[LUTE] Re: planetary tuners

[jslute]

   Howard and All,
I've had the tuners on my cittern since about 2010 and they've worked
   perfectly the entire time.
   Jim Stimson


   On 02/13/17, howard posner wrote:

   I asked:
   > Have these things been around long enough that we can talk about
   their durability?
   Ed Martin answered:
   > I have had them for 4 years, no breakdown thus far.
   So is that yes, no, or maybe?
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

References

   1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/

[LUTE] Re: planetary tuners

[howard posner]

I asked:

> Have these things been around long enough that we can talk about their 
> durability?


Ed Martin answered:

> I have had them for 4 years, no breakdown thus far.

So is that yes, no, or maybe?



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: planetary tuners

[Lute List]

A musician friend of mine, who majored in physics in college,
wrote a song: 
  "Between atrophy and entropy we haven't got a chance … "
I think that applies here ,
  Tom 

Tom Draughon
Heartistry Music
www.heartistry.com
714 9th Ave. W.
Ashland, WI  54806
715-682-9362




On Feb 12, 2017, at 12:08 PM, John Mardinly  wrote:

>   So my suspicion that it could drive you nuts was well founded. Sounds
>   like you may be an under-appreciated hero to Lutedom.
> 
>   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
>   Retired Principal Materials Nanoanalysis Engineer
> 
>   On Feb 12, 2017, at 7:33 AM, LSA Lute Rental Program
>   <[1]lsaluteren...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>   John,
>   You are quite right and that would do much to solve the roundness
>   problem.  But my other problem is that the rental lutes are stored in 3
>   places across the US and since they are rentals they are rented out to
>   people.  This means we don't have access to the lutes because they are
>   in the hands of the renters...sometimes for several years at a time.
>   There are lutes in the collection that I have never even seen in person
>   much less put my hands on so I can do things like you suggest.  That is
>   why I wish I could put PegHedz on them all--because I can't care for
>   the friction pegs and even though I may ask renters to do so they are
>   renters and not owners and sometimes their motivation to be thorough in
>   care is, well, somewhat diminished to put it mildly.  I also think
>   renters would benefit from them as, to me, tuning is much easier and
>   for people who are renting (this almost always means they are new to
>   the lute--which is why they are renting) it would be, in my opinion, a
>   benefit.
>   But this is all just theoretical since we don't have the money it costs
>   to replace the pegs.  So we will live with what we have and I will deal
>   with peg problems as they come up.
>   Michael
>   Michael M. Grant, PhD
>   Director, Lute Rental Program
>   Member, Board of Directors
>   [uc?id9TJhsqVKmGMNWhuR19WWXJYQU0export=download]
>   [2]www.lutesocietyofamerica.org
>   On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 11:46 PM, John Mardinly
>   <[3]john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote:
> 
>   Michael;
>   With standard pegs, they won't go out of round if you maintain them
>   properly. That means loosening the peg by turning it and pulling out a
>   bit so that there is just light pressure between the wooden parts. That
>   compensates for the dimensional changes caused by humidity changes. Of
>   course that throws the instrument out of tune, which means you might
>   need to re-tune it, and if you have 42 lutes……you will need extra
>   staff, medical marijuana or psychiatric treatment.
>   However, you probably already know this.
>   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
>   Retired Principal Materials Nanoanalysis Engineer
> 
>   On Feb 11, 2017, at 5:32 PM, LSA Lute Rental Program
>   <[4]lsaluteren...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> About once a year the topic of planetary tuners comes up on this
> listserve.   People weigh in for and against, sometimes (like last
> year) the discussion gets overheated as some who are against cite
> historical authenticity and other factors as reasons against and
>   those
> who are for them cite the "make it easy on yourself--adopt modern
> methods" position to support their use.
> Then, after the dust settles, we discover we are pretty much evenly
> split for and against and the issue dies down only to rise again in
>   12
> months.
> For those who do not wish to use planetary tuners, the most notable
> example of which is PegHedz, their best approach is not to use them.
> For those, like me, who have used them and like them very much
>   indeed,
> the best approach is to keep using them.   I have 42 instruments in
>   the
> LSA's lute rental collection and if I had the money to do so I would
> install PegHedz on every single one.   The LSA neither supports nor
> does not support the use of any particular tuner, including friction
> pegs or planetary tuners such as PegHedz.   I am only telling you
>   that
> I think they are such a valuable resource that I would put them on
>   all
> the lutes if it could be afforded.   It can't so I won't.   But if I
> did it would forever eliminate the problem that aging lutes have of
> pegs that become out of round and needing replacing or retooling.
>   It
> would also make tuning much easier for beginners--but that is just my
> opinion.
> So it seems best for us to use what we like as tuners and focus on
>   the
> music we make with the strings.   Let us all continue to make
>   beautiful
> music no matter what method we use to tension our strings.
> Michael
> On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 5:53 PM Charles Mokotoff
> <[1][5]mokot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>  Seems we are about 50/50 split on the peghedz...
>  FWIW, I have used this device:
>   

[LUTE] Re: planetary tuners

[John Mardinly]

   So my suspicion that it could drive you nuts was well founded. Sounds
   like you may be an under-appreciated hero to Lutedom.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   Retired Principal Materials Nanoanalysis Engineer

   On Feb 12, 2017, at 7:33 AM, LSA Lute Rental Program
   <[1]lsaluteren...@gmail.com> wrote:

   John,
   You are quite right and that would do much to solve the roundness
   problem.  But my other problem is that the rental lutes are stored in 3
   places across the US and since they are rentals they are rented out to
   people.  This means we don't have access to the lutes because they are
   in the hands of the renters...sometimes for several years at a time.
   There are lutes in the collection that I have never even seen in person
   much less put my hands on so I can do things like you suggest.  That is
   why I wish I could put PegHedz on them all--because I can't care for
   the friction pegs and even though I may ask renters to do so they are
   renters and not owners and sometimes their motivation to be thorough in
   care is, well, somewhat diminished to put it mildly.  I also think
   renters would benefit from them as, to me, tuning is much easier and
   for people who are renting (this almost always means they are new to
   the lute--which is why they are renting) it would be, in my opinion, a
   benefit.
   But this is all just theoretical since we don't have the money it costs
   to replace the pegs.  So we will live with what we have and I will deal
   with peg problems as they come up.
   Michael
   Michael M. Grant, PhD
   Director, Lute Rental Program
   Member, Board of Directors
   [uc?id9TJhsqVKmGMNWhuR19WWXJYQU0export=download]
   [2]www.lutesocietyofamerica.org
   On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 11:46 PM, John Mardinly
   <[3]john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote:

   Michael;
   With standard pegs, they won't go out of round if you maintain them
   properly. That means loosening the peg by turning it and pulling out a
   bit so that there is just light pressure between the wooden parts. That
   compensates for the dimensional changes caused by humidity changes. Of
   course that throws the instrument out of tune, which means you might
   need to re-tune it, and if you have 42 lutes……you will need extra
   staff, medical marijuana or psychiatric treatment.
   However, you probably already know this.
   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   Retired Principal Materials Nanoanalysis Engineer

   On Feb 11, 2017, at 5:32 PM, LSA Lute Rental Program
   <[4]lsaluteren...@gmail.com> wrote:

 About once a year the topic of planetary tuners comes up on this
 listserve.   People weigh in for and against, sometimes (like last
 year) the discussion gets overheated as some who are against cite
 historical authenticity and other factors as reasons against and
   those
 who are for them cite the "make it easy on yourself--adopt modern
 methods" position to support their use.
 Then, after the dust settles, we discover we are pretty much evenly
 split for and against and the issue dies down only to rise again in
   12
 months.
 For those who do not wish to use planetary tuners, the most notable
 example of which is PegHedz, their best approach is not to use them.
 For those, like me, who have used them and like them very much
   indeed,
 the best approach is to keep using them.   I have 42 instruments in
   the
 LSA's lute rental collection and if I had the money to do so I would
 install PegHedz on every single one.   The LSA neither supports nor
 does not support the use of any particular tuner, including friction
 pegs or planetary tuners such as PegHedz.   I am only telling you
   that
 I think they are such a valuable resource that I would put them on
   all
 the lutes if it could be afforded.   It can't so I won't.   But if I
 did it would forever eliminate the problem that aging lutes have of
 pegs that become out of round and needing replacing or retooling.
   It
 would also make tuning much easier for beginners--but that is just my
 opinion.
 So it seems best for us to use what we like as tuners and focus on
   the
 music we make with the strings.   Let us all continue to make
   beautiful
 music no matter what method we use to tension our strings.
 Michael
 On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 5:53 PM Charles Mokotoff
 <[1][5]mokot...@gmail.com> wrote:
  Seems we are about 50/50 split on the peghedz...
  FWIW, I have used this device:
   [1][2][6]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-
   3A__www.amazon.com_Ernie-2DBall-2DPowerpeg-2DBattery-
   2DPowered_dp_=DQIBAg=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU=
   MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ=NIRfj-
   oODuubeNdT31nk3d6Py8Hum4Es2kpGPoRLDp4=Z3rK7eE8clhRRlhovKEvSBAiguoaVa
   ubyu-ARWOJktY=
   B0019H
  6750/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8=8-1&
  to get around the tedium of string changing, 

[LUTE] Re: planetary tuners

[LSA Lute Rental Program]

   John,
   You are quite right and that would do much to solve the roundness
   problem.   But my other problem is that the rental lutes are stored in
   3 places across the US and since they are rentals they are rented out
   to people.   This means we don't have access to the lutes because they
   are in the hands of the renters...sometimes for several years at a
   time.   There are lutes in the collection that I have never even seen
   in person much less put my hands on so I can do things like you
   suggest.   That is why I wish I could put PegHedz on them all--because
   I can't care for the friction pegs and even though I may ask renters to
   do so they are renters and not owners and sometimes their motivation to
   be thorough in care is, well, somewhat diminished to put it mildly.   I
   also think renters would benefit from them as, to me, tuning is much
   easier and for people who are renting (this almost always means they
   are new to the lute--which is why they are renting) it would be, in my
   opinion, a benefit.
   But this is all just theoretical since we don't have the money it costs
   to replace the pegs.   So we will live with what we have and I will
   deal with peg problems as they come up.
   Michael

   Michael M. Grant, PhD
   Director, Lute Rental Program
   Member, Board of Directors
   [uc?id=0B9TJhsqVKmGMNWhuR19WWXJYQU0export=download]
   [1]www.lutesocietyofamerica.org
   On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 11:46 PM, John Mardinly
   <[2]john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote:

   Michael;
   With standard pegs, they won't go out of round if you maintain them
   properly. That means loosening the peg by turning it and pulling out a
   bit so that there is just light pressure between the wooden parts. That
   compensates for the dimensional changes caused by humidity changes. Of
   course that throws the instrument out of tune, which means you might
   need to re-tune it, and if you have 42 lutesâ¦â¦you will need extra
   staff, medical marijuana or psychiatric treatment.
   However, you probably already know this.
   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   Retired  Principal Materials Nanoanalysis Engineer

   On Feb 11, 2017, at 5:32 PM, LSA Lute Rental Program
   <[3]lsaluteren...@gmail.com> wrote:

  About once a year the topic of planetary tuners comes up on this
  listserve.People weigh in for and against, sometimes (like last
  year) the discussion gets overheated as some who are against cite
  historical authenticity and other factors as reasons against and
   those
  who are for them cite the "make it easy on yourself--adopt modern
  methods" position to support their use.
  Then, after the dust settles, we discover we are pretty much evenly
  split for and against and the issue dies down only to rise again in
   12
  months.
  For those who do not wish to use planetary tuners, the most notable
  example of which is PegHedz, their best approach is not to use them.
  For those, like me, who have used them and like them very much
   indeed,
  the best approach is to keep using them.I have 42 instruments in
   the
  LSA's lute rental collection and if I had the money to do so I would
  install PegHedz on every single one.The LSA neither supports nor
  does not support the use of any particular tuner, including friction
  pegs or planetary tuners such as PegHedz.I am only telling you
   that
  I think they are such a valuable resource that I would put them on
   all
  the lutes if it could be afforded.It can't so I won't.But if
   I
  did it would forever eliminate the problem that aging lutes have of
  pegs that become out of round and needing replacing or retooling.
It
  would also make tuning much easier for beginners--but that is just
   my
  opinion.
  So it seems best for us to use what we like as tuners and focus on
   the
  music we make with the strings.Let us all continue to make
   beautiful
  music no matter what method we use to tension our strings.
  Michael
  On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 5:53 PM Charles Mokotoff
  <[1][4]mokot...@gmail.com> wrote:
Seems we are about 50/50 split on the peghedz...
FWIW, I have used this device:
  [1][2][5]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-
   3A__www.amazon.com_Ernie-2DBall-2DPowerpeg-2DBattery-
   2DPowered_dp_=DQIBAg=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU=
   MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ=NIRfj-
   oODuubeNdT31nk3d6Py8Hum4Es2kpGPoRLDp4=Z3rK7eE8clhRRlhovKEvSBAiguoaVa
   ubyu-ARWOJktY=
  B0019H
6750/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8=1486853424=8-1&
to get around the tedium of string changing, its sort of
   fun
  actually,
and fits my pegs fine. Admittedly, once I got the set
   correct, I
  change
lute strings very rarely.
On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 

[LUTE] Re: planetary tuners

[Edward Martin]

   Howard brings out a factor, which is longevity.   I have had them for 4
   years, no breakdown thus far.   Also, Charles gave an example of the
   Ernie Ball battery charged tuning device.  i do not have that, but a
   simple device that winds the string, and it works very well for
   changing strings.
   Yes, there are those who love them, those who dislike them.
   Personally, since I got pegheds, they have solved many past issues of
   sticking and slipping when in performance.
   ed

   On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 10:47 PM, howard posner
   <[1]howardpos...@ca.rr.com> wrote:

   > On Feb 11, 2017, at 4:32 PM, Some guy named "LSA Lute Rental Program"
   wrote:
   >
   >Then, after the dust settles, we discover we are pretty much
   evenly
   >split for and against
   You're not accounting for the many, many, fraudulent votes.
   > and the issue dies down only to rise again in 12
   >months.
   >For those who do not wish to use planetary tuners, the most
   notable
   >example of which is PegHedz, their best approach is not to use
   them.
   >For those, like me, who have used them and like them very much
   indeed,
   >the best approach is to keep using them.I have 42 instruments
   in the
   >LSA's lute rental collection and if I had the money to do so I
   would
   >install PegHedz on every single one.The LSA neither supports
   nor
   >does not support the use of any particular tuner, including
   friction
   >pegs or planetary tuners such as PegHedz.I am only telling you
   that
   >I think they are such a valuable resource that I would put them on
   all
   >the lutes if it could be afforded.It can't so I won't.But
   if I
   >did it would forever eliminate the problem that aging lutes have
   of
   >pegs that become out of round and needing replacing or retooling.
  It
   >would also make tuning much easier for beginners--but that is just
   my
   >opinion.
   Have these things been around long enough that we can talk about their
   durability?
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com
   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: planetary tuners

[John Mardinly]

   Michael;

   With standard pegs, they won't go out of round if you maintain them
   properly. That means loosening the peg by turning it and pulling out a
   bit so that there is just light pressure between the wooden parts. That
   compensates for the dimensional changes caused by humidity changes. Of
   course that throws the instrument out of tune, which means you might
   need to re-tune it, and if you have 42 lutes……you will need extra
   staff, medical marijuana or psychiatric treatment.

   However, you probably already know this.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   Retired Principal Materials Nanoanalysis Engineer

   On Feb 11, 2017, at 5:32 PM, LSA Lute Rental Program
   <[1]lsaluteren...@gmail.com> wrote:

 About once a year the topic of planetary tuners comes up on this
 listserve.   People weigh in for and against, sometimes (like last
 year) the discussion gets overheated as some who are against cite
 historical authenticity and other factors as reasons against and
   those
 who are for them cite the "make it easy on yourself--adopt modern
 methods" position to support their use.
 Then, after the dust settles, we discover we are pretty much evenly
 split for and against and the issue dies down only to rise again in
   12
 months.
 For those who do not wish to use planetary tuners, the most notable
 example of which is PegHedz, their best approach is not to use them.
 For those, like me, who have used them and like them very much
   indeed,
 the best approach is to keep using them.   I have 42 instruments in
   the
 LSA's lute rental collection and if I had the money to do so I would
 install PegHedz on every single one.   The LSA neither supports nor
 does not support the use of any particular tuner, including friction
 pegs or planetary tuners such as PegHedz.   I am only telling you
   that
 I think they are such a valuable resource that I would put them on
   all
 the lutes if it could be afforded.   It can't so I won't.   But if I
 did it would forever eliminate the problem that aging lutes have of
 pegs that become out of round and needing replacing or retooling.
   It
 would also make tuning much easier for beginners--but that is just my
 opinion.
 So it seems best for us to use what we like as tuners and focus on
   the
 music we make with the strings.   Let us all continue to make
   beautiful
 music no matter what method we use to tension our strings.
 Michael
 On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 5:53 PM Charles Mokotoff
 <[1][2]mokot...@gmail.com> wrote:
  Seems we are about 50/50 split on the peghedz...
  FWIW, I have used this device:
   [1][2][3]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.a
   mazon.com_Ernie-2DBall-2DPowerpeg-2DBattery-2DPowered_dp_=DQIBAg=AG
   bYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicP
   M3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ=NIRfj-oODuubeNdT31nk3d6Py8Hum4Es2kpGPoRLDp4=Z3rK7e
   E8clhRRlhovKEvSBAiguoaVaubyu-ARWOJktY=
   B0019H
  6750/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8=8-1&
  to get around the tedium of string changing, its sort of fun
   actually,
  and fits my pegs fine. Admittedly, once I got the set correct, I
   change
  lute strings very rarely.
  On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 5:10 PM, <[2][3][4]jsl...@verizon.net>
   wrote:
   Dear All,
I really don't think the planetary tuning pegs are
   necessary for
a
   lute with good-fitting pegs. I find that a small amount of
   violin
"peg
   dope" -- the hard, waxy type, not the softer gooey type --
   is all
the
   help my lute and vihuela pegs need.
On the other hand, I did get them installed on my cittern,
   and
they
   are a godsend. So, like Ms. Carlin, I would recommend them
   for
   wire-strung instruments, which have greater tuning
   difficulties.
   Cheers,
   Jim Stimson
   On 02/11/17, Roman Turovsky<[3][4][5]r.turov...@gmail.com>
   wrote:
   A question for the Collective Wisdom:
   Looking for opinions on planetary tuners for lutes or
   vihuelas,
   cautionary tales, where to get them, which brands, how to
   install
etc.
   Thank ye all,
   RT
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [1][4][5][6]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www
   .cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DQIBAg=AGbYxfJbXK6
   7KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61yg
   SK-LNEQ=NIRfj-oODuubeNdT31nk3d6Py8Hum4Es2kpGPoRLDp4=-3VZ_SKtkLan7EG
   UsXQlVPSOKFA6y5CUtYu2eQmR9Nc=
References
   1.
   

[LUTE] Re: planetary tuners

[howard posner]

> On Feb 11, 2017, at 4:32 PM, Some guy named "LSA Lute Rental Program” wrote:
> 
>   Then, after the dust settles, we discover we are pretty much evenly
>   split for and against

You’re not accounting for the many, many, fraudulent votes.

> and the issue dies down only to rise again in 12
>   months.
>   For those who do not wish to use planetary tuners, the most notable
>   example of which is PegHedz, their best approach is not to use them.
>   For those, like me, who have used them and like them very much indeed,
>   the best approach is to keep using them.   I have 42 instruments in the
>   LSA's lute rental collection and if I had the money to do so I would
>   install PegHedz on every single one.   The LSA neither supports nor
>   does not support the use of any particular tuner, including friction
>   pegs or planetary tuners such as PegHedz.   I am only telling you that
>   I think they are such a valuable resource that I would put them on all
>   the lutes if it could be afforded.   It can't so I won't.   But if I
>   did it would forever eliminate the problem that aging lutes have of
>   pegs that become out of round and needing replacing or retooling.   It
>   would also make tuning much easier for beginners--but that is just my
>   opinion.

Have these things been around long enough that we can talk about their 
durability?




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: planetary tuners

[LSA Lute Rental Program]

   About once a year the topic of planetary tuners comes up on this
   listserve.   People weigh in for and against, sometimes (like last
   year) the discussion gets overheated as some who are against cite
   historical authenticity and other factors as reasons against and those
   who are for them cite the "make it easy on yourself--adopt modern
   methods" position to support their use.
   Then, after the dust settles, we discover we are pretty much evenly
   split for and against and the issue dies down only to rise again in 12
   months.
   For those who do not wish to use planetary tuners, the most notable
   example of which is PegHedz, their best approach is not to use them.
   For those, like me, who have used them and like them very much indeed,
   the best approach is to keep using them.   I have 42 instruments in the
   LSA's lute rental collection and if I had the money to do so I would
   install PegHedz on every single one.   The LSA neither supports nor
   does not support the use of any particular tuner, including friction
   pegs or planetary tuners such as PegHedz.   I am only telling you that
   I think they are such a valuable resource that I would put them on all
   the lutes if it could be afforded.   It can't so I won't.   But if I
   did it would forever eliminate the problem that aging lutes have of
   pegs that become out of round and needing replacing or retooling.   It
   would also make tuning much easier for beginners--but that is just my
   opinion.
   So it seems best for us to use what we like as tuners and focus on the
   music we make with the strings.   Let us all continue to make beautiful
   music no matter what method we use to tension our strings.
   Michael
   On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 5:53 PM Charles Mokotoff
   <[1]mokot...@gmail.com> wrote:

Seems we are about 50/50 split on the peghedz...
FWIW, I have used this device:

 [1][2]https://www.amazon.com/Ernie-Ball-Powerpeg-Battery-Powered/dp/
 B0019H
6750/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8=1486853424=8-1&
to get around the tedium of string changing, its sort of fun
 actually,
and fits my pegs fine. Admittedly, once I got the set correct, I
 change
lute strings very rarely.
On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 5:10 PM, <[2][3]jsl...@verizon.net>
 wrote:
 Dear All,
  I really don't think the planetary tuning pegs are
 necessary for
  a
 lute with good-fitting pegs. I find that a small amount of
 violin
  "peg
 dope" -- the hard, waxy type, not the softer gooey type --
 is all
  the
 help my lute and vihuela pegs need.
  On the other hand, I did get them installed on my cittern,
 and
  they
 are a godsend. So, like Ms. Carlin, I would recommend them
 for
 wire-strung instruments, which have greater tuning
 difficulties.
 Cheers,
 Jim Stimson
 On 02/11/17, Roman Turovsky<[3][4]r.turov...@gmail.com>
 wrote:
 A question for the Collective Wisdom:
 Looking for opinions on planetary tuners for lutes or
 vihuelas,
 cautionary tales, where to get them, which brands, how to
 install
  etc.
 Thank ye all,
 RT
 To get on or off this list see list information at

 [1][4][5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  References
 1. [5][6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/
--
 References
1.
 [7]https://www.amazon.com/Ernie-Ball-Powerpeg-Battery-Powered/dp/B00
 19H6750/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8=1486853424=8-1&
2. mailto:[8]jsl...@verizon.net
3. mailto:[9]r.turov...@gmail.com
4. [10]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
5. [11]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/

   --

   Sent from Gmail Mobile

   --

References

   1. mailto:mokot...@gmail.com
   2. https://www.amazon.com/Ernie-Ball-Powerpeg-Battery-Powered/dp/B0019H
   3. mailto:jsl...@verizon.net
   4. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/
   7. 
https://www.amazon.com/Ernie-Ball-Powerpeg-Battery-Powered/dp/B0019H6750/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8=1486853424=8-1;
   8. mailto:jsl...@verizon.net
   9. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com
  10. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  11. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/

[LUTE] Re: planetary tuners

[Charles Mokotoff]

   Seems we are about 50/50 split on the peghedz...
   FWIW, I have used this device:
   [1]https://www.amazon.com/Ernie-Ball-Powerpeg-Battery-Powered/dp/B0019H
   6750/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8=1486853424=8-1&
   to get around the tedium of string changing, its sort of fun actually,
   and fits my pegs fine. Admittedly, once I got the set correct, I change
   lute strings very rarely.

   On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 5:10 PM, <[2]jsl...@verizon.net> wrote:

Dear All,
 I really don't think the planetary tuning pegs are necessary for
 a
lute with good-fitting pegs. I find that a small amount of violin
 "peg
dope" -- the hard, waxy type, not the softer gooey type -- is all
 the
help my lute and vihuela pegs need.
 On the other hand, I did get them installed on my cittern, and
 they
are a godsend. So, like Ms. Carlin, I would recommend them for
wire-strung instruments, which have greater tuning difficulties.
Cheers,
Jim Stimson
On 02/11/17, Roman Turovsky<[3]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote:
A question for the Collective Wisdom:
Looking for opinions on planetary tuners for lutes or vihuelas,
cautionary tales, where to get them, which brands, how to install
 etc.
Thank ye all,
RT
To get on or off this list see list information at
[1][4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 References
1. [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/

   --

References

   1. 
https://www.amazon.com/Ernie-Ball-Powerpeg-Battery-Powered/dp/B0019H6750/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8=1486853424=8-1;
   2. mailto:jsl...@verizon.net
   3. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com
   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/

[LUTE] Re: planetary tuners

[jslute]

   Dear All,
I really don't think the planetary tuning pegs are necessary for a
   lute with good-fitting pegs. I find that a small amount of violin "peg
   dope" -- the hard, waxy type, not the softer gooey type -- is all the
   help my lute and vihuela pegs need.
On the other hand, I did get them installed on my cittern, and they
   are a godsend. So, like Ms. Carlin, I would recommend them for
   wire-strung instruments, which have greater tuning difficulties.
   Cheers,
   Jim Stimson


   On 02/11/17, Roman Turovsky wrote:

   A question for the Collective Wisdom:
   Looking for opinions on planetary tuners for lutes or vihuelas,
   cautionary tales, where to get them, which brands, how to install etc.
   Thank ye all,
   RT
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

References

   1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/

[LUTE] Re: planetary tuners

[Arto Wikla]

I sincerely cannot understand the idea of those hidden "machine heads"! 
Violinists, viola players, cellists, ..., do not use those.
Why should I? The old friction pegs are so easy, fast and good - if they 
are. I have had the luck of having good ones.


But everyone may choose his/her own way, I'm not opposing modern peg 
technology, but it certainly is not for me! :-)


happy friction peg (is that the right term?) user,

Arto



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: planetary tuners

[David van Ooijen]

   >> That line of

judgment leads, of course, to no synthetic strings. And that
 would mean
no really usable bass strings beyond 6 course.

   <<
   Completely off-topic, but there are still, or better: again lute
   players among us who use plain gut for their strings, including basses.
   No steroid additions, not lifeless plastics. Just Plain Gut. It seems
   to be getting our of fashion these days, to try and play lute like Ye
   Old Ones ...
   David - taking cover

   --


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: planetary tuners

[Dan Winheld]

   Actually I stand somewhat corrected on the gut basses- some of Dan
   Larson's work quite well... :-)   DW
   On 2/11/2017 12:26 PM, Dan Winheld wrote:

   John Mardinly has nailed it. My otherwise fabulous 8 course has an
   early prototype installation of these things. On my lute they are far
   more bother than they are worth (came with; this lute was a quick
   purchase of an already built lute. Bought in spite the pegheadz).
   Changing strings is, indeed, a tedious nightmare; esp. the 1st course
   which must dive into the pegbox at an unfortunate angle due to no
   provision for an "outside" hole on these things. Broken more 1st
   courses (not gut!) than not, until I ran the string to the LAST peg!
   The 4/1 turning ration is good only if your nut is slick enough to
   avoid the string sticking that is more likely to occur from slow,
   incremental turning speed- which does, admittedly, make very fine
   tuning easier for those who need it- WHEN the nut is smooth & flawless.
   Beginners, (esp. multi-course instruments). Anyone with arthritis &/or
   other finger health issues.
   But, it slows me up, and no doubt many other players.
   There is one argument against the planetary gear/pegheads that I
   totally reject. It is the one that says "They are not HIP, not
   traditional, the Old Dudes didn't use them..."   Bullcrap! That line of
   judgment leads, of course, to no synthetic strings. And that would mean
   no really usable bass strings beyond 6 course. (Only a very few of us
   still have working loaded GUT basses from Mimmo. And the loading itself
   has not been totally cleared for Kosher consumption.)
   So- I hate them, but others love them- including one of my Baroque lute
   students; on his 13 course Burkholtzer copy from Dan Larson's workshop.
   He has yet to replace his synthetic strings with the gut set that he
   also ordered, and we have yet to change a single string. Very smooth
   nut, and on his lute they do work perfectly. Just too many turns of the
   screw for my taste, but he loves them and it's HIS lute!
   Dan
   On 2/11/2017 10:02 AM, John Mardinly wrote:

   I have planetary tuners called ‘Pegheads'. They were installed in my
   1970 David Rubio 8 course lute by Mel Wong during a restoration he did
   a year and a half ago. Let me share some observations:

   1) The original friction pegs had gone very out of round and were very
   difficult to use. My understanding of this process is that it is caused
   by anisotropic expansion and contraction of the woods, which is extreme
   in regions that have extreme changes in humidity with the seasons. The
   'Pegheads' seem immune to this problem. I know this can be avoided by
   regularly moving the pegs, but prior to the restoration, the instrument
   had been unplayable for over a decade, and I just never even took it
   out of the case to look at it.

   2) The 4/1 mechanical advantage and absence of ‘sticking' make it much
   easier to adjust the tension on the string between the peg and the nut.

   3) The improvement in adjusting the tension does not necessarily
   translate into improvement in tuning, since on my lute, the strings
   stick at the nut. Perhaps I need a new nut, or need to repair and
   re-install the ‘roller-nut' I built 40 years ago that I removed for the
   restoration. I have just been too busy playing, and perhaps a bit lazy
   and procrastinating so far.

   4) Changing strings requires a lot more (4X) knob twisting, and they do
   not fit any guitar string winders I have seen.

   5) As a former industrial and university failure analysis engineer, I
   am always worried that one day, something inside the peg head will go
   ‘Pop', the peg won't work, and my lute will be essentially disabled,
   and I will not be able to fix it myself because I have no idea what the
   ‘guts' of the mechanism is or if there is even a way to take it apart
   for repair without destroying it.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   Retired Principal Materials Nanoanalysis Engineer

   On Feb 11, 2017, at 8:59 AM, Roman Turovsky [1]<[1]r.turov...@gmail.com>
   wrote:

   A question for the Collective Wisdom:
   Looking for opinions on planetary tuners for lutes or vihuelas,
   cautionary tales, where to get them, which brands, how to install etc.
   Thank ye all,
   RT
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [2][2]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth
   .edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DQICaQ=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Eji
   z41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ=qhk
   PbCA9hO80PkW18vkevfqksMnDfwT3D4yosPLAH9Y=bWPEnXQeUDe15yQrHzezPd2v4Mu_
   YRly_RHlQF1hFMs
References

   1. [3]mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com
   2. [4]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.ed
u_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DQICaQ=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A

[LUTE] Re: planetary tuners

[Dan Winheld]

   John Mardinly has nailed it. My otherwise fabulous 8 course has an
   early prototype installation of these things. On my lute they are far
   more bother than they are worth (came with; this lute was a quick
   purchase of an already built lute. Bought in spite the pegheadz).
   Changing strings is, indeed, a tedious nightmare; esp. the 1st course
   which must dive into the pegbox at an unfortunate angle due to no
   provision for an "outside" hole on these things. Broken more 1st
   courses (not gut!) than not, until I ran the string to the LAST peg!
   The 4/1 turning ration is good only if your nut is slick enough to
   avoid the string sticking that is more likely to occur from slow,
   incremental turning speed- which does, admittedly, make very fine
   tuning easier for those who need it- WHEN the nut is smooth & flawless.
   Beginners, (esp. multi-course instruments). Anyone with arthritis &/or
   other finger health issues.
   But, it slows me up, and no doubt many other players.
   There is one argument against the planetary gear/pegheads that I
   totally reject. It is the one that says "They are not HIP, not
   traditional, the Old Dudes didn't use them..."   Bullcrap! That line of
   judgment leads, of course, to no synthetic strings. And that would mean
   no really usable bass strings beyond 6 course. (Only a very few of us
   still have working loaded GUT basses from Mimmo. And the loading itself
   has not been totally cleared for Kosher consumption.)
   So- I hate them, but others love them- including one of my Baroque lute
   students; on his 13 course Burkholtzer copy from Dan Larson's workshop.
   He has yet to replace his synthetic strings with the gut set that he
   also ordered, and we have yet to change a single string. Very smooth
   nut, and on his lute they do work perfectly. Just too many turns of the
   screw for my taste, but he loves them and it's HIS lute!
   Dan
   On 2/11/2017 10:02 AM, John Mardinly wrote:

   I have planetary tuners called ‘Pegheads'. They were installed in my
   1970 David Rubio 8 course lute by Mel Wong during a restoration he did
   a year and a half ago. Let me share some observations:

   1) The original friction pegs had gone very out of round and were very
   difficult to use. My understanding of this process is that it is caused
   by anisotropic expansion and contraction of the woods, which is extreme
   in regions that have extreme changes in humidity with the seasons. The
   'Pegheads' seem immune to this problem. I know this can be avoided by
   regularly moving the pegs, but prior to the restoration, the instrument
   had been unplayable for over a decade, and I just never even took it
   out of the case to look at it.

   2) The 4/1 mechanical advantage and absence of ‘sticking' make it much
   easier to adjust the tension on the string between the peg and the nut.

   3) The improvement in adjusting the tension does not necessarily
   translate into improvement in tuning, since on my lute, the strings
   stick at the nut. Perhaps I need a new nut, or need to repair and
   re-install the ‘roller-nut' I built 40 years ago that I removed for the
   restoration. I have just been too busy playing, and perhaps a bit lazy
   and procrastinating so far.

   4) Changing strings requires a lot more (4X) knob twisting, and they do
   not fit any guitar string winders I have seen.

   5) As a former industrial and university failure analysis engineer, I
   am always worried that one day, something inside the peg head will go
   ‘Pop', the peg won't work, and my lute will be essentially disabled,
   and I will not be able to fix it myself because I have no idea what the
   ‘guts' of the mechanism is or if there is even a way to take it apart
   for repair without destroying it.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   Retired Principal Materials Nanoanalysis Engineer

   On Feb 11, 2017, at 8:59 AM, Roman Turovsky [1]<[1]r.turov...@gmail.com>
   wrote:

   A question for the Collective Wisdom:
   Looking for opinions on planetary tuners for lutes or vihuelas,
   cautionary tales, where to get them, which brands, how to install etc.
   Thank ye all,
   RT
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [2][2]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth
   .edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DQICaQ=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Eji
   z41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ=qhk
   PbCA9hO80PkW18vkevfqksMnDfwT3D4yosPLAH9Y=bWPEnXQeUDe15yQrHzezPd2v4Mu_
   YRly_RHlQF1hFMs
References

   1. [3]mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com
   2. [4]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.ed
u_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DQICaQ=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A
-1IxfAU=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ=qhkPbCA9hO80PkW18vkevfqk
sMnDfwT3D4yosPLAH9Y=bWPEnXQeUDe15yQrHzezPd2v4Mu_YRly_RHlQF1hFMs=



   --

References

   1. mailto:[1]r.turov...@gmail.com
   2. 

[LUTE] Re: [LUTE] Re: planetary tuners

[tribi...@arcetri.astro.it]

   Nothing better of peg paste and graphite on the nut grooves. It worked
   for centuries, no need to change...
   Francesco
   - Rispondi al messaggio -
   Da: "Rob MacKillop" <robmackil...@gmail.com>
   A: "Roman Turovsky" <r.turov...@gmail.com>
   Cc: "Lute Net" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Oggetto: [LUTE] Re: planetary tuners
   Data: sab, feb 11, 2017 17:05

   I have them on a guitar. Wish I didn't. Well-fitting pegs are better.
   Rob

   On 11 February 2017 at 15:59, Roman Turovsky <[1]r.turov...@gmail.com>
   wrote:

 A question for the Collective Wisdom:
 Looking for opinions on planetary tuners for lutes or vihuelas,
 cautionary tales, where to get them, which brands, how to install
 etc.
 Thank ye all,
 RT
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [2][1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com
   2. [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

References

   1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: planetary tuners

[Edward Martin]

I have them on an 8-course lute, 11-course lute, and vihuela. They are 
fantastic, highly recommended. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 11, 2017, at 9:59 AM, Roman Turovsky  wrote:
> 
> A question for the Collective Wisdom:
> 
> Looking for opinions on planetary tuners for lutes or vihuelas, cautionary 
> tales, where to get them, which brands, how to install etc.
> 
> Thank ye all,
> RT
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: planetary tuners

[Nancy Carlin]

I have Pegheds on 2 of my orpharions and love them!
Nancy

A question for the Collective Wisdom:

Looking for opinions on planetary tuners for lutes or vihuelas, 
cautionary tales, where to get them, which brands, how to install etc.


Thank ye all,
RT



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html




--
Nancy Carlin
Administrator THE LUTE SOCIETY OF AMERICA
http://LuteSocietyofAmerica.org

PO Box 6499
Concord, CA 94524
USA
925 / 686-5800

www.groundsanddivisions.info
www.nancycarlinassociates.com

[LUTE] Re: planetary tuners

[John Mardinly]

   I have planetary tuners called ‘Pegheads'. They were installed in my
   1970 David Rubio 8 course lute by Mel Wong during a restoration he did
   a year and a half ago. Let me share some observations:

   1) The original friction pegs had gone very out of round and were very
   difficult to use. My understanding of this process is that it is caused
   by anisotropic expansion and contraction of the woods, which is extreme
   in regions that have extreme changes in humidity with the seasons. The
   'Pegheads' seem immune to this problem. I know this can be avoided by
   regularly moving the pegs, but prior to the restoration, the instrument
   had been unplayable for over a decade, and I just never even took it
   out of the case to look at it.

   2) The 4/1 mechanical advantage and absence of ‘sticking' make it much
   easier to adjust the tension on the string between the peg and the nut.

   3) The improvement in adjusting the tension does not necessarily
   translate into improvement in tuning, since on my lute, the strings
   stick at the nut. Perhaps I need a new nut, or need to repair and
   re-install the ‘roller-nut' I built 40 years ago that I removed for the
   restoration. I have just been too busy playing, and perhaps a bit lazy
   and procrastinating so far.

   4) Changing strings requires a lot more (4X) knob twisting, and they do
   not fit any guitar string winders I have seen.

   5) As a former industrial and university failure analysis engineer, I
   am always worried that one day, something inside the peg head will go
   ‘Pop', the peg won't work, and my lute will be essentially disabled,
   and I will not be able to fix it myself because I have no idea what the
   ‘guts' of the mechanism is or if there is even a way to take it apart
   for repair without destroying it.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   Retired Principal Materials Nanoanalysis Engineer

   On Feb 11, 2017, at 8:59 AM, Roman Turovsky <[1]r.turov...@gmail.com>
   wrote:

   A question for the Collective Wisdom:
   Looking for opinions on planetary tuners for lutes or vihuelas,
   cautionary tales, where to get them, which brands, how to install etc.
   Thank ye all,
   RT
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [2]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth
   .edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DQICaQ=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Eji
   z41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ=qhk
   PbCA9hO80PkW18vkevfqksMnDfwT3D4yosPLAH9Y=bWPEnXQeUDe15yQrHzezPd2v4Mu_
   YRly_RHlQF1hFMs=

References

   1. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com
   2. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DQICaQ=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ=qhkPbCA9hO80PkW18vkevfqksMnDfwT3D4yosPLAH9Y=bWPEnXQeUDe15yQrHzezPd2v4Mu_YRly_RHlQF1hFMs=

[LUTE] Re: planetary tuners

[Roman Turovsky]

   I have a vihuela in which the pegs are installed at such an angle in
   the headstock
   that the string-pull loosens them. I think planetaries might be a good
   solution.
   RT

   On 2/11/2017 11:05 AM, Rob MacKillop wrote:

   I have them on a guitar. Wish I didn't. Well-fitting pegs are better.
   Rob

   On 11 February 2017 at 15:59, Roman Turovsky <[1]r.turov...@gmail.com>
   wrote:

 A question for the Collective Wisdom:
 Looking for opinions on planetary tuners for lutes or vihuelas,
 cautionary tales, where to get them, which brands, how to install
 etc.
 Thank ye all,
 RT
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com
   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: planetary tuners

[Rob MacKillop]

   I have them on a guitar. Wish I didn't. Well-fitting pegs are better.
   Rob

   On 11 February 2017 at 15:59, Roman Turovsky <[1]r.turov...@gmail.com>
   wrote:

 A question for the Collective Wisdom:
 Looking for opinions on planetary tuners for lutes or vihuelas,
 cautionary tales, where to get them, which brands, how to install
 etc.
 Thank ye all,
 RT
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com
   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: planetary tuners

[Charles Mokotoff]

   I have these:
   [1]http://www.pegheds.com/
   they are wonderful, the guy who puts them on is super nice and
   efficient, highly recommended.

   On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 10:59 AM, Roman Turovsky
   <[2]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote:

 A question for the Collective Wisdom:
 Looking for opinions on planetary tuners for lutes or vihuelas,
 cautionary tales, where to get them, which brands, how to install
 etc.
 Thank ye all,
 RT
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. http://www.pegheds.com/
   2. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com
   3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html