On Sat, Nov 12, 2022 at 12:37 AM John R. Hogerhuis wrote:
>
> Cover will be a picture of me with lockdown beard and a Model 100 strapped
> on the back of my 286cc motorcycle. Where is he going? Nowhere exceedingly
> fast, but he's wringing it out for everything it's worth!
>
>
I love that
Well if there is that much interest I will give it a try. I know some stuff
but like I said it will be more of a research project but you all will be
leaner upon, there is the list archive for detailed discussions I know we
all have had, and probably other groups are around with serious Dartmouth
> Cover will be a picture of me with lockdown beard and a Model 100 strapped on
> the back of my 286cc motorcycle. Where is he going? Nowhere exceedingly fast
I'll admit my primary interest in this notional book -- a high interest, I
should add -- is in its content, the bike and beard will
On 12/11/22 18:55, Brian White wrote:
I just can't get over some of that stuff from Bing about "we like quality
sites..."
Plus the usual support mantra of "you did something wrong, we're not telling
you what it
is", him doing absolutely nothing to his website, then presto, it suddenly
On Sat, Nov 12, 2022 at 12:27 AM B 9 wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 11, 2022 at 4:28 PM John R. Hogerhuis
> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 11, 2022 at 4:00 PM B 9 wrote:
>>
>>> I wonder when the last book for Model T tinkerers was published? So much
>>> new knowledge has been found since then.
>>> The best
Another problem is probably lack of links to bitchin100.
I need more friends...
-- John.
>
I just can't get over some of that stuff from Bing about "we like quality
sites..."
who the what the ever loving F , where do you even begin with that
bkw
On Sat, Nov 12, 2022, 3:20 AM Brian White wrote:
> wow, that article and the others linked from there are quite enlightening.
>
> I hate
On Fri, Nov 11, 2022 at 4:28 PM John R. Hogerhuis wrote:
>
> On Fri, Nov 11, 2022 at 4:00 PM B 9 wrote:
>
>> I wonder when the last book for Model T tinkerers was published? So much
>> new knowledge has been found since then.
>> The best books I've seen are
>>
>
> Inside The Model 100
wow, that article and the others linked from there are quite enlightening.
I hate to help create a monoculture and single supplier and overlord, but
it looks like Bing and all of it's resellers should just not be used.
That really sucks because I really hate how much power g already has.
You'd
On Fri, Nov 11, 2022 at 7:21 PM Brian K. White wrote:
> On 11/11/22 18:59, B 9 wrote:
> > On a tangent: I need to work on my searching skills. It occurred to me a
> > while ago that the Tandy 200 schematic looked like the RTS/CTS lines
> > were fully wired, but when I searched for things like
On 11/11/22 18:59, B 9 wrote:
On a tangent: I need to work on my searching skills. It occurred to me a
while ago that the Tandy 200 schematic looked like the RTS/CTS lines
were fully wired, but when I searched for things like "model 100 serial
port rts cts", I never saw that page... Oh! Wait.
On Fri, Nov 11, 2022 at 4:00 PM B 9 wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 11, 2022 at 11:12 AM John R. Hogerhuis
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> I think you probably are the discoverer of that, even if the Model T was
> over twenty years old when you started. I don't believe hobbyists had easy
> access to datasheets in the
On Fri, Nov 11, 2022 at 11:12 AM John R. Hogerhuis wrote:
>
> So, it's not only been done, but you can poke the baud rate higher than
> 19,200?
>
> Yes, as far as I know I was the first one to do anything with higher baud
> rates. But I didn't come to the Model 100 scene until about 2004, I
On Thu, Nov 10, 2022 at 11:15 PM B 9 wrote:
> Oh! The more I learn, the more I find there is to learn. I like that no
> matter what mountain I climb, there's always Guru Hogerhuis already at the
> top, smiling and pointing the way forward.
>
> So, it's not only been done, but you can poke the
76800 is possible with custom software.
38400 is possible while still using the internal rom routines.
Iirc.
On Friday, November 11, 2022, B 9 wrote:
> Oh! The more I learn, the more I find there is to learn. I like that no
> matter what mountain I climb, there's always Guru Hogerhuis already
Oh! The more I learn, the more I find there is to learn. I like that no
matter what mountain I climb, there's always Guru Hogerhuis already at the
top, smiling and pointing the way forward.
So, it's not only been done, but you can poke the baud rate higher than
19,200? And it is stable? I didn't
" If Model T strings can hold NULLs, then maybe one could create a string
and change its pointers so it reads from any arbitrary location in memory."
Indeed... we used this fact to dump the entire RAM in binary format out the
serial port, from a BASIC program in less than 30 seconds. Faster if
On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 7:24 PM runrin wrote:
> i made another version that uses string pointers because i felt bad
> using 16 strings. the PEEKS seem to be pretty expensive though, so i
> think it's actually slower than the previous version, but the code is a
> bit clearer. using MID$ is
but thought it would be safer to
>> recommend 9600 bd in this discussion since it usually works no matter what
>> and makes very little difference in actual throughput.
>>
>> Have you ever compared actual BASIC download speed at 9600 vs. 19200bd?
>>
>> m
>&g
> Have you ever compared actual BASIC download speed at 9600 vs. 19200bd?
>
> m
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* B 9
> *To:* m...@bitchin100.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 01, 2022 3:33 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [M100] Notoriously S.L.O.W BASIC posted - help
- Original Message -
From: B 9
To: m...@bitchin100.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2022 3:33 AM
Subject: Re: [M100] Notoriously S.L.O.W BASIC posted - help speeding it up
appreciated
On Mon, Oct 31, 2022 at 12:11 AM MikeS wrote:
Reliable maximum download speeds
On Mon, Oct 31, 2022 at 12:11 AM MikeS wrote:
> Reliable maximum download speeds on the M100 without handshaking are
> around:
> BASIC: 600 bd to allow time to tokenize and store.
> TERM: 2400 because of the slow LCD scrolling.
> TEXT: 9600 since it does not display while loading.
>
That sounds
settings or do your own CR/LFs.
(Unless someone has a better idea ?)
m
- Original Message -
From: John R. Hogerhuis
To: m...@bitchin100.com
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2022 4:30 PM
Subject: Re: [M100] Notoriously S.L.O.W BASIC posted - help speeding it up
appreciated
> On Oct 31, 2022, at 1:31 PM, John R. Hogerhuis wrote:
> The other way to do that is filesystems and backup agents that give you a
> time machine feature.
My TPDD emulator of choice is pointed at a corner of my home directory. My
home directory is in a ZFS dataset. The ZFS dataset is
On Sun, Oct 30, 2022 at 8:58 PM B 9 wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 30, 2022 at 7:28 PM John R. Hogerhuis
> wrote:
>
>> You could always script it out to do a git commit after every ctrl-z
>>
>
> Sometimes, I don't know if you're joking or not... I mean, yes, that's
> brilliant and should work. But, oh
I download a
file.
m
- Original Message -
From: B 9
To: m...@bitchin100.com
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2022 9:54 PM
Subject: Re: [M100] Notoriously S.L.O.W BASIC posted - help speeding it up
appreciated
That sounds like a nice workflow. This ought to be in a FAQ of tips
nn
To: m100@lists.bitchin100.com
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2022 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: [M100] Notoriously S.L.O.W BASIC posted - help speeding
it up appreciated
Hi Mike,
I'm curious about the COM stuff. In a later note you said:
It's a
I added a couple of options:
H: Hexadecimal addresses
D: Decimal addresses
L: List on LCD
C: List to COM port (for scrolling, saving, printing etc.)
Timings (seconds for 50 lines):
HL: 39 (As the previous version)
DL: 36
HC: 19
DC: 17
One last minute addition: the variable W in line 160 is
gt; or
>>> 1. F2 from BASIC
>>> 2. Start sending a file (how?) from the Mac
>>> 3. Celebration
>>>
>>> Just curious!
>>>
>>> Will
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/28/22 12:30 PM, MikeS wrote:
>>>
>>>
On Sun, Oct 30, 2022 at 7:28 PM John R. Hogerhuis wrote:
> You could always script it out to do a git commit after every ctrl-z
>
Sometimes, I don't know if you're joking or not... I mean, yes, that's
brilliant and should work. But, oh boy. Once again, you've got my brain
turning on completely
S.L.O.W BASIC posted - help speeding it up
appreciated
You could always script it out to do a git commit after every ctrl-z
-- John.
You could always script it out to do a git commit after every ctrl-z
-- John.
ry useful and in fact necessary if
>> you're working with .BA tokenized files or Machine language code.
>>
>> Other than my phone I'm not an Apple kind of guy, so I can't give any
>> Mac-specific hints.
>>
>> One other hint: to simplify switching from RUN to EDIT mode I've
>>
ppose there's a way to do that for TEXT?
>
> Back in the day IIRC the DVI and the M100 were both around $800; probably
> still have the receipts somewhere; don't know what that'd be today..
>
> And yes, the Model T and NEC BASICs are remarkably versatile, especially
> considering
My head hurts ;-)
Oddly enough, explicitly typing variables (e.g. A%) actually slows things
down a bit.
And yes, the intermediate values can be >32767 as long as the result is a
legal integer.
m
On Sat, Oct 29, 2022 at 10:20 PM Eric LK wrote:
> I wrote:
> >FWIW, I also tried "caching" the
I wrote:
>FWIW, I also tried "caching" the result of "PEEK(P+1)" but again,
>it didn't change the result (in all 3 implementations, 1000
>iterations took 14 seconds, so those modifications aren't really
>interesting, except for the brain picking exercise ;o)).
Well, I managed to (almost) half
simplify switching from RUN to EDIT mode I've programmed
'F6,"Edit"+chr$(13)'
Not too verbose, I hope...
m
- Original Message -
From: Will Senn
To: m100@lists.bitchin100.com
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2022 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: [M100] Notoriously S.L.O.W BASIC posted
rsatile,
especially considering the size constraints.
Definitely unique and, I don't know, friendly in a way...
m
- Original Message -
*From:* B 9 <mailto:hacke...@gmail.com>
*To:* m...@bitchin100.com
*Sent:* Friday, October 28, 2022 12:39 AM
*Subject:* Re: [M100] Notori
Original Message -
*From:* Will Senn <mailto:will.s...@gmail.com>
*To:* m100@lists.bitchin100.com
*Sent:* Friday, October 28, 2022 1:54 PM
*Subject:* Re: [M100] Notoriously S.L.O.W BASIC posted - help
speeding it up appreciated
Oh yes, am I ever. A bit overwhelm
As to type sigils on variables... Don't know how much it changes ram use or
execution time. Some! Maybe look at the tokenized output difference for the
space difference.
As to the multiplication versus the AND... you'd have to test. Interesting.
I will try it.
Speaking of testing, I'm wondering
"John R. Hogerhuis" wrote:
> 10 DEFINTP:DEFSTRH
> 20 H=CHR$(201)
> 30 P=VARPTR(H)+1
> 1000 P=PEEK(P)+256%*(PEEK(P+1)+256%*(PEEK(P+1)>127))
> 1010 PRINTP
Very nice. That seems a little more optimized than the solution I used
for my "direct file access from RAM" implementation :o)
You could skip
problem first time around.
Enjoying the thread... wonder if Will's getting anything out of it ;-)
m
- Original Message -
From: B 9
To: m...@bitchin100.com
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2022 11:38 PM
Subject: Re: [M100] Notoriously S.L.O.W BASIC posted - help
more sense to input
in decimal.
I think I'll leave the Forth version for another day ;-)
m
- Original Message -
From: John R. Hogerhuis
To: m...@bitchin100.com
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2022 5:52 PM
Subject: Re: [M100] Notoriously S.L.O.W BASIC posted - help speeding it up
On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 6:04 PM Mike Stein wrote:
> I don't see where it makes much difference In general in BASIC but in this
> case there is a justification for MSB first ;-)
> It goes from MSB to LSB because the same routine does 4 or 2 digits
> depending on where you enter; line 5 gives the
gmail.com>
*To:* m...@bitchin100.com
*Sent:* Thursday, October 27, 2022 11:38 PM
*Subject:* Re: [M100] Notoriously S.L.O.W BASIC posted - help
speeding it up appreciated
On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 3:04 PM John R. Hogerhuis
wrote:
With hex it's a question though since MOD 16
g the size constraints.
Definitely unique and, I don't know, friendly in a way...
m
- Original Message -
From: B 9
To: m...@bitchin100.com
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2022 12:39 AM
Subject: Re: [M100] Notoriously S.L.O.W BASIC posted - help speeding it up
appreciated
On Thu, Oc
wonder if Will's getting anything out of it ;-)
m
- Original Message -
From: B 9
To: m...@bitchin100.com
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2022 11:38 PM
Subject: Re: [M100] Notoriously S.L.O.W BASIC posted - help speeding it up
appreciated
On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 3:04 PM
On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 8:51 AM MikeS wrote:
> It might not be so bad on a 200 but my main annoyance is having to
> scroll up and down on the M100's 8 line screen; as a matter of fact the
> larger screen was the main reason I bought a DVI when they came out.
>
When they came out? I wonder if
> On Oct 27, 2022, at 8:39 PM, B 9 wrote:
> 200 REM Print 2 hexits
In all my years, this is the first time I have seen the term "hexit." From the
code it's apparently another way of describing a hex representation of a
nibble! Quite a good couple of days for learning from the list, that's
P.S. I forgot to put in `18 TS$=TIME$`, so the timing is inaccurate. Once I
got that corrected it does seem like PEEKing at the bytes in the integer is
faster than dividing by 4096.
On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 8:38 PM B 9 wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 3:04 PM John R. Hogerhuis
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 3:04 PM John R. Hogerhuis wrote:
>
> With hex it's a question though since MOD 16 can be done with AND 15 which
> is probably faster than a general integer 16 modulus. There's no bitshift
> operator so you still need a integer divide by 16%. Who knows how efficient
> an
I don't see where it makes much difference In general in BASIC but in this
case there is a justification for MSB first ;-)
It goes from MSB to LSB because the same routine does 4 or 2 digits
depending on where you enter; line 5 gives the 4 digit address and it falls
through to line 7 which also
On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 1:10 PM MikeS wrote:
> More good tips, thanks. Yes, I have to look at defining the various types,
> especially the ones that can go above 32768.
>
> Concatenation with '+' is a habit from other languages I've worked with;
> as a matter of fact in most cases the M100 lets
A$" to "B$ or a"plus"b
Interesting discussion (at least for some of us ;-) )
m
- Original Message -
From: John R. Hogerhuis
To: m...@bitchin100.com
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2022 3:39 PM
Subject: Re: [M100] Notoriously S.L.O.W BASIC posted - help speedin
On Thu, Oct 27, 2022, 12:14 PM MikeS wrote:
> Good tips.
>
> DEFINT a-z reduced the time to print 50 lines from 61 seconds to 51
>
> I'd also forgotten about integer division; that reduced it another 4
> seconds to 47.
>
> Any more ideas?
>
> m
>
Seems like you can declare constants in
AM
Subject: Re: [M100] Notoriously S.L.O.W BASIC posted - help speeding it up
appreciated
You can get a small (~15%) speedup just by doing this:
0 DEFINT A-D, L, X, Y
—b9
On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 8:46 PM MikeS wrote:
Oops; looks like I forgot to attach my version last night
XT
250 PRINTB$+" to "+TIME$:END
Constructive criticism welcome.
m
- Original Message -
From: "runrin"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2022 10:24 PM
Subject: Re: [M100] Notoriously S.L.O.W BASIC posted - help speeding it up
appreciated
&g
to being close to the beginning.
Further research is indicated ;-)
m
- Original Message -
From: B 9
To: m...@bitchin100.com
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2022 1:16 AM
Subject: Re: [M100] Notoriously S.L.O.W BASIC posted - help speeding it up
appreciated
You can get a small (~15
:END
>
> Constructive criticism welcome.
>
> m
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "runrin"
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2022 10:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [M100] Notoriously S.L.O.W BASIC posted - help speeding it up
> appreciated
>
>
> >
:END
>
> Constructive criticism welcome.
>
> m
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "runrin"
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2022 10:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [M100] Notoriously S.L.O.W BASIC posted - help speeding it up
> appreciated
>
>
> >
50 PRINTB$+" to "+TIME$:END
Constructive criticism welcome.
m
- Original Message -----
From: "runrin"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2022 10:24 PM
Subject: Re: [M100] Notoriously S.L.O.W BASIC posted - help speeding it up
appreciated
> this seemed fun so i gave
this seemed fun so i gave it a quick try. here's what i came up with.
it's a shame you can't do bitshift operations because i suspect
``((V AND 240) >> 4)'' would be faster than using integer division.
i'm a total neophyte when it comes to basic so i don't think this code
is actually very fast.
On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 4:33 PM Eric LK wrote:
> "John R. Hogerhuis" wrote:
> > ?MID$(H$,A/16+1,1);MID$(H$,AMOD16+1,1);" ";
>
> It would be slightly faster with:
> ?MID$(H$,A\16+1,1);MID$(H$,(AAND15)+1,1);" ";
>
> The biggest difference is the integer division, which to be honest
> surprised
On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 4:33 PM Eric LK wrote:
> "John R. Hogerhuis" wrote:
> > ?MID$(H$,A/16+1,1);MID$(H$,AMOD16+1,1);" ";
>
> It would be slightly faster with:
> ?MID$(H$,A\16+1,1);MID$(H$,(AAND15)+1,1);" ";
>
> 1 iterations takes 5:43 vs 7:23 with your version (I tested on
> VirtualT, so
"John R. Hogerhuis" wrote:
> ?MID$(H$,A/16+1,1);MID$(H$,AMOD16+1,1);" ";
It would be slightly faster with:
?MID$(H$,A\16+1,1);MID$(H$,(AAND15)+1,1);" ";
1 iterations takes 5:43 vs 7:23 with your version (I tested on
VirtualT, so it may not be 100% accurate but that should be a good
Thanks Joshua! It does seem minimal.
Hopefully it works too :-) My first attempt had a 0 versus 1 string index
based issue. So 255 printed as EE instead of FF.
But I caught that one in testing on CloudT.
For those who want to try the code above, you can go to
https://bitchin100.com/CloudT
> On Oct 26, 2022, at 12:27 PM, John R. Hogerhuis wrote:
>
> 110 PRINT@B,MID$(H$,A/16+1,1);MID$(H$,AMOD16+1,1);" ";
John, I just want to compliment you on an elegant idiom here.
Here's roughly how I would dump hex bytes in BASIC. I know you're doing
other stuff but I will just pick off one part of the job that could be
optimized.
Line 110 is the key... no IFs or anything special to get padding. And I
wouldn't make it a subroutine per se. Just stick that
To: m...@bitchin100.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2022 10:41 AM
Subject: Re: [M100] Notoriously S.L.O.W BASIC posted - help speeding it up
appreciated
Will,
Here is a bit of compact code I wrote to convert bases given a number. There
may be some simplifications and or speed ups
Will,
Here is a bit of compact code I wrote to convert bases given a number.
There may be some simplifications and or speed ups here.
The one line version
1 V$="
"+CHR$(13)+CHR$(8)+"0123456789ABCDEF":E=INSTR(V$,INKEY$):ONEGOTO1:F=(F-(E=2))MOD3:G=9*F+2-F^2:C=-C*(E=2)-(C*G+E-4)*(E>3ANDE:BASE
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