Re: [Lightning-dev] RouteBoost: Adding 'r=' fields to BOLT 11 invoices to flag capacity

2018-10-10 Thread Johan Torås Halseth
I agree the r-fields are useful to populate for public channels in many situations, but care must be taken to not _always_ try them first without accounting for potentially high fees on those channels. - Johan On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 5:46 AM Rusty Russell wrote: > Pierre writes: > >> But there'

Re: [Lightning-dev] RouteBoost: Adding 'r=' fields to BOLT 11 invoices to flag capacity

2018-10-09 Thread Rusty Russell
Pierre writes: >> But there's no reason to believe that the invoicer has more knowledge about >> all but the last hop. > > I disagree: there is a good chance that the receiver is a 24/7 running > merchant/website, with a full up-to-date view of the network, whereas > the payer is most likely a mo

Re: [Lightning-dev] RouteBoost: Adding 'r=' fields to BOLT 11 invoices to flag capacity

2018-10-08 Thread Pierre
> But there's no reason to believe that the invoicer has more knowledge about > all but the last hop. I disagree: there is a good chance that the receiver is a 24/7 running merchant/website, with a full up-to-date view of the network, whereas the payer is most likely a mobile wallet with less acc

Re: [Lightning-dev] RouteBoost: Adding 'r=' fields to BOLT 11 invoices to flag capacity

2018-10-08 Thread ZmnSCPxj via Lightning-dev
Good morning Matt, In my implementation that might get into c-lightning (i.e. my pull request, which I should probably update some time before universe heat death) the r= fields are preferred, but if unable to find routes to the nodes indicated in the r= fields, we always fall back to our known

Re: [Lightning-dev] RouteBoost: Adding 'r=' fields to BOLT 11 invoices to flag capacity

2018-10-08 Thread Rusty Russell
Matt Corallo writes: > On a related note, it would be nice to get some clarity on appropriate > usage of the r= field here. > The way I had implemented it initially was that if an invoice had an r= > field any publicly-discovered last-hop routes would be ignored as the r= > data is most likely mor

[Lightning-dev] RouteBoost: Adding 'r=' fields to BOLT 11 invoices to flag capacity

2018-10-07 Thread Matt Corallo
Resending due to ML bugs On a related note, it would be nice to get some clarity on appropriate usage of the r= field here. The way I had implemented it initially was that if an invoice had an r= field any publicly-discovered last-hop routes would be ignored as the r= data is most likely more

Re: [Lightning-dev] RouteBoost: Adding 'r=' fields to BOLT 11 invoices to flag capacity

2018-10-04 Thread Pierre
Ha! I actually came up with the idea two months ago (but you beat me to it on the implementation so we're even :-) https://github.com/ACINQ/eclair-wallet/issues/101#issuecomment-408619207 Le jeu. 20 sept. 2018 à 04:12, Rusty Russell a écrit : > > Hi all, > > I'm considering a change to

Re: [Lightning-dev] RouteBoost: Adding 'r=' fields to BOLT 11 invoices to flag capacity

2018-09-28 Thread Rusty Russell
Olaoluwa Osuntokun writes: >> This is orothogonal. There's no point probing your own channel, you're >> presumably probing someone else's. > > In my scenario, you're receiving a new HTLC, from some remote party > unbeknownst to you. You have incoming and outgoing channels, and no other informati

Re: [Lightning-dev] RouteBoost: Adding 'r=' fields to BOLT 11 invoices to flag capacity

2018-09-28 Thread Olaoluwa Osuntokun
> This is orothogonal. There's no point probing your own channel, you're > presumably probing someone else's. In my scenario, you're receiving a new HTLC, from some remote party unbeknownst to you. I was replying to cdecker's reply to johan that one wouldn't always add this new type of routing hi

Re: [Lightning-dev] RouteBoost: Adding 'r=' fields to BOLT 11 invoices to flag capacity

2018-09-28 Thread Rusty Russell
This is now implemented (server side) in c-lightning/master: https://github.com/ElementsProject/lightning/pull/1982 (Note that c-lightning doesn't yet *use* the r= information: implementations should start doing that now though!) You can test against both my mainnet and testnet nodes: m

Re: [Lightning-dev] RouteBoost: Adding 'r=' fields to BOLT 11 invoices to flag capacity

2018-09-26 Thread Rusty Russell
Olaoluwa Osuntokun writes: >> That might not be so desirable, since it leaks the current channel >> capacity to the user > >>From my PoV, the only way a node can protect the _instantaneous_ available > bandwidth in their channel is to randomly reject packets, even if they have > the bandwidth to a

Re: [Lightning-dev] RouteBoost: Adding 'r=' fields to BOLT 11 invoices to flag capacity

2018-09-21 Thread Olaoluwa Osuntokun
> That might not be so desirable, since it leaks the current channel > capacity to the user >From my PoV, the only way a node can protect the _instantaneous_ available bandwidth in their channel is to randomly reject packets, even if they have the bandwidth to actually accept and forward them. Ob

Re: [Lightning-dev] RouteBoost: Adding 'r=' fields to BOLT 11 invoices to flag capacity

2018-09-20 Thread Johan Torås Halseth
I was thinking you could just make many requests to get the same information, but if you always choose the same channel as long as its capacity meets the requirement, then not much is learnt :) On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 9:26 AM Christian Decker wrote: > That might not be so desirable, since it l

Re: [Lightning-dev] RouteBoost: Adding 'r=' fields to BOLT 11 invoices to flag capacity

2018-09-20 Thread Christian Decker
That might not be so desirable, since it leaks the current channel capacity to the user. Depending on how fine grained the amount in the invoice is and how the user can control it, he could do a binary search over capacities and very reliably tell how much capacity you have and track it over time.

Re: [Lightning-dev] RouteBoost: Adding 'r=' fields to BOLT 11 invoices to flag capacity

2018-09-20 Thread Johan Torås Halseth
Any reason not to include _all_ (up to a limit) incoming channels with sufficient capacity? Cheers, Johan On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 4:12 AM Rusty Russell wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm considering a change to c-lightning, where `invoice` would > automatically append an 'r' field for a channel w

[Lightning-dev] RouteBoost: Adding 'r=' fields to BOLT 11 invoices to flag capacity

2018-09-19 Thread Rusty Russell
Hi all, I'm considering a change to c-lightning, where `invoice` would automatically append an 'r' field for a channel which has sufficient *incoming* capacity for the amount (using a weighted probability across our peers). This isn't quite what 'r' was for, but it would be a use