Re: LibreOffice to LyX
Am 08.10.21 um 07:38 schrieb Dr Eberhard Lisse: Everybody has Word and how difficult can it be? not me Wolfgang Indeed it is very easy to write poorly looking documents in (Word and) LibreOffice. LaTeX enforces a lot of things, and this one of the reasons why you really have to try hard to write poorly looking documents, though I have seen many determined attempts at doing so over the years, some of them successful. The answer I ALWAYS get from Word/LO users is: Styles? What are Styles? el On 2021-10-08 03:44 , Alan Tyree wrote: Why is it so hard to get people to use styles? I worked recently with a friend to convert his Word document into an ePub. My advice is don't ever, ever do this! Even though I had advocated the use of styles, he had spent hours using direct formatting. And it is not just amateurs. I write for a service that insists on using Word documents (who knows why?) and the stuff they send me is all direct formatting. I know that this is preaching to the choir here, but I wondered if anyone had a strategy that convinced others to work with styles. Cheers, Alan [...] -- lyx-users mailing list lyx-users@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-users
Vertically flush closure of the index
Hi, my (two-column) index should be formatted in justification (is that the correct word?), which sometimes creates ugly large gaps in the text when the line breaks. I figured I could work around this problem by left-justifying the entire index. To do this, I added the command \raggedright immediately before it. That works too. But unfortunately the two-column index on the last page no longer ends vertically flush. How can I get a concise deal? Greetings Andreas MWE7.lyx Description: application/lyx MWE7.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document -- lyx-users mailing list lyx-users@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-users
Re: KOMA-Script Report: page numbers not displaying
Revision Control is your friend :-)-O el On 2021-10-08 03:06 , Rich Shepard wrote: On Fri, 8 Oct 2021, Dr Eberhard Lisse wrote: I think, if you use one of these you must make appropriate definitions for the headers/footers lest nothing is being the default. However, when using Koma Script I set Document -> Settings... -> Page Layout -> Page Style: Default and in the preamble I put something something like EL, I, too, have used the default page style. I think that I inadvertenty removed all the header information from the preamble. That's probably the cause. I'll make sure that the preamble is restored and that should solve the problem. Thanks for the reminder and stay well, Rich -- lyx-users mailing list lyx-users@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-users
Re: LibreOffice to LyX
Everybody has Word and how difficult can it be? Indeed it is very easy to write poorly looking documents in (Word and) LibreOffice. LaTeX enforces a lot of things, and this one of the reasons why you really have to try hard to write poorly looking documents, though I have seen many determined attempts at doing so over the years, some of them successful. The answer I ALWAYS get from Word/LO users is: Styles? What are Styles? el On 2021-10-08 03:44 , Alan Tyree wrote: Why is it so hard to get people to use styles? I worked recently with a friend to convert his Word document into an ePub. My advice is don't ever, ever do this! Even though I had advocated the use of styles, he had spent hours using direct formatting. And it is not just amateurs. I write for a service that insists on using Word documents (who knows why?) and the stuff they send me is all direct formatting. I know that this is preaching to the choir here, but I wondered if anyone had a strategy that convinced others to work with styles. Cheers, Alan [...] -- lyx-users mailing list lyx-users@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-users
Re: LibreOffice to LyX
Good point about systems allowing direct formatting Virgil. It should be
prohibited. I didn't know that AbiWord had the lockdown feature ("lockdown"
being the trendy word in Oz these days!), but it is a good idea.
AbiWord is still available, the latest release for Linux was in July of
this year. The Windows version has been dropped though. I always thought
that it was a rather slick lightweight word processor in my pre-latex days.
One of the things I like about Markdown is that I can convince some of my
friends to use it. They are doing family diaries and trip chronicles and
such that don't require anything too fancy. The separation of writing and
formatting is a revelation to them.
Cheers,
Alan
On Fri, 8 Oct 2021 at 13:02, Virgil Arrington wrote:
> On 10/7/2021 9:44 PM, Alan Tyree wrote:
> > Why is it so hard to get people to use styles? I worked recently with
> > a friend to convert his Word document into an ePub. My advice is don't
> > ever, ever do this! Even though I had advocated the use of styles, he
> > had spent hours using direct formatting.
> >
> > And it is not just amateurs. I write for a service that insists on
> > using Word documents (who knows why?) and the stuff they send me is
> > all direct formatting.
> >
> > I know that this is preaching to the choir here, but I wondered if
> > anyone had a strategy that convinced others to work with styles.
> >
> I used to teach a course in Law Office Technology for paralegal
> students. One of the sections required that I teach them how to use
> Word. I was determined to at least expose them to the benefit of styles.
> So, one day, I gave them an assignment. I had emailed them a Word
> document consisting of plain unformatted text. I then gave them a
> printed copy of the same text that I had previously formatted to look
> like a court document. I then told them that their assignment was to
> make their unformatted text look like the formatted result.
>
> I usually would let them struggle for about a half an hour, laboriously
> applying all sorts of direct formatting to their document. I would then
> intervene and demonstrate before their eyes how I could format the
> document in literally under a minute using the styles that were already
> available on all of their computers.
>
> That got their attention. I later graded all of their assignments not
> only on substance but on whether or not they had used styles instead of
> direct formatting.
>
> The obvious problem with styles is that it is time consuming to create
> and edit them. It is counter-intuitive to spend so much time on our
> tools when all we want is to get the work done. One drawback to programs
> like Word or LibreOffice is that they make direct formatting even
> possible whereas LyX and LaTeX all but force a person to use styles (or
> "environments"). I remember years ago another FOSS word processor --
> AbiWord -- had a feature called "lock styles" that would prevent direct
> formatting. I thought it was a great idea.
>
> Virgil
>
--
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Re: LibreOffice to LyX
On 10/7/2021 9:44 PM, Alan Tyree wrote: Why is it so hard to get people to use styles? I worked recently with a friend to convert his Word document into an ePub. My advice is don't ever, ever do this! Even though I had advocated the use of styles, he had spent hours using direct formatting. And it is not just amateurs. I write for a service that insists on using Word documents (who knows why?) and the stuff they send me is all direct formatting. I know that this is preaching to the choir here, but I wondered if anyone had a strategy that convinced others to work with styles. I used to teach a course in Law Office Technology for paralegal students. One of the sections required that I teach them how to use Word. I was determined to at least expose them to the benefit of styles. So, one day, I gave them an assignment. I had emailed them a Word document consisting of plain unformatted text. I then gave them a printed copy of the same text that I had previously formatted to look like a court document. I then told them that their assignment was to make their unformatted text look like the formatted result. I usually would let them struggle for about a half an hour, laboriously applying all sorts of direct formatting to their document. I would then intervene and demonstrate before their eyes how I could format the document in literally under a minute using the styles that were already available on all of their computers. That got their attention. I later graded all of their assignments not only on substance but on whether or not they had used styles instead of direct formatting. The obvious problem with styles is that it is time consuming to create and edit them. It is counter-intuitive to spend so much time on our tools when all we want is to get the work done. One drawback to programs like Word or LibreOffice is that they make direct formatting even possible whereas LyX and LaTeX all but force a person to use styles (or "environments"). I remember years ago another FOSS word processor -- AbiWord -- had a feature called "lock styles" that would prevent direct formatting. I thought it was a great idea. Virgil -- lyx-users mailing list lyx-users@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-users
Re: LibreOffice to LyX
Why is it so hard to get people to use styles? I worked recently with a
friend to convert his Word document into an ePub. My advice is don't ever,
ever do this! Even though I had advocated the use of styles, he had spent
hours using direct formatting.
And it is not just amateurs. I write for a service that insists on using
Word documents (who knows why?) and the stuff they send me is all direct
formatting.
I know that this is preaching to the choir here, but I wondered if anyone
had a strategy that convinced others to work with styles.
Cheers,
Alan
On Fri, 8 Oct 2021 at 12:21, Virgil Arrington wrote:
>
> On 10/7/2021 2:50 PM, Dr Eberhard Lisse wrote:
> > Virgil,
> >
> > how could that work in ANY program ("dorward" compatibility)?
> >
> > But it's Open Source, just pull the latest version once out of beta.
>
> No doubt that is an easy solution with FOSS. But I recall a time when I
> once upgraded LyX on my Linux box without thinking of my Windows
> computer, for which upgraded LyX binaries were not yet available. For a
> few days, I had some compatibility issues between the two LyX versions
> on my computers.
>
> In a different context, file compatibility was the original issue in
> this thread. Osman had asked how to convert his LibreOffice letterhead
> to LyX format. Both you and Steve (wisely I believe) advised him against
> trying. LibreOffice and LyX are just two very different systems with
> different workflows and ways of getting tasks done.
>
> But, then Steve went one step further and shared his horror story trying
> to translate his book from Word to LibreOffice. From his experience, he
> concluded that LibreOffice doesn't work well with large documents with
> styles. That piqued my interest as I have never had any problem with
> LibreOffice's styles regardless of the size of the document.
>
> In fact, several years ago, I wanted my Business Ethics students to read
> and write a book report on Charles Sheldon's classic novel, In His
> Steps. Since the book is in the public domain, I thought I would save my
> students some money and provide them with free copies of the book. I
> downloaded a plain text version of the book and loaded it into
> LibreOffice. From there, I formatted the book using my pre-defined
> paragraph, page, and character styles. It came to 188 pages and
> LibreOffice handled it with ease. My styles didn't magically change on
> me. To be fair, as a novel, the formatting was very straightforward with
> no tables, charts, and only a couple footnotes. The most involved part
> was the table of contents.
>
> Once I got it completed in LibreOffice, I exported it into various file
> formats to meet my students' different needs. I exported it as a .DOC,
> .DOCX, .XHTML, .PDF, .EPUB, and Kindle MOBI. The first five formats I
> achieved with LibreOffice's export function. To get the MOBI file, I
> used Calibre. Everything went smooth as silk in all of the formats.
>
> I could be wrong, but I think the difference between my experience and
> Steve's is that I started with unformatted text whereas I assume he
> started with a formatted Word document. Over the decades I have learned
> that formatted documents created with different programs just don't like
> being altered by another program. For this reason, when I practiced law,
> I had my office computer installed with Word, WordPerfect, LibreOffice,
> and Atlantis. If I were collaborating with another colleague, I just
> used whatever program they used. Regardless of the program I used,
> nearly every time I tried to edit a non-native document, I ran into
> problems. It was exacerbated by the fact that usually, my colleagues
> used direct formatting rather than styles and that always created a hot
> mess. I learned to not expect a document created in Word with a
> combination of styles and direct formatting to work smoothly in
> LibreOffice with its own interpretation of styles (or WordPerfect, or
> AbiWord, or Atlantis, or LyX or whatever).
>
> All this to say that I find that LyX and LibreOffice are both very good
> programs and both can create very large documents without collapsing. I
> have gotten excellent results with both (as long as I remember to
> properly word my Google search for LaTeX guidance ;)
>
> Virgil
>
>
>
> --
> lyx-users mailing list
> lyx-users@lists.lyx.org
> http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-users
>
--
Alan L Tyreehttp://www2.austlii.edu.au/~alan
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Re: LibreOffice to LyX
On 10/7/2021 2:50 PM, Dr Eberhard Lisse wrote:
Virgil,
how could that work in ANY program ("dorward" compatibility)?
But it's Open Source, just pull the latest version once out of beta.
No doubt that is an easy solution with FOSS. But I recall a time when I
once upgraded LyX on my Linux box without thinking of my Windows
computer, for which upgraded LyX binaries were not yet available. For a
few days, I had some compatibility issues between the two LyX versions
on my computers.
In a different context, file compatibility was the original issue in
this thread. Osman had asked how to convert his LibreOffice letterhead
to LyX format. Both you and Steve (wisely I believe) advised him against
trying. LibreOffice and LyX are just two very different systems with
different workflows and ways of getting tasks done.
But, then Steve went one step further and shared his horror story trying
to translate his book from Word to LibreOffice. From his experience, he
concluded that LibreOffice doesn't work well with large documents with
styles. That piqued my interest as I have never had any problem with
LibreOffice's styles regardless of the size of the document.
In fact, several years ago, I wanted my Business Ethics students to read
and write a book report on Charles Sheldon's classic novel, In His
Steps. Since the book is in the public domain, I thought I would save my
students some money and provide them with free copies of the book. I
downloaded a plain text version of the book and loaded it into
LibreOffice. From there, I formatted the book using my pre-defined
paragraph, page, and character styles. It came to 188 pages and
LibreOffice handled it with ease. My styles didn't magically change on
me. To be fair, as a novel, the formatting was very straightforward with
no tables, charts, and only a couple footnotes. The most involved part
was the table of contents.
Once I got it completed in LibreOffice, I exported it into various file
formats to meet my students' different needs. I exported it as a .DOC,
.DOCX, .XHTML, .PDF, .EPUB, and Kindle MOBI. The first five formats I
achieved with LibreOffice's export function. To get the MOBI file, I
used Calibre. Everything went smooth as silk in all of the formats.
I could be wrong, but I think the difference between my experience and
Steve's is that I started with unformatted text whereas I assume he
started with a formatted Word document. Over the decades I have learned
that formatted documents created with different programs just don't like
being altered by another program. For this reason, when I practiced law,
I had my office computer installed with Word, WordPerfect, LibreOffice,
and Atlantis. If I were collaborating with another colleague, I just
used whatever program they used. Regardless of the program I used,
nearly every time I tried to edit a non-native document, I ran into
problems. It was exacerbated by the fact that usually, my colleagues
used direct formatting rather than styles and that always created a hot
mess. I learned to not expect a document created in Word with a
combination of styles and direct formatting to work smoothly in
LibreOffice with its own interpretation of styles (or WordPerfect, or
AbiWord, or Atlantis, or LyX or whatever).
All this to say that I find that LyX and LibreOffice are both very good
programs and both can create very large documents without collapsing. I
have gotten excellent results with both (as long as I remember to
properly word my Google search for LaTeX guidance ;)
Virgil
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Re: KOMA-Script Report: page numbers not displaying
On Fri, 8 Oct 2021, Dr Eberhard Lisse wrote: I think, if you use one of these you must make appropriate definitions for the headers/footers lest nothing is being the default. However, when using Koma Script I set Document -> Settings... -> Page Layout -> Page Style: Default and in the preamble I put something something like EL, I, too, have used the default page style. I think that I inadvertenty removed all the header information from the preamble. That's probably the cause. I'll make sure that the preamble is restored and that should solve the problem. Thanks for the reminder and stay well, Rich -- lyx-users mailing list lyx-users@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-users
Re: KOMA-Script Report: page numbers not displaying
Rich,
I think, if you use one of these you must make appropriate definitions
for the headers/footers lest nothing is being the default.
However, when using Koma Script I set
Document -> Settings... -> Page Layout -> Page Style: Default
and in the preamble I put something something like
\usepackage[automark]{scrlayer-scrpage}
\usepackage{lastpage}
\clearscrheadfoot
\lofoot{Title of the Book}
\rofoot{Page \thepage\ of \pageref{LastPage}}
\pagestyle{scrheadings}
\renewcommand*{\chapterpagestyle}{scrheadings}
You then want to download and peruse
http://mirrors.ctan.org/macros/latex/contrib/koma-script/doc/scrguien.pdf
because scrlayer-scrpage offers much finer control over headers and
footers and I have forgotten what automark does :-)-O
greetings, el
On 2021-10-08 00:04 , Rich Shepard wrote:
I must have broken something and haven't identified what broke.
In Settings -> Page layout I've changed the page style from 'default' to
'header' and 'fancy' and none has the pages numbered when I compile the
document using pdflatex.
My web search finds help on removing page numbers and the wiki page on page
numbering, but I've not seen why they're not appearing in this document.
A clue stick is needed.
TIA,
Rich
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KOMA-Script Report: page numbers not displaying
I must have broken something and haven't identified what broke. In Settings -> Page layout I've changed the page style from 'default' to 'header' and 'fancy' and none has the pages numbered when I compile the document using pdflatex. My web search finds help on removing page numbers and the wiki page on page numbering, but I've not seen why they're not appearing in this document. A clue stick is needed. TIA, Rich -- lyx-users mailing list lyx-users@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-users
Re: LibreOffice to LyX
Le 07/10/2021 à 14:05, Virgil Arrington a écrit : I learned that, to be truly compatible, I had to not only use the same program as my colleague, but also the same version. This is even true with different versions of LyX. Every new release seems to change the source file format just enough that earlier versions of LyX have trouble reading documents created with later versions. The rules with LyX versions are clear: * all stable versions 2.x.y with same x are able to read/write files in the exact same 2.x format. * all stable versions 2.x.y are able to read files of version 2.x' with x'export to format 2.x'. * the last stable release of the 2.x series is able to read files from 2.(x+1) series and to export to this version, although it can be expected that some features are turned to ERT. This last stable release is usually released at the same time as 2.(x+1).0. If any of these descriptions is incorrect, please file a bug or complain here. JMarc PS: you can replace the 2. with 1., in case you have old files lying around :) -- lyx-users mailing list lyx-users@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-users
Re: LibreOffice to LyX
Virgil,
how could that work in ANY program ("dorward" compatibility)?
But it's Open Source, just pull the latest version once out of beta.
The next one is rumored to support DocBook so you can get inti evenmore
trouble :-)-O
el
On 2021-10-07 14:05 , Virgil Arrington wrote:
[...]
This is even true with different versions of LyX. Every new release
seems to change the source file format just enough that earlier
versions of LyX have trouble reading documents created with later
versions.
[...]
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Re: LibreOffice to LyX
On 10/6/2021 11:14 PM, Steve Litt wrote: After importing my 300 page book from MS Word to LibreOffice, I looked extensively in the menu system, in the help docs, and on the Internet to resolve my magically changing styles problem, all to no avail. LibreOffice is just fine if you don't use styles, but who would not use styles when working with a large document? I can't deny your experience, I think you may be unfairly blaming LibreOffice's and its styles. I don't think the problem was with LibreOffice or with the size of your book. I think your problem lay in trying to import a styled 300 page book from Word to LibreOffice. Something always gets lost in translating documents between two programs. I have this happen to me even with unformatted text in different plain text editors if they are using different encoding. Before my retirement, I was a practicing lawyer, and I often had to share documents with people who created or edited them on different systems, whether Word, WordPerfect or something else. If I was responsible to produce the final output, I learned to strip all formatting from the document and apply my own styles from scratch. I never had a problem with that method. Yes, it was time consuming, but it always worked, no matter how large the document. In reality, a MS Word paragraph style works differently from a LO Writer style. I learned that, to be truly compatible, I had to not only use the same program as my colleague, but also the same version. This is even true with different versions of LyX. Every new release seems to change the source file format just enough that earlier versions of LyX have trouble reading documents created with later versions. LibreOffice's styles work just fine, even with large documents. I have a 108 slide Impress presentation that works perfectly. But, I created and edited that file on LibreOffice; I wouldn't dream of trying to import an MS PowerPoint file into Impress without having problems, just as I would never dream of importing an Impress file into PowerPoint without problems. Virgil -- lyx-users mailing list lyx-users@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-users
