RE: [WSG] Dealing with IE and tables in CSS

Oi vey...it's actually been a litte while since I've had to tackle a table inside of a div (percentage width) in IE. All the various IE's hate what I'm trying to do here. Are there any new techniques for pulling this off? http://www.vaska.com/a/test/ All I see is a paragraph inside

Re: [WSG] Bad Design Principles

Sorry Steve, I wasn't intentionally referring your point, I was just dismissing any general idea that it was bad design visual design. I need to be more discriminatory with my use of quotation marks next time. Nick Just by way of clarification, when I said it _looks_ bad I wasn't

Re: [WSG] Dealing with IE and tables in CSS

Yes...I took it down. Solved it by avoiding table use completely (even though I'm technically using tabular data). v On 06 Oct 2006, at 08:25, Kepler Gelotte wrote: All I see is a paragraph inside the body in the above example and the text color is the same as the background. Am I

Re: [WSG] Article: creating drop cap on the fly

At 10/4/2006 08:49 AM, Thierry Koblentz wrote: I'd appreciate any comment that would help me improve this article: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/the_perfect_image_replacement_technique.asp and http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/the_perfect_drop_cap.asp Thierry, While of course I agree

Re: [WSG] Article: creating drop cap on the fly

On 6 Oct 2006, at 10:19, Paul Novitski wrote: At 10/4/2006 08:49 AM, Thierry Koblentz wrote: I'd appreciate any comment that would help me improve this article: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/the_perfect_image_replacement_technique.asp and

Re: [WSG] Article: creating drop cap on the fly

I'd appreciate any comment that would help me improve this article: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/the_perfect_image_replacement_technique.asp and http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/the_perfect_drop_cap.asp Thierry, The most obvious disadvantage of using JavaScript to modify markup is the

Re: [WSG] Apply style to li only

thanx On 10/5/06, Lachlan Hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Taco Fleur wrote: Is there a way to apply a style to the li tag only?Yes.li { /* Styles for li elements */ } For example; when I have an ordered list, I would like the numbers to have the same font type as the paragraphs p, to do so I apply

Re: [WSG] Article: creating drop cap on the fly

Paul Novitski wrote: At 10/4/2006 08:49 AM, Thierry Koblentz wrote: I'd appreciate any comment that would help me improve this article: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/the_perfect_image_replacement_technique.asp and http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/the_perfect_drop_cap.asp While of course

[WSG] *Pure* CSS drop down menu

I'd appreciate any comment that would help me improve this menu: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/new_drop_down/AB.asp I'd also appreciate feedback on browsers support as so far I've only tested in: - ie7, - ie6, - ie5 (Win and Mac), - FF 0.8, - FF 1.5, - Opera 9, - Safari 2 --- Regards,

Re: [WSG] Article: creating drop cap on the fly

Re: http://tjkdesign.com/articles/a_perfect_Image_Replacement_technique.asp I wrote: The most obvious disadvantage of using JavaScript to modify markup is the inevitable delay: scripts of this nature wait till download is complete before manipulating the DOM. At 10/6/2006 03:00 AM, Christian

RE: [WSG] *Pure* CSS drop down menu

I'd appreciate any comment that would help me improve this menu: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/new_drop_down/AB.asp I really like this menu - it works well in all the browsers I have installed ( Opera, IE 6, IE 7, FF, etc. ). I look forward to it's release as I would love the

RE: [WSG] *Pure* CSS drop down menu

-Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thierry Koblentz Sent: 06 October 2006 16:40 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] *Pure* CSS drop down menu I'd appreciate any comment that would help me improve this menu:

Re: [WSG] *Pure* CSS drop down menu

On 10/6/06, Thierry Koblentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd appreciate any comment that would help me improve this menu: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/new_drop_down/AB.asp I would recommend somehow positioning the sub-list to line up with the upper link that makes it appear. As it is, all

Re: [WSG] *Pure* CSS drop down menu

I'd appreciate any comment that would help me improve this menu: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/new_drop_down/AB.asp It's functional enough from what I can tell (been playing with it in FF), but not terribly user-friendly. I wouldn't use it. It requires some serious dexterity and hand-eye

Re: [WSG] Article: creating drop cap on the fly

Paul Novitski wrote: Re: http://tjkdesign.com/articles/a_perfect_Image_Replacement_technique.asp I wrote: The most obvious disadvantage of using JavaScript to modify markup is the inevitable delay: scripts of this nature wait till download is complete before manipulating the DOM. Maybe I'm

Re: [WSG] Bad Design Principles

And I should have titled this thread better as well. Not that the design is bad, but the build process is lacking IMHO. Jeff Doc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nick, Just by way of clarification, when I said it _looks_ bad I wasn't referring to the visual aspect of the design, but

Re: [WSG] Bad Design Principles

And I should have titled this thread better as well. Not that the design is bad, but the build process is lacking IMHO. Jeff Doc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nick, Just by way of clarification, when I said it _looks_ bad I wasn't referring to the visual aspect of the design, but

Re: [WSG] *Pure* CSS drop down menu

Christian Montoya wrote: On 10/6/06, Thierry Koblentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd appreciate any comment that would help me improve this menu: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/new_drop_down/AB.asp I would recommend somehow positioning the sub-list to line up with the upper link that makes

Re: [WSG] *Pure* CSS drop down menu

Frances Berriman wrote: -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thierry Koblentz Sent: 06 October 2006 16:40 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] *Pure* CSS drop down menu I'd appreciate any comment that would help me

Re: [WSG] *Pure* CSS drop down menu

Christian Heilmann wrote: I'd appreciate any comment that would help me improve this menu: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/new_drop_down/AB.asp How many more times do we have to prove that we can use CSS for behaviour just to realise that it was never meant for it? I agree with you, but

Re: [WSG] *Pure* CSS drop down menu

I'd appreciate any comment that would help me improve this menu: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/new_drop_down/AB.asp How many more times do we have to prove that we can use CSS for behaviour just to realise that it was never meant for it? I agree with you, but pushing the envelop is fun

Re: [WSG] *Pure* CSS drop down menu

Hi Christian, I am pretty new to all of this and by no means any kind of expert - so I am reading this all with interest. I have often been told that pure CSS is a good idea as javascript is something that can be turned off - is this true? I am very much in the camp of pushing envelopes

Re: [WSG] *Pure* CSS drop down menu

Hi Christian, So, I am quite clear on what you DON'T like - but what about these great combination menus with CSS and javascript? Can you point us to some of your work? I am not really interested in key tab navigation right now - I'd just like to see: 1. How good these 'super-valid' menus

Re: [WSG] *Pure* CSS drop down menu

Hi Al, not condescending at all - particularly for you ;-). All good points - and this time I realised what you meant by the sub menu items in the flow of the page. Many thanks, Max. I'm sure Christian will respond, but I would like to offer some input, as well. Based on our last

Re: [WSG] *Pure* CSS drop down menu

Christian Heilmann wrote: These are not new things. This is a dead horse that has been flogged so many times there is nothing left of it. Search CSS-D for problems with suckerfish, check cssplay.co.uk, there is nothing whatsoever creative or inventive about CSS-only menus. It is an endless

RE: [WSG] *Pure* CSS drop down menu

Frances, One of the issues I've found with CSS drop down menus is that the functions cannot be time sensitive. James Edwards and Cameron Adams have writen some _javascript_ functions in the Sitepoint _javascript_ Anthology that deal with this issue. This JS allows the user to take a less

Re: [WSG] *Pure* CSS drop down menu

One of the issues I've found with CSS drop down menus is that the functions cannot be time sensitive. James Edwards and Cameron Adams have writen some Javascript functions in the Sitepoint Javascript Anthology The issue of timers is fairly elementary JavaScript and has been at work in many

Re: [WSG] *Pure* CSS drop down menu

Title: Re: [WSG] *Pure* CSS drop down menu FWIW, what we have done in the past uses JS timers as mentioned to auto hide the drops when not moused on as well as JS to show/hide layers (the drop menus). Otherwise, if JS is off, the main nav button that would have triggered the drop is clickable,

RE: [WSG] While we are discussing menus

OH ! I figured it out all by myself *big grin* I had to make the layer size 1px x1px Maybe someone else can tell me a better fix - but it fixed it :) Thanks! ***List Guidelines:

Re: [WSG] *Pure* CSS drop down menu

The issue of "timers" is fairly elementary _javascript_ and has been at work in many menu systems for quite a few years - :-) Right. Sorry. I didn't mean to suggest that they "created" the so-called timers, but they introducedthem tothe suckerfish-type menus, addressing the usability concerns

Re: [WSG] *Pure* CSS drop down menu

From: Christian Heilmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] As to full fledged great examples of dynamic menus: http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/menu/ http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/examples/menu/ They seem to possess the usability flaws earlier discussed in this thread. http://www.udm4.com/ Those are the

Re: [WSG] *Pure* CSS drop down menu

You like it or not, people ask for these types of menus. Mine was over three years old and I thought it was time to work on a new one using what I learned these last years. I don't see anything wrong with that... Well, you expect people to keep up with your development and come back and upgrade

[WSG Announce] Web Standards Group London meetup - October 19

This is a one-way list for WSG Announcements Web Standards Group London meetup - October 19 On Thursday October 19th at 7pm, the second London based meeting for the Web Standards Group will be taking take place at the New Cavendish Street Campus of the

Re: [WSG] *Pure* CSS drop down menu

This is Web pages we are talking about - not operating systems. If I were inclined to believe what you are trying to say, I would most certainly drop back ten, punt, and transform my web site into something that looked like this: http://www.useit.com/ Why do you try to make them work with

Re: [WSG] *Pure* CSS drop down menu

As to full fledged great examples of dynamic menus: http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/menu/ http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/examples/menu/ They seem to possess the usability flaws earlier discussed in this thread. You seem to have lost me. Can you elaborate? Take the full example:

Re: [WSG] *Pure* CSS drop down menu

Christian Heilmann wrote: Well, you expect people to keep up with your development and come back and upgrade their implementations, as obviously you found flaws in the old one. I was talking about the look of my menu. Its functionality didn't change. I didn't upgrade its implementation, I just

Re: [WSG] *Pure* CSS drop down menu

You seem to have lost me. Can you elaborate? Take the full example: http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/examples/menu/leftnavfromjs.html Sure. Here is an example that shows exactly what I meant: http://www.projectseven.com/csslab/testing/yahoomenu/yahoo.html http://www.udm4.com/ Those are the

Re: [WSG] *Pure* CSS drop down menu

Christian Heilmann wrote: do, it is constantly tested on all the A-level browsers, backed up by Why IE Mac didn't make the list? All these Yahoo menus I tried trigger script errors before returning a *blank* page? In my book, that goes against accessibility. It has nothing to do with your

Re: [WSG] *Pure* CSS drop down menu

On 6 Oct 2006, at 22:46, Al Sparber wrote: You seem to have lost me. Can you elaborate? Take the full example: http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/examples/menu/leftnavfromjs.html Sure. Here is an example that shows exactly what I meant:

Re: [WSG] *Pure* CSS drop down menu

You seem to have lost me. Can you elaborate? Take the full example: http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/examples/menu/leftnavfromjs.html Sure. Here is an example that shows exactly what I meant: http://www.projectseven.com/csslab/testing/yahoomenu/yahoo.html The flicker can be customised with a

Re: [WSG] *Pure* CSS drop down menu

And it is an old issue. In Feb 1999 Bruce Tognazzini mentions a cone- shaped window for the mouse path developed for Apple in his answer to Question 6 (sorry, no purple numbers). http://www.asktog.com/columns/022DesignedToGiveFitts.html Are people really re-discovering this? Well, it happens

Re: [WSG] *Pure* CSS drop down menu

do, it is constantly tested on all the A-level browsers, backed up by Why IE Mac didn't make the list? All these Yahoo menus I tried trigger script errors before returning a *blank* page? These are demo pages, not implementations. In my book, that goes against accessibility. It has nothing

Re: [WSG] *Pure* CSS drop down menu

On 6 Oct 2006, at 23:32, Christian Heilmann wrote: And it is an old issue. In Feb 1999 Bruce Tognazzini mentions a cone- shaped window for the mouse path developed for Apple in his answer to Question 6 (sorry, no purple numbers). http://www.asktog.com/columns/022DesignedToGiveFitts.html Are

Re: [WSG] *Pure* CSS drop down menu

Dear lord Christian, what was that about? Do you preach to everyone? I was casually agreeing with your views on usability etc (whilst trying hard not to mention your attitude towards other posters) ... and you give me a lecture? You even cut my paragraphs in half to allow you to treat my

Re: [WSG] *Pure* CSS drop down menu

On 6 Oct 2006, at 22:46, Al Sparber wrote: You seem to have lost me. Can you elaborate? Take the full example: http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/examples/menu/leftnavfromjs.html Sure. Here is an example that shows exactly what I meant:

Re: [WSG] *Pure* CSS drop down menu

Christian Heilmann wrote: Why IE Mac didn't make the list? All these Yahoo menus I tried trigger script errors before returning a *blank* page? These are demo pages, not implementations. I thought these demos were supposed to help developers find out how the menus render in real life? Don't

Re: [WSG] *Pure* CSS drop down menu

what was that about? Do you preach to everyone? I was casually agreeing with your views on usability etc (whilst trying hard not to mention your attitude towards other posters) ... and you give me a lecture? You even cut my paragraphs in half to allow you to treat my words out of context and

RE: [WSG] *Pure* CSS drop down menu

I hoped to gain a bit of insite from this thread, but things are getting a bit thick. Are all of these threads debate oriented? This is my first exposure to the group. Joshua K. Briley President Para-Diddle Design, LLC 2196 Biron St. Mandeville, LA 70448 504-232-8250 www.para-diddledesign.com

[WSG] OS9 browsers (was) *Pure* CSS drop down menu

Thierry Koblentz wrote: In my book, that goes against accessibility. It has nothing to do with your example of DVD and TV from the 60's, it has to do with real people who are stuck with OS 9. For them, ie 5 is the best (only) browser. Let's refer to them as the technology impaired... Don't

[WSG] Accessible, lightweight JavaScript menu - which ones do people like?

Just looking through the thread on pure CSS menus... I understand why some people say that CSS is not designed for, and therefore should be not be used for, behaviour. I've been using Suckerfish menus for the past couple of years, because they are simple, search engine friendly and lightweight.

Re: [WSG] OS9 browsers (was) *Pure* CSS drop down menu

Nick Gleitzman wrote: Did iCab ship with the OS (honnest question, I don't know)? And is it considered an A-grade browser? No. OS7/8 shipped with Netscape as the default browser until Bill Gates threw some money at Apple to help keep them afloat, at which time, and as part of the deal, IE

Re: [WSG] Accessible, lightweight JavaScript menu - which ones do people like?

On 10/7/06, Kay Smoljak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So to balance out that thread, which is very theoretical and philosophical, let's have some practical examples. What do people recommend for standards compliant, search engine friendly, accessible JavaScript drop-down menu systems? Obviously the

Re: [WSG] Accessible, lightweight JavaScript menu - which ones do people like?

From: Andrew Krespanis [EMAIL PROTECTED] plug I only use James Edwards' Ultimate Dropdown Menu - http://udm4.com/ It's not the lightest JS menu, but I do believe it's the most accessible and has a very good feature set with extensive documentation. Any of my clients who have needed a drop-down

Re: [WSG] Accessible, lightweight JavaScript menu - which ones do people like?

Kay Smoljak wrote: not be used for, behaviour. I've been using Suckerfish menus for the past couple of years, because they are simple, search engine friendly and lightweight. Scripted solutions can be search engine friendly too. My input: I have used Revenge of the menubar from

Re: [WSG] *Pure* CSS menus and Pagerank

I like the pure CSS menu idea a lot - but my approach has always been to generate flyout menus using script only Not sure if this still holds true, but my reason for doing this originally was that Google PageRank works best mathematically if your link structure is a hierarchy, rather than