Re: [pfSense] Netgate APU2 SSD module question
All I'm saying is that a normal SLC cell can handle about 10 times more writes then a MLC if everything else is the same. And as far as I ca tell, the ability to handle writes is the OPs main concern. A SLC based SDHC card will have about 10 times longer life span in that regard. If you want it perfect then sure there are better options and technologies. I'm just trying to make the choice a easy one based on what the OP asked. There is allways better cheaper and faster tech just around the corner. 27. aug. 2014 21:26 skrev Jim Thompson j...@smallworks.com følgende: SD cards are storage, but not “disks” nor “drives”. Beyond m-SATA, eMMC is your best option. Not only are they faster than SD cards (speeds of the larger devices rival those of traditional SSDs, as well as supporting a “TRIM”-like operation, priority interruptible READ and ERASE operations, background operations, and riding the cost-curve of cellular handsets (growing) .vs consumer point-and-shoot cameras (shrinking), etc.) (This, by the way, is a huge, huge ‘hint’.) (You may wish read between the lines.) A lot of the SLC / MLC mythos is from before the days of JEDEC standards for endurance, advanced wear-leveling algorithms, and before a lof of the firmware engineers understood concepts such as “read disturbance”, “write disturbance”, and “ECC correction thresholds”. It’s certainly not as simple as you’re making it out to be. (This, again, is the big reason that Netgate stayed out of the early fracas around SSDs.) I’m not going to depend on what someone said in the forum over 3 years ago, since it’s unlikely to apply today. Jim On Aug 27, 2014, at 1:32 PM, Espen Johansen pfse...@gmail.com wrote: For completeness sake. Just to clarify. You can get SDHC cards that are SLC based. Pretty much everything called industrial grade SD/SDHC will be a SLC SSD in SD format. Understood. Thank you for the clarification. Would it be possible to have the description updated on the sales page? It only says you can boot via SD through USB. -- Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com m. 651.373.5015 o. 612.568.2749 On Aug 27, 2014, at 9:24, Jim Thompson j...@netgate.com wrote: Yes, the system can be booted from an SD (or SDHC) card. Or from USB, or from the m-SATA. All of these require proper preparation of the requisite ‘disk’ (-like device). Jim On Aug 27, 2014, at 9:21 AM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: I understand *that* however it doesn't say on the features page it can be booted off the SD slot - is that true? If so I have to change a few quotes I have in play as they will need to get mSATA SSDs instead. On Aug 27, 2014, at 9:20, Jim Thompson j...@smallworks.com wrote: The SD (SDHC describes some cards which work in the slot) card slot is a “base feature”. If people choose to fit a m-SATA drive, then they can. Or they can use the SD card socket. It’s not like we’re going to de-solder the SD card socket if it’s not going to be used. Neither are we going to carry two different SKUs (one with, one without). Jim On Aug 27, 2014, at 7:57 AM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: Why not answer the question? On Aug 27, 2014, at 7:56, Jim Thompson j...@netgate.com wrote: Ryan, Don't troll. On Aug 27, 2014, at 7:33 AM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: Wait, so the SDHC slot on this board is simply for show? On Aug 26, 2014, at 13:56, Sergii Cherkashyn ser...@accurategroup.com wrote: Thank you Espen, Squid is for filtering purpose only, not to save bandwidth. On Netgate they have only this SSD as an option. But I’ll keep your advice in mind. Best regards*,* *Sergii Cherkashyn* Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 20:45:46 +0200 From: Espen Johansen pfse...@gmail.com To: pfSense support and discussion list@lists.pfsense.org Subject: Re: [pfSense] Netgate APU2 SSD module question Message-ID: caadq7-adzhlsv1p6rl7kwaaomaws1uqcet6fxa5ngdn8sl5...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I personally don't think you will have an issue with too many writes in a normal environment. Why squid tho? if its for filtering fine. For acceleration and 3-6 persons it will most likely not do you much good. Also check MLC vs SLC. SLC based SSD will last longer. Approximately 10 times longer. And even more with the right write leveling tech. Just my 2 cents. ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Re: [pfSense] Netgate APU2 SSD module question
And I'm saying that you have to evaluate these things as systems, not the base level tech. On Aug 28, 2014, at 8:06 AM, Espen Johansen pfse...@gmail.com wrote: All I'm saying is that a normal SLC cell can handle about 10 times more writes then a MLC if everything else is the same. And as far as I ca tell, the ability to handle writes is the OPs main concern. A SLC based SDHC card will have about 10 times longer life span in that regard. If you want it perfect then sure there are better options and technologies. I'm just trying to make the choice a easy one based on what the OP asked. There is allways better cheaper and faster tech just around the corner. 27. aug. 2014 21:26 skrev Jim Thompson j...@smallworks.com følgende: SD cards are storage, but not “disks” nor “drives”. Beyond m-SATA, eMMC is your best option. Not only are they faster than SD cards (speeds of the larger devices rival those of traditional SSDs, as well as supporting a “TRIM”-like operation, priority interruptible READ and ERASE operations, background operations, and riding the cost-curve of cellular handsets (growing) .vs consumer point-and-shoot cameras (shrinking), etc.) (This, by the way, is a huge, huge ‘hint’.) (You may wish read between the lines.) A lot of the SLC / MLC mythos is from before the days of JEDEC standards for endurance, advanced wear-leveling algorithms, and before a lof of the firmware engineers understood concepts such as “read disturbance”, “write disturbance”, and “ECC correction thresholds”. It’s certainly not as simple as you’re making it out to be. (This, again, is the big reason that Netgate stayed out of the early fracas around SSDs.) I’m not going to depend on what someone said in the forum over 3 years ago, since it’s unlikely to apply today. Jim On Aug 27, 2014, at 1:32 PM, Espen Johansen pfse...@gmail.com wrote: For completeness sake. Just to clarify. You can get SDHC cards that are SLC based. Pretty much everything called industrial grade SD/SDHC will be a SLC SSD in SD format. Understood. Thank you for the clarification. Would it be possible to have the description updated on the sales page? It only says you can boot via SD through USB. -- Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com m. 651.373.5015 o. 612.568.2749 On Aug 27, 2014, at 9:24, Jim Thompson j...@netgate.com wrote: Yes, the system can be booted from an SD (or SDHC) card. Or from USB, or from the m-SATA. All of these require proper preparation of the requisite ‘disk’ (-like device). Jim On Aug 27, 2014, at 9:21 AM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: I understand *that* however it doesn't say on the features page it can be booted off the SD slot - is that true? If so I have to change a few quotes I have in play as they will need to get mSATA SSDs instead. On Aug 27, 2014, at 9:20, Jim Thompson j...@smallworks.com wrote: The SD (SDHC describes some cards which work in the slot) card slot is a “base feature”. If people choose to fit a m-SATA drive, then they can. Or they can use the SD card socket. It’s not like we’re going to de-solder the SD card socket if it’s not going to be used. Neither are we going to carry two different SKUs (one with, one without). Jim On Aug 27, 2014, at 7:57 AM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: Why not answer the question? On Aug 27, 2014, at 7:56, Jim Thompson j...@netgate.com wrote: Ryan, Don't troll. On Aug 27, 2014, at 7:33 AM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: Wait, so the SDHC slot on this board is simply for show? On Aug 26, 2014, at 13:56, Sergii Cherkashyn ser...@accurategroup.com wrote: Thank you Espen, Squid is for filtering purpose only, not to save bandwidth. On Netgate they have only this SSD as an option. But I’ll keep your advice in mind. Best regards, Sergii Cherkashyn Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 20:45:46 +0200 From: Espen Johansen pfse...@gmail.com To: pfSense support and discussion list@lists.pfsense.org Subject: Re: [pfSense] Netgate APU2 SSD module question Message-ID: caadq7-adzhlsv1p6rl7kwaaomaws1uqcet6fxa5ngdn8sl5...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I personally don't think you will have an issue with too many writes in a normal environment. Why squid tho? if its for filtering fine. For acceleration and 3-6 persons it will most likely not do you much good. Also check MLC vs SLC. SLC based SSD will last longer. Approximately 10 times longer. And even more with the right write leveling tech. Just my 2 cents. ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List
Re: [pfSense] Netgate APU2 SSD module question
As a photographer of many many years - the SD cards on the market for us exceed the life span of CF. HOWEVER CF has a much larger potential capacity. If you spend $10 on a card that has a higher end build for $50 you should know your data will fail sooner rather than later. On Aug 28, 2014, at 9:12, Jim Thompson j...@netgate.com wrote: And I'm saying that you have to evaluate these things as systems, not the base level tech. On Aug 28, 2014, at 8:06 AM, Espen Johansen pfse...@gmail.com wrote: All I'm saying is that a normal SLC cell can handle about 10 times more writes then a MLC if everything else is the same. And as far as I ca tell, the ability to handle writes is the OPs main concern. A SLC based SDHC card will have about 10 times longer life span in that regard. If you want it perfect then sure there are better options and technologies. I'm just trying to make the choice a easy one based on what the OP asked. There is allways better cheaper and faster tech just around the corner. 27. aug. 2014 21:26 skrev Jim Thompson j...@smallworks.com følgende: SD cards are storage, but not “disks” nor “drives”. Beyond m-SATA, eMMC is your best option. Not only are they faster than SD cards (speeds of the larger devices rival those of traditional SSDs, as well as supporting a “TRIM”-like operation, priority interruptible READ and ERASE operations, background operations, and riding the cost-curve of cellular handsets (growing) .vs consumer point-and-shoot cameras (shrinking), etc.) (This, by the way, is a huge, huge ‘hint’.) (You may wish read between the lines.) A lot of the SLC / MLC mythos is from before the days of JEDEC standards for endurance, advanced wear-leveling algorithms, and before a lof of the firmware engineers understood concepts such as “read disturbance”, “write disturbance”, and “ECC correction thresholds”. It’s certainly not as simple as you’re making it out to be. (This, again, is the big reason that Netgate stayed out of the early fracas around SSDs.) I’m not going to depend on what someone said in the forum over 3 years ago, since it’s unlikely to apply today. Jim On Aug 27, 2014, at 1:32 PM, Espen Johansen pfse...@gmail.com wrote: For completeness sake. Just to clarify. You can get SDHC cards that are SLC based. Pretty much everything called industrial grade SD/SDHC will be a SLC SSD in SD format. Understood. Thank you for the clarification. Would it be possible to have the description updated on the sales page? It only says you can boot via SD through USB. -- Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com m. 651.373.5015 o. 612.568.2749 On Aug 27, 2014, at 9:24, Jim Thompson j...@netgate.com wrote: Yes, the system can be booted from an SD (or SDHC) card. Or from USB, or from the m-SATA. All of these require proper preparation of the requisite ‘disk’ (-like device). Jim On Aug 27, 2014, at 9:21 AM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: I understand *that* however it doesn't say on the features page it can be booted off the SD slot - is that true? If so I have to change a few quotes I have in play as they will need to get mSATA SSDs instead. On Aug 27, 2014, at 9:20, Jim Thompson j...@smallworks.com wrote: The SD (SDHC describes some cards which work in the slot) card slot is a “base feature”. If people choose to fit a m-SATA drive, then they can. Or they can use the SD card socket. It’s not like we’re going to de-solder the SD card socket if it’s not going to be used. Neither are we going to carry two different SKUs (one with, one without). Jim On Aug 27, 2014, at 7:57 AM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: Why not answer the question? On Aug 27, 2014, at 7:56, Jim Thompson j...@netgate.com wrote: Ryan, Don't troll. On Aug 27, 2014, at 7:33 AM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: Wait, so the SDHC slot on this board is simply for show? On Aug 26, 2014, at 13:56, Sergii Cherkashyn ser...@accurategroup.com wrote: Thank you Espen, Squid is for filtering purpose only, not to save bandwidth. On Netgate they have only this SSD as an option. But I’ll keep your advice in mind. Best regards, Sergii Cherkashyn Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 20:45:46 +0200 From: Espen Johansen pfse...@gmail.com To: pfSense support and discussion list@lists.pfsense.org Subject: Re: [pfSense] Netgate APU2 SSD module question Message-ID: caadq7-adzhlsv1p6rl7kwaaomaws1uqcet6fxa5ngdn8sl5...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I personally don't think you will have an issue with too many writes in a normal environment. Why squid tho? if its for filtering fine. For acceleration and 3-6 persons it will most likely not do you much good. Also check MLC vs SLC. SLC based SSD will last longer. Approximately 10 times longer. And even more with the right write leveling tech. Just my
Re: [pfSense] Netgate APU2 SSD module question
So it doesn't need to be in the description really... Yes that's what was throwing me. It implies you can only boot from SD by adding it to a USB adapter. On Aug 27, 2014, at 13:25, Espen Johansen pfse...@gmail.com wrote: If I may... I think Ryan is confused about the usb part. The SD slot is a onboard slot but its not connnected/wired to IDE/SATA bus, but rather it is connected to the USB bus just as a external usb card reader would be, but offcource its onboard and hardwired. Thus the confusion I assume. 27. aug. 2014 20:01 skrev Jim Thompson j...@netgate.com følgende: Ryan, I’m not sure what you’re asking. This thread started off with Sergii Cherkashyn asking if running on an SSD was advisable. Obviously, it works, or we wouldn’t offer it. (The thread Sergii pointed-to is from early 2011. Netgate did not ship SSDs for several years because the reliability *then* was so poor. The situation changed, and, once quality SSDs were available (*with power-fail capacitors, etc.*), we began offering same. Then you jumped in asking (is) “SDHC slot on this board is simply for show?” I honestly though you were trolling. Since there is a configuration of the APU units available for sale both at the Netgate store *and* the pfSense store (http://store.pfsense.org) that does not include a m-sata drive, how else could the system boot pfSense? Now you post on a public list, (a list about pfSense), asking me to change an unspecified page on (I assume), the Netgate site. Setting aside the whole issue of why we’re talking about this on-list, I can’t find the text that confused you. Here is what I found on the Netgate site: http://store.netgate.com/APU1C4.aspx says: Boot from SD card (connected through USB), external USB or m-SATA SSD.” http://store.netgate.com/APU1C.aspx says: Boot from SD card (connected through USB), external USB or m-SATA SSD. You may wish to note that this language exactly matches that found on the PC Engines site: Boot from SD card (connected through USB), external USB or m-SATA SSD.” ref: http://pcengines.ch/apu.htm, and http://pcengines.ch/apu1c.htm, and page 9 of the schematic for the APU (http://pcengines.ch/schema/apu1c.pdf) clearly shows that the “SD card interface” runs through a Alcore Micro AU6465 (http://www.alcormicro.com/en_content/c_product/product_01b.php?CategoryID=7IndexID=19) to USB6 on the AMD T40 SoC. If you will be so kind as to make a specific request for change of the language you found confusing, I’ll take a look at it. You might even send such a request to me in-private, so as not to further clutter the list. Right now, I can’t find a problem. JIm On Aug 27, 2014, at 9:26 AM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: Understood. Thank you for the clarification. Would it be possible to have the description updated on the sales page? It only says you can boot via SD through USB. -- Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com m. 651.373.5015 o. 612.568.2749 On Aug 27, 2014, at 9:24, Jim Thompson j...@netgate.com wrote: Yes, the system can be booted from an SD (or SDHC) card. Or from USB, or from the m-SATA. All of these require proper preparation of the requisite ‘disk’ (-like device). Jim On Aug 27, 2014, at 9:21 AM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: I understand *that* however it doesn't say on the features page it can be booted off the SD slot - is that true? If so I have to change a few quotes I have in play as they will need to get mSATA SSDs instead. On Aug 27, 2014, at 9:20, Jim Thompson j...@smallworks.com wrote: The SD (SDHC describes some cards which work in the slot) card slot is a “base feature”. If people choose to fit a m-SATA drive, then they can. Or they can use the SD card socket. It’s not like we’re going to de-solder the SD card socket if it’s not going to be used. Neither are we going to carry two different SKUs (one with, one without). Jim On Aug 27, 2014, at 7:57 AM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: Why not answer the question? On Aug 27, 2014, at 7:56, Jim Thompson j...@netgate.com wrote: Ryan, Don't troll. On Aug 27, 2014, at 7:33 AM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: Wait, so the SDHC slot on this board is simply for show? On Aug 26, 2014, at 13:56, Sergii Cherkashyn ser...@accurategroup.com wrote: Thank you Espen, Squid is for filtering purpose only, not to save bandwidth. On Netgate they have only this SSD as an option. But I’ll keep your advice in mind. Best regards, Sergii Cherkashyn Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 20:45:46 +0200 From: Espen Johansen pfse...@gmail.com To: pfSense support and discussion list@lists.pfsense.org Subject: Re: [pfSense] Netgate APU2 SSD module question Message-ID: caadq7-adzhlsv1p6rl7kwaaomaws1uqcet6fxa5ngdn8sl5...@mail.gmail.com
Re: [pfSense] Netgate APU2 SSD module question
By that logic neither is compact flash On Aug 27, 2014, at 14:25, Jim Thompson j...@smallworks.com wrote: SD cards are storage, but not “disks” nor “drives”. Beyond m-SATA, eMMC is your best option. Not only are they faster than SD cards (speeds of the larger devices rival those of traditional SSDs, as well as supporting a “TRIM”-like operation, priority interruptible READ and ERASE operations, background operations, and riding the cost-curve of cellular handsets (growing) .vs consumer point-and-shoot cameras (shrinking), etc.) (This, by the way, is a huge, huge ‘hint’.) (You may wish read between the lines.) A lot of the SLC / MLC mythos is from before the days of JEDEC standards for endurance, advanced wear-leveling algorithms, and before a lof of the firmware engineers understood concepts such as “read disturbance”, “write disturbance”, and “ECC correction thresholds”. It’s certainly not as simple as you’re making it out to be. (This, again, is the big reason that Netgate stayed out of the early fracas around SSDs.) I’m not going to depend on what someone said in the forum over 3 years ago, since it’s unlikely to apply today. Jim On Aug 27, 2014, at 1:32 PM, Espen Johansen pfse...@gmail.com wrote: For completeness sake. Just to clarify. You can get SDHC cards that are SLC based. Pretty much everything called industrial grade SD/SDHC will be a SLC SSD in SD format. Understood. Thank you for the clarification. Would it be possible to have the description updated on the sales page? It only says you can boot via SD through USB. -- Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com m. 651.373.5015 o. 612.568.2749 On Aug 27, 2014, at 9:24, Jim Thompson j...@netgate.com wrote: Yes, the system can be booted from an SD (or SDHC) card. Or from USB, or from the m-SATA. All of these require proper preparation of the requisite ‘disk’ (-like device). Jim On Aug 27, 2014, at 9:21 AM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: I understand *that* however it doesn't say on the features page it can be booted off the SD slot - is that true? If so I have to change a few quotes I have in play as they will need to get mSATA SSDs instead. On Aug 27, 2014, at 9:20, Jim Thompson j...@smallworks.com wrote: The SD (SDHC describes some cards which work in the slot) card slot is a “base feature”. If people choose to fit a m-SATA drive, then they can. Or they can use the SD card socket. It’s not like we’re going to de-solder the SD card socket if it’s not going to be used. Neither are we going to carry two different SKUs (one with, one without). Jim On Aug 27, 2014, at 7:57 AM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: Why not answer the question? On Aug 27, 2014, at 7:56, Jim Thompson j...@netgate.com wrote: Ryan, Don't troll. On Aug 27, 2014, at 7:33 AM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: Wait, so the SDHC slot on this board is simply for show? On Aug 26, 2014, at 13:56, Sergii Cherkashyn ser...@accurategroup.com wrote: Thank you Espen, Squid is for filtering purpose only, not to save bandwidth. On Netgate they have only this SSD as an option. But I’ll keep your advice in mind. Best regards, Sergii Cherkashyn Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 20:45:46 +0200 From: Espen Johansen pfse...@gmail.com To: pfSense support and discussion list@lists.pfsense.org Subject: Re: [pfSense] Netgate APU2 SSD module question Message-ID: caadq7-adzhlsv1p6rl7kwaaomaws1uqcet6fxa5ngdn8sl5...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I personally don't think you will have an issue with too many writes in a normal environment. Why squid tho? if its for filtering fine. For acceleration and 3-6 persons it will most likely not do you much good. Also check MLC vs SLC. SLC based SSD will last longer. Approximately 10 times longer. And even more with the right write leveling tech. Just my 2 cents. ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman
Re: [pfSense] Netgate APU2 SSD module question
Wait, so the SDHC slot on this board is simply for show? On Aug 26, 2014, at 13:56, Sergii Cherkashyn ser...@accurategroup.com wrote: Thank you Espen, Squid is for filtering purpose only, not to save bandwidth. On Netgate they have only this SSD as an option. But I’ll keep your advice in mind. Best regards, Sergii Cherkashyn Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 20:45:46 +0200 From: Espen Johansen pfse...@gmail.com To: pfSense support and discussion list@lists.pfsense.org Subject: Re: [pfSense] Netgate APU2 SSD module question Message-ID: caadq7-adzhlsv1p6rl7kwaaomaws1uqcet6fxa5ngdn8sl5...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I personally don't think you will have an issue with too many writes in a normal environment. Why squid tho? if its for filtering fine. For acceleration and 3-6 persons it will most likely not do you much good. Also check MLC vs SLC. SLC based SSD will last longer. Approximately 10 times longer. And even more with the right write leveling tech. Just my 2 cents. ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Re: [pfSense] Netgate APU2 SSD module question
Ryan, Don't troll. On Aug 27, 2014, at 7:33 AM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: Wait, so the SDHC slot on this board is simply for show? On Aug 26, 2014, at 13:56, Sergii Cherkashyn ser...@accurategroup.com wrote: Thank you Espen, Squid is for filtering purpose only, not to save bandwidth. On Netgate they have only this SSD as an option. But I’ll keep your advice in mind. Best regards, Sergii Cherkashyn Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 20:45:46 +0200 From: Espen Johansen pfse...@gmail.com To: pfSense support and discussion list@lists.pfsense.org Subject: Re: [pfSense] Netgate APU2 SSD module question Message-ID: caadq7-adzhlsv1p6rl7kwaaomaws1uqcet6fxa5ngdn8sl5...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I personally don't think you will have an issue with too many writes in a normal environment. Why squid tho? if its for filtering fine. For acceleration and 3-6 persons it will most likely not do you much good. Also check MLC vs SLC. SLC based SSD will last longer. Approximately 10 times longer. And even more with the right write leveling tech. Just my 2 cents. ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Re: [pfSense] Netgate APU2 SSD module question
Why not answer the question? On Aug 27, 2014, at 7:56, Jim Thompson j...@netgate.com wrote: Ryan, Don't troll. On Aug 27, 2014, at 7:33 AM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: Wait, so the SDHC slot on this board is simply for show? On Aug 26, 2014, at 13:56, Sergii Cherkashyn ser...@accurategroup.com wrote: Thank you Espen, Squid is for filtering purpose only, not to save bandwidth. On Netgate they have only this SSD as an option. But I’ll keep your advice in mind. Best regards, Sergii Cherkashyn Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 20:45:46 +0200 From: Espen Johansen pfse...@gmail.com To: pfSense support and discussion list@lists.pfsense.org Subject: Re: [pfSense] Netgate APU2 SSD module question Message-ID: caadq7-adzhlsv1p6rl7kwaaomaws1uqcet6fxa5ngdn8sl5...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I personally don't think you will have an issue with too many writes in a normal environment. Why squid tho? if its for filtering fine. For acceleration and 3-6 persons it will most likely not do you much good. Also check MLC vs SLC. SLC based SSD will last longer. Approximately 10 times longer. And even more with the right write leveling tech. Just my 2 cents. ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Re: [pfSense] Netgate APU2 SSD module question
The SD (SDHC describes some cards which work in the slot) card slot is a “base feature”. If people choose to fit a m-SATA drive, then they can. Or they can use the SD card socket. It’s not like we’re going to de-solder the SD card socket if it’s not going to be used. Neither are we going to carry two different SKUs (one with, one without). Jim On Aug 27, 2014, at 7:57 AM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: Why not answer the question? On Aug 27, 2014, at 7:56, Jim Thompson j...@netgate.com mailto:j...@netgate.com wrote: Ryan, Don't troll. On Aug 27, 2014, at 7:33 AM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com mailto:ryanjc...@me.com wrote: Wait, so the SDHC slot on this board is simply for show? On Aug 26, 2014, at 13:56, Sergii Cherkashyn ser...@accurategroup.com mailto:ser...@accurategroup.com wrote: Thank you Espen, Squid is for filtering purpose only, not to save bandwidth. On Netgate they have only this SSD as an option. But I’ll keep your advice in mind. Best regards, Sergii Cherkashyn Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 20:45:46 +0200 From: Espen Johansen pfse...@gmail.com mailto:pfse...@gmail.com To: pfSense support and discussion list@lists.pfsense.org mailto:list@lists.pfsense.org Subject: Re: [pfSense] Netgate APU2 SSD module question Message-ID: caadq7-adzhlsv1p6rl7kwaaomaws1uqcet6fxa5ngdn8sl5...@mail.gmail.com mailto:caadq7-adzhlsv1p6rl7kwaaomaws1uqcet6fxa5ngdn8sl5...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I personally don't think you will have an issue with too many writes in a normal environment. Why squid tho? if its for filtering fine. For acceleration and 3-6 persons it will most likely not do you much good. Also check MLC vs SLC. SLC based SSD will last longer. Approximately 10 times longer. And even more with the right write leveling tech. Just my 2 cents. ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org mailto:List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org mailto:List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org mailto:List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Re: [pfSense] Netgate APU2 SSD module question
I understand *that* however it doesn't say on the features page it can be booted off the SD slot - is that true? If so I have to change a few quotes I have in play as they will need to get mSATA SSDs instead. On Aug 27, 2014, at 9:20, Jim Thompson j...@smallworks.com wrote: The SD (SDHC describes some cards which work in the slot) card slot is a “base feature”. If people choose to fit a m-SATA drive, then they can. Or they can use the SD card socket. It’s not like we’re going to de-solder the SD card socket if it’s not going to be used. Neither are we going to carry two different SKUs (one with, one without). Jim On Aug 27, 2014, at 7:57 AM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: Why not answer the question? On Aug 27, 2014, at 7:56, Jim Thompson j...@netgate.com wrote: Ryan, Don't troll. On Aug 27, 2014, at 7:33 AM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: Wait, so the SDHC slot on this board is simply for show? On Aug 26, 2014, at 13:56, Sergii Cherkashyn ser...@accurategroup.com wrote: Thank you Espen, Squid is for filtering purpose only, not to save bandwidth. On Netgate they have only this SSD as an option. But I’ll keep your advice in mind. Best regards, Sergii Cherkashyn Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 20:45:46 +0200 From: Espen Johansen pfse...@gmail.com To: pfSense support and discussion list@lists.pfsense.org Subject: Re: [pfSense] Netgate APU2 SSD module question Message-ID: caadq7-adzhlsv1p6rl7kwaaomaws1uqcet6fxa5ngdn8sl5...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I personally don't think you will have an issue with too many writes in a normal environment. Why squid tho? if its for filtering fine. For acceleration and 3-6 persons it will most likely not do you much good. Also check MLC vs SLC. SLC based SSD will last longer. Approximately 10 times longer. And even more with the right write leveling tech. Just my 2 cents. ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Re: [pfSense] Netgate APU2 SSD module question
Yes, the system can be booted from an SD (or SDHC) card. Or from USB, or from the m-SATA. All of these require proper preparation of the requisite ‘disk’ (-like device). Jim On Aug 27, 2014, at 9:21 AM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: I understand *that* however it doesn't say on the features page it can be booted off the SD slot - is that true? If so I have to change a few quotes I have in play as they will need to get mSATA SSDs instead. On Aug 27, 2014, at 9:20, Jim Thompson j...@smallworks.com mailto:j...@smallworks.com wrote: The SD (SDHC describes some cards which work in the slot) card slot is a “base feature”. If people choose to fit a m-SATA drive, then they can. Or they can use the SD card socket. It’s not like we’re going to de-solder the SD card socket if it’s not going to be used. Neither are we going to carry two different SKUs (one with, one without). Jim On Aug 27, 2014, at 7:57 AM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com mailto:ryanjc...@me.com wrote: Why not answer the question? On Aug 27, 2014, at 7:56, Jim Thompson j...@netgate.com mailto:j...@netgate.com wrote: Ryan, Don't troll. On Aug 27, 2014, at 7:33 AM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com mailto:ryanjc...@me.com wrote: Wait, so the SDHC slot on this board is simply for show? On Aug 26, 2014, at 13:56, Sergii Cherkashyn ser...@accurategroup.com mailto:ser...@accurategroup.com wrote: Thank you Espen, Squid is for filtering purpose only, not to save bandwidth. On Netgate they have only this SSD as an option. But I’ll keep your advice in mind. Best regards, Sergii Cherkashyn Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 20:45:46 +0200 From: Espen Johansen pfse...@gmail.com mailto:pfse...@gmail.com To: pfSense support and discussion list@lists.pfsense.org mailto:list@lists.pfsense.org Subject: Re: [pfSense] Netgate APU2 SSD module question Message-ID: caadq7-adzhlsv1p6rl7kwaaomaws1uqcet6fxa5ngdn8sl5...@mail.gmail.com mailto:caadq7-adzhlsv1p6rl7kwaaomaws1uqcet6fxa5ngdn8sl5...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I personally don't think you will have an issue with too many writes in a normal environment. Why squid tho? if its for filtering fine. For acceleration and 3-6 persons it will most likely not do you much good. Also check MLC vs SLC. SLC based SSD will last longer. Approximately 10 times longer. And even more with the right write leveling tech. Just my 2 cents. ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org mailto:List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org mailto:List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org mailto:List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org mailto:List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org mailto:List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Re: [pfSense] Netgate APU2 SSD module question
Understood. Thank you for the clarification. Would it be possible to have the description updated on the sales page? It only says you can boot via SD through USB. -- Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com m. 651.373.5015 o. 612.568.2749 On Aug 27, 2014, at 9:24, Jim Thompson j...@netgate.com wrote: Yes, the system can be booted from an SD (or SDHC) card. Or from USB, or from the m-SATA. All of these require proper preparation of the requisite ‘disk’ (-like device). Jim On Aug 27, 2014, at 9:21 AM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: I understand *that* however it doesn't say on the features page it can be booted off the SD slot - is that true? If so I have to change a few quotes I have in play as they will need to get mSATA SSDs instead. On Aug 27, 2014, at 9:20, Jim Thompson j...@smallworks.com wrote: The SD (SDHC describes some cards which work in the slot) card slot is a “base feature”. If people choose to fit a m-SATA drive, then they can. Or they can use the SD card socket. It’s not like we’re going to de-solder the SD card socket if it’s not going to be used. Neither are we going to carry two different SKUs (one with, one without). Jim On Aug 27, 2014, at 7:57 AM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: Why not answer the question? On Aug 27, 2014, at 7:56, Jim Thompson j...@netgate.com wrote: Ryan, Don't troll. On Aug 27, 2014, at 7:33 AM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: Wait, so the SDHC slot on this board is simply for show? On Aug 26, 2014, at 13:56, Sergii Cherkashyn ser...@accurategroup.com wrote: Thank you Espen, Squid is for filtering purpose only, not to save bandwidth. On Netgate they have only this SSD as an option. But I’ll keep your advice in mind. Best regards, Sergii Cherkashyn Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 20:45:46 +0200 From: Espen Johansen pfse...@gmail.com To: pfSense support and discussion list@lists.pfsense.org Subject: Re: [pfSense] Netgate APU2 SSD module question Message-ID: caadq7-adzhlsv1p6rl7kwaaomaws1uqcet6fxa5ngdn8sl5...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I personally don't think you will have an issue with too many writes in a normal environment. Why squid tho? if its for filtering fine. For acceleration and 3-6 persons it will most likely not do you much good. Also check MLC vs SLC. SLC based SSD will last longer. Approximately 10 times longer. And even more with the right write leveling tech. Just my 2 cents. ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Re: [pfSense] Netgate APU2 SSD module question
That's how the SD card is connected. -- Jim On Aug 27, 2014, at 9:26, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: Understood. Thank you for the clarification. Would it be possible to have the description updated on the sales page? It only says you can boot via SD through USB. -- Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com m. 651.373.5015 o. 612.568.2749 On Aug 27, 2014, at 9:24, Jim Thompson j...@netgate.com wrote: Yes, the system can be booted from an SD (or SDHC) card. Or from USB, or from the m-SATA. All of these require proper preparation of the requisite ‘disk’ (-like device). Jim On Aug 27, 2014, at 9:21 AM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: I understand *that* however it doesn't say on the features page it can be booted off the SD slot - is that true? If so I have to change a few quotes I have in play as they will need to get mSATA SSDs instead. On Aug 27, 2014, at 9:20, Jim Thompson j...@smallworks.com wrote: The SD (SDHC describes some cards which work in the slot) card slot is a “base feature”. If people choose to fit a m-SATA drive, then they can. Or they can use the SD card socket. It’s not like we’re going to de-solder the SD card socket if it’s not going to be used. Neither are we going to carry two different SKUs (one with, one without). Jim On Aug 27, 2014, at 7:57 AM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: Why not answer the question? On Aug 27, 2014, at 7:56, Jim Thompson j...@netgate.com wrote: Ryan, Don't troll. On Aug 27, 2014, at 7:33 AM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: Wait, so the SDHC slot on this board is simply for show? On Aug 26, 2014, at 13:56, Sergii Cherkashyn ser...@accurategroup.com wrote: Thank you Espen, Squid is for filtering purpose only, not to save bandwidth. On Netgate they have only this SSD as an option. But I’ll keep your advice in mind. Best regards, Sergii Cherkashyn Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 20:45:46 +0200 From: Espen Johansen pfse...@gmail.com To: pfSense support and discussion list@lists.pfsense.org Subject: Re: [pfSense] Netgate APU2 SSD module question Message-ID: caadq7-adzhlsv1p6rl7kwaaomaws1uqcet6fxa5ngdn8sl5...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I personally don't think you will have an issue with too many writes in a normal environment. Why squid tho? if its for filtering fine. For acceleration and 3-6 persons it will most likely not do you much good. Also check MLC vs SLC. SLC based SSD will last longer. Approximately 10 times longer. And even more with the right write leveling tech. Just my 2 cents. ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Re: [pfSense] Netgate APU2 SSD module question
Ryan, I’m not sure what you’re asking. This thread started off with Sergii Cherkashyn asking if running on an SSD was advisable. Obviously, it works, or we wouldn’t offer it. (The thread Sergii pointed-to is from early 2011. Netgate did not ship SSDs for several years because the reliability *then* was so poor. The situation changed, and, once quality SSDs were available (*with power-fail capacitors, etc.*), we began offering same. Then you jumped in asking (is) “SDHC slot on this board is simply for show?” I honestly though you were trolling. Since there is a configuration of the APU units available for sale both at the Netgate store *and* the pfSense store (http://store.pfsense.org) that does not include a m-sata drive, how else could the system boot pfSense? Now you post on a public list, (a list about pfSense), asking me to change an unspecified page on (I assume), the Netgate site. Setting aside the whole issue of why we’re talking about this on-list, I can’t find the text that confused you. Here is what I found on the Netgate site: http://store.netgate.com/APU1C4.aspx says: Boot from SD card (connected through USB), external USB or m-SATA SSD.” http://store.netgate.com/APU1C.aspx says: Boot from SD card (connected through USB), external USB or m-SATA SSD. You may wish to note that this language exactly matches that found on the PC Engines site: Boot from SD card (connected through USB), external USB or m-SATA SSD.” ref: http://pcengines.ch/apu.htm, and http://pcengines.ch/apu1c.htm, and page 9 of the schematic for the APU (http://pcengines.ch/schema/apu1c.pdf) clearly shows that the “SD card interface” runs through a Alcore Micro AU6465 (http://www.alcormicro.com/en_content/c_product/product_01b.php?CategoryID=7IndexID=19) to USB6 on the AMD T40 SoC. If you will be so kind as to make a specific request for change of the language you found confusing, I’ll take a look at it. You might even send such a request to me in-private, so as not to further clutter the list. Right now, I can’t find a problem. JIm On Aug 27, 2014, at 9:26 AM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: Understood. Thank you for the clarification. Would it be possible to have the description updated on the sales page? It only says you can boot via SD through USB. -- Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com m. 651.373.5015 o. 612.568.2749 On Aug 27, 2014, at 9:24, Jim Thompson j...@netgate.com wrote: Yes, the system can be booted from an SD (or SDHC) card. Or from USB, or from the m-SATA. All of these require proper preparation of the requisite ‘disk’ (-like device). Jim On Aug 27, 2014, at 9:21 AM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: I understand *that* however it doesn't say on the features page it can be booted off the SD slot - is that true? If so I have to change a few quotes I have in play as they will need to get mSATA SSDs instead. On Aug 27, 2014, at 9:20, Jim Thompson j...@smallworks.com wrote: The SD (SDHC describes some cards which work in the slot) card slot is a “base feature”. If people choose to fit a m-SATA drive, then they can. Or they can use the SD card socket. It’s not like we’re going to de-solder the SD card socket if it’s not going to be used. Neither are we going to carry two different SKUs (one with, one without). Jim On Aug 27, 2014, at 7:57 AM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: Why not answer the question? On Aug 27, 2014, at 7:56, Jim Thompson j...@netgate.com wrote: Ryan, Don't troll. On Aug 27, 2014, at 7:33 AM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: Wait, so the SDHC slot on this board is simply for show? On Aug 26, 2014, at 13:56, Sergii Cherkashyn ser...@accurategroup.com wrote: Thank you Espen, Squid is for filtering purpose only, not to save bandwidth. On Netgate they have only this SSD as an option. But I’ll keep your advice in mind. Best regards, Sergii Cherkashyn Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 20:45:46 +0200 From: Espen Johansen pfse...@gmail.com To: pfSense support and discussion list@lists.pfsense.org Subject: Re: [pfSense] Netgate APU2 SSD module question Message-ID: caadq7-adzhlsv1p6rl7kwaaomaws1uqcet6fxa5ngdn8sl5...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I personally don't think you will have an issue with too many writes in a normal environment. Why squid tho? if its for filtering fine. For acceleration and 3-6 persons it will most likely not do you much good. Also check MLC vs SLC. SLC based SSD will last longer. Approximately 10 times longer. And even more with the right write leveling tech. Just my 2 cents. ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman
Re: [pfSense] Netgate APU2 SSD module question
If I may... I think Ryan is confused about the usb part. The SD slot is a onboard slot but its not connnected/wired to IDE/SATA bus, but rather it is connected to the USB bus just as a external usb card reader would be, but offcource its onboard and hardwired. Thus the confusion I assume. 27. aug. 2014 20:01 skrev Jim Thompson j...@netgate.com følgende: Ryan, I’m not sure what you’re asking. This thread started off with Sergii Cherkashyn asking if running on an SSD was advisable. Obviously, it works, or we wouldn’t offer it. (The thread Sergii pointed-to is from early 2011. Netgate did not ship SSDs for several years because the reliability *then* was so poor. The situation changed, and, once quality SSDs were available (*with power-fail capacitors, etc.*), we began offering same. Then you jumped in asking (is) “SDHC slot on this board is simply for show?” I honestly though you were trolling. Since there is a configuration of the APU units available for sale both at the Netgate store *and* the pfSense store (http://store.pfsense.org) that does not include a m-sata drive, how else could the system boot pfSense? Now you post on a public list, (a list about pfSense), asking me to change an unspecified page on (I assume), the Netgate site. Setting aside the whole issue of why we’re talking about this on-list, I can’t find the text that confused you. Here is what I found on the Netgate site: http://store.netgate.com/APU1C4.aspx says: Boot from SD card (connected through USB), external USB or m-SATA SSD.” http://store.netgate.com/APU1C.aspx says: Boot from SD card (connected through USB), external USB or m-SATA SSD. You may wish to note that this language exactly matches that found on the PC Engines site: Boot from SD card (connected through USB), external USB or m-SATA SSD.” ref: http://pcengines.ch/apu.htm, and http://pcengines.ch/apu1c.htm, and page 9 of the schematic for the APU ( http://pcengines.ch/schema/apu1c.pdf) clearly shows that the “SD card interface” runs through a Alcore Micro AU6465 ( http://www.alcormicro.com/en_content/c_product/product_01b.php?CategoryID=7IndexID=19) to USB6 on the AMD T40 SoC. If you will be so kind as to make a specific request for change of the language you found confusing, I’ll take a look at it. You might even send such a request to me in-private, so as not to further clutter the list. Right now, I can’t find a problem. JIm On Aug 27, 2014, at 9:26 AM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: Understood. Thank you for the clarification. Would it be possible to have the description updated on the sales page? It only says you can boot via SD through USB. -- Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com m. 651.373.5015 o. 612.568.2749 On Aug 27, 2014, at 9:24, Jim Thompson j...@netgate.com wrote: Yes, the system can be booted from an SD (or SDHC) card. Or from USB, or from the m-SATA. All of these require proper preparation of the requisite ‘disk’ (-like device). Jim On Aug 27, 2014, at 9:21 AM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: I understand *that* however it doesn't say on the features page it can be booted off the SD slot - is that true? If so I have to change a few quotes I have in play as they will need to get mSATA SSDs instead. On Aug 27, 2014, at 9:20, Jim Thompson j...@smallworks.com wrote: The SD (SDHC describes some cards which work in the slot) card slot is a “base feature”. If people choose to fit a m-SATA drive, then they can. Or they can use the SD card socket. It’s not like we’re going to de-solder the SD card socket if it’s not going to be used. Neither are we going to carry two different SKUs (one with, one without). Jim On Aug 27, 2014, at 7:57 AM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: Why not answer the question? On Aug 27, 2014, at 7:56, Jim Thompson j...@netgate.com wrote: Ryan, Don't troll. On Aug 27, 2014, at 7:33 AM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: Wait, so the SDHC slot on this board is simply for show? On Aug 26, 2014, at 13:56, Sergii Cherkashyn ser...@accurategroup.com wrote: Thank you Espen, Squid is for filtering purpose only, not to save bandwidth. On Netgate they have only this SSD as an option. But I’ll keep your advice in mind. Best regards, Sergii Cherkashyn Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 20:45:46 +0200 From: Espen Johansen pfse...@gmail.com To: pfSense support and discussion list@lists.pfsense.org Subject: Re: [pfSense] Netgate APU2 SSD module question Message-ID: caadq7-adzhlsv1p6rl7kwaaomaws1uqcet6fxa5ngdn8sl5...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I personally don't think you will have an issue with too many writes in a normal environment. Why squid tho? if its for filtering fine. For acceleration and 3-6 persons it will most likely not do you much good. Also check MLC vs SLC. SLC based
Re: [pfSense] Netgate APU2 SSD module question
Maybe just write (hardwired to USB6)? 27. aug. 2014 20:01 skrev Jim Thompson j...@netgate.com følgende: Ryan, I’m not sure what you’re asking. This thread started off with Sergii Cherkashyn asking if running on an SSD was advisable. Obviously, it works, or we wouldn’t offer it. (The thread Sergii pointed-to is from early 2011. Netgate did not ship SSDs for several years because the reliability *then* was so poor. The situation changed, and, once quality SSDs were available (*with power-fail capacitors, etc.*), we began offering same. Then you jumped in asking (is) “SDHC slot on this board is simply for show?” I honestly though you were trolling. Since there is a configuration of the APU units available for sale both at the Netgate store *and* the pfSense store (http://store.pfsense.org) that does not include a m-sata drive, how else could the system boot pfSense? Now you post on a public list, (a list about pfSense), asking me to change an unspecified page on (I assume), the Netgate site. Setting aside the whole issue of why we’re talking about this on-list, I can’t find the text that confused you. Here is what I found on the Netgate site: http://store.netgate.com/APU1C4.aspx says: Boot from SD card (connected through USB), external USB or m-SATA SSD.” http://store.netgate.com/APU1C.aspx says: Boot from SD card (connected through USB), external USB or m-SATA SSD. You may wish to note that this language exactly matches that found on the PC Engines site: Boot from SD card (connected through USB), external USB or m-SATA SSD.” ref: http://pcengines.ch/apu.htm, and http://pcengines.ch/apu1c.htm, and page 9 of the schematic for the APU ( http://pcengines.ch/schema/apu1c.pdf) clearly shows that the “SD card interface” runs through a Alcore Micro AU6465 ( http://www.alcormicro.com/en_content/c_product/product_01b.php?CategoryID=7IndexID=19) to USB6 on the AMD T40 SoC. If you will be so kind as to make a specific request for change of the language you found confusing, I’ll take a look at it. You might even send such a request to me in-private, so as not to further clutter the list. Right now, I can’t find a problem. JIm On Aug 27, 2014, at 9:26 AM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: Understood. Thank you for the clarification. Would it be possible to have the description updated on the sales page? It only says you can boot via SD through USB. -- Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com m. 651.373.5015 o. 612.568.2749 On Aug 27, 2014, at 9:24, Jim Thompson j...@netgate.com wrote: Yes, the system can be booted from an SD (or SDHC) card. Or from USB, or from the m-SATA. All of these require proper preparation of the requisite ‘disk’ (-like device). Jim On Aug 27, 2014, at 9:21 AM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: I understand *that* however it doesn't say on the features page it can be booted off the SD slot - is that true? If so I have to change a few quotes I have in play as they will need to get mSATA SSDs instead. On Aug 27, 2014, at 9:20, Jim Thompson j...@smallworks.com wrote: The SD (SDHC describes some cards which work in the slot) card slot is a “base feature”. If people choose to fit a m-SATA drive, then they can. Or they can use the SD card socket. It’s not like we’re going to de-solder the SD card socket if it’s not going to be used. Neither are we going to carry two different SKUs (one with, one without). Jim On Aug 27, 2014, at 7:57 AM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: Why not answer the question? On Aug 27, 2014, at 7:56, Jim Thompson j...@netgate.com wrote: Ryan, Don't troll. On Aug 27, 2014, at 7:33 AM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: Wait, so the SDHC slot on this board is simply for show? On Aug 26, 2014, at 13:56, Sergii Cherkashyn ser...@accurategroup.com wrote: Thank you Espen, Squid is for filtering purpose only, not to save bandwidth. On Netgate they have only this SSD as an option. But I’ll keep your advice in mind. Best regards, Sergii Cherkashyn Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 20:45:46 +0200 From: Espen Johansen pfse...@gmail.com To: pfSense support and discussion list@lists.pfsense.org Subject: Re: [pfSense] Netgate APU2 SSD module question Message-ID: caadq7-adzhlsv1p6rl7kwaaomaws1uqcet6fxa5ngdn8sl5...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I personally don't think you will have an issue with too many writes in a normal environment. Why squid tho? if its for filtering fine. For acceleration and 3-6 persons it will most likely not do you much good. Also check MLC vs SLC. SLC based SSD will last longer. Approximately 10 times longer. And even more with the right write leveling tech. Just my 2 cents. ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org
Re: [pfSense] Netgate APU2 SSD module question
For completeness sake. Just to clarify. You can get SDHC cards that are SLC based. Pretty much everything called industrial grade SD/SDHC will be a SLC SSD in SD format. Understood. Thank you for the clarification. Would it be possible to have the description updated on the sales page? It only says you can boot via SD through USB. -- Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com m. 651.373.5015 o. 612.568.2749 On Aug 27, 2014, at 9:24, Jim Thompson j...@netgate.com wrote: Yes, the system can be booted from an SD (or SDHC) card. Or from USB, or from the m-SATA. All of these require proper preparation of the requisite ‘disk’ (-like device). Jim On Aug 27, 2014, at 9:21 AM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: I understand *that* however it doesn't say on the features page it can be booted off the SD slot - is that true? If so I have to change a few quotes I have in play as they will need to get mSATA SSDs instead. On Aug 27, 2014, at 9:20, Jim Thompson j...@smallworks.com wrote: The SD (SDHC describes some cards which work in the slot) card slot is a “base feature”. If people choose to fit a m-SATA drive, then they can. Or they can use the SD card socket. It’s not like we’re going to de-solder the SD card socket if it’s not going to be used. Neither are we going to carry two different SKUs (one with, one without). Jim On Aug 27, 2014, at 7:57 AM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: Why not answer the question? On Aug 27, 2014, at 7:56, Jim Thompson j...@netgate.com wrote: Ryan, Don't troll. On Aug 27, 2014, at 7:33 AM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com wrote: Wait, so the SDHC slot on this board is simply for show? On Aug 26, 2014, at 13:56, Sergii Cherkashyn ser...@accurategroup.com wrote: Thank you Espen, Squid is for filtering purpose only, not to save bandwidth. On Netgate they have only this SSD as an option. But I’ll keep your advice in mind. Best regards*,* *Sergii Cherkashyn* Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 20:45:46 +0200 From: Espen Johansen pfse...@gmail.com To: pfSense support and discussion list@lists.pfsense.org Subject: Re: [pfSense] Netgate APU2 SSD module question Message-ID: caadq7-adzhlsv1p6rl7kwaaomaws1uqcet6fxa5ngdn8sl5...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I personally don't think you will have an issue with too many writes in a normal environment. Why squid tho? if its for filtering fine. For acceleration and 3-6 persons it will most likely not do you much good. Also check MLC vs SLC. SLC based SSD will last longer. Approximately 10 times longer. And even more with the right write leveling tech. Just my 2 cents. ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Re: [pfSense] Netgate APU2 SSD module question
SD cards are storage, but not “disks” nor “drives”. Beyond m-SATA, eMMC is your best option. Not only are they faster than SD cards (speeds of the larger devices rival those of traditional SSDs, as well as supporting a “TRIM”-like operation, priority interruptible READ and ERASE operations, background operations, and riding the cost-curve of cellular handsets (growing) .vs consumer point-and-shoot cameras (shrinking), etc.) (This, by the way, is a huge, huge ‘hint’.) (You may wish read between the lines.) A lot of the SLC / MLC mythos is from before the days of JEDEC standards for endurance, advanced wear-leveling algorithms, and before a lof of the firmware engineers understood concepts such as “read disturbance”, “write disturbance”, and “ECC correction thresholds”. It’s certainly not as simple as you’re making it out to be. (This, again, is the big reason that Netgate stayed out of the early fracas around SSDs.) I’m not going to depend on what someone said in the forum over 3 years ago, since it’s unlikely to apply today. Jim On Aug 27, 2014, at 1:32 PM, Espen Johansen pfse...@gmail.com wrote: For completeness sake. Just to clarify. You can get SDHC cards that are SLC based. Pretty much everything called industrial grade SD/SDHC will be a SLC SSD in SD format. Understood. Thank you for the clarification. Would it be possible to have the description updated on the sales page? It only says you can boot via SD through USB. -- Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com mailto:ryanjc...@me.com m. 651.373.5015 tel:651.373.5015 o. 612.568.2749 tel:612.568.2749 On Aug 27, 2014, at 9:24, Jim Thompson j...@netgate.com mailto:j...@netgate.com wrote: Yes, the system can be booted from an SD (or SDHC) card. Or from USB, or from the m-SATA. All of these require proper preparation of the requisite ‘disk’ (-like device). Jim On Aug 27, 2014, at 9:21 AM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com mailto:ryanjc...@me.com wrote: I understand *that* however it doesn't say on the features page it can be booted off the SD slot - is that true? If so I have to change a few quotes I have in play as they will need to get mSATA SSDs instead. On Aug 27, 2014, at 9:20, Jim Thompson j...@smallworks.com mailto:j...@smallworks.com wrote: The SD (SDHC describes some cards which work in the slot) card slot is a “base feature”. If people choose to fit a m-SATA drive, then they can. Or they can use the SD card socket. It’s not like we’re going to de-solder the SD card socket if it’s not going to be used. Neither are we going to carry two different SKUs (one with, one without). Jim On Aug 27, 2014, at 7:57 AM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com mailto:ryanjc...@me.com wrote: Why not answer the question? On Aug 27, 2014, at 7:56, Jim Thompson j...@netgate.com mailto:j...@netgate.com wrote: Ryan, Don't troll. On Aug 27, 2014, at 7:33 AM, Ryan Coleman ryanjc...@me.com mailto:ryanjc...@me.com wrote: Wait, so the SDHC slot on this board is simply for show? On Aug 26, 2014, at 13:56, Sergii Cherkashyn ser...@accurategroup.com mailto:ser...@accurategroup.com wrote: Thank you Espen, Squid is for filtering purpose only, not to save bandwidth. On Netgate they have only this SSD as an option. But I’ll keep your advice in mind. Best regards, Sergii Cherkashyn Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 20:45:46 +0200 From: Espen Johansen pfse...@gmail.com mailto:pfse...@gmail.com To: pfSense support and discussion list@lists.pfsense.org mailto:list@lists.pfsense.org Subject: Re: [pfSense] Netgate APU2 SSD module question Message-ID: caadq7-adzhlsv1p6rl7kwaaomaws1uqcet6fxa5ngdn8sl5...@mail.gmail.com mailto:caadq7-adzhlsv1p6rl7kwaaomaws1uqcet6fxa5ngdn8sl5...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I personally don't think you will have an issue with too many writes in a normal environment. Why squid tho? if its for filtering fine. For acceleration and 3-6 persons it will most likely not do you much good. Also check MLC vs SLC. SLC based SSD will last longer. Approximately 10 times longer. And even more with the right write leveling tech. Just my 2 cents. ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org mailto:List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org mailto:List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org mailto:List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list___ List mailing list List
Re: [pfSense] Netgate APU2 SSD module question
Thank you Espen, Squid is for filtering purpose only, not to save bandwidth. On Netgate they have only this SSD as an option. But I'll keep your advice in mind. Best regards, Sergii Cherkashyn Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 20:45:46 +0200 From: Espen Johansen pfse...@gmail.commailto:pfse...@gmail.com To: pfSense support and discussion list@lists.pfsense.orgmailto:list@lists.pfsense.org Subject: Re: [pfSense] Netgate APU2 SSD module question Message-ID: caadq7-adzhlsv1p6rl7kwaaomaws1uqcet6fxa5ngdn8sl5...@mail.gmail.commailto:caadq7-adzhlsv1p6rl7kwaaomaws1uqcet6fxa5ngdn8sl5...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I personally don't think you will have an issue with too many writes in a normal environment. Why squid tho? if its for filtering fine. For acceleration and 3-6 persons it will most likely not do you much good. Also check MLC vs SLC. SLC based SSD will last longer. Approximately 10 times longer. And even more with the right write leveling tech. Just my 2 cents. ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
Re: [pfSense] Netgate APU2 SSD module question
I personally don't think you will have an issue with too many writes in a normal environment. Why squid tho? if its for filtering fine. For acceleration and 3-6 persons it will most likely not do you much good. Also check MLC vs SLC. SLC based SSD will last longer. Approximately 10 times longer. And even more with the right write leveling tech. Just my 2 cents. 25. aug. 2014 19:32 skrev Sergii Cherkashyn ser...@accurategroup.com følgende: I’m planning to purchase the Netgate APU2 with 16 GB mSATA SSD module for small office (3-6 persons). planning to install the Squid package on the firewall. is this kind of package that is still not recommended to run on the firewall with SSD because of intensive writes to the hard drive that dramatically reduces the life of SSD hard drive? Or the following forum discussion is slightly outdated and quality if SSD has improved? Though there are many comments saying that SSD works great for them for many years. https://forum.pfsense.org/index.php?topic=34381.0 Best regards*,* *Sergii Cherkashyn * ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list ___ List mailing list List@lists.pfsense.org https://lists.pfsense.org/mailman/listinfo/list
