[Lift] Re: Question about Lift/Scala & Lift Discussion Board

[Charles F. Munat]

I would split out JPA and Mapper.

Chas.

Artem wrote:
> People have different preferences so you can decide to stay on Google
> Groups or help start the forum.  If you want to help out, the forum
> URL is www.liftforum.com.  If you have other questions about the
> forum, give me a shout at art...@gmail.com.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> On Aug 30, 6:03 pm, Timothy Perrett  wrote:
>> We recently went through such a debate at work trying to decide  
>> between web forum vs mailing list and the end result for us at least  
>> was "it depends". A lot of this is all highly subjective, there is no  
>> right or wrong - both sides need to remember that what works for them  
>> might not work for others. Personally, i prefer mailing lists but am  
>> happy to accept that some people cant / wont / dont use mailing lists  
>> for whatever reasons.
>>
>>  From a project perspective, I think google groups rocks for the  
>> following reasons:
>>
>> - its a mailing list
>> - its a forum of sorts (i.e. you can interact purely from a browser if  
>> you wish)
>> - it has RSS feeds
>> - its hosted remotely, for free.
>> - you just need a google account rather than another stupid login
>>
>> Like i said, there is no right or wrong in the general battle, however  
>> for lift I think that for the outlined reasons above it works and  
>> thats the way it should stay IMO.
>>
>> Cheers, Tim
>>
>> On 30 Aug 2009, at 20:48, marius d. wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Personally I like mailing lists .. I find it easier for me to try to
>>> help people then a traditional forum. For someone who wants to lear
>>> Lit perhaps a more traditional forum is more helpful? ... don't really
>>> know .. I guess it depends on the person.
>>> Br's,
>>> Marius
>>> On Aug 30, 10:10 pm, Artem  wrote:
 The problem is that this Google Group is not user friendly and not
 organized.  I think it will be better to have a user friendly forum
 where everything is organized according to its category and easily
 accessible.  This group is hard to find and hard to search.
 On Aug 30, 3:00 pm, "Charles F. Munat"  wrote:
> Just my two cents, but I think establishing a separate forum at this
> point is a mite premature. What problem, exactly, is it that we're
> trying to solve?
> Chas.
> Naftoli Gugenheim wrote:
>> Once again, I don't see how you can discuss it until you know  
>> that David's fine with it.
>> Personally I haven't read any concrete benefit (I don't know what  
>> "take the load off" or "get more sites out there" mean  
>> practically) that isn't available now between the list an the  
>> wiki---certainly not to outweigh the very clear disadvantage to  
>> both posters, who have that much less of a chance getting an  
>> answer in any one place and may have to ask twice, as well as to  
>> "experts" who can either only monitor one site and leave the  
>> other site with fewer "experts"; or be inconvenienced to monitor  
>> both.
>> How many members are there of the Google Group currently? And  
>> what percentage ever offer answers? Regularly? The lift community  
>> is not as large as many other communities. Does Scala itself have  
>> other forums besides its own lists? If so what is their state?  
>> Certainly the Scala community is much larger than lift's. (Maybe  
>> you should make your forum be a Scala forum, and have a lift  
>> category... But again, I think it's only fair to ask lift's  
>> mastermind first!)
>> -
>> marius d. wrote:
>> My 2 cents if I may ...
>> Although I love this list and this is the official Lift list and
>> support I think it is important to also have other wiki's, forums  
>> etc.
>> out there. Personally I don't see this as a community split. More  
>> and
>> more people are becoming pretty knowledgeable with Lift & Scala
>> sharing information about Lift on other channels ... is nothing  
>> wrong
>> with that .. .quite the opposite. In fact this may take some of the
>> load on this list as community grows.
>> Would be nice though to have a central place where all other  
>> wiki's/
>> forums can be found. For instance serious forums/wikis could be
>> references from lift web-site or even fromthis list in the header
>> section.
>> Br's,
>> Marius
>> On Aug 30, 8:37 am, Naftoli Gugenheim  wrote:
>>> The lift community is not huge. It's David Pollak's brainchild,  
>>> and I don't see how you can discuss creating a forum (after the  
>>> fact) without his okaying it. How can you compare it to an IRC?  
>>> A forum fills much of the same purpose as the list, much more  
>>> than IRC.
>>> Some of the advantages mentioned are better solved by a Wiki.  
>>> (Your volunteering to help with it is much appreciated.)
>>> Searchability - sounds like a bug on Google's part, no? Is 

[Lift] Re: Question about Lift/Scala & Lift Discussion Board

[Margaret]

-
mawei...@gmail.com
13585201588
http://maweis.com




On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 6:31 AM, Artem wrote:
>
> People have different preferences so you can decide to stay on Google
> Groups or help start the forum.  If you want to help out, the forum
> URL is www.liftforum.com.  If you have other questions about the
> forum, give me a shout at art...@gmail.com.
>
> Thanks.
>
> On Aug 30, 6:03 pm, Timothy Perrett  wrote:
>> We recently went through such a debate at work trying to decide
>> between web forum vs mailing list and the end result for us at least
>> was "it depends". A lot of this is all highly subjective, there is no
>> right or wrong - both sides need to remember that what works for them
>> might not work for others. Personally, i prefer mailing lists but am
>> happy to accept that some people cant / wont / dont use mailing lists
>> for whatever reasons.
>>
>>  From a project perspective, I think google groups rocks for the
>> following reasons:
>>
>> - its a mailing list
>> - its a forum of sorts (i.e. you can interact purely from a browser if
>> you wish)
>> - it has RSS feeds
>> - its hosted remotely, for free.
>> - you just need a google account rather than another stupid login
>>
>> Like i said, there is no right or wrong in the general battle, however
>> for lift I think that for the outlined reasons above it works and
>> thats the way it should stay IMO.
>>
>> Cheers, Tim
>>
>> On 30 Aug 2009, at 20:48, marius d. wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > Personally I like mailing lists .. I find it easier for me to try to
>> > help people then a traditional forum. For someone who wants to lear
>> > Lit perhaps a more traditional forum is more helpful? ... don't really
>> > know .. I guess it depends on the person.
>>
>> > Br's,
>> > Marius
>>
>> > On Aug 30, 10:10 pm, Artem  wrote:
>> >> The problem is that this Google Group is not user friendly and not
>> >> organized.  I think it will be better to have a user friendly forum
>> >> where everything is organized according to its category and easily
>> >> accessible.  This group is hard to find and hard to search.
>>
>> >> On Aug 30, 3:00 pm, "Charles F. Munat"  wrote:
>>
>> >>> Just my two cents, but I think establishing a separate forum at this
>> >>> point is a mite premature. What problem, exactly, is it that we're
>> >>> trying to solve?
>>
>> >>> Chas.
>>
>> >>> Naftoli Gugenheim wrote:
>>  Once again, I don't see how you can discuss it until you know
>>  that David's fine with it.
>>  Personally I haven't read any concrete benefit (I don't know what
>>  "take the load off" or "get more sites out there" mean
>>  practically) that isn't available now between the list an the
>>  wiki---certainly not to outweigh the very clear disadvantage to
>>  both posters, who have that much less of a chance getting an
>>  answer in any one place and may have to ask twice, as well as to
>>  "experts" who can either only monitor one site and leave the
>>  other site with fewer "experts"; or be inconvenienced to monitor
>>  both.
>>  How many members are there of the Google Group currently? And
>>  what percentage ever offer answers? Regularly? The lift community
>>  is not as large as many other communities. Does Scala itself have
>>  other forums besides its own lists? If so what is their state?
>>  Certainly the Scala community is much larger than lift's. (Maybe
>>  you should make your forum be a Scala forum, and have a lift
>>  category... But again, I think it's only fair to ask lift's
>>  mastermind first!)
>>
>>  -
>>  marius d. wrote:
>>
>>  My 2 cents if I may ...
>>
>>  Although I love this list and this is the official Lift list and
>>  support I think it is important to also have other wiki's, forums
>>  etc.
>>  out there. Personally I don't see this as a community split. More
>>  and
>>  more people are becoming pretty knowledgeable with Lift & Scala
>>  sharing information about Lift on other channels ... is nothing
>>  wrong
>>  with that .. .quite the opposite. In fact this may take some of the
>>  load on this list as community grows.
>>
>>  Would be nice though to have a central place where all other
>>  wiki's/
>>  forums can be found. For instance serious forums/wikis could be
>>  references from lift web-site or even fromthis list in the header
>>  section.
>>
>>  Br's,
>>  Marius
>>
>>  On Aug 30, 8:37 am, Naftoli Gugenheim  wrote:
>> > The lift community is not huge. It's David Pollak's brainchild,
>> > and I don't see how you can discuss creating a forum (after the
>> > fact) without his okaying it. How can you compare it to an IRC?
>> > A forum fills much of the same purpose as the list, much more
>> > than IRC.
>> > Some of the advantages mentioned are better solved by a Wiki.
>> >>

[Lift] Re: Question about Lift/Scala & Lift Discussion Board

[Artem]

People have different preferences so you can decide to stay on Google
Groups or help start the forum.  If you want to help out, the forum
URL is www.liftforum.com.  If you have other questions about the
forum, give me a shout at art...@gmail.com.

Thanks.

On Aug 30, 6:03 pm, Timothy Perrett  wrote:
> We recently went through such a debate at work trying to decide  
> between web forum vs mailing list and the end result for us at least  
> was "it depends". A lot of this is all highly subjective, there is no  
> right or wrong - both sides need to remember that what works for them  
> might not work for others. Personally, i prefer mailing lists but am  
> happy to accept that some people cant / wont / dont use mailing lists  
> for whatever reasons.
>
>  From a project perspective, I think google groups rocks for the  
> following reasons:
>
> - its a mailing list
> - its a forum of sorts (i.e. you can interact purely from a browser if  
> you wish)
> - it has RSS feeds
> - its hosted remotely, for free.
> - you just need a google account rather than another stupid login
>
> Like i said, there is no right or wrong in the general battle, however  
> for lift I think that for the outlined reasons above it works and  
> thats the way it should stay IMO.
>
> Cheers, Tim
>
> On 30 Aug 2009, at 20:48, marius d. wrote:
>
>
>
> > Personally I like mailing lists .. I find it easier for me to try to
> > help people then a traditional forum. For someone who wants to lear
> > Lit perhaps a more traditional forum is more helpful? ... don't really
> > know .. I guess it depends on the person.
>
> > Br's,
> > Marius
>
> > On Aug 30, 10:10 pm, Artem  wrote:
> >> The problem is that this Google Group is not user friendly and not
> >> organized.  I think it will be better to have a user friendly forum
> >> where everything is organized according to its category and easily
> >> accessible.  This group is hard to find and hard to search.
>
> >> On Aug 30, 3:00 pm, "Charles F. Munat"  wrote:
>
> >>> Just my two cents, but I think establishing a separate forum at this
> >>> point is a mite premature. What problem, exactly, is it that we're
> >>> trying to solve?
>
> >>> Chas.
>
> >>> Naftoli Gugenheim wrote:
>  Once again, I don't see how you can discuss it until you know  
>  that David's fine with it.
>  Personally I haven't read any concrete benefit (I don't know what  
>  "take the load off" or "get more sites out there" mean  
>  practically) that isn't available now between the list an the  
>  wiki---certainly not to outweigh the very clear disadvantage to  
>  both posters, who have that much less of a chance getting an  
>  answer in any one place and may have to ask twice, as well as to  
>  "experts" who can either only monitor one site and leave the  
>  other site with fewer "experts"; or be inconvenienced to monitor  
>  both.
>  How many members are there of the Google Group currently? And  
>  what percentage ever offer answers? Regularly? The lift community  
>  is not as large as many other communities. Does Scala itself have  
>  other forums besides its own lists? If so what is their state?  
>  Certainly the Scala community is much larger than lift's. (Maybe  
>  you should make your forum be a Scala forum, and have a lift  
>  category... But again, I think it's only fair to ask lift's  
>  mastermind first!)
>
>  -
>  marius d. wrote:
>
>  My 2 cents if I may ...
>
>  Although I love this list and this is the official Lift list and
>  support I think it is important to also have other wiki's, forums  
>  etc.
>  out there. Personally I don't see this as a community split. More  
>  and
>  more people are becoming pretty knowledgeable with Lift & Scala
>  sharing information about Lift on other channels ... is nothing  
>  wrong
>  with that .. .quite the opposite. In fact this may take some of the
>  load on this list as community grows.
>
>  Would be nice though to have a central place where all other  
>  wiki's/
>  forums can be found. For instance serious forums/wikis could be
>  references from lift web-site or even fromthis list in the header
>  section.
>
>  Br's,
>  Marius
>
>  On Aug 30, 8:37 am, Naftoli Gugenheim  wrote:
> > The lift community is not huge. It's David Pollak's brainchild,  
> > and I don't see how you can discuss creating a forum (after the  
> > fact) without his okaying it. How can you compare it to an IRC?  
> > A forum fills much of the same purpose as the list, much more  
> > than IRC.
> > Some of the advantages mentioned are better solved by a Wiki.  
> > (Your volunteering to help with it is much appreciated.)
> > Searchability - sounds like a bug on Google's part, no? Is there  
> > a Group for discussing Google Groups? In any case, it's  
>

[Lift] Re: Question about Lift/Scala & Lift Discussion Board

[Naftoli Gugenheim]

Apparently there is a Google Group for Google Groups: the Google Groups Help
Forum 
It
seems many people have noticed the search bug.
Maybe if a lot of people post over there complaining it will help get a
response from Google faster...


On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 6:03 PM, Timothy Perrett wrote:

>
> We recently went through such a debate at work trying to decide
> between web forum vs mailing list and the end result for us at least
> was "it depends". A lot of this is all highly subjective, there is no
> right or wrong - both sides need to remember that what works for them
> might not work for others. Personally, i prefer mailing lists but am
> happy to accept that some people cant / wont / dont use mailing lists
> for whatever reasons.
>
>  From a project perspective, I think google groups rocks for the
> following reasons:
>
> - its a mailing list
> - its a forum of sorts (i.e. you can interact purely from a browser if
> you wish)
> - it has RSS feeds
> - its hosted remotely, for free.
> - you just need a google account rather than another stupid login
>
> Like i said, there is no right or wrong in the general battle, however
> for lift I think that for the outlined reasons above it works and
> thats the way it should stay IMO.
>
> Cheers, Tim
>
>
>
> On 30 Aug 2009, at 20:48, marius d. wrote:
>
> >
> > Personally I like mailing lists .. I find it easier for me to try to
> > help people then a traditional forum. For someone who wants to lear
> > Lit perhaps a more traditional forum is more helpful? ... don't really
> > know .. I guess it depends on the person.
> >
> > Br's,
> > Marius
> >
> > On Aug 30, 10:10 pm, Artem  wrote:
> >> The problem is that this Google Group is not user friendly and not
> >> organized.  I think it will be better to have a user friendly forum
> >> where everything is organized according to its category and easily
> >> accessible.  This group is hard to find and hard to search.
> >>
> >> On Aug 30, 3:00 pm, "Charles F. Munat"  wrote:
> >>
> >>> Just my two cents, but I think establishing a separate forum at this
> >>> point is a mite premature. What problem, exactly, is it that we're
> >>> trying to solve?
> >>
> >>> Chas.
> >>
> >>> Naftoli Gugenheim wrote:
>  Once again, I don't see how you can discuss it until you know
>  that David's fine with it.
>  Personally I haven't read any concrete benefit (I don't know what
>  "take the load off" or "get more sites out there" mean
>  practically) that isn't available now between the list an the
>  wiki---certainly not to outweigh the very clear disadvantage to
>  both posters, who have that much less of a chance getting an
>  answer in any one place and may have to ask twice, as well as to
>  "experts" who can either only monitor one site and leave the
>  other site with fewer "experts"; or be inconvenienced to monitor
>  both.
>  How many members are there of the Google Group currently? And
>  what percentage ever offer answers? Regularly? The lift community
>  is not as large as many other communities. Does Scala itself have
>  other forums besides its own lists? If so what is their state?
>  Certainly the Scala community is much larger than lift's. (Maybe
>  you should make your forum be a Scala forum, and have a lift
>  category... But again, I think it's only fair to ask lift's
>  mastermind first!)
> >>
>  -
>  marius d. wrote:
> >>
>  My 2 cents if I may ...
> >>
>  Although I love this list and this is the official Lift list and
>  support I think it is important to also have other wiki's, forums
>  etc.
>  out there. Personally I don't see this as a community split. More
>  and
>  more people are becoming pretty knowledgeable with Lift & Scala
>  sharing information about Lift on other channels ... is nothing
>  wrong
>  with that .. .quite the opposite. In fact this may take some of the
>  load on this list as community grows.
> >>
>  Would be nice though to have a central place where all other
>  wiki's/
>  forums can be found. For instance serious forums/wikis could be
>  references from lift web-site or even fromthis list in the header
>  section.
> >>
>  Br's,
>  Marius
> >>
>  On Aug 30, 8:37 am, Naftoli Gugenheim  wrote:
> > The lift community is not huge. It's David Pollak's brainchild,
> > and I don't see how you can discuss creating a forum (after the
> > fact) without his okaying it. How can you compare it to an IRC?
> > A forum fills much of the same purpose as the list, much more
> > than IRC.
> > Some of the advantages mentioned are better solved by a Wiki.
> > (Your volunteering to help with it is much appreciated.)
> > Searchability - sounds like a bug on Google's part, no? Is there
>

[Lift] Re: Question about Lift/Scala & Lift Discussion Board

[Timothy Perrett]

We recently went through such a debate at work trying to decide  
between web forum vs mailing list and the end result for us at least  
was "it depends". A lot of this is all highly subjective, there is no  
right or wrong - both sides need to remember that what works for them  
might not work for others. Personally, i prefer mailing lists but am  
happy to accept that some people cant / wont / dont use mailing lists  
for whatever reasons.

 From a project perspective, I think google groups rocks for the  
following reasons:

- its a mailing list
- its a forum of sorts (i.e. you can interact purely from a browser if  
you wish)
- it has RSS feeds
- its hosted remotely, for free.
- you just need a google account rather than another stupid login

Like i said, there is no right or wrong in the general battle, however  
for lift I think that for the outlined reasons above it works and  
thats the way it should stay IMO.

Cheers, Tim



On 30 Aug 2009, at 20:48, marius d. wrote:

>
> Personally I like mailing lists .. I find it easier for me to try to
> help people then a traditional forum. For someone who wants to lear
> Lit perhaps a more traditional forum is more helpful? ... don't really
> know .. I guess it depends on the person.
>
> Br's,
> Marius
>
> On Aug 30, 10:10 pm, Artem  wrote:
>> The problem is that this Google Group is not user friendly and not
>> organized.  I think it will be better to have a user friendly forum
>> where everything is organized according to its category and easily
>> accessible.  This group is hard to find and hard to search.
>>
>> On Aug 30, 3:00 pm, "Charles F. Munat"  wrote:
>>
>>> Just my two cents, but I think establishing a separate forum at this
>>> point is a mite premature. What problem, exactly, is it that we're
>>> trying to solve?
>>
>>> Chas.
>>
>>> Naftoli Gugenheim wrote:
 Once again, I don't see how you can discuss it until you know  
 that David's fine with it.
 Personally I haven't read any concrete benefit (I don't know what  
 "take the load off" or "get more sites out there" mean  
 practically) that isn't available now between the list an the  
 wiki---certainly not to outweigh the very clear disadvantage to  
 both posters, who have that much less of a chance getting an  
 answer in any one place and may have to ask twice, as well as to  
 "experts" who can either only monitor one site and leave the  
 other site with fewer "experts"; or be inconvenienced to monitor  
 both.
 How many members are there of the Google Group currently? And  
 what percentage ever offer answers? Regularly? The lift community  
 is not as large as many other communities. Does Scala itself have  
 other forums besides its own lists? If so what is their state?  
 Certainly the Scala community is much larger than lift's. (Maybe  
 you should make your forum be a Scala forum, and have a lift  
 category... But again, I think it's only fair to ask lift's  
 mastermind first!)
>>
 -
 marius d. wrote:
>>
 My 2 cents if I may ...
>>
 Although I love this list and this is the official Lift list and
 support I think it is important to also have other wiki's, forums  
 etc.
 out there. Personally I don't see this as a community split. More  
 and
 more people are becoming pretty knowledgeable with Lift & Scala
 sharing information about Lift on other channels ... is nothing  
 wrong
 with that .. .quite the opposite. In fact this may take some of the
 load on this list as community grows.
>>
 Would be nice though to have a central place where all other  
 wiki's/
 forums can be found. For instance serious forums/wikis could be
 references from lift web-site or even fromthis list in the header
 section.
>>
 Br's,
 Marius
>>
 On Aug 30, 8:37 am, Naftoli Gugenheim  wrote:
> The lift community is not huge. It's David Pollak's brainchild,  
> and I don't see how you can discuss creating a forum (after the  
> fact) without his okaying it. How can you compare it to an IRC?  
> A forum fills much of the same purpose as the list, much more  
> than IRC.
> Some of the advantages mentioned are better solved by a Wiki.  
> (Your volunteering to help with it is much appreciated.)
> Searchability - sounds like a bug on Google's part, no? Is there  
> a Group for discussing Google Groups? In any case, it's  
> addressed by services like MarkMail. Isn't Nabbles searchable?
> Duplicate questions - forums don't completely solve this.  
> Searchability would help, as will the Wiki as it grows.
> Stickies - Google Groups doesn't allow stickies?
> Syntax highlighting/formatting; organization - the way I see it,  
> you can draw a continuum with IRC being the most transient and a  
> Wiki etc. the most permanent, with a mailing list, a Google  

[Lift] Re: Question about Lift/Scala & Lift Discussion Board

[Naftoli Gugenheim]

-
Charles F. Munat wrote:


So is that an "instead of" argument? Or an "in addition to"?

Chas.

Artem wrote:
> The problem is that this Google Group is not user friendly and not
> organized.  I think it will be better to have a user friendly forum
> where everything is organized according to its category and easily
> accessible.  This group is hard to find and hard to search.
> 
> On Aug 30, 3:00 pm, "Charles F. Munat"  wrote:
>> Just my two cents, but I think establishing a separate forum at this
>> point is a mite premature. What problem, exactly, is it that we're
>> trying to solve?
>>
>> Chas.
>>
>> Naftoli Gugenheim wrote:
>>> Once again, I don't see how you can discuss it until you know that David's 
>>> fine with it.
>>> Personally I haven't read any concrete benefit (I don't know what "take the 
>>> load off" or "get more sites out there" mean practically) that isn't 
>>> available now between the list an the wiki---certainly not to outweigh the 
>>> very clear disadvantage to both posters, who have that much less of a 
>>> chance getting an answer in any one place and may have to ask twice, as 
>>> well as to "experts" who can either only monitor one site and leave the 
>>> other site with fewer "experts"; or be inconvenienced to monitor both.
>>> How many members are there of the Google Group currently? And what 
>>> percentage ever offer answers? Regularly? The lift community is not as 
>>> large as many other communities. Does Scala itself have other forums 
>>> besides its own lists? If so what is their state? Certainly the Scala 
>>> community is much larger than lift's. (Maybe you should make your forum be 
>>> a Scala forum, and have a lift category... But again, I think it's only 
>>> fair to ask lift's mastermind first!)
>>> -
>>> marius d. wrote:
>>> My 2 cents if I may ...
>>> Although I love this list and this is the official Lift list and
>>> support I think it is important to also have other wiki's, forums etc.
>>> out there. Personally I don't see this as a community split. More and
>>> more people are becoming pretty knowledgeable with Lift & Scala
>>> sharing information about Lift on other channels ... is nothing wrong
>>> with that .. .quite the opposite. In fact this may take some of the
>>> load on this list as community grows.
>>> Would be nice though to have a central place where all other wiki's/
>>> forums can be found. For instance serious forums/wikis could be
>>> references from lift web-site or even fromthis list in the header
>>> section.
>>> Br's,
>>> Marius
>>> On Aug 30, 8:37 am, Naftoli Gugenheim  wrote:
 The lift community is not huge. It's David Pollak's brainchild, and I 
 don't see how you can discuss creating a forum (after the fact) without 
 his okaying it. How can you compare it to an IRC? A forum fills much of 
 the same purpose as the list, much more than IRC.
 Some of the advantages mentioned are better solved by a Wiki. (Your 
 volunteering to help with it is much appreciated.)
 Searchability - sounds like a bug on Google's part, no? Is there a Group 
 for discussing Google Groups? In any case, it's addressed by services like 
 MarkMail. Isn't Nabbles searchable?
 Duplicate questions - forums don't completely solve this. Searchability 
 would help, as will the Wiki as it grows.
 Stickies - Google Groups doesn't allow stickies?
 Syntax highlighting/formatting; organization - the way I see it, you can 
 draw a continuum with IRC being the most transient and a Wiki etc. the 
 most permanent, with a mailing list, a Google Groups mailng list, and a 
 forum falling in between, in increasing order of 
 permanence/organizability. As you go from left to right you get more of 
 these features, but a forum is still less than a Wiki. On the other hand 
 as you go right to left you get more "dynamic"/on the fly--you just write 
 a question without worrying about organization or formatting.
 Does that make sense?
 -
 Xavi Ramirez wrote:
 I applaud Artem's initiative!
 The mailing list has undoubtedly been an extremely helpful resource.
 That said, a mailing lists in general have several short comings:
 - Hard to search through
 - Many duplicate questions
 - No stickies
 - No syntax highlighting and few formatting options
 - Little to no message organization
 - Few moderation tools
 A forum could be a nice way to address these issues, so it might be
 worth a try.  Also I think introducing a forum is anymore likely to
 splinter than an IRC chat room.
 Just my two cents.
 -Xavi
 On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 8:22 PM, Timothy Perrett 
 wrote:
> Agreed (and +1) - Personally I actually prefer mailing lists full stop
> because it involves no web site trawling to get to the topics one is
> after...
> C

[Lift] Re: Question about Lift/Scala & Lift Discussion Board

[Charles F. Munat]

So is that an "instead of" argument? Or an "in addition to"?

Chas.

Artem wrote:
> The problem is that this Google Group is not user friendly and not
> organized.  I think it will be better to have a user friendly forum
> where everything is organized according to its category and easily
> accessible.  This group is hard to find and hard to search.
> 
> On Aug 30, 3:00 pm, "Charles F. Munat"  wrote:
>> Just my two cents, but I think establishing a separate forum at this
>> point is a mite premature. What problem, exactly, is it that we're
>> trying to solve?
>>
>> Chas.
>>
>> Naftoli Gugenheim wrote:
>>> Once again, I don't see how you can discuss it until you know that David's 
>>> fine with it.
>>> Personally I haven't read any concrete benefit (I don't know what "take the 
>>> load off" or "get more sites out there" mean practically) that isn't 
>>> available now between the list an the wiki---certainly not to outweigh the 
>>> very clear disadvantage to both posters, who have that much less of a 
>>> chance getting an answer in any one place and may have to ask twice, as 
>>> well as to "experts" who can either only monitor one site and leave the 
>>> other site with fewer "experts"; or be inconvenienced to monitor both.
>>> How many members are there of the Google Group currently? And what 
>>> percentage ever offer answers? Regularly? The lift community is not as 
>>> large as many other communities. Does Scala itself have other forums 
>>> besides its own lists? If so what is their state? Certainly the Scala 
>>> community is much larger than lift's. (Maybe you should make your forum be 
>>> a Scala forum, and have a lift category... But again, I think it's only 
>>> fair to ask lift's mastermind first!)
>>> -
>>> marius d. wrote:
>>> My 2 cents if I may ...
>>> Although I love this list and this is the official Lift list and
>>> support I think it is important to also have other wiki's, forums etc.
>>> out there. Personally I don't see this as a community split. More and
>>> more people are becoming pretty knowledgeable with Lift & Scala
>>> sharing information about Lift on other channels ... is nothing wrong
>>> with that .. .quite the opposite. In fact this may take some of the
>>> load on this list as community grows.
>>> Would be nice though to have a central place where all other wiki's/
>>> forums can be found. For instance serious forums/wikis could be
>>> references from lift web-site or even fromthis list in the header
>>> section.
>>> Br's,
>>> Marius
>>> On Aug 30, 8:37 am, Naftoli Gugenheim  wrote:
 The lift community is not huge. It's David Pollak's brainchild, and I 
 don't see how you can discuss creating a forum (after the fact) without 
 his okaying it. How can you compare it to an IRC? A forum fills much of 
 the same purpose as the list, much more than IRC.
 Some of the advantages mentioned are better solved by a Wiki. (Your 
 volunteering to help with it is much appreciated.)
 Searchability - sounds like a bug on Google's part, no? Is there a Group 
 for discussing Google Groups? In any case, it's addressed by services like 
 MarkMail. Isn't Nabbles searchable?
 Duplicate questions - forums don't completely solve this. Searchability 
 would help, as will the Wiki as it grows.
 Stickies - Google Groups doesn't allow stickies?
 Syntax highlighting/formatting; organization - the way I see it, you can 
 draw a continuum with IRC being the most transient and a Wiki etc. the 
 most permanent, with a mailing list, a Google Groups mailng list, and a 
 forum falling in between, in increasing order of 
 permanence/organizability. As you go from left to right you get more of 
 these features, but a forum is still less than a Wiki. On the other hand 
 as you go right to left you get more "dynamic"/on the fly--you just write 
 a question without worrying about organization or formatting.
 Does that make sense?
 -
 Xavi Ramirez wrote:
 I applaud Artem's initiative!
 The mailing list has undoubtedly been an extremely helpful resource.
 That said, a mailing lists in general have several short comings:
 - Hard to search through
 - Many duplicate questions
 - No stickies
 - No syntax highlighting and few formatting options
 - Little to no message organization
 - Few moderation tools
 A forum could be a nice way to address these issues, so it might be
 worth a try.  Also I think introducing a forum is anymore likely to
 splinter than an IRC chat room.
 Just my two cents.
 -Xavi
 On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 8:22 PM, Timothy Perrett 
 wrote:
> Agreed (and +1) - Personally I actually prefer mailing lists full stop
> because it involves no web site trawling to get to the topics one is
> after...
> Cheers, Tim
> On 30/08/2009 01:20, "TylerWeir"  wrote:
>> 

[Lift] Re: Question about Lift/Scala & Lift Discussion Board

[marius d.]

Personally I like mailing lists .. I find it easier for me to try to
help people then a traditional forum. For someone who wants to lear
Lit perhaps a more traditional forum is more helpful? ... don't really
know .. I guess it depends on the person.

Br's,
Marius

On Aug 30, 10:10 pm, Artem  wrote:
> The problem is that this Google Group is not user friendly and not
> organized.  I think it will be better to have a user friendly forum
> where everything is organized according to its category and easily
> accessible.  This group is hard to find and hard to search.
>
> On Aug 30, 3:00 pm, "Charles F. Munat"  wrote:
>
> > Just my two cents, but I think establishing a separate forum at this
> > point is a mite premature. What problem, exactly, is it that we're
> > trying to solve?
>
> > Chas.
>
> > Naftoli Gugenheim wrote:
> > > Once again, I don't see how you can discuss it until you know that 
> > > David's fine with it.
> > > Personally I haven't read any concrete benefit (I don't know what "take 
> > > the load off" or "get more sites out there" mean practically) that isn't 
> > > available now between the list an the wiki---certainly not to outweigh 
> > > the very clear disadvantage to both posters, who have that much less of a 
> > > chance getting an answer in any one place and may have to ask twice, as 
> > > well as to "experts" who can either only monitor one site and leave the 
> > > other site with fewer "experts"; or be inconvenienced to monitor both.
> > > How many members are there of the Google Group currently? And what 
> > > percentage ever offer answers? Regularly? The lift community is not as 
> > > large as many other communities. Does Scala itself have other forums 
> > > besides its own lists? If so what is their state? Certainly the Scala 
> > > community is much larger than lift's. (Maybe you should make your forum 
> > > be a Scala forum, and have a lift category... But again, I think it's 
> > > only fair to ask lift's mastermind first!)
>
> > > -
> > > marius d. wrote:
>
> > > My 2 cents if I may ...
>
> > > Although I love this list and this is the official Lift list and
> > > support I think it is important to also have other wiki's, forums etc.
> > > out there. Personally I don't see this as a community split. More and
> > > more people are becoming pretty knowledgeable with Lift & Scala
> > > sharing information about Lift on other channels ... is nothing wrong
> > > with that .. .quite the opposite. In fact this may take some of the
> > > load on this list as community grows.
>
> > > Would be nice though to have a central place where all other wiki's/
> > > forums can be found. For instance serious forums/wikis could be
> > > references from lift web-site or even fromthis list in the header
> > > section.
>
> > > Br's,
> > > Marius
>
> > > On Aug 30, 8:37 am, Naftoli Gugenheim  wrote:
> > >> The lift community is not huge. It's David Pollak's brainchild, and I 
> > >> don't see how you can discuss creating a forum (after the fact) without 
> > >> his okaying it. How can you compare it to an IRC? A forum fills much of 
> > >> the same purpose as the list, much more than IRC.
> > >> Some of the advantages mentioned are better solved by a Wiki. (Your 
> > >> volunteering to help with it is much appreciated.)
> > >> Searchability - sounds like a bug on Google's part, no? Is there a Group 
> > >> for discussing Google Groups? In any case, it's addressed by services 
> > >> like MarkMail. Isn't Nabbles searchable?
> > >> Duplicate questions - forums don't completely solve this. Searchability 
> > >> would help, as will the Wiki as it grows.
> > >> Stickies - Google Groups doesn't allow stickies?
> > >> Syntax highlighting/formatting; organization - the way I see it, you can 
> > >> draw a continuum with IRC being the most transient and a Wiki etc. the 
> > >> most permanent, with a mailing list, a Google Groups mailng list, and a 
> > >> forum falling in between, in increasing order of 
> > >> permanence/organizability. As you go from left to right you get more of 
> > >> these features, but a forum is still less than a Wiki. On the other hand 
> > >> as you go right to left you get more "dynamic"/on the fly--you just 
> > >> write a question without worrying about organization or formatting.
> > >> Does that make sense?
>
> > >> -
>
> > >> Xavi Ramirez wrote:
>
> > >> I applaud Artem's initiative!
>
> > >> The mailing list has undoubtedly been an extremely helpful resource.
> > >> That said, a mailing lists in general have several short comings:
>
> > >> - Hard to search through
> > >> - Many duplicate questions
> > >> - No stickies
> > >> - No syntax highlighting and few formatting options
> > >> - Little to no message organization
> > >> - Few moderation tools
>
> > >> A forum could be a nice way to address these issues, so it might be
> > >> worth a try.  Also I think introducing a forum is anymore likely t

[Lift] Re: Question about Lift/Scala & Lift Discussion Board

[Jeppe Nejsum Madsen]

Artem  writes:

> The problem is that this Google Group is not user friendly and not
> organized.  I think it will be better to have a user friendly forum
> where everything is organized according to its category and easily
> accessible. 

Probably depends on your definition of user friendly. Personally, I
would never frequent a forum on a regular basis (if it turns up in a
google search, fine!). I follow quite a few mailing lists and, being
email, they all appear to me in a uniform way, in my mail client (I
don't use the google groups web interface).

But if a new forum pops up and can answer some Lift questions that is
great. The more the merrier!

There does seem to be a problem with search on google groups though :-)

/Jeppe

--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Lift" group.
To post to this group, send email to liftweb@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
liftweb+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/liftweb?hl=en
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[Lift] Re: Question about Lift/Scala & Lift Discussion Board

[Artem]

The problem is that this Google Group is not user friendly and not
organized.  I think it will be better to have a user friendly forum
where everything is organized according to its category and easily
accessible.  This group is hard to find and hard to search.

On Aug 30, 3:00 pm, "Charles F. Munat"  wrote:
> Just my two cents, but I think establishing a separate forum at this
> point is a mite premature. What problem, exactly, is it that we're
> trying to solve?
>
> Chas.
>
> Naftoli Gugenheim wrote:
> > Once again, I don't see how you can discuss it until you know that David's 
> > fine with it.
> > Personally I haven't read any concrete benefit (I don't know what "take the 
> > load off" or "get more sites out there" mean practically) that isn't 
> > available now between the list an the wiki---certainly not to outweigh the 
> > very clear disadvantage to both posters, who have that much less of a 
> > chance getting an answer in any one place and may have to ask twice, as 
> > well as to "experts" who can either only monitor one site and leave the 
> > other site with fewer "experts"; or be inconvenienced to monitor both.
> > How many members are there of the Google Group currently? And what 
> > percentage ever offer answers? Regularly? The lift community is not as 
> > large as many other communities. Does Scala itself have other forums 
> > besides its own lists? If so what is their state? Certainly the Scala 
> > community is much larger than lift's. (Maybe you should make your forum be 
> > a Scala forum, and have a lift category... But again, I think it's only 
> > fair to ask lift's mastermind first!)
>
> > -
> > marius d. wrote:
>
> > My 2 cents if I may ...
>
> > Although I love this list and this is the official Lift list and
> > support I think it is important to also have other wiki's, forums etc.
> > out there. Personally I don't see this as a community split. More and
> > more people are becoming pretty knowledgeable with Lift & Scala
> > sharing information about Lift on other channels ... is nothing wrong
> > with that .. .quite the opposite. In fact this may take some of the
> > load on this list as community grows.
>
> > Would be nice though to have a central place where all other wiki's/
> > forums can be found. For instance serious forums/wikis could be
> > references from lift web-site or even fromthis list in the header
> > section.
>
> > Br's,
> > Marius
>
> > On Aug 30, 8:37 am, Naftoli Gugenheim  wrote:
> >> The lift community is not huge. It's David Pollak's brainchild, and I 
> >> don't see how you can discuss creating a forum (after the fact) without 
> >> his okaying it. How can you compare it to an IRC? A forum fills much of 
> >> the same purpose as the list, much more than IRC.
> >> Some of the advantages mentioned are better solved by a Wiki. (Your 
> >> volunteering to help with it is much appreciated.)
> >> Searchability - sounds like a bug on Google's part, no? Is there a Group 
> >> for discussing Google Groups? In any case, it's addressed by services like 
> >> MarkMail. Isn't Nabbles searchable?
> >> Duplicate questions - forums don't completely solve this. Searchability 
> >> would help, as will the Wiki as it grows.
> >> Stickies - Google Groups doesn't allow stickies?
> >> Syntax highlighting/formatting; organization - the way I see it, you can 
> >> draw a continuum with IRC being the most transient and a Wiki etc. the 
> >> most permanent, with a mailing list, a Google Groups mailng list, and a 
> >> forum falling in between, in increasing order of 
> >> permanence/organizability. As you go from left to right you get more of 
> >> these features, but a forum is still less than a Wiki. On the other hand 
> >> as you go right to left you get more "dynamic"/on the fly--you just write 
> >> a question without worrying about organization or formatting.
> >> Does that make sense?
>
> >> -
>
> >> Xavi Ramirez wrote:
>
> >> I applaud Artem's initiative!
>
> >> The mailing list has undoubtedly been an extremely helpful resource.
> >> That said, a mailing lists in general have several short comings:
>
> >> - Hard to search through
> >> - Many duplicate questions
> >> - No stickies
> >> - No syntax highlighting and few formatting options
> >> - Little to no message organization
> >> - Few moderation tools
>
> >> A forum could be a nice way to address these issues, so it might be
> >> worth a try.  Also I think introducing a forum is anymore likely to
> >> splinter than an IRC chat room.
>
> >> Just my two cents.
>
> >> -Xavi
>
> >> On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 8:22 PM, Timothy Perrett 
> >> wrote:
>
> >>> Agreed (and +1) - Personally I actually prefer mailing lists full stop
> >>> because it involves no web site trawling to get to the topics one is
> >>> after...
> >>> Cheers, Tim
> >>> On 30/08/2009 01:20, "TylerWeir"  wrote:
>  I'm not really sure how splintering the community is going to help.
>

[Lift] Re: Question about Lift/Scala & Lift Discussion Board

[Charles F. Munat]

More than 1300 people? Really? Wow. Well, then maybe a second forum 
isn't premature. Man, I had no idea. When did that happen?

Chas.

David Pollak wrote:
> 
> 
> On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 3:59 PM, Artem  > wrote:
> 
> 
> Hey!
> 
> I stumbled on Lift a couple weeks ago and have been messing around
> with it a lot!  I am a Ruby on Rails programmer and it seems like Ruby
> is doing a fine job serving the web programmers community.  Recently,
> I read an article about Twitter running RoR and it crashing after a
> while.  They decided to switch to Scala because it's scalable unlike
> Ruby.  I am planning on developing a large website that will require
> lots of CPU/Database usage and I was wondering if Scala/Lift is the
> way to do it?
> 
> I'm not a fan of Google Groups, they are not very user friendly, so I
> created a forum specially for Lift developers that like to discuss
> topics about the Scala/Lift programming language.  If you want to help
> start the forum and post a couple topics I would greatly appreciate
> it.  The link is http://www.liftforum.com .  It's a new forum so there
> isn't much content on it yet.
> 
> 
> 
> I am totally cool with different forums for discussion Lift and Scala. 
>  That's all cool.
> 
> I will continue to treat this forum as my primary place to help folks 
> and I will encourage the Lift committers to support newbies on this 
> forum and to have Lift related discussions (what features, how we add 
> them, etc.) on this forum.
> 
> Personally, I have not had a lot of issues with repeat questions.  The 
> more times people ask the same questions, the more it points out that 
> either (1) we didn't do a particular feature correctly or (2) we need to 
> add something to the Lift wiki or other documentation.
> 
> I am personally not a fan of forum software... I find that mailing lists 
> (via gmail) with a web-basic history to be ideal and thus Google groups 
> was my choice.  I'm open to other options for the primary Lift support 
> forum.  We've moved source repositories and wikis a few times.  Moving 
> this forum elsewhere is not off the table.
> 
> In terms of the use of the term "Lift", I want to let you know that 
> there will probably be some trademark assertions on the word "Lift" 
> related to computer programs (I'm not sure the exact trademark 
> category.)  So, in the near future, I may ask you not to use the work 
> "Lift" as a primary designator for the forum.
> 
> I don't see a split as a bad thing.  The Lift community numbers > 1,300 
> people and is the largest Scala-related community.  We may not be 
> optimal for providing support to all users of Lift and I welcome other 
> ways to help people build great web sites with Lift.  By all means, find 
> ways to help people do better thing with Lift.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> David
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net
> Beginning Scala http://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890
> Follow me: http://twitter.com/dpp
> Git some: http://github.com/dpp
> 
> > 

--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Lift" group.
To post to this group, send email to liftweb@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
liftweb+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/liftweb?hl=en
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[Lift] Re: Question about Lift/Scala & Lift Discussion Board

[Charles F. Munat]

I agree that it's kind of silly to talk about DPP's approval. This isn't 
source code related. Anyone can establish any forum he or she wants to, 
and if someone wants a separate Lift forum . . .

The question, then, in my mind is whether adding a forum adds some 
needed capability (or visibility) or whether it just splits the group 
unnecessarily. As for mailing lists, I'm on several for a variety of 
languages and applications. What exactly does a forum get us? And if 
that's worth having, then is it better to have the forum in addition to 
the mailing list, or instead of it?

Chas.

marius d. wrote:
> What? ... Is there on ONE forum about Java, Scala, Spring, Rail
> etc? ... did all Java forums needed James Gosling approval ? .. Come
> on .. So yes people can talk about it make they own
> wikis,forums,blogs ... internet is free you know. I have tons of
> respect for David and this community and I don't need to write this
> down here but IMO let people know about Lift & Scala by whatever
> means. It doesn't have to be a single information channel.
> 
> I hate when I see such a dictatorial attitude about things ...
> 
> Br's,
> Marius
> 
> On Aug 30, 4:20 pm, Naftoli Gugenheim  wrote:
>> Once again, I don't see how you can discuss it until you know that David's 
>> fine with it.
>> Personally I haven't read any concrete benefit (I don't know what "take the 
>> load off" or "get more sites out there" mean practically) that isn't 
>> available now between the list an the wiki---certainly not to outweigh the 
>> very clear disadvantage to both posters, who have that much less of a chance 
>> getting an answer in any one place and may have to ask twice, as well as to 
>> "experts" who can either only monitor one site and leave the other site with 
>> fewer "experts"; or be inconvenienced to monitor both.
>> How many members are there of the Google Group currently? And what 
>> percentage ever offer answers? Regularly? The lift community is not as large 
>> as many other communities. Does Scala itself have other forums besides its 
>> own lists? If so what is their state? Certainly the Scala community is much 
>> larger than lift's. (Maybe you should make your forum be a Scala forum, and 
>> have a lift category... But again, I think it's only fair to ask lift's 
>> mastermind first!)
>>
>> -
>>
>> marius d. wrote:
>>
>> My 2 cents if I may ...
>>
>> Although I love this list and this is the official Lift list and
>> support I think it is important to also have other wiki's, forums etc.
>> out there. Personally I don't see this as a community split. More and
>> more people are becoming pretty knowledgeable with Lift & Scala
>> sharing information about Lift on other channels ... is nothing wrong
>> with that .. .quite the opposite. In fact this may take some of the
>> load on this list as community grows.
>>
>> Would be nice though to have a central place where all other wiki's/
>> forums can be found. For instance serious forums/wikis could be
>> references from lift web-site or even fromthis list in the header
>> section.
>>
>> Br's,
>> Marius
>>
>> On Aug 30, 8:37 am, Naftoli Gugenheim  wrote:
>>
>>> The lift community is not huge. It's David Pollak's brainchild, and I don't 
>>> see how you can discuss creating a forum (after the fact) without his 
>>> okaying it. How can you compare it to an IRC? A forum fills much of the 
>>> same purpose as the list, much more than IRC.
>>> Some of the advantages mentioned are better solved by a Wiki. (Your 
>>> volunteering to help with it is much appreciated.)
>>> Searchability - sounds like a bug on Google's part, no? Is there a Group 
>>> for discussing Google Groups? In any case, it's addressed by services like 
>>> MarkMail. Isn't Nabbles searchable?
>>> Duplicate questions - forums don't completely solve this. Searchability 
>>> would help, as will the Wiki as it grows.
>>> Stickies - Google Groups doesn't allow stickies?
>>> Syntax highlighting/formatting; organization - the way I see it, you can 
>>> draw a continuum with IRC being the most transient and a Wiki etc. the most 
>>> permanent, with a mailing list, a Google Groups mailng list, and a forum 
>>> falling in between, in increasing order of permanence/organizability. As 
>>> you go from left to right you get more of these features, but a forum is 
>>> still less than a Wiki. On the other hand as you go right to left you get 
>>> more "dynamic"/on the fly--you just write a question without worrying about 
>>> organization or formatting.
>>> Does that make sense?
>>> -
>>> Xavi Ramirez wrote:
>>> I applaud Artem's initiative!
>>> The mailing list has undoubtedly been an extremely helpful resource.
>>> That said, a mailing lists in general have several short comings:
>>> - Hard to search through
>>> - Many duplicate questions
>>> - No stickies
>>> - No syntax highlighting and few formatting options
>>> - Little to no message organizat

[Lift] Re: Question about Lift/Scala & Lift Discussion Board

[Charles F. Munat]

Just my two cents, but I think establishing a separate forum at this 
point is a mite premature. What problem, exactly, is it that we're 
trying to solve?

Chas.

Naftoli Gugenheim wrote:
> Once again, I don't see how you can discuss it until you know that David's 
> fine with it.
> Personally I haven't read any concrete benefit (I don't know what "take the 
> load off" or "get more sites out there" mean practically) that isn't 
> available now between the list an the wiki---certainly not to outweigh the 
> very clear disadvantage to both posters, who have that much less of a chance 
> getting an answer in any one place and may have to ask twice, as well as to 
> "experts" who can either only monitor one site and leave the other site with 
> fewer "experts"; or be inconvenienced to monitor both.
> How many members are there of the Google Group currently? And what percentage 
> ever offer answers? Regularly? The lift community is not as large as many 
> other communities. Does Scala itself have other forums besides its own lists? 
> If so what is their state? Certainly the Scala community is much larger than 
> lift's. (Maybe you should make your forum be a Scala forum, and have a lift 
> category... But again, I think it's only fair to ask lift's mastermind first!)
> 
> -
> marius d. wrote:
> 
> 
> My 2 cents if I may ...
> 
> Although I love this list and this is the official Lift list and
> support I think it is important to also have other wiki's, forums etc.
> out there. Personally I don't see this as a community split. More and
> more people are becoming pretty knowledgeable with Lift & Scala
> sharing information about Lift on other channels ... is nothing wrong
> with that .. .quite the opposite. In fact this may take some of the
> load on this list as community grows.
> 
> Would be nice though to have a central place where all other wiki's/
> forums can be found. For instance serious forums/wikis could be
> references from lift web-site or even fromthis list in the header
> section.
> 
> Br's,
> Marius
> 
> On Aug 30, 8:37 am, Naftoli Gugenheim  wrote:
>> The lift community is not huge. It's David Pollak's brainchild, and I don't 
>> see how you can discuss creating a forum (after the fact) without his 
>> okaying it. How can you compare it to an IRC? A forum fills much of the same 
>> purpose as the list, much more than IRC.
>> Some of the advantages mentioned are better solved by a Wiki. (Your 
>> volunteering to help with it is much appreciated.)
>> Searchability - sounds like a bug on Google's part, no? Is there a Group for 
>> discussing Google Groups? In any case, it's addressed by services like 
>> MarkMail. Isn't Nabbles searchable?
>> Duplicate questions - forums don't completely solve this. Searchability 
>> would help, as will the Wiki as it grows.
>> Stickies - Google Groups doesn't allow stickies?
>> Syntax highlighting/formatting; organization - the way I see it, you can 
>> draw a continuum with IRC being the most transient and a Wiki etc. the most 
>> permanent, with a mailing list, a Google Groups mailng list, and a forum 
>> falling in between, in increasing order of permanence/organizability. As you 
>> go from left to right you get more of these features, but a forum is still 
>> less than a Wiki. On the other hand as you go right to left you get more 
>> "dynamic"/on the fly--you just write a question without worrying about 
>> organization or formatting.
>> Does that make sense?
>>
>> -
>>
>> Xavi Ramirez wrote:
>>
>> I applaud Artem's initiative!
>>
>> The mailing list has undoubtedly been an extremely helpful resource.
>> That said, a mailing lists in general have several short comings:
>>
>> - Hard to search through
>> - Many duplicate questions
>> - No stickies
>> - No syntax highlighting and few formatting options
>> - Little to no message organization
>> - Few moderation tools
>>
>> A forum could be a nice way to address these issues, so it might be
>> worth a try.  Also I think introducing a forum is anymore likely to
>> splinter than an IRC chat room.
>>
>> Just my two cents.
>>
>> -Xavi
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 8:22 PM, Timothy Perrett 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Agreed (and +1) - Personally I actually prefer mailing lists full stop
>>> because it involves no web site trawling to get to the topics one is
>>> after...
>>> Cheers, Tim
>>> On 30/08/2009 01:20, "TylerWeir"  wrote:
 I'm not really sure how splintering the community is going to help.
 I feel the google group has been fine.
 On Aug 29, 6:59 pm, Artem  wrote:
> Hey!
> I stumbled on Lift a couple weeks ago and have been messing around
> with it a lot!  I am a Ruby on Rails programmer and it seems like Ruby
> is doing a fine job serving the web programmers community.  Recently,
> I read an article about Twitter running RoR and it crashing after a
> while.  They decided to switch to Scala because it's scalable

[Lift] Re: Question about Lift/Scala & Lift Discussion Board

[jack]

I agree. I can't imagine starting something like this without first
approaching David.

Having said that, and pehaps contradictorily, I welcome any
initiatives that will further Lift/Scala.

On Aug 30, 9:20 am, Naftoli Gugenheim  wrote:
> Once again, I don't see how you can discuss it until you know that David's 
> fine with it.
> Personally I haven't read any concrete benefit (I don't know what "take the 
> load off" or "get more sites out there" mean practically) that isn't 
> available now between the list an the wiki---certainly not to outweigh the 
> very clear disadvantage to both posters, who have that much less of a chance 
> getting an answer in any one place and may have to ask twice, as well as to 
> "experts" who can either only monitor one site and leave the other site with 
> fewer "experts"; or be inconvenienced to monitor both.
> How many members are there of the Google Group currently? And what percentage 
> ever offer answers? Regularly? The lift community is not as large as many 
> other communities. Does Scala itself have other forums besides its own lists? 
> If so what is their state? Certainly the Scala community is much larger than 
> lift's. (Maybe you should make your forum be a Scala forum, and have a lift 
> category... But again, I think it's only fair to ask lift's mastermind first!)
>
> -
>
> marius d. wrote:
>
> My 2 cents if I may ...
>
> Although I love this list and this is the official Lift list and
> support I think it is important to also have other wiki's, forums etc.
> out there. Personally I don't see this as a community split. More and
> more people are becoming pretty knowledgeable with Lift & Scala
> sharing information about Lift on other channels ... is nothing wrong
> with that .. .quite the opposite. In fact this may take some of the
> load on this list as community grows.
>
> Would be nice though to have a central place where all other wiki's/
> forums can be found. For instance serious forums/wikis could be
> references from lift web-site or even fromthis list in the header
> section.
>
> Br's,
> Marius
>
> On Aug 30, 8:37 am, Naftoli Gugenheim  wrote:
>
>
>
> > The lift community is not huge. It's David Pollak's brainchild, and I don't 
> > see how you can discuss creating a forum (after the fact) without his 
> > okaying it. How can you compare it to an IRC? A forum fills much of the 
> > same purpose as the list, much more than IRC.
> > Some of the advantages mentioned are better solved by a Wiki. (Your 
> > volunteering to help with it is much appreciated.)
> > Searchability - sounds like a bug on Google's part, no? Is there a Group 
> > for discussing Google Groups? In any case, it's addressed by services like 
> > MarkMail. Isn't Nabbles searchable?
> > Duplicate questions - forums don't completely solve this. Searchability 
> > would help, as will the Wiki as it grows.
> > Stickies - Google Groups doesn't allow stickies?
> > Syntax highlighting/formatting; organization - the way I see it, you can 
> > draw a continuum with IRC being the most transient and a Wiki etc. the most 
> > permanent, with a mailing list, a Google Groups mailng list, and a forum 
> > falling in between, in increasing order of permanence/organizability. As 
> > you go from left to right you get more of these features, but a forum is 
> > still less than a Wiki. On the other hand as you go right to left you get 
> > more "dynamic"/on the fly--you just write a question without worrying about 
> > organization or formatting.
> > Does that make sense?
>
> > -
>
> > Xavi Ramirez wrote:
>
> > I applaud Artem's initiative!
>
> > The mailing list has undoubtedly been an extremely helpful resource.
> > That said, a mailing lists in general have several short comings:
>
> > - Hard to search through
> > - Many duplicate questions
> > - No stickies
> > - No syntax highlighting and few formatting options
> > - Little to no message organization
> > - Few moderation tools
>
> > A forum could be a nice way to address these issues, so it might be
> > worth a try.  Also I think introducing a forum is anymore likely to
> > splinter than an IRC chat room.
>
> > Just my two cents.
>
> > -Xavi
>
> > On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 8:22 PM, Timothy Perrett 
> > wrote:
>
> > > Agreed (and +1) - Personally I actually prefer mailing lists full stop
> > > because it involves no web site trawling to get to the topics one is
> > > after...
>
> > > Cheers, Tim
>
> > > On 30/08/2009 01:20, "TylerWeir"  wrote:
>
> > >> I'm not really sure how splintering the community is going to help.
> > >> I feel the google group has been fine.
>
> > >> On Aug 29, 6:59 pm, Artem  wrote:
> > >>> Hey!
>
> > >>> I stumbled on Lift a couple weeks ago and have been messing around
> > >>> with it a lot!  I am a Ruby on Rails programmer and it seems like Ruby
> > >>> is doing a fine job serving the web programmers community.  Recently,
> > >>> I read an article abou

[Lift] Re: Question about Lift/Scala & Lift Discussion Board

[David Pollak]

On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 3:59 PM, Artem  wrote:

>
> Hey!
>
> I stumbled on Lift a couple weeks ago and have been messing around
> with it a lot!  I am a Ruby on Rails programmer and it seems like Ruby
> is doing a fine job serving the web programmers community.  Recently,
> I read an article about Twitter running RoR and it crashing after a
> while.  They decided to switch to Scala because it's scalable unlike
> Ruby.  I am planning on developing a large website that will require
> lots of CPU/Database usage and I was wondering if Scala/Lift is the
> way to do it?
>
> I'm not a fan of Google Groups, they are not very user friendly, so I
> created a forum specially for Lift developers that like to discuss
> topics about the Scala/Lift programming language.  If you want to help
> start the forum and post a couple topics I would greatly appreciate
> it.  The link is http://www.liftforum.com .  It's a new forum so there
> isn't much content on it yet.



I am totally cool with different forums for discussion Lift and Scala.
 That's all cool.

I will continue to treat this forum as my primary place to help folks and I
will encourage the Lift committers to support newbies on this forum and to
have Lift related discussions (what features, how we add them, etc.) on this
forum.

Personally, I have not had a lot of issues with repeat questions.  The more
times people ask the same questions, the more it points out that either (1)
we didn't do a particular feature correctly or (2) we need to add something
to the Lift wiki or other documentation.

I am personally not a fan of forum software... I find that mailing lists
(via gmail) with a web-basic history to be ideal and thus Google groups was
my choice.  I'm open to other options for the primary Lift support forum.
 We've moved source repositories and wikis a few times.  Moving this forum
elsewhere is not off the table.

In terms of the use of the term "Lift", I want to let you know that there
will probably be some trademark assertions on the word "Lift" related to
computer programs (I'm not sure the exact trademark category.)  So, in the
near future, I may ask you not to use the work "Lift" as a primary
designator for the forum.

I don't see a split as a bad thing.  The Lift community numbers > 1,300
people and is the largest Scala-related community.  We may not be optimal
for providing support to all users of Lift and I welcome other ways to help
people build great web sites with Lift.  By all means, find ways to help
people do better thing with Lift.

Thanks,

David




>
>
> Thanks.
>
> >
>


-- 
Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net
Beginning Scala http://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890
Follow me: http://twitter.com/dpp
Git some: http://github.com/dpp

--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Lift" group.
To post to this group, send email to liftweb@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
liftweb+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/liftweb?hl=en
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[Lift] Re: Question about Lift/Scala & Lift Discussion Board

[Artem]

I agree with marius.

On Aug 30, 11:01 am, "marius d."  wrote:
> What? ... Is there on ONE forum about Java, Scala, Spring, Rail
> etc? ... did all Java forums needed James Gosling approval ? .. Come
> on .. So yes people can talk about it make they own
> wikis,forums,blogs ... internet is free you know. I have tons of
> respect for David and this community and I don't need to write this
> down here but IMO let people know about Lift & Scala by whatever
> means. It doesn't have to be a single information channel.
>
> I hate when I see such a dictatorial attitude about things ...
>
> Br's,
> Marius
>
> On Aug 30, 4:20 pm, Naftoli Gugenheim  wrote:
>
> > Once again, I don't see how you can discuss it until you know that David's 
> > fine with it.
> > Personally I haven't read any concrete benefit (I don't know what "take the 
> > load off" or "get more sites out there" mean practically) that isn't 
> > available now between the list an the wiki---certainly not to outweigh the 
> > very clear disadvantage to both posters, who have that much less of a 
> > chance getting an answer in any one place and may have to ask twice, as 
> > well as to "experts" who can either only monitor one site and leave the 
> > other site with fewer "experts"; or be inconvenienced to monitor both.
> > How many members are there of the Google Group currently? And what 
> > percentage ever offer answers? Regularly? The lift community is not as 
> > large as many other communities. Does Scala itself have other forums 
> > besides its own lists? If so what is their state? Certainly the Scala 
> > community is much larger than lift's. (Maybe you should make your forum be 
> > a Scala forum, and have a lift category... But again, I think it's only 
> > fair to ask lift's mastermind first!)
>
> > -
>
> > marius d. wrote:
>
> > My 2 cents if I may ...
>
> > Although I love this list and this is the official Lift list and
> > support I think it is important to also have other wiki's, forums etc.
> > out there. Personally I don't see this as a community split. More and
> > more people are becoming pretty knowledgeable with Lift & Scala
> > sharing information about Lift on other channels ... is nothing wrong
> > with that .. .quite the opposite. In fact this may take some of the
> > load on this list as community grows.
>
> > Would be nice though to have a central place where all other wiki's/
> > forums can be found. For instance serious forums/wikis could be
> > references from lift web-site or even fromthis list in the header
> > section.
>
> > Br's,
> > Marius
>
> > On Aug 30, 8:37 am, Naftoli Gugenheim  wrote:
>
> > > The lift community is not huge. It's David Pollak's brainchild, and I 
> > > don't see how you can discuss creating a forum (after the fact) without 
> > > his okaying it. How can you compare it to an IRC? A forum fills much of 
> > > the same purpose as the list, much more than IRC.
> > > Some of the advantages mentioned are better solved by a Wiki. (Your 
> > > volunteering to help with it is much appreciated.)
> > > Searchability - sounds like a bug on Google's part, no? Is there a Group 
> > > for discussing Google Groups? In any case, it's addressed by services 
> > > like MarkMail. Isn't Nabbles searchable?
> > > Duplicate questions - forums don't completely solve this. Searchability 
> > > would help, as will the Wiki as it grows.
> > > Stickies - Google Groups doesn't allow stickies?
> > > Syntax highlighting/formatting; organization - the way I see it, you can 
> > > draw a continuum with IRC being the most transient and a Wiki etc. the 
> > > most permanent, with a mailing list, a Google Groups mailng list, and a 
> > > forum falling in between, in increasing order of 
> > > permanence/organizability. As you go from left to right you get more of 
> > > these features, but a forum is still less than a Wiki. On the other hand 
> > > as you go right to left you get more "dynamic"/on the fly--you just write 
> > > a question without worrying about organization or formatting.
> > > Does that make sense?
>
> > > -
>
> > > Xavi Ramirez wrote:
>
> > > I applaud Artem's initiative!
>
> > > The mailing list has undoubtedly been an extremely helpful resource.
> > > That said, a mailing lists in general have several short comings:
>
> > > - Hard to search through
> > > - Many duplicate questions
> > > - No stickies
> > > - No syntax highlighting and few formatting options
> > > - Little to no message organization
> > > - Few moderation tools
>
> > > A forum could be a nice way to address these issues, so it might be
> > > worth a try.  Also I think introducing a forum is anymore likely to
> > > splinter than an IRC chat room.
>
> > > Just my two cents.
>
> > > -Xavi
>
> > > On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 8:22 PM, Timothy Perrett 
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > Agreed (and +1) - Personally I actually prefer mailing lists full stop
> > > > because it involves no web si

[Lift] Re: Question about Lift/Scala & Lift Discussion Board

[marius d.]

What? ... Is there on ONE forum about Java, Scala, Spring, Rail
etc? ... did all Java forums needed James Gosling approval ? .. Come
on .. So yes people can talk about it make they own
wikis,forums,blogs ... internet is free you know. I have tons of
respect for David and this community and I don't need to write this
down here but IMO let people know about Lift & Scala by whatever
means. It doesn't have to be a single information channel.

I hate when I see such a dictatorial attitude about things ...

Br's,
Marius

On Aug 30, 4:20 pm, Naftoli Gugenheim  wrote:
> Once again, I don't see how you can discuss it until you know that David's 
> fine with it.
> Personally I haven't read any concrete benefit (I don't know what "take the 
> load off" or "get more sites out there" mean practically) that isn't 
> available now between the list an the wiki---certainly not to outweigh the 
> very clear disadvantage to both posters, who have that much less of a chance 
> getting an answer in any one place and may have to ask twice, as well as to 
> "experts" who can either only monitor one site and leave the other site with 
> fewer "experts"; or be inconvenienced to monitor both.
> How many members are there of the Google Group currently? And what percentage 
> ever offer answers? Regularly? The lift community is not as large as many 
> other communities. Does Scala itself have other forums besides its own lists? 
> If so what is their state? Certainly the Scala community is much larger than 
> lift's. (Maybe you should make your forum be a Scala forum, and have a lift 
> category... But again, I think it's only fair to ask lift's mastermind first!)
>
> -
>
> marius d. wrote:
>
> My 2 cents if I may ...
>
> Although I love this list and this is the official Lift list and
> support I think it is important to also have other wiki's, forums etc.
> out there. Personally I don't see this as a community split. More and
> more people are becoming pretty knowledgeable with Lift & Scala
> sharing information about Lift on other channels ... is nothing wrong
> with that .. .quite the opposite. In fact this may take some of the
> load on this list as community grows.
>
> Would be nice though to have a central place where all other wiki's/
> forums can be found. For instance serious forums/wikis could be
> references from lift web-site or even fromthis list in the header
> section.
>
> Br's,
> Marius
>
> On Aug 30, 8:37 am, Naftoli Gugenheim  wrote:
>
> > The lift community is not huge. It's David Pollak's brainchild, and I don't 
> > see how you can discuss creating a forum (after the fact) without his 
> > okaying it. How can you compare it to an IRC? A forum fills much of the 
> > same purpose as the list, much more than IRC.
> > Some of the advantages mentioned are better solved by a Wiki. (Your 
> > volunteering to help with it is much appreciated.)
> > Searchability - sounds like a bug on Google's part, no? Is there a Group 
> > for discussing Google Groups? In any case, it's addressed by services like 
> > MarkMail. Isn't Nabbles searchable?
> > Duplicate questions - forums don't completely solve this. Searchability 
> > would help, as will the Wiki as it grows.
> > Stickies - Google Groups doesn't allow stickies?
> > Syntax highlighting/formatting; organization - the way I see it, you can 
> > draw a continuum with IRC being the most transient and a Wiki etc. the most 
> > permanent, with a mailing list, a Google Groups mailng list, and a forum 
> > falling in between, in increasing order of permanence/organizability. As 
> > you go from left to right you get more of these features, but a forum is 
> > still less than a Wiki. On the other hand as you go right to left you get 
> > more "dynamic"/on the fly--you just write a question without worrying about 
> > organization or formatting.
> > Does that make sense?
>
> > -
>
> > Xavi Ramirez wrote:
>
> > I applaud Artem's initiative!
>
> > The mailing list has undoubtedly been an extremely helpful resource.
> > That said, a mailing lists in general have several short comings:
>
> > - Hard to search through
> > - Many duplicate questions
> > - No stickies
> > - No syntax highlighting and few formatting options
> > - Little to no message organization
> > - Few moderation tools
>
> > A forum could be a nice way to address these issues, so it might be
> > worth a try.  Also I think introducing a forum is anymore likely to
> > splinter than an IRC chat room.
>
> > Just my two cents.
>
> > -Xavi
>
> > On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 8:22 PM, Timothy Perrett 
> > wrote:
>
> > > Agreed (and +1) - Personally I actually prefer mailing lists full stop
> > > because it involves no web site trawling to get to the topics one is
> > > after...
>
> > > Cheers, Tim
>
> > > On 30/08/2009 01:20, "TylerWeir"  wrote:
>
> > >> I'm not really sure how splintering the community is going to help.
> > >> I feel the google group has been 

[Lift] Re: Question about Lift/Scala & Lift Discussion Board

[Artem]

I really don't like Google Groups because it's a mess.  Posts on here
are hard to read and unorganized.  I'm typing this post right now and
I don't have any options for formatting.  I think we should have a
forum for Lift to get more people interested.  When I first saw this
group here on google, I was like "are you serious?". Do you know any
other programming language that has an active google group?

Another thing is that it's hard to search the group.  Forums are made
to be searchable and easily indexed by search engines.

On Aug 30, 9:20 am, Naftoli Gugenheim  wrote:
> Once again, I don't see how you can discuss it until you know that David's 
> fine with it.
> Personally I haven't read any concrete benefit (I don't know what "take the 
> load off" or "get more sites out there" mean practically) that isn't 
> available now between the list an the wiki---certainly not to outweigh the 
> very clear disadvantage to both posters, who have that much less of a chance 
> getting an answer in any one place and may have to ask twice, as well as to 
> "experts" who can either only monitor one site and leave the other site with 
> fewer "experts"; or be inconvenienced to monitor both.
> How many members are there of the Google Group currently? And what percentage 
> ever offer answers? Regularly? The lift community is not as large as many 
> other communities. Does Scala itself have other forums besides its own lists? 
> If so what is their state? Certainly the Scala community is much larger than 
> lift's. (Maybe you should make your forum be a Scala forum, and have a lift 
> category... But again, I think it's only fair to ask lift's mastermind first!)
>
> -
>
> marius d. wrote:
>
> My 2 cents if I may ...
>
> Although I love this list and this is the official Lift list and
> support I think it is important to also have other wiki's, forums etc.
> out there. Personally I don't see this as a community split. More and
> more people are becoming pretty knowledgeable with Lift & Scala
> sharing information about Lift on other channels ... is nothing wrong
> with that .. .quite the opposite. In fact this may take some of the
> load on this list as community grows.
>
> Would be nice though to have a central place where all other wiki's/
> forums can be found. For instance serious forums/wikis could be
> references from lift web-site or even fromthis list in the header
> section.
>
> Br's,
> Marius
>
> On Aug 30, 8:37 am, Naftoli Gugenheim  wrote:
>
> > The lift community is not huge. It's David Pollak's brainchild, and I don't 
> > see how you can discuss creating a forum (after the fact) without his 
> > okaying it. How can you compare it to an IRC? A forum fills much of the 
> > same purpose as the list, much more than IRC.
> > Some of the advantages mentioned are better solved by a Wiki. (Your 
> > volunteering to help with it is much appreciated.)
> > Searchability - sounds like a bug on Google's part, no? Is there a Group 
> > for discussing Google Groups? In any case, it's addressed by services like 
> > MarkMail. Isn't Nabbles searchable?
> > Duplicate questions - forums don't completely solve this. Searchability 
> > would help, as will the Wiki as it grows.
> > Stickies - Google Groups doesn't allow stickies?
> > Syntax highlighting/formatting; organization - the way I see it, you can 
> > draw a continuum with IRC being the most transient and a Wiki etc. the most 
> > permanent, with a mailing list, a Google Groups mailng list, and a forum 
> > falling in between, in increasing order of permanence/organizability. As 
> > you go from left to right you get more of these features, but a forum is 
> > still less than a Wiki. On the other hand as you go right to left you get 
> > more "dynamic"/on the fly--you just write a question without worrying about 
> > organization or formatting.
> > Does that make sense?
>
> > -
>
> > Xavi Ramirez wrote:
>
> > I applaud Artem's initiative!
>
> > The mailing list has undoubtedly been an extremely helpful resource.
> > That said, a mailing lists in general have several short comings:
>
> > - Hard to search through
> > - Many duplicate questions
> > - No stickies
> > - No syntax highlighting and few formatting options
> > - Little to no message organization
> > - Few moderation tools
>
> > A forum could be a nice way to address these issues, so it might be
> > worth a try.  Also I think introducing a forum is anymore likely to
> > splinter than an IRC chat room.
>
> > Just my two cents.
>
> > -Xavi
>
> > On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 8:22 PM, Timothy Perrett 
> > wrote:
>
> > > Agreed (and +1) - Personally I actually prefer mailing lists full stop
> > > because it involves no web site trawling to get to the topics one is
> > > after...
>
> > > Cheers, Tim
>
> > > On 30/08/2009 01:20, "TylerWeir"  wrote:
>
> > >> I'm not really sure how splintering the community is going to help.
> > >> I feel the google grou

[Lift] Re: Question about Lift/Scala & Lift Discussion Board

[Naftoli Gugenheim]

Once again, I don't see how you can discuss it until you know that David's fine 
with it.
Personally I haven't read any concrete benefit (I don't know what "take the 
load off" or "get more sites out there" mean practically) that isn't available 
now between the list an the wiki---certainly not to outweigh the very clear 
disadvantage to both posters, who have that much less of a chance getting an 
answer in any one place and may have to ask twice, as well as to "experts" who 
can either only monitor one site and leave the other site with fewer "experts"; 
or be inconvenienced to monitor both.
How many members are there of the Google Group currently? And what percentage 
ever offer answers? Regularly? The lift community is not as large as many other 
communities. Does Scala itself have other forums besides its own lists? If so 
what is their state? Certainly the Scala community is much larger than lift's. 
(Maybe you should make your forum be a Scala forum, and have a lift category... 
But again, I think it's only fair to ask lift's mastermind first!)

-
marius d. wrote:


My 2 cents if I may ...

Although I love this list and this is the official Lift list and
support I think it is important to also have other wiki's, forums etc.
out there. Personally I don't see this as a community split. More and
more people are becoming pretty knowledgeable with Lift & Scala
sharing information about Lift on other channels ... is nothing wrong
with that .. .quite the opposite. In fact this may take some of the
load on this list as community grows.

Would be nice though to have a central place where all other wiki's/
forums can be found. For instance serious forums/wikis could be
references from lift web-site or even fromthis list in the header
section.

Br's,
Marius

On Aug 30, 8:37 am, Naftoli Gugenheim  wrote:
> The lift community is not huge. It's David Pollak's brainchild, and I don't 
> see how you can discuss creating a forum (after the fact) without his okaying 
> it. How can you compare it to an IRC? A forum fills much of the same purpose 
> as the list, much more than IRC.
> Some of the advantages mentioned are better solved by a Wiki. (Your 
> volunteering to help with it is much appreciated.)
> Searchability - sounds like a bug on Google's part, no? Is there a Group for 
> discussing Google Groups? In any case, it's addressed by services like 
> MarkMail. Isn't Nabbles searchable?
> Duplicate questions - forums don't completely solve this. Searchability would 
> help, as will the Wiki as it grows.
> Stickies - Google Groups doesn't allow stickies?
> Syntax highlighting/formatting; organization - the way I see it, you can draw 
> a continuum with IRC being the most transient and a Wiki etc. the most 
> permanent, with a mailing list, a Google Groups mailng list, and a forum 
> falling in between, in increasing order of permanence/organizability. As you 
> go from left to right you get more of these features, but a forum is still 
> less than a Wiki. On the other hand as you go right to left you get more 
> "dynamic"/on the fly--you just write a question without worrying about 
> organization or formatting.
> Does that make sense?
>
> -
>
> Xavi Ramirez wrote:
>
> I applaud Artem's initiative!
>
> The mailing list has undoubtedly been an extremely helpful resource.
> That said, a mailing lists in general have several short comings:
>
> - Hard to search through
> - Many duplicate questions
> - No stickies
> - No syntax highlighting and few formatting options
> - Little to no message organization
> - Few moderation tools
>
> A forum could be a nice way to address these issues, so it might be
> worth a try.  Also I think introducing a forum is anymore likely to
> splinter than an IRC chat room.
>
> Just my two cents.
>
> -Xavi
>
> On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 8:22 PM, Timothy Perrett 
> wrote:
>
> > Agreed (and +1) - Personally I actually prefer mailing lists full stop
> > because it involves no web site trawling to get to the topics one is
> > after...
>
> > Cheers, Tim
>
> > On 30/08/2009 01:20, "TylerWeir"  wrote:
>
> >> I'm not really sure how splintering the community is going to help.
> >> I feel the google group has been fine.
>
> >> On Aug 29, 6:59 pm, Artem  wrote:
> >>> Hey!
>
> >>> I stumbled on Lift a couple weeks ago and have been messing around
> >>> with it a lot!  I am a Ruby on Rails programmer and it seems like Ruby
> >>> is doing a fine job serving the web programmers community.  Recently,
> >>> I read an article about Twitter running RoR and it crashing after a
> >>> while.  They decided to switch to Scala because it's scalable unlike
> >>> Ruby.  I am planning on developing a large website that will require
> >>> lots of CPU/Database usage and I was wondering if Scala/Lift is the
> >>> way to do it?
>
> >>> I'm not a fan of Google Groups, they are not very user friendly, so I
> >>> created a forum specially for Lift developer

[Lift] Re: Question about Lift/Scala & Lift Discussion Board

[marius d.]

My 2 cents if I may ...

Although I love this list and this is the official Lift list and
support I think it is important to also have other wiki's, forums etc.
out there. Personally I don't see this as a community split. More and
more people are becoming pretty knowledgeable with Lift & Scala
sharing information about Lift on other channels ... is nothing wrong
with that .. .quite the opposite. In fact this may take some of the
load on this list as community grows.

Would be nice though to have a central place where all other wiki's/
forums can be found. For instance serious forums/wikis could be
references from lift web-site or even fromthis list in the header
section.

Br's,
Marius

On Aug 30, 8:37 am, Naftoli Gugenheim  wrote:
> The lift community is not huge. It's David Pollak's brainchild, and I don't 
> see how you can discuss creating a forum (after the fact) without his okaying 
> it. How can you compare it to an IRC? A forum fills much of the same purpose 
> as the list, much more than IRC.
> Some of the advantages mentioned are better solved by a Wiki. (Your 
> volunteering to help with it is much appreciated.)
> Searchability - sounds like a bug on Google's part, no? Is there a Group for 
> discussing Google Groups? In any case, it's addressed by services like 
> MarkMail. Isn't Nabbles searchable?
> Duplicate questions - forums don't completely solve this. Searchability would 
> help, as will the Wiki as it grows.
> Stickies - Google Groups doesn't allow stickies?
> Syntax highlighting/formatting; organization - the way I see it, you can draw 
> a continuum with IRC being the most transient and a Wiki etc. the most 
> permanent, with a mailing list, a Google Groups mailng list, and a forum 
> falling in between, in increasing order of permanence/organizability. As you 
> go from left to right you get more of these features, but a forum is still 
> less than a Wiki. On the other hand as you go right to left you get more 
> "dynamic"/on the fly--you just write a question without worrying about 
> organization or formatting.
> Does that make sense?
>
> -
>
> Xavi Ramirez wrote:
>
> I applaud Artem's initiative!
>
> The mailing list has undoubtedly been an extremely helpful resource.
> That said, a mailing lists in general have several short comings:
>
> - Hard to search through
> - Many duplicate questions
> - No stickies
> - No syntax highlighting and few formatting options
> - Little to no message organization
> - Few moderation tools
>
> A forum could be a nice way to address these issues, so it might be
> worth a try.  Also I think introducing a forum is anymore likely to
> splinter than an IRC chat room.
>
> Just my two cents.
>
> -Xavi
>
> On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 8:22 PM, Timothy Perrett 
> wrote:
>
> > Agreed (and +1) - Personally I actually prefer mailing lists full stop
> > because it involves no web site trawling to get to the topics one is
> > after...
>
> > Cheers, Tim
>
> > On 30/08/2009 01:20, "TylerWeir"  wrote:
>
> >> I'm not really sure how splintering the community is going to help.
> >> I feel the google group has been fine.
>
> >> On Aug 29, 6:59 pm, Artem  wrote:
> >>> Hey!
>
> >>> I stumbled on Lift a couple weeks ago and have been messing around
> >>> with it a lot!  I am a Ruby on Rails programmer and it seems like Ruby
> >>> is doing a fine job serving the web programmers community.  Recently,
> >>> I read an article about Twitter running RoR and it crashing after a
> >>> while.  They decided to switch to Scala because it's scalable unlike
> >>> Ruby.  I am planning on developing a large website that will require
> >>> lots of CPU/Database usage and I was wondering if Scala/Lift is the
> >>> way to do it?
>
> >>> I'm not a fan of Google Groups, they are not very user friendly, so I
> >>> created a forum specially for Lift developers that like to discuss
> >>> topics about the Scala/Lift programming language.  If you want to help
> >>> start the forum and post a couple topics I would greatly appreciate
> >>> it.  The link ishttp://www.liftforum.com.  It's a new forum so there
> >>> isn't much content on it yet.
>
> >>> Thanks.
--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Lift" group.
To post to this group, send email to liftweb@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
liftweb+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/liftweb?hl=en
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[Lift] Re: Question about Lift/Scala & Lift Discussion Board

[Naftoli Gugenheim]

The lift community is not huge. It's David Pollak's brainchild, and I don't see 
how you can discuss creating a forum (after the fact) without his okaying it. 
How can you compare it to an IRC? A forum fills much of the same purpose as the 
list, much more than IRC.
Some of the advantages mentioned are better solved by a Wiki. (Your 
volunteering to help with it is much appreciated.)
Searchability - sounds like a bug on Google's part, no? Is there a Group for 
discussing Google Groups? In any case, it's addressed by services like 
MarkMail. Isn't Nabbles searchable?
Duplicate questions - forums don't completely solve this. Searchability would 
help, as will the Wiki as it grows.
Stickies - Google Groups doesn't allow stickies?
Syntax highlighting/formatting; organization - the way I see it, you can draw a 
continuum with IRC being the most transient and a Wiki etc. the most permanent, 
with a mailing list, a Google Groups mailng list, and a forum falling in 
between, in increasing order of permanence/organizability. As you go from left 
to right you get more of these features, but a forum is still less than a Wiki. 
On the other hand as you go right to left you get more "dynamic"/on the 
fly--you just write a question without worrying about organization or 
formatting.
Does that make sense?


-
Xavi Ramirez wrote:


I applaud Artem's initiative!

The mailing list has undoubtedly been an extremely helpful resource.
That said, a mailing lists in general have several short comings:

- Hard to search through
- Many duplicate questions
- No stickies
- No syntax highlighting and few formatting options
- Little to no message organization
- Few moderation tools

A forum could be a nice way to address these issues, so it might be
worth a try.  Also I think introducing a forum is anymore likely to
splinter than an IRC chat room.

Just my two cents.

-Xavi

On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 8:22 PM, Timothy Perrett wrote:
>
>
> Agreed (and +1) - Personally I actually prefer mailing lists full stop
> because it involves no web site trawling to get to the topics one is
> after...
>
> Cheers, Tim
>
> On 30/08/2009 01:20, "TylerWeir"  wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm not really sure how splintering the community is going to help.
>> I feel the google group has been fine.
>>
>> On Aug 29, 6:59 pm, Artem  wrote:
>>> Hey!
>>>
>>> I stumbled on Lift a couple weeks ago and have been messing around
>>> with it a lot!  I am a Ruby on Rails programmer and it seems like Ruby
>>> is doing a fine job serving the web programmers community.  Recently,
>>> I read an article about Twitter running RoR and it crashing after a
>>> while.  They decided to switch to Scala because it's scalable unlike
>>> Ruby.  I am planning on developing a large website that will require
>>> lots of CPU/Database usage and I was wondering if Scala/Lift is the
>>> way to do it?
>>>
>>> I'm not a fan of Google Groups, they are not very user friendly, so I
>>> created a forum specially for Lift developers that like to discuss
>>> topics about the Scala/Lift programming language.  If you want to help
>>> start the forum and post a couple topics I would greatly appreciate
>>> it.  The link ishttp://www.liftforum.com.  It's a new forum so there
>>> isn't much content on it yet.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>> >
>>
>
>
>
> >
>



--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Lift" group.
To post to this group, send email to liftweb@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
liftweb+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/liftweb?hl=en
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[Lift] Re: Question about Lift/Scala & Lift Discussion Board

[Xavi Ramirez]

I applaud Artem's initiative!

The mailing list has undoubtedly been an extremely helpful resource.
That said, a mailing lists in general have several short comings:

- Hard to search through
- Many duplicate questions
- No stickies
- No syntax highlighting and few formatting options
- Little to no message organization
- Few moderation tools

A forum could be a nice way to address these issues, so it might be
worth a try.  Also I think introducing a forum is anymore likely to
splinter than an IRC chat room.

Just my two cents.

-Xavi

On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 8:22 PM, Timothy Perrett wrote:
>
>
> Agreed (and +1) - Personally I actually prefer mailing lists full stop
> because it involves no web site trawling to get to the topics one is
> after...
>
> Cheers, Tim
>
> On 30/08/2009 01:20, "TylerWeir"  wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm not really sure how splintering the community is going to help.
>> I feel the google group has been fine.
>>
>> On Aug 29, 6:59 pm, Artem  wrote:
>>> Hey!
>>>
>>> I stumbled on Lift a couple weeks ago and have been messing around
>>> with it a lot!  I am a Ruby on Rails programmer and it seems like Ruby
>>> is doing a fine job serving the web programmers community.  Recently,
>>> I read an article about Twitter running RoR and it crashing after a
>>> while.  They decided to switch to Scala because it's scalable unlike
>>> Ruby.  I am planning on developing a large website that will require
>>> lots of CPU/Database usage and I was wondering if Scala/Lift is the
>>> way to do it?
>>>
>>> I'm not a fan of Google Groups, they are not very user friendly, so I
>>> created a forum specially for Lift developers that like to discuss
>>> topics about the Scala/Lift programming language.  If you want to help
>>> start the forum and post a couple topics I would greatly appreciate
>>> it.  The link ishttp://www.liftforum.com.  It's a new forum so there
>>> isn't much content on it yet.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>> >
>>
>
>
>
> >
>

--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Lift" group.
To post to this group, send email to liftweb@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
liftweb+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/liftweb?hl=en
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[Lift] Re: Question about Lift/Scala & Lift Discussion Board

[Timothy Perrett]

Agreed (and +1) - Personally I actually prefer mailing lists full stop
because it involves no web site trawling to get to the topics one is
after...

Cheers, Tim

On 30/08/2009 01:20, "TylerWeir"  wrote:

> 
> I'm not really sure how splintering the community is going to help.
> I feel the google group has been fine.
> 
> On Aug 29, 6:59 pm, Artem  wrote:
>> Hey!
>> 
>> I stumbled on Lift a couple weeks ago and have been messing around
>> with it a lot!  I am a Ruby on Rails programmer and it seems like Ruby
>> is doing a fine job serving the web programmers community.  Recently,
>> I read an article about Twitter running RoR and it crashing after a
>> while.  They decided to switch to Scala because it's scalable unlike
>> Ruby.  I am planning on developing a large website that will require
>> lots of CPU/Database usage and I was wondering if Scala/Lift is the
>> way to do it?
>> 
>> I'm not a fan of Google Groups, they are not very user friendly, so I
>> created a forum specially for Lift developers that like to discuss
>> topics about the Scala/Lift programming language.  If you want to help
>> start the forum and post a couple topics I would greatly appreciate
>> it.  The link ishttp://www.liftforum.com.  It's a new forum so there
>> isn't much content on it yet.
>> 
>> Thanks.
> > 
> 



--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Lift" group.
To post to this group, send email to liftweb@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
liftweb+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/liftweb?hl=en
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[Lift] Re: Question about Lift/Scala & Lift Discussion Board

[TylerWeir]

I'm not really sure how splintering the community is going to help.
I feel the google group has been fine.

On Aug 29, 6:59 pm, Artem  wrote:
> Hey!
>
> I stumbled on Lift a couple weeks ago and have been messing around
> with it a lot!  I am a Ruby on Rails programmer and it seems like Ruby
> is doing a fine job serving the web programmers community.  Recently,
> I read an article about Twitter running RoR and it crashing after a
> while.  They decided to switch to Scala because it's scalable unlike
> Ruby.  I am planning on developing a large website that will require
> lots of CPU/Database usage and I was wondering if Scala/Lift is the
> way to do it?
>
> I'm not a fan of Google Groups, they are not very user friendly, so I
> created a forum specially for Lift developers that like to discuss
> topics about the Scala/Lift programming language.  If you want to help
> start the forum and post a couple topics I would greatly appreciate
> it.  The link ishttp://www.liftforum.com.  It's a new forum so there
> isn't much content on it yet.
>
> Thanks.
--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Lift" group.
To post to this group, send email to liftweb@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
liftweb+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/liftweb?hl=en
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---