Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

2014-03-28 10:25 GMT+01:00 Steven Fredman:

 Hi

 I'm trying to import a new class into LyX. The class and all of it's
 associated files can be found at
 http://labproj.eie.wits.ac.za/labproj/papers/witseie-paper-2005.zip

 I've spent quite a bit of time on Google looking for a method to do this,
 but all of the tutorials are vague and seem to contradict each other - I've
 followed the instructions on a number of them and they don't seem to work.

 Can you please give me a clear set of instructions of how to go about
 adding this type of document.

 I'm running LyX Version 2.0.7 with MiKTeX 2.9.4248 on Windows 8 64-bit.

 Alternatively, is there a better or easier way for me to use the template
 provided?

 Any assistance will be greatly appreciated.


This looks like an article class, so the first step to get it up and
running would be a simple wrapper layout to the standard article class, as
attached. Put this in your Personal LyX directory (as displayed in Help 
About LyX) in a folder called layouts. Then issue Edit  Reconfigure.

This will give you basic support. If you need any further layouts and
features that are not included in the article layout, add it to this layout
file. Look in other article/paper layout files for models or ask here.

HTH
Jürgen





 Thanks
 Kind Regards
 Steven Fredman



whitseiepaper.layout
Description: Binary data

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Mark Salmon]

I totally agree!!!I have wasted so much time trying and given up. Also where
is the best repository for alternative classes- I am using a Mac OSX - like
many Mac users have nearly given up with LyX¹s lack of support for Mac- LyX
is a pleasure when it works but when it doesn¹t it is a total waste of time
and time is something we just don¹t have. The documentation just isn¹t clear
and Mac support is terrible.

From:  Steven Fredman stevenfred...@gmail.com
Date:  Friday, 28 March 2014 09:25
To:  lyx-users@lists.lyx.org
Subject:  Adding new class into LyX

Hi

I'm trying to import a new class into LyX. The class and all of it's
associated files can be found at
http://labproj.eie.wits.ac.za/labproj/papers/witseie-paper-2005.zip

I've spent quite a bit of time on Google looking for a method to do this,
but all of the tutorials are vague and seem to contradict each other - I've
followed the instructions on a number of them and they don't seem to work.

Can you please give me a clear set of instructions of how to go about adding
this type of document.

I'm running LyX Version 2.0.7 with MiKTeX 2.9.4248 on Windows 8 64-bit.

Alternatively, is there a better or easier way for me to use the template
provided?

Any assistance will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Kind Regards
Steven Fredman

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Stephan Witt]

Am 28.03.2014 um 10:46 schrieb Mark Salmon markhsal...@gmail.com:

 I totally agree!!!I have wasted so much time trying and given up. Also where 
 is the best repository for alternative classes- I am using a Mac OSX - like 
 many Mac users have nearly given up with LyX’s lack of support for Mac- LyX 
 is a pleasure when it works but when it doesn’t it is a total waste of time 
 and time is something we just don’t have. The documentation just isn’t clear 
 and Mac support is terrible.

Would you mind to be more specific? What is terrible?

Stephan

 
 From: Steven Fredman stevenfred...@gmail.com
 Date: Friday, 28 March 2014 09:25
 To: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org
 Subject: Adding new class into LyX
 
 Hi
 
 I'm trying to import a new class into LyX. The class and all of it's 
 associated files can be found at 
 http://labproj.eie.wits.ac.za/labproj/papers/witseie-paper-2005.zip
 
 I've spent quite a bit of time on Google looking for a method to do this, but 
 all of the tutorials are vague and seem to contradict each other - I've 
 followed the instructions on a number of them and they don't seem to work.
 
 Can you please give me a clear set of instructions of how to go about adding 
 this type of document.
 
 I'm running LyX Version 2.0.7 with MiKTeX 2.9.4248 on Windows 8 64-bit.
 
 Alternatively, is there a better or easier way for me to use the template 
 provided?
 
 Any assistance will be greatly appreciated.
 
 Thanks
 Kind Regards
 Steven Fredman

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

2014-03-28 10:46 GMT+01:00 Mark Salmon:

 I totally agree!!!I have wasted so much time trying and given up. Also
 where is the best repository for alternative classes- I am using a Mac OSX
 - like many Mac users have nearly given up with LyX's lack of support for
 Mac- LyX is a pleasure when it works but when it doesn't it is a total
 waste of time and time is something we just don't have.


Aha. And you think the LyX developers, a small group of volunteers, are
blessed with an infinite treasure of free time?

Jürgen

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Murat Yildizoglu]

Don't get vexed so quickly Jürgen :-)  The users should be able to tell the
problems they meet.

Of course, I find quite excessive to speak of LyX's lack of support for
Mac or total waste of time.

I use LyX under OSX with a lot of pleasure and the fact that you spend time
to make this possible is a bounty for us.

Moreover, this specific problem has no special root in the OSX version, I
think, since the latex classes and the LyX modules are compatible between
all versions.

It is true that writing a module for supporting a new class file is not
very easy, but I do not know how it could be. We must find a way to tell to
the WSYWYM software a way to represent on the screen the new logical
components that are specific to this new class. Scientific Word (a
commercial software costing a LOT money- especially in France) has always
been confronted to the same problem, even if they provided a graphical
style composer (it was not very easy to use either, but I have not tested
it recently, since I have switched to Lyx).

The only point that has maybe been somewhat deficient in the OSX support is
the lack of support of Retina screens (so I am sticking to MacBooks with
1400x900 screens :-)  ), but this is a limitation due to QT if I have
understood well the problem.
Given Nokia's problems, I do not know if the future of QT is very bright
any way... Moreover, there were rumors on the mailing list indicating that
the next version of QT would be Retina-compatible, but I have not followed
this issue further.




2014-03-28 11:09 GMT+01:00 Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org:

 2014-03-28 10:46 GMT+01:00 Mark Salmon:

  I totally agree!!!I have wasted so much time trying and given up. Also
 where is the best repository for alternative classes- I am using a Mac OSX
 - like many Mac users have nearly given up with LyX's lack of support for
 Mac- LyX is a pleasure when it works but when it doesn't it is a total
 waste of time and time is something we just don't have.


 Aha. And you think the LyX developers, a small group of volunteers, are
 blessed with an infinite treasure of free time?

 Jürgen




-- 


*Prof. Murat Yildizoglu*

Note: Please use the following address as such

UNIVERSITE DE BORDEAUX
GREThA (UMR CNRS 5113)
MURAT YILDIZOGLU
16 AVENUE LEON DUGUIT
CS 50057
33608 PESSAC CEDEX
FRANCE

Bureau : E-331

mail: yildi-at-u-bordeaux4.fr

web: yildizoglu.info

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

2014-03-28 11:33 GMT+01:00 Murat Yildizoglu:

 Don't get vexed so quickly Jürgen :-)  The users should be able to tell
 the problems they meet.


Sure, but in a constructive way. We cannot fix a total waste of time and
terrible support.


 It is true that writing a module for supporting a new class file is not
 very easy, but I do not know how it could be. We must find a way to tell to
 the WSYWYM software a way to represent on the screen the new logical
 components that are specific to this new class. Scientific Word (a
 commercial software costing a LOT money- especially in France) has always
 been confronted to the same problem, even if they provided a graphical
 style composer (it was not very easy to use either, but I have not tested
 it recently, since I have switched to Lyx).


Sure. We all want some graphical tool to setup layout files. There even
were attempts to do so. But then, we are about 7 persons in the core team,
all of has have a job and a career, so it is a it is in OSS: Things get
implemented if someone finds the time and interest.

OTOH, I think LyX has a great community. Usually, if someone requests for
help with setting up a layout, he gets help within the same day. I have
responded the OP within minutes, even though I actually have a paper to
write myself at this very moment (where the deadline has passed already).

So with all respect to wishes and dreams, my understanding for such
unconstructive rants is rather limited.

Jürgen

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Mark Salmon]

Aplogies for lack of immediate  response - I had to teach. I have had
frustrations with Lyx  ever since I moved from SciWord several years ago.
Yesterday I upgraded to the latest beta and now when I try and load up a New
file I get the error message that there is no begin document command when
there clearly is in the source file- I wasted half a day trying to work out
what was wrong- in fact I still don¹t know what was wrong but by removing
use theme warsaw from the Latex preamble it works for some reason- secondly
the installation on MacOSx does not drop the relevant files -templates  etc.
in the right places where the system can find them ‹- so when I ask for a
New from template I am told the file will not compile as it requires
external files which are not available.etc. Etc. etc. can you understand how
frustrating this is when you are under pressure???  I am not a TeX speaker
but someone who needs to use the wonderful system that  you have helped to
create in a professional context. HoweverŠ. It is just a real pain that it
does not work properly on a Mac largely because of install problems I
believe. I fully understand your effort and all those who along with you
have helped create Lyx in the form it is today ­ thank you- but that is not
the point ­ nobody should put any software out to the public which does not
work as it should­ my time as yours is valuable. It is simply not
professional.
Mark

From:  Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org
Date:  Friday, 28 March 2014 10:44
To:  Murat Yildizoglu murat.yildizo...@u-bordeaux4.fr
Cc:  Mark Salmon markhsal...@gmail.com, Steven Fredman
stevenfred...@gmail.com, LyX Users List lyx-users@lists.lyx.org
Subject:  Re: Adding new class into LyX

2014-03-28 11:33 GMT+01:00 Murat Yildizoglu:
 Don't get vexed so quickly Jürgen :-)  The users should be able to tell the
 problems they meet.

Sure, but in a constructive way. We cannot fix a total waste of time and
terrible support.
 
 It is true that writing a module for supporting a new class file is not very
 easy, but I do not know how it could be. We must find a way to tell to the
 WSYWYM software a way to represent on the screen the new logical components
 that are specific to this new class. Scientific Word (a commercial software
 costing a LOT money- especially in France) has always been confronted to the
 same problem, even if they provided a graphical style composer (it was not
 very easy to use either, but I have not tested it recently, since I have
 switched to Lyx).

Sure. We all want some graphical tool to setup layout files. There even were
attempts to do so. But then, we are about 7 persons in the core team, all of
has have a job and a career, so it is a it is in OSS: Things get implemented
if someone finds the time and interest.

OTOH, I think LyX has a great community. Usually, if someone requests for
help with setting up a layout, he gets help within the same day. I have
responded the OP within minutes, even though I actually have a paper to
write myself at this very moment (where the deadline has passed already).

So with all respect to wishes and dreams, my understanding for such
unconstructive rants is rather limited.

Jürgen

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

2014-03-28 13:58 GMT+01:00 Mark Salmon markhsal...@gmail.com:

 Aplogies for lack of immediate  response - I had to teach. I have had
 frustrations with Lyx  ever since I moved from SciWord several years ago.
 Yesterday I upgraded to the latest beta and now when I try and load up a
 New file I get the error message that there is no begin document command
 when there clearly is in the source file- I wasted half a day trying to
 work out what was wrong- in fact I still don't know what was wrong but by
 removing use theme warsaw from the Latex preamble it works for some reason-
 secondly the installation on MacOSx does not drop the relevant files
 -templates  etc. in the right places where the system can find them --- so
 when I ask for a New from template I am told the file will not compile as
 it requires external files which are not available.etc. Etc. etc. can you
 understand how frustrating this is when you are under pressure???  I am not
 a TeX speaker but someone who needs to use the wonderful system that  you
 have helped to create in a professional context. However It is just a
 real pain that it does not work properly on a Mac largely because of
 install problems I believe. I fully understand your effort and all those
 who along with you have helped create Lyx in the form it is today - thank
 you- but that is not the point - nobody should put any software out to the
 public which does not work as it should- my time as yours is valuable. It
 is simply not professional.


1. If you install beta software, be aware that it is beta software. The
announcement of LyX 2.1beta and LyX 2.1rc clearly state that this release
is for testing purposes only, users are encouraged to use current 2.0
stable release for any serious work.

2. LyX is a community project, not a commercial product. The developers are
all volunteers and have jobs (I am, as you, a researcher and teacher at the
university). So if you do not have time to give at least constructive
feedback (one way of participating), then use commercial software and pay
for the support.

Regards
Jürgen



 Mark

 From: Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org
 Date: Friday, 28 March 2014 10:44
 To: Murat Yildizoglu murat.yildizo...@u-bordeaux4.fr
 Cc: Mark Salmon markhsal...@gmail.com, Steven Fredman 
 stevenfred...@gmail.com, LyX Users List lyx-users@lists.lyx.org
 Subject: Re: Adding new class into LyX

 2014-03-28 11:33 GMT+01:00 Murat Yildizoglu:

 Don't get vexed so quickly Jürgen :-)  The users should be able to tell
 the problems they meet.


 Sure, but in a constructive way. We cannot fix a total waste of time and
 terrible support.


 It is true that writing a module for supporting a new class file is not
 very easy, but I do not know how it could be. We must find a way to tell to
 the WSYWYM software a way to represent on the screen the new logical
 components that are specific to this new class. Scientific Word (a
 commercial software costing a LOT money- especially in France) has always
 been confronted to the same problem, even if they provided a graphical
 style composer (it was not very easy to use either, but I have not tested
 it recently, since I have switched to Lyx).


 Sure. We all want some graphical tool to setup layout files. There even
 were attempts to do so. But then, we are about 7 persons in the core team,
 all of has have a job and a career, so it is a it is in OSS: Things get
 implemented if someone finds the time and interest.

 OTOH, I think LyX has a great community. Usually, if someone requests for
 help with setting up a layout, he gets help within the same day. I have
 responded the OP within minutes, even though I actually have a paper to
 write myself at this very moment (where the deadline has passed already).

 So with all respect to wishes and dreams, my understanding for such
 unconstructive rants is rather limited.

 Jürgen

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Murat Yildizoglu]

Mark,

I understand your frustrations, but these installation discrepancies are
small problems, and they are perfectly known normally by the users (you can
search the mail list, and you will find these problems there and solutions
to them). So you have not been cheated by a commercial vendor hiding from
you the deficiencies of the product he sells (see below on your
responsibilities as a user, from my point of view as a user)...

There was also a lot of discussion about the big rewriting of the BEAMER
module in the previous beta version. This is a big change, but it goes in
the correct direction, even if each of us had to take sometime to get used
to the new standard. You should read the documentation on the new beamer
module. My beamer slides from much older versions of LyX have nearly all
been imported without any big problems (including elements in the preamble,
but see the end of this paragraph). You sometime need to add a separation
at the end of a slide, and eliminate instructions - old tricks - that are
not necessary in the newer versions of beamer.

In any case, this is a software developed by a community of dedicated
developers with limited resources, as J ürgen reminds it in his message.
And I am grateful to them that they indeed put this software out to the
public, to which I belong (I am mainly a user).

Communities developing open source softs cannot just reply take it or
leave it to users who formulate criticisms, but these users have also the
responsibility of taking time to collect some information about the soft
before adopting it  (because adopting a new software is a time consuming
process, whatever is the software - commercial like SWP or not), and of
making suggestions of amelioration for the soft, when they have new needs,
instead of flaming the community with their definitive improductive
judgements.

I hope that you will quickly solve your problems.

Murat


2014-03-28 13:58 GMT+01:00 Mark Salmon markhsal...@gmail.com:

 Aplogies for lack of immediate  response - I had to teach. I have had
 frustrations with Lyx  ever since I moved from SciWord several years ago.
 Yesterday I upgraded to the latest beta and now when I try and load up a
 New file I get the error message that there is no begin document command
 when there clearly is in the source file- I wasted half a day trying to
 work out what was wrong- in fact I still don't know what was wrong but by
 removing use theme warsaw from the Latex preamble it works for some reason-
 secondly the installation on MacOSx does not drop the relevant files
 -templates  etc. in the right places where the system can find them --- so
 when I ask for a New from template I am told the file will not compile as
 it requires external files which are not available.etc. Etc. etc. can you
 understand how frustrating this is when you are under pressure???  I am not
 a TeX speaker but someone who needs to use the wonderful system that  you
 have helped to create in a professional context. However It is just a
 real pain that it does not work properly on a Mac largely because of
 install problems I believe. I fully understand your effort and all those
 who along with you have helped create Lyx in the form it is today - thank
 you- but that is not the point - nobody should put any software out to the
 public which does not work as it should- my time as yours is valuable. It
 is simply not professional.
 Mark

 From: Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org
 Date: Friday, 28 March 2014 10:44
 To: Murat Yildizoglu murat.yildizo...@u-bordeaux4.fr
 Cc: Mark Salmon markhsal...@gmail.com, Steven Fredman 
 stevenfred...@gmail.com, LyX Users List lyx-users@lists.lyx.org
 Subject: Re: Adding new class into LyX

 2014-03-28 11:33 GMT+01:00 Murat Yildizoglu:

 Don't get vexed so quickly Jürgen :-)  The users should be able to tell
 the problems they meet.


 Sure, but in a constructive way. We cannot fix a total waste of time and
 terrible support.


 It is true that writing a module for supporting a new class file is not
 very easy, but I do not know how it could be. We must find a way to tell to
 the WSYWYM software a way to represent on the screen the new logical
 components that are specific to this new class. Scientific Word (a
 commercial software costing a LOT money- especially in France) has always
 been confronted to the same problem, even if they provided a graphical
 style composer (it was not very easy to use either, but I have not tested
 it recently, since I have switched to Lyx).


 Sure. We all want some graphical tool to setup layout files. There even
 were attempts to do so. But then, we are about 7 persons in the core team,
 all of has have a job and a career, so it is a it is in OSS: Things get
 implemented if someone finds the time and interest.

 OTOH, I think LyX has a great community. Usually, if someone requests for
 help with setting up a layout, he gets help within the same day. I have
 responded the OP within minutes, even though I actually

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

2014-03-28 14:42 GMT+01:00 Anders Ekberg a...@mac.com:

 Anyway, if I try to reproduce on a freshly installed 2.1rc1 on a Mac by
 taking the elsarticle template, i get an error that
 ../examples/biblioExample.bib is not found. (I assume the reason is that
 the template resides in ~/Library/Application Support/Lyx-2.1/templates/
 but gets moved to ~/Documents/ when you create a new file.


Thanks for the report. This looks like another instance of
http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/8643

I've added a note to that ticket.

Jürgen

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Murat Yildizoglu]

Mark,
J urgen has already replied your question: the community of developers and
their resources are limited, and they do what they can to provide us with
the best LyX they can.
It is really not a big problem for a user (that is, to someone possessing
all necessary user rights on his/her Mac's OSX) to go inside the LyX bundle
and copy the templates folder to some other folder and give it to LyX as a
parameter in the preferences. If the installation process does not do this,
I conclude that this is not easy for the developers and that there are
other priorities for the usability of the software. The user can search the
answers by the community to get this simple solution and implement it.

If community managed software with its specific constraints (which does not
exclude the possibility of suggesting developments, supporting them
sometime, and contributing yourself if you can) is not convenient for you,
you should use other types of software  (but be prepared to be disappointed
because commercial software companies are not reputed to react more quickly
then LyX developers to my experience (including Microsoft and MacKichan -
even the community is very nice in this last case, but again with the
constraints of a community ;-)  ).

I will stop here, because I have shared everything I can share with you on
this point.

Best regards,

Murat



2014-03-28 14:53 GMT+01:00 Mark Salmon markhsal...@gmail.com:

 Murat
 Thank you for your reply. If these problems which have frustrated me and
 wasted my time-- are well known by other users and there are solutions to
 them  as you say --- then WHY have the solutions not been embedded in the
 latest beta?
 I understand software development issues and the need to update as changes
 are made but my comment above remains- as a simple user I need to be able
 to use the software- if there are well know problems in the software on
 particular platforms then surely the developers have a responsibility to
 remove them when the  software is upgraded? This applies equally to open
 source community based as to commercial software.
 Mark

 From: Murat Yildizoglu murat.yildizo...@u-bordeaux4.fr
 Date: Friday, 28 March 2014 13:39
 To: Mark Salmon markhsal...@gmail.com
 Cc: Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org, Murat Yildizoglu 
 murat.yildizo...@u-bordeaux4.fr, LyX Users List lyx-users@lists.lyx.org

 Subject: Re: Adding new class into LyX

 Mark,

 I understand your frustrations, but these installation discrepancies are
 small problems, and they are perfectly known normally by the users (you can
 search the mail list, and you will find these problems there and solutions
 to them). So you have not been cheated by a commercial vendor hiding from
 you the deficiencies of the product he sells (see below on your
 responsibilities as a user, from my point of view as a user)...

 There was also a lot of discussion about the big rewriting of the BEAMER
 module in the previous beta version. This is a big change, but it goes in
 the correct direction, even if each of us had to take sometime to get used
 to the new standard. You should read the documentation on the new beamer
 module. My beamer slides from much older versions of LyX have nearly all
 been imported without any big problems (including elements in the preamble,
 but see the end of this paragraph). You sometime need to add a separation
 at the end of a slide, and eliminate instructions - old tricks - that are
 not necessary in the newer versions of beamer.

 In any case, this is a software developed by a community of dedicated
 developers with limited resources, as J ürgen reminds it in his message.
 And I am grateful to them that they indeed put this software out to the
 public, to which I belong (I am mainly a user).

 Communities developing open source softs cannot just reply take it or
 leave it to users who formulate criticisms, but these users have also the
 responsibility of taking time to collect some information about the soft
 before adopting it  (because adopting a new software is a time consuming
 process, whatever is the software - commercial like SWP or not), and of
 making suggestions of amelioration for the soft, when they have new needs,
 instead of flaming the community with their definitive improductive
 judgements.

 I hope that you will quickly solve your problems.

 Murat


 2014-03-28 13:58 GMT+01:00 Mark Salmon markhsal...@gmail.com:

 Aplogies for lack of immediate  response - I had to teach. I have had
 frustrations with Lyx  ever since I moved from SciWord several years ago.
 Yesterday I upgraded to the latest beta and now when I try and load up a
 New file I get the error message that there is no begin document command
 when there clearly is in the source file- I wasted half a day trying to
 work out what was wrong- in fact I still don't know what was wrong but by
 removing use theme warsaw from the Latex preamble it works for some reason-
 secondly the installation on MacOSx does not drop the relevant files

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

2014-03-28 14:58 GMT+01:00 Jürgen Spitzmüller:

 Thanks for the report. This looks like another instance of
 http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/8643

 I've added a note to that ticket.


And fixed the problem for the next release.

Jürgen




 Jürgen

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

2014-03-28 16:11 GMT+01:00 Anders Ekberg:

 Quoting myself ...  I suspect it could be a bit difficult to solve shows
  either my complete ignorance of programming (which I hope is not correct)
 or your high abilities (which I hope is correct). I am impressed!


I wish you were right with your second statement, but this was really
trivial (and not even a programming task).

Jürgen



 All the best!
 Anders

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Steve Litt]

On Fri, 28 Mar 2014 15:06:11 +0100
Rainer M Krug rai...@krugs.de wrote:


 Hi Mark
 
 This is getting ridiculous. As far as I know, everybody can choose
 their software. If you are not happy with LyX / beamer, use
 Powerpoint.

Exactly. I've never been happy with LyX/beamer, so I either make my
presentations in LibreOffice, or in Beamer using Vim. Everyone uses LyX
for circumstances where they find it the best tool, and use other
software for other purposes.

And I want to thank the developers for the software with which I put
out about 8 books over 13 years. The LyX developers materially improved
my business.

SteveT

Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Steve Litt]

On Fri, 28 Mar 2014 11:33:57 +0100
Murat Yildizoglu murat.yildizo...@u-bordeaux4.fr wrote:

 Don't get vexed so quickly Jürgen :-)  The users should be able to
 tell the problems they meet.
 
 Of course, I find quite excessive to speak of LyX's lack of support
 for Mac or total waste of time.

You think? :-)

Funny, I didn't see an offer from Mark to help make LyX more Mac
friendly, whatever that might mean. I mean, probably most of us don't
even have Macs to test LyX on. I know I don't.

I didn't see Mark fork the project or make an alternative.

He can't help us, he can't forge a new path, so he impotently rants.

I think the LyX project ought to have a page for Apple users explaining
what free software is and isn't, who creates it and why they create it,
and a brief explanation of the fact that Mac users can always buy their
solutions if free software doesn't float their boat.

SteveT

Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Steve Litt]

Hey Mark,

And you're still on this list why?

Don't let the door hit you in the rear end on your way out.

SteveT

On Fri, 28 Mar 2014 09:46:03 +
Mark Salmon markhsal...@gmail.com wrote:

 I totally agree!!!I have wasted so much time trying and given up.
 Also where is the best repository for alternative classes- I am using
 a Mac OSX - like many Mac users have nearly given up with LyX¹s lack
 of support for Mac- LyX is a pleasure when it works but when it
 doesn¹t it is a total waste of time and time is something we just
 don¹t have. The documentation just isn¹t clear and Mac support is
 terrible.
 
 From:  Steven Fredman stevenfred...@gmail.com
 Date:  Friday, 28 March 2014 09:25
 To:  lyx-users@lists.lyx.org
 Subject:  Adding new class into LyX
 
 Hi
 
 I'm trying to import a new class into LyX. The class and all of it's
 associated files can be found at
 http://labproj.eie.wits.ac.za/labproj/papers/witseie-paper-2005.zip
 
 I've spent quite a bit of time on Google looking for a method to do
 this, but all of the tutorials are vague and seem to contradict each
 other - I've followed the instructions on a number of them and they
 don't seem to work.
 
 Can you please give me a clear set of instructions of how to go about
 adding this type of document.
 
 I'm running LyX Version 2.0.7 with MiKTeX 2.9.4248 on Windows 8
 64-bit.
 
 Alternatively, is there a better or easier way for me to use the
 template provided?
 
 Any assistance will be greatly appreciated.
 
 Thanks
 Kind Regards
 Steven Fredman

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Richard Heck]

On 03/28/2014 06:44 AM, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote:

2014-03-28 11:33 GMT+01:00 Murat Yildizoglu:

Don't get vexed so quickly Jürgen :-)  The users should be able to
tell the problems they meet.


Sure, but in a constructive way. We cannot fix a total waste of time 
and terrible support.


It is true that writing a module for supporting a new class file
is not very easy, but I do not know how it could be. We must find
a way to tell to the WSYWYM software a way to represent on the
screen the new logical components that are specific to this new
class. Scientific Word (a commercial software costing a LOT money-
especially in France) has always been confronted to the same
problem, even if they provided a graphical style composer (it was
not very easy to use either, but I have not tested it recently,
since I have switched to Lyx).


Sure. We all want some graphical tool to setup layout files. There 
even were attempts to do so.


Even that does not help that much. You would still have to go through 
the class file, or an example, or whatever, and create the layout. 
That's where the real work is, IMHO, and there is no way around it. No 
one is going to write some program to parse cls files and create layout 
files from them. I'm not ever sure it's possible, in any realistic sense.


People who want LyX to support new class files have to be willing to do 
the work. That's not to say the original poster isn't. But it's silly 
for anyone to expect *us* to do it.


Richard

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Anders Ekberg]

From:  Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org2014-03-28 14:58 GMT+01:00 Jürgen
Spitzmüller:
 Thanks for the report. This looks like another instance of
 http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/8643
 
 I've added a note to that ticket.
 
 And fixed the problem for the next release.
 
 Jürgen

Quoting myself ²Š  I suspect it could be a bit difficult to solve² shows
either my complete ignorance of programming (which I hope is not correct) or
your high abilities (which I hope is correct). I am impressed!

All the best!
Anders

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Rainer M Krug]

Mark Salmon markhsal...@gmail.com writes:

 Murat 
 Thank you for your reply. If these problems which have frustrated me and
 wasted my time‹ are well known by other users and there are solutions to
 them  as you say ‹- then WHY have the solutions not been embedded in the
 latest beta?
 I understand software development issues and the need to update as changes
 are made but my comment above remains- as a simple user I need to be able to
 use the software- if there are well know problems in the software on
 particular platforms then surely the developers have a responsibility to
 remove them when the  software is upgraded? 

Hi Mark

This is getting ridiculous. As far as I know, everybody can choose their
software. If you are not happy with LyX / beamer, use Powerpoint.

The developers of LyX are doing an AWESOME job - and if you think not,
then do it yourself or use another softeware.

Cheers,

Rainer


 This applies equally to open
 source community based as to commercial software.
 Mark

 From:  Murat Yildizoglu murat.yildizo...@u-bordeaux4.fr
 Date:  Friday, 28 March 2014 13:39
 To:  Mark Salmon markhsal...@gmail.com
 Cc:  Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org, Murat Yildizoglu
 murat.yildizo...@u-bordeaux4.fr, LyX Users List lyx-users@lists.lyx.org
 Subject:  Re: Adding new class into LyX

 Mark,

 I understand your frustrations, but these installation discrepancies are
 small problems, and they are perfectly known normally by the users (you can
 search the mail list, and you will find these problems there and solutions
 to them). So you have not been cheated by a commercial vendor hiding from
 you the deficiencies of the product he sells (see below on your
 responsibilities as a user, from my point of view as a user)...

 There was also a lot of discussion about the big rewriting of the BEAMER
 module in the previous beta version. This is a big change, but it goes in
 the correct direction, even if each of us had to take sometime to get used
 to the new standard. You should read the documentation on the new beamer
 module. My beamer slides from much older versions of LyX have nearly all
 been imported without any big problems (including elements in the preamble,
 but see the end of this paragraph). You sometime need to add a separation at
 the end of a slide, and eliminate instructions - old tricks - that are not
 necessary in the newer versions of beamer.

 In any case, this is a software developed by a community of dedicated
 developers with limited resources, as J ürgen reminds it in his message. And
 I am grateful to them that they indeed put this software out to the
 public, to which I belong (I am mainly a user).

 Communities developing open source softs cannot just reply take it or leave
 it to users who formulate criticisms, but these users have also the
 responsibility of taking time to collect some information about the soft
 before adopting it  (because adopting a new software is a time consuming
 process, whatever is the software - commercial like SWP or not), and of
 making suggestions of amelioration for the soft, when they have new needs,
 instead of flaming the community with their definitive improductive
 judgements. 

 I hope that you will quickly solve your problems.

 Murat


 2014-03-28 13:58 GMT+01:00 Mark Salmon markhsal...@gmail.com:
 Aplogies for lack of immediate  response - I had to teach. I have had
 frustrations with Lyx  ever since I moved from SciWord several years ago.
 Yesterday I upgraded to the latest beta and now when I try and load up a New
 file I get the error message that there is no begin document command when
 there clearly is in the source file- I wasted half a day trying to work out
 what was wrong- in fact I still don¹t know what was wrong but by removing use
 theme warsaw from the Latex preamble it works for some reason- secondly the
 installation on MacOSx does not drop the relevant files -templates  etc. in
 the right places where the system can find them ‹- so when I ask for a New
 from template I am told the file will not compile as it requires external
 files which are not available.etc. Etc. etc. can you understand how
 frustrating this is when you are under pressure???  I am not a TeX speaker 
 but
 someone who needs to use the wonderful system that  you have helped to create
 in a professional context. HoweverŠ. It is just a real pain that it does not
 work properly on a Mac largely because of install problems I believe. I fully
 understand your effort and all those who along with you have helped create 
 Lyx
 in the form it is today ­ thank you- but that is not the point ­ nobody 
 should
 put any software out to the public which does not work as it should­ my time
 as yours is valuable. It is simply not professional.
 Mark
 
 From:  Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org
 Date:  Friday, 28 March 2014 10:44
 To:  Murat Yildizoglu murat.yildizo...@u-bordeaux4.fr
 Cc:  Mark Salmon markhsal...@gmail.com, Steven Fredman
 stevenfred...@gmail.com, LyX Users List

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Mark Salmon]

Murat 
Thank you for your reply. If these problems which have frustrated me and
wasted my time‹ are well known by other users and there are solutions to
them  as you say ‹- then WHY have the solutions not been embedded in the
latest beta?
I understand software development issues and the need to update as changes
are made but my comment above remains- as a simple user I need to be able to
use the software- if there are well know problems in the software on
particular platforms then surely the developers have a responsibility to
remove them when the  software is upgraded? This applies equally to open
source community based as to commercial software.
Mark

From:  Murat Yildizoglu murat.yildizo...@u-bordeaux4.fr
Date:  Friday, 28 March 2014 13:39
To:  Mark Salmon markhsal...@gmail.com
Cc:  Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org, Murat Yildizoglu
murat.yildizo...@u-bordeaux4.fr, LyX Users List lyx-users@lists.lyx.org
Subject:  Re: Adding new class into LyX

Mark,

I understand your frustrations, but these installation discrepancies are
small problems, and they are perfectly known normally by the users (you can
search the mail list, and you will find these problems there and solutions
to them). So you have not been cheated by a commercial vendor hiding from
you the deficiencies of the product he sells (see below on your
responsibilities as a user, from my point of view as a user)...

There was also a lot of discussion about the big rewriting of the BEAMER
module in the previous beta version. This is a big change, but it goes in
the correct direction, even if each of us had to take sometime to get used
to the new standard. You should read the documentation on the new beamer
module. My beamer slides from much older versions of LyX have nearly all
been imported without any big problems (including elements in the preamble,
but see the end of this paragraph). You sometime need to add a separation at
the end of a slide, and eliminate instructions - old tricks - that are not
necessary in the newer versions of beamer.

In any case, this is a software developed by a community of dedicated
developers with limited resources, as J ürgen reminds it in his message. And
I am grateful to them that they indeed put this software out to the
public, to which I belong (I am mainly a user).

Communities developing open source softs cannot just reply take it or leave
it to users who formulate criticisms, but these users have also the
responsibility of taking time to collect some information about the soft
before adopting it  (because adopting a new software is a time consuming
process, whatever is the software - commercial like SWP or not), and of
making suggestions of amelioration for the soft, when they have new needs,
instead of flaming the community with their definitive improductive
judgements. 

I hope that you will quickly solve your problems.

Murat


2014-03-28 13:58 GMT+01:00 Mark Salmon markhsal...@gmail.com:
 Aplogies for lack of immediate  response - I had to teach. I have had
 frustrations with Lyx  ever since I moved from SciWord several years ago.
 Yesterday I upgraded to the latest beta and now when I try and load up a New
 file I get the error message that there is no begin document command when
 there clearly is in the source file- I wasted half a day trying to work out
 what was wrong- in fact I still don¹t know what was wrong but by removing use
 theme warsaw from the Latex preamble it works for some reason- secondly the
 installation on MacOSx does not drop the relevant files -templates  etc. in
 the right places where the system can find them ‹- so when I ask for a New
 from template I am told the file will not compile as it requires external
 files which are not available.etc. Etc. etc. can you understand how
 frustrating this is when you are under pressure???  I am not a TeX speaker but
 someone who needs to use the wonderful system that  you have helped to create
 in a professional context. HoweverŠ. It is just a real pain that it does not
 work properly on a Mac largely because of install problems I believe. I fully
 understand your effort and all those who along with you have helped create Lyx
 in the form it is today ­ thank you- but that is not the point ­ nobody should
 put any software out to the public which does not work as it should­ my time
 as yours is valuable. It is simply not professional.
 Mark
 
 From:  Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org
 Date:  Friday, 28 March 2014 10:44
 To:  Murat Yildizoglu murat.yildizo...@u-bordeaux4.fr
 Cc:  Mark Salmon markhsal...@gmail.com, Steven Fredman
 stevenfred...@gmail.com, LyX Users List lyx-users@lists.lyx.org
 Subject:  Re: Adding new class into LyX
 
 2014-03-28 11:33 GMT+01:00 Murat Yildizoglu:
 Don't get vexed so quickly Jürgen :-)  The users should be able to tell the
 problems they meet.
 
 Sure, but in a constructive way. We cannot fix a total waste of time and
 terrible support.
  
 It is true that writing a module for supporting a new class file

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Anders Ekberg]

From:  Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org
Date:  fredag 28 mars 2014 16:16
To:  Anders Ekberg a...@mac.com
Cc:  LyX Users List lyx-users@lists.lyx.org
Subject:  Re: Adding new class into LyX

 2014-03-28 16:11 GMT+01:00 Anders Ekberg:
 Quoting myself ²Š  I suspect it could be a bit difficult to solve² shows
 either my complete ignorance of programming (which I hope is not correct) or
 your high abilities (which I hope is correct). I am impressed!
 
 I wish you were right with your second statement, but this was really trivial
 (and not even a programming task).
 
 Jürgen

Ouch, that means I have to shape up significantly on my programming
knowledge ;-)

Have a nice weekend!
/Anders

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Anders Ekberg]

 2014-03-28 13:58 GMT+01:00 Mark Salmon markhsal...@gmail.com:
 Aplogies for lack of immediate  response - I had to teach. I have had
 frustrations with Lyx  ever since I moved from SciWord several years ago.
 Yesterday I upgraded to the latest beta and now when I try and load up a New
 file I get the error message that there is no begin document command when
 there clearly is in the source file- I wasted half a day trying to work out
 what was wrong- in fact I still don¹t know what was wrong but by removing use
 theme warsaw from the Latex preamble it works for some reason- secondly the
 installation on MacOSx does not drop the relevant files -templates  etc. in
 the right places where the system can find them ‹- so when I ask for a New
 from template I am told the file will not compile as it requires external
 files which are not available.etc. Etc. etc. can you understand how
 frustrating this is when you are under pressure???  I am not a TeX speaker
 but someone who needs to use the wonderful system that  you have helped to
 create in a professional context. HoweverŠ. It is just a real pain that it
 does not work properly on a Mac largely because of install problems I
 believe. I fully understand your effort and all those who along with you have
 helped create Lyx in the form it is today ­ thank you- but that is not the
 point ­ nobody should put any software out to the public which does not work
 as it should­ my time as yours is valuable. It is simply not professional.
 
 1. If you install beta software, be aware that it is beta software. The
 announcement of LyX 2.1beta and LyX 2.1rc clearly state that this release is
 for testing purposes only, users are encouraged to use current 2.0 stable
 release for any serious work.
 
 2. LyX is a community project, not a commercial product. The developers are
 all volunteers and have jobs (I am, as you, a researcher and teacher at the
 university). So if you do not have time to give at least constructive feedback
 (one way of participating), then use commercial software and pay for the
 support.
 
 Regards
 Jürgen

I completely agree with Jurgen when I ask for a New from template I am told
the file will not compile as it requires external files which are not
available.etc² is not really helpful for solving your problem. (A good idea
if you want someone to really help you is to make it as easy as possible for
them ­ if you just want to complain that is another thing ;-)

Anyway, if I try to reproduce on a freshly installed 2.1rc1 on a Mac by
taking the elsarticle template, i get an error that
../examples/biblioExample.bib is not found. (I assume the reason is that the
template resides in ~/Library/Application Support/Lyx-2.1/templates/ but
gets moved to ~/Documents/ when you create a new file.

If your problem is something like that (which, as said, I don¹t know) then
click on the gray box with BibTeX-generated bibliography, remove the current
database and add the biblioExample by browsing and selecting
~/Library/Application Support/Lyx-2.1/examples/biblioExample.bib
And now it works.
I agree that this is not really good, but I suspect it could be a bit
difficult to solve. Also you usually provide your own bibliography when
using the template.

As I said, I have no idea if your problem is similar (judging from the first
comment, I would suspect that you would also require a Reconfigure of LyX
and possible to do a sudo texhash from the Terminal to get things to work).
But as Jürgen pointed out: If you can¹t take time to explain what your
problem is, then buy commercial program/support (especially if they get paid
by the hour in supporting ;-)

Have a nice weekend!
Anders

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Rainer M Krug]

Steve Litt sl...@troubleshooters.com writes:

 On Fri, 28 Mar 2014 11:33:57 +0100
 Murat Yildizoglu murat.yildizo...@u-bordeaux4.fr wrote:

 Don't get vexed so quickly Jürgen :-)  The users should be able to
 tell the problems they meet.
 
 Of course, I find quite excessive to speak of LyX's lack of support
 for Mac or total waste of time.

 You think? :-)

 Funny, I didn't see an offer from Mark to help make LyX more Mac
 friendly, whatever that might mean. I mean, probably most of us don't
 even have Macs to test LyX on. I know I don't.

 I didn't see Mark fork the project or make an alternative.

 He can't help us, he can't forge a new path, so he impotently rants.

 I think the LyX project ought to have a page for Apple users explaining
 what free software is and isn't, who creates it and why they create it,
 and a brief explanation of the fact that Mac users can always buy their
 solutions if free software doesn't float their boat.

I am a Mac user - I love LyX - I report bugs (and sometimes bug others on
the list with questions) - so please don't say Apple users. I am sure
there are even more windows users who have unrealistic expectations -
and probably even some Linux users.

So - yes - a page explaining the principle of free software, how it
works, who works on it (a list of the core devs of Lyx would make clear
how few there are...) and how all users can (and should) contribute
would make a lot of sense. And not only for Apple users.

Overall: good suggestion!


 SteveT

 Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
 Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance


-- 
Rainer M. Krug
email: Raineratkrugsdotde
PGP: 0x0F52F982


pgpMRAatAsWKh.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

2014-03-28 10:25 GMT+01:00 Steven Fredman:

 Hi

 I'm trying to import a new class into LyX. The class and all of it's
 associated files can be found at
 http://labproj.eie.wits.ac.za/labproj/papers/witseie-paper-2005.zip

 I've spent quite a bit of time on Google looking for a method to do this,
 but all of the tutorials are vague and seem to contradict each other - I've
 followed the instructions on a number of them and they don't seem to work.

 Can you please give me a clear set of instructions of how to go about
 adding this type of document.

 I'm running LyX Version 2.0.7 with MiKTeX 2.9.4248 on Windows 8 64-bit.

 Alternatively, is there a better or easier way for me to use the template
 provided?

 Any assistance will be greatly appreciated.


This looks like an article class, so the first step to get it up and
running would be a simple wrapper layout to the standard article class, as
attached. Put this in your Personal LyX directory (as displayed in Help 
About LyX) in a folder called layouts. Then issue Edit  Reconfigure.

This will give you basic support. If you need any further layouts and
features that are not included in the article layout, add it to this layout
file. Look in other article/paper layout files for models or ask here.

HTH
Jürgen





 Thanks
 Kind Regards
 Steven Fredman



whitseiepaper.layout
Description: Binary data

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Mark Salmon]

I totally agree!!!I have wasted so much time trying and given up. Also where
is the best repository for alternative classes- I am using a Mac OSX - like
many Mac users have nearly given up with LyX¹s lack of support for Mac- LyX
is a pleasure when it works but when it doesn¹t it is a total waste of time
and time is something we just don¹t have. The documentation just isn¹t clear
and Mac support is terrible.

From:  Steven Fredman stevenfred...@gmail.com
Date:  Friday, 28 March 2014 09:25
To:  lyx-users@lists.lyx.org
Subject:  Adding new class into LyX

Hi

I'm trying to import a new class into LyX. The class and all of it's
associated files can be found at
http://labproj.eie.wits.ac.za/labproj/papers/witseie-paper-2005.zip

I've spent quite a bit of time on Google looking for a method to do this,
but all of the tutorials are vague and seem to contradict each other - I've
followed the instructions on a number of them and they don't seem to work.

Can you please give me a clear set of instructions of how to go about adding
this type of document.

I'm running LyX Version 2.0.7 with MiKTeX 2.9.4248 on Windows 8 64-bit.

Alternatively, is there a better or easier way for me to use the template
provided?

Any assistance will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Kind Regards
Steven Fredman

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Stephan Witt]

Am 28.03.2014 um 10:46 schrieb Mark Salmon markhsal...@gmail.com:

 I totally agree!!!I have wasted so much time trying and given up. Also where 
 is the best repository for alternative classes- I am using a Mac OSX - like 
 many Mac users have nearly given up with LyX’s lack of support for Mac- LyX 
 is a pleasure when it works but when it doesn’t it is a total waste of time 
 and time is something we just don’t have. The documentation just isn’t clear 
 and Mac support is terrible.

Would you mind to be more specific? What is terrible?

Stephan

 
 From: Steven Fredman stevenfred...@gmail.com
 Date: Friday, 28 March 2014 09:25
 To: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org
 Subject: Adding new class into LyX
 
 Hi
 
 I'm trying to import a new class into LyX. The class and all of it's 
 associated files can be found at 
 http://labproj.eie.wits.ac.za/labproj/papers/witseie-paper-2005.zip
 
 I've spent quite a bit of time on Google looking for a method to do this, but 
 all of the tutorials are vague and seem to contradict each other - I've 
 followed the instructions on a number of them and they don't seem to work.
 
 Can you please give me a clear set of instructions of how to go about adding 
 this type of document.
 
 I'm running LyX Version 2.0.7 with MiKTeX 2.9.4248 on Windows 8 64-bit.
 
 Alternatively, is there a better or easier way for me to use the template 
 provided?
 
 Any assistance will be greatly appreciated.
 
 Thanks
 Kind Regards
 Steven Fredman

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

2014-03-28 10:46 GMT+01:00 Mark Salmon:

 I totally agree!!!I have wasted so much time trying and given up. Also
 where is the best repository for alternative classes- I am using a Mac OSX
 - like many Mac users have nearly given up with LyX's lack of support for
 Mac- LyX is a pleasure when it works but when it doesn't it is a total
 waste of time and time is something we just don't have.


Aha. And you think the LyX developers, a small group of volunteers, are
blessed with an infinite treasure of free time?

Jürgen

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Murat Yildizoglu]

Don't get vexed so quickly Jürgen :-)  The users should be able to tell the
problems they meet.

Of course, I find quite excessive to speak of LyX's lack of support for
Mac or total waste of time.

I use LyX under OSX with a lot of pleasure and the fact that you spend time
to make this possible is a bounty for us.

Moreover, this specific problem has no special root in the OSX version, I
think, since the latex classes and the LyX modules are compatible between
all versions.

It is true that writing a module for supporting a new class file is not
very easy, but I do not know how it could be. We must find a way to tell to
the WSYWYM software a way to represent on the screen the new logical
components that are specific to this new class. Scientific Word (a
commercial software costing a LOT money- especially in France) has always
been confronted to the same problem, even if they provided a graphical
style composer (it was not very easy to use either, but I have not tested
it recently, since I have switched to Lyx).

The only point that has maybe been somewhat deficient in the OSX support is
the lack of support of Retina screens (so I am sticking to MacBooks with
1400x900 screens :-)  ), but this is a limitation due to QT if I have
understood well the problem.
Given Nokia's problems, I do not know if the future of QT is very bright
any way... Moreover, there were rumors on the mailing list indicating that
the next version of QT would be Retina-compatible, but I have not followed
this issue further.




2014-03-28 11:09 GMT+01:00 Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org:

 2014-03-28 10:46 GMT+01:00 Mark Salmon:

  I totally agree!!!I have wasted so much time trying and given up. Also
 where is the best repository for alternative classes- I am using a Mac OSX
 - like many Mac users have nearly given up with LyX's lack of support for
 Mac- LyX is a pleasure when it works but when it doesn't it is a total
 waste of time and time is something we just don't have.


 Aha. And you think the LyX developers, a small group of volunteers, are
 blessed with an infinite treasure of free time?

 Jürgen




-- 


*Prof. Murat Yildizoglu*

Note: Please use the following address as such

UNIVERSITE DE BORDEAUX
GREThA (UMR CNRS 5113)
MURAT YILDIZOGLU
16 AVENUE LEON DUGUIT
CS 50057
33608 PESSAC CEDEX
FRANCE

Bureau : E-331

mail: yildi-at-u-bordeaux4.fr

web: yildizoglu.info

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

2014-03-28 11:33 GMT+01:00 Murat Yildizoglu:

 Don't get vexed so quickly Jürgen :-)  The users should be able to tell
 the problems they meet.


Sure, but in a constructive way. We cannot fix a total waste of time and
terrible support.


 It is true that writing a module for supporting a new class file is not
 very easy, but I do not know how it could be. We must find a way to tell to
 the WSYWYM software a way to represent on the screen the new logical
 components that are specific to this new class. Scientific Word (a
 commercial software costing a LOT money- especially in France) has always
 been confronted to the same problem, even if they provided a graphical
 style composer (it was not very easy to use either, but I have not tested
 it recently, since I have switched to Lyx).


Sure. We all want some graphical tool to setup layout files. There even
were attempts to do so. But then, we are about 7 persons in the core team,
all of has have a job and a career, so it is a it is in OSS: Things get
implemented if someone finds the time and interest.

OTOH, I think LyX has a great community. Usually, if someone requests for
help with setting up a layout, he gets help within the same day. I have
responded the OP within minutes, even though I actually have a paper to
write myself at this very moment (where the deadline has passed already).

So with all respect to wishes and dreams, my understanding for such
unconstructive rants is rather limited.

Jürgen

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Mark Salmon]

Aplogies for lack of immediate  response - I had to teach. I have had
frustrations with Lyx  ever since I moved from SciWord several years ago.
Yesterday I upgraded to the latest beta and now when I try and load up a New
file I get the error message that there is no begin document command when
there clearly is in the source file- I wasted half a day trying to work out
what was wrong- in fact I still don¹t know what was wrong but by removing
use theme warsaw from the Latex preamble it works for some reason- secondly
the installation on MacOSx does not drop the relevant files -templates  etc.
in the right places where the system can find them ‹- so when I ask for a
New from template I am told the file will not compile as it requires
external files which are not available.etc. Etc. etc. can you understand how
frustrating this is when you are under pressure???  I am not a TeX speaker
but someone who needs to use the wonderful system that  you have helped to
create in a professional context. HoweverŠ. It is just a real pain that it
does not work properly on a Mac largely because of install problems I
believe. I fully understand your effort and all those who along with you
have helped create Lyx in the form it is today ­ thank you- but that is not
the point ­ nobody should put any software out to the public which does not
work as it should­ my time as yours is valuable. It is simply not
professional.
Mark

From:  Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org
Date:  Friday, 28 March 2014 10:44
To:  Murat Yildizoglu murat.yildizo...@u-bordeaux4.fr
Cc:  Mark Salmon markhsal...@gmail.com, Steven Fredman
stevenfred...@gmail.com, LyX Users List lyx-users@lists.lyx.org
Subject:  Re: Adding new class into LyX

2014-03-28 11:33 GMT+01:00 Murat Yildizoglu:
 Don't get vexed so quickly Jürgen :-)  The users should be able to tell the
 problems they meet.

Sure, but in a constructive way. We cannot fix a total waste of time and
terrible support.
 
 It is true that writing a module for supporting a new class file is not very
 easy, but I do not know how it could be. We must find a way to tell to the
 WSYWYM software a way to represent on the screen the new logical components
 that are specific to this new class. Scientific Word (a commercial software
 costing a LOT money- especially in France) has always been confronted to the
 same problem, even if they provided a graphical style composer (it was not
 very easy to use either, but I have not tested it recently, since I have
 switched to Lyx).

Sure. We all want some graphical tool to setup layout files. There even were
attempts to do so. But then, we are about 7 persons in the core team, all of
has have a job and a career, so it is a it is in OSS: Things get implemented
if someone finds the time and interest.

OTOH, I think LyX has a great community. Usually, if someone requests for
help with setting up a layout, he gets help within the same day. I have
responded the OP within minutes, even though I actually have a paper to
write myself at this very moment (where the deadline has passed already).

So with all respect to wishes and dreams, my understanding for such
unconstructive rants is rather limited.

Jürgen

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

2014-03-28 13:58 GMT+01:00 Mark Salmon markhsal...@gmail.com:

 Aplogies for lack of immediate  response - I had to teach. I have had
 frustrations with Lyx  ever since I moved from SciWord several years ago.
 Yesterday I upgraded to the latest beta and now when I try and load up a
 New file I get the error message that there is no begin document command
 when there clearly is in the source file- I wasted half a day trying to
 work out what was wrong- in fact I still don't know what was wrong but by
 removing use theme warsaw from the Latex preamble it works for some reason-
 secondly the installation on MacOSx does not drop the relevant files
 -templates  etc. in the right places where the system can find them --- so
 when I ask for a New from template I am told the file will not compile as
 it requires external files which are not available.etc. Etc. etc. can you
 understand how frustrating this is when you are under pressure???  I am not
 a TeX speaker but someone who needs to use the wonderful system that  you
 have helped to create in a professional context. However It is just a
 real pain that it does not work properly on a Mac largely because of
 install problems I believe. I fully understand your effort and all those
 who along with you have helped create Lyx in the form it is today - thank
 you- but that is not the point - nobody should put any software out to the
 public which does not work as it should- my time as yours is valuable. It
 is simply not professional.


1. If you install beta software, be aware that it is beta software. The
announcement of LyX 2.1beta and LyX 2.1rc clearly state that this release
is for testing purposes only, users are encouraged to use current 2.0
stable release for any serious work.

2. LyX is a community project, not a commercial product. The developers are
all volunteers and have jobs (I am, as you, a researcher and teacher at the
university). So if you do not have time to give at least constructive
feedback (one way of participating), then use commercial software and pay
for the support.

Regards
Jürgen



 Mark

 From: Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org
 Date: Friday, 28 March 2014 10:44
 To: Murat Yildizoglu murat.yildizo...@u-bordeaux4.fr
 Cc: Mark Salmon markhsal...@gmail.com, Steven Fredman 
 stevenfred...@gmail.com, LyX Users List lyx-users@lists.lyx.org
 Subject: Re: Adding new class into LyX

 2014-03-28 11:33 GMT+01:00 Murat Yildizoglu:

 Don't get vexed so quickly Jürgen :-)  The users should be able to tell
 the problems they meet.


 Sure, but in a constructive way. We cannot fix a total waste of time and
 terrible support.


 It is true that writing a module for supporting a new class file is not
 very easy, but I do not know how it could be. We must find a way to tell to
 the WSYWYM software a way to represent on the screen the new logical
 components that are specific to this new class. Scientific Word (a
 commercial software costing a LOT money- especially in France) has always
 been confronted to the same problem, even if they provided a graphical
 style composer (it was not very easy to use either, but I have not tested
 it recently, since I have switched to Lyx).


 Sure. We all want some graphical tool to setup layout files. There even
 were attempts to do so. But then, we are about 7 persons in the core team,
 all of has have a job and a career, so it is a it is in OSS: Things get
 implemented if someone finds the time and interest.

 OTOH, I think LyX has a great community. Usually, if someone requests for
 help with setting up a layout, he gets help within the same day. I have
 responded the OP within minutes, even though I actually have a paper to
 write myself at this very moment (where the deadline has passed already).

 So with all respect to wishes and dreams, my understanding for such
 unconstructive rants is rather limited.

 Jürgen

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Murat Yildizoglu]

Mark,

I understand your frustrations, but these installation discrepancies are
small problems, and they are perfectly known normally by the users (you can
search the mail list, and you will find these problems there and solutions
to them). So you have not been cheated by a commercial vendor hiding from
you the deficiencies of the product he sells (see below on your
responsibilities as a user, from my point of view as a user)...

There was also a lot of discussion about the big rewriting of the BEAMER
module in the previous beta version. This is a big change, but it goes in
the correct direction, even if each of us had to take sometime to get used
to the new standard. You should read the documentation on the new beamer
module. My beamer slides from much older versions of LyX have nearly all
been imported without any big problems (including elements in the preamble,
but see the end of this paragraph). You sometime need to add a separation
at the end of a slide, and eliminate instructions - old tricks - that are
not necessary in the newer versions of beamer.

In any case, this is a software developed by a community of dedicated
developers with limited resources, as J ürgen reminds it in his message.
And I am grateful to them that they indeed put this software out to the
public, to which I belong (I am mainly a user).

Communities developing open source softs cannot just reply take it or
leave it to users who formulate criticisms, but these users have also the
responsibility of taking time to collect some information about the soft
before adopting it  (because adopting a new software is a time consuming
process, whatever is the software - commercial like SWP or not), and of
making suggestions of amelioration for the soft, when they have new needs,
instead of flaming the community with their definitive improductive
judgements.

I hope that you will quickly solve your problems.

Murat


2014-03-28 13:58 GMT+01:00 Mark Salmon markhsal...@gmail.com:

 Aplogies for lack of immediate  response - I had to teach. I have had
 frustrations with Lyx  ever since I moved from SciWord several years ago.
 Yesterday I upgraded to the latest beta and now when I try and load up a
 New file I get the error message that there is no begin document command
 when there clearly is in the source file- I wasted half a day trying to
 work out what was wrong- in fact I still don't know what was wrong but by
 removing use theme warsaw from the Latex preamble it works for some reason-
 secondly the installation on MacOSx does not drop the relevant files
 -templates  etc. in the right places where the system can find them --- so
 when I ask for a New from template I am told the file will not compile as
 it requires external files which are not available.etc. Etc. etc. can you
 understand how frustrating this is when you are under pressure???  I am not
 a TeX speaker but someone who needs to use the wonderful system that  you
 have helped to create in a professional context. However It is just a
 real pain that it does not work properly on a Mac largely because of
 install problems I believe. I fully understand your effort and all those
 who along with you have helped create Lyx in the form it is today - thank
 you- but that is not the point - nobody should put any software out to the
 public which does not work as it should- my time as yours is valuable. It
 is simply not professional.
 Mark

 From: Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org
 Date: Friday, 28 March 2014 10:44
 To: Murat Yildizoglu murat.yildizo...@u-bordeaux4.fr
 Cc: Mark Salmon markhsal...@gmail.com, Steven Fredman 
 stevenfred...@gmail.com, LyX Users List lyx-users@lists.lyx.org
 Subject: Re: Adding new class into LyX

 2014-03-28 11:33 GMT+01:00 Murat Yildizoglu:

 Don't get vexed so quickly Jürgen :-)  The users should be able to tell
 the problems they meet.


 Sure, but in a constructive way. We cannot fix a total waste of time and
 terrible support.


 It is true that writing a module for supporting a new class file is not
 very easy, but I do not know how it could be. We must find a way to tell to
 the WSYWYM software a way to represent on the screen the new logical
 components that are specific to this new class. Scientific Word (a
 commercial software costing a LOT money- especially in France) has always
 been confronted to the same problem, even if they provided a graphical
 style composer (it was not very easy to use either, but I have not tested
 it recently, since I have switched to Lyx).


 Sure. We all want some graphical tool to setup layout files. There even
 were attempts to do so. But then, we are about 7 persons in the core team,
 all of has have a job and a career, so it is a it is in OSS: Things get
 implemented if someone finds the time and interest.

 OTOH, I think LyX has a great community. Usually, if someone requests for
 help with setting up a layout, he gets help within the same day. I have
 responded the OP within minutes, even though I actually

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

2014-03-28 14:42 GMT+01:00 Anders Ekberg a...@mac.com:

 Anyway, if I try to reproduce on a freshly installed 2.1rc1 on a Mac by
 taking the elsarticle template, i get an error that
 ../examples/biblioExample.bib is not found. (I assume the reason is that
 the template resides in ~/Library/Application Support/Lyx-2.1/templates/
 but gets moved to ~/Documents/ when you create a new file.


Thanks for the report. This looks like another instance of
http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/8643

I've added a note to that ticket.

Jürgen

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Murat Yildizoglu]

Mark,
J urgen has already replied your question: the community of developers and
their resources are limited, and they do what they can to provide us with
the best LyX they can.
It is really not a big problem for a user (that is, to someone possessing
all necessary user rights on his/her Mac's OSX) to go inside the LyX bundle
and copy the templates folder to some other folder and give it to LyX as a
parameter in the preferences. If the installation process does not do this,
I conclude that this is not easy for the developers and that there are
other priorities for the usability of the software. The user can search the
answers by the community to get this simple solution and implement it.

If community managed software with its specific constraints (which does not
exclude the possibility of suggesting developments, supporting them
sometime, and contributing yourself if you can) is not convenient for you,
you should use other types of software  (but be prepared to be disappointed
because commercial software companies are not reputed to react more quickly
then LyX developers to my experience (including Microsoft and MacKichan -
even the community is very nice in this last case, but again with the
constraints of a community ;-)  ).

I will stop here, because I have shared everything I can share with you on
this point.

Best regards,

Murat



2014-03-28 14:53 GMT+01:00 Mark Salmon markhsal...@gmail.com:

 Murat
 Thank you for your reply. If these problems which have frustrated me and
 wasted my time-- are well known by other users and there are solutions to
 them  as you say --- then WHY have the solutions not been embedded in the
 latest beta?
 I understand software development issues and the need to update as changes
 are made but my comment above remains- as a simple user I need to be able
 to use the software- if there are well know problems in the software on
 particular platforms then surely the developers have a responsibility to
 remove them when the  software is upgraded? This applies equally to open
 source community based as to commercial software.
 Mark

 From: Murat Yildizoglu murat.yildizo...@u-bordeaux4.fr
 Date: Friday, 28 March 2014 13:39
 To: Mark Salmon markhsal...@gmail.com
 Cc: Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org, Murat Yildizoglu 
 murat.yildizo...@u-bordeaux4.fr, LyX Users List lyx-users@lists.lyx.org

 Subject: Re: Adding new class into LyX

 Mark,

 I understand your frustrations, but these installation discrepancies are
 small problems, and they are perfectly known normally by the users (you can
 search the mail list, and you will find these problems there and solutions
 to them). So you have not been cheated by a commercial vendor hiding from
 you the deficiencies of the product he sells (see below on your
 responsibilities as a user, from my point of view as a user)...

 There was also a lot of discussion about the big rewriting of the BEAMER
 module in the previous beta version. This is a big change, but it goes in
 the correct direction, even if each of us had to take sometime to get used
 to the new standard. You should read the documentation on the new beamer
 module. My beamer slides from much older versions of LyX have nearly all
 been imported without any big problems (including elements in the preamble,
 but see the end of this paragraph). You sometime need to add a separation
 at the end of a slide, and eliminate instructions - old tricks - that are
 not necessary in the newer versions of beamer.

 In any case, this is a software developed by a community of dedicated
 developers with limited resources, as J ürgen reminds it in his message.
 And I am grateful to them that they indeed put this software out to the
 public, to which I belong (I am mainly a user).

 Communities developing open source softs cannot just reply take it or
 leave it to users who formulate criticisms, but these users have also the
 responsibility of taking time to collect some information about the soft
 before adopting it  (because adopting a new software is a time consuming
 process, whatever is the software - commercial like SWP or not), and of
 making suggestions of amelioration for the soft, when they have new needs,
 instead of flaming the community with their definitive improductive
 judgements.

 I hope that you will quickly solve your problems.

 Murat


 2014-03-28 13:58 GMT+01:00 Mark Salmon markhsal...@gmail.com:

 Aplogies for lack of immediate  response - I had to teach. I have had
 frustrations with Lyx  ever since I moved from SciWord several years ago.
 Yesterday I upgraded to the latest beta and now when I try and load up a
 New file I get the error message that there is no begin document command
 when there clearly is in the source file- I wasted half a day trying to
 work out what was wrong- in fact I still don't know what was wrong but by
 removing use theme warsaw from the Latex preamble it works for some reason-
 secondly the installation on MacOSx does not drop the relevant files

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

2014-03-28 14:58 GMT+01:00 Jürgen Spitzmüller:

 Thanks for the report. This looks like another instance of
 http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/8643

 I've added a note to that ticket.


And fixed the problem for the next release.

Jürgen




 Jürgen

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

2014-03-28 16:11 GMT+01:00 Anders Ekberg:

 Quoting myself ...  I suspect it could be a bit difficult to solve shows
  either my complete ignorance of programming (which I hope is not correct)
 or your high abilities (which I hope is correct). I am impressed!


I wish you were right with your second statement, but this was really
trivial (and not even a programming task).

Jürgen



 All the best!
 Anders

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Steve Litt]

On Fri, 28 Mar 2014 15:06:11 +0100
Rainer M Krug rai...@krugs.de wrote:


 Hi Mark
 
 This is getting ridiculous. As far as I know, everybody can choose
 their software. If you are not happy with LyX / beamer, use
 Powerpoint.

Exactly. I've never been happy with LyX/beamer, so I either make my
presentations in LibreOffice, or in Beamer using Vim. Everyone uses LyX
for circumstances where they find it the best tool, and use other
software for other purposes.

And I want to thank the developers for the software with which I put
out about 8 books over 13 years. The LyX developers materially improved
my business.

SteveT

Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Steve Litt]

On Fri, 28 Mar 2014 11:33:57 +0100
Murat Yildizoglu murat.yildizo...@u-bordeaux4.fr wrote:

 Don't get vexed so quickly Jürgen :-)  The users should be able to
 tell the problems they meet.
 
 Of course, I find quite excessive to speak of LyX's lack of support
 for Mac or total waste of time.

You think? :-)

Funny, I didn't see an offer from Mark to help make LyX more Mac
friendly, whatever that might mean. I mean, probably most of us don't
even have Macs to test LyX on. I know I don't.

I didn't see Mark fork the project or make an alternative.

He can't help us, he can't forge a new path, so he impotently rants.

I think the LyX project ought to have a page for Apple users explaining
what free software is and isn't, who creates it and why they create it,
and a brief explanation of the fact that Mac users can always buy their
solutions if free software doesn't float their boat.

SteveT

Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Steve Litt]

Hey Mark,

And you're still on this list why?

Don't let the door hit you in the rear end on your way out.

SteveT

On Fri, 28 Mar 2014 09:46:03 +
Mark Salmon markhsal...@gmail.com wrote:

 I totally agree!!!I have wasted so much time trying and given up.
 Also where is the best repository for alternative classes- I am using
 a Mac OSX - like many Mac users have nearly given up with LyX¹s lack
 of support for Mac- LyX is a pleasure when it works but when it
 doesn¹t it is a total waste of time and time is something we just
 don¹t have. The documentation just isn¹t clear and Mac support is
 terrible.
 
 From:  Steven Fredman stevenfred...@gmail.com
 Date:  Friday, 28 March 2014 09:25
 To:  lyx-users@lists.lyx.org
 Subject:  Adding new class into LyX
 
 Hi
 
 I'm trying to import a new class into LyX. The class and all of it's
 associated files can be found at
 http://labproj.eie.wits.ac.za/labproj/papers/witseie-paper-2005.zip
 
 I've spent quite a bit of time on Google looking for a method to do
 this, but all of the tutorials are vague and seem to contradict each
 other - I've followed the instructions on a number of them and they
 don't seem to work.
 
 Can you please give me a clear set of instructions of how to go about
 adding this type of document.
 
 I'm running LyX Version 2.0.7 with MiKTeX 2.9.4248 on Windows 8
 64-bit.
 
 Alternatively, is there a better or easier way for me to use the
 template provided?
 
 Any assistance will be greatly appreciated.
 
 Thanks
 Kind Regards
 Steven Fredman

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Richard Heck]

On 03/28/2014 06:44 AM, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote:

2014-03-28 11:33 GMT+01:00 Murat Yildizoglu:

Don't get vexed so quickly Jürgen :-)  The users should be able to
tell the problems they meet.


Sure, but in a constructive way. We cannot fix a total waste of time 
and terrible support.


It is true that writing a module for supporting a new class file
is not very easy, but I do not know how it could be. We must find
a way to tell to the WSYWYM software a way to represent on the
screen the new logical components that are specific to this new
class. Scientific Word (a commercial software costing a LOT money-
especially in France) has always been confronted to the same
problem, even if they provided a graphical style composer (it was
not very easy to use either, but I have not tested it recently,
since I have switched to Lyx).


Sure. We all want some graphical tool to setup layout files. There 
even were attempts to do so.


Even that does not help that much. You would still have to go through 
the class file, or an example, or whatever, and create the layout. 
That's where the real work is, IMHO, and there is no way around it. No 
one is going to write some program to parse cls files and create layout 
files from them. I'm not ever sure it's possible, in any realistic sense.


People who want LyX to support new class files have to be willing to do 
the work. That's not to say the original poster isn't. But it's silly 
for anyone to expect *us* to do it.


Richard

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Anders Ekberg]

From:  Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org2014-03-28 14:58 GMT+01:00 Jürgen
Spitzmüller:
 Thanks for the report. This looks like another instance of
 http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/8643
 
 I've added a note to that ticket.
 
 And fixed the problem for the next release.
 
 Jürgen

Quoting myself ²Š  I suspect it could be a bit difficult to solve² shows
either my complete ignorance of programming (which I hope is not correct) or
your high abilities (which I hope is correct). I am impressed!

All the best!
Anders

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Rainer M Krug]

Mark Salmon markhsal...@gmail.com writes:

 Murat 
 Thank you for your reply. If these problems which have frustrated me and
 wasted my time‹ are well known by other users and there are solutions to
 them  as you say ‹- then WHY have the solutions not been embedded in the
 latest beta?
 I understand software development issues and the need to update as changes
 are made but my comment above remains- as a simple user I need to be able to
 use the software- if there are well know problems in the software on
 particular platforms then surely the developers have a responsibility to
 remove them when the  software is upgraded? 

Hi Mark

This is getting ridiculous. As far as I know, everybody can choose their
software. If you are not happy with LyX / beamer, use Powerpoint.

The developers of LyX are doing an AWESOME job - and if you think not,
then do it yourself or use another softeware.

Cheers,

Rainer


 This applies equally to open
 source community based as to commercial software.
 Mark

 From:  Murat Yildizoglu murat.yildizo...@u-bordeaux4.fr
 Date:  Friday, 28 March 2014 13:39
 To:  Mark Salmon markhsal...@gmail.com
 Cc:  Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org, Murat Yildizoglu
 murat.yildizo...@u-bordeaux4.fr, LyX Users List lyx-users@lists.lyx.org
 Subject:  Re: Adding new class into LyX

 Mark,

 I understand your frustrations, but these installation discrepancies are
 small problems, and they are perfectly known normally by the users (you can
 search the mail list, and you will find these problems there and solutions
 to them). So you have not been cheated by a commercial vendor hiding from
 you the deficiencies of the product he sells (see below on your
 responsibilities as a user, from my point of view as a user)...

 There was also a lot of discussion about the big rewriting of the BEAMER
 module in the previous beta version. This is a big change, but it goes in
 the correct direction, even if each of us had to take sometime to get used
 to the new standard. You should read the documentation on the new beamer
 module. My beamer slides from much older versions of LyX have nearly all
 been imported without any big problems (including elements in the preamble,
 but see the end of this paragraph). You sometime need to add a separation at
 the end of a slide, and eliminate instructions - old tricks - that are not
 necessary in the newer versions of beamer.

 In any case, this is a software developed by a community of dedicated
 developers with limited resources, as J ürgen reminds it in his message. And
 I am grateful to them that they indeed put this software out to the
 public, to which I belong (I am mainly a user).

 Communities developing open source softs cannot just reply take it or leave
 it to users who formulate criticisms, but these users have also the
 responsibility of taking time to collect some information about the soft
 before adopting it  (because adopting a new software is a time consuming
 process, whatever is the software - commercial like SWP or not), and of
 making suggestions of amelioration for the soft, when they have new needs,
 instead of flaming the community with their definitive improductive
 judgements. 

 I hope that you will quickly solve your problems.

 Murat


 2014-03-28 13:58 GMT+01:00 Mark Salmon markhsal...@gmail.com:
 Aplogies for lack of immediate  response - I had to teach. I have had
 frustrations with Lyx  ever since I moved from SciWord several years ago.
 Yesterday I upgraded to the latest beta and now when I try and load up a New
 file I get the error message that there is no begin document command when
 there clearly is in the source file- I wasted half a day trying to work out
 what was wrong- in fact I still don¹t know what was wrong but by removing use
 theme warsaw from the Latex preamble it works for some reason- secondly the
 installation on MacOSx does not drop the relevant files -templates  etc. in
 the right places where the system can find them ‹- so when I ask for a New
 from template I am told the file will not compile as it requires external
 files which are not available.etc. Etc. etc. can you understand how
 frustrating this is when you are under pressure???  I am not a TeX speaker 
 but
 someone who needs to use the wonderful system that  you have helped to create
 in a professional context. HoweverŠ. It is just a real pain that it does not
 work properly on a Mac largely because of install problems I believe. I fully
 understand your effort and all those who along with you have helped create 
 Lyx
 in the form it is today ­ thank you- but that is not the point ­ nobody 
 should
 put any software out to the public which does not work as it should­ my time
 as yours is valuable. It is simply not professional.
 Mark
 
 From:  Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org
 Date:  Friday, 28 March 2014 10:44
 To:  Murat Yildizoglu murat.yildizo...@u-bordeaux4.fr
 Cc:  Mark Salmon markhsal...@gmail.com, Steven Fredman
 stevenfred...@gmail.com, LyX Users List

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Mark Salmon]

Murat 
Thank you for your reply. If these problems which have frustrated me and
wasted my time‹ are well known by other users and there are solutions to
them  as you say ‹- then WHY have the solutions not been embedded in the
latest beta?
I understand software development issues and the need to update as changes
are made but my comment above remains- as a simple user I need to be able to
use the software- if there are well know problems in the software on
particular platforms then surely the developers have a responsibility to
remove them when the  software is upgraded? This applies equally to open
source community based as to commercial software.
Mark

From:  Murat Yildizoglu murat.yildizo...@u-bordeaux4.fr
Date:  Friday, 28 March 2014 13:39
To:  Mark Salmon markhsal...@gmail.com
Cc:  Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org, Murat Yildizoglu
murat.yildizo...@u-bordeaux4.fr, LyX Users List lyx-users@lists.lyx.org
Subject:  Re: Adding new class into LyX

Mark,

I understand your frustrations, but these installation discrepancies are
small problems, and they are perfectly known normally by the users (you can
search the mail list, and you will find these problems there and solutions
to them). So you have not been cheated by a commercial vendor hiding from
you the deficiencies of the product he sells (see below on your
responsibilities as a user, from my point of view as a user)...

There was also a lot of discussion about the big rewriting of the BEAMER
module in the previous beta version. This is a big change, but it goes in
the correct direction, even if each of us had to take sometime to get used
to the new standard. You should read the documentation on the new beamer
module. My beamer slides from much older versions of LyX have nearly all
been imported without any big problems (including elements in the preamble,
but see the end of this paragraph). You sometime need to add a separation at
the end of a slide, and eliminate instructions - old tricks - that are not
necessary in the newer versions of beamer.

In any case, this is a software developed by a community of dedicated
developers with limited resources, as J ürgen reminds it in his message. And
I am grateful to them that they indeed put this software out to the
public, to which I belong (I am mainly a user).

Communities developing open source softs cannot just reply take it or leave
it to users who formulate criticisms, but these users have also the
responsibility of taking time to collect some information about the soft
before adopting it  (because adopting a new software is a time consuming
process, whatever is the software - commercial like SWP or not), and of
making suggestions of amelioration for the soft, when they have new needs,
instead of flaming the community with their definitive improductive
judgements. 

I hope that you will quickly solve your problems.

Murat


2014-03-28 13:58 GMT+01:00 Mark Salmon markhsal...@gmail.com:
 Aplogies for lack of immediate  response - I had to teach. I have had
 frustrations with Lyx  ever since I moved from SciWord several years ago.
 Yesterday I upgraded to the latest beta and now when I try and load up a New
 file I get the error message that there is no begin document command when
 there clearly is in the source file- I wasted half a day trying to work out
 what was wrong- in fact I still don¹t know what was wrong but by removing use
 theme warsaw from the Latex preamble it works for some reason- secondly the
 installation on MacOSx does not drop the relevant files -templates  etc. in
 the right places where the system can find them ‹- so when I ask for a New
 from template I am told the file will not compile as it requires external
 files which are not available.etc. Etc. etc. can you understand how
 frustrating this is when you are under pressure???  I am not a TeX speaker but
 someone who needs to use the wonderful system that  you have helped to create
 in a professional context. HoweverŠ. It is just a real pain that it does not
 work properly on a Mac largely because of install problems I believe. I fully
 understand your effort and all those who along with you have helped create Lyx
 in the form it is today ­ thank you- but that is not the point ­ nobody should
 put any software out to the public which does not work as it should­ my time
 as yours is valuable. It is simply not professional.
 Mark
 
 From:  Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org
 Date:  Friday, 28 March 2014 10:44
 To:  Murat Yildizoglu murat.yildizo...@u-bordeaux4.fr
 Cc:  Mark Salmon markhsal...@gmail.com, Steven Fredman
 stevenfred...@gmail.com, LyX Users List lyx-users@lists.lyx.org
 Subject:  Re: Adding new class into LyX
 
 2014-03-28 11:33 GMT+01:00 Murat Yildizoglu:
 Don't get vexed so quickly Jürgen :-)  The users should be able to tell the
 problems they meet.
 
 Sure, but in a constructive way. We cannot fix a total waste of time and
 terrible support.
  
 It is true that writing a module for supporting a new class file

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Anders Ekberg]

From:  Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org
Date:  fredag 28 mars 2014 16:16
To:  Anders Ekberg a...@mac.com
Cc:  LyX Users List lyx-users@lists.lyx.org
Subject:  Re: Adding new class into LyX

 2014-03-28 16:11 GMT+01:00 Anders Ekberg:
 Quoting myself ²Š  I suspect it could be a bit difficult to solve² shows
 either my complete ignorance of programming (which I hope is not correct) or
 your high abilities (which I hope is correct). I am impressed!
 
 I wish you were right with your second statement, but this was really trivial
 (and not even a programming task).
 
 Jürgen

Ouch, that means I have to shape up significantly on my programming
knowledge ;-)

Have a nice weekend!
/Anders

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Anders Ekberg]

 2014-03-28 13:58 GMT+01:00 Mark Salmon markhsal...@gmail.com:
 Aplogies for lack of immediate  response - I had to teach. I have had
 frustrations with Lyx  ever since I moved from SciWord several years ago.
 Yesterday I upgraded to the latest beta and now when I try and load up a New
 file I get the error message that there is no begin document command when
 there clearly is in the source file- I wasted half a day trying to work out
 what was wrong- in fact I still don¹t know what was wrong but by removing use
 theme warsaw from the Latex preamble it works for some reason- secondly the
 installation on MacOSx does not drop the relevant files -templates  etc. in
 the right places where the system can find them ‹- so when I ask for a New
 from template I am told the file will not compile as it requires external
 files which are not available.etc. Etc. etc. can you understand how
 frustrating this is when you are under pressure???  I am not a TeX speaker
 but someone who needs to use the wonderful system that  you have helped to
 create in a professional context. HoweverŠ. It is just a real pain that it
 does not work properly on a Mac largely because of install problems I
 believe. I fully understand your effort and all those who along with you have
 helped create Lyx in the form it is today ­ thank you- but that is not the
 point ­ nobody should put any software out to the public which does not work
 as it should­ my time as yours is valuable. It is simply not professional.
 
 1. If you install beta software, be aware that it is beta software. The
 announcement of LyX 2.1beta and LyX 2.1rc clearly state that this release is
 for testing purposes only, users are encouraged to use current 2.0 stable
 release for any serious work.
 
 2. LyX is a community project, not a commercial product. The developers are
 all volunteers and have jobs (I am, as you, a researcher and teacher at the
 university). So if you do not have time to give at least constructive feedback
 (one way of participating), then use commercial software and pay for the
 support.
 
 Regards
 Jürgen

I completely agree with Jurgen when I ask for a New from template I am told
the file will not compile as it requires external files which are not
available.etc² is not really helpful for solving your problem. (A good idea
if you want someone to really help you is to make it as easy as possible for
them ­ if you just want to complain that is another thing ;-)

Anyway, if I try to reproduce on a freshly installed 2.1rc1 on a Mac by
taking the elsarticle template, i get an error that
../examples/biblioExample.bib is not found. (I assume the reason is that the
template resides in ~/Library/Application Support/Lyx-2.1/templates/ but
gets moved to ~/Documents/ when you create a new file.

If your problem is something like that (which, as said, I don¹t know) then
click on the gray box with BibTeX-generated bibliography, remove the current
database and add the biblioExample by browsing and selecting
~/Library/Application Support/Lyx-2.1/examples/biblioExample.bib
And now it works.
I agree that this is not really good, but I suspect it could be a bit
difficult to solve. Also you usually provide your own bibliography when
using the template.

As I said, I have no idea if your problem is similar (judging from the first
comment, I would suspect that you would also require a Reconfigure of LyX
and possible to do a sudo texhash from the Terminal to get things to work).
But as Jürgen pointed out: If you can¹t take time to explain what your
problem is, then buy commercial program/support (especially if they get paid
by the hour in supporting ;-)

Have a nice weekend!
Anders

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Rainer M Krug]

Steve Litt sl...@troubleshooters.com writes:

 On Fri, 28 Mar 2014 11:33:57 +0100
 Murat Yildizoglu murat.yildizo...@u-bordeaux4.fr wrote:

 Don't get vexed so quickly Jürgen :-)  The users should be able to
 tell the problems they meet.
 
 Of course, I find quite excessive to speak of LyX's lack of support
 for Mac or total waste of time.

 You think? :-)

 Funny, I didn't see an offer from Mark to help make LyX more Mac
 friendly, whatever that might mean. I mean, probably most of us don't
 even have Macs to test LyX on. I know I don't.

 I didn't see Mark fork the project or make an alternative.

 He can't help us, he can't forge a new path, so he impotently rants.

 I think the LyX project ought to have a page for Apple users explaining
 what free software is and isn't, who creates it and why they create it,
 and a brief explanation of the fact that Mac users can always buy their
 solutions if free software doesn't float their boat.

I am a Mac user - I love LyX - I report bugs (and sometimes bug others on
the list with questions) - so please don't say Apple users. I am sure
there are even more windows users who have unrealistic expectations -
and probably even some Linux users.

So - yes - a page explaining the principle of free software, how it
works, who works on it (a list of the core devs of Lyx would make clear
how few there are...) and how all users can (and should) contribute
would make a lot of sense. And not only for Apple users.

Overall: good suggestion!


 SteveT

 Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
 Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance


-- 
Rainer M. Krug
email: Raineratkrugsdotde
PGP: 0x0F52F982


pgpMRAatAsWKh.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

2014-03-28 10:25 GMT+01:00 Steven Fredman:

> Hi
>
> I'm trying to import a new class into LyX. The class and all of it's
> associated files can be found at
> http://labproj.eie.wits.ac.za/labproj/papers/witseie-paper-2005.zip
>
> I've spent quite a bit of time on Google looking for a method to do this,
> but all of the tutorials are vague and seem to contradict each other - I've
> followed the instructions on a number of them and they don't seem to work.
>
> Can you please give me a clear set of instructions of how to go about
> adding this type of document.
>
> I'm running LyX Version 2.0.7 with MiKTeX 2.9.4248 on Windows 8 64-bit.
>
> Alternatively, is there a better or easier way for me to use the template
> provided?
>
> Any assistance will be greatly appreciated.
>

This looks like an article class, so the first step to get it up and
running would be a simple wrapper layout to the standard article class, as
attached. Put this in your Personal LyX directory (as displayed in Help >
About LyX) in a folder called "layouts". Then issue Edit > Reconfigure.

This will give you basic support. If you need any further layouts and
features that are not included in the article layout, add it to this layout
file. Look in other article/paper layout files for models or ask here.

HTH
Jürgen




>
> Thanks
> Kind Regards
> Steven Fredman
>


whitseiepaper.layout
Description: Binary data

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Mark Salmon]

I totally agree!!!I have wasted so much time trying and given up. Also where
is the best repository for alternative classes- I am using a Mac OSX - like
many Mac users have nearly given up with LyX¹s lack of support for Mac- LyX
is a pleasure when it works but when it doesn¹t it is a total waste of time
and time is something we just don¹t have. The documentation just isn¹t clear
and Mac support is terrible.

From:  Steven Fredman 
Date:  Friday, 28 March 2014 09:25
To:  
Subject:  Adding new class into LyX

Hi

I'm trying to import a new class into LyX. The class and all of it's
associated files can be found at
http://labproj.eie.wits.ac.za/labproj/papers/witseie-paper-2005.zip

I've spent quite a bit of time on Google looking for a method to do this,
but all of the tutorials are vague and seem to contradict each other - I've
followed the instructions on a number of them and they don't seem to work.

Can you please give me a clear set of instructions of how to go about adding
this type of document.

I'm running LyX Version 2.0.7 with MiKTeX 2.9.4248 on Windows 8 64-bit.

Alternatively, is there a better or easier way for me to use the template
provided?

Any assistance will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Kind Regards
Steven Fredman

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Stephan Witt]

Am 28.03.2014 um 10:46 schrieb Mark Salmon :

> I totally agree!!!I have wasted so much time trying and given up. Also where 
> is the best repository for alternative classes- I am using a Mac OSX - like 
> many Mac users have nearly given up with LyX’s lack of support for Mac- LyX 
> is a pleasure when it works but when it doesn’t it is a total waste of time 
> and time is something we just don’t have. The documentation just isn’t clear 
> and Mac support is terrible.

Would you mind to be more specific? What is terrible?

Stephan

> 
> From: Steven Fredman 
> Date: Friday, 28 March 2014 09:25
> To: 
> Subject: Adding new class into LyX
> 
> Hi
> 
> I'm trying to import a new class into LyX. The class and all of it's 
> associated files can be found at 
> http://labproj.eie.wits.ac.za/labproj/papers/witseie-paper-2005.zip
> 
> I've spent quite a bit of time on Google looking for a method to do this, but 
> all of the tutorials are vague and seem to contradict each other - I've 
> followed the instructions on a number of them and they don't seem to work.
> 
> Can you please give me a clear set of instructions of how to go about adding 
> this type of document.
> 
> I'm running LyX Version 2.0.7 with MiKTeX 2.9.4248 on Windows 8 64-bit.
> 
> Alternatively, is there a better or easier way for me to use the template 
> provided?
> 
> Any assistance will be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks
> Kind Regards
> Steven Fredman

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

2014-03-28 10:46 GMT+01:00 Mark Salmon:

> I totally agree!!!I have wasted so much time trying and given up. Also
> where is the best repository for alternative classes- I am using a Mac OSX
> - like many Mac users have nearly given up with LyX's lack of support for
> Mac- LyX is a pleasure when it works but when it doesn't it is a total
> waste of time and time is something we just don't have.
>

Aha. And you think the LyX developers, a small group of volunteers, are
blessed with an infinite treasure of free time?

Jürgen

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Murat Yildizoglu]

Don't get vexed so quickly Jürgen :-)  The users should be able to tell the
problems they meet.

Of course, I find quite excessive to speak of "LyX's lack of support for
Mac" or "total waste of time".

I use LyX under OSX with a lot of pleasure and the fact that you spend time
to make this possible is a bounty for us.

Moreover, this specific problem has no special root in the OSX version, I
think, since the latex classes and the LyX modules are compatible between
all versions.

It is true that writing a module for supporting a new class file is not
very easy, but I do not know how it could be. We must find a way to tell to
the WSYWYM software a way to represent on the screen the new logical
components that are specific to this new class. Scientific Word (a
commercial software costing a LOT money- especially in France) has always
been confronted to the same problem, even if they provided a graphical
style composer (it was not very easy to use either, but I have not tested
it recently, since I have switched to Lyx).

The only point that has maybe been somewhat deficient in the OSX support is
the lack of support of Retina screens (so I am sticking to MacBooks with
1400x900 screens :-)  ), but this is a limitation due to QT if I have
understood well the problem.
Given Nokia's problems, I do not know if the future of QT is very bright
any way... Moreover, there were rumors on the mailing list indicating that
the next version of QT would be Retina-compatible, but I have not followed
this issue further.




2014-03-28 11:09 GMT+01:00 Jürgen Spitzmüller :

> 2014-03-28 10:46 GMT+01:00 Mark Salmon:
>
>>  I totally agree!!!I have wasted so much time trying and given up. Also
>> where is the best repository for alternative classes- I am using a Mac OSX
>> - like many Mac users have nearly given up with LyX's lack of support for
>> Mac- LyX is a pleasure when it works but when it doesn't it is a total
>> waste of time and time is something we just don't have.
>>
>
> Aha. And you think the LyX developers, a small group of volunteers, are
> blessed with an infinite treasure of free time?
>
> Jürgen
>
>


-- 


*Prof. Murat Yildizoglu*

Note: Please use the following address as such

UNIVERSITE DE BORDEAUX
GREThA (UMR CNRS 5113)
MURAT YILDIZOGLU
16 AVENUE LEON DUGUIT
CS 50057
33608 PESSAC CEDEX
FRANCE

Bureau : E-331

mail: yildi-at-u-bordeaux4.fr

web: yildizoglu.info

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

2014-03-28 11:33 GMT+01:00 Murat Yildizoglu:

> Don't get vexed so quickly Jürgen :-)  The users should be able to tell
> the problems they meet.
>

Sure, but in a constructive way. We cannot fix "a total waste of time" and
"terrible support".


> It is true that writing a module for supporting a new class file is not
> very easy, but I do not know how it could be. We must find a way to tell to
> the WSYWYM software a way to represent on the screen the new logical
> components that are specific to this new class. Scientific Word (a
> commercial software costing a LOT money- especially in France) has always
> been confronted to the same problem, even if they provided a graphical
> style composer (it was not very easy to use either, but I have not tested
> it recently, since I have switched to Lyx).
>

Sure. We all want some graphical tool to setup layout files. There even
were attempts to do so. But then, we are about 7 persons in the core team,
all of has have a job and a career, so it is a it is in OSS: Things get
implemented if someone finds the time and interest.

OTOH, I think LyX has a great community. Usually, if someone requests for
help with setting up a layout, he gets help within the same day. I have
responded the OP within minutes, even though I actually have a paper to
write myself at this very moment (where the deadline has passed already).

So with all respect to wishes and dreams, my understanding for such
unconstructive rants is rather limited.

Jürgen

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Mark Salmon]

Aplogies for lack of immediate  response - I had to teach. I have had
frustrations with Lyx  ever since I moved from SciWord several years ago.
Yesterday I upgraded to the latest beta and now when I try and load up a New
file I get the error message that there is no begin document command when
there clearly is in the source file- I wasted half a day trying to work out
what was wrong- in fact I still don¹t know what was wrong but by removing
use theme warsaw from the Latex preamble it works for some reason- secondly
the installation on MacOSx does not drop the relevant files -templates  etc.
in the right places where the system can find them ‹- so when I ask for a
New from template I am told the file will not compile as it requires
external files which are not available.etc. Etc. etc. can you understand how
frustrating this is when you are under pressure???  I am not a TeX speaker
but someone who needs to use the wonderful system that  you have helped to
create in a professional context. HoweverŠ. It is just a real pain that it
does not work properly on a Mac largely because of install problems I
believe. I fully understand your effort and all those who along with you
have helped create Lyx in the form it is today ­ thank you- but that is not
the point ­ nobody should put any software out to the public which does not
work as it should­ my time as yours is valuable. It is simply not
professional.
Mark

From:  Jürgen Spitzmüller <sp...@lyx.org>
Date:  Friday, 28 March 2014 10:44
To:  Murat Yildizoglu <murat.yildizo...@u-bordeaux4.fr>
Cc:  Mark Salmon <markhsal...@gmail.com>, Steven Fredman
<stevenfred...@gmail.com>, LyX Users List <lyx-users@lists.lyx.org>
Subject:  Re: Adding new class into LyX

2014-03-28 11:33 GMT+01:00 Murat Yildizoglu:
> Don't get vexed so quickly Jürgen :-)  The users should be able to tell the
> problems they meet.

Sure, but in a constructive way. We cannot fix "a total waste of time" and
"terrible support".
 
> It is true that writing a module for supporting a new class file is not very
> easy, but I do not know how it could be. We must find a way to tell to the
> WSYWYM software a way to represent on the screen the new logical components
> that are specific to this new class. Scientific Word (a commercial software
> costing a LOT money- especially in France) has always been confronted to the
> same problem, even if they provided a graphical style composer (it was not
> very easy to use either, but I have not tested it recently, since I have
> switched to Lyx).

Sure. We all want some graphical tool to setup layout files. There even were
attempts to do so. But then, we are about 7 persons in the core team, all of
has have a job and a career, so it is a it is in OSS: Things get implemented
if someone finds the time and interest.

OTOH, I think LyX has a great community. Usually, if someone requests for
help with setting up a layout, he gets help within the same day. I have
responded the OP within minutes, even though I actually have a paper to
write myself at this very moment (where the deadline has passed already).

So with all respect to wishes and dreams, my understanding for such
unconstructive rants is rather limited.

Jürgen

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

2014-03-28 13:58 GMT+01:00 Mark Salmon <markhsal...@gmail.com>:

> Aplogies for lack of immediate  response - I had to teach. I have had
> frustrations with Lyx  ever since I moved from SciWord several years ago.
> Yesterday I upgraded to the latest beta and now when I try and load up a
> New file I get the error message that there is no begin document command
> when there clearly is in the source file- I wasted half a day trying to
> work out what was wrong- in fact I still don't know what was wrong but by
> removing use theme warsaw from the Latex preamble it works for some reason-
> secondly the installation on MacOSx does not drop the relevant files
> -templates  etc. in the right places where the system can find them --- so
> when I ask for a New from template I am told the file will not compile as
> it requires external files which are not available.etc. Etc. etc. can you
> understand how frustrating this is when you are under pressure???  I am not
> a TeX speaker but someone who needs to use the wonderful system that  you
> have helped to create in a professional context. However It is just a
> real pain that it does not work properly on a Mac largely because of
> install problems I believe. I fully understand your effort and all those
> who along with you have helped create Lyx in the form it is today - thank
> you- but that is not the point - nobody should put any software out to the
> public which does not work as it should- my time as yours is valuable. It
> is simply not professional.
>

1. If you install beta software, be aware that it is beta software. The
announcement of LyX 2.1beta and LyX 2.1rc clearly state that "this release
is for testing purposes only, users are encouraged to use current 2.0
stable release for any serious work."

2. LyX is a community project, not a commercial product. The developers are
all volunteers and have jobs (I am, as you, a researcher and teacher at the
university). So if you do not have time to give at least constructive
feedback (one way of "participating"), then use commercial software and pay
for the support.

Regards
Jürgen



> Mark
>
> From: Jürgen Spitzmüller <sp...@lyx.org>
> Date: Friday, 28 March 2014 10:44
> To: Murat Yildizoglu <murat.yildizo...@u-bordeaux4.fr>
> Cc: Mark Salmon <markhsal...@gmail.com>, Steven Fredman <
> stevenfred...@gmail.com>, LyX Users List <lyx-users@lists.lyx.org>
> Subject: Re: Adding new class into LyX
>
> 2014-03-28 11:33 GMT+01:00 Murat Yildizoglu:
>
>> Don't get vexed so quickly Jürgen :-)  The users should be able to tell
>> the problems they meet.
>>
>
> Sure, but in a constructive way. We cannot fix "a total waste of time" and
> "terrible support".
>
>
>> It is true that writing a module for supporting a new class file is not
>> very easy, but I do not know how it could be. We must find a way to tell to
>> the WSYWYM software a way to represent on the screen the new logical
>> components that are specific to this new class. Scientific Word (a
>> commercial software costing a LOT money- especially in France) has always
>> been confronted to the same problem, even if they provided a graphical
>> style composer (it was not very easy to use either, but I have not tested
>> it recently, since I have switched to Lyx).
>>
>
> Sure. We all want some graphical tool to setup layout files. There even
> were attempts to do so. But then, we are about 7 persons in the core team,
> all of has have a job and a career, so it is a it is in OSS: Things get
> implemented if someone finds the time and interest.
>
> OTOH, I think LyX has a great community. Usually, if someone requests for
> help with setting up a layout, he gets help within the same day. I have
> responded the OP within minutes, even though I actually have a paper to
> write myself at this very moment (where the deadline has passed already).
>
> So with all respect to wishes and dreams, my understanding for such
> unconstructive rants is rather limited.
>
> Jürgen
>
>

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Murat Yildizoglu]

Mark,

I understand your frustrations, but these installation discrepancies are
small problems, and they are perfectly known normally by the users (you can
search the mail list, and you will find these problems there and solutions
to them). So you have not been cheated by a commercial vendor hiding from
you the deficiencies of the product he sells (see below on your
responsibilities as a user, from my point of view as a user)...

There was also a lot of discussion about the big rewriting of the BEAMER
module in the previous beta version. This is a big change, but it goes in
the correct direction, even if each of us had to take sometime to get used
to the new standard. You should read the documentation on the new beamer
module. My beamer slides from much older versions of LyX have nearly all
been imported without any big problems (including elements in the preamble,
but see the end of this paragraph). You sometime need to add a separation
at the end of a slide, and eliminate instructions - old tricks - that are
not necessary in the newer versions of beamer.

In any case, this is a software developed by a community of dedicated
developers with limited resources, as J ürgen reminds it in his message.
And I am grateful to them that they indeed "put this software out to the
public", to which I belong (I am mainly a user).

Communities developing open source softs cannot just reply "take it or
leave it" to users who formulate criticisms, but these users have also the
responsibility of taking time to collect some information about the soft
before adopting it  (because adopting a new software is a time consuming
process, whatever is the software - commercial like SWP or not), and of
making suggestions of amelioration for the soft, when they have new needs,
instead of flaming the community with their definitive improductive
judgements.

I hope that you will quickly solve your problems.

Murat


2014-03-28 13:58 GMT+01:00 Mark Salmon <markhsal...@gmail.com>:

> Aplogies for lack of immediate  response - I had to teach. I have had
> frustrations with Lyx  ever since I moved from SciWord several years ago.
> Yesterday I upgraded to the latest beta and now when I try and load up a
> New file I get the error message that there is no begin document command
> when there clearly is in the source file- I wasted half a day trying to
> work out what was wrong- in fact I still don't know what was wrong but by
> removing use theme warsaw from the Latex preamble it works for some reason-
> secondly the installation on MacOSx does not drop the relevant files
> -templates  etc. in the right places where the system can find them --- so
> when I ask for a New from template I am told the file will not compile as
> it requires external files which are not available.etc. Etc. etc. can you
> understand how frustrating this is when you are under pressure???  I am not
> a TeX speaker but someone who needs to use the wonderful system that  you
> have helped to create in a professional context. However It is just a
> real pain that it does not work properly on a Mac largely because of
> install problems I believe. I fully understand your effort and all those
> who along with you have helped create Lyx in the form it is today - thank
> you- but that is not the point - nobody should put any software out to the
> public which does not work as it should- my time as yours is valuable. It
> is simply not professional.
> Mark
>
> From: Jürgen Spitzmüller <sp...@lyx.org>
> Date: Friday, 28 March 2014 10:44
> To: Murat Yildizoglu <murat.yildizo...@u-bordeaux4.fr>
> Cc: Mark Salmon <markhsal...@gmail.com>, Steven Fredman <
> stevenfred...@gmail.com>, LyX Users List <lyx-users@lists.lyx.org>
> Subject: Re: Adding new class into LyX
>
> 2014-03-28 11:33 GMT+01:00 Murat Yildizoglu:
>
>> Don't get vexed so quickly Jürgen :-)  The users should be able to tell
>> the problems they meet.
>>
>
> Sure, but in a constructive way. We cannot fix "a total waste of time" and
> "terrible support".
>
>
>> It is true that writing a module for supporting a new class file is not
>> very easy, but I do not know how it could be. We must find a way to tell to
>> the WSYWYM software a way to represent on the screen the new logical
>> components that are specific to this new class. Scientific Word (a
>> commercial software costing a LOT money- especially in France) has always
>> been confronted to the same problem, even if they provided a graphical
>> style composer (it was not very easy to use either, but I have not tested
>> it recently, since I have switched to Lyx).
>>
>
> Sure. We all want some graphical tool to setup layout files. There even
> were attempts to do so. But then, we are about 7 persons

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

2014-03-28 14:42 GMT+01:00 Anders Ekberg :

> Anyway, if I try to reproduce on a freshly installed 2.1rc1 on a Mac by
> taking the elsarticle template, i get an error that
> ../examples/biblioExample.bib is not found. (I assume the reason is that
> the template resides in ~/Library/Application Support/Lyx-2.1/templates/
> but gets moved to ~/Documents/ when you create a new file.
>

Thanks for the report. This looks like another instance of
http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/8643

I've added a note to that ticket.

Jürgen

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Murat Yildizoglu]

Mark,
J urgen has already replied your question: the community of developers and
their resources are limited, and they do what they can to provide us with
the best LyX they can.
It is really not a big problem for a user (that is, to someone possessing
all necessary user rights on his/her Mac's OSX) to go inside the LyX bundle
and copy the templates folder to some other folder and give it to LyX as a
parameter in the preferences. If the installation process does not do this,
I conclude that this is not easy for the developers and that there are
other priorities for the usability of the software. The user can search the
answers by the community to get this simple solution and implement it.

If community managed software with its specific constraints (which does not
exclude the possibility of suggesting developments, supporting them
sometime, and contributing yourself if you can) is not convenient for you,
you should use other types of software  (but be prepared to be disappointed
because commercial software companies are not reputed to react more quickly
then LyX developers to my experience (including Microsoft and MacKichan -
even the community is very nice in this last case, but again with the
constraints of a community ;-)  ).

I will stop here, because I have shared everything I can share with you on
this point.

Best regards,

Murat



2014-03-28 14:53 GMT+01:00 Mark Salmon <markhsal...@gmail.com>:

> Murat
> Thank you for your reply. If these problems which have frustrated me and
> wasted my time-- are well known by other users and there are solutions to
> them  as you say --- then WHY have the solutions not been embedded in the
> latest beta?
> I understand software development issues and the need to update as changes
> are made but my comment above remains- as a simple user I need to be able
> to use the software- if there are well know problems in the software on
> particular platforms then surely the developers have a responsibility to
> remove them when the  software is upgraded? This applies equally to open
> source community based as to commercial software.
> Mark
>
> From: Murat Yildizoglu <murat.yildizo...@u-bordeaux4.fr>
> Date: Friday, 28 March 2014 13:39
> To: Mark Salmon <markhsal...@gmail.com>
> Cc: Jürgen Spitzmüller <sp...@lyx.org>, Murat Yildizoglu <
> murat.yildizo...@u-bordeaux4.fr>, LyX Users List <lyx-users@lists.lyx.org>
>
> Subject: Re: Adding new class into LyX
>
> Mark,
>
> I understand your frustrations, but these installation discrepancies are
> small problems, and they are perfectly known normally by the users (you can
> search the mail list, and you will find these problems there and solutions
> to them). So you have not been cheated by a commercial vendor hiding from
> you the deficiencies of the product he sells (see below on your
> responsibilities as a user, from my point of view as a user)...
>
> There was also a lot of discussion about the big rewriting of the BEAMER
> module in the previous beta version. This is a big change, but it goes in
> the correct direction, even if each of us had to take sometime to get used
> to the new standard. You should read the documentation on the new beamer
> module. My beamer slides from much older versions of LyX have nearly all
> been imported without any big problems (including elements in the preamble,
> but see the end of this paragraph). You sometime need to add a separation
> at the end of a slide, and eliminate instructions - old tricks - that are
> not necessary in the newer versions of beamer.
>
> In any case, this is a software developed by a community of dedicated
> developers with limited resources, as J ürgen reminds it in his message.
> And I am grateful to them that they indeed "put this software out to the
> public", to which I belong (I am mainly a user).
>
> Communities developing open source softs cannot just reply "take it or
> leave it" to users who formulate criticisms, but these users have also the
> responsibility of taking time to collect some information about the soft
> before adopting it  (because adopting a new software is a time consuming
> process, whatever is the software - commercial like SWP or not), and of
> making suggestions of amelioration for the soft, when they have new needs,
> instead of flaming the community with their definitive improductive
> judgements.
>
> I hope that you will quickly solve your problems.
>
> Murat
>
>
> 2014-03-28 13:58 GMT+01:00 Mark Salmon <markhsal...@gmail.com>:
>
>> Aplogies for lack of immediate  response - I had to teach. I have had
>> frustrations with Lyx  ever since I moved from SciWord several years ago.
>> Yesterday I upgraded to the latest beta and now when I try and load up a
>> New file

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

2014-03-28 14:58 GMT+01:00 Jürgen Spitzmüller:

> Thanks for the report. This looks like another instance of
> http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/8643
>
> I've added a note to that ticket.
>

And fixed the problem for the next release.

Jürgen



>
> Jürgen
>

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

2014-03-28 16:11 GMT+01:00 Anders Ekberg:

> Quoting myself "...  I suspect it could be a bit difficult to solve" shows
>  either my complete ignorance of programming (which I hope is not correct)
> or your high abilities (which I hope is correct). I am impressed!
>

I wish you were right with your second statement, but this was really
trivial (and not even a "programming" task).

Jürgen


>
> All the best!
> Anders
>

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Steve Litt]

On Fri, 28 Mar 2014 15:06:11 +0100
Rainer M Krug  wrote:


> Hi Mark
> 
> This is getting ridiculous. As far as I know, everybody can choose
> their software. If you are not happy with LyX / beamer, use
> Powerpoint.

Exactly. I've never been happy with LyX/beamer, so I either make my
presentations in LibreOffice, or in Beamer using Vim. Everyone uses LyX
for circumstances where they find it the best tool, and use other
software for other purposes.

And I want to thank the developers for the software with which I put
out about 8 books over 13 years. The LyX developers materially improved
my business.

SteveT

Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Steve Litt]

On Fri, 28 Mar 2014 11:33:57 +0100
Murat Yildizoglu  wrote:

> Don't get vexed so quickly Jürgen :-)  The users should be able to
> tell the problems they meet.
> 
> Of course, I find quite excessive to speak of "LyX's lack of support
> for Mac" or "total waste of time".

You think? :-)

Funny, I didn't see an offer from Mark to help make LyX more Mac
friendly, whatever that might mean. I mean, probably most of us don't
even have Macs to test LyX on. I know I don't.

I didn't see Mark fork the project or make an alternative.

He can't help us, he can't forge a new path, so he impotently rants.

I think the LyX project ought to have a page for Apple users explaining
what free software is and isn't, who creates it and why they create it,
and a brief explanation of the fact that Mac users can always buy their
solutions if free software doesn't float their boat.

SteveT

Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Steve Litt]

Hey Mark,

And you're still on this list why?

Don't let the door hit you in the rear end on your way out.

SteveT

On Fri, 28 Mar 2014 09:46:03 +
Mark Salmon  wrote:

> I totally agree!!!I have wasted so much time trying and given up.
> Also where is the best repository for alternative classes- I am using
> a Mac OSX - like many Mac users have nearly given up with LyX¹s lack
> of support for Mac- LyX is a pleasure when it works but when it
> doesn¹t it is a total waste of time and time is something we just
> don¹t have. The documentation just isn¹t clear and Mac support is
> terrible.
> 
> From:  Steven Fredman 
> Date:  Friday, 28 March 2014 09:25
> To:  
> Subject:  Adding new class into LyX
> 
> Hi
> 
> I'm trying to import a new class into LyX. The class and all of it's
> associated files can be found at
> http://labproj.eie.wits.ac.za/labproj/papers/witseie-paper-2005.zip
> 
> I've spent quite a bit of time on Google looking for a method to do
> this, but all of the tutorials are vague and seem to contradict each
> other - I've followed the instructions on a number of them and they
> don't seem to work.
> 
> Can you please give me a clear set of instructions of how to go about
> adding this type of document.
> 
> I'm running LyX Version 2.0.7 with MiKTeX 2.9.4248 on Windows 8
> 64-bit.
> 
> Alternatively, is there a better or easier way for me to use the
> template provided?
> 
> Any assistance will be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks
> Kind Regards
> Steven Fredman

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Richard Heck]

On 03/28/2014 06:44 AM, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote:

2014-03-28 11:33 GMT+01:00 Murat Yildizoglu:

Don't get vexed so quickly Jürgen :-)  The users should be able to
tell the problems they meet.


Sure, but in a constructive way. We cannot fix "a total waste of time" 
and "terrible support".


It is true that writing a module for supporting a new class file
is not very easy, but I do not know how it could be. We must find
a way to tell to the WSYWYM software a way to represent on the
screen the new logical components that are specific to this new
class. Scientific Word (a commercial software costing a LOT money-
especially in France) has always been confronted to the same
problem, even if they provided a graphical style composer (it was
not very easy to use either, but I have not tested it recently,
since I have switched to Lyx).


Sure. We all want some graphical tool to setup layout files. There 
even were attempts to do so.


Even that does not help that much. You would still have to go through 
the class file, or an example, or whatever, and create the layout. 
That's where the real work is, IMHO, and there is no way around it. No 
one is going to write some program to parse cls files and create layout 
files from them. I'm not ever sure it's possible, in any realistic sense.


People who want LyX to support new class files have to be willing to do 
the work. That's not to say the original poster isn't. But it's silly 
for anyone to expect *us* to do it.


Richard

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Anders Ekberg]

From:  Jürgen Spitzmüller 2014-03-28 14:58 GMT+01:00 Jürgen
Spitzmüller:
>> Thanks for the report. This looks like another instance of
>> http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/8643
>> 
>> I've added a note to that ticket.
> 
> And fixed the problem for the next release.
> 
> Jürgen

Quoting myself ²Š  I suspect it could be a bit difficult to solve² shows
either my complete ignorance of programming (which I hope is not correct) or
your high abilities (which I hope is correct). I am impressed!

All the best!
Anders

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Rainer M Krug]

Mark Salmon <markhsal...@gmail.com> writes:

> Murat 
> Thank you for your reply. If these problems which have frustrated me and
> wasted my time‹ are well known by other users and there are solutions to
> them  as you say ‹- then WHY have the solutions not been embedded in the
> latest beta?
> I understand software development issues and the need to update as changes
> are made but my comment above remains- as a simple user I need to be able to
> use the software- if there are well know problems in the software on
> particular platforms then surely the developers have a responsibility to
> remove them when the  software is upgraded? 

Hi Mark

This is getting ridiculous. As far as I know, everybody can choose their
software. If you are not happy with LyX / beamer, use Powerpoint.

The developers of LyX are doing an AWESOME job - and if you think not,
then do it yourself or use another softeware.

Cheers,

Rainer


> This applies equally to open
> source community based as to commercial software.
> Mark
>
> From:  Murat Yildizoglu <murat.yildizo...@u-bordeaux4.fr>
> Date:  Friday, 28 March 2014 13:39
> To:  Mark Salmon <markhsal...@gmail.com>
> Cc:  Jürgen Spitzmüller <sp...@lyx.org>, Murat Yildizoglu
> <murat.yildizo...@u-bordeaux4.fr>, LyX Users List <lyx-users@lists.lyx.org>
> Subject:  Re: Adding new class into LyX
>
> Mark,
>
> I understand your frustrations, but these installation discrepancies are
> small problems, and they are perfectly known normally by the users (you can
> search the mail list, and you will find these problems there and solutions
> to them). So you have not been cheated by a commercial vendor hiding from
> you the deficiencies of the product he sells (see below on your
> responsibilities as a user, from my point of view as a user)...
>
> There was also a lot of discussion about the big rewriting of the BEAMER
> module in the previous beta version. This is a big change, but it goes in
> the correct direction, even if each of us had to take sometime to get used
> to the new standard. You should read the documentation on the new beamer
> module. My beamer slides from much older versions of LyX have nearly all
> been imported without any big problems (including elements in the preamble,
> but see the end of this paragraph). You sometime need to add a separation at
> the end of a slide, and eliminate instructions - old tricks - that are not
> necessary in the newer versions of beamer.
>
> In any case, this is a software developed by a community of dedicated
> developers with limited resources, as J ürgen reminds it in his message. And
> I am grateful to them that they indeed "put this software out to the
> public", to which I belong (I am mainly a user).
>
> Communities developing open source softs cannot just reply "take it or leave
> it" to users who formulate criticisms, but these users have also the
> responsibility of taking time to collect some information about the soft
> before adopting it  (because adopting a new software is a time consuming
> process, whatever is the software - commercial like SWP or not), and of
> making suggestions of amelioration for the soft, when they have new needs,
> instead of flaming the community with their definitive improductive
> judgements. 
>
> I hope that you will quickly solve your problems.
>
> Murat
>
>
> 2014-03-28 13:58 GMT+01:00 Mark Salmon <markhsal...@gmail.com>:
>> Aplogies for lack of immediate  response - I had to teach. I have had
>> frustrations with Lyx  ever since I moved from SciWord several years ago.
>> Yesterday I upgraded to the latest beta and now when I try and load up a New
>> file I get the error message that there is no begin document command when
>> there clearly is in the source file- I wasted half a day trying to work out
>> what was wrong- in fact I still don¹t know what was wrong but by removing use
>> theme warsaw from the Latex preamble it works for some reason- secondly the
>> installation on MacOSx does not drop the relevant files -templates  etc. in
>> the right places where the system can find them ‹- so when I ask for a New
>> from template I am told the file will not compile as it requires external
>> files which are not available.etc. Etc. etc. can you understand how
>> frustrating this is when you are under pressure???  I am not a TeX speaker 
>> but
>> someone who needs to use the wonderful system that  you have helped to create
>> in a professional context. HoweverŠ. It is just a real pain that it does not
>> work properly on a Mac largely because of install problems I believe. I fully
>> understand your effort and all those who along with you have helped c

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Mark Salmon]

Murat 
Thank you for your reply. If these problems which have frustrated me and
wasted my time‹ are well known by other users and there are solutions to
them  as you say ‹- then WHY have the solutions not been embedded in the
latest beta?
I understand software development issues and the need to update as changes
are made but my comment above remains- as a simple user I need to be able to
use the software- if there are well know problems in the software on
particular platforms then surely the developers have a responsibility to
remove them when the  software is upgraded? This applies equally to open
source community based as to commercial software.
Mark

From:  Murat Yildizoglu <murat.yildizo...@u-bordeaux4.fr>
Date:  Friday, 28 March 2014 13:39
To:  Mark Salmon <markhsal...@gmail.com>
Cc:  Jürgen Spitzmüller <sp...@lyx.org>, Murat Yildizoglu
<murat.yildizo...@u-bordeaux4.fr>, LyX Users List <lyx-users@lists.lyx.org>
Subject:  Re: Adding new class into LyX

Mark,

I understand your frustrations, but these installation discrepancies are
small problems, and they are perfectly known normally by the users (you can
search the mail list, and you will find these problems there and solutions
to them). So you have not been cheated by a commercial vendor hiding from
you the deficiencies of the product he sells (see below on your
responsibilities as a user, from my point of view as a user)...

There was also a lot of discussion about the big rewriting of the BEAMER
module in the previous beta version. This is a big change, but it goes in
the correct direction, even if each of us had to take sometime to get used
to the new standard. You should read the documentation on the new beamer
module. My beamer slides from much older versions of LyX have nearly all
been imported without any big problems (including elements in the preamble,
but see the end of this paragraph). You sometime need to add a separation at
the end of a slide, and eliminate instructions - old tricks - that are not
necessary in the newer versions of beamer.

In any case, this is a software developed by a community of dedicated
developers with limited resources, as J ürgen reminds it in his message. And
I am grateful to them that they indeed "put this software out to the
public", to which I belong (I am mainly a user).

Communities developing open source softs cannot just reply "take it or leave
it" to users who formulate criticisms, but these users have also the
responsibility of taking time to collect some information about the soft
before adopting it  (because adopting a new software is a time consuming
process, whatever is the software - commercial like SWP or not), and of
making suggestions of amelioration for the soft, when they have new needs,
instead of flaming the community with their definitive improductive
judgements. 

I hope that you will quickly solve your problems.

Murat


2014-03-28 13:58 GMT+01:00 Mark Salmon <markhsal...@gmail.com>:
> Aplogies for lack of immediate  response - I had to teach. I have had
> frustrations with Lyx  ever since I moved from SciWord several years ago.
> Yesterday I upgraded to the latest beta and now when I try and load up a New
> file I get the error message that there is no begin document command when
> there clearly is in the source file- I wasted half a day trying to work out
> what was wrong- in fact I still don¹t know what was wrong but by removing use
> theme warsaw from the Latex preamble it works for some reason- secondly the
> installation on MacOSx does not drop the relevant files -templates  etc. in
> the right places where the system can find them ‹- so when I ask for a New
> from template I am told the file will not compile as it requires external
> files which are not available.etc. Etc. etc. can you understand how
> frustrating this is when you are under pressure???  I am not a TeX speaker but
> someone who needs to use the wonderful system that  you have helped to create
> in a professional context. HoweverŠ. It is just a real pain that it does not
> work properly on a Mac largely because of install problems I believe. I fully
> understand your effort and all those who along with you have helped create Lyx
> in the form it is today ­ thank you- but that is not the point ­ nobody should
> put any software out to the public which does not work as it should­ my time
> as yours is valuable. It is simply not professional.
> Mark
> 
> From:  Jürgen Spitzmüller <sp...@lyx.org>
> Date:  Friday, 28 March 2014 10:44
> To:  Murat Yildizoglu <murat.yildizo...@u-bordeaux4.fr>
> Cc:  Mark Salmon <markhsal...@gmail.com>, Steven Fredman
> <stevenfred...@gmail.com>, LyX Users List <lyx-users@lists.lyx.org>
> Subject:  Re: Adding new class into LyX
> 
> 2014-03-28 11:33 GMT+01:00 Murat Yildizoglu:
>> Don't get vexed so 

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Anders Ekberg]

From:  Jürgen Spitzmüller <sp...@lyx.org>
Date:  fredag 28 mars 2014 16:16
To:  Anders Ekberg <a...@mac.com>
Cc:  LyX Users List <lyx-users@lists.lyx.org>
Subject:  Re: Adding new class into LyX

> 2014-03-28 16:11 GMT+01:00 Anders Ekberg:
>> Quoting myself ²Š  I suspect it could be a bit difficult to solve² shows
>> either my complete ignorance of programming (which I hope is not correct) or
>> your high abilities (which I hope is correct). I am impressed!
> 
> I wish you were right with your second statement, but this was really trivial
> (and not even a "programming" task).
> 
> Jürgen

Ouch, that means I have to shape up significantly on my programming
knowledge ;-)

Have a nice weekend!
/Anders

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Anders Ekberg]

> 2014-03-28 13:58 GMT+01:00 Mark Salmon :
>> Aplogies for lack of immediate  response - I had to teach. I have had
>> frustrations with Lyx  ever since I moved from SciWord several years ago.
>> Yesterday I upgraded to the latest beta and now when I try and load up a New
>> file I get the error message that there is no begin document command when
>> there clearly is in the source file- I wasted half a day trying to work out
>> what was wrong- in fact I still don¹t know what was wrong but by removing use
>> theme warsaw from the Latex preamble it works for some reason- secondly the
>> installation on MacOSx does not drop the relevant files -templates  etc. in
>> the right places where the system can find them ‹- so when I ask for a New
>> from template I am told the file will not compile as it requires external
>> files which are not available.etc. Etc. etc. can you understand how
>> frustrating this is when you are under pressure???  I am not a TeX speaker
>> but someone who needs to use the wonderful system that  you have helped to
>> create in a professional context. HoweverŠ. It is just a real pain that it
>> does not work properly on a Mac largely because of install problems I
>> believe. I fully understand your effort and all those who along with you have
>> helped create Lyx in the form it is today ­ thank you- but that is not the
>> point ­ nobody should put any software out to the public which does not work
>> as it should­ my time as yours is valuable. It is simply not professional.
> 
> 1. If you install beta software, be aware that it is beta software. The
> announcement of LyX 2.1beta and LyX 2.1rc clearly state that "this release is
> for testing purposes only, users are encouraged to use current 2.0 stable
> release for any serious work."
> 
> 2. LyX is a community project, not a commercial product. The developers are
> all volunteers and have jobs (I am, as you, a researcher and teacher at the
> university). So if you do not have time to give at least constructive feedback
> (one way of "participating"), then use commercial software and pay for the
> support.
> 
> Regards
> Jürgen

I completely agree with Jurgen "when I ask for a New from template I am told
the file will not compile as it requires external files which are not
available.etc² is not really helpful for solving your problem. (A good idea
if you want someone to really help you is to make it as easy as possible for
them ­ if you just want to complain that is another thing ;-)

Anyway, if I try to reproduce on a freshly installed 2.1rc1 on a Mac by
taking the elsarticle template, i get an error that
../examples/biblioExample.bib is not found. (I assume the reason is that the
template resides in ~/Library/Application Support/Lyx-2.1/templates/ but
gets moved to ~/Documents/ when you create a new file.

If your problem is something like that (which, as said, I don¹t know) then
click on the gray box with BibTeX-generated bibliography, remove the current
database and add the biblioExample by browsing and selecting
~/Library/Application Support/Lyx-2.1/examples/biblioExample.bib
And now it works.
I agree that this is not really good, but I suspect it could be a bit
difficult to solve. Also you usually provide your own bibliography when
using the template.

As I said, I have no idea if your problem is similar (judging from the first
comment, I would suspect that you would also require a Reconfigure of LyX
and possible to do a sudo texhash from the Terminal to get things to work).
But as Jürgen pointed out: If you can¹t take time to explain what your
problem is, then buy commercial program/support (especially if they get paid
by the hour in supporting ;-)

Have a nice weekend!
Anders

Re: Adding new class into LyX

[Rainer M Krug]

Steve Litt  writes:

> On Fri, 28 Mar 2014 11:33:57 +0100
> Murat Yildizoglu  wrote:
>
>> Don't get vexed so quickly Jürgen :-)  The users should be able to
>> tell the problems they meet.
>> 
>> Of course, I find quite excessive to speak of "LyX's lack of support
>> for Mac" or "total waste of time".
>
> You think? :-)
>
> Funny, I didn't see an offer from Mark to help make LyX more Mac
> friendly, whatever that might mean. I mean, probably most of us don't
> even have Macs to test LyX on. I know I don't.
>
> I didn't see Mark fork the project or make an alternative.
>
> He can't help us, he can't forge a new path, so he impotently rants.
>
> I think the LyX project ought to have a page for Apple users explaining
> what free software is and isn't, who creates it and why they create it,
> and a brief explanation of the fact that Mac users can always buy their
> solutions if free software doesn't float their boat.

I am a Mac user - I love LyX - I report bugs (and sometimes bug others on
the list with questions) - so please don't say "Apple users". I am sure
there are even more windows users who have unrealistic expectations -
and probably even some Linux users.

So - yes - a page explaining the principle of free software, how it
works, who works on it (a list of the core devs of Lyx would make clear
how few there are...) and how all users can (and should) contribute
would make a lot of sense. And not only for Apple users.

Overall: good suggestion!

>
> SteveT
>
> Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
> Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance
>

-- 
Rainer M. Krug
email: Rainerkrugsde
PGP: 0x0F52F982


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