Actcom without a dailer costs more
Hi list, Recently I updated my 4 years old account in Actcom (this is my 4th year). After watching the price of the account in my office, I found out that I pay a lot more for a lot less. That is I pay 760 NIS for 750 without a dialer, while at work we pay a lot less for a faster connection. BTW I was told that if I'll move to a dialer, it will cost me 200 NIS less !!! After a long talk with the finance, I found out that the reason for that is that I do not use a dailer, and the CO of Actcom decided that users without a dialer should pay more, alto as most of you know, the infurstracture and the technical stuff for Radius and other servers that are working in the background requires a lot more work (not to mention the support team that need to handle very stupid issues such as passowrd lost, incurrect login issues etc) ... The finance person also mentioned that I need to pay more, because a dialer gives them (Actcom) the ability to monitor connections. But on LAN (you all know that cables connection is a LAN) you can monitor activities as well, and not to mention that a dialer and the rest of the servers that you pass along the way makes the connection slower. Now don't get me wrong, I really like Actcom, and the fact that they support our community is a hugh Plus for me, and thats even before I mention their very good tech and Linux support etc.. But I do not wish to have a dialer, And I do not like the fact that the user should handle PPP connections for such thing. ADSL btw also does not really requires user intervention (L2TP is the protocol that ADSL talks, and theoretically the ADSL router should make the converting between Ethernet and ADSL on it's own). BTW If they will not give a better price, I don't think that I will continue working with them next year ... What do you think ? Ido = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Actcom without a dailer costs more
Hi, I had the same problem, but not with the money issue. When i upgraded my Internet line, they automatically moved me to dialer. All my body was shaking from anger ;) I called them and fought for my right to continue with DHCP. I finally got it, but a bitter taste still floating in my mouth. I have lot of respect for Actcom, because at the beginning they supported Linux, but now they don't support, and you need to have luck, in order to find someone there that understand Linux. I understand that Actcom is in a very tight market and a very aggressive price war, so i guess they have hard time and we as customers feel it. I really don't understand why the have to monitor my activity?! When there will be a law for it, i will understand, but now most of Actcom's clients want to use DHCP, so let them be. We can raise the power of Actcom, but i see them going direct to the opposite way. On 9/21/05, Ido Kanner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi list,Recently I updated my 4 years old account in Actcom (this is my 4th year).After watching the price of the account in my office, I found out that I pay a lot more for a lot less. That is I pay 760 NIS for 750 without a dialer, whileat work we pay a lot less for a faster connection.BTW I was told that if I'll move to a dialer, it will cost me 200 NIS less !!! After a long talk with the finance, I found out that the reason for that isthat I do not use a dailer, and the CO of Actcom decided that users without adialer should pay more, alto as most of you know, the infurstracture and the technical stuff for Radius and other servers that are working in the backgroundrequires a lot more work (not to mention the support team that need to handlevery stupid issues such as passowrd lost, incurrect login issues etc) ... The finance person also mentioned that I need to pay more, because a dialergives them (Actcom) the ability to monitor connections. But on LAN (you all knowthat cables connection is a LAN) you can monitor activities as well, and not to mention that a dialer and the rest of the servers that you pass along the waymakes the connection slower.Now don't get me wrong, I really like Actcom, and the fact that they support ourcommunity is a hugh Plus for me, and thats even before I mention their very good tech and Linux support etc..But I do not wish to have a dialer, And I do not like the fact that the usershould handle PPP connections for such thing. ADSL btw also does not reallyrequires user intervention (L2TP is the protocol that ADSL talks, and theoretically the ADSL router should make the converting between Ethernet andADSL on it's own).BTW If they will not give a better price, I don't think that I will continueworking with them next year ... What do you think ?Ido=To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] withthe word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the commandecho unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Actcom without a dailer costs more
this is what i have to say about actcom: last year i got sick of bezeqint's crappy service and their hanging up on me every time i uttered the word linux so i switched to actcom. they were a little more expensive but offered me a deal for a half a year for fifty something shekels for 1.5M. after a half a year, they started charging me about 100 shekels so i called them up and asked them what deal they could offer me now. they said that since my download bandwidth usage was over 9G a month that it wasn't worth it for them and they couldn't offer me anything better! so i switched to netvision who give me 1.5M for forty something shekels without having to even agree to be with them for a minimum amount of time. also, my new connection is much better because apparently actcom was putting a limiter on the connection... so as much as i like actcom's attitude towards linux, i don't think it justifies paying more than twice as much for less bandwidth... oh, and another annoying thing about them - they charged me on the 24th of each month for the service of the month after, so when i called to cancel, they couldn't even reimburse me on the days that i no longer wanted their service. so to sum it up, imho, actcom sux. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ido Kanner Sent: Wed, September 21, 2005 12:08 PM To: Linux-IL Subject: Actcom without a dailer costs more Hi list, Recently I updated my 4 years old account in Actcom (this is my 4th year). After watching the price of the account in my office, I found out that I pay a lot more for a lot less. That is I pay 760 NIS for 750 without a dialer, while at work we pay a lot less for a faster connection. BTW I was told that if I'll move to a dialer, it will cost me 200 NIS less !!! After a long talk with the finance, I found out that the reason for that is that I do not use a dailer, and the CO of Actcom decided that users without a dialer should pay more, alto as most of you know, the infurstracture and the technical stuff for Radius and other servers that are working in the background requires a lot more work (not to mention the support team that need to handle very stupid issues such as passowrd lost, incurrect login issues etc) ... The finance person also mentioned that I need to pay more, because a dialer gives them (Actcom) the ability to monitor connections. But on LAN (you all know that cables connection is a LAN) you can monitor activities as well, and not to mention that a dialer and the rest of the servers that you pass along the way makes the connection slower. Now don't get me wrong, I really like Actcom, and the fact that they support our community is a hugh Plus for me, and thats even before I mention their very good tech and Linux support etc.. But I do not wish to have a dialer, And I do not like the fact that the user should handle PPP connections for such thing. ADSL btw also does not really requires user intervention (L2TP is the protocol that ADSL talks, and theoretically the ADSL router should make the converting between Ethernet and ADSL on it's own). BTW If they will not give a better price, I don't think that I will continue working with them next year ... What do you think ? Ido = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** Information contained in this email message is intended only for use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the [EMAIL PROTECTED] and destroy the original message. *** To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Procmail
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Re: Actcom without a dailer costs more
Ido Kanner wrote: Hi list, Recently I updated my 4 years old account in Actcom (this is my 4th year). After watching the price of the account in my office, I found out that I pay a lot more for a lot less. That is I pay 760 NIS for 750 without a dialer, while at work we pay a lot less for a faster connection. I don't know about you. I just know that their initial stake is to increase your payment each year. then if you shut up, you pay more for less. they want to make money, in the end. fight with them, argue, make some noisy letters and they will prefer a lower price than no customer at all. unfortunately this is a very common practice in Israel. ( cannot witness about other countries ) I personally hate this. Best regards, Max. BTW I was told that if I'll move to a dialer, it will cost me 200 NIS less !!! After a long talk with the finance, I found out that the reason for that is that I do not use a dailer, and the CO of Actcom decided that users without a dialer should pay more, alto as most of you know, the infurstracture and the technical stuff for Radius and other servers that are working in the background requires a lot more work (not to mention the support team that need to handle very stupid issues such as passowrd lost, incurrect login issues etc) ... The finance person also mentioned that I need to pay more, because a dialer gives them (Actcom) the ability to monitor connections. But on LAN (you all know that cables connection is a LAN) you can monitor activities as well, and not to mention that a dialer and the rest of the servers that you pass along the way makes the connection slower. Now don't get me wrong, I really like Actcom, and the fact that they support our community is a hugh Plus for me, and thats even before I mention their very good tech and Linux support etc.. But I do not wish to have a dialer, And I do not like the fact that the user should handle PPP connections for such thing. ADSL btw also does not really requires user intervention (L2TP is the protocol that ADSL talks, and theoretically the ADSL router should make the converting between Ethernet and ADSL on it's own). BTW If they will not give a better price, I don't think that I will continue working with them next year ... What do you think ? Ido = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Actcom without a dailer costs more
After being with Actcom for almost 8 years even when their bandwidth was crappy, the same things recently happen to me with them- they claimed that in 3 months I downloaded 20GB of Data and that according to that I should be paying them 3 times the amount I paid until now (I paid a year in advance), I told them that to me that sounds reasonable and I reminded them that I have no contractual limit on my usage, that I paid extra to increase my upload to 150kbps and to be fair, I don't think 20GB for 3 months (both TX and RX) is abusive of the service. I was insulted and left them a couple weeks early even on my expense just to get rid of them- nothing I could say could talk them out of their treating me as an ISP terrorist. They are not the same pro Linux community small and friendly ISP, they are moving to be completely business oriented and care less about the small single user. (IMHO) -David -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alex Shnitman Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 1:00 PM To: linux-il@linux.org.il Subject: RE: Actcom without a dailer costs more Same story here. I signed up for a year, and after the year ended they told me I have too pay 2000 NIS for the next year (that's 166 NIS a month!) because of high bandwidth usage. So I guess that's what they need the monitoring for. I'm also a happy Netvision customer now. Although having a static IP was pretty cool. --Alex --- El-al, Netta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: this is what i have to say about actcom: last year i got sick of bezeqint's crappy service and their hanging up on me every time i uttered the word linux so i switched to actcom. they were a little more expensive but offered me a deal for a half a year for fifty something shekels for 1.5M. after a half a year, they started charging me about 100 shekels so i called them up and asked them what deal they could offer me now. they said that since my download bandwidth usage was over 9G a month that it wasn't worth it for them and they couldn't offer me anything better! so i switched to netvision who give me 1.5M for forty something shekels without having to even agree to be with them for a minimum amount of time. also, my new connection is much better because apparently actcom was putting a limiter on the connection... so as much as i like actcom's attitude towards linux, i don't think it justifies paying more than twice as much for less bandwidth... oh, and another annoying thing about them - they charged me on the 24th of each month for the service of the month after, so when i called to cancel, they couldn't even reimburse me on the days that i no longer wanted their service. so to sum it up, imho, actcom sux. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ido Kanner Sent: Wed, September 21, 2005 12:08 PM To: Linux-IL Subject: Actcom without a dailer costs more Hi list, Recently I updated my 4 years old account in Actcom (this is my 4th year). After watching the price of the account in my office, I found out that I pay a lot more for a lot less. That is I pay 760 NIS for 750 without a dialer, while at work we pay a lot less for a faster connection. BTW I was told that if I'll move to a dialer, it will cost me 200 NIS less !!! After a long talk with the finance, I found out that the reason for that is that I do not use a dailer, and the CO of Actcom decided that users without a dialer should pay more, alto as most of you know, the infurstracture and the technical stuff for Radius and other servers that are working in the background requires a lot more work (not to mention the support team that need to handle very stupid issues such as passowrd lost, incurrect login issues etc) ... The finance person also mentioned that I need to pay more, because a dialer gives them (Actcom) the ability to monitor connections. But on LAN (you all know that cables connection is a LAN) you can monitor activities as well, and not to mention that a dialer and the rest of the servers that you pass along the way makes the connection slower. Now don't get me wrong, I really like Actcom, and the fact that they support our community is a hugh Plus for me, and thats even before I mention their very good tech and Linux support etc.. But I do not wish to have a dialer, And I do not like the fact that the user should handle PPP connections for such thing. ADSL btw also does not really requires user intervention (L2TP is the protocol that ADSL talks, and theoretically the ADSL router should make the converting between Ethernet and ADSL on it's own). BTW If they will not give a better price, I don't think that I will continue working with them next year ... What do you think ? Ido
Re: Actcom without a dailer costs more
On Wed, Sep 21, 2005, David Randelman wrote about RE: Actcom without a dailer costs more: have no contractual limit on my usage, that I paid extra to increase my upload to 150kbps and to be fair, I don't think 20GB for 3 months (both TX and RX) is abusive of the service. What's strange about these stories is that they appear to complain about usages which don't appear extreme at all. 20 GB for 3 months is just 2.5 KB/s (20 kbps), an amount that even a modem user could use (say, connected 8 hours a day). If you're not even allowed to constantly use 20 kbps, what's the point in selling you a 1500 kbps connection? If you use the full speed of your connection for just 19 minutes a day, you'll reach 20 GB after 3 months. And when you consider that downloading a new Linux distribution takes up about 4 GB, that maintaining your system upgraded often requires a further 100 MB a week (hey, Fedora, stop updating huge packages like X, KDE, etc.!), 20 GB for 3 months doesn't even sound that much. I'd be suprised if I don't reach 20 GB for 3 months as well - and I swear that I don't download any movies :-) -- Nadav Har'El| Wednesday, Sep 21 2005, 17 Elul 5765 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |I put a dollar in one of those change http://nadav.harel.org.il |machines. Nothing changed. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Actcom without a dailer costs more
btw, i asked them why they care how much bandwidth i use and they said something about them paying netvision for the bandwidth usage... strange... are they basically using netvision's service and charging users to be the go-between? (oh, and btw, i had a problem accessing www.craiglist.org and when i called actcom and complained, they said that craiglist bans all actcom addresses and there's nothing they can do. wtf?) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of David Randelman Sent: Wed, September 21, 2005 4:20 PM To: linux-il@linux.org.il Subject: RE: Actcom without a dailer costs more After being with Actcom for almost 8 years even when their bandwidth was crappy, the same things recently happen to me with them- they claimed that in 3 months I downloaded 20GB of Data and that according to that I should be paying them 3 times the amount I paid until now (I paid a year in advance), I told them that to me that sounds reasonable and I reminded them that I have no contractual limit on my usage, that I paid extra to increase my upload to 150kbps and to be fair, I don't think 20GB for 3 months (both TX and RX) is abusive of the service. I was insulted and left them a couple weeks early even on my expense just to get rid of them- nothing I could say could talk them out of their treating me as an ISP terrorist. They are not the same pro Linux community small and friendly ISP, they are moving to be completely business oriented and care less about the small single user. (IMHO) -David -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alex Shnitman Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 1:00 PM To: linux-il@linux.org.il Subject: RE: Actcom without a dailer costs more Same story here. I signed up for a year, and after the year ended they told me I have too pay 2000 NIS for the next year (that's 166 NIS a month!) because of high bandwidth usage. So I guess that's what they need the monitoring for. I'm also a happy Netvision customer now. Although having a static IP was pretty cool. --Alex --- El-al, Netta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: this is what i have to say about actcom: last year i got sick of bezeqint's crappy service and their hanging up on me every time i uttered the word linux so i switched to actcom. they were a little more expensive but offered me a deal for a half a year for fifty something shekels for 1.5M. after a half a year, they started charging me about 100 shekels so i called them up and asked them what deal they could offer me now. they said that since my download bandwidth usage was over 9G a month that it wasn't worth it for them and they couldn't offer me anything better! so i switched to netvision who give me 1.5M for forty something shekels without having to even agree to be with them for a minimum amount of time. also, my new connection is much better because apparently actcom was putting a limiter on the connection... so as much as i like actcom's attitude towards linux, i don't think it justifies paying more than twice as much for less bandwidth... oh, and another annoying thing about them - they charged me on the 24th of each month for the service of the month after, so when i called to cancel, they couldn't even reimburse me on the days that i no longer wanted their service. so to sum it up, imho, actcom sux. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ido Kanner Sent: Wed, September 21, 2005 12:08 PM To: Linux-IL Subject: Actcom without a dailer costs more Hi list, Recently I updated my 4 years old account in Actcom (this is my 4th year). After watching the price of the account in my office, I found out that I pay a lot more for a lot less. That is I pay 760 NIS for 750 without a dialer, while at work we pay a lot less for a faster connection. BTW I was told that if I'll move to a dialer, it will cost me 200 NIS less !!! After a long talk with the finance, I found out that the reason for that is that I do not use a dailer, and the CO of Actcom decided that users without a dialer should pay more, alto as most of you know, the infurstracture and the technical stuff for Radius and other servers that are working in the background requires a lot more work (not to mention the support team that need to handle very stupid issues such as passowrd lost, incurrect login issues etc) ... The finance person also mentioned that I need to pay more, because a dialer gives them (Actcom) the ability to monitor connections. But on LAN (you all know that cables connection is a LAN) you can monitor activities as well, and not to mention that a dialer and the rest of the
Re: Actcom without a dailer costs more
El-al, Netta [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: this is what i have to say about actcom: last year i got sick of bezeqint's crappy service and their hanging up on me every time i uttered the word linux so i switched to actcom. they were a little more expensive but offered me a deal for a half a year for fifty something shekels for 1.5M. after a half a year, they started charging me about 100 shekels so i called them up and asked them what deal they could offer me now. they said that since my download bandwidth usage was over 9G a month that it wasn't worth it for them and they couldn't offer me anything better! This fits my (lack of) experience with them. Some years ago I was shopping for an ADSL connection and called a few ISPs. I called Actcom because of their reputation within the community. They asked (via a written contract) whether I was going to connect one computer or several. I said it was none of their business. They said that for 2 or more computers I would have to pay several times more. I asked how they were going to notice. They admitted they could not, but still insisted that was their pricing model. In the end, I called Netvision and asked, among other questions, if they cared about what I had on my end behind NAT. They said, not in the least. Deduction: Actcom are cheap. They buy bandwidth from the networks and sell it to subscribers, living off the difference. They buy too little, and overbook (in terms of the nominal bandwidth), counting on the typical user to use only a small fraction of the nominal allocation. Then, if a particular user has several computers (hence several potential simultaneous users) or just downloads a lot, they are in trouble, and they want to charge extra for this. Other providers, such as Netvision, buy more BW, probably live on a thinner margin, but don't oversubscribe so drastically. -- Oleg Goldshmidt | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.goldshmidt.org = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Actcom without a dailer costs more
On Wed, Sep 21, 2005 at 03:59:57AM -0700, Alex Shnitman wrote: Same story here. I signed up for a year, and after the year ended they told me I have too pay 2000 NIS for the next year (that's 166 NIS a month!) because of high bandwidth usage. So I guess that's what they need the monitoring for. I'm also a happy Netvision customer now. Although having a static IP was pretty cool. Having a static IP in netvision costs me $15/month, signed up for a year. That's around 20 NIS more than not having it. I am not sure about actcom rates, but IIRC they are a bit higher, which makes it even less than 20 NIS more expensive. This is, BTW, for 1.5mbit/s dl. I am not sure about the upload - I think it's 150kbit/s. I did not buy from bezeq higher upload as it costs much more, but I still get around 120kbit/s, although I think my deal says I have 96kbit/s. To buy this from netvision, you have to be a business customer. I do not know what advantages this gives, if at all, except having prices in $ (which IIRC is illegal?). One weird small disadvantage is that you can't change your password from the website - only by phone, only to a new random one. Weird. -- Didi = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Actcom without a dailer costs more
Nadav Har'El [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What's strange about these stories is that they appear to complain about usages which don't appear extreme at all. 20 GB for 3 months is just 2.5 KB/s (20 kbps), an amount that even a modem user could use (say, connected 8 hours a day). If you're not even allowed to constantly use 20 kbps, what's the point in selling you a 1500 kbps connection? If you use the full speed of your connection for just 19 minutes a day, you'll reach 20 GB after 3 months. The point is that they don't count on you to use the full bandwidth apart from maybe very short bursts. 9GB/mo that Netta reported if used evenly on a day-on-day basis works out to about 300MB/day. If their typical household customer spends maybe an hour or two a day on line, mainly emailing and browsing, and only occasionally downloading a few songs or a movie, such a customer will not reach 300MB/day. And when you consider that downloading a new Linux distribution takes up about 4 GB, that maintaining your system upgraded often requires a further 100 MB a week (hey, Fedora, stop updating huge packages like X, KDE, etc.!), RedHat release a new sewt of CDs what, twice a year? And the updates, even if they are 300MB a week, will not reach 300MB/day. I am not arguing that 300MB/day is excessive (I don't recall any caps on download volume on top of the bandwidth allocation). I am just saying it is more than what they base their cost/profit calculations on. -- Oleg Goldshmidt | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.goldshmidt.org = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Actcom without a dailer costs more
On Wed, Sep 21, 2005 at 04:06:51PM +0300, El-al, Netta wrote: btw, i asked them why they care how much bandwidth i use and they said something about them paying netvision for the bandwidth usage... strange... are they basically using netvision's service and charging users to be the go-between? (oh, and btw, i had a problem accessing www.craiglist.org and when i called actcom and complained, they said that craiglist bans all actcom addresses and there's nothing they can do. wtf?) Maybe it has something to do with Craig's sponsoring Palestinian charaties? Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel [EMAIL PROTECTED] N3OWJ/4X1GM IL Voice: (077)-424-1667 IL Fax: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838 Support the growing boycott of Google by radio users and hobbyists. It's starting to work, Yahoo has surpassed Google. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Actcom without a dailer costs more
Hi list, I am hoping that somebody from Actcom themselves is reading this list and will give us some facts. I personally have been very satisfied with the service I have received from them for the last 2 years. Their presence at August penguin contradicts the claim of some that they are no longer interested in Linux users. I called them and asked about dialers Chaygan and they told me that it was not possible to connect to the service without one, and that a 750kb connection is NIS513 a year. I currently connect without any such tool and paid a few shekels more than that for my 750kb connection. With regard to the bandwidth and routing issues, I did a few traceroutes to check people's claims. The results are summarised here, a little raw data is below as proof. Actcom are connected to IIX, so at list for data transfer within Israel are an ISP in their own right. Actcom and Netvision appear to be connected together independently of IIX. Packets sent to google.com possibly go via 012. Packets sent to apple.com,microsoft.com,ibm.com,fbi.gov all go via netvision (fbi.gov is only five hops, which is a little spooky) Conclusion: Actcom possibly buy their international bandwidth from other larger providers, this being more economical than buying directly since they are a small ISP. Disclaimer: Above is guesswork, I am not associated with Actcom and the above is derived from my traceroute results shown below with no other info. - l:~$ traceroute www.012.net.il traceroute to www.012.net.il (212.199.79.167), 30 hops max, 38 byte packets 1 v2.actcom.co.il (192.114.47.251) 43.803 ms 29.465 ms 27.990 ms 2 rtr76.actcom.co.il (192.114.47.250) 35.826 ms 28.717 ms 28.003 ms 3 IIX-G-Actcom.iix.net.il (192.114.62.73) 40.600 ms 34.900 ms 31.366 ms 4 GoldenLines-G-IIX.iix.net.il (192.114.62.18) 40.019 ms 36.778 ms 29.935 ms 5 ta-212.199.28.106.012.net.il (212.199.28.106) 40.964 ms 39.342 ms 31.983 ms l:~$ traceroute www.google.com traceroute: Warning: www.google.com has multiple addresses; using 64.233.161.99 traceroute to www.l.google.com (64.233.161.99), 30 hops max, 38 byte packets 1 v2.actcom.co.il (192.114.47.251) 30.914 ms 18.080 ms 18.810 ms 2 rtr76.actcom.co.il (192.114.47.250) 19.584 ms 17.937 ms 48.062 ms 3 212.117.157.165 (212.117.157.165) 29.654 ms 32.213 ms 31.971 ms 4 sa-pt-212.199.26.34.012.net.il (212.199.26.34) 41.273 ms 34.046 ms 29.340 ms 5 pos4-3.ar03.ldn01.pccwbtn.net (63.218.13.137) 109.217 ms 101.065 ms 98.152 ms l:~$ traceroute www.fbi.gov traceroute: Warning: www.fbi.gov has multiple addresses; using 212.143.162.152 traceroute to a33.g.akamai.net (212.143.162.152), 30 hops max, 38 byte packets 1 v2.actcom.co.il (192.114.47.251) 53.353 ms 32.749 ms 26.490 ms 2 rtr76.actcom.co.il (192.114.47.250) 36.254 ms 28.737 ms 28.235 ms 3 nv-act.ser.netvision.net.il (199.203.173.126) 38.604 ms 34.349 ms 31.424 ms 4 gi1-1.srvc02.hfa.nv.net.il (212.143.8.8) 38.955 ms 31.444 ms 28.763 ms 5 212.143.162.152 (212.143.162.152) 38.726 ms 35.511 ms 30.949 ms l:~$ traceroute www.ibm.com traceroute: Warning: www.ibm.com has multiple addresses; using 129.42.21.99 traceroute to www.ibm.com (129.42.21.99), 30 hops max, 38 byte packets 1 v2.actcom.co.il (192.114.47.251) 40.634 ms 20.987 ms 19.143 ms 2 rtr76.actcom.co.il (192.114.47.250) 26.717 ms 19.492 ms 33.986 ms 3 nv-act.ser.netvision.net.il (199.203.173.126) 19.839 ms 22.514 ms 23.643 ms 4 gi1-1.core2.hfa.nv.net.il (212.143.8.65) 22.608 ms 21.647 ms 23.406 ms l:~$ traceroute www.apple.com traceroute to www.apple.com.akadns.net (17.254.0.91), 30 hops max, 38 byte packets 1 v2.actcom.co.il (192.114.47.251) 34.423 ms 30.354 ms 28.062 ms 2 rtr76.actcom.co.il (192.114.47.250) 36.322 ms 29.157 ms 27.967 ms 3 nv-act.ser.netvision.net.il (199.203.173.126) 40.476 ms 22.413 ms 23.060 ms 4 gi1-1.core2.hfa.nv.net.il (212.143.8.65) 19.717 ms 36.502 ms 32.242 ms 5 pos1-0.brdr1.nyc.nv.net.il (212.143.12.13) 229.689 ms 221.862 ms 188.585 ms 6 Gigabitethernet4-0.GW12.NYC4.ALTER.NET (157.130.25.37) 165.940 ms = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Actcom without a dailer costs more
On Wed, 21 Sep 2005, Random Penguin wrote: Packets sent to apple.com,microsoft.com,ibm.com,fbi.gov all go via netvision (fbi.gov is only five hops, which is a little spooky) Your data is faulty... All these are hosted in Israel via akamai or similar services. Alon -- This message was sent by Alon Altman ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) ICQ:1366540 GPG public key at http://8ln.org/pubkey.txt Key fingerprint = A670 6C81 19D3 3773 3627 DE14 B44A 50A3 FE06 7F24 -- -=[ Random Fortune ]=- Too many people are thinking of security instead of opportunity. They seem more afraid of life than death. -- James F. Byrnes = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Linux BitTorrent client question
Hi, I'm looking for a bit torrent client that runs under linux and has an unusual option. If I am downloading a torrent that contains several parts, let's say a linux CD install set, I want the client to finish downloading each entire part first, before starting the next. For example, the torrent I am downloading contains 4 cd images, 1.iso, 2.iso, 3.iso and 4.iso. I would like it to finish 1.iso before it starts downloading 2.iso, finish 2.iso before starting 3.iso and finish 3.iso before it starts downloading 4.iso. The current clients I have tried do not do this. Once they have started a piece as a connection frees, they start the next piece. Often 1.iso is not finished until all 4 files are downloaded and the torrent client goes into seeding mode. You can watch the pieces go from 0 bytes and move up as the download starts, but as I said, they are not complete (or useable) until all are done. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel [EMAIL PROTECTED] N3OWJ/4X1GM IL Voice: (077)-424-1667 IL Fax: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838 Support the growing boycott of Google by radio users and hobbyists. It's starting to work, Yahoo has surpassed Google. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Linux BitTorrent client question
Quoting Geoffrey S. Mendelson, from the post of Wed, 21 Sep: If I am downloading a torrent that contains several parts, let's say a linux CD install set, I want the client to finish downloading each entire part first, before starting the next. it's not a bug, it's a feature. the torrent does not really care where one file begins and another ends, for the torent the entire package is one large tar. to download sequencially will mean that the algorithm needs to change and you lose all the benefints of opportunistic downloads. if everyone downloads from start to end and the only seed dies for some reason, you end up with 20 people holding only the first half. if they all pick random blocks while the seed is up, then if it goes away, they still all have bits to share until the seed comes back. Geoff, did you really need this spelled out? I thought you know your algos... maybe some sleep? :) -- Pieless piper Ira Abramov http://ira.abramov.org/email/ = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Linux BitTorrent client question
On Wed, Sep 21, 2005 at 07:36:07PM +0300, Ira Abramov wrote: it's not a bug, it's a feature. the torrent does not really care where one file begins and another ends, for the torent the entire package is one large tar. to download sequencially will mean that the algorithm needs to change and you lose all the benefints of opportunistic downloads. I know that's the standard algorythm, but somewhere in the code it has to decide when to start a new file. I just want to make it decide differently. if everyone downloads from start to end and the only seed dies for some reason, you end up with 20 people holding only the first half. if they all pick random blocks while the seed is up, then if it goes away, they still all have bits to share until the seed comes back. That's a neat idea, but it really does not act that way. For example, I am currently downloading a block of files, 21 to be exact and so far they have taken a day each. If you did an ls -s of the directory, you would see each file start at 0 and as one reached it's full size, the next one starts to grow. I assume that once the entire file has been allocated, then it is downloaded that way but until then, it's files with their full size and files of zero length with one file in between. But until all of the files are done, none of them are done. Since it's taking so long, I'd rather get each file one at a time. Then if the seeds die or the tracker goes away on the 20th day, I have something useable instead of 20 files of junk. This probably would make bittorrent less robust, but it would make it a lot more loveable to those who want it. Obviously on the files that I can get at 100+ bytes per second I don't care. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel [EMAIL PROTECTED] N3OWJ/4X1GM IL Voice: (077)-424-1667 IL Fax: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838 Support the growing boycott of Google by radio users and hobbyists. It's starting to work, Yahoo has surpassed Google. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Actcom without a dailer costs more
On Wed, 21 Sep 2005, El-al, Netta wrote: btw, i asked them why they care how much bandwidth i use and they said something about them paying netvision for the bandwidth usage... strange... are they basically using netvision's service and charging users to be the go-between? (oh, and btw, i had a problem accessing www.craiglist.org and when i called actcom and complained, they said that craiglist bans all actcom addresses and there's nothing they can do. wtf?) I also complained about this and it is fixed now. Peter = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Old laptop is firewall, spindown the disk?
Did it: works great. Thanks. Yedidyah Bar-David wrote: On Mon, Sep 19, 2005 at 03:25:59PM +0300, David Harel wrote: Hi, I have this old laptop I turned into a firewall. It is only doing IP forwarding (NAT, MASQUERADING or whatever it takes) using iptables. I have 256MB ram on it. My idea is to have the disk spin down unless it is needed. Any idea? Mount root with noatime. Google for noflushd. Stop all unnecessary daemons. Good luck, -- Thanks. David Harel, == Home office +972 4 6921986 Fax:+972 4 6921986 Cellular: +972 54 4534502 Snail Mail: Amuka D.N Merom Hagalil 13802 Israel Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Linux BitTorrent client question
Geoff, I readily admit that I don't know much about how bittorrent works, so maybe I will say something stupid. Who cares - it will not be the first or the last time... Assuming you use a client with a CLI, and to download a bunch of files you do sth like $ download $files won't a simple for loop, like $ for f in $files; do download $f; done do what you want? -- Oleg Goldshmidt | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.goldshmidt.org = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Linux BitTorrent client question
On 22 Sep 2005 01:23:48 +, Oleg Goldshmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Geoff, I readily admit that I don't know much about how bittorrent works, so maybe I will say something stupid. Who cares - it will not be the first or the last time... Assuming you use a client with a CLI, and to download a bunch of files you do sth like $ download $files won't a simple for loop, like $ for f in $files; do download $f; done do what you want? That's not the way Bittorrent works - it works by having the client pointed to a seed which lists files and where can they be fetched right now. My question here is: Can you maybe download the seed and split it to multiple seeds, one for each file? If so then you might be able to do as Oleg suggests? (I just don't have the time to try this myself). And an unrelated question: Once I downloaded a large image (CentOS 4.1 DVD) and quit the client, can I somehow bring the client up in a way that will offer my copy for upload to others, even if I don't download anymore? I have debian Sarge on my machine now. Cheers, --Amos To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Actcom without a dailer costs more
Hi, I myself uses cables, but dialers are a hoax (at least for customers). In ADSL instead of making the modem/router of ADSL to speak ADSL and Ethernet, it speaks only ADSL, and the dialer make the talking of ADSL and Ethernet for you. In cables, it seems that without a dialer, the cables company controls your connection, and with one, the ISP control it. I myself can not see or understand any reason why as a customer I need to be interested that the ISP have any issues with the cables companies. He chooses to support this technology, and it's the ISP problem only. I do not need any dialer and I do not need to control this type of thing. ADSL and cables can be 100% LAN for customers if they do not need any dialer. Just think about all the lack of disconnections that users will experience without any dialer for example. So again, as a customer, for me a dialer is a hoax that only make things complicated without any real need, and if I need to use a dialer, I do not think that I'll use Actcom anymore specially after reading other comments here. Ido On Wednesday 21 September 2005 23:30, Aaron wrote: Hi, I had this happen as far as price was concerned. I just compared the price others were getting for the same or more service and threatened to switch to the other company and I got a better price. The dialer issue I never even fought though, and you are right the dailer is a pain, I had no idea there was a choice to connect without a dialer. Are you talking adsl or cable? Aaron On Wed, 2005-09-21 at 12:07 +0300, Ido Kanner wrote: Hi list, Recently I updated my 4 years old account in Actcom (this is my 4th year). After watching the price of the account in my office, I found out that I pay a lot more for a lot less. That is I pay 760 NIS for 750 without a dialer, while at work we pay a lot less for a faster connection. BTW I was told that if I'll move to a dialer, it will cost me 200 NIS less !!! After a long talk with the finance, I found out that the reason for that is that I do not use a dailer, and the CO of Actcom decided that users without a dialer should pay more, alto as most of you know, the infurstracture and the technical stuff for Radius and other servers that are working in the background requires a lot more work (not to mention the support team that need to handle very stupid issues such as passowrd lost, incurrect login issues etc) ... The finance person also mentioned that I need to pay more, because a dialer gives them (Actcom) the ability to monitor connections. But on LAN (you all know that cables connection is a LAN) you can monitor activities as well, and not to mention that a dialer and the rest of the servers that you pass along the way makes the connection slower. Now don't get me wrong, I really like Actcom, and the fact that they support our community is a hugh Plus for me, and thats even before I mention their very good tech and Linux support etc.. But I do not wish to have a dialer, And I do not like the fact that the user should handle PPP connections for such thing. ADSL btw also does not really requires user intervention (L2TP is the protocol that ADSL talks, and theoretically the ADSL router should make the converting between Ethernet and ADSL on it's own). BTW If they will not give a better price, I don't think that I will continue working with them next year ... What do you think ? Ido = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Artificial Intelligence: Making computers behave like they do in the movies. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Linux BitTorrent client question
In Windows there's a Client called BitComet. This client allows u to ban certain content, blocking it from being downloaded. That way you can download just the files you want and it works. Bittorrent OR bittornado should have a similar option. Haven't checked it out though, will do when I get around my linux box. AlexOn 9/21/05, Geoffrey S. Mendelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Sep 21, 2005 at 07:36:07PM +0300, Ira Abramov wrote: it's not a bug, it's a feature. the torrent does not really care where one file begins and another ends, for the torent the entire package is one large tar. to download sequencially will mean that the algorithm needs to change and you lose all the benefints of opportunistic downloads.I know that's the standard algorythm, but somewhere in the code it has to decide when to start a new file. I just want to make it decide differently. if everyone downloads from start to end and the only seed dies for some reason, you end up with 20 people holding only the first half. if they all pick random blocks while the seed is up, then if it goes away, they still all have bits to share until the seed comes back.That's a neat idea, but it really does not act that way. For example, I am currently downloading a block of files, 21 to be exact and so farthey have taken a day each. If you did an ls -s of the directory, youwould see each file start at 0 and as one reached it's full size, the next one starts to grow.I assume that once the entire file has been allocated, then it is downloadedthat way but until then, it's files with their full size and files of zerolength with one file in between But until all of the files are done, none of them are done.Since it's taking so long, I'd rather get each file one at a time. Then ifthe seeds die or the tracker goes away on the 20th day, I have somethinguseable instead of 20 files of junk. This probably would make bittorrent less robust, but it would make ita lot more loveable to those who want it.Obviously on the files that I can get at 100+ bytes per second I don't care. Geoff.--Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel [EMAIL PROTECTED]N3OWJ/4X1GMIL Voice: (077)-424-1667IL Fax: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838Support the growing boycott of Google by radio users and hobbyists. It's starting to work, Yahoo has surpassed Google.=To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] withthe word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the commandecho unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- || Alex Alexander|| Linux :: Debian 'sarge' (work) 'sid' (home) :: 2.6.12 :: KDE 3.4.2\
