Re: Engineering student considering LyX for Thesis
On 18. okt. 2011 13:04, Hannu Vuolasaho wrote: Hi! I'm also writing my thesis with Lyx. My biggest problem is .doc template. If I open it on Libreoffice, OpenOffice or MS Office with different versions I get subtle changes in printout. If these programs produce some differences, then the standard is loosely specified. For surely they won't reject the _formatting_ of a thesis using their own template? For example vertical space before image might change little and lines length differ. Then there is the typesetting in Lyx. Lyx' fonts are generally more readable than Office programs due proper kerning. Now the problem comes. What is the right layout and how I reproduce it with Lyx. If there is trick please tell to list also. For the document, just use the same font and text size as their template uses. All word processors have some differences in line breaking, page breaking and spacing between figures. This should not matter to a university, as long as your thesis isn't _very_ different from the rest. They may be more strict about the front page. Try to match the layout closely, use "insert->formatting" and vertical spacing or horizontal spacing as needed. Boxes are also sometimes useful for positioning stuff. Experiment with font sizes to match what they want. Make a test printout, and ask the professor if the layout is ok. If he find the question strange, just explain that you use a different word processor so you can't use their .doc template directly. Also references are different. I never learned bibtext enough to give right style of reference list. Now I have page which is list of my references and then I cross-reference to them. It is also irritating that you can't cross reference to say Fig 1 without labeling it. Or have I missed something? To cross-reference a figure, it must have a label. It is the label that generates the referencable number. Also - how should people find "figure 5" in the printed document, if the figure isn't captioned with the text "figure 5" ? (It is possible to reference the page number, but there can be several small figures on the same page.) It is possible to have page references to something without a caption, if you really want that. you can insert a label anywhere in text, and refer to that. But there is no guarantee that the document won't have a page break between the figure and the label. A caption does not have that problem. If entering figures is too much work, consider other ways of doing it. I normally copy+paste some existing figure, then I change the filename in the new figure. That way, I get a figure inside a float with a caption - without having to enter everything through the menu system. And last thing. I'm not professional with Lyx and I still learn a lot with it. And problems that I mentionned might not be real problems. I haven't just found solutions yet. Well, just ask here when you get problems. People are usually helpful. Also ask if something seems very cumbersome. There may be an easier way. Many menu choices have hotkeys, for example. That can save a lot of work for stuff you do often. Helge Hafting
Re: Engineering student considering LyX for Thesis
I may be reiterating points here, but: I wrote my Master's Thesis (75 pages) in LaTeX, in preference over Xywrite (think of it as a DOS-based, pre-Word Word) at the insistence of my thesis advisor -- thank you Dr. Enge! Then I spent the next fifteen years wishing I could be using LaTeX instead of Word for long documents. In a word, Word (and, for that matter, OpenOffice) sucks at big documents. As soon as you find yourself writing chapters and trying to put them together into books, things just bog down or crash altogether. Later revisions (of both Word and OpenOffice) are better, but Word and its ilk are still, at base, tools for administrative staff who are not yet clear on the concept that painting "white out" on the screen doesn't make the problem go away in the document. It's best to remember at all times that Lyx is just a thin overlay over a LaTeX document, and that LaTeX is not a WYSIWYG environment -- it's a WYMIWYG (what you mean is what you get) environment. You'll do best with LyX if you have a LaTeX manual sitting at your elbow at all times, so that you don't try to do things that "just don't fit". So -- the equation writing environment can't be beat, the tool handles large documents seamlessly, and the graphics handling are no worse and in many ways better than WYSIWYG word processors, and the whole shebang is designed specifically for writing technical documents. What more could you want? As far as work load goes, I think that by the end of the first ten pages you'll be going as fast as you would have been in Word. By the end of the first twenty pages you will have caught up with what you would have done in Word (and that's without factoring in a crash or two). By the end of the document, you'll be very happy that you chose Lyx. On Mon, 2011-10-17 at 09:49 -0700, Johnston81 wrote: > To the ones that can and will help, > > I apologize if this has already been covered in another topic; I have > searched but been unable to find any such. If, however, you know of such > topics, if you could please point me in the right direction? > > My current situation is this: I am working on my Master Thesis and currently > doing my research and such. As it is now, I am uncertain how large my final > project will be - I imagine that the final document will probably exceed 100 > pages, but where I am uncertain of size I am certain that the document will > contain considerable amounts of graphs and tables - rather more than I am > comfortable working with in Word 2010. > > My questions are fairly simple to ask, I am not certain that everybody will > agree on the answers but rough estimates are all I am looking for anyway. So > here goes: > > 1. Considering LyX over Word, how much time would I approximately need to > learn LyX to the extent that I can actually produce text, including graphics > and formulas(!), from a template? > 2. What can I reasonably expect my learning curve to be after having learned > the bare basics; what I mean is, is it simple to teach LyX to oneself and > how easy is it to solve problems when encountered? > 3. And finally, being a skilled user of Word would I - ultimately - save or > spend time if I did try my luck on LyX? > > I have many more similar questions, but for now this will have to do - I > shouldn't take to much of your time! But if you have any other advice or > experiences that relate to my post, that you feel could help me or others > that are doing the same kind of contemplations, please do not hesitate and > do share! > > Thank you very much for time. I look forward to read your replies! > > Johnston81 > > -- > View this message in context: > http://lyx.475766.n2.nabble.com/Engineering-student-considering-LyX-for-Thesis-tp6901371p6901371.html > Sent from the LyX - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- Tim Wescott www.wescottdesign.com Control & Communications systems, circuit & software design.
Re: Engineering student considering LyX for Thesis
Steve, Thank you very much for your input. If it makes any sense, I totally agree with your disagreements. I have been an OpenOffice user for over a decade. A few years ago, I became interested in typography, and soon became frustrated with the typographic limitations of OpenOffice. Specifically, it drove me crazy that I had these neat OpenType fonts on my computer but OpenOffice couldn't access their expert typographic glyphs. About a year and a half ago, I was doing a Google search for software that might be OpenType savvy, and I stumbled on TeX/LaTeX as a possible solution. At the time, I knew absolutely nothing about the TeX world. Fortunately, I came across a link to LyX, which I consider to be LaTeX with training wheels. When I printed my first document with Palatino and old style numbers, I thought I had died and gone to typographic heaven. And, those justified margins--especially with Microtype! I had never seen anything so beautiful come from my OpenOffice. In fact, until discovering LyX and LaTeX, I never bothered justifying margins with my word processors because it looked so bad. You're absolutely right about the elegance of LyX's interface. I chose a poor word for that sentence. After using LyX, the OpenOffice interface looks extremely cluttered and very much like a digital typewriter. And, I fully agree that I PREFER that LyX is not fully WYSIWYG. It makes document production SO much faster. I wrote the booklet more for myself than with any specific audience in mind. I did it to learn the program. I'm happy to share it with anyone who might find it helpful. Virgil -Original Message- From: Steve Litt Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 5:51 PM To: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org Subject: Re: Engineering student considering LyX for Thesis Hi Virgil, Congratulations and thank you for providing first-class LyX documentation. I hope you post on your website both that PDF and the .lyx and .layout files that produced it, and then place a link to them on the LyX wiki. I agree with almost everything you say in your document, and will now list my disagreements. Anything not listed below -- that means I agree with you. #1: When listing LyX advantages you forgot a big one -- it's an extremely fast typing environment -- faster than TeX, LaTeX, and slightly faster than MSWord. #2: You imply LaTeX is easier to work with than TeX. 99% of the world agrees with you, but not me. In my humble opinion, TeX is incredibly easy and consistent, and suitable for writing moderately complex documents. In my opinion (and as I mentioned, mine is a minority opinion), LaTeX becomes prefereable only when you're doing very complex things with your document, or when you want a ready-made document class. The other reason to use LaTeX is that LaTeX, not TeX, is the technology behind LyX. #3: You say "Like a modern-day word processor, LYX places a graphical user interface on top of the basic LaTEX foundation. However, it is still not as elegant as a true wysiwyg word processor." Personally, I'd replace the word "elegant" with the word WYSIWYG. In my opinion, once someone's used LyX for a few weeks, LyX will seem every bit as elegant as WordPerfect, MSWord, LibreOffice etc. LyX simply doesn't show page breaks or which words go on which lines #4: You say "In fact, the LYX developers call their program wysiwym— What You See Is What You Mean." That's absolutely accurate, and man, I really wish the LyX developers had never called it "What You See Is What You Mean." I find that phrase irrelevant, misleading, and unnecessary. In fact, LyX is partially WYSIWYG, and that's not a bad thing. Rather than trotting out that WYSIWYM acronym, I wish they'd list LyX's features: Fast authoring, beautifully typeset output, easy and beautiful equations, greatly favors styles-based authoring and disfavors fingerpainting. #5: Your document seems to be targetted at an audience who has been using MS Word and is unfamiliar with LyX. You might want to add in a few places "after a few weeks using LyX you'll view it more like ..." This was an excellent piece of documentation. I've used LyX ten years, and didn't know about the microtype package until reading about it in your document. Thank you! SteveT On Tuesday, October 18, 2011 12:41:35 PM Virgil Arrington wrote: If it's helpful, attached is a booklet I wrote about LyX. I prepared it as an exercise in order to learn how to use LyX. After performing this exercise, I would definitely try using LyX or a plain LaTeX editor for a thesis. But, before doing so, I would definitely read the LyX Introduction and Tutorial in the Help menu. That will save you a lot of heartache. Virgil -Original Message----- From: Johnston81 Sent: Monday, October 17, 2011 12:49 PM To: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org Subject: Engineering student consider
Re: Engineering student considering LyX for Thesis
Hi Virgil, Congratulations and thank you for providing first-class LyX documentation. I hope you post on your website both that PDF and the .lyx and .layout files that produced it, and then place a link to them on the LyX wiki. I agree with almost everything you say in your document, and will now list my disagreements. Anything not listed below -- that means I agree with you. #1: When listing LyX advantages you forgot a big one -- it's an extremely fast typing environment -- faster than TeX, LaTeX, and slightly faster than MSWord. #2: You imply LaTeX is easier to work with than TeX. 99% of the world agrees with you, but not me. In my humble opinion, TeX is incredibly easy and consistent, and suitable for writing moderately complex documents. In my opinion (and as I mentioned, mine is a minority opinion), LaTeX becomes prefereable only when you're doing very complex things with your document, or when you want a ready-made document class. The other reason to use LaTeX is that LaTeX, not TeX, is the technology behind LyX. #3: You say "Like a modern-day word processor, LYX places a graphical user interface on top of the basic LaTEX foundation. However, it is still not as elegant as a true wysiwyg word processor." Personally, I'd replace the word "elegant" with the word WYSIWYG. In my opinion, once someone's used LyX for a few weeks, LyX will seem every bit as elegant as WordPerfect, MSWord, LibreOffice etc. LyX simply doesn't show page breaks or which words go on which lines #4: You say "In fact, the LYX developers call their program wysiwym— What You See Is What You Mean." That's absolutely accurate, and man, I really wish the LyX developers had never called it "What You See Is What You Mean." I find that phrase irrelevant, misleading, and unnecessary. In fact, LyX is partially WYSIWYG, and that's not a bad thing. Rather than trotting out that WYSIWYM acronym, I wish they'd list LyX's features: Fast authoring, beautifully typeset output, easy and beautiful equations, greatly favors styles-based authoring and disfavors fingerpainting. #5: Your document seems to be targetted at an audience who has been using MS Word and is unfamiliar with LyX. You might want to add in a few places "after a few weeks using LyX you'll view it more like ..." This was an excellent piece of documentation. I've used LyX ten years, and didn't know about the microtype package until reading about it in your document. Thank you! SteveT On Tuesday, October 18, 2011 12:41:35 PM Virgil Arrington wrote: > If it's helpful, attached is a booklet I wrote about LyX. I > prepared it as an exercise in order to learn how to use LyX. > > After performing this exercise, I would definitely try using LyX or > a plain LaTeX editor for a thesis. > > But, before doing so, I would definitely read the LyX Introduction > and Tutorial in the Help menu. That will save you a lot of > heartache. > > Virgil > > -Original Message- > From: Johnston81 > Sent: Monday, October 17, 2011 12:49 PM > To: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org > Subject: Engineering student considering LyX for Thesis > > To the ones that can and will help, > > I apologize if this has already been covered in another topic; I > have searched but been unable to find any such. If, however, you > know of such topics, if you could please point me in the right > direction? > > My current situation is this: I am working on my Master Thesis and > currently doing my research and such. As it is now, I am uncertain > how large my final project will be - I imagine that the final > document will probably exceed 100 pages, but where I am uncertain > of size I am certain that the document will contain considerable > amounts of graphs and tables - rather more than I am comfortable > working with in Word 2010. > > My questions are fairly simple to ask, I am not certain that > everybody will agree on the answers but rough estimates are all I > am looking for anyway. So here goes: > > 1. Considering LyX over Word, how much time would I approximately > need to learn LyX to the extent that I can actually produce text, > including graphics and formulas(!), from a template? > 2. What can I reasonably expect my learning curve to be after > having learned the bare basics; what I mean is, is it simple to > teach LyX to oneself and how easy is it to solve problems when > encountered? > 3. And finally, being a skilled user of Word would I - ultimately - > save or spend time if I did try my luck on LyX? > > I have many more similar questions, but for now this will have to > do - I shouldn't take to much of your time! But if you have any > other advice or experiences that relate to my post, that you feel >
Re: Engineering student considering LyX for Thesis
On Tuesday, October 18, 2011 07:04:41 AM Hannu Vuolasaho wrote: > Hi! > > I'm also writing my thesis with Lyx. My biggest problem is .doc > template. If I open it on Libreoffice, OpenOffice or MS Office > with different versions I get subtle changes in printout. > > For example vertical space before image might change little and > lines length differ. Then there is the typesetting in Lyx. Lyx' > fonts are generally more readable than Office programs due proper > kerning. > > Now the problem comes. What is the right layout and how I reproduce > it with Lyx. If there is trick please tell to list also. Hi Hannu, The right layout is whatever your professor says it is. As far as how to reproduce that layout, my best advice is, for the frontmatter, use either ERT (Embedded LaTeX) or simple customized environments to reproduce the desired layout. DO NOT rely on your document class's default title, date, author etc -- that's walking the trail of tears. For the interior of the book, use only styles, try hard not to use ERT. Having been on this list for ten years I've seen a lot of questions from thesis writers. I'd say 90% of the difficulties have been satisfying requirements for the frontmatter, headers/footers, or bibliography/cites/references. Only 10% were for the interior of the mainmatter. The frontmatter is best (and fairly easily) done with ERT, headers and footers are well known as how to accomplish them (fancyfooters), and it seems the bibliography/cites/references problems have been soluble. HTH SteveT Steve Litt Author: The Key to Everyday Excellence http://www.troubleshooters.com/bookstore/key_excellence.htm Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/stevelitt
Re: Engineering student considering LyX for Thesis
On Tuesday 18 October 2011 20:49:55 Virgil Arrington wrote: > Here's the LyX file. Thanks a lot, that helps quite a bit (eg the content of the preamble) Wolfgang > > I've never used the Wiki, but I'll try to figure it out and post it > there as well. > > Virgil > > > Hi, Virgil, > > I enjoyed your booklet about LyX. Would you also share the lyx file > with the community? That would be the best way of learning for a > beginner.
Re: Engineering student considering LyX for Thesis
Here's the LyX file. I've never used the Wiki, but I'll try to figure it out and post it there as well. Virgil Hi, Virgil, I enjoyed your booklet about LyX. Would you also share the lyx file with the community? That would be the best way of learning for a beginner. Lyx-Booklet.lyx Description: application/lyx
Re: Engineering student considering LyX for Thesis
On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 8:14 PM, Wolfgang Engelmann wrote: > On Tuesday 18 October 2011 18:41:35 Virgil Arrington wrote: >> If it's helpful, attached is a booklet I wrote about LyX. I prepared it >> as an exercise in order to learn how to use LyX. >> >> After performing this exercise, I would definitely try using LyX or a >> plain LaTeX editor for a thesis. >> >> But, before doing so, I would definitely read the LyX Introduction and >> Tutorial in the Help menu. That will save you a lot of heartache. >> >> Virgil > > Hi, Virgil, > > I enjoyed your booklet about LyX. Would you also share the lyx file with > the community? That would be the best way of learning for a beginner. > Best would be to publish on the wiki [1], I think. Liviu [1] http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/Tutorials > Wolfgang >> >> -Original Message- >> From: Johnston81 >> Sent: Monday, October 17, 2011 12:49 PM >> To: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org >> Subject: Engineering student considering LyX for Thesis >> >> To the ones that can and will help, >> >> I apologize if this has already been covered in another topic; I have >> searched but been unable to find any such. If, however, you know of such >> topics, if you could please point me in the right direction? >> >> My current situation is this: I am working on my Master Thesis and >> currently doing my research and such. As it is now, I am uncertain how >> large my final project will be - I imagine that the final document will >> probably exceed 100 pages, but where I am uncertain of size I am >> certain that the document will contain considerable amounts of graphs >> and tables - rather more than I am comfortable working with in Word >> 2010. >> >> My questions are fairly simple to ask, I am not certain that everybody >> will agree on the answers but rough estimates are all I am looking for >> anyway. So here goes: >> >> 1. Considering LyX over Word, how much time would I approximately need >> to learn LyX to the extent that I can actually produce text, including >> graphics and formulas(!), from a template? >> 2. What can I reasonably expect my learning curve to be after having >> learned the bare basics; what I mean is, is it simple to teach LyX to >> oneself and how easy is it to solve problems when encountered? >> 3. And finally, being a skilled user of Word would I - ultimately - save >> or spend time if I did try my luck on LyX? >> >> I have many more similar questions, but for now this will have to do - I >> shouldn't take to much of your time! But if you have any other advice or >> experiences that relate to my post, that you feel could help me or >> others that are doing the same kind of contemplations, please do not >> hesitate and do share! >> >> Thank you very much for time. I look forward to read your replies! >> >> Johnston81 >> >> -- >> View this message in context: >> http://lyx.475766.n2.nabble.com/Engineering-student-considering-LyX-for- >> Thesis-tp6901371p6901371.html Sent from the LyX - Users mailing list >> archive at Nabble.com. > -- Do you know how to read? http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader Do you know how to write? http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail
Re: Engineering student considering LyX for Thesis
On Tuesday 18 October 2011 18:41:35 Virgil Arrington wrote: > If it's helpful, attached is a booklet I wrote about LyX. I prepared it > as an exercise in order to learn how to use LyX. > > After performing this exercise, I would definitely try using LyX or a > plain LaTeX editor for a thesis. > > But, before doing so, I would definitely read the LyX Introduction and > Tutorial in the Help menu. That will save you a lot of heartache. > > Virgil Hi, Virgil, I enjoyed your booklet about LyX. Would you also share the lyx file with the community? That would be the best way of learning for a beginner. Wolfgang > > -Original Message- > From: Johnston81 > Sent: Monday, October 17, 2011 12:49 PM > To: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org > Subject: Engineering student considering LyX for Thesis > > To the ones that can and will help, > > I apologize if this has already been covered in another topic; I have > searched but been unable to find any such. If, however, you know of such > topics, if you could please point me in the right direction? > > My current situation is this: I am working on my Master Thesis and > currently doing my research and such. As it is now, I am uncertain how > large my final project will be - I imagine that the final document will > probably exceed 100 pages, but where I am uncertain of size I am > certain that the document will contain considerable amounts of graphs > and tables - rather more than I am comfortable working with in Word > 2010. > > My questions are fairly simple to ask, I am not certain that everybody > will agree on the answers but rough estimates are all I am looking for > anyway. So here goes: > > 1. Considering LyX over Word, how much time would I approximately need > to learn LyX to the extent that I can actually produce text, including > graphics and formulas(!), from a template? > 2. What can I reasonably expect my learning curve to be after having > learned the bare basics; what I mean is, is it simple to teach LyX to > oneself and how easy is it to solve problems when encountered? > 3. And finally, being a skilled user of Word would I - ultimately - save > or spend time if I did try my luck on LyX? > > I have many more similar questions, but for now this will have to do - I > shouldn't take to much of your time! But if you have any other advice or > experiences that relate to my post, that you feel could help me or > others that are doing the same kind of contemplations, please do not > hesitate and do share! > > Thank you very much for time. I look forward to read your replies! > > Johnston81 > > -- > View this message in context: > http://lyx.475766.n2.nabble.com/Engineering-student-considering-LyX-for- > Thesis-tp6901371p6901371.html Sent from the LyX - Users mailing list > archive at Nabble.com.
RE: Engineering student considering LyX for Thesis
Hi! I'm also writing my thesis with Lyx. My biggest problem is .doc template. If I open it on Libreoffice, OpenOffice or MS Office with different versions I get subtle changes in printout. For example vertical space before image might change little and lines length differ. Then there is the typesetting in Lyx. Lyx' fonts are generally more readable than Office programs due proper kerning. Now the problem comes. What is the right layout and how I reproduce it with Lyx. If there is trick please tell to list also. Also references are different. I never learned bibtext enough to give right style of reference list. Now I have page which is list of my references and then I cross-reference to them. It is also irritating that you can't cross reference to say Fig 1 without labeling it. Or have I missed something? And last thing. I'm not professional with Lyx and I still learn a lot with it. And problems that I mentionned might not be real problems. I haven't just found solutions yet. Best regards, Hannu Vuolasaho
Re: Engineering student considering LyX for Thesis
I have written my 300 pages thesis completely in LyX, with many tables, equations and figures. It is not really a problem if you can work on one of the standard classes, like Memoir. If you have to adapt to a particular format/layout it can be a hell at the beginning, but afterwards it will become as natural as if you are using a standard class. Use master/child documents, create the preamble in a separate file and include it in every document and you will be capable of making a huge document with no appreciable lost of performance. Good luck. - Julio Rojas jcredbe...@gmail.com On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 12:01 PM, Helge Hafting wrote: > On 17. okt. 2011 18:49, Johnston81 wrote: > [...] >> >> My current situation is this: I am working on my Master Thesis and >> currently >> doing my research and such. As it is now, I am uncertain how large my >> final >> project will be - I imagine that the final document will probably exceed >> 100 >> pages, but where I am uncertain of size I am certain that the document >> will >> contain considerable amounts of graphs and tables - rather more than I am >> comfortable working with in Word 2010. >> > LyX has no problem with size. > > Some things may get slower with a really big document, but it is still > perfectly stable. Big does not cause crashes, big does not cause faults. > Cross references and table of contents will still be correct - everytime. > > I have written a 284 page book - no problem. Writing your thesis may be > a lot of work - but the work will be on the thesis, not on LyX issues with a > large document full of graphs. > > You will have to learn LyX of course. Simply writing, and adding tables, > formulas and figures is easy. If there are very specific formatting > requirements, then that may be tricky. In such cases, look at the user guide > first, and ask here if the guide is not enough. > > As for size - I have created "torture test" documents of 1600 and 4 > pages. The 4 page document is slow to navigate, but it works. Still no > crashes. > > The LyX User guide is over 160 pages. And it uses most LyX features. > Experiment with that, if you worry about size issues. :-) > > Reformatting a big document is usually no problem. You can change > the margins or paper size for a 100-page document and expect no problems. > (Well, a figure/table too big for the new paper size will need > some attention.) > >> My questions are fairly simple to ask, I am not certain that everybody >> will >> agree on the answers but rough estimates are all I am looking for anyway. >> So >> here goes: >> >> 1. Considering LyX over Word, how much time would I approximately need to >> learn LyX to the extent that I can actually produce text, including >> graphics >> and formulas(!), from a template? > > All that is easy stuff. Writing plain text in LyX is as easy as in word. > When you need a heading, you select a heading from a drop-down list. > Similiar for bullet points and such. (There are also keyboard > shortcuts to speed things up, but that can wait.) > > Including graphichs can be as simple as menu "Insert->Graphics", then type > the file name (or select it) in a dialog. you can also set the > size of your graphic in the same dialog. > > Usually, one put a figure in something called a "float". This allow better > page breaking, and cross references. (I.e. you can have LyX > produce references like "figure 17 on page 62", and the numbers will always > be right. Even if you write some more pages at the beginning...) > > Formulas is an area where LyX is better than word. You can put together any > formula you can imagine, using menus and toolbars. Using toolbars is the > easy (but somewhat slow) way. If you write lots of math, learn some of the > speed shortcuts. Like typing "\alpha" instead of picking the alpha symbol > from the toolbar everytime. > > How much time you will need is hard to say. But you are an engineering > student, so learning the easier sides of LyX will likely be quick. > > You should be able to write text with formulas and figures the first day. > Becoming good at LyX takes longer, of course. > >> 2. What can I reasonably expect my learning curve to be after having >> learned >> the bare basics; what I mean is, is it simple to teach LyX to oneself and >> how easy is it to solve problems when encountered? > > LyX comes with documentation full of examples. You can look at the samples > for stuff you want, or even cut&paste from them. > >> 3. And finally, being a skilled user of Word would I - ultimately - save >> or >> spend time if I did try my luck on LyX? >> > For something as big as a thesis, I believe the time needed to learn LyX > will be saved. You say you don't want to do a big document in word - and > that says it all really. You will need some learning, but size won't be the > problem. And the printout will likely look better than anything made in word > anyway. Well, adding some decorations
Re: Engineering student considering LyX for Thesis
On 17. okt. 2011 18:49, Johnston81 wrote: [...] My current situation is this: I am working on my Master Thesis and currently doing my research and such. As it is now, I am uncertain how large my final project will be - I imagine that the final document will probably exceed 100 pages, but where I am uncertain of size I am certain that the document will contain considerable amounts of graphs and tables - rather more than I am comfortable working with in Word 2010. LyX has no problem with size. Some things may get slower with a really big document, but it is still perfectly stable. Big does not cause crashes, big does not cause faults. Cross references and table of contents will still be correct - everytime. I have written a 284 page book - no problem. Writing your thesis may be a lot of work - but the work will be on the thesis, not on LyX issues with a large document full of graphs. You will have to learn LyX of course. Simply writing, and adding tables, formulas and figures is easy. If there are very specific formatting requirements, then that may be tricky. In such cases, look at the user guide first, and ask here if the guide is not enough. As for size - I have created "torture test" documents of 1600 and 4 pages. The 4 page document is slow to navigate, but it works. Still no crashes. The LyX User guide is over 160 pages. And it uses most LyX features. Experiment with that, if you worry about size issues. :-) Reformatting a big document is usually no problem. You can change the margins or paper size for a 100-page document and expect no problems. (Well, a figure/table too big for the new paper size will need some attention.) My questions are fairly simple to ask, I am not certain that everybody will agree on the answers but rough estimates are all I am looking for anyway. So here goes: 1. Considering LyX over Word, how much time would I approximately need to learn LyX to the extent that I can actually produce text, including graphics and formulas(!), from a template? All that is easy stuff. Writing plain text in LyX is as easy as in word. When you need a heading, you select a heading from a drop-down list. Similiar for bullet points and such. (There are also keyboard shortcuts to speed things up, but that can wait.) Including graphichs can be as simple as menu "Insert->Graphics", then type the file name (or select it) in a dialog. you can also set the size of your graphic in the same dialog. Usually, one put a figure in something called a "float". This allow better page breaking, and cross references. (I.e. you can have LyX produce references like "figure 17 on page 62", and the numbers will always be right. Even if you write some more pages at the beginning...) Formulas is an area where LyX is better than word. You can put together any formula you can imagine, using menus and toolbars. Using toolbars is the easy (but somewhat slow) way. If you write lots of math, learn some of the speed shortcuts. Like typing "\alpha" instead of picking the alpha symbol from the toolbar everytime. How much time you will need is hard to say. But you are an engineering student, so learning the easier sides of LyX will likely be quick. You should be able to write text with formulas and figures the first day. Becoming good at LyX takes longer, of course. 2. What can I reasonably expect my learning curve to be after having learned the bare basics; what I mean is, is it simple to teach LyX to oneself and how easy is it to solve problems when encountered? LyX comes with documentation full of examples. You can look at the samples for stuff you want, or even cut&paste from them. 3. And finally, being a skilled user of Word would I - ultimately - save or spend time if I did try my luck on LyX? For something as big as a thesis, I believe the time needed to learn LyX will be saved. You say you don't want to do a big document in word - and that says it all really. You will need some learning, but size won't be the problem. And the printout will likely look better than anything made in word anyway. Well, adding some decorations in word *is* easier, but word fall apart on more basic stuff like line breaking. (There is a reason word defaults to ragged right margins, straight margins is simply hard to do well. But LyX does it.) I have many more similar questions, but for now this will have to do - I shouldn't take to much of your time! But if you have any other advice or experiences that relate to my post, that you feel could help me or others that are doing the same kind of contemplations, please do not hesitate and do share! Some differences: 1. The menu system is obviously different. And there is no ruler. 2. You do everything with styles. You hardly ever select fonts or point sizes. This is good, because then the font will never be wrong. 3. Your document will *not* be broken into pages in the editor. So you can't see "where on the page" something
Re: Engineering student considering LyX for Thesis
2011/10/17 Johnston81 : > To the ones that can and will help, > > I apologize if this has already been covered in another topic; I have > searched but been unable to find any such. If, however, you know of such > topics, if you could please point me in the right direction? > > My current situation is this: I am working on my Master Thesis and currently > doing my research and such. As it is now, I am uncertain how large my final > project will be - I imagine that the final document will probably exceed 100 > pages, but where I am uncertain of size I am certain that the document will > contain considerable amounts of graphs and tables - rather more than I am > comfortable working with in Word 2010. > > My questions are fairly simple to ask, I am not certain that everybody will > agree on the answers but rough estimates are all I am looking for anyway. So > here goes: > > 1. Considering LyX over Word, how much time would I approximately need to > learn LyX to the extent that I can actually produce text, including graphics > and formulas(!), from a template? > 2. What can I reasonably expect my learning curve to be after having learned > the bare basics; what I mean is, is it simple to teach LyX to oneself and > how easy is it to solve problems when encountered? > 3. And finally, being a skilled user of Word would I - ultimately - save or > spend time if I did try my luck on LyX? > > I have many more similar questions, but for now this will have to do - I > shouldn't take to much of your time! But if you have any other advice or > experiences that relate to my post, that you feel could help me or others > that are doing the same kind of contemplations, please do not hesitate and > do share! I started learning LyX just before I started writing my masters thesis. Most what I've learnt I learnt during writing it. One of the best advantages was ability to work on text both on Windows and Linux without any problems (in terms of text - images were converted differently so results of PDF output were different; however I choose one platform to produce final publication and tweak all images for it). One of LaTeX disadvantages under modern Linux is that on Windows (thanks to MikTeX) you almost always has access to most recent releases of TeX packages. While Linux distributions are tied to particular versions of TeXLive which is most of the time the very old version (case of Ubuntu Natty is one of examples). So it requires more manual intervention to build new TeXLive for own use. Time spent to learn LyX & LaTeX better was similar to time spent on fixing Word bad behaviour - I can compare as I wrote my bachelors thesis in Word. The results coming from LyX/LaTeX tandem are far better and predictable. And no graphics disappears in puff of smoke :-) Another advantage of LyX are TOC, Indexes and references in the documents - it is far much easier to manage them in LyX than in Word, even if you have manually add a label to almost every chapter or section. Finally in my opinion the LyX itself is far much technologically advanced than the LaTeX itself. Most of the problems with proper interaction between elements in the output comes from problems with LaTeX. The ideas behind it are very old these days and that status quo changes too slow. -- Manveru jabber: manv...@manveru.pl gg: 1624001 http://www.manveru.pl
Re: Engineering student considering LyX for Thesis
ems when encountered? > 3. And finally, being a skilled user of Word would I - ultimately - save or > spend time if I did try my luck on LyX? > > I have many more similar questions, but for now this will have to do - I > shouldn't take to much of your time! But if you have any other advice or > experiences that relate to my post, that you feel could help me or others > that are doing the same kind of contemplations, please do not hesitate and > do share! > > Thank you very much for time. I look forward to read your replies! > > Johnston81 > > -- > View this message in context: > http://lyx.475766.n2.nabble.com/Engineering-student-considering-LyX-for-Thesis-tp > 6901371p6901371.html > Sent from the LyX - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: Engineering student considering LyX for Thesis
On Monday, October 17, 2011 12:49:53 PM Johnston81 wrote: > To the ones that can and will help, > > I apologize if this has already been covered in another topic; I > have searched but been unable to find any such. If, however, you > know of such topics, if you could please point me in the right > direction? > > My current situation is this: I am working on my Master Thesis and > currently doing my research and such. As it is now, I am uncertain > how large my final project will be - I imagine that the final > document will probably exceed 100 pages, but where I am uncertain > of size I am certain that the document will contain considerable > amounts of graphs and tables - rather more than I am comfortable > working with in Word 2010. > > My questions are fairly simple to ask, I am not certain that > everybody will agree on the answers but rough estimates are all I > am looking for anyway. So here goes: > > 1. Considering LyX over Word, how much time would I approximately > need to learn LyX to the extent that I can actually produce text, > including graphics and formulas(!), from a template? This is actually two different questions with two different answers. If you mean using LyX with a pre-created document class such as Book, Article or Report, and you (and your professor) are willing to use only the document class's existing styles with those styles' existing appearance, the answer is a couple hours. If you need to create styles or change the appearance of styles, that's a completely different question, and my best answer is that I've been using LyX for ten years and I'm still learning more about creating and modifying styles. If you want an easy life in LyX, I'd recommend NOT letting your document class format the Frontmatter, but instead inserting LaTeX (called ERT in LyX Land) to format the frontmatter exactly how your professor wants it. In my opinion however, the mainmatter should be 100% styles based, with no ERT inserted. > 2. What can I reasonably expect my learning curve to be after > having learned the bare basics; what I mean is, is it simple to > teach LyX to oneself and how easy is it to solve problems when > encountered? Same thing -- depends hugely on whether you're creating and reformatting styles. My opinion -- if your professor is satisfied with the default look of your document class, you can start your thesis within 2 hours and learn along the way, being productive constantly. On the other hand, as a newbie, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if it takes you an entire day to create one style. Others will argue with me on this, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it. As time goes on styles-creation and modification become easier and easier. I've written a lot on the subject, starting at this link site: http://www.troubleshooters.com/linux/lyx/index.htm By the way, in LyX speak, an MS Word "Paragraph Style" is called a LyX "Environment", and an MS Word "Character Style" is called a LyX "Character Style". > 3. And finally, being a skilled user of Word would I - ultimately - > save or spend time if I did try my luck on LyX? The best response I can give to this is that my first two books, in 1990 and 1999, were written in WordPerfect 5.1 and Word respectively. I wrote my first LyX book in 2001, and every book I've written since then was written in LyX. Here's my book list: http://www.troubleshooters.com/bookstore/index.htm Your question was about time. Obviously at first you'd lose time switching to LyX, unless of course every single style from the document class is acceptable as-is. As you become more skilled at LyX, I'd say you'd save time with LyX. LyX crashes less. LyX is very stable. With LyX, you get a lot fewer defective documents that you need to troubleshoot. LyX won't let you put in two consecutive spaces or two consecutive carriage returns unless you go out of your way to tell LyX that's what you really want to do, and this rejection of excess spacing has saved me lots of time over the years. LyX doesn't do that "the spreadsheet was embedded before, but now it's not" deal. LyX does nothing but linking, and I like it that way. I think one of the first questions you should put to this list is, which document class would be the best for what you're doing? HTH SteveT Steve Litt Author: The Key to Everyday Excellence http://www.troubleshooters.com/bookstore/key_excellence.htm Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/stevelitt
Re: Engineering student considering LyX for Thesis
On 10/17/2011 12:49 PM, Johnston81 wrote: 1. Considering LyX over Word, how much time would I approximately need to learn LyX to the extent that I can actually produce text, including graphics and formulas(!), from a template? Should be quick. I presume you have some basic programming skills. Not that you need them with LyX, but it would show the ability to easily learn the few special commands you might need. 2. What can I reasonably expect my learning curve to be after having learned the bare basics; what I mean is, is it simple to teach LyX to oneself and how easy is it to solve problems when encountered? Should be easy indeed. There may be special gotcha's with Windows (another questioner had considerable trouble due to the use of absolute path names-- that may be the default under Windows, but I would advise against it), but it always made more sense to me than word or its clones. 3. And finally, being a skilled user of Word would I - ultimately - save or spend time if I did try my luck on LyX?' The problem is that many things will never be easy in Word. Dealing with equations is trivial in LyX, and a headache in Word. Some knowledge of TeX makes it even better. -- David L. Johnson "What am I on? I'm on my bike, six hours a day, busting my ass. What are you on?" --Lance Armstrong
Re: Engineering student considering LyX for Thesis
Well, there is no doubt that math typesetting and float tracking is considerably more robust in TeX, no need to argue about that. The main problem I am constantly encountering when I try to convert people in TeX is the fact that people get easily discouraged by the steep learning curve. And it *is* steep especially if you are coming from a text processing background. My first experience with LyX was when I was trying to switch to TeX in general and it was disastrous. I got so frustrated I gave up. Nowadays, after having used (La)TeX for some years I found my second experience with LyX magical. Everything made sense and worked perfectly. The fact that LyX hides a lot of the horrid TeX markup is both good and bad. It's good because, well, it is more pleasing and eases the transition from word processing, but on the other hand when you start using a bazillion of packages and things break (and *will* break) it is quite difficult to dissect the errors, especially with the cryptic error messages that TeX produces. LyX is a really nice and mature piece of software and supports a great variety of widely used packages. No doubt the people behind it have worked hard to deliver such a nice product. But one should not expect that it magically transforms text into beautiful documents. In my opinion it is *complementary* to TeX and not a replacement. It will definitely get you started to produce documents easily, but if you want to go a step further then it will not write TeX for you; you will need to get your hands dirty. I've written my MSc thesis easily with LyX and it came out quite nice but my preamble was 300 lines long, so you get my point. Fortunately there is a huge amount of resources to help you with your endeavor. :) Spyros On Mon 17 Oct 2011 11:09:27 PM EEST, Les Denham wrote: > On Monday 17 October 2011 11:49:53 Johnston81 wrote: >> 1. Considering LyX over Word, how much time would I approximately need to >> learn LyX to the extent that I can actually produce text, including >> graphics and formulas(!), from a template? > > Assuming you are reasonably fast at learning new things (and I assume you are > as you are in graduate school): ten minutes. > >> 2. What can I reasonably expect my learning curve to be after having >> learned the bare basics; what I mean is, is it simple to teach LyX to >> oneself and how easy is it to solve problems when encountered? > > Most problems are quickly and easily solved. Some -- such as complying > exactly > with very specific formatting directions -- can be extraordinarily difficult. > >> 3. And finally, being a skilled user of Word would I - ultimately - save or >> spend time if I did try my luck on LyX? > > In spite of such a serious handicap I believe you will save a lot of time by > using LyX, as long as you forget all you know about Word. > > I recently sent to printing a 164 page book with figures (mainly photographs) > on nearly every page. I do not think it would be possible to generate a > satisfactory final PDF using Word, but it was relatively easy with LyX. > > Today I finished a 33-page report with 30 figures. My total time for > completing the report was about eight hours, of which 75% was spent > extracting > figures from PowerPoint presentations made by my collaborators and editing > them to look decent. >
Re: Engineering student considering LyX for Thesis
On Monday 17 October 2011 11:49:53 Johnston81 wrote: > 1. Considering LyX over Word, how much time would I approximately need to > learn LyX to the extent that I can actually produce text, including > graphics and formulas(!), from a template? Assuming you are reasonably fast at learning new things (and I assume you are as you are in graduate school): ten minutes. > 2. What can I reasonably expect my learning curve to be after having > learned the bare basics; what I mean is, is it simple to teach LyX to > oneself and how easy is it to solve problems when encountered? Most problems are quickly and easily solved. Some -- such as complying exactly with very specific formatting directions -- can be extraordinarily difficult. > 3. And finally, being a skilled user of Word would I - ultimately - save or > spend time if I did try my luck on LyX? In spite of such a serious handicap I believe you will save a lot of time by using LyX, as long as you forget all you know about Word. I recently sent to printing a 164 page book with figures (mainly photographs) on nearly every page. I do not think it would be possible to generate a satisfactory final PDF using Word, but it was relatively easy with LyX. Today I finished a 33-page report with 30 figures. My total time for completing the report was about eight hours, of which 75% was spent extracting figures from PowerPoint presentations made by my collaborators and editing them to look decent. -- Les Denham Interactive Interpretation & Training, Inc.
Re: Engineering student considering LyX for Thesis
I would second everything that Liviu has said. I'd especially like to amplify his mention of the mailing lists. 90% of the time I've had a problem, I could immediately find mention of it on the lists, and very helpful responses. 10% of the time, I figured it out myself, usually right after asking a question to the list. The people are helpful and pretty prompt, even when questions have to do with LaTeX code instead of LyX-specific stuff. I started using LyX in graduate school, just because it was different and fun, and now I use it for nearly all of my writing. It's immensely powerful for everything from letter-writing to producing long works, and powerful without having to learn a lot of esoteric coding or formatting. I think that trying to use it for a week, just to see if you like it, will be very useful to you in the long run. Curtis O. > >From: Liviu Andronic >To: Johnston81 >Cc: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org >Sent: Monday, October 17, 2011 1:53 PM >Subject: Re: Engineering student considering LyX for Thesis > >On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 6:49 PM, Johnston81 wrote: >> To the ones that can and will help, >> >> I apologize if this has already been covered in another topic; I have >> searched but been unable to find any such. If, however, you know of such >> topics, if you could please point me in the right direction? >> >> My current situation is this: I am working on my Master Thesis and currently >> doing my research and such. As it is now, I am uncertain how large my final >> project will be - I imagine that the final document will probably exceed 100 >> pages, but where I am uncertain of size I am certain that the document will >> contain considerable amounts of graphs and tables - rather more than I am >> comfortable working with in Word 2010. >> >> My questions are fairly simple to ask, I am not certain that everybody will >> agree on the answers but rough estimates are all I am looking for anyway. So >> here goes: >> >> 1. Considering LyX over Word, how much time would I approximately need to >> learn LyX to the extent that I can actually produce text, including graphics >> and formulas(!), from a template? >> >LyX excels and formulas, numbering graphics and at leaving you worry >about writing text instead of constantly tinkering with the >formatting. > >It depends on the effort that you're willing to put in and on your >penchant for technical things. You could get working knowledge in less >than two weeks, I guess, especially if you're up for a challenge >(which you seem to be). > >Once you get used to the LyX (LaTeX) ways of doing things, you will >find that generating a professional-looking document in LyX is much >easier than in Word. And LyX automatically takes care of lots of stuff >that Word will force you to deal with manually. > >For starters, I would suggest to read Help > Intro and Help > Tutorial >along with LyX Essentials [1]. Then, as you get more familiar with >working in LyX take a look at templates for theses, such as File > New >From Template > Thesis (folder) or the one proposed in [1]. There may >be some more on the wiki. Tweak them as needed, and once your happy >with the general document output start filling it in with actual text. > >[1] https://sites.google.com/site/tsewiki/resources/latex > >> 2. What can I reasonably expect my learning curve to be after having learned >> the bare basics; what I mean is, is it simple to teach LyX to oneself and >> how easy is it to solve problems when encountered? >> >Can be, if you put in a decent effort. Once a threshold is passed, LyX >seems (and really is) very easy to use. After you exhausted the usual >documentation Help menu, wiki, LyX Essentials, try your luck on the >very helpful lyx-users. Some forums should be available, too. > > >> 3. And finally, being a skilled user of Word would I - ultimately - save or >> spend time if I did try my luck on LyX? >> >Using LyX would ultimately increase your productivity and improve your >typesetting results. Give it a spin, and if in a week or two you still >feel lost and don't know where to begin with then revert to Word. But >given your interest in this, I feel that you're up to the challenge >and won't need to revert, ever. > > >> I have many more similar questions, but for now this will have to do - I >> shouldn't take to much of your time! But if you have any other advice or >> experiences that relate to my post, that you feel could help me or others >> that are doing the same kind of contemplations, please do not hesitate and >>
Re: Engineering student considering LyX for Thesis
On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 6:49 PM, Johnston81 wrote: > To the ones that can and will help, > > I apologize if this has already been covered in another topic; I have > searched but been unable to find any such. If, however, you know of such > topics, if you could please point me in the right direction? > > My current situation is this: I am working on my Master Thesis and currently > doing my research and such. As it is now, I am uncertain how large my final > project will be - I imagine that the final document will probably exceed 100 > pages, but where I am uncertain of size I am certain that the document will > contain considerable amounts of graphs and tables - rather more than I am > comfortable working with in Word 2010. > > My questions are fairly simple to ask, I am not certain that everybody will > agree on the answers but rough estimates are all I am looking for anyway. So > here goes: > > 1. Considering LyX over Word, how much time would I approximately need to > learn LyX to the extent that I can actually produce text, including graphics > and formulas(!), from a template? > LyX excels and formulas, numbering graphics and at leaving you worry about writing text instead of constantly tinkering with the formatting. It depends on the effort that you're willing to put in and on your penchant for technical things. You could get working knowledge in less than two weeks, I guess, especially if you're up for a challenge (which you seem to be). Once you get used to the LyX (LaTeX) ways of doing things, you will find that generating a professional-looking document in LyX is much easier than in Word. And LyX automatically takes care of lots of stuff that Word will force you to deal with manually. For starters, I would suggest to read Help > Intro and Help > Tutorial along with LyX Essentials [1]. Then, as you get more familiar with working in LyX take a look at templates for theses, such as File > New >From Template > Thesis (folder) or the one proposed in [1]. There may be some more on the wiki. Tweak them as needed, and once your happy with the general document output start filling it in with actual text. [1] https://sites.google.com/site/tsewiki/resources/latex > 2. What can I reasonably expect my learning curve to be after having learned > the bare basics; what I mean is, is it simple to teach LyX to oneself and > how easy is it to solve problems when encountered? > Can be, if you put in a decent effort. Once a threshold is passed, LyX seems (and really is) very easy to use. After you exhausted the usual documentation Help menu, wiki, LyX Essentials, try your luck on the very helpful lyx-users. Some forums should be available, too. > 3. And finally, being a skilled user of Word would I - ultimately - save or > spend time if I did try my luck on LyX? > Using LyX would ultimately increase your productivity and improve your typesetting results. Give it a spin, and if in a week or two you still feel lost and don't know where to begin with then revert to Word. But given your interest in this, I feel that you're up to the challenge and won't need to revert, ever. > I have many more similar questions, but for now this will have to do - I > shouldn't take to much of your time! But if you have any other advice or > experiences that relate to my post, that you feel could help me or others > that are doing the same kind of contemplations, please do not hesitate and > do share! > As far as I'm concerned LyX Essentials is a decent effort in giving true beginners a general sense of how LyX works and how it differs from the Word paradigm. But then, I co-wrote it, so I would be biased. Good luck and feel free to ask questions on this list. Regards Liviu > Thank you very much for time. I look forward to read your replies! > > Johnston81 > > -- > View this message in context: > http://lyx.475766.n2.nabble.com/Engineering-student-considering-LyX-for-Thesis-tp6901371p6901371.html > Sent from the LyX - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > -- Do you know how to read? http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader Do you know how to write? http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail
