Center / Top to page text area

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing (see comment #43 for summary at 2020-04-15)

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14
   ||3604

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing (see comment #43 for summary at 2020-04-15)

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #63 from Adalbert Hanßen  ---
Created attachment 173713
  --> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=173713=edit
Screenshots how I followed the hint to set the default anchoring of pictures
which does not work.

I tried the hint from
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720#c60 but it does not
work, as can be seen in the attached document with screenshots of what I did
and what I experienced.

After the fact, I anchored the two pictures in this document at paragraphs, as
I always do.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing (see comment #43 for summary at 2020-04-15)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #62 from robertaik...@yahoo.com ---
Thank you so much for this link 
You saved me a lot of time! (In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #61)
> (In reply to andrew.james.heard from comment #60)
> > As a casual user it took me ages...
> 
> You may enjoy the release notes, see
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/7.1#General_improvements 
> https://hum2d.com/

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing (see comment #43 for summary at 2020-04-15)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #61 from Heiko Tietze  ---
(In reply to andrew.james.heard from comment #60)
> As a casual user it took me ages...

You may enjoy the release notes, see
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/7.1#General_improvements

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing (see comment #43 for summary at 2020-04-15)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #60 from andrew.james.he...@gmail.com ---
As a casual user it took me ages from
https://blog.documentfoundation.org/blog/2021/02/03/libreoffice-7-1-community/
to actually find where this change has actually been implemented. The only
reference is from April 2020. So for others - Tools > Options > LibreOffice
Writer > Formatting Aids > Anchor.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing (see comment #43 for summary at 2020-04-15)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

Telesto  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Resolution|--- |FIXED
 Status|NEW |RESOLVED

--- Comment #59 from Telesto  ---
(In reply to Jonathan Kayne from comment #58)
Just add an option (somewhere) that lets the user set what they want as the
default. 

See bug 99646

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing (see comment #43 for summary at 2020-04-15)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

Jonathan Kayne  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Resolution|FIXED   |---
 Status|RESOLVED|NEW

--- Comment #58 from Jonathan Kayne  ---
(In reply to John from comment #56)
> (In reply to Aron Budea from comment #55)
> > (In reply to John from comment #53)
> > > Well, sorry again, folks. Now I see that image is actually inserted TO
> > > character. In almost all other apps it is inserted AS character.
> > The default cannot be set to As Character until bug 87719 is resolved, that
> > is the primary reason why it is set to To Character right now.
> 
> Hello, Aron. Thanks. This is a quote by Heiko Tietze from the link you gave:
> 
> > We discussed the topic in the design meeting. The default anchoring is To 
> > Character, by design, and those objects can be moved around. Not being able 
> > to drag an object when placed _As_ character makes sense consequently. As 
> > there is no other use case we better resolve the ticket as WF.
> 
> So it's not clear to me:
> 
> 1. whether that bug is _really_ intended to be fixed someday (WF - won't
> fix?)
> 2. ... and whether the default image anchoring would be changed to "as
> character" _even if_ that bug will be fixed.

I don't know if this is the wrong place to put this, but it really seems like
the whole discussion is missing the point. It really doesn't matter what the
default anchor behavior is. 

There is a really simple solution which I am pretty sure was proposed in the
first comment: Just add an option (somewhere) that lets the user set what they
want as the default. 

As far as I can tell, you have to do a bunch of editing of stylesheets and
whatnot, so I have to ask why we can't just add this as an additional setting? 

Users who are used to Word are going to want the default to be "As Character"
so it would definitely be nice if they could change the default without too
much trouble.

Sounds less of a bug and more of a feature request!

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing (see comment #43 for summary at 2020-04-15)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #57 from Aron Budea  ---
(In reply to John from comment #56)
> 1. whether that bug is _really_ intended to be fixed someday (WF - won't
> fix?)
Sure, anything can be fixed provided someone is interested in the topic and
puts the time and effort into it.

> 2. ... and whether the default image anchoring would be changed to "as
> character" _even if_ that bug will be fixed.
This discussion should be resumed once there is a fix, there's not much to talk
about until then.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing (see comment #43 for summary at 2020-04-15)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #56 from John  ---
(In reply to Aron Budea from comment #55)
> (In reply to John from comment #53)
> > Well, sorry again, folks. Now I see that image is actually inserted TO
> > character. In almost all other apps it is inserted AS character.
> The default cannot be set to As Character until bug 87719 is resolved, that
> is the primary reason why it is set to To Character right now.

Hello, Aron. Thanks. This is a quote by Heiko Tietze from the link you gave:

> We discussed the topic in the design meeting. The default anchoring is To 
> Character, by design, and those objects can be moved around. Not being able 
> to drag an object when placed _As_ character makes sense consequently. As 
> there is no other use case we better resolve the ticket as WF.

So it's not clear to me:

1. whether that bug is _really_ intended to be fixed someday (WF - won't fix?)
2. ... and whether the default image anchoring would be changed to "as
character" _even if_ that bug will be fixed.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing (see comment #43 for summary at 2020-04-15)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #55 from Aron Budea  ---
(In reply to John from comment #53)
> Well, sorry again, folks. Now I see that image is actually inserted TO
> character. In almost all other apps it is inserted AS character.
The default cannot be set to As Character until bug 87719 is resolved, that is
the primary reason why it is set to To Character right now.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing (see comment #43 for summary at 2020-04-15)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #54 from John  ---
(In reply to gmolleda from comment #38)
> Image is pasted with default anchor "To character"
> It is better default choice the anchor "As character" because the behaviour
> that a new user waits.
> 
> My LibreOffice: Versión: 6.4.1.2 (x64)
> Id. de compilación: 4d224e95b98b138af42a64d84056446d09082932
> Subprocs. CPU: 2; SO: Windows 6.1 Service Pack 1 Build 7601; Repres. IU:
> predet.; VCL: win; 
> Configuración regional: es-ES (es_ES); Idioma de IU: es-ES
> Calc: threaded
> 
> Thanks.

Which "new users"? Users asked "as character" for about 10 years. And newcomers
from e.g. modern versions of MSO will expect the same. This is just insulting.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing (see comment #43 for summary at 2020-04-15)

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #53 from John  ---
Well, sorry again, folks. Now I see that image is actually inserted TO
character. In almost all other apps it is inserted AS character.

I think that AS is a way better.

* It is more convenient to switch from one app to another
* It is more intuitive.
* Such an image is harder to confuse with the one anchored to paragraph.
* And you can place multiple images in a row.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing (see comment #43 for summary at 2020-04-15)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #52 from John  ---
... Well, I was fooled by the anchor icon and by the placement of the image in
the middle of the line.

In Microsoft Office Word, if image is inserted as character, you won't see the
anchor image and image will be in the beginning of the line rather in its
middle.

Now I see that image is actually inserted as character. Sorry.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing (see comment #43 for summary at 2020-04-15)

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #51 from John  ---
Hello all. I waited this feature for years, and it seems you say that it now
works. But it seems it doesn't work for me.

Tested with:

Version: 6.4.7.2 (x86)
Build ID: 639b8ac485750d5696d7590a72ef1b496725cfb5
CPU threads: 4; OS: Windows 6.1 Service Pack 1 Build 7601; UI render: default;
VCL: win;
Locale: en-US (en_US); UI-Language: en-US
Calc: threaded

Version: 7.0.2.2 (x86)
Build ID: 8349ace3c3162073abd90d81fd06dcfb6b36b994
CPU threads: 4; OS: Windows 6.1 Service Pack 1 Build 7601; UI render:
Skia/Raster; VCL: win
Locale: en-US (en_US); UI: en-US
Calc: threaded

All images are inserted as anchored "to paragraph". I can change an individual
image to be anchored "as character", but the next image will be inserted "as
paragraph". So it works the same way as years before. And I see no option to
change it.

This is true for both images pasted from other sources (e.g., a web browser)
using Ctrl+V and for images inserted using Menu > Insert > Image.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing (see comment #43 for summary at 2020-04-15)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #50 from Justin L  ---
I think it is too bad that the as-character change wasn't simply reverted
instead of being "fixed" by changing to another setting that had no time left
for testing.

Anchoring issues have always abounded, so a change this significant will
obviously have huge ramifications.

I find it very funny that this change was meant to improve compatibility with
MS formats, but when I saved as at-character anchored image to docx format, it
round-trips as an at-paragraph anchor.

It still isn't too late to revert for stable 6.4.7...

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing (see comment #43 for summary at 2020-04-15)

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

Justin L  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13
   ||5329

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing (see comment #43 for summary at 2020-04-15)

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

Timur  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13
   ||3380

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing (see comment #43 for summary at 2020-04-15)

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks||133291


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=133291
[Bug 133291] Graphic style default anchor should be to character
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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing (see comment #43 for summary at 2020-04-15)

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

Telesto  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|REOPENED|RESOLVED
 Resolution|--- |FIXED

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing (see comment #43 for summary at 2020-04-15)

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #49 from Heiko Tietze  ---
Please file a new ticket if you found new issues. 
Help about anchoring is here
https://help.libreoffice.org/6.4/en-US/text/swriter/guide/anchor_object.html?DbPAR=WRITER#bm_id3147828
(help is never discussing pro and cons of different settings)
Reason for the change was a) to align with other programs and b) have a
reasonable default for the majority.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing (see comment #43 for summary at 2020-04-15)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13
   ||2314

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing (see comment #43 for summary at 2020-04-15)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #48 from Telesto  ---
Created attachment 159933
  --> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=159933=edit
Example file

(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #46)
> (In reply to Telesto from comment #45)
> > I would expect everything to behave the same..
> 
> Why? Consistency is good but the purpose of a frame is different than
> images. Or in what scenario do you insert a shape To Character?

1. Open the attached file
2. Set the cursor on page 2 and the end of the page (after yellow marking)
3. Insert a chart (positioned below)
4. CTRL+Z
5. Set the cursor on page 2 and the end of the page (after yellow marking)
6. Insert -> Image -> positioned on top of the page with anchor on given
position
6. CTRL+Z
7. Set the cursor on page 2 and the end of the page (after yellow marking)
8. Drag a textbox on the second page (moves to the first page)
9. CTRL+Z
10. Set the cursor on page 2 and the end of the page (after yellow marking)
11. Insert a fontwork
12. CTRL+Z
13. Set the cursor on page 2 and the end of the page (after yellow marking)
14. Insert an interactive frame
15. CTRL+Z (CTRL+Z)
16. Set the cursor on page 2 and the end of the page (after yellow marking)
17. Insert a shape
18. CTRL+Z
19. Set the cursor on page 2 and the end of the page (after yellow marking)
20. Insert -> Media -> Audio/video object
21. CTRL+Z
22. Set the cursor on page 2 and the end of the page (after yellow marking)
23. Insert Object -> Ole object
24. CTRL+Z
25. Set the cursor on page 2 and the end of the page (after yellow marking)
26. Form -> Label -> Draw it on the second page
27. CTRL+Z
28. Set the cursor on page 2 and the end of the page (after yellow marking)
28. Form -> Checkbox -> Draw it on the second page
29. CTRL+Z
30. Set the cursor on page 2 and the end of the page (after yellow marking)
31. Form -> Push Button -> Draw it on the second page

The whole list shows the problem with 'as paragraph anchoring' next to 'to
character'. At the same time you can see different behavior with the same
anchoring set depending on the object in use... madding by itself. 
And why do the form elements have different anchoring between them?

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing (see comment #43 for summary at 2020-04-15)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #47 from Telesto  ---
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #46)
> (In reply to Telesto from comment #45)
> > I would expect everything to behave the same..
> 
> Why? Consistency is good but the purpose of a frame is different than
> images. Or in what scenario do you insert a shape To Character?

Please, explain. Surely shapes/textboxes/form element have a different purpose.
I'm not denying that. However, i'm not seeing how the purpose is relevant for
the anchoring.. What is the benefit anchoring these "to paragraph"? Or the
other way around what's objection against 'anchoring to character"? I'm not
aware of the major differences (LibO help doesn't explain it either)

I do know there 
* was a reason to change anchoring for images.. Does the same logic also apply
for Shapes/Frames/Text Boxes, Form elements?
* there is an odd exception of charts.. being anchored as 'to character' as
well. How is this different from a shape?
* Not sure how often a user makes a change to the default anchoring. I tend to
stick with it, except if it behaves unexpectedly. However if we gonna mix
different anchoring with probably (I can't find it) difference in behavior
depending on the object.. This can cause surprises concern the layout. 
There also text layout issues related to anchoring. Depending on the type of
anchoring. 
* Other inconsistency's: frame containing image, has same anchor as image.
Empty frame has a different anchor.

Was there an argument about the other objects? I'm raising the question.. My
starting point is always consistency/ coherence/ conformity. This was the case
before switching 'to paragraph' to 'to anchor'

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing (see comment #43 for summary at 2020-04-15)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Keywords|needsUXEval |
 CC|libreoffice-ux-advise@lists |
   |.freedesktop.org|

--- Comment #46 from Heiko Tietze  ---
(In reply to Telesto from comment #45)
> I would expect everything to behave the same..

Why? Consistency is good but the purpose of a frame is different than images.
Or in what scenario do you insert a shape To Character?

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing (see comment #43 for summary at 2020-04-15)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

Telesto  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Resolution|FIXED   |---
 Status|RESOLVED|REOPENED
 CC||heiko.tietze@documentfounda
   ||tion.org

--- Comment #45 from Telesto  ---
I didn't follow the discussion in depth.. so maybe missing something.. Is there
are reason that following elements are still anchored to paragraph by default:
Shapes
Textboxes 
Form buttons
Frames

And to character
Image
Chart

I would expect everything to behave the same..

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing (see comment #43 for summary at 2020-04-15)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Resolution|--- |FIXED
 Status|NEW |RESOLVED

--- Comment #44 from Heiko Tietze  ---
We discussed this topic in the design meeting with the outcome to resolve this
ticket as fixed and continue the discussion on bug 99646. From the minutes:

 * Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing
   + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720
   + comment 43 summarizes the discussion
   + 1) tdf#87719: does not apply for _to_ character but _as_ (Cor) 
 => resolve as WF / by design
   + 2) fix tdf#102011 (easyhack, some UI tests fail) and tdf#87742 (has been
discussed before)
   + 3) store the last choice (and maybe other settings too) 
 + is it really desirable to remember the last anchoring across documents
and sessions,
   eg. user changes just one image (Cor)
 + tools > option > formatting aids is the alternative, bloats the options
and is not so easy to find (Heiko)
 => do it as an explicit option
 + "hijack" tdf#99646 to and resolve this ticket as fixed
 => agreed
+ 4) solve tdf#82873 / tdf#82873 per style and make one a duplicate of the
other

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing (see comment #43 for summary at 2020-04-15)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

Cor Nouws  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

Summary|Default insert image|Default insert image
   |anchor, wrapping, and   |anchor, wrapping, and
   |spacing (see comment #43|spacing (see comment #43
   |for summary at 2020-05-15)  |for summary at 2020-04-15)

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing (see comment #43 for summary at 2020-05-15)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

Cor Nouws  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

Summary|Default insert image|Default insert image
   |anchor, wrapping, and   |anchor, wrapping, and
   |spacing |spacing (see comment #43
   ||for summary at 2020-05-15)

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #43 from Heiko Tietze  ---
Summarizing, we have in v7 (actually since 6.4)

new defaults:
* Anchor: To Character (drawback: no means to drag, see bug 87719)

remaining defaults:
* Position: Horizontal=Center, Vertical=Top (relevant at bug 87742)
* Wrap: Optimal
* Spacing: 0 (bug 102011)
* Borders: 0

Still in discussion is:
* comment 33: Choose default per tools > options 
  + rather keep the last selection, see bug 109265 and comment 35

So we can resolve as fixed and open another ticket with the RFE to store last
used option (could be done at bug 99646). Or just keep this ticket until it's
done (and make 99646 a duplicate). Or reject this RFE.

Related tickets:
* bug 82873: Default behavior of inserting an image in a list
  + resolve as WFM or introduce special styles)
* bug 45778:  [RFE] Insert image not in a new paragraph but in the current
position or as character
  + make as duplicate to this ticket
* bug 87742: When image anchor is set to 'As Character' it should set vertical
align to top
  + same as bug 82873, WFM or styles

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #42 from Heiko Tietze  ---
(In reply to Xisco Faulí from comment #41)
> @Heiko, or I missing something ?

Wrapping and spacing has not been changed. Based on the patch it could be an
easyhack, I guess.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

Xisco Faulí  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||xiscofa...@libreoffice.org

--- Comment #41 from Xisco Faulí  ---
This issue is fixed since
https://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?h=libreoffice-6-4=d0aa2dbdf37aefe5b8d096fc5ea50cd13f87c5b0

@Heiko, or I missing something ?

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Priority|medium  |high

--- Comment #40 from Heiko Tietze  ---
Importance high due to number on CC and SeeAlso.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #39 from ma...@poczta.onet.pl ---
The bug was first reported in 2003 (did not see earlier one at least), so
probably the best time to fix it would be 2023, or maybe 2053, if not 2103...
Just take your time guys, only thousands of people want it.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

gmoll...@us.es changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||gmoll...@us.es

--- Comment #38 from gmoll...@us.es ---
Image is pasted with default anchor "To character"
It is better default choice the anchor "As character" because the behaviour
that a new user waits.

My LibreOffice: Versión: 6.4.1.2 (x64)
Id. de compilación: 4d224e95b98b138af42a64d84056446d09082932
Subprocs. CPU: 2; SO: Windows 6.1 Service Pack 1 Build 7601; Repres. IU:
predet.; VCL: win; 
Configuración regional: es-ES (es_ES); Idioma de IU: es-ES
Calc: threaded

Thanks.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13
   ||0362

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #37 from Aron Budea  ---
(In reply to Aron Budea from comment #36)
> Good catch, this has actually been set to "To Character" on master since,
> because of the very annoying bug 87719. The commit should be backported to
> 6.4, because it was introduced after branching 6.4.
And now it is:
https://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?h=libreoffice-6-4=d0aa2dbdf37aefe5b8d096fc5ea50cd13f87c5b0

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

Cor Nouws  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

Version|4.5.0.0.alpha0+ Master  |Inherited From OOo

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

Aron Budea  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87
   ||719

--- Comment #36 from Aron Budea  ---
(In reply to DM from comment #33)
> I've come across this old discussion (with recent additions) because it
> seems in 6.4 beta insertion has been changed to "As Character" when before
> it was to paragraph.
Good catch, this has actually been set to "To Character" on master since,
because of the very annoying bug 87719. The commit should be backported to 6.4,
because it was introduced after branching 6.4.

The relevant commits are:
- changing from "To Paragraph" to "As Character"
 
https://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=4f40bf6a79de6d60da0a5090cdfeda6242e889f0
- changing from "As Character" to "To Character"
 
https://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=a7528cd6f17ea5c5b29e7d607e54c62de0d9e7db

(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #35)
> Surprising since UX discussed the topic around the (still open) bug 45778 in
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Meetings/2019-05-15 with the
> suggestion to have an option.
I'd imagine the reason for that is that changing the default equals to flicking
a switch, while introducing an option for it is more work.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #35 from Heiko Tietze  ---
(In reply to DM from comment #33)
> ...6.4 beta insertion has been changed to "As Character" when before
> it was to paragraph.

Surprising since UX discussed the topic around the (still open) bug 45778 in
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Meetings/2019-05-15 with the
suggestion to have an option.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #34 from DM  ---
...looking a bit more closely it wouldn't be so bad if a 'Wrap Through' item
could be successfully placed as an inset over an As Character picture (other
wraps seem to push the picture away), but if you do so you then you can't
select it afterward to adjust it by clicking on it. Sometimes you manage to use
the pointer select tool to catch it in a rectangle if it happens to be in the
right position, but one I'm looking at I can't even do that as it selects the
As Character picture it's lying over. If I want to select the inset picture
that's over it I have to change the As Character one under it to To Paragraph,
do adjustments (which might simply be a case of wanting to move its position)
and change back again the Character As picture, which is all crazy... z-indexes
don't help.
d

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #33 from DM  ---
I've come across this old discussion (with recent additions) because it seems
in 6.4 beta insertion has been changed to "As Character" when before it was to
paragraph.
But there doesn't seem to be a default in the Graphics style to alter this
anchoring default back to paragraph.
Naturally I would like to be able to chose, and the old To Paragraph worked
well for me where I had to overlap small inset images over other images,
whereas this new As Character is a pain as I'm now having to be altering many
images I'm putting in which I didn't have to do before.
In terms of working procedure, a person might want to choose one default and
set in all the pictures in place (eg into Table cells) and then switch to a
different default in order to do many insets over them etc.
d
Version: 6.4.0.0.beta1 (x64)
Build ID: 4d7e5b0c40ed843384704eca3ce21981d4e98920
CPU threads: 2; OS: Windows 10.0 Build 18362; UI render: default; VCL: win; 
Locale: en-GB (en_GB); UI-Language: en-GB
Calc: threaded

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

Ahiijny  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99
   ||646

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||adalbert.hans...@gmx.de

--- Comment #32 from Heiko Tietze  ---
*** Bug 127220 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12
   ||1378

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

Christophe Strobbe  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||c_strobbe-...@yahoo.co.uk

--- Comment #31 from Christophe Strobbe  ---
Another drawback of anchoring images "To paragraph" by default is that this
makes them harder to select by keyboard users. In other words, this issue is
also an accessibility issue.
The Accessible Digital Office Document (ADOD) Project recommends anchoring
images "As Character" : https://adod.idrc.ocadu.ca/oowriter#tech4

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

Alex Thurgood  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11
   ||3168

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

Yousuf Philips (jay)  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Depends on||105302


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=105302
[Bug 105302] An image doesn't stay in a single table cell (and can't added to
it either)
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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

Yousuf Philips (jay)  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Depends on||82873


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=82873
[Bug 82873] Default behaviour of inserting an image in a list
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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

Yousuf Philips (jay)  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||tele...@surfxs.nl

--- Comment #30 from Yousuf Philips (jay)  ---
*** Bug 104320 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #29 from Yousuf Philips (jay)  ---
(In reply to Cor Nouws from comment #28)
> From what I hear from MSOffice-users-experience, that should be the default
> in normal text too.

Well just because that is what MSO defaults to doesnt mean it is the best
solution for users.

The first question that we need to address here is whether users should be able
to move an inserted image or not after inserting, because As Character doesnt
allow this and the other anchor options do.

If i look at my last few documents i created,

1) if i insert an image on a blank line, inserting it as As Character works
fine, and then i center the image if it doesnt take up the complete width of
the document.

2) if i insert an image in a paragraph, inserting it as To Paragraph works
fine, as i normally then resize the image if needed and then right align the
image with the margin.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #28 from Cor Nouws  ---
(In reply to Yousuf Philips (jay) from comment #27)
> Looking at bug 100748, it seems that when inserting an image into a table,
> its default should be to insert it as a character rather then to paragraph.

>From what I hear from MSOffice-users-experience, that should be the default in
normal text too.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #27 from Yousuf Philips (jay)  ---
Looking at bug 100748, it seems that when inserting an image into a table, its
default should be to insert it as a character rather then to paragraph.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

Yousuf Philips (jay)  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks||103152


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=103152
[Bug 103152] [META] Writer image bugs and enhancements
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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

  Component|LibreOffice |Writer

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

Yousuf Philips (jay)  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Depends on||102011


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=102011
[Bug 102011] EDITING: Default wrap spacing to for images is not convenient
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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #26 from Cor Nouws  ---
(In reply to Yousuf Philips (jay) from comment #25)
> @Cor: Not sure how a list of import and export ms doc bugs relates to this
> issue. 

The way in image is anchored by default, influences how it behaves when saved
as Ms.doc(x). It might well be that the default setting has influence on import
of documents (have seen that with another setting in the past.) This issue
therefore is inevitably related with interop.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #25 from Yousuf Philips (jay)  ---
@Cor: Not sure how a list of import and export ms doc bugs relates to this
issue. This issue isnt about interop and it would be no different than a user
setting what we choose as default and import/export with that. We can test to
make sure interop with ms works as expected for whatever we decide is the
default but that wouldnt be the priority of this issue.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #24 from Cor Nouws  ---
(In reply to Yousuf Philips (jay) from comment #23)
> (In reply to Cor Nouws from comment #22)
> > I tried to set it available in my prefs, but that went wrong somehow, Does
> > it work now?
> 
> Still no luck. :(

OK :) 

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/query.cgi?bug_status=UNCONFIRMED_status=NEW_status=ASSIGNED_status=REOPENED=product%2Ccomponent%2Cassigned_to%2Cbug_status%2Cpriority%2Cbug_severity%2Cshort_desc%2Cchangeddate=filters%20and%20storage=Writer=short_desc=short_desc=doc%20docx_type=anywords=anywordssubstr=anywordssubstr=LibreOffice_format=advanced=---=docx%20doc=frame%20image%20object_name=RDC_W_NotResolved_Frame_Image_Object

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #23 from Yousuf Philips (jay)  ---
(In reply to Cor Nouws from comment #22)
> I tried to set it available in my prefs, but that went wrong somehow, Does
> it work now?

Still no luck. :(

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #22 from Cor Nouws  ---
(In reply to Yousuf Philips (jay) from comment #21)

> Got the message "The search named RDC_W_NotResolved_Frame_Image_Object does
> not exist."

I tried to set it available in my prefs, but that went wrong somehow, Does it
work now?

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #21 from Yousuf Philips (jay)  ---
(In reply to Cor Nouws from comment #20)
> FYI
> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/buglist.
> cgi?cmdtype=dorem_id=632697=RDC_W_NotResolved_Frame_Image_Objec
> t=run

Got the message "The search named RDC_W_NotResolved_Frame_Image_Object does not
exist."

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #20 from Cor Nouws  ---
FYI
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/buglist.cgi?cmdtype=dorem_id=632697=RDC_W_NotResolved_Frame_Image_Object=run

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #19 from Yousuf Philips (jay)  ---
(In reply to Cor Nouws from comment #18)
> The way in image is anchored by default, influences how it behaves when
> saved as Ms.doc(x).

Not doubt it does. :D

> It might well be that the default setting has influence on import of
> documents (have seen that with another setting in the past.)

Well that would be an import bug. :D

> I mean wrapping and anchoring as it influences saving as doc(x) and work in
> other office suites.

That is an export issue and the focus here is about setting the best default
for LO users.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #18 from Cor Nouws  ---
Hé :)

(In reply to Yousuf Philips (jay) from comment #17)

> We dont have any interop issues with anchoring and wrapping, so not an issue
> for whatever default we choose.

The way in image is anchored by default, influences how it behaves when saved
as Ms.doc(x).
It might well be that the default setting has influence on import of documents
(have seen that with another setting in the past.)

> As it is wrap spacing, it falls under wrapping which isnt another issue.

I mean wrapping and anchoring as it influences saving as doc(x) and work in
other office suites.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

Yousuf Philips (jay)  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

Summary|Default insert image anchor |Default insert image
   |and wrapping settings   |anchor, wrapping, and
   ||spacing

--- Comment #17 from Yousuf Philips (jay)  ---
(In reply to Cor Nouws from comment #14)
> wrt anchoring and wrapping: would it be an idea to conclude that after more
> investigation wrt interoperability?

We dont have any interop issues with anchoring and wrapping, so not an issue
for whatever default we choose.

> It's not per see sure that 'just' having the same default value as another
> application, makes interoperability better.

The default setting is about choosing what is best for users and not about
interop.

> Then we can keep this issue for that and use another for spacing..

As it is wrap spacing, it falls under wrapping which isnt another issue.

(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #15)
> From bug 102011:
> 
> When wrapping text around an image, the text will touch or almost touch the
> image by default.  To add whitespace one must:

As stated in that bug, using border spacing isnt the way to achieve wrap
spacing, as you would need to first enable borders to be able to then add
border spacing.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||bry...@obviously.com

--- Comment #16 from Heiko Tietze  ---
*** Bug 102011 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #15 from Heiko Tietze  ---
>From bug 102011:

When wrapping text around an image, the text will touch or almost touch the
image by default.  To add whitespace one must:

* Double click on the picture
* Click on "borders"
* Enable a border
* Set line style to something, if it's on none
* Set color to white (or your page background)
* Now, the "spacing to contents" box unghosts.  Check "syncronize" and dial all
four numbers to zero.
* Now uncheck "syncronize" and distance to the direction you need (e.g. left or
right depending on where the image is place).

This workaround has been good for many revisions of libreOffice.  Could it be
made easier?  Having "spacing to contents" start out enabled would be a good
start.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #14 from Cor Nouws  ---
wrt anchoring and wrapping: would it be an idea to conclude that after more
investigation wrt interoperability?
It's not per see sure that 'just' having the same default value as another
application, makes interoperability better.
Then we can keep this issue for that and use another for spacing..

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #12 from Jay Philips philip...@hotmail.com ---
On of the benefits of anchoring 'as character' is that when you add a caption
for the image, the image stays in the frame, rather than being able to move
outside of the frame's borders.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #11 from Jay Philips philip...@hotmail.com ---
Kendy had suggested getting rid of anchor 'to character' and Matthias stated
there were use cases for it and provided the following document as an example.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_FrHYxnQ3axR0pfUzQ2T05FcTgauthuser=0

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #9 from Cor Nouws c...@nouenoff.nl ---
(In reply to Jay Philips from comment #8)

  - is one of the choices more stable in settings when moving the image in the
  document?
 
 Setting anchor to 'To Page', 'To Paragraph' and 'To Character', all act the
 same way when moving an image on a page, only that 'To Page', the image
 doesnt move along with text movement.

I didn't talk about a stable position. I meant when a paragraph moves with an
image in that paragraph. When that crosses a page, at some moment...
Does that differ with one or the other option..

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

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https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #10 from Jay Philips philip...@hotmail.com ---
(In reply to Cor Nouws from comment #9)
 I didn't talk about a stable position. I meant when a paragraph moves with
 an image in that paragraph. When that crosses a page, at some moment...
 Does that differ with one or the other option..

When an image is anchored as 'To Paragraph', 'To Character', or 'As Character'
and the movement from page to page is exactly the same with 'To Paragraph' and
'To Character', while 'As Character' acts different. With 'To Paragraph' and
'To Characer', an image can appear over the page's margin when its position not
enough text from the paragraph has moved onto the previous or next page, while
this doesnt happen with 'As Character'.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #7 from Cor Nouws c...@nouenoff.nl ---
what popup up in my mind (sorry for that ;) ) to check for this issue:

- what is the behaviour when a paragraph with an image crosses the page border,
because of adding/deleting content above it?
- is there a difference when exporting to doc(x)?
- in one of the choices more stable in settings when moving the image in the
document?
Things like that.
Of course this focus is wider then just: what do the others do, but has
important aspects too for user experience.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #8 from Jay Philips philip...@hotmail.com ---
(In reply to Cor Nouws from comment #7)
 - what is the behaviour when a paragraph with an image crosses the page
 border, because of adding/deleting content above it?

Only when an image is anchored 'To Page' does it not move with the content it
is attached to, as its position is fixed on that particular page.

 - is there a difference when exporting to doc(x)?

Doc(x) doesnt translate 1 to 1 between LO's anchor settings (bug 49179).
Microsoft doesnt present users with both anchor and wrap options by default.
They show a list of wrap options, all of which are anchored 'To Character'
though it never shows the anchor in the interface, except for 'In Line' wrap
which is anchored 'As Character'.

 - is one of the choices more stable in settings when moving the image in the
 document?

Setting anchor to 'To Page', 'To Paragraph' and 'To Character', all act the
same way when moving an image on a page, only that 'To Page', the image doesnt
move along with text movement.

 Of course this focus is wider then just: what do the others do, but has
 important aspects too for user experience.

MS Word, iWork and Google Docs use 'To Character' when they allow an image to
be wrapped, but most dont show the anchor position indicator on the page.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

Jay Philips philip...@hotmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

Summary|Default image insert anchor |Default insert image
   |and wrapping|anchor, wrapping, and
   ||spacing

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