[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata
Michael Schaeffer actually recorded the A-major Conradi suite. I am fortuned to a have his CD - recorded from the 70's actually, he died in a care accident in a young age. Walter Gerwig had a long illness and refused western medicine intervention, because of his religious believe. I hope I did not start an other quarrel on the list. Normally I just listen, delete and practice the B- lute as much as my body can hold up Hermann Sadly it was also his last. He was already very ill during the recording and he died a few moths later. LvS Op 12 jan 2010, om 23:13 heeft Eugene C. Braig IV het volgende geschreven: Michael Schäffer recorded one Conradi suit along with Reusner on the German side of the LP and Gallot and DuFault on the French side. I think that was way back in the late '70s. It was a great early effort. Best, Eugene There are more Conradi recordings: Neue Lautenstuecke Lutenist: Rainer Waldeck ww.earlymusic.com The Baroque Lute Sony CB621 Lutenist: Eugen Dombois Regards Albert TREE EDITION - Music for the Lute - Albert Reyerman Finkenberg 89 23558 Luebeck Germany web:[1]www.Tree-Edition.com mailto: [2]albertreyer...@kabelmail.de phone: ++49(0)451- 899 78 48 - Werden Sie Mitglied bei der Deutschen Lautengesellschaft. Join The German Lute Society [3]www.lautengesellschaft.de - Daniel Winheld schrieb: Ed Martin has learned quite a bit about the multiple Conradis- and has recorded them as well. Perhaps he will weigh in here on this, unless it was already dealt with and may be in the archives. Dan I didn't know Conradi's music so thanks for sharing these beautiful pieces. I'd love to hear that Barto's bootleg! I looked at the New Grove Dictionary of Music and found there are two Conradi. Based on the publication date you give (1724), I guess these works are from Johann Melchior, son of Johann Georg, both Kapellmeisters at Oettingen. Nonetheless, the New Grove doesn't mention any lute works by them... -- References 1. http://www.Tree-Edition.com/ 2. mailto:albertreyer...@kabelmail.de 3. http://www.lautengesellschaft.de/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: constructive critical commentary
Well, the two lines of the paired course have a different inner space (had to say inner space) at every plucking point. Depending on the width of the strings, the string length and the taper of the two lines there are optimal points acoustically--depending on where you pluck--which can be worked out. The movement mass has a small effect as well--that is, the threshold to get the sound going. Another way to look at it is if you have a spacing of 4.8mm at the bridge, and you play over the rose, you are looking at maybe 4mm space, which is essentially an instrument with different spacing. If your string pairs are in certain zones, you will get more splats due to inteference patterns. If the pairs are adjusted with very few of these nodes, you will get mostly round sounds. All of the adjustments affect the volume and the sound of the notes. dt At 11:09 PM 1/11/2010, you wrote: What exactly do you mean by optimized for tone and playability? Mark -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Im Auftrag von David Tayler Gesendet: Dienstag, 12. Januar 2010 01:20 An: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu Betreff: [LUTE] Re: constructive critical commentary I think one could offer constructive commentary that is a bit more pointed that was of a statistical nature that might be helpful. For example, one can say that out of say 500 videos 50 percent of the lutes do not have the string spacing optimized for tone and playability But even this is sort of bordering on direct criticsim. dt At 04:08 PM 1/11/2010, you wrote: I appreciate it when people point out mistakes, but it has to be handled well. For example, there are some videos where people are playing something twice as fast or twice as slow, double or half timing. Now it is obvious in this case that the player is not aware of it, and one *might* send a personal email alerting someone, or then again, not! If I had a glaring error I would probably take the video down and be grateful, or in some cases if it is just a wrong note I would leave it up and say, hey, I played a wrong note. On the other hand, most professional recordings of Dowland's Lachrimae and Johnson's Almaine have a mistake in the second bar--parallel fifths--and there really is no point in commenting or correcting this even in an email, although could post for example a corrected edition or start a discussion topic on the issue--without mentioning any names. No one is aware of all they mistakes they might make, at least as far as I can tell. For some younger or preprofessional players I occasionally consider mentioning some things that might prevent employment, but I have to say the reception for such information, however well--intentioned, is invariably tundra-esque. When I was starting out, I definitely appreciated people mentioning things like that, but I was trying to make a living and that puts you in a different frame of mind. The point is, there is first of all a privacy issue and second of all a colleague issue. When in doubt, say nothing at all. d At 01:31 AM 1/11/2010, you wrote: There seem to be several subject headers around dealing with what this, I'll stick to this one. I've had my fair share of lessons and I teach. Lessons or commentary from fellow students at a conservatory are not for people with a fragile ego, but all comments are fair. People know what they talk about, can clearly hear and see what's wrong with your playing and will say so. And it's good they do, for that's the only way to become better. The point is the comments are fair and made by people with knowledge. Not everybody posting comments on YouTube is fair or knows what he/she is writing about. Or, if I play a concert, people come to me and say they liked. it. Of course I'm flattered, but what did they like? Probably something completely different from what I tried to put into the music. That's no problem, but the same is true with criticism: what it is they didn't like, is not always a valid point for me. I might lose some of my audience, but I cannot please everybody. It is important to know who is saying something, to be able to judge it well. I had a little girl of six in my audience last Wednesday who thought it was utterly boring what I was doing, but her sister of eight just loved it. Not because of the music, but because I am her guitar teacher, I waved to her during the concert and was playing _such_ a funny guitar! She had a great time despite the boring music. Now for us commenting on each other's YouTube videos. Valery made the point he knows what's there to improve in his playing and he doesn't need to be reminded (sorry if I oversimplify his statement or have it wrong. It is a point I want to make that actually does not need Valery's playing, it is not about his playing at all, but the example was conveniently at hand). Sorry, Valery, perhaps you don't, because I think if you really did know what
[LUTE] Re: three more Lute Lessons
Thank you - thats really is fascinating. I was watching William Christie's video of Landi's Il Santo Alessio last night and suddenly realized that the baroque guitarist in that is left handed. Not sure which of the two lutenists listed in the notes it is. Monica - Original Message - From: David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com To: Lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:25 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: three more Lute Lessons On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 2:45 PM, Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: able to see close up exactly what the right and left hands are doing. Make that left and right ... ;-) maybe the next time you have a spare weekend you could do one or two baroque guitar pieces. I'm sure there are better b-guitar players out there. On renaissance lute I feel confident I can show 'how it's done', for what that is worth, obviously, whereas on b-guitar I can just show how I happen to do it. Anyway, here are two where I do play baroque guitar: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FH1rEJKJB8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xJN9-8RIiw But this might not be what you were looking for ... David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: constructive critical commentary
spaced wide enough to played without strings slapping together. RT - Original Message - From: Mark Wheeler l...@pantagruel.de To: 'David Tayler' vidan...@sbcglobal.net; 'lute-cs.dartmouth.edu' lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 2:09 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: constructive critical commentary What exactly do you mean by optimized for tone and playability? Mark -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Im Auftrag von David Tayler Gesendet: Dienstag, 12. Januar 2010 01:20 An: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu Betreff: [LUTE] Re: constructive critical commentary I think one could offer constructive commentary that is a bit more pointed that was of a statistical nature that might be helpful. For example, one can say that out of say 500 videos 50 percent of the lutes do not have the string spacing optimized for tone and playability But even this is sort of bordering on direct criticsim. dt At 04:08 PM 1/11/2010, you wrote: I appreciate it when people point out mistakes, but it has to be handled well. For example, there are some videos where people are playing something twice as fast or twice as slow, double or half timing. Now it is obvious in this case that the player is not aware of it, and one *might* send a personal email alerting someone, or then again, not! If I had a glaring error I would probably take the video down and be grateful, or in some cases if it is just a wrong note I would leave it up and say, hey, I played a wrong note. On the other hand, most professional recordings of Dowland's Lachrimae and Johnson's Almaine have a mistake in the second bar--parallel fifths--and there really is no point in commenting or correcting this even in an email, although could post for example a corrected edition or start a discussion topic on the issue--without mentioning any names. No one is aware of all they mistakes they might make, at least as far as I can tell. For some younger or preprofessional players I occasionally consider mentioning some things that might prevent employment, but I have to say the reception for such information, however well--intentioned, is invariably tundra-esque. When I was starting out, I definitely appreciated people mentioning things like that, but I was trying to make a living and that puts you in a different frame of mind. The point is, there is first of all a privacy issue and second of all a colleague issue. When in doubt, say nothing at all. d At 01:31 AM 1/11/2010, you wrote: There seem to be several subject headers around dealing with what this, I'll stick to this one. I've had my fair share of lessons and I teach. Lessons or commentary from fellow students at a conservatory are not for people with a fragile ego, but all comments are fair. People know what they talk about, can clearly hear and see what's wrong with your playing and will say so. And it's good they do, for that's the only way to become better. The point is the comments are fair and made by people with knowledge. Not everybody posting comments on YouTube is fair or knows what he/she is writing about. Or, if I play a concert, people come to me and say they liked. it. Of course I'm flattered, but what did they like? Probably something completely different from what I tried to put into the music. That's no problem, but the same is true with criticism: what it is they didn't like, is not always a valid point for me. I might lose some of my audience, but I cannot please everybody. It is important to know who is saying something, to be able to judge it well. I had a little girl of six in my audience last Wednesday who thought it was utterly boring what I was doing, but her sister of eight just loved it. Not because of the music, but because I am her guitar teacher, I waved to her during the concert and was playing _such_ a funny guitar! She had a great time despite the boring music. Now for us commenting on each other's YouTube videos. Valery made the point he knows what's there to improve in his playing and he doesn't need to be reminded (sorry if I oversimplify his statement or have it wrong. It is a point I want to make that actually does not need Valery's playing, it is not about his playing at all, but the example was conveniently at hand). Sorry, Valery, perhaps you don't, because I think if you really did know what is there to improve and how to improve it, you'd change it within weeks or months. One of my first videos had too many funny faces, grimaces. I withdrew it. My debut Baroque lute videos of last weekend received kind comments, I thank you all, but I know my tone has to improve, not all is quite steady and some ornaments were downright sloppy. Many of the lute players on YouTube play not legato enough. Or should we blame their microphones? Many don't hold notes to give them their 'proper' length, or is that debatable? Anyway, do I tell them directly? No, because I don't know them. I teach real people.
[LUTE] Re: constructive critical commentary
Franz, I like your style. On this list we tend to spend all day repeatedly talking until we're blue in the face about trivial matters such as gut vs. nylgut, whether one is allowed to perform 8 course lute music on a 10 course, which temperament is HIPest, etc, etc. Good. These are things that effect performance. But what we rarely discuss is actually playing the lute: dissecting that sort of thing seems to be hands off territory. I'm a little disturbed that there are so many folks who seem to regard performance as ancillary to these other matters. That's a good way to kill off the lute. Chris P.S. I understand - there are a lot of people playing just for fun on the list and discussing these matters can be painful if its not done in a respectful way. If criticism is done tastefully, it should lead to greater enjoyment in one's own playing. --- On Tue, 1/12/10, Franz Mechsner franz.mechs...@northumbria.ac.uk wrote: From: Franz Mechsner franz.mechs...@northumbria.ac.uk Subject: [LUTE] Re: constructive critical commentary To: David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net, lute-cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 1:55 AM I think, most of the remarks here are very tasteful, but I am not hundred percent happy how strongly they defend the usual not-saying-anything. Why not extend the borders, getting a little used to a more honest exchange? After all, silence means that nothing is said... Recently, somebody said angrily to me in a discussion, my style of speaking was self-righteous. My immediate reaction was actually and of course tundra-esk, in particular my inside reaction, mainly occupied with some problems that guy might have with understanding my (of course always benevolent) intention, and, given there was something right in his remark, how harshly he expressed his impression about me and what this tells about him and I would surely not connect again to him... But honestly, his remark worked inside me for ome days (and probably dreams), and now I have learned something important, happy that he simply expressed his anger about my style. I have to be thankful and I am - and we connected well again, in a good and open spirit. I think the problem with saying not so agreable things is a problem of discussion culture, we are not used to it and so it appears over-dimensional and really puts us off. But so what? Is that so terrible? For my part, I much appreciate that being polite and sensitive is important, but I do not want work through a list of conditions and constraints before I am open and honest... and should certainly not expect that from others. I think if you do you almost never will speak out and almost never would accept anything from others... I think one should take some risk regarding speaking, and take into serious consideration what others say - let it work, it will only improve your mind in the end, independent of the degree you accept it in the end, independent of how politely the person uttered the stuff, independent of if the person is able to do better etc. etc. Of course, being silent spares you a lot of trouble... I have a sensitive but nice colleague who has (IMHO) a ridiculously boasting website... I never told him so far, but work on how to do one day, because I do not wish him to be exposed in this way... Cheers and thanks Franz Dr. Franz Mechsner Hanse Institute for Advanced Study Lehmkuhlenbusch 4 D-27753 Delmenhorst/Bremen GERMANY E-mail: [1]franz.mechs...@unn.ac.uk Phone: +49 (0)4221 9160-215 Fax: +49 (0)4221 9160-179 __ Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu im Auftrag von David Tayler Gesendet: Di 12.01.2010 01:08 An: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu Betreff: [LUTE] Re: constructive critical commentary I appreciate it when people point out mistakes, but it has to be handled well. For example, there are some videos where people are playing something twice as fast or twice as slow, double or half timing. Now it is obvious in this case that the player is not aware of it, and one *might* send a personal email alerting someone, or then again, not! If I had a glaring error I would probably take the video down and be grateful, or in some cases if it is just a wrong note I would leave it up and say, hey, I played a wrong note. On the other hand, most professional recordings of Dowland's Lachrimae and Johnson's Almaine have a mistake in the second bar--parallel fifths--and there really is no point in commenting or correcting this even in an email, although could post for example a corrected edition or start a discussion topic on the issue--without
[LUTE] Re: Odd problem with the list
On Jan 12, 2010, at 1:13 AM, Martin Eastwell wrote: I've recently noticed that I seem to be missing the original posts on a number of threads. The giveaway is that I get a lot of messages beginning with Re: but no sign of the original post. For example, the current thread entitled Conradi Sonata. And yes, I've checked my spam box! Has anyone else had this problem? Is there anything I can do about it? Yes, I'm using Mail on a Mac and I have Organize by Threads checked in the view menu. In my case, the original message is usually there, I just often forget to look for it. Or, more often, I'll see a post, write a reply and then find a dozen other responses that other people had already posted saying the same thing I said. I, of course, didn't see them because I'm working my way through my email chronologically and for some reason the original post isn't kept together with all the Re posts. (I thought that is what Organize by Threads is supposed to do). The solution is to View by Subject. Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan [1]edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp [2]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- References 1. mailto:edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp 2. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] A new phBB forum of lute
http://musicdowlandia.darkbb.com/index.htm enjoy Paolo To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: constructive critical commentary
chriswi...@yahoo.com schrieb: Franz, I like your style. On this list we tend to spend all day repeatedly talking until we're blue in the face about trivial matters such as gut vs. nylgut, whether one is allowed to perform 8 course lute music on a 10 course, which temperament is HIPest, etc, etc. I for one joined the list so as to read these discussions among people who are non-profs like me. Hasten to add that I appreciate prof comments. But the thing is, profs are making a living, that's probably why they tend to come to the point more quickly, tend to say things more comprehensively, tend to state things obvious to them without chapter and verse, tend to distinguish important (profitable) from unimportant. I enjoy reading other people's opinions as regards all aspects of the lute, as far as their statements do not come down to judgements and mere taste. But what we rarely discuss is actually playing the lute: dissecting that sort of thing seems to be hands off territory. Why don't you just have a go? I mean, I cannot really imagine how to _discuss_ my playing with others. I can post videos and wait for comments. I can post video answers (which I did) if I disagree with others about the performance of certain pieces of music. But how can I discuss playing itself. It's not hands-off, I simply don't know how to. -- Mathias To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata
Hi! A Google search on Conradi's name came up with this http://www.the-orb.net/bibliographies/st-john_bib.html 44. Author: Dithmar, Justus Christoph, 1677-1737. Vertot, abbe de, 1655-1735. Title:Geschichte des ritterlichen Johanniter-Orden : und dessen Herren-Meisterthums in der Marck, Sachsen, Pommern und Wendland / von Justus Christoph Dithmar ... Geschichte des Johanniter-Orden. Place:Franckfurth an der Oder : Publisher:Bey Johann Gottfried Conradi, Date: 1728. I think it is a bibliography about the Knights of St John. Conradi's name is given as a publisher of item 44 in the list. If this is right, I wonder what else he published? No reason a publisher should not compose lute music, of course! Best wishes martin On 11/1/10 17:31, Daniel Winheld dwinh...@comcast.net wrote: Ed Martin has learned quite a bit about the multiple Conradis- and has recorded them as well. Perhaps he will weigh in here on this, unless it was already dealt with and may be in the archives. Dan I didn't know Conradi's music so thanks for sharing these beautiful pieces. I'd love to hear that Barto's bootleg! I looked at the New Grove Dictionary of Music and found there are two Conradi. Based on the publication date you give (1724), I guess these works are from Johann Melchior, son of Johann Georg, both Kapellmeisters at Oettingen. Nonetheless, the New Grove doesn't mention any lute works by them... -- End of Forwarded Message To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Odd problem with the list
Thanks Ed! In fact I'm using Microsoft Entourage on my Mac, which does keep the Re: posts together with the original message. It also allows you to search for the keywords in the subject-Conradi in the case I gave, and I definitely am missing the original post in this, and a number of other cases. When I get time, I'll try setting Apple Mail up to access my mail and see if it does any better! Martin On 12/1/10 13:32, Ed Durbrow edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp wrote: On Jan 12, 2010, at 1:13 AM, Martin Eastwell wrote: I've recently noticed that I seem to be missing the original posts on a number of threads. The giveaway is that I get a lot of messages beginning with Re: but no sign of the original post. For example, the current thread entitled Conradi Sonata. And yes, I've checked my spam box! Has anyone else had this problem? Is there anything I can do about it? Yes, I'm using Mail on a Mac and I have Organize by Threads checked in the view menu. In my case, the original message is usually there, I just often forget to look for it. Or, more often, I'll see a post, write a reply and then find a dozen other responses that other people had already posted saying the same thing I said. I, of course, didn't see them because I'm working my way through my email chronologically and for some reason the original post isn't kept together with all the Re posts. (I thought that is what Organize by Threads is supposed to do). The solution is to View by Subject. Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp [1]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- End of Forwarded Message -- References 1. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata
Martin, That is true, that Conradi published books on a most varied list of subjects, such as law, medicine, botany, church history, etc. This particular book is one of them. I saw, a year ago, another book listed as having been published by Conradi. ed At 08:40 AM 1/12/2010, Martin Eastwell wrote: Hi! A Google search on Conradi's name came up with this http://www.the-orb.net/bibliographies/st-john_bib.html 44. Author: Dithmar, Justus Christoph, 1677-1737. Vertot, abbe de, 1655-1735. Title:Geschichte des ritterlichen Johanniter-Orden : und dessen Herren-Meisterthums in der Marck, Sachsen, Pommern und Wendland / von Justus Christoph Dithmar ... Geschichte des Johanniter-Orden. Place:Franckfurth an der Oder : Publisher:Bey Johann Gottfried Conradi, Date: 1728. I think it is a bibliography about the Knights of St John. Conradi's name is given as a publisher of item 44 in the list. If this is right, I wonder what else he published? No reason a publisher should not compose lute music, of course! Best wishes martin On 11/1/10 17:31, Daniel Winheld dwinh...@comcast.net wrote: Ed Martin has learned quite a bit about the multiple Conradis- and has recorded them as well. Perhaps he will weigh in here on this, unless it was already dealt with and may be in the archives. Dan I didn't know Conradi's music so thanks for sharing these beautiful pieces. I'd love to hear that Barto's bootleg! I looked at the New Grove Dictionary of Music and found there are two Conradi. Based on the publication date you give (1724), I guess these works are from Johann Melchior, son of Johann Georg, both Kapellmeisters at Oettingen. Nonetheless, the New Grove doesn't mention any lute works by them... -- End of Forwarded Message To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute
[LUTE] Re: Odd problem with the list
Yes, I'm using Mail on a Mac and I have Organize by Threads not sure mail has 'thread's, thats a term I recall from usenet news. that software dual purpose? 'subject line' compares to 'thread' for purpose, but is the term for email. -- Dana Emery To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: constructive critical commentary
Spaced wide enough or narrow enough, there are several ways to go. d At 03:46 AM 1/12/2010, you wrote: spaced wide enough to played without strings slapping together. RT - Original Message - From: Mark Wheeler l...@pantagruel.de To: 'David Tayler' vidan...@sbcglobal.net; 'lute-cs.dartmouth.edu' lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 2:09 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: constructive critical commentary What exactly do you mean by optimized for tone and playability? Mark -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Im Auftrag von David Tayler Gesendet: Dienstag, 12. Januar 2010 01:20 An: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu Betreff: [LUTE] Re: constructive critical commentary I think one could offer constructive commentary that is a bit more pointed that was of a statistical nature that might be helpful. For example, one can say that out of say 500 videos 50 percent of the lutes do not have the string spacing optimized for tone and playability But even this is sort of bordering on direct criticsim. dt At 04:08 PM 1/11/2010, you wrote: I appreciate it when people point out mistakes, but it has to be handled well. For example, there are some videos where people are playing something twice as fast or twice as slow, double or half timing. Now it is obvious in this case that the player is not aware of it, and one *might* send a personal email alerting someone, or then again, not! If I had a glaring error I would probably take the video down and be grateful, or in some cases if it is just a wrong note I would leave it up and say, hey, I played a wrong note. On the other hand, most professional recordings of Dowland's Lachrimae and Johnson's Almaine have a mistake in the second bar--parallel fifths--and there really is no point in commenting or correcting this even in an email, although could post for example a corrected edition or start a discussion topic on the issue--without mentioning any names. No one is aware of all they mistakes they might make, at least as far as I can tell. For some younger or preprofessional players I occasionally consider mentioning some things that might prevent employment, but I have to say the reception for such information, however well--intentioned, is invariably tundra-esque. When I was starting out, I definitely appreciated people mentioning things like that, but I was trying to make a living and that puts you in a different frame of mind. The point is, there is first of all a privacy issue and second of all a colleague issue. When in doubt, say nothing at all. d At 01:31 AM 1/11/2010, you wrote: There seem to be several subject headers around dealing with what this, I'll stick to this one. I've had my fair share of lessons and I teach. Lessons or commentary from fellow students at a conservatory are not for people with a fragile ego, but all comments are fair. People know what they talk about, can clearly hear and see what's wrong with your playing and will say so. And it's good they do, for that's the only way to become better. The point is the comments are fair and made by people with knowledge. Not everybody posting comments on YouTube is fair or knows what he/she is writing about. Or, if I play a concert, people come to me and say they liked. it. Of course I'm flattered, but what did they like? Probably something completely different from what I tried to put into the music. That's no problem, but the same is true with criticism: what it is they didn't like, is not always a valid point for me. I might lose some of my audience, but I cannot please everybody. It is important to know who is saying something, to be able to judge it well. I had a little girl of six in my audience last Wednesday who thought it was utterly boring what I was doing, but her sister of eight just loved it. Not because of the music, but because I am her guitar teacher, I waved to her during the concert and was playing _such_ a funny guitar! She had a great time despite the boring music. Now for us commenting on each other's YouTube videos. Valery made the point he knows what's there to improve in his playing and he doesn't need to be reminded (sorry if I oversimplify his statement or have it wrong. It is a point I want to make that actually does not need Valery's playing, it is not about his playing at all, but the example was conveniently at hand). Sorry, Valery, perhaps you don't, because I think if you really did know what is there to improve and how to improve it, you'd change it within weeks or months. One of my first videos had too many funny faces, grimaces. I withdrew it. My debut Baroque lute videos of last weekend received kind comments, I thank you all, but I know my tone has to improve, not all is quite steady and some ornaments were downright sloppy. Many of the lute players on YouTube play not legato enough. Or should we blame their microphones? Many don't hold notes to give them their 'proper' length, or is
[LUTE] Re: constructive critical commentary
Some of us do it by simply playing standard instruments with neck firmly planted in left hand. Eugene -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Bernd Haegemann Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:56 AM To: Lute; Jean-Marie Poirier Subject: [LUTE] Re: constructive critical commentary Thank you ever so much, Franz ! We, lefties, had to wait all these years But how do you do it? Do you also rewrite the tablatures so that they run from right to left? I always watch your youtube clips in a little mirror because otherwise it would confuse me.. Best wishes B To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: constructive critical commentary
Ah, now I see. 62Konrad! It must be a 47 year old German lurker on this list. I believe some of you have met him/her in cyberspace, as his name crops up ever so often. Anyway, for a good example of constructive critisism have a look his remarks at one of my videos. Benign, to judge by remarks he has made to others in the past. Here's to be found what he wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t93ZI56Vts4feature=email For those of you less versed in German: it's about my pinky, my joints, and I should take an example of Paul O'Dette. David On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 7:26 PM, David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Spaced wide enough or narrow enough, there are several ways to go. d At 03:46 AM 1/12/2010, you wrote: spaced wide enough to played without strings slapping together. RT - Original Message - From: Mark Wheeler l...@pantagruel.de To: 'David Tayler' vidan...@sbcglobal.net; 'lute-cs.dartmouth.edu' lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 2:09 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: constructive critical commentary What exactly do you mean by optimized for tone and playability? Mark -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Im Auftrag von David Tayler Gesendet: Dienstag, 12. Januar 2010 01:20 An: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu Betreff: [LUTE] Re: constructive critical commentary I think one could offer constructive commentary that is a bit more pointed that was of a statistical nature that might be helpful. For example, one can say that out of say 500 videos 50 percent of the lutes do not have the string spacing optimized for tone and playability But even this is sort of bordering on direct criticsim. dt At 04:08 PM 1/11/2010, you wrote: I appreciate it when people point out mistakes, but it has to be handled well. For example, there are some videos where people are playing something twice as fast or twice as slow, double or half timing. Now it is obvious in this case that the player is not aware of it, and one *might* send a personal email alerting someone, or then again, not! If I had a glaring error I would probably take the video down and be grateful, or in some cases if it is just a wrong note I would leave it up and say, hey, I played a wrong note. On the other hand, most professional recordings of Dowland's Lachrimae and Johnson's Almaine have a mistake in the second bar--parallel fifths--and there really is no point in commenting or correcting this even in an email, although could post for example a corrected edition or start a discussion topic on the issue--without mentioning any names. No one is aware of all they mistakes they might make, at least as far as I can tell. For some younger or preprofessional players I occasionally consider mentioning some things that might prevent employment, but I have to say the reception for such information, however well--intentioned, is invariably tundra-esque. When I was starting out, I definitely appreciated people mentioning things like that, but I was trying to make a living and that puts you in a different frame of mind. The point is, there is first of all a privacy issue and second of all a colleague issue. When in doubt, say nothing at all. d At 01:31 AM 1/11/2010, you wrote: There seem to be several subject headers around dealing with what this, I'll stick to this one. I've had my fair share of lessons and I teach. Lessons or commentary from fellow students at a conservatory are not for people with a fragile ego, but all comments are fair. People know what they talk about, can clearly hear and see what's wrong with your playing and will say so. And it's good they do, for that's the only way to become better. The point is the comments are fair and made by people with knowledge. Not everybody posting comments on YouTube is fair or knows what he/she is writing about. Or, if I play a concert, people come to me and say they liked. it. Of course I'm flattered, but what did they like? Probably something completely different from what I tried to put into the music. That's no problem, but the same is true with criticism: what it is they didn't like, is not always a valid point for me. I might lose some of my audience, but I cannot please everybody. It is important to know who is saying something, to be able to judge it well. I had a little girl of six in my audience last Wednesday who thought it was utterly boring what I was doing, but her sister of eight just loved it. Not because of the music, but because I am her guitar teacher, I waved to her during the concert and was playing _such_ a funny guitar! She had a great time despite the boring music. Now for us commenting on each other's YouTube videos. Valery made the point he knows what's there to improve in his playing and he doesn't need to be reminded (sorry if I oversimplify his statement or have it wrong. It is a point I want to make
[LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata
Michael Schäffer recorded one Conradi suit along with Reusner on the German side of the LP and Gallot and DuFault on the French side. I think that was way back in the late '70s. It was a great early effort. Best, Eugene -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of albertreyer...@kabelmail.de Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 1:49 PM To: Daniel Winheld Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata There are more Conradi recordings: Neue Lautenstuecke Lutenist: Rainer Waldeck ww.earlymusic.com The Baroque Lute Sony CB621 Lutenist: Eugen Dombois Regards Albert TREE EDITION - Music for the Lute - Albert Reyerman Finkenberg 89 23558 Luebeck Germany web:[1]www.Tree-Edition.com mailto: [2]albertreyer...@kabelmail.de phone: ++49(0)451- 899 78 48 - Werden Sie Mitglied bei der Deutschen Lautengesellschaft. Join The German Lute Society [3]www.lautengesellschaft.de - Daniel Winheld schrieb: Ed Martin has learned quite a bit about the multiple Conradis- and has recorded them as well. Perhaps he will weigh in here on this, unless it was already dealt with and may be in the archives. Dan I didn't know Conradi's music so thanks for sharing these beautiful pieces. I'd love to hear that Barto's bootleg! I looked at the New Grove Dictionary of Music and found there are two Conradi. Based on the publication date you give (1724), I guess these works are from Johann Melchior, son of Johann Georg, both Kapellmeisters at Oettingen. Nonetheless, the New Grove doesn't mention any lute works by them... -- References 1. http://www.Tree-Edition.com/ 2. mailto:albertreyer...@kabelmail.de 3. http://www.lautengesellschaft.de/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata
Sadly it was also his last. He was already very ill during the recording and he died a few moths later. LvS Op 12 jan 2010, om 23:13 heeft Eugene C. Braig IV het volgende geschreven: Michael Schäffer recorded one Conradi suit along with Reusner on the German side of the LP and Gallot and DuFault on the French side. I think that was way back in the late '70s. It was a great early effort. Best, Eugene -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of albertreyer...@kabelmail.de Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 1:49 PM To: Daniel Winheld Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata There are more Conradi recordings: Neue Lautenstuecke Lutenist: Rainer Waldeck ww.earlymusic.com The Baroque Lute Sony CB621 Lutenist: Eugen Dombois Regards Albert TREE EDITION - Music for the Lute - Albert Reyerman Finkenberg 89 23558 Luebeck Germany web:[1]www.Tree-Edition.com mailto: [2]albertreyer...@kabelmail.de phone: ++49(0)451- 899 78 48 - Werden Sie Mitglied bei der Deutschen Lautengesellschaft. Join The German Lute Society [3]www.lautengesellschaft.de - Daniel Winheld schrieb: Ed Martin has learned quite a bit about the multiple Conradis- and has recorded them as well. Perhaps he will weigh in here on this, unless it was already dealt with and may be in the archives. Dan I didn't know Conradi's music so thanks for sharing these beautiful pieces. I'd love to hear that Barto's bootleg! I looked at the New Grove Dictionary of Music and found there are two Conradi. Based on the publication date you give (1724), I guess these works are from Johann Melchior, son of Johann Georg, both Kapellmeisters at Oettingen. Nonetheless, the New Grove doesn't mention any lute works by them... -- References 1. http://www.Tree-Edition.com/ 2. mailto:albertreyer...@kabelmail.de 3. http://www.lautengesellschaft.de/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: constructive critical commentary
Makes me cringe, feeling secondhand embarrassment. So sorry, David. Seems to be a troll. He or she commented similarly on Arto's video (Gehema 1r-2r). Mathias David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com schrieb: Ah, now I see. 62Konrad! It must be a 47 year old German lurker on this list. I believe some of you have met him/her in cyberspace, as his name crops up ever so often. Anyway, for a good example of constructive critisism have a look his remarks at one of my videos. Benign, to judge by remarks he has made to others in the past. Here's to be found what he wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t93ZI56Vts4feature=email For those of you less versed in German: it's about my pinky, my joints, and I should take an example of Paul O'Dette. David On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 7:26 PM, David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Spaced wide enough or narrow enough, there are several ways to go. d At 03:46 AM 1/12/2010, you wrote: spaced wide enough to played without strings slapping together. RT - Original Message - From: Mark Wheeler l...@pantagruel.de To: 'David Tayler' vidan...@sbcglobal.net; 'lute-cs.dartmouth.edu' lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 2:09 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: constructive critical commentary What exactly do you mean by optimized for tone and playability? Mark -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Im Auftrag von David Tayler Gesendet: Dienstag, 12. Januar 2010 01:20 An: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu Betreff: [LUTE] Re: constructive critical commentary I think one could offer constructive commentary that is a bit more pointed that was of a statistical nature that might be helpful. For example, one can say that out of say 500 videos 50 percent of the lutes do not have the string spacing optimized for tone and playability But even this is sort of bordering on direct criticsim. dt At 04:08 PM 1/11/2010, you wrote: I appreciate it when people point out mistakes, but it has to be handled well. For example, there are some videos where people are playing something twice as fast or twice as slow, double or half timing. Now it is obvious in this case that the player is not aware of it, and one *might* send a personal email alerting someone, or then again, not! If I had a glaring error I would probably take the video down and be grateful, or in some cases if it is just a wrong note I would leave it up and say, hey, I played a wrong note. On the other hand, most professional recordings of Dowland's Lachrimae and Johnson's Almaine have a mistake in the second bar--parallel fifths--and there really is no point in commenting or correcting this even in an email, although could post for example a corrected edition or start a discussion topic on the issue--without mentioning any names. No one is aware of all they mistakes they might make, at least as far as I can tell. For some younger or preprofessional players I occasionally consider mentioning some things that might prevent employment, but I have to say the reception for such information, however well--intentioned, is invariably tundra-esque. When I was starting out, I definitely appreciated people mentioning things like that, but I was trying to make a living and that puts you in a different frame of mind. The point is, there is first of all a privacy issue and second of all a colleague issue. When in doubt, say nothing at all. d At 01:31 AM 1/11/2010, you wrote: There seem to be several subject headers around dealing with what this, I'll stick to this one. I've had my fair share of lessons and I teach. Lessons or commentary from fellow students at a conservatory are not for people with a fragile ego, but all comments are fair. People know what they talk about, can clearly hear and see what's wrong with your playing and will say so. And it's good they do, for that's the only way to become better. The point is the comments are fair and made by people with knowledge. Not everybody posting comments on YouTube is fair or knows what he/she is writing about. Or, if I play a concert, people come to me and say they liked. it. Of course I'm flattered, but what did they like? Probably something completely different from what I tried to put into the music. That's no problem, but the same is true with criticism: what it is they didn't like, is not always a valid point for me. I might lose some of my audience, but I cannot please everybody. It is important to know who is saying something, to be able to judge it well. I had a little girl of six in my audience last Wednesday who thought it was utterly boring what I was doing, but her sister of eight just loved it. Not because of the music, but because I am her guitar teacher, I waved to her during the concert and
[LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata
Sad indeed. Not Conradi, but I also like how he handled Haydn. Eugene -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Lex van Sante Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 5:39 PM To: lute mailing list list Subject: [LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata Sadly it was also his last. He was already very ill during the recording and he died a few moths later. LvS Op 12 jan 2010, om 23:13 heeft Eugene C. Braig IV het volgende geschreven: Michael Schäffer recorded one Conradi suite along with Reusner on the German side of the LP and Gallot and DuFault on the French side. I think that was way back in the late '70s. It was a great early effort. Best, Eugene -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of albertreyer...@kabelmail.de Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 1:49 PM To: Daniel Winheld Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata There are more Conradi recordings: Neue Lautenstuecke Lutenist: Rainer Waldeck ww.earlymusic.com The Baroque Lute Sony CB621 Lutenist: Eugen Dombois Regards Albert TREE EDITION - Music for the Lute - Albert Reyerman Finkenberg 89 23558 Luebeck Germany web:[1]www.Tree-Edition.com mailto: [2]albertreyer...@kabelmail.de phone: ++49(0)451- 899 78 48 - Werden Sie Mitglied bei der Deutschen Lautengesellschaft. Join The German Lute Society [3]www.lautengesellschaft.de - Daniel Winheld schrieb: Ed Martin has learned quite a bit about the multiple Conradis- and has recorded them as well. Perhaps he will weigh in here on this, unless it was already dealt with and may be in the archives. Dan I didn't know Conradi's music so thanks for sharing these beautiful pieces. I'd love to hear that Barto's bootleg! I looked at the New Grove Dictionary of Music and found there are two Conradi. Based on the publication date you give (1724), I guess these works are from Johann Melchior, son of Johann Georg, both Kapellmeisters at Oettingen. Nonetheless, the New Grove doesn't mention any lute works by them... -- References 1. http://www.Tree-Edition.com/ 2. mailto:albertreyer...@kabelmail.de 3. http://www.lautengesellschaft.de/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: constructive critical commentary
David, The word schrecklich is rarely helpful in constructive criticism. It may only be used correctly in brutally honest criticism, but not in your case! Nice job. Chris --- On Tue, 1/12/10, David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com wrote: From: David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com Subject: [LUTE] Re: constructive critical commentary To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 5:04 PM Ah, now I see. 62Konrad! It must be a 47 year old German lurker on this list. I believe some of you have met him/her in cyberspace, as his name crops up ever so often. Anyway, for a good example of constructive critisism have a look his remarks at one of my videos. Benign, to judge by remarks he has made to others in the past. Here's to be found what he wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t93ZI56Vts4feature=email For those of you less versed in German: it's about my pinky, my joints, and I should take an example of Paul O'Dette. David On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 7:26 PM, David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Spaced wide enough or narrow enough, there are several ways to go. d At 03:46 AM 1/12/2010, you wrote: spaced wide enough to played without strings slapping together. RT - Original Message - From: Mark Wheeler l...@pantagruel.de To: 'David Tayler' vidan...@sbcglobal.net; 'lute-cs.dartmouth.edu' lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 2:09 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: constructive critical commentary What exactly do you mean by optimized for tone and playability? Mark -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Im Auftrag von David Tayler Gesendet: Dienstag, 12. Januar 2010 01:20 An: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu Betreff: [LUTE] Re: constructive critical commentary I think one could offer constructive commentary that is a bit more pointed that was of a statistical nature that might be helpful. For example, one can say that out of say 500 videos 50 percent of the lutes do not have the string spacing optimized for tone and playability But even this is sort of bordering on direct criticsim. dt At 04:08 PM 1/11/2010, you wrote: I appreciate it when people point out mistakes, but it has to be handled well. For example, there are some videos where people are playing something twice as fast or twice as slow, double or half timing. Now it is obvious in this case that the player is not aware of it, and one *might* send a personal email alerting someone, or then again, not! If I had a glaring error I would probably take the video down and be grateful, or in some cases if it is just a wrong note I would leave it up and say, hey, I played a wrong note. On the other hand, most professional recordings of Dowland's Lachrimae and Johnson's Almaine have a mistake in the second bar--parallel fifths--and there really is no point in commenting or correcting this even in an email, although could post for example a corrected edition or start a discussion topic on the issue--without mentioning any names. No one is aware of all they mistakes they might make, at least as far as I can tell. For some younger or preprofessional players I occasionally consider mentioning some things that might prevent employment, but I have to say the reception for such information, however well--intentioned, is invariably tundra-esque. When I was starting out, I definitely appreciated people mentioning things like that, but I was trying to make a living and that puts you in a different frame of mind. The point is, there is first of all a privacy issue and second of all a colleague issue. When in doubt, say nothing at all. d At 01:31 AM 1/11/2010, you wrote: There seem to be several subject headers around dealing with what this, I'll stick to this one. I've had my fair share of lessons and I teach. Lessons or commentary from fellow students at a conservatory are not for people with a fragile ego, but all comments are fair. People know what they talk about, can clearly hear and see what's wrong with your playing and will say so. And it's good they do, for that's the only way to become better. The point is the comments are fair and made by people with knowledge. Not everybody posting comments on YouTube is fair or knows what he/she is writing about. Or, if I play a concert, people come to me and say they liked. it. Of course I'm flattered, but what did they like? Probably something completely different from what I tried to put into the music. That's no problem, but the same is true with criticism: what it is they didn't like, is not always a valid point for me. I might lose some of my audience, but I cannot please everybody. It is important to know who is saying something,
[LUTE] MP3 English Lute Duet Library
A collection of classic english lute duets by Kneji Sano Jinke Nosa, freely downloadable: http://www.emclute.com/download/luteduo/index.html Enjoy M. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
