Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Making Lubuntu even Better (Bug Fixes)

[David Sugar]

Usually I think these kind of ramdisk issues become most important in
older ssd netbooks where one wants specifically to reduce write
activity, and while it may be a profile valid to consider for lubuntu,
it is a corner case.  It might be better to handle simply through a wiki
article explaining how to mount and use ram for /tmp and /var/log for
those who might want to do so.

On 12/27/2010 09:04 AM, Julien Lavergne wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm forwarding this mail to our mailing list, so everyone will be aware
> of this mail.
> 
> Le 26 déc. 2010 à 14:19, spicy gmail  > a écrit :
> 
>> *First of all hats off for the great work you have done in Lubuntu
>> Its just amazing
>> Its fast & great*
> Thank you for using it :)
> 
>> *But would like to see some great additions to it*
>>
>> /ram usage should mirror Lupu(puppy linux) A.K.A 50mb
>> /
> It's the goal to maintain the RAM usage as low as possible.
> 
>> /Should keep tmp & logs in ram(like Fuduntu)
>> /
> This will increase the RAM usage ;) And on a low spec device, RAM is
> already full quickly. I'm not sure we will have a big boost with such
> option.
>> /Disk writing should be reduced & ram should be used as much instead
>> of hdd (will help in powersaving & speed)
>> /
> See comment above.
> 
>> /minimalistic desktop environment,
>> efficiency found under the hood & Should come packaged with all the
>> usual suspects for a lightweight distro
>> but benefits from smooth integration with buntu's package management
>> system and an overall experience that feels more like buntu./
> Could you give us more information about this ? Lubuntu is already build
> with full Ubuntu repositories (including PPA) support.
> 
>> *Should Have the latest (add an option for users to choose b/w stable
>> or nightly or trunk builds of)*
>>
>> /LXDE ,PCmanFM ,X-Org X-Server- Python 3.2 beta , Kernel 2.6.37
>> NetworkManager with nm-applet in graphics mode, and textual GUIs in
>> textmode (compatible to ubuntu specification).
>>
>>
>> mobile-broadband-provider-info
>> database of mobile broadband service providers
>> modemmanager
>> Point-to-Point Protocol (PPP) - daemon
>> pppconfig
>> A text menu based utility for configuring ppp
>> wvdial
>> network-manager
>> 0.8.1-3 network management framework daemon
>> network-manager-gnome
>> 0.8.1-1 network management framework
>> (GNOME frontend)
>> network-manager-openvpn 
>> 0.8.1-1 network management framework
>> (OpenVPN plugin core)
>> network-manager-openvpn-gnome  0.8.1-1
>> network management framework (OpenVPN plugin GNOME GUI)
>> network-manager-pptp
>> 0.8.1-1 network management framework (PPTP
>> plugin core)
>> network-manager-pptp-gnome 0.8.1-1
>> network management framework (PPTP plugin GNOME GUI)
>> network-manager-vpnc
>> 0.8.1-1 network management framework (VPNC
>> plugin core)
>> network-manager-vpnc-gnome 0.8.1-1
>> network management framework (VPNC plugin GNOME GUI)/
> For LXDE and Pcmanfm, you can use the LXDE PPA which provides last
> releases of each component. For the rest, you can add any PPA which
> provides those packages.
>>
>> I know you are very busy & apperciate you for that but please consider
>>
>> looking towards your reply
>>
>> regards
> Regards,
> Julien Lavergne
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Deadbeef in Lubuntu PPA

[David Sugar]

I have personally come to love exaile.  But this more had to do with
Rhythmbox having many additional gnome dependencies, where exaile does
not.  On the other hand neither is truly lightweight.

On 11/15/2010 02:13 PM, Julien Lavergne wrote:
> Le lundi 15 novembre 2010 à 09:43 -0300, Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset a
> écrit :
>> But let me tell you that the behaviour of Audacious compared to these
>> two others is far better. Is there something that i'm missing with
>> this program?
> 
> I also try audacious, and the result was not so fantastic : CPU 22%, RAM
> 27 Mb. It's similar to aqualung.
> 
> To see a real boost ... try to use gnome-mplayer : CPU 6%, RAM 15 Mb !
> But the bad point is that the GUI is not really good when you use it as
> a music player.
> 
> Regards,
> Julien Lavergne
> 
> 
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Intersting Article

[David Sugar]

Well, in all fairness, KDE has a very specific architectural vision,
starting with things like plasma, etc, and it is not one that had been
focused on minimizing requirements.  For people that want those things
KDE offers, thats fine, and that does not seem like bloat to them, I am
sure.  I am however happy to see that the results of optimizing lxde can
be measured and validating in this kind of way.

Dallas Wiebelhaus wrote:
> Yes.
> 
> On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 7:50 AM, Andrew Woodhead
>  > wrote:
> 
> I don't contest the results but can someone explain how a lighter DE
> uses less power? Is it because the CPU is used less so takes less juice?
> Nice article though. KDE is really bloated and the Kubuntu team is
> quite small.
> 
> -Andy
> 
> 
> On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 1:40 PM, Glen Bizeau  > wrote:
> 
> I especially like the little list at the bottom
> 
> http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/KDE-a-resource-hog-949634.html
> 
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Indicator applets support in lxpanel

[David Sugar]

Right now few things use the messaging indicator, and most are things
not even in lubuntu by default.  Those that do (like pidgeon) still also
continue to support the classic notification workspace as well.

Julien Lavergne wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I played a bit with the indicators applets (the new applets of the
> gnome-panel, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MessagingMenu for an example).
> I managed to hack something to see what is the impact of them on a LXDE
> panel and in Lubuntu, because it's a feature requested :)
> 
> If the result is visually similar to the gnome-panel (see the attached
> screenshot), there is major problems :
> - very few applications have an indicator support on Lubuntu (only
> Pidgin for the message indicator)
> - installing any indicator applet bring a lot of depends : The sound
> indicator bring pulseaudio, the "quit" indicator bring gnome-session and
> gdm ... even the message indicator bring a lot of gnome depends.
> - it's not memory free, any indicator bring 4Mb of RAM, which is not
> terrible, but quite expensive for example, for a sound applet ...
> 
> I think the support for activated them shouldn't be too hard to
> integrate in lxpanel. But no indicator applets is now usable in Lubuntu.
> 
> Regards,
> Julien Lavergne 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] new logo

[David Sugar]

And +1 for the blue looks lovely :).  I think green should be added for
lubuntu 10.10, when there is time to complete it right, rather than now.

Julien Lavergne wrote:
> +1 for the first, for consistency.
> For now, the theme is only blue. Introducing a green part mean that the
> artwork need to match, which is not the case. 
> Also, in practice, we are under User Interface Freeze, mean that the
> interface should not change too much.
> 
> Regards,
> Julien Lavergne
> 
> Le dimanche 07 mars 2010 à 23:51 +0100, 神癒礁湖 a écrit :
>> Thank you to everybody. But remember, it's not official, and we're at
>> "mockup status". For now, the "poll" is here:
>>
>> BLUE: 6 votes
>>
>> BLUE / GREEN: 9 votes
>>
>> (Mine not included, I can't choose!)
>>
>>
>> BTW, I remember there was more people on this mail list. Where are
>> those who didn't vote yet?
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Tested on MSI Wind U100

[David Sugar]

I actually was not suggesting there should be such a remix.  I was
suggesting however that one could potentially do this with mini-iso
install by selecting them explicitly at install time if we have lxde
desktop as a task in mini-iso.  And yes, one could do a server install
and add lxde/lubuntu after.  It can in some cases be useful to have a
local server gui console.  Another interesting scenario is ltsp.

Mikhail Maksimov wrote:
> Hello.
> 
> Just one thing I wanted to note: server GUI is a bad idea. If you want
> server, you install server, if you want a workstation on low-grade
> hardware, you install Lubuntu. If you have low-grade hardware to use as
> a server, you definitely shouldn't be wasting the precious (and, oh, so
> limited!) RAM and CPU resources on GUI instead of serving something.
> 
> If someone wants to have lubuntu desktop on server, there's always an
> option of installing server then adding any desktop environment, or
> maybe installing Lubuntu then switching to the server kernel. But I
> think all the possible "mix" options should not be part of Lubuntu
> installer, nor should there be a separate server+LXDE remix of Lubuntu
> (Ubuntu?)
> 
> Regards!
> Mikhail
> 
> PS If you don't like vi, you can use nano, it's part of the server
> install and it is WYSIWIG.
> 
> On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 9:44 AM, Josef A. Beroeatwarin
> mailto:rajatanpacel...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> Hai everybody
> 
> Hai I tested Lubuntu on my MSI wind U100, I am not a pro like you
> guys but I like to have my hands on it because I really believe lubuntu
> will be much better the Xubuntu. And of course I WANT to have a very
> lightweight linux on my netbook and PC.
> 
> I am running on Ubuntu 9.10 remix  installed on my MSI Wind U100,
> after I while I started with Apt to install LXDE
> After running on LXDE I was satisfied and very optimistic that  it
> will be one  that  I am looking for.( after a lot of  switching for
> linux to linux)
> 
> Here are the problems on the MSI wind U100:
> 
> * Filemanager Pcman  0.5.1 on the left windows are drives displayed
> twice. if you click one of the with the same name you will get an
> error-message "Directory doesnt exist"
> * Wicd it a very nice looking piece but to bad, to while connection
> the the wirelles network (WEP) ofcourse it was validated but I got
> an error message "Connection failed:Unable get IP Adress" that was
> during the status "Obtaining IP address.
> * I have no sound I realize I have no mixer something like that so I
> dont know if its muting or not.
> * FN keys. FN+F4 and FN+F5 is working very well,its for dimming
> the back-light and  FN+F12 sleep mode is working but after wakeup
> its starting to sleep again and again after wakeup
> *My bluetooth is witched on with FN+F11 but no blue-tooth detected
> (sorry I forgot to listed with lsusb before installing ubuntu remix
> again)
> * Harddisk external and flashdisk is working very well.
> 
> My Questions,request,Ideas,what I hope very soon or whatever it is.
> 
> 1. The Lubuntu in alpha stage on iso,when. Ofcourse everybody is busy.
> 2. Lubuntu on flash disk image because there is alot of netbooks
> without CD or DVD.
> 3. Sometimes I got netbook that has an SDcard as HDA is it
> compatible with it ?
> 4. I think Lubuntu will be great for creating server from old PC's
> with GUI interface instead having console at from your nose and
> doing that Vi thing.Maybe is there somebody can make a server
> edition. While installing you can choose what of kind of server do
> you want to install.
> 5. And nice front-end for backup that can make image of the drives.
> 6. Do you guys think that thunderbird and firefox take of computer
> sources especially nower days there is allot of websites based on
> flash  like  farmville it make even windows xp slow.
> 7. What is the other syntax like dmesg and lsusb that I can use to
> get info out of my toys and to send to you guys.
> 8. Last thing that I want to say is.. I am sorry for starting asking
> allot of questions even the alpha  is not out yet...
> 
> Well guys thats it... I hope its enough for the input.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Please let me know when Lubuntu is ready for early testing...

[David Sugar]

Ubuntu flavors are not LTS in the same way as Ubuntu itself.  LTS I
think has a specific meaning that implies with it Canonical paid support
as being valid for those who have service contracts for the same period,
and there is no Canonical paid support for Lubuntu or other community
spins.  However, in that the common core is Ubuntu, those parts
inherited from Ubuntu are of course maintained as LTS by Canonical, and
that includes those packages we install from main.  We might however
want to consider what a 2 year cycle or longer maintenance does mean for
those lxde and other packages that will make up Lubuntu Lucid if clearly
users have such expectations, and we need to be much clearer about the
status of Lubuntu Lucid in this respect for when people do ask.

In respect to this target platform, Jeff, I think Lubuntu should be able
to run well in your environment, or at least it should be a goal if not,
for that describes one of the target audiences Lubuntu is specifically
meant to address.  Presently we should run in 128m ram if you don't run
firefox, and certainly there is no 3d or accelerated X requirement.  An
interesting though very rough comparison from a Karmic test release of
Lubuntu is found here:

http://www.linux-mag.com/cache/7520/1.html

Jeff Elkner wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> I super happy to see working moving forward on Lubuntu.  I teach
> Information and Communication Technology classes in Arlington
> Virginia.  We have:
> 
> 1. Low income students who do not have computers at home.
> 2. "Free" older computers that I could give to them.
> 
> The "free" computers vary, but they start at Pentium II or III
> processors with 128 MB or higher RAM.  I would love to be able to get
> Lubuntu to install an run effectively on these machines, since it
> would enable students to use the computers for class projects at home.
> 
> I'm ready to test the OS whenever I get the word.  It would be
> wonderful if a working version could come out with the Lucid release,
> as then we could use it for the following 2 years.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> jeff elkner
> 
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Tested on MSI Wind U100

[David Sugar]

That is an interesting and excellent question.  What is driving the
interest in Chromium for UNE ARM is entirely performance based vs
Firefox.  Let me make a note on this on the lightweight browser blueprint...

Mario Behling wrote:
> Hi David,
> 
> thanks a lot for your ideas.
> 
> Do you have more information on which Chromium version will be in the
> Ubuntu repo? The reason why some people refrain from using Chromium
> are privacy issues. An RLZ identifier, an encoded string is sent to
> Google on search queries or every 24 hours with Chromium. Will that be
> changed in the Chromium version in Ubuntu?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mario
> 
> 
> On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 10:15 PM, David Sugar  
> wrote:
>> This touches upon many areas.  I will initially comment on a few.  In
>> respect to SD cards and lower cost SSD media, I think there is a lot we
>> can do to better optimize the user experience, even from install time,
>> and perhaps Lubuntu is the right place to think about doing this first.
>>  There is (naturally:) a blueprint I have on this topic:
>> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-unr-ssd-optimizations
>>
>> There were a couple of things I recall missing in the original seed for
>> Karmic, including a mixer.  These things will be addressed in the
>> Lubuntu seed for Lucid.  The usb creator can be used to take any iso cd
>>  install image and turn it into a USB install, so once we have a live
>> iso for Lubuntu Lucid, making it available for USB keys is very easy.
>> This is what is done for UNR in Karmic (and presumably Lucid), where we
>> distribute a CD ISO while most netbooks of course have no CD/DVD drive.
>>
>> I like the idea of LXDE as a server gui for local admin as well.  Maybe
>> the place to start is with the mini-iso, where we could work on having
>> the ability to select ubuntu server and lxde desktop as a valid
>> combination.  In fact I was thinking of taking a netbook and using it as
>> a soho server, so it would be very logical to have lxde on that :).
>>
>> Chromium is going to be used for UNE on ARM, and the same arguments
>> could apply to Lubuntu, where firefox is a resource hog.  Of course, I
>> think epiphany-webkit or something similar does also work well for
>> Lubuntu, and supports mozilla plugins including flash.
>>
>> I would love to see more people asking more questions, not less :).
>>
>> Josef A. Beroeatwarin wrote:
>>> Hai everybody
>>>
>>> Hai I tested Lubuntu on my MSI wind U100, I am not a pro like you guys
>>> but I like to have my hands on it because I really believe lubuntu
>>> will be much better the Xubuntu. And of course I WANT to have a very
>>> lightweight linux on my netbook and PC.
>>>
>>> I am running on Ubuntu 9.10 remix  installed on my MSI Wind U100, after
>>> I while I started with Apt to install LXDE
>>> After running on LXDE I was satisfied and very optimistic that  it will
>>> be one  that  I am looking for.( after a lot of  switching for linux to
>>> linux)
>>>
>>> Here are the problems on the MSI wind U100:
>>>
>>> * Filemanager Pcman  0.5.1 on the left windows are drives displayed
>>> twice. if you click one of the with the same name you will get an
>>> error-message "Directory doesnt exist"
>>> * Wicd it a very nice looking piece but to bad, to while connection the
>>> the wirelles network (WEP) ofcourse it was validated but I got an error
>>> message "Connection failed:Unable get IP Adress" that was during the
>>> status "Obtaining IP address.
>>> * I have no sound I realize I have no mixer something like that so I
>>> dont know if its muting or not.
>>> * FN keys. FN+F4 and FN+F5 is working very well,its for dimming the
>>> back-light and  FN+F12 sleep mode is working but after wakeup its
>>> starting to sleep again and again after wakeup
>>> *My bluetooth is witched on with FN+F11 but no blue-tooth detected
>>> (sorry I forgot to listed with lsusb before installing ubuntu remix again)
>>> * Harddisk external and flashdisk is working very well.
>>>
>>> My Questions,request,Ideas,what I hope very soon or whatever it is.
>>>
>>> 1. The Lubuntu in alpha stage on iso,when. Ofcourse everybody is busy.
>>> 2. Lubuntu on flash disk image because there is alot of netbooks without
>>> CD or DVD.
>>> 3. Sometimes I got netbook that has an SDcard as HDA is it compatible
>>> with it ?
>>> 4. I think Lubuntu will be great for creating serve

Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] New programs by default

[David Sugar]

Mario Behling wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> thanks for starting the work on Lucid. Can we update
> 
> I agree, that we need to look out for lightweight options for applications.
> 
> About the applications you are proposing.
> 
> xfce task manager - I know that lxtask has some bugs, but we defined
> it in the applications list. Please let us know, what is the reason to
> change it?

And equally important, if these issues in lxtask are likely to be
addressed, say before Lucid release, then I do not see reason to change
either.

> parcellite - seems good to me.
> 
> Osmo - I wonder how compatible we should try to keep it with other
> solutions. Import and export functionality of data seems to be very
> rudimentary? I found ical can be exported. What do you think?

I actually like the idea of having osmo in Lubuntu, as a small personal
organizer application.

> language-selector - very useful!
> 
> software-properties-gtk - good idea
> 
> How about lxlauncher - where would be a good place to have a button to
> change desktop mode? Do you agree that a switchable desktop mode would
> be a good idea?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Mario
> 
> 
> On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 8:47 AM, Julien Lavergne  wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I just added 6 new programs to the seed to cover some missing features.
>> They will be installed by default in the next upload of the seed :
>> - xfce4-taskmanager : for monitoring tasks, the origin of lxtask
>> - parcellite : for a clipboard manager (not start on login for now)
>> - hardinfo : for information on the system
>> - osmo : for managing event, calendar ...
>> - language-selector : for installing language packs
>> - software-properties-gtk : for managing sources in synatic
>>
>> The splash is still missing, but as plymouth was just uploaded, I prefer
>> to wait more before adding it to the seed.
>>
>> If you think the seed need other programs to be added (not replaced !),
>> please speak now :)
>>
>> For discussion on existing applications, please begin a new thread or a
>> new page on the wiki. Please also note this :
>> - Only propose application which are in the archive (not PPA, official
>> archive). Exceptions are lxde components (like lxdm) and chromium which
>> should be added to official repository soon.
>> - Prepare some arguments :) The actual policy is to keep the existing
>> seed, so the application need to bring real and additional interesting
>> stuff.
>> - Read and update previous discussion on
>> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Applications/Process%20Documentation
>>
>> Regards,
>> Julien Lavergne
> 
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu proposed technical preview (called lx-ultra)

[David Sugar]

Ultimately I think mplayer is a problem, at least from the perspective
of being an "official" variant, and especially with respect to codecs.
That being said, I am also aware many will choose to install mplayer if
it's not in the default install, as I am aware many use medibuntu repos.

Leszek Lesner wrote:
> Here a technical preview of a LXDE based Ubuntu (Lubuntu proposed) Desktop 
> based on Karmic Koala. 
> 
> Software included :
> Kernel 2.6.32-7 (lucid) 
> PCManFM 0.5.2 (bugfixed release) 
> gnome-mplayer (+ codecs) 
> aqualung
> xfburn (burning app)
> claws-mail (mail client)
> chromium-browser (build 4.0.226) (webbrowser)
> people 0.2 (manage vcards)
> orage (manage vcal) 
> gnome-alsamixer (audiomixer app) 
> OpenOffice 3.1 (fitts on cd but maybe too memory intensive, especially for 
> 128 MB RAM users) 
> WICD to manage networks
> gigolo (as networkmanager and computer icon on the desktop to launch and 
> mount drives [convenience for windows switcher] ) 
> 
> 
> I changed some config files of openbox to support FN-Keys for some netbooks 
> (so Volume up and down should work). Included is also a custom theme and a 
> LXDE Menu button. 
> 
> Some new hotkeys:
> CTRL+ALT+T will now launch a new Terminal window
> CTRL+ALT+D will now launch a new filemanager window (SUPER + D will hide all 
> windows and show the desktop) 
> 
> Some apps like network-manager , gnome-power-manager, xfce4-volumed that use 
> the new notify-osd system are fine but seem to eat to much memory so I 
> removed them for now and put in some replacements, like wicd and a volume.sh 
> script. 
> I also added those apps from the app proposel page that seem to do best in my 
> opinion. 
> See : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Applications
> The CDRigBy from the other features would be nice to include, but the website 
> seems to be down. 
> More on Lubuntu : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu
> How to get involved: http://blog.lxde.org/?p=562
> 
> The obligatory screenshots:
> xsplash: 
> http://ubuntu-pics.de/bild/33545/2009_12_08_201127_1280x800_scrot_iYt3XS.png
> desktop: 
> http://ubuntu-pics.de/bild/33546/2009_12_08_201146_1280x800_scrot_utIQ4J.png
> 
> Download: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2351433/lx-ultra-remix.iso
> MD5: 29811ba871d3a4088de8f71ac1a7948b lx-ultra-remix.iso
> 
> Note: This is only a testing version and is not intent to run on a productive 
> machine. Virtualbox seems to have problems loading the vboxvideo driver thats 
> not avaiable. Simply edit the xorg.conf and try to load it with the vesa 
> driver. 
> 
> Comments and feedback are appreciated :)
> 
> PS: I will put the artwork onto the lucid incoming artwork very soon: 
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Artwork/Incoming/Lucid
> aswell as the openbox configuration file/patch for the added hotkeys.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Leszek
> 
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Tested on MSI Wind U100

[David Sugar]

This touches upon many areas.  I will initially comment on a few.  In
respect to SD cards and lower cost SSD media, I think there is a lot we
can do to better optimize the user experience, even from install time,
and perhaps Lubuntu is the right place to think about doing this first.
 There is (naturally:) a blueprint I have on this topic:
https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-unr-ssd-optimizations

There were a couple of things I recall missing in the original seed for
Karmic, including a mixer.  These things will be addressed in the
Lubuntu seed for Lucid.  The usb creator can be used to take any iso cd
 install image and turn it into a USB install, so once we have a live
iso for Lubuntu Lucid, making it available for USB keys is very easy.
This is what is done for UNR in Karmic (and presumably Lucid), where we
distribute a CD ISO while most netbooks of course have no CD/DVD drive.

I like the idea of LXDE as a server gui for local admin as well.  Maybe
the place to start is with the mini-iso, where we could work on having
the ability to select ubuntu server and lxde desktop as a valid
combination.  In fact I was thinking of taking a netbook and using it as
a soho server, so it would be very logical to have lxde on that :).

Chromium is going to be used for UNE on ARM, and the same arguments
could apply to Lubuntu, where firefox is a resource hog.  Of course, I
think epiphany-webkit or something similar does also work well for
Lubuntu, and supports mozilla plugins including flash.

I would love to see more people asking more questions, not less :).

Josef A. Beroeatwarin wrote:
> Hai everybody
> 
> Hai I tested Lubuntu on my MSI wind U100, I am not a pro like you guys
> but I like to have my hands on it because I really believe lubuntu
> will be much better the Xubuntu. And of course I WANT to have a very
> lightweight linux on my netbook and PC.
> 
> I am running on Ubuntu 9.10 remix  installed on my MSI Wind U100, after
> I while I started with Apt to install LXDE
> After running on LXDE I was satisfied and very optimistic that  it will
> be one  that  I am looking for.( after a lot of  switching for linux to
> linux)
> 
> Here are the problems on the MSI wind U100:
> 
> * Filemanager Pcman  0.5.1 on the left windows are drives displayed
> twice. if you click one of the with the same name you will get an
> error-message "Directory doesnt exist"
> * Wicd it a very nice looking piece but to bad, to while connection the
> the wirelles network (WEP) ofcourse it was validated but I got an error
> message "Connection failed:Unable get IP Adress" that was during the
> status "Obtaining IP address.
> * I have no sound I realize I have no mixer something like that so I
> dont know if its muting or not.
> * FN keys. FN+F4 and FN+F5 is working very well,its for dimming the
> back-light and  FN+F12 sleep mode is working but after wakeup its
> starting to sleep again and again after wakeup
> *My bluetooth is witched on with FN+F11 but no blue-tooth detected
> (sorry I forgot to listed with lsusb before installing ubuntu remix again)
> * Harddisk external and flashdisk is working very well.
> 
> My Questions,request,Ideas,what I hope very soon or whatever it is.
> 
> 1. The Lubuntu in alpha stage on iso,when. Ofcourse everybody is busy.
> 2. Lubuntu on flash disk image because there is alot of netbooks without
> CD or DVD.
> 3. Sometimes I got netbook that has an SDcard as HDA is it compatible
> with it ?
> 4. I think Lubuntu will be great for creating server from old PC's with
> GUI interface instead having console at from your nose and doing that Vi
> thing.Maybe is there somebody can make a server edition. While
> installing you can choose what of kind of server do you want to install.
> 5. And nice front-end for backup that can make image of the drives.
> 6. Do you guys think that thunderbird and firefox take of computer
> sources especially nower days there is allot of websites based on flash 
> like  farmville it make even windows xp slow.
> 7. What is the other syntax like dmesg and lsusb that I can use to get
> info out of my toys and to send to you guys.
> 8. Last thing that I want to say is.. I am sorry for starting asking
> allot of questions even the alpha  is not out yet...
> 
> Well guys thats it... I hope its enough for the input.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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[Lubuntu-desktop] [Bug 432664] Re: Minor Lubuntu meta package changes for Karmic beta

[David Sugar]

debdiff for 0.5 release attached, Julian, if you would like to sponsor
it...


** Attachment added: "lubuntu-meta_0.5.debdiff.gz"
   http://launchpadlibrarian.net/32263015/lubuntu-meta_0.5.debdiff.gz

-- 
Minor Lubuntu meta package changes for Karmic beta
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/432664
You received this bug notification because you are a member of Lubuntu,
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Status in “lubuntu-meta” package in Ubuntu: In Progress

Bug description:
Binary package hint: lubuntu-desktop

This bug exists to track, attach an update for, and then close two minor issues 
raised originally by Loic in respect to the Lubuntu-desktop meta package.  This 
includes the inclusion of ubiquity in the desktop seed (this is different from 
the live or installable media seeds), and the current location of the bzr repo 
for Lubuntu, under +junk.  In addition, there is some discussion about changing 
the media player in the seed.  I want to close all these issues together at 
once and already have some preliminary changes done for ubuntu-meta 0.5.  If 
necessary, I will simply close the issues raised by Loic and leave the rest 
alone if no consensus emerges on the media player issue.

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [Bug 432664] Re: Minor Lubuntu meta package changes for Karmic beta

[David Sugar]

I am away in Portland for LinuxCon most of the week, but I had no
further modifications.  If I have a chance, I will try to do so later
tonight or tomorrow, unless you wish to run update and upload the new
version.

Julien Lavergne wrote:
> lxde-icon-theme is now in the archive, any modifications you want to add
> before uploading the 0.5 version of the seed ?
>

-- 
Minor Lubuntu meta package changes for Karmic beta
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/432664
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Status in “lubuntu-meta” package in Ubuntu: In Progress

Bug description:
Binary package hint: lubuntu-desktop

This bug exists to track, attach an update for, and then close two minor issues 
raised originally by Loic in respect to the Lubuntu-desktop meta package.  This 
includes the inclusion of ubiquity in the desktop seed (this is different from 
the live or installable media seeds), and the current location of the bzr repo 
for Lubuntu, under +junk.  In addition, there is some discussion about changing 
the media player in the seed.  I want to close all these issues together at 
once and already have some preliminary changes done for ubuntu-meta 0.5.  If 
necessary, I will simply close the issues raised by Loic and leave the rest 
alone if no consensus emerges on the media player issue.

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Mplayer, Qt4, Lubuntu release date, Modular installer

[David Sugar]

Julien Lavergne wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> For Mplayer / SMplayer, as there is no consensus for switching to
> something else, let's stay with this 2 for Karmic. I'll put them in
> Recommends, so lubuntu-desktop can be installed without this 2. I'll try
> to move Mplayer to universe, but I'm not sure it'll be doable. Let's
> discuss the video player choice after the Karmic release.

Agreed!

> For the release date, there is 2 choices :
> - Stick with Ubuntu schedule and release/freeze at the same time. This
> could be a solution if we want to release the finished Lubuntu in time
> for Karmic+1.
> - Don't follow this schedule and release after. We can do this, but the
> consequence will be to have separate packages for some components, not
> in sync with Ubuntu official packages and repository. A possibility is
> to use the Lubuntu PPA as an extra repository and publish packages when
> it's done. But we need to deal with maintenance, bug reports etc ...
> As a MOTU, I prefer the solution 1, let's publish a preview for Karmic
> and the "real" Lubuntu for Karmic+1.

I prefer #1 also by far...

> For custom installer, I don't like this idea. Because someone need to
> code it, and people can have the same by installing the applications
> they want after the installation of Lubuntu. Most of People using Ubuntu
> and derivate want to have an installation ready "out-of-the-box", they
> don't want to choose between VLC and Mplayer for example. 
> If we want to allow the user to customize his installation and keeping
> the core LXDE in place, it's possible to make all "extra" packages
> (Mplayer, Aqualung etc ...) optional, by making them recommends on the
> lubuntu-desktop package. People will be able to remove Mplayer to
> install VLC, and will keep the lubuntu-desktop and so LXDE core packages
> installed.

We can review moving more things into recommends for this purpose for
Karmic +1.

> 
> Regards,
> Julien Lavergne
> 
> Le samedi 19 septembre 2009 à 12:41 +0800, Mario Behling a écrit :
>> Dear all,
>>
>> I would like to exchange with you some thoughts that came up in an
>> exchange with PCMan concerning using Mplayer, Qt4 and the release date
>> of lubuntu.
>>
>> I agree with PCMan that we should get feedback from the community
>> first before releasing a stable lubuntu. The current lubuntu is
>> already quite good, but there will probably be some bugs that we dont
>> know, besides bugs that we know of e.g. in PCManFM. As PCMan is
>> working on a new version of the file manger, I hope we will be able to
>> include it.
>>
>> Read on below.
>>
>> - Mario
>>
>> -- Forwarded message --
>> From: PCMan
>>
>> Hi all
>> Clearly Mplayer has the best performance on old machines which are the
>> target of Lubuntu.
>> However, the usability of currently available mplayer GUI frontend are
>> quite problematic.
>> SMplayer, although being developed with Qt4, undoubtedly has quite
>> good usability compared with others. Qt4 is not a problem. It's
>> bigger, but it's not very big. Besides, there will be more and more
>> applications written in Qt4 in the future. Denying the use of Qt4 is
>> quite unwise, IMHO. If you can find something that are as good, feel
>> free to replace it. But the problem is, there isn't. The other usable
>> player should be VLC, which is also written in Qt4, too. Xine is yet
>> another solution, but it doesn't have good performance, and the
>> usability is not good, either. So it's good for nothing. Rather than
>> including something that is good for nothing, I'd rather include
>> something that at least give you good usability. This is the
>> rationale.
>>
>> Another concern is, can we postpone the release of Lubuntu? Rather
>> than releasing something new but broken, I'd rather release it when
>> it's really ready. Give the users something that is half-done is not a
>> good way for marketing.
>> I'm confident that Lubuntu will be ready for everyday use at the time
>> of next Ubuntu LTS release. However, if we want to make it for 9.10,
>> we might end up with a broken distro that is problematic. IMHO,
>> keeping it in Alpha or Beta status is more preferable. Then just use
>> 9.10 release to get enough feedback from the users. Things should be
>> ready in Q1, 2010. Then the next LTS will be the right time for first
>> official release of Lubuntu.
>>
>> For application selection, I'd suggest creating a modular installer
>> and let the user choose what they want. This doesn't need to be
>> included in the Ubuntu installer. We can run a app selection wizard at
>> first-time startup. This can be the perfect solution for application
>> selection.
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>> ___
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> 
> 
> ___
> Mailing

Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Mplayer, Qt4, Lubuntu release date, Modular installer

[David Sugar]

I see no reason Lubuntu for Karmic could not be called a beta or preview
 of Lubuntu or similar.

In respect to qt, the toolkit itself is not that large.  One problem is
matching qt themes (fonts, colors, controls) and preferences with gtk.
If we have default settings that match, then I see no problem with this
at all.  As to whether mplayer/smplayer vs vlc vs something else, that
is a different question :).

Mario Behling wrote:
> Dear all,
> 
> I would like to exchange with you some thoughts that came up in an
> exchange with PCMan concerning using Mplayer, Qt4 and the release date
> of lubuntu.
> 
> I agree with PCMan that we should get feedback from the community
> first before releasing a stable lubuntu. The current lubuntu is
> already quite good, but there will probably be some bugs that we dont
> know, besides bugs that we know of e.g. in PCManFM. As PCMan is
> working on a new version of the file manger, I hope we will be able to
> include it.
> 
> Read on below.
> 
> - Mario
> 
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: PCMan
> 
> Hi all
> Clearly Mplayer has the best performance on old machines which are the
> target of Lubuntu.
> However, the usability of currently available mplayer GUI frontend are
> quite problematic.
> SMplayer, although being developed with Qt4, undoubtedly has quite
> good usability compared with others. Qt4 is not a problem. It's
> bigger, but it's not very big. Besides, there will be more and more
> applications written in Qt4 in the future. Denying the use of Qt4 is
> quite unwise, IMHO. If you can find something that are as good, feel
> free to replace it. But the problem is, there isn't. The other usable
> player should be VLC, which is also written in Qt4, too. Xine is yet
> another solution, but it doesn't have good performance, and the
> usability is not good, either. So it's good for nothing. Rather than
> including something that is good for nothing, I'd rather include
> something that at least give you good usability. This is the
> rationale.
> 
> Another concern is, can we postpone the release of Lubuntu? Rather
> than releasing something new but broken, I'd rather release it when
> it's really ready. Give the users something that is half-done is not a
> good way for marketing.
> I'm confident that Lubuntu will be ready for everyday use at the time
> of next Ubuntu LTS release. However, if we want to make it for 9.10,
> we might end up with a broken distro that is problematic. IMHO,
> keeping it in Alpha or Beta status is more preferable. Then just use
> 9.10 release to get enough feedback from the users. Things should be
> ready in Q1, 2010. Then the next LTS will be the right time for first
> official release of Lubuntu.
> 
> For application selection, I'd suggest creating a modular installer
> and let the user choose what they want. This doesn't need to be
> included in the Ubuntu installer. We can run a app selection wizard at
> first-time startup. This can be the perfect solution for application
> selection.
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> ___
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [Bug 432664] Re: Minor Lubuntu meta package changes for Karmic beta

[David Sugar]

Oh, do we also add lxde-setting-daemon?

Julien Lavergne wrote:
> Le vendredi 18 septembre 2009 à 18:01 -0400, David Sugar a écrit :
>> What is the timeframe for this to happen?
>>
> Uploaded, you can make the change to the seed or I'll make it tomorrow.
> 
> Regards,
> Julien Lavergne
>

-- 
Minor Lubuntu meta package changes for Karmic beta
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/432664
You received this bug notification because you are a member of Lubuntu,
which is a direct subscriber.

Status in “lubuntu-meta” package in Ubuntu: In Progress

Bug description:
Binary package hint: lubuntu-desktop

This bug exists to track, attach an update for, and then close two minor issues 
raised originally by Loic in respect to the Lubuntu-desktop meta package.  This 
includes the inclusion of ubiquity in the desktop seed (this is different from 
the live or installable media seeds), and the current location of the bzr repo 
for Lubuntu, under +junk.  In addition, there is some discussion about changing 
the media player in the seed.  I want to close all these issues together at 
once and already have some preliminary changes done for ubuntu-meta 0.5.  If 
necessary, I will simply close the issues raised by Loic and leave the rest 
alone if no consensus emerges on the media player issue.

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [Bug 432664] Re: Minor Lubuntu meta package changes for Karmic beta

[David Sugar]

Julian, I am going to be going to Portland over the weekend, and I do
not see lxde-icon-theme in the archive yet.  So I am going to add it to
the seed, and make sure it still builds under "0.5", but I will hold off
uploading until it is in the archive.  I also need to coordinate with
you relocating the seed and meta branches off +junk :).

Julien Lavergne wrote:
> Le vendredi 18 septembre 2009 à 18:01 -0400, David Sugar a écrit :
>> What is the timeframe for this to happen?
>>
> Uploaded, you can make the change to the seed or I'll make it tomorrow.
> 
> Regards,
> Julien Lavergne
>

-- 
Minor Lubuntu meta package changes for Karmic beta
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/432664
You received this bug notification because you are a member of Lubuntu,
which is a direct subscriber.

Status in “lubuntu-meta” package in Ubuntu: In Progress

Bug description:
Binary package hint: lubuntu-desktop

This bug exists to track, attach an update for, and then close two minor issues 
raised originally by Loic in respect to the Lubuntu-desktop meta package.  This 
includes the inclusion of ubiquity in the desktop seed (this is different from 
the live or installable media seeds), and the current location of the bzr repo 
for Lubuntu, under +junk.  In addition, there is some discussion about changing 
the media player in the seed.  I want to close all these issues together at 
once and already have some preliminary changes done for ubuntu-meta 0.5.  If 
necessary, I will simply close the issues raised by Loic and leave the rest 
alone if no consensus emerges on the media player issue.

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [Bug 432664] Re: Minor Lubuntu meta package changes for Karmic beta

[David Sugar]

What is the timeframe for this to happen?

Julien Lavergne wrote:
> Next lxde-common upload will include a separate binary for the icon
> theme. We need to add lxde-icon-theme to the seed after this.
> 
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[Lubuntu-desktop] [Bug 432664] Re: Minor Lubuntu meta package changes for Karmic beta

[David Sugar]

** Changed in: lubuntu-meta (Ubuntu)
   Status: New => In Progress

** Changed in: lubuntu-meta (Ubuntu)
 Assignee: (unassigned) => David Sugar (dyfet)

-- 
Minor Lubuntu meta package changes for Karmic beta
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/432664
You received this bug notification because you are a member of Lubuntu,
which is a direct subscriber.

Status in “lubuntu-meta” package in Ubuntu: In Progress

Bug description:
Binary package hint: lubuntu-desktop

This bug exists to track, attach an update for, and then close two minor issues 
raised originally by Loic in respect to the Lubuntu-desktop meta package.  This 
includes the inclusion of ubiquity in the desktop seed (this is different from 
the live or installable media seeds), and the current location of the bzr repo 
for Lubuntu, under +junk.  In addition, there is some discussion about changing 
the media player in the seed.  I want to close all these issues together at 
once and already have some preliminary changes done for ubuntu-meta 0.5.  If 
necessary, I will simply close the issues raised by Loic and leave the rest 
alone if no consensus emerges on the media player issue.

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Mplayer and SMplayer problems

[David Sugar]

I did not think there was a significant usability issue in gnome-player
either.  I only had a minor change requested for the seed currently,
related to a different issue, but I wanted to get feedback on whether
this should be changed as well...

Julien Lavergne wrote:
> Le jeudi 17 septembre 2009 à 14:15 +0800, Andrew Lee a écrit :
>> Hi,
>>
>> SMplayer
>> 
>> As far as I remember from the application selections IRC meeting with
>> other LXDE core developers, the SMplayer has been chosen because of the
>> LXDE design principles:
>> "Usability is always the top one concern."
>>
>> Details: http://wiki.lxde.org/en/LXDE_Design_Principles
> Well I don't think there is such bad usability issue with gnome-player.
> I can also see that this choice is against some principle :
> - Only use libraries from other desktops when they are small or
> efficient enough and have few dependencies. (in this case QT)
> - Keep the user interface simple and intuitive. Never design some
> geek-style GUI. (the GUI of gnome-mplayer is much cleaner than the
> SMplayer one IMO).
> 
> Well, I can live with this, but I'm sure there will be some
> interrogations like "Why I need to install QT ?". In fact, there is
> already questions like this on French forums :)
> 
>> Mplayer
>> ---
>> I only know the mplayer is in Debian main which means it would ship with
>> Debian ISO images. Honestly, I have no iea on the status of mplayer
>> package in ubuntu.
> To compare to Debian, the Ubuntu package of Mplayer will be in contrib.
> I think it's mostly a problem with LAME, but I didn't dig to much about
> this issue. I didn't realize that Mplayer is in main for Debian :) 
> 
> Regards,
> Julien Lavergne
> 
> 
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[Lubuntu-desktop] [Blueprint mobile-karmic-lxde-ubuntu-desktop] Build a very lightweight desktop for ubuntu based on lxde

[David Sugar]

Blueprint changed by David Sugar:

Whiteboard changed to:

Work items:
Application selection with community input: DONE
Create Lubuntu seed [1 day]: DONE
Artwork and Ubuntu-izations: DEFERRED

Status:
lubuntu-meta in the archive; binary metapackage in NEW

Artwork:
It is possible artwork may be completed by the community and patched on top of 
one of the existing LXDE package, but also quite possible no additional artwork 
be ready for packaging by the community for Karmic release at all.  There will 
however definitely be a separate lubuntu artwork support package in Karmic +1.

Time estimate:
2 weeks

lool, 2009-06-26: changed to drafting on the request of David Sugar as
he needs to talk to lubuntu people.

dyfet, 2009-06-26: because we are specifying packages for a seed, and
the lubuntu people may have different package selection requirements and
proposals, we need to move this back to draft to coordinate with lubuntu
effort to make sure we don't have different or otherwise conflicting
lxde efforts.

-- 
  Build a very lightweight desktop for ubuntu based on lxde
  
https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-karmic-lxde-ubuntu-desktop

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[Lubuntu-desktop] [Bug 420513] Re: [needs packaging] lubuntu desktop meta

[David Sugar]

** Changed in: ubuntu
   Status: New => In Progress

** Changed in: ubuntu
 Assignee: (unassigned) => David Sugar (dyfet)

-- 
[needs packaging] lubuntu desktop meta
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/420513
You received this bug notification because you are a member of Lubuntu,
which is a direct subscriber.

Status in Ubuntu: In Progress
Status in “pam” package in Debian: Invalid

Bug description:
I have a preliminary seed and meta for this related to Karmic blueprint 
https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-karmic-lxde-ubuntu-desktop 
and this should get uploaded to revu later today.

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Following IRC Meeting 2009-09-06

[David Sugar]

It is worth noting that this is NOT a requirement for inclusion of
Lubuntu in Karmic, but rather has become more about how we should choose
to work as a team going forward.  I happen to favor using a separate
release team in part because other xUbuntu's do so as a matter of
practice and policy.  However, I am quite happy with any of the choices
proposed, and so this is really a question of what we collectively feel
is best for this particular team rather than a matter of what others may do.

Mario Behling wrote:
> Dear all,
> 
> please go to the page for the release management discussion and vote
> for the way for release management.
> 
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/ReleaseManagementDiscussion
> 
> Some suggested to close the lubuntu team out of a worry that we could
> run into commit wars, if there is no control. There was no problem
> until now. At the moment the number of contributors actually working
> on the code is relatively small, but we could potentially have
> challenges with difficult team members in the future is the argument.
> In order to have more people actually contributing we should define
> diferent jobs that need to be done.
> 
> Concerning the closed/open team discussion there are three options now:
> 
> 1. keep the way we work as is, observe how things go and decide when
> there is an issue
> 
> 2. decide to keep the team open and define policies to follow
> 
> 3. decide to make a closed release team
> 
> 
> With any choice we take now, we will still be able to get the seed
> into the repository. There are so called MOTUs, who look if the seeds
> and packages build. The responsibility what is in the seed is the
> teams responsibility. So, the issue here is that we could avoid future
> discussions, if someone does not stick to team decisions. In such
> cases we would of course also have the ability to exclude people as
> well.
> 
> Still, there is the fact, that other teams in Ubuntu work as closed
> teams and according to Canonical members here, it would be an
> advantage to have closed teams.
> 
> Please vote now on the page.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Mario
> 
> 
> On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 12:15 AM, Julien Lavergne wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> To follow the IRC meeting we had on September 06, I pasted the IRC log
>> on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/IRC%20Meeting%20September%2006%2C%
>> 202009
>>
>> One of the main discussion was the management of the release and the
>> seeds. A specific page was set up on
>> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/ReleaseManagementDiscussion
>>
>> Another discussion was the artwork of the future Lubuntu 9.10. We will
>> try to have specific settings and artwork for Lubuntu (different from
>> LXDE).
>>
>> Also, to decide which artwork will be chosen, we decided that people can
>> propose set of artwork, so the community can vote for the best artwork
>> for the next release.
>> Deadline for this :
>> - Final proposals : September 18th
>> - Final vote : September 22th
>>
>> Regards,
>> Julien Lavergne
> 
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[Lubuntu-desktop] Memory benchmarks

[David Sugar]

It was curious to see there was some effort to quantify and publish
memory usage benchmarks for Lubuntu.

http://www.linux-mag.com/cache/7520/1.html
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[Lubuntu-desktop] [Bug 420513] Re: [needs packaging] lubuntu desktop meta

[David Sugar]

> Thanks for making this clear. The goal for lubuntu was from the start to 
> build a strong and broad
> community, that can take care of tasks.  For example Debian packages that 
> have been made
> available during recent months by Andrew Lee and others were also planned and 
> released
> to lay the groundwork for lubuntu.
> How should a formalizing governance look like? Is it necessary at this stage?

With respect to governance, Scott notes we do have a LOT of new faces in
this team, indeed more than I realized.  Yet, and he correctly points
out, we do not have a real procedure for resolving questions or disputes
like what should be in the seed other than "discussing" (or shouting ;)
on the list.  I also note there is a desire to have Lubuntu eventually
become an Ubuntu disto in the sense of things like Xubuntu and Kubuntu.
These goals suggest there should be some governance, and it should
resemble where it exists what other teams do.

I really have only a few suggestions.

First, there should be a separate release team or if you will something
like a "Lubuntu Council" that does manage the seed and meta branches and
hence can resolve what should be in it or any other issues should
disputes actually arise.  I suggest myself, you, Martin Eric, Maybe
Oliver, and Rebentisch initially, at least provisionally to get through
the remainder of the Karmic cycle, and this also gives the project as a
whole some stability going into UDS as well as a little time for the
rest of the community to decide what we really wish to use for
governance going forward and whether this was correct to do or not :).

Second, I suggest given that UDS for Karmic "+1" is likely going to be
in two months, that we draft a new spec for that UDS for/from and most
especially WITH the Lubuntu team and community.  Indeed, it is the
approach of UDS is one reason I think it would be good to establish some
things like governance now rather than to do so later.

Third, I suggest for now a monthly irc schedule we could put up on
Fridge.

-- 
[needs packaging] lubuntu desktop meta
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/420513
You received this bug notification because you are a member of Lubuntu,
which is a direct subscriber.

Status in Ubuntu: New
Status in “pam” package in Debian: New

Bug description:
I have a preliminary seed and meta for this related to Karmic blueprint 
https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-karmic-lxde-ubuntu-desktop 
and this should get uploaded to revu later today.

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[Lubuntu-desktop] [Bug 420513] Re: [needs packaging] lubuntu desktop meta

[David Sugar]

Lol!  While I appreciate the vote of confidence, the goal was NEVER to
have a dictatorship, benevolent or otherwise!

I think what Scott says about some form of formalizing governance is
actually very correct.  However, the meta package (any meta-package
instance) has a "snapshot" instance of the seed; it does not pull or re-
germinate it when it builds.  Hence, as long as it is safe at the time
of submission, a given update of the package will be safe, well, at
least for the current one.  Also, we could setup a separate release
subteam that is not open commit, and have it moved to there.  I think we
should hold a quick IRC meeting in any case to ratify some basic
governance...

-- 
[needs packaging] lubuntu desktop meta
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/420513
You received this bug notification because you are a member of Lubuntu,
which is a direct subscriber.

Status in Ubuntu: New

Bug description:
I have a preliminary seed and meta for this related to Karmic blueprint 
https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-karmic-lxde-ubuntu-desktop 
and this should get uploaded to revu later today.

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[Lubuntu-desktop] [Bug 420513] Re: [needs packaging] lubuntu desktop meta

[David Sugar]

Scott, it was not anticipated there would be spins hosted on Launchpad
for Lubuntu for Karmic, just the meta package.  What happens Karmic +X
though may become a different question.

There is a launchpad team for Lubuntu, and there is a process for
community input through the wiki, but not a formal governance process as
yet, at least in terms of how this is done in other parts of Ubuntu, and
I think it is necessary to do given that there is a clearly expressed
desire in the community to try to have an official Lubuntu distro at
some point in the future.

-- 
[needs packaging] lubuntu desktop meta
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/420513
You received this bug notification because you are a member of Lubuntu,
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Status in Ubuntu: New

Bug description:
I have a preliminary seed and meta for this related to Karmic blueprint 
https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-karmic-lxde-ubuntu-desktop 
and this should get uploaded to revu later today.

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[Lubuntu-desktop] [Bug 420513] Re: [needs packaging] lubuntu desktop meta

[David Sugar]

This really did not get handled correctly at the start of the week as we
were requested to have this in a hurry and then learned after it could
not be sponsored prior to the ffe process.  I have put it in revu to
correct any outstanding issue so that it can at least be properly
evaluated.

http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/lubuntu-meta

The basis of the ffe itself is simply that it is an approved karmic spec
and effects no other packages.

-- 
[needs packaging] lubuntu desktop meta
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/420513
You received this bug notification because you are a member of Lubuntu,
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Status in Ubuntu: New

Bug description:
I have a preliminary seed and meta for this related to Karmic blueprint 
https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-karmic-lxde-ubuntu-desktop 
and this should get uploaded to revu later today.

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[Lubuntu-desktop] [Blueprint mobile-karmic-lxde-ubuntu-desktop] Build a very lightweight desktop for ubuntu based on lxde

[David Sugar]

Blueprint changed by David Sugar:

Whiteboard changed to:

Work items:
Application selection with community input: DONE
Create Lubuntu seed [1 day]: DONE
Artwork & Ubuntu-izations: IN DISCUSSION

Status:
We have a meta ready for A5, pending freeze process.

Time estimate:
2 weeks

lool, 2009-06-26: changed to drafting on the request of David Sugar as
he needs to talk to lubuntu people.

dyfet, 2009-06-26: because we are specifying packages for a seed, and
the lubuntu people may have different package selection requirements and
proposals, we need to move this back to draft to coordinate with lubuntu
effort to make sure we don't have different or otherwise conflicting
lxde efforts.

-- 
  Build a very lightweight desktop for ubuntu based on lxde
  
https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-karmic-lxde-ubuntu-desktop

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[Lubuntu-desktop] [Bug 420513] Re: [needs packaging] lubuntu desktop meta

[David Sugar]

This had to be in this morning, so I only had time to incorporate
Martin-Éric Racine's changes to the meta and seed.  The tarball has the
source, dsc, and changes files needed to build.



** Attachment added: "lubuntu-meta-srcbld.tar.gz"
   http://launchpadlibrarian.net/31123466/lubuntu-meta-srcbld.tar.gz

-- 
[needs packaging] lubuntu desktop meta
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/420513
You received this bug notification because you are a member of Lubuntu,
which is a direct subscriber.

Status in Ubuntu: In Progress

Bug description:
I have a preliminary seed and meta for this related to Karmic blueprint 
https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-karmic-lxde-ubuntu-desktop 
and this should get uploaded to revu later today.

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [Bug 420513] Re: [needs packaging] lubuntu desktop meta

[David Sugar]

I had wanted to get feedback sooner and hence see this done earlier.
Most if not all of these changes noted are certainly valid.   Where we
touch upon what the default apps should be, my only concern is that we
do not have a lot of revs.  If we are going to split the seed to produce
variants of default apps, we should do so now.  If not, I think we
should accept that it will be resolved as a post-Karmic issue and simply
come together to make the best choices we can for this first release.

Julien Lavergne wrote:
> @Martin-Eric
> you should publish a bzr branch and propose to merge with the current one for 
> all the fixes you done. It should be easier than a patch.
> Also, the choice of defaults applications should be discuss separately, the 
> more important for now is to add the package itself to the repository. It's 
> easier to made adjustments after.
> 
> Just a remember, we are in Feature Freeze, so it needs a Freeze
> Exception (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess)
> 
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [Bug 303320] Re: [needs-packaging] lxubuntu-desktop

[David Sugar]

The one I looked at was the unr seed for Jaunty, which incidentally also
builds MID, and has a common component support meta to seed for building
both sets.  That is the same idea and we can certainly restructure a
lubuntu seed set this way also.  Since it was my first attempt at a seed
I simply wanted to keep it simple to get it at least going.

Martin-Éric Racine wrote:
> We really need two lubuntu packages:
> 
> 1) One that only pulls LXDE core components with the lubuntu themes and
> icons.
> 
> 2) A second one that depends on the first and also pulls some standard
> applications e.g. browser, gnumeric, abiword, etc.
> 
> See the way edubuntu, kubuntu and xubuntu have made separate packages
> for themes, core LXDE applications, desktop application e.g. text
> editor, spreadsheet, browser, etc.
> 
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[Lubuntu-desktop] [Bug 420513] [NEW] [needs packaging] lubuntu desktop meta

[David Sugar]

Public bug reported:

I have a preliminary seed and meta for this related to Karmic blueprint
https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-karmic-lxde-ubuntu-
desktop and this should get uploaded to revu later today.

** Affects: ubuntu
 Importance: Undecided
 Assignee: David Sugar (dyfet)
 Status: In Progress


** Tags: needs-packaging

** Changed in: ubuntu
   Status: New => In Progress

** Changed in: ubuntu
 Assignee: (unassigned) => David Sugar (dyfet)

-- 
[needs packaging] lubuntu desktop meta
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/420513
You received this bug notification because you are a member of Lubuntu,
which is a direct subscriber.

Status in Ubuntu: In Progress

Bug description:
I have a preliminary seed and meta for this related to Karmic blueprint 
https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-karmic-lxde-ubuntu-desktop 
and this should get uploaded to revu later today.

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[Lubuntu-desktop] [Bug 303320] Re: [needs-packaging] lxubuntu-desktop

[David Sugar]

I have a working seed and meta package for "lubuntu-desktop", and I am
going to try to upload this to revu later today.

-- 
[needs-packaging] lxubuntu-desktop
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/303320
You received this bug notification because you are a member of Lubuntu,
which is a bug assignee.

Status in “lxde-common” package in Ubuntu: Fix Released

Bug description:
Binary package hint: lxde

LXDE is an ultralightweight desktop, lighter than ubuntu and is suitable for 
pre-P3 computers as well as Apple G3 and G4 series.

We really need to have a comprehensive and self-standing lxubuntu-desktop 
package which pulls *all* packages necessary for the X-windows backend as well 
as LXDE desktop together with useful tools such as abiword, gnumeric and 
kazekahase.

It would be worthwhile to spin off a desktop Live CD, which is *part of the 
ubuntu proper* rather than a spinoff of a previous Ubuntu version

Here I would also request LXDE to be included into the main repository (I will 
file a separate bug report)

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] issues everyone is having with apps lists

[David Sugar]

This is actually very possible to do though seeds.  Seeds are inherited,
so it is very possible to create a single seed that produces something
like this, or any other form of arrangement.  I choose not to initially
in the seed I made in part because it was the first one I did so I
needed to learn how to make one with something simple to start with,
because I thought that might initially further divide people into
subsets of Lubuntu rather than at least starting from a common view of
shared goals, and because I did not want to create any such decision or
specific divisions without any discussion or consensus existing for it
first.  But I had also been thinking of a division much like this.

Andrew Oakley wrote:
> On 14/08/2009, David Sugar  wrote:
>> much said about keeping it very light, I absolutely agree lightweight
>> must NEVER mean shortchanging the user experience in the process.  I
> 
> This is easily to reconcile.
> 
> With Ubuntu Server, you get a choice of which groups of packages you'd
> like to install. So there's a CLI only install, there's a LAMP install
> etc.
> 
> Why not use the same model for Lubuntu?
> 
> Provide, say, three package groups:
> 
> * A basic desktop-only install. I'd suggest some kind of GUI network
> connection manager, terminal, desktop settings configuration tool, and
> a GUI package manager tool (so you can install whatever other packages
> you like). Perhaps it might have a desktop icon to allow sudo users to
> easily install a variety of web browsers, office suites and other
> tools, perhaps also giving advice on minimum/recommended hardware
> requirements for each featured package.
> 
> * A netbook install. Everything the "basic" install has got, plus, I'd
> suggest, Firefox, OpenOffice and Cheese (all netbooks have a webcam,
> we need to demonstrate that the webcam works), PLUS a netbook launcher
> interface.
> 
> * A full-fat install. Everything that the "netbook" install has got,
> but no netbook launcher interface, and then all the packages that the
> normal Desktop Ubuntu install has got. Basically the whole Desktop
> Ubuntu but with LXDE. Some packages might have to be substituted if
> they rely heavily on Gnome.
> 
begin:vcard
fn:David Sugar
n:Sugar;David
org:Canonical
adr:;;United States
email;internet:david.su...@canonical.com
title:Mobile Developer
tel;work:+1 609 465 5336
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:http://www.canonical.com
version:2.1
end:vcard

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] issues everyone is having with apps lists

[David Sugar]

I do actually happen to agree with this also.  While yes there has been
much said about keeping it very light, I absolutely agree lightweight
must NEVER mean shortchanging the user experience in the process.  I
just happen to think it could be possible to try and accomplish both and
thereby produce something that extends the range and reach of Ubuntu
without requiring people to find ways to purchase new hardware they may
not be able to afford, and to experience free software made for human
beings on platforms and hardware profiles that have not been able to
experience this before.  To me that is what lightweight means, not as a
technical challenge to simply make it fit into the absolute skinniest
machine possible, but rather to bring the full experience to users
regardless of the hardware they happen to have available.

Mario Behling wrote:
> Hi Dave,
> 
> I completely agree with your statements. We set our goal. We need to
> talk about how to achieve this goal and pursue this way. It makes
> things rather difficult if we start to talk over the goal and
> different ideas again and again.
> 
> The goal of LXDE is to keep things simple and fast. At the same time
> LXDE offers just what many users need. Lets make a complete distro
> based on this idea.
> 
> I think as the summer holidays is getting to an end we will see this
> project becoming more active again and actually getting things done.
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Mario
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 3:53 AM, dave slaughter 
> wrote:
>> Ok, I realize that I have not been participating as  much as I should be, as
>> I am one the eoriginal members of the Lubuntu Team, but there is a reason
>> for this, and the recent posts have pointed it out, compelling me to post
>> this.
>> I was really happy and excited when more and more people started showing up,
>> and joining the team to get this project really moving. But as time went on,
>> more and more people were saying how this had to be "ultra light" and use
>> "the least amount of resources", but it seems that the more ideas people
>> had, the more they seem to have forgotten what the project started as,
>> "Lubuntu", as in, an Ubuntu derivative, and  the goal was to have this
>> become an official 'Buntu, which would mean it has to be noob friendly, and
>> very easy to use, which means having things like GUI configuration tools,
>> and an easy to use web browser, like Firefox. At one of the meetings someone
>> said the update manager should not be included, and that users could just
>> use the console to update, how would this be in line with the rest of the
>> 'Buntu's? The goal of Ubuntu was to be very easy to use for the newest of
>> users, and bring Linux to the masses, but at every meeting people were
>> saying things like, "the user can install (insert basic program here) if
>> they want it", or, "a gui tool to configure the desktop is not necessary  as
>> you can just edit the config file". How would a new user know how to do
>> this? We have to remember that we are not building a distro for the
>> experienced, or even casual Linux user, we are build for the newest of
>> users, the Ubuntu crowd, who have decided that they have heard so much good
>> things about how easy it is to use, that they decided that maybe it was time
>> to give Linux a try.
>> I think we all need to remember what Ubutnu is, and really think about it,
>> cause we are not building a distro for "us", we are building it for "them".
>> And if it not as easy to use as all the rest of the Ubuntu's, Canonical will
>> never let this be an official 'Buntu.
> 
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fn:David Sugar
n:Sugar;David
org:Canonical
adr:;;United States
email;internet:david.su...@canonical.com
title:Mobile Developer
tel;work:+1 609 465 5336
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:http://www.canonical.com
version:2.1
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] seeds of doom

[David Sugar]

Well, of course, without a seed and meta, there is no proper way to ever
produce or distribute a Lubuntu, however the community chooses to shape
it, or to have anything for people to work on artwork, etc.  So I simply
started from a minimal approach, and of course all the stuff to produce
and modify the seed are in public bzr branches in the team repo.  There
are hard deadlines for Karmic, so a seed had to be made at this point.

Chow Loong Jin wrote:
> On Friday 14,August,2009 01:50 AM, Liam Proven wrote:
>> 2009/8/13 David Sugar :
>>> Blueprint changed by David Sugar:
>>>
>>> Whiteboard changed to:
>>>
>>> Work items:
>>> Application selection with community input: DONE
>> Where "community input" means "ignore any comments and do not engage
>> in any discussion with the community."
>>
>>>  Build a very lightweight desktop for ubuntu based on lxde
>>>  
>>> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-karmic-lxde-ubuntu-desktop
>> Where "very lightweight" means "no lighter than Xubuntu and still
>> requiring a PC recent enough to run Windows XP".
>>
>> Interesting insight into community development, this. Apparently,
>> /community-driven/ means "we will do whatever we felt like doing in
>> the first place and ignore comments, complaints, suggestions or any
>> other input from the mailing lists".
>>
>> So, really, not massively different from, say, Microsoft or anything, then.
>>
>> What a disappointment.
>>
> Thank you for trolling. Surely, when you were writing this e-mail, it
> didn't cross your mind to include references to exactly what you're
> talking about? Please also keep in mind that the community does not
> revolve around you, nor does it consist solely of you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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begin:vcard
fn:David Sugar
n:Sugar;David
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email;internet:david.su...@canonical.com
title:Mobile Developer
tel;work:+1 609 465 5336
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:http://www.canonical.com
version:2.1
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[Lubuntu-desktop] [Blueprint mobile-karmic-lxde-ubuntu-desktop] Build a very lightweight desktop for ubuntu based on lxde

[David Sugar]

Blueprint changed by David Sugar:

Whiteboard changed to:

Work items:
Application selection with community input: DONE
Create Lubuntu seed [1 day]: DONE
Artwork & Ubuntu-izations: TODO

Status:
There is an initial lubuntu meta package in the lubuntu team ppa.

Time estimate:
2 weeks

lool, 2009-06-26: changed to drafting on the request of David Sugar as
he needs to talk to lubuntu people.

dyfet, 2009-06-26: because we are specifying packages for a seed, and
the lubuntu people may have different package selection requirements and
proposals, we need to move this back to draft to coordinate with lubuntu
effort to make sure we don't have different or otherwise conflicting
lxde efforts.

-- 
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https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-karmic-lxde-ubuntu-desktop

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[Lubuntu-desktop] [Blueprint mobile-karmic-lxde-ubuntu-desktop] Build a very lightweight desktop for ubuntu based on lxde

[David Sugar]

Blueprint changed by David Sugar:

Whiteboard changed to:

Work items:
Application selection with community input: DONE
Create Lubuntu seed [1 day]: TODO
Artwork & Ubuntu-izations: TODO

Status:
I now have a preliminary lubuntu.karmic seed that germinates from 
bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop/+junk

Time estimate:
2 weeks

lool, 2009-06-26: changed to drafting on the request of David Sugar as
he needs to talk to lubuntu people.

dyfet, 2009-06-26: because we are specifying packages for a seed, and
the lubuntu people may have different package selection requirements and
proposals, we need to move this back to draft to coordinate with lubuntu
effort to make sure we don't have different or otherwise conflicting
lxde efforts.

-- 
  Build a very lightweight desktop for ubuntu based on lxde
  
https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-karmic-lxde-ubuntu-desktop

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] mission statement

[David Sugar]

David Robert Lewis wrote:
> ...NO, it is the distro which will give low-end users the look and
> feel of Gnome on older kit. It will uplift and uphold the status of
> Ubuntu as one of the leaders in determining the development of Linux in
> the developing world, and it will provide extension to the entire
> project team, from Edubuntu to Xubuntu and so on...

I do like this statement, especially the idea of "Uplifting human beings
and upholding the status of Ubuntu in developing nations" (paraphrasing
and combining with something you later said about Android for Human
Beings...).


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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu project questions - seeds

[David Sugar]

The solution to bandwidth issues in my opinion is NOT to make something
like, for example, Open Office, a part of the seed for Lubuntu spin and
install, but rather something that can be placed on a CD, if a full size
CD media is put together and burned, and optionally installed then
without needing to go remote.  The goal for a default "install" of
Lubuntu I feel strongly should be close to 64M ram/256m disk.  This also
allows for a normal Lubuntu iso image to be on much smaller CD form
factor if so desired.  This is not just about obsolete hardware; there
are new devices being made and sold that would benefit as well.

Hence, at least to me, the question of what should be on a Lubuntu seed,
which I think must be small, and what can be optionally distributed
alongside on full sized media, are entirely different questions.

John Thng wrote:

> We have discussed the problems as before.
> There are mentions previously that people in third world countries are
> living with limited internet bandwidth unlike people in developed
> countries with large or unlimited internet bandwidth.
> 
> Thus, it'll be good if the distro bundled usable applications inside
> instead of the people finding ways on how to download the applications in.
> 
> There should be a compromise point. It is possible to make the spec as
> low as possible, but does it surf the purpose of usability over normal
> people or the distro is purely for geeks to use.
> 
> As for my point of view, it should be light but at the same time,
> usability is important, thus making it a bit different. We don't want
> people in low internet bandwidth hunting for bandwidth to load usable
> daily applications.
> 
> There's a need for compromising. We can't restrict too much till it's a
> geek distro which does not care about the usability. I know there are
> distros putting lightweight apps, but does it solve the usability
> problem with lightweight.
> 
> I'm not sure what the big picture is, but lubuntu should be for
> everyone, young till old, developed or developing countries, and not too
> restrictive to make it hard and user friendly to use too.
> 
> It's pretty sad that some applications are bloated, but do we have the
> choice not to use them, but even if we do have the choice, will the
> usability of the distro be affected much.
> 
> Some might believe that Lubuntu will be the solution for people living
> in developing countries with no/limited bandwidth. Some believe Lubuntu
> should run on old computers in developed countries.
> 
> But I would choose for usable Lubuntu that benefits more people with
> no/limited bandwidth than keeping people with old computers or geeks happy.
> 
> For people with old computers or those lightweight geeks, I think other
> distro might surf better for the purpose.
> 
> And last time during discussion, OpenOffice.org is chosen is because
> compatibility issues and also presentation program. In addition, I do
> think OpenOffice.org would surf as a need to bridge those in developing
> countries to the world.
> 
> Regards
> John Thng
> 
> 
> 
> 
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[Lubuntu-desktop] [Blueprint mobile-karmic-lxde-ubuntu-desktop] Build a very lightweight desktop for ubuntu based on lxde

[David Sugar]

Blueprint changed by David Sugar:

Whiteboard changed to:

Work Items:
Application Selection with Community Input: DONE
Lubuntu Seed Creation: TODO
Art Work & Ubuntuizations: TODO

Time estimate:
2 weeks

lool, 2009-06-26: changed to drafting on the request of David Sugar as
he needs to talk to lubuntu people.

dyfet, 2009-06-26: because we are specifying packages for a seed, and
the lubuntu people may have different package selection requirements and
proposals, we need to move this back to draft to coordinate with lubuntu
effort to make sure we don't have different or otherwise conflicting
lxde efforts.

-- 
  Build a very lightweight desktop for ubuntu based on lxde
  
https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-karmic-lxde-ubuntu-desktop

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[Lubuntu-desktop] [Blueprint mobile-karmic-lxde-ubuntu-desktop] Build a very lightweight desktop for ubuntu based on lxde

[David Sugar]

Blueprint changed by David Sugar:

Whiteboard changed to:

Current Efforts:

Application Selection with Community Input: DONE
Lubuntu Seed Creation: TODO
Art Work & Ubuntuizations: TODO

Time estimate:
2 weeks

lool, 2009-06-26: changed to drafting on the request of David Sugar as
he needs to talk to lubuntu people.

dyfet, 2009-06-26: because we are specifying packages for a seed, and
the lubuntu people may have different package selection requirements and
proposals, we need to move this back to draft to coordinate with lubuntu
effort to make sure we don't have different or otherwise conflicting
lxde efforts.

-- 
  Build a very lightweight desktop for ubuntu based on lxde
  
https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-karmic-lxde-ubuntu-desktop

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu Project Q's

[David Sugar]

The problem with each of these documents is that they do not offer the
clarity of statement that a simple and direct FAQ would.  And I authored
one of the documents mentioned here :).  Questions that come to mind are
things like:

1) What is the mission of Lubuntu

2) What are the baseline system requirements

To which I would like to suggest 64m ram/256m disk, and 800x576
resolution (hence covering old traditional 800x600 and netbook
1024x576...) as both a goal and challenge for this team...

etc...

Something like that is what I had meant about the need for a FAQ.

Dallas Wiebelhaus wrote:
> It may Also benefit you to read what's already in place:
> 
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu
> 
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Specs/UbuntuLxdeDesktop
> 
> http://www.lxde.org/
> 
> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-karmic-lxde-ubuntu-desktop
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 3:49 PM, David Sugar  <mailto:david.su...@canonical.com>> wrote:
> 
> Perhaps this offers an opportunity for someone to put together an
> initial Lubuntu "FAQ" on the wiki...
> 
> jon york wrote:
> > Alright, not that I want to start any E-fights, but I do believe these
> > are serious questions that need to be answered
> >
> > in any project, there needs to be a driving reason behind it other
> then
> > "because", also, there needs to be a reason for people to try it, and
> > switch, or else this project will eventually fail.
> >
> > in light of this, here are my questions
> >
> > 1- what will Lubuntu offer that any other version of *buntu does
> not offer?
> > 2- what kind of performance increase shall we see with Lubuntu?
> > 3- what is our geographic and demographic target?
> > 4- is Lxde ready for its own *Buntu variant?
> > 5- how will Lubuntu compared to Xubuntu in terms of GB install, Ram
> > usage, performance and functionality?
> > 6- what is the projected usage curve for this project?
> >
> > these are hard questions to answer, however they do need to be
> > addressed. I own a computer repair and sale company in Canada, and
> I and
> > currently in university studying accounting and marketing.
> regardless of
> > how we feel about it, we are competing for market share with countless
> > Linux's including which many variants, official or not of Ubuntu. Is
> > this system competing against all distro's? Xubuntu only? Ubuntu and
> > Xubuntu? #!? or is it a system that will be aimed for the Windows/mac
> > user to switch.
> >
> > Jon York
> >
> >
> >
> 
> >
> > ___
> > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop
> <https://launchpad.net/%7Elubuntu-desktop>
> > Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net
> <mailto:lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net>
> > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop
> <https://launchpad.net/%7Elubuntu-desktop>
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> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu Project Q's

[David Sugar]

Perhaps this offers an opportunity for someone to put together an
initial Lubuntu "FAQ" on the wiki...

jon york wrote:
> Alright, not that I want to start any E-fights, but I do believe these
> are serious questions that need to be answered
> 
> in any project, there needs to be a driving reason behind it other then
> "because", also, there needs to be a reason for people to try it, and
> switch, or else this project will eventually fail.
> 
> in light of this, here are my questions
> 
> 1- what will Lubuntu offer that any other version of *buntu does not offer?
> 2- what kind of performance increase shall we see with Lubuntu?
> 3- what is our geographic and demographic target?
> 4- is Lxde ready for its own *Buntu variant?
> 5- how will Lubuntu compared to Xubuntu in terms of GB install, Ram
> usage, performance and functionality?
> 6- what is the projected usage curve for this project?
> 
> these are hard questions to answer, however they do need to be
> addressed. I own a computer repair and sale company in Canada, and I and
> currently in university studying accounting and marketing. regardless of
> how we feel about it, we are competing for market share with countless
> Linux's including which many variants, official or not of Ubuntu. Is
> this system competing against all distro's? Xubuntu only? Ubuntu and
> Xubuntu? #!? or is it a system that will be aimed for the Windows/mac
> user to switch.
> 
> Jon York
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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[Lubuntu-desktop] [Blueprint mobile-karmic-lxde-ubuntu-desktop] Build a very lightweight desktop for ubuntu based on lxde

[David Sugar]

You are now subscribed to the blueprint mobile-karmic-lxde-ubuntu-
desktop - Build a very lightweight desktop for ubuntu based on lxde.

--
  
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu could end up like Xubuntu (Heavy & Slow)

[David Sugar]

This question is also tied to the goal of shortening overall system boot
time for Ubuntu, so I think there is both active work in that area which
may help address this already, and whatever is separately learned here
may well apply to the rest of Ubuntu as well.

Ed Hewitt wrote:
> Apart from choosing the right applications for the distro, the other
> thing we need to think about is background services. Xubuntu major
> problems is the amount of background services it has. On a standard
> install of Xubuntu, there is about 90 processes when you boot to the
> desktop for the first time, in Ubuntu there is 103. On my install of
> Ubuntu minimal + LXDE there is 85. It seems quite high compared to
> Windows XP which is around 20 to 25 and Windows Vista which is around 40.
> 
> There is a problem here which i believe we need to address. I try and
> solve the problem by installing BUM and using the services manager in
> Ubuntu, but you can only turn on/off about 15-20 services. We need to
> look into the core of Ubuntu and see what services are necessary and
> which ones we can remove. I am guessing there are some server services
> which come with ubuntu minimal which we could remove, since they will be
> not necessary for a desktop experience.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu could end up like Xubuntu (Heavy & Slow)

[David Sugar]

Related to this question is what to do with what is currently the
separate lxde blueprint in Launchpad:

https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-karmic-lxde-ubuntu-desktop

I would be happy to see about transferring it to the Lubuntu Team if the
Lubuntu team does wish to formally take it over...

In any case, yes, I also think the key is finding the right reasonable
mix.

Ed Hewitt wrote:
> I think we should go with Firefox. However, OpenOffice would solve the
> problem of having no presentation software if we went with Abiword &
> Gnumeric. We could use these tweaks to speed up OpenOffice. >>>
> http://lifehacker.com/software/optimization/speed-up-openoffice-270775.php
> 
> By going "small", we will achieve the objective of achieving a
> lightweight distro. However, I still think a good out of the box
> experience, as long as we keep it to a minimal. So by having a few basic
> utilities (such as synaptic), need a few must have apps (such as web
> browser, office apps, chat, media player). we can still achieve a user
> friend lightweight distro. Its all about getting the right balance.
> 
> Maybe another Lubuntu IRC Meeting could be useful to discuss my points.
> It would be great to have an application list set in time for Karmic.
> Could be Lubuntu's first release
> 
> -- 
> www.edhewitt.co.uk 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] going small

[David Sugar]

Absolutely.  Not including something does not prevent someone from
adding something later if they want or need it.  I think the "base" seed
should be as small as practical.

Dallas Wiebelhaus wrote:
> I vote go small , if someone wants songbird or Firefox or liferea or
> pidgin let them fetch it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu could end up like Xubuntu (Heavy & Slow)

[David Sugar]

I agree that xubuntu is not lightweight and app selection is key to
this, especially for those that will always execute.  I think something
like connman or wics would be a better choice than network manager for
Lubuntu.  The gnome power management stuff I recall is already
undergoing a radical size reduction, so that issue may solve itself.

jon york wrote:
> Hi guys, completely agree with all of this, but first i think is to
> determine what we want our market to be. Do we want to be out of the
> box, forget about needed to install something to make it "usable" (ie:
> flash, codecs) or do we want to be a bare minimum speedy OS. either way,
> i like both ideas, but we do need to determine what we wish to be and go
> for it. Il admit, i am ignorant of the rules or objectives we need to
> meet to be a ubuntu derivative, and we must adhere to that, But Mr. Ed
> Hewitt brings up some very valid points,
> 
> I have been selling linux based computers for years now, and I have a
> good idea of what people want either way.
> 
> Jon York
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: wiebelh...@gmail.com
> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:49:44 -0500
> To: lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net
> Subject: Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu could end up like Xubuntu (Heavy
> & Slow)
> 
> Ed Hewitt makes some very good points , Something to look at would be
> the Fluxbuntu project the 7.10 Version was amazing because it was very
> very slim nothing except the essentials installed but it also retained
> the availability of all those other apps by using the official
> repositories. I don't think anyone has to worry about something missing
> because the people that would be drawn to Lubuntu would certinaly be
> savvy enough to fetch it for themselves.
> 
> What's good isn't always golden , I agree with the minilmist idea that
> Ed Hewitt proposed here.
> 
> Cheers!.
> 
> Dallas Wiebelhaus.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 12:40 PM, Ed Hewitt
> mailto:edwardahew...@googlemail.com>> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I'm Ed Hewitt (chewit in IRC). I have just joined the Lubuntu team
> in Launchpad, I am very keen to give you help with the Lubuntu
> project. I have been using Xubuntu since 7.10 release, and over the
> years Xubuntu has been getting heavier and slower after each
> release. This has been down two things. First, the Ubuntu developers
> adding more applications and utilies to improve the usability of the
> operating system. Secondly, Xubuntu is just Ubuntu with Xfce 'bolted
> on'. No thought has gone into using as little gnome depencies as
> possible. These two points have made Xubuntu heavy and slow, and not
> a lightweight distro. It is very close to being as heavy as Ubuntu!
> 
> My worry with the Lubuntu project is that when it becomes an
> official Ubuntu distro, it will have loads of extra apps added which
> will make it slow and heavy like Xubuntu. It will be a waste your
> time creating a distro which went the same way as Xubuntu. I am
> writing this message to warn you that it could happen. I want to
> join the Lubuntu and help decide the best applications to add to the
> operating systems and ways to make it as light as possible.
> 
> I have looked at the Lubuntu application list and I am already
> concerned with the success of the project. It appears Lubuntu will
> have more applications installed than the Ubuntu install!
> 
> The best way I see Lubuntu being setup is to carefully follow the
> way Debian is created, since Debain is very lightweight. I believe
> it is best to use the Ubuntu minimal install with LXDE added on,
> then we add a carefully selection of applications. Such as:
> 
> * Web browser - Firefox
> * Email - Claws
> * Chat - Pidgin, Xchat
> * Office - Abiword, Gnumeric, ePDF
> * Media - Totem, Rhythmbox (would like to use VLC, but it uses QT4)
> * GIMP
> * Synaptic & Update Manager is a must
> * Gnome network manager (need good network support, however it
>   needs to start on boot up)
> * Some Xfce apps - Notifyd (very nice notification system),
>   taskmanager (but could use lxde task), power manager
> 
> We want to keep the apps list small, basic apps which most people
> will use. Video editing, ftp clients and programming apps are not
> needed on the base install. If we add loads of apps, we will be a
> heavy distro. With Lubuntu its performance and lightweight first,
> sadly xubuntu forgot about that.
> 
> Would like to hear what the whole team thinks and if I can be some
> help in the development of Lubuntu.
> 
> -- 
> www.edhewitt.co.uk 
> 
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> 
>