subject:"Apple's headphone scam"

Agreed, back in my previous career when we used to do a final mix we used to 
use Minimus 7 cheap garbage speakers from Radio Shack.  Even though we had 
30,000 dollar (in 1990 dollars) B speakers we didn’t use them because 99% of 
the target audience used garbage to listen to music.  The audiophile community 
is pretty small and I’m afraid getting smaller.


> On Jan 20, 2016, at 2:33 PM, Ricardo Walker <rwalker...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> True,
> 
> but for the majority of consumers, bluetooth is good enough. High end audio 
> is just wasted on many people.
> 
> JMo.
>> On Jan 20, 2016, at 12:58 PM, Anders Holmberg <and...@pipkrokodil.se> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>> Possibly.
>> But bluetooth is not as good quality as airplay if you’re not using the atpx 
>> protocol which apple doesn’t do.
>> /A
>>> 19 jan. 2016 kl. 00:45 skrev Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>>> <clgillan...@gmail.com>:
>>> 
>>> I'm wonderring if that may be because there are so many bluetooth model 
>>> devices out there, that maybe Apple just didn't see the point.
>>> 
>>> Chris.
>>> 
>>> - Original Message - From: "Anders Holmberg" <and...@pipkrokodil.se>
>>> To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>>> Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 5:12 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Apple's headphone scam
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> One thing i am concerned about is why there’s not any airplay headphones 
>>> around yet?
>>> /A
>>>> On 18 Jan 2016, at 15:37, Sabahattin Gucukoglu <listse...@me.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I’m afraid I just can’t quite bring myself to be sufficiently moved.  I 
>>>> don’t like planned obsolescence or proprietary standards either, but I’m 
>>>> also in the market for a new pair of travel headphones, and I actually 
>>>> would love a digital path between my iPhone and my headset.  I was not 
>>>> among those poor souls hurt by the 30-pin to Lightning transition, because 
>>>> I was not quite so silly as to buy expensive equipment with that 
>>>> connector.  And, yes, electronic waste is a terrible, terrible thing, but 
>>>> I doubt Apple will fail to provide a transition for users of the 3.5-mm 
>>>> plug.  I know it’s painful, but we do need to move forward.
>>>> 
>>>> JMO.
>>>> 
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Re: Apple's headphone scam

A consumer wouldn’t know the difference between a bluetooth or a toothbrush.:)  
The fact is most consumers know what bluetooth does roughly and they know they 
might use it but they have no idea the differences in the protocols.  There are 
exceptions of course but the vast majority walk in to best buy and buy the 
cheapest model or the one they claim to be the best model but it’s all based on 
product placement and advertising, not real facts.

There are consumers who will drill down and learn more they just aren’t the 
majority.

> On Jan 20, 2016, at 2:38 PM, Karen Lewellen <klewel...@shellworld.net> wrote:
> 
> I am wondering two things then.
> First, what makes this a scam exactly?  Is Apple planning to deceive people  
> with this effort?
> Second, based on the below, who are "most consumers," exactly?  if people do 
> not have much choice with the bluetooth quality, then how does that mean 
> better quality might be a waste?  A consumer  may be feeling powerless to get 
> anything better, which does not mean they might not want something better.
> Just my thoughts,
> Kare
> 
> 
> On Wed, 20 Jan 2016, Ricardo Walker wrote:
> 
>> True,
>> 
>> but for the majority of consumers, bluetooth is good enough. High end audio 
>> is just wasted on many people.
>> 
>> JMo.
>>> On Jan 20, 2016, at 12:58 PM, Anders Holmberg <and...@pipkrokodil.se> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> Possibly.
>>> But bluetooth is not as good quality as airplay if you’re not using the 
>>> atpx protocol which apple doesn’t do.
>>> /A
>>>> 19 jan. 2016 kl. 00:45 skrev Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>>>> <clgillan...@gmail.com>:
>>>> 
>>>> I'm wonderring if that may be because there are so many bluetooth model 
>>>> devices out there, that maybe Apple just didn't see the point.
>>>> 
>>>> Chris.
>>>> 
>>>> - Original Message - From: "Anders Holmberg" 
>>>> <and...@pipkrokodil.se>
>>>> To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>>>> Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 5:12 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: Apple's headphone scam
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Hi!
>>>> One thing i am concerned about is why there’s not any airplay headphones 
>>>> around yet?
>>>> /A
>>>>> On 18 Jan 2016, at 15:37, Sabahattin Gucukoglu <listse...@me.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I’m afraid I just can’t quite bring myself to be sufficiently moved.  I 
>>>>> don’t like planned obsolescence or proprietary standards either, but I’m 
>>>>> also in the market for a new pair of travel headphones, and I actually 
>>>>> would love a digital path between my iPhone and my headset.  I was not 
>>>>> among those poor souls hurt by the 30-pin to Lightning transition, 
>>>>> because I was not quite so silly as to buy expensive equipment with that 
>>>>> connector.  And, yes, electronic waste is a terrible, terrible thing, but 
>>>>> I doubt Apple will fail to provide a transition for users of the 3.5-mm 
>>>>> plug.  I know it’s painful, but we do need to move forward.
>>>>> 
>>>>> JMO.
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
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>>>>> Visionaries list.
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>>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
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Re: Apple's headphone scam

2016-01-20 Thread E.T.


Karen,
   Some do not like change, its scary to them. Calling it a scam is a 
reflection of that fear. Without change, where would we be now?


   "Most consumers" is not really useful except to the data collectors, 
its merely a loosely worded phrase to push points across. More 
meaningful would be one's own personal experiences with something.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 1/20/2016 11:42 AM, Scott Granados wrote:

A consumer wouldn’t know the difference between a bluetooth or a toothbrush.:)  
The fact is most consumers know what bluetooth does roughly and they know they 
might use it but they have no idea the differences in the protocols.  There are 
exceptions of course but the vast majority walk in to best buy and buy the 
cheapest model or the one they claim to be the best model but it’s all based on 
product placement and advertising, not real facts.

There are consumers who will drill down and learn more they just aren’t the 
majority.


On Jan 20, 2016, at 2:38 PM, Karen Lewellen <klewel...@shellworld.net> wrote:

I am wondering two things then.
First, what makes this a scam exactly?  Is Apple planning to deceive people  
with this effort?
Second, based on the below, who are "most consumers," exactly?  if people do 
not have much choice with the bluetooth quality, then how does that mean better quality 
might be a waste?  A consumer  may be feeling powerless to get anything better, which 
does not mean they might not want something better.
Just my thoughts,
Kare


On Wed, 20 Jan 2016, Ricardo Walker wrote:


True,

but for the majority of consumers, bluetooth is good enough. High end audio is 
just wasted on many people.

JMo.

On Jan 20, 2016, at 12:58 PM, Anders Holmberg <and...@pipkrokodil.se> wrote:

Hi!
Possibly.
But bluetooth is not as good quality as airplay if you’re not using the atpx 
protocol which apple doesn’t do.
/A

19 jan. 2016 kl. 00:45 skrev Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgillan...@gmail.com>:

I'm wonderring if that may be because there are so many bluetooth model devices 
out there, that maybe Apple just didn't see the point.

Chris.

- Original Message - From: "Anders Holmberg" <and...@pipkrokodil.se>
To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 5:12 PM
Subject: Re: Apple's headphone scam


Hi!
One thing i am concerned about is why there’s not any airplay headphones around 
yet?
/A

On 18 Jan 2016, at 15:37, Sabahattin Gucukoglu <listse...@me.com> wrote:

I’m afraid I just can’t quite bring myself to be sufficiently moved.  I don’t 
like planned obsolescence or proprietary standards either, but I’m also in the 
market for a new pair of travel headphones, and I actually would love a digital 
path between my iPhone and my headset.  I was not among those poor souls hurt 
by the 30-pin to Lightning transition, because I was not quite so silly as to 
buy expensive equipment with that connector.  And, yes, electronic waste is a 
terrible, terrible thing, but I doubt Apple will fail to provide a transition 
for users of the 3.5-mm plug.  I know it’s painful, but we do need to move 
forward.

JMO.

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Re: Apple's headphone scam

2016-01-20 Thread Anders Holmberg

Hi!
Also true.
I am not that high end.
/A
> 20 jan. 2016 kl. 20:33 skrev Ricardo Walker <rwalker...@gmail.com>:
> 
> True,
> 
> but for the majority of consumers, bluetooth is good enough. High end audio 
> is just wasted on many people.
> 
> JMo.
>> On Jan 20, 2016, at 12:58 PM, Anders Holmberg <and...@pipkrokodil.se> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>> Possibly.
>> But bluetooth is not as good quality as airplay if you’re not using the atpx 
>> protocol which apple doesn’t do.
>> /A
>>> 19 jan. 2016 kl. 00:45 skrev Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>>> <clgillan...@gmail.com>:
>>> 
>>> I'm wonderring if that may be because there are so many bluetooth model 
>>> devices out there, that maybe Apple just didn't see the point.
>>> 
>>> Chris.
>>> 
>>> - Original Message - From: "Anders Holmberg" <and...@pipkrokodil.se>
>>> To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>>> Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 5:12 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Apple's headphone scam
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> One thing i am concerned about is why there’s not any airplay headphones 
>>> around yet?
>>> /A
>>>> On 18 Jan 2016, at 15:37, Sabahattin Gucukoglu <listse...@me.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I’m afraid I just can’t quite bring myself to be sufficiently moved.  I 
>>>> don’t like planned obsolescence or proprietary standards either, but I’m 
>>>> also in the market for a new pair of travel headphones, and I actually 
>>>> would love a digital path between my iPhone and my headset.  I was not 
>>>> among those poor souls hurt by the 30-pin to Lightning transition, because 
>>>> I was not quite so silly as to buy expensive equipment with that 
>>>> connector.  And, yes, electronic waste is a terrible, terrible thing, but 
>>>> I doubt Apple will fail to provide a transition for users of the 3.5-mm 
>>>> plug.  I know it’s painful, but we do need to move forward.
>>>> 
>>>> JMO.
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>> 
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>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
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Re: Apple's headphone scam

2016-01-20 Thread Sabahattin Gucukoglu

Red Book CDs (i.e., the kind you play in your CD player) are lossless PCM (i.e. 
mostly like Wav or AIFF) with a 16-bit sample, 44100 samples per second, two 
channels.  That means it takes about 10.1 MB per minute of audio.  And yes, an 
hour of CD audio is about 640 MB.  no problem for today’s handsome hard disks, 
or even SSDs.  We don’t need encoders any more.  And, lossless encoders are 
available that can reliably compress the audio without any lossy encoding.  The 
sizes aren’t quite as good (40%, best case) but it’s still an improvement and 
the compromise is still worth making if you consider that those rips will be 
with you forever.

Summary: just use lossless.  It’s better. :)

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Re: Apple's headphone scam

2016-01-20 Thread Brent Harding

I also thought that the reason they made the 6S thicker than the 6 was 
because they realized they finally hit the point where thinner meant 
bennding with the 6 plus. If the rumors of higher resolution audio are true, 
they are probably going to deliver it through lightning or USB C, and not 
through making that 3.5 inch jack do digital as well as analog.


- Original Message - 
From: "Terje Strømberg" <terjestrmb...@gmail.com>

To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Cc: "Terje Strømberg" <terjestrmb...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 2:05 PM
Subject: Re: Apple's headphone scam


An iPhone repair engineer confirmed that the 3.5mm audio output is quite 
space-requiring. So, the space saving theory have good odds.


Take care

20. jan. 2016 kl. 12:44 skrev Scott Granados <sc...@qualityip.net>:

Personally, I think the whole change comes down to space savings.  They may 
save money but the big  thing they want is more realestate to put components 
in the phone and or the ability to make it thinner.  I doubt the human ear 
gains much by having the signal handed to the headphones digitally or over 
an analog path.  That few feet of cable isn’t going to make that much 
difference.


I don’t think it’s a pure money grab though, I could be wrong but I don’t 
get that feeling.



On Jan 20, 2016, at 6:06 AM, Bill Gallik <wfgal...@icloud.com> wrote:

I have to wonder if Apple is really planning on changing the headphone 
jack.  I also wonder if the eventual iPhone 7 will come complete with the 
necessary audio jack adapter included?


But the bottom line to me is  this, if Apple does incorporate an 
alternative connection to the current jack do people truly believe it is 
only to pry additional dollars from the pockets of a remarkably loyal 
customer base?  Or, as I personally believe to be the case, to provide a 
technically superior feature?


I have no reason nor evidence to believe that Apple is foolish enough to 
make a technical alteration solely for the purpose of forcing loyal 
customers to be required to part with additional monies.  For my money, if 
Apple alters the headphone jack I audio believe they are doing to offer an 
improved experience.  I recall when the 35 MM jack was introduced several 
decades ago, the proponents of the formerly preponderant quarter inch jack 
likewise protested (although not quite so loudly).  For my money, I’ll 
patiently wait to see what Apple has indeed done and pass judgment after 
experiencing what most likely be an improvement.



Bill & Leader Dog Holland

wfgal...@icloud.com




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Re: Apple's headphone scam

2016-01-20 Thread Sabahattin Gucukoglu

I seem to be very lucky in not being among those frequently beset by AirPlay 
dropouts, but in any case it and Kleer are worthwhile investments for me.  I 
need lossless quality.  Maybe not higher definition, but certainly lossless.  
Encoders are the problem.  Really.  If we could just get decent 
close-to-original-masters on CD instead of the compressed crap we get nowadays, 
things could be so much better.

And as for high-def, I’m generally in the “More is better” camp.  We shall have 
to see, but just like religions of all kinds, I’d prefer not to discount it 
outright.

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Re: Apple's headphone scam

2016-01-20 Thread Devin Prater

I don't think a 700MB regular CD can hold an album of lossless audio, can it? 
With each song being a good 50MB or so?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 20, 2016, at 5:01 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> I seem to be very lucky in not being among those frequently beset by AirPlay 
> dropouts, but in any case it and Kleer are worthwhile investments for me.  I 
> need lossless quality.  Maybe not higher definition, but certainly lossless.  
> Encoders are the problem.  Really.  If we could just get decent 
> close-to-original-masters on CD instead of the compressed crap we get 
> nowadays, things could be so much better.
> 
> And as for high-def, I’m generally in the “More is better” camp.  We shall 
> have to see, but just like religions of all kinds, I’d prefer not to discount 
> it outright.
> 
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Re: Apple's headphone scam

2016-01-20 Thread Brent Harding

One time when Bluetooth headphones get to be an issue is when Apple decides 
that phone call quality is what you're getting music at. I thought Apple 
even used its own bluetooth thing that the headset companies have to adapt 
to, just like the AptX stuff is probably not the standard kind either. From 
what I heard, Apple may have to use the Bluetooth hardware from the AptX 
company to add that feature if they wanted to, or possibly pay licensing 
fees beyond what they want to.


- Original Message - 
From: "Scott Granados" <sc...@qualityip.net>

To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 1:35 PM
Subject: Re: Apple's headphone scam


Agreed, back in my previous career when we used to do a final mix we used to 
use Minimus 7 cheap garbage speakers from Radio Shack.  Even though we had 
30,000 dollar (in 1990 dollars) B speakers we didn’t use them because 99% 
of the target audience used garbage to listen to music.  The audiophile 
community is pretty small and I’m afraid getting smaller.




On Jan 20, 2016, at 2:33 PM, Ricardo Walker <rwalker...@gmail.com> wrote:

True,

but for the majority of consumers, bluetooth is good enough. High end 
audio is just wasted on many people.


JMo.
On Jan 20, 2016, at 12:58 PM, Anders Holmberg <and...@pipkrokodil.se> 
wrote:


Hi!
Possibly.
But bluetooth is not as good quality as airplay if you’re not using the 
atpx protocol which apple doesn’t do.

/A
19 jan. 2016 kl. 00:45 skrev Christopher-Mark Gilland 
<clgillan...@gmail.com>:


I'm wonderring if that may be because there are so many bluetooth model 
devices out there, that maybe Apple just didn't see the point.


Chris.

- Original Message - From: "Anders Holmberg" 
<and...@pipkrokodil.se>

To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 5:12 PM
Subject: Re: Apple's headphone scam


Hi!
One thing i am concerned about is why there’s not any airplay headphones 
around yet?

/A
On 18 Jan 2016, at 15:37, Sabahattin Gucukoglu <listse...@me.com> 
wrote:


I’m afraid I just can’t quite bring myself to be sufficiently moved.  I 
don’t like planned obsolescence or proprietary standards either, but I’m 
also in the market for a new pair of travel headphones, and I actually 
would love a digital path between my iPhone and my headset.  I was not 
among those poor souls hurt by the 30-pin to Lightning transition, 
because I was not quite so silly as to buy expensive equipment with 
that connector.  And, yes, electronic waste is a terrible, terrible 
thing, but I doubt Apple will fail to provide a transition for users of 
the 3.5-mm plug.  I know it’s painful, but we do need to move forward.


JMO.

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Re: Apple's headphone scam

2016-01-20 Thread 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries

To some extent it doesn't matter a whole lot. Even though my main stereo 
has nice JBL monitor speakers, most of the time I'm not on the center of 
the couch right between them getting the full stereo illusion of space. 
More often I'm elsewhere in the room or in another room where they end 
up sounding not a whole lot different than the iHome I have upstairs. 
Like information snacking, most people don't want the full article and 
most people don't just sit there and listen intently to music. More 
often it's just background ambiance to the real thing you're doing at 
the time. For those types of applications bluetooth and small cheap 
speakers work just fine.


CB

On 1/20/16 2:42 PM, Scott Granados wrote:

A consumer wouldn’t know the difference between a bluetooth or a toothbrush.:)  
The fact is most consumers know what bluetooth does roughly and they know they 
might use it but they have no idea the differences in the protocols.  There are 
exceptions of course but the vast majority walk in to best buy and buy the 
cheapest model or the one they claim to be the best model but it’s all based on 
product placement and advertising, not real facts.

There are consumers who will drill down and learn more they just aren’t the 
majority.


On Jan 20, 2016, at 2:38 PM, Karen Lewellen <klewel...@shellworld.net> wrote:

I am wondering two things then.
First, what makes this a scam exactly?  Is Apple planning to deceive people  
with this effort?
Second, based on the below, who are "most consumers," exactly?  if people do 
not have much choice with the bluetooth quality, then how does that mean better quality 
might be a waste?  A consumer  may be feeling powerless to get anything better, which 
does not mean they might not want something better.
Just my thoughts,
Kare


On Wed, 20 Jan 2016, Ricardo Walker wrote:


True,

but for the majority of consumers, bluetooth is good enough. High end audio is 
just wasted on many people.

JMo.

On Jan 20, 2016, at 12:58 PM, Anders Holmberg <and...@pipkrokodil.se> wrote:

Hi!
Possibly.
But bluetooth is not as good quality as airplay if you’re not using the atpx 
protocol which apple doesn’t do.
/A

19 jan. 2016 kl. 00:45 skrev Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgillan...@gmail.com>:

I'm wonderring if that may be because there are so many bluetooth model devices 
out there, that maybe Apple just didn't see the point.

Chris.

- Original Message - From: "Anders Holmberg" <and...@pipkrokodil.se>
To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 5:12 PM
Subject: Re: Apple's headphone scam


Hi!
One thing i am concerned about is why there’s not any airplay headphones around 
yet?
/A

On 18 Jan 2016, at 15:37, Sabahattin Gucukoglu <listse...@me.com> wrote:

I’m afraid I just can’t quite bring myself to be sufficiently moved.  I don’t 
like planned obsolescence or proprietary standards either, but I’m also in the 
market for a new pair of travel headphones, and I actually would love a digital 
path between my iPhone and my headset.  I was not among those poor souls hurt 
by the 30-pin to Lightning transition, because I was not quite so silly as to 
buy expensive equipment with that connector.  And, yes, electronic waste is a 
terrible, terrible thing, but I doubt Apple will fail to provide a transition 
for users of the 3.5-mm plug.  I know it’s painful, but we do need to move 
forward.

JMO.

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Re: Apple's headphone scam

I’m personally not that invested in the 3.5MM cable.  If an adapter exists I’m 
happy.  Either way I don’t care if it’s included or not, frankly I’d rather it 
was thin than had a 3.5MM jack.

But my answer changes if there’s no reasonable adapter.

> On Jan 20, 2016, at 2:52 PM, Terje Strømberg  wrote:
> 
> It is best to let apple know that there is many customers out there that like 
> to use the 3.5mm headphone connector now at this time,  not later, when the 
> 3.5mm is gone on the next model. Ehen it is gone it is gone. To late.
> 
> Take care
> 
> 20. jan. 2016 kl. 12:06 skrev Bill Gallik :
> 
> I have to wonder if Apple is really planning on changing the headphone jack.  
> I also wonder if the eventual iPhone 7 will come complete with the necessary 
> audio jack adapter included?
> 
> But the bottom line to me is  this, if Apple does incorporate an alternative 
> connection to the current jack do people truly believe it is only to pry 
> additional dollars from the pockets of a remarkably loyal customer base?  Or, 
> as I personally believe to be the case, to provide a technically superior 
> feature?
> 
> I have no reason nor evidence to believe that Apple is foolish enough to make 
> a technical alteration solely for the purpose of forcing loyal customers to 
> be required to part with additional monies.  For my money, if Apple alters 
> the headphone jack I audio believe they are doing to offer an improved 
> experience.  I recall when the 35 MM jack was introduced several decades ago, 
> the proponents of the formerly preponderant quarter inch jack likewise 
> protested (although not quite so loudly).  For my money, I’ll patiently wait 
> to see what Apple has indeed done and pass judgment after experiencing what 
> most likely be an improvement.
> 
> 
> Bill & Leader Dog Holland
> 
> wfgal...@icloud.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Apple's headphone scam

2016-01-20 Thread Devin Prater

Look y'all. Apple knows what they're doing here. Music, and sound, have always 
been one thing they're good at. If Apple removes the current headphone jack and 
replaced them with lightning headphones, the new EarPods might be able to do 
more things, like have sensors in them or do things that consumers never even 
knew could be done. Come on, let your little old pair of headphones go for a 
change. Once the iPhone comes out, headphone makers will have made new versions 
for Apple's phones anyways. And let's be real. Who all carries around two types 
of phones now? Who doesn't just carry around their iPhone and either a keyboard 
or a braille display, or if you're least fortunate, a notetaker? Even if you do 
have a notetaker, you can stand to use it with braille. 
Just wait and see how marvelous the future is.
Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 20, 2016, at 1:42 PM, Scott Granados <sc...@qualityip.net> wrote:
> 
> A consumer wouldn’t know the difference between a bluetooth or a 
> toothbrush.:)  The fact is most consumers know what bluetooth does roughly 
> and they know they might use it but they have no idea the differences in the 
> protocols.  There are exceptions of course but the vast majority walk in to 
> best buy and buy the cheapest model or the one they claim to be the best 
> model but it’s all based on product placement and advertising, not real facts.
> 
> There are consumers who will drill down and learn more they just aren’t the 
> majority.
> 
>> On Jan 20, 2016, at 2:38 PM, Karen Lewellen <klewel...@shellworld.net> wrote:
>> 
>> I am wondering two things then.
>> First, what makes this a scam exactly?  Is Apple planning to deceive people  
>> with this effort?
>> Second, based on the below, who are "most consumers," exactly?  if people do 
>> not have much choice with the bluetooth quality, then how does that mean 
>> better quality might be a waste?  A consumer  may be feeling powerless to 
>> get anything better, which does not mean they might not want something 
>> better.
>> Just my thoughts,
>> Kare
>> 
>> 
>>> On Wed, 20 Jan 2016, Ricardo Walker wrote:
>>> 
>>> True,
>>> 
>>> but for the majority of consumers, bluetooth is good enough. High end audio 
>>> is just wasted on many people.
>>> 
>>> JMo.
>>>> On Jan 20, 2016, at 12:58 PM, Anders Holmberg <and...@pipkrokodil.se> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi!
>>>> Possibly.
>>>> But bluetooth is not as good quality as airplay if you’re not using the 
>>>> atpx protocol which apple doesn’t do.
>>>> /A
>>>>> 19 jan. 2016 kl. 00:45 skrev Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>>>>> <clgillan...@gmail.com>:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm wonderring if that may be because there are so many bluetooth model 
>>>>> devices out there, that maybe Apple just didn't see the point.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Chris.
>>>>> 
>>>>> - Original Message - From: "Anders Holmberg" 
>>>>> <and...@pipkrokodil.se>
>>>>> To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 5:12 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: Apple's headphone scam
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi!
>>>>> One thing i am concerned about is why there’s not any airplay headphones 
>>>>> around yet?
>>>>> /A
>>>>>> On 18 Jan 2016, at 15:37, Sabahattin Gucukoglu <listse...@me.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I’m afraid I just can’t quite bring myself to be sufficiently moved.  I 
>>>>>> don’t like planned obsolescence or proprietary standards either, but I’m 
>>>>>> also in the market for a new pair of travel headphones, and I actually 
>>>>>> would love a digital path between my iPhone and my headset.  I was not 
>>>>>> among those poor souls hurt by the 30-pin to Lightning transition, 
>>>>>> because I was not quite so silly as to buy expensive equipment with that 
>>>>>> connector.  And, yes, electronic waste is a terrible, terrible thing, 
>>>>>> but I doubt Apple will fail to provide a transition for users of the 
>>>>>> 3.5-mm plug.  I know it’s painful, but we do need to move forward.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> JMO.
>>>>>> 
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>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>>>>> Visionaries

Re: Apple's headphone scam

2016-01-20 Thread Sabahattin Gucukoglu

Well, you could certainly keep AIFF or Wav files, and they’d be a lot easier to 
edit, but no, I was thinking of compressed lossless encoders like FLAC and 
ALAC.  ALAC is Apple’s codec and is used by AirPlay and supported by iTunes.  
FLAC is an open format supported by most everybody else.

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Re: Apple's headphone scam

2016-01-20 Thread Devin Prater

Lossless encoders, like AIFF or something? That's the format I'm most familiar 
with, as some Creative Commons stuff comes with MP3 and AIFF versions.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 20, 2016, at 5:16 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Red Book CDs (i.e., the kind you play in your CD player) are lossless PCM 
> (i.e. mostly like Wav or AIFF) with a 16-bit sample, 44100 samples per 
> second, two channels.  That means it takes about 10.1 MB per minute of audio. 
>  And yes, an hour of CD audio is about 640 MB.  no problem for today’s 
> handsome hard disks, or even SSDs.  We don’t need encoders any more.  And, 
> lossless encoders are available that can reliably compress the audio without 
> any lossy encoding.  The sizes aren’t quite as good (40%, best case) but it’s 
> still an improvement and the compromise is still worth making if you consider 
> that those rips will be with you forever.
> 
> Summary: just use lossless.  It’s better. :)
> 
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Re: Apple's headphone scam

2016-01-20 Thread Bill Gallik

I have to wonder if Apple is really planning on changing the headphone jack.  I 
also wonder if the eventual iPhone 7 will come complete with the necessary 
audio jack adapter included?

But the bottom line to me is  this, if Apple does incorporate an alternative 
connection to the current jack do people truly believe it is only to pry 
additional dollars from the pockets of a remarkably loyal customer base?  Or, 
as I personally believe to be the case, to provide a technically superior 
feature?

I have no reason nor evidence to believe that Apple is foolish enough to make a 
technical alteration solely for the purpose of forcing loyal customers to be 
required to part with additional monies.  For my money, if Apple alters the 
headphone jack I audio believe they are doing to offer an improved experience.  
I recall when the 35 MM jack was introduced several decades ago, the proponents 
of the formerly preponderant quarter inch jack likewise protested (although not 
quite so loudly).  For my money, I’ll patiently wait to see what Apple has 
indeed done and pass judgment after experiencing what most likely be an 
improvement.


Bill & Leader Dog Holland

wfgal...@icloud.com




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Re: Apple's headphone scam

Personally, I think the whole change comes down to space savings.  They may save money but the big  thing they want is more realestate to put components in the phone and or the ability to make it thinner.  I doubt the human ear gains much by having the signal handed to the headphones digitally or over an analog path.  That few feet of cable isn’t going to make that much difference.I don’t think it’s a pure money grab though, I could be wrong but I don’t get that feeling.On Jan 20, 2016, at 6:06 AM, Bill Gallik  wrote:I have to wonder if Apple is really planning on changing the headphone jack.  I also wonder if the eventual iPhone 7 will come complete with the necessary audio jack adapter included?But the bottom line to me is  this, if Apple does incorporate an alternative connection to the current jack do people truly believe it is only to pry additional dollars from the pockets of a remarkably loyal customer base?  Or, as I personally believe to be the case, to provide a technically superior feature?I have no reason nor evidence to believe that Apple is foolish enough to make a technical alteration solely for the purpose of forcing loyal customers to be required to part with additional monies.  For my money, if Apple alters the headphone jack I audio believe they are doing to offer an improved experience.  I recall when the 35 MM jack was introduced several decades ago, the proponents of the formerly preponderant quarter inch jack likewise protested (although not quite so loudly).  For my money, I’ll patiently wait to see what Apple has indeed done and pass judgment after experiencing what most likely be an improvement.Bill & Leader Dog Hollandwfgal...@icloud.com-- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list.If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.comThe archives for this list can be searched at:http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/--- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.



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RE: Apple's headphone scam

2016-01-19 Thread Simon Fogarty

Hi folks,

This change that is at this stage still a rumour is at least 6 months away and 
lets face it, the headphone jack wont change over night,because it’s used by 
all.

If apple go with the thinner iPhone 7 or what ever they call it, and therefore 
remove the 3.5 mil jack, they will most likely create an adaptor to go with the 
change, and what’s wrong with lightening to 3.5mil  remember that there are a 
hell of a lot more headphone producers with that type of connector than Apple 
producing one line of products and hell Samsung wont put a lightening connector 
in their devices

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 19 January 2016 2:49 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Apple's headphone scam

None of that explains why they have to abandon the headphone jack. Your point 
about the M4A encoding quality doesn't really address the issue, which is that 
ITunes and Apple Music do not provide as good audio quality as other providers. 
Surely, you are own guessing Apple's reasons for implimenting this, just in the 
same way as I am. I am however prepared to accept that there may be quite a lot 
of truth in what you've written my friend. I am however able to take a 
seemingly more neutral and balanced approach to Apple. I love their 
accessibility, but I do not appreciate the way they lock customers into their 
products. I get the feeling that you might be an Apple extremist, unable to 
find any fault with anything they do, advising people not to speak up against 
their concerns. If their concerns are raised then at least this helps Apple 
understand how their customers feel about their productts, which is very 
valuable for any business. My Apple extremism analogy seems further supported 
by your email signature. Apple is not a religion; it is a business. There is no 
need to respond to critiques of said business with suce emotive fervour.

Well I must say, this is out of character for me. I normally avoid 
confrontations on email lists and forums, but I'm quite enjoying myself. Hope 
you are too.

.  ,

Sent from my iPhone

On 18 Jan 2016, at 12:09, Ray Foret Jr 
<rforet7...@comcast.net<mailto:rforet7...@comcast.net>> wrote:
Frankly,  I think you are looking for a reason to abandin Apple anyway.  Sounds 
like it to me.  I know that audio can both be received by the lightning jack as 
well as send it out.  Furthermore, the lightning jack can render true 5.1 
channel sound.  Can your precious 3.5 MM jack do that?  Of course it cannot.  
As for file resolution.  YOu are wrong in stating that .m4a only goes up to 
256KBPS.  I can code it as high as 320KBPS.  I'm not sure if you bothered to 
really pay attention to what I said but, Apple is soon going to role out true 
high resolution audio.  I'm quite certain they will have the adapters for older 
headphone models.
!
Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
built-in

Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,

Still a very happy Comcast XFinity Voice Guidance, Mac, Verizon Wireless 
iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!

On Jan 18, 2016, at 5:45 AM, 'onlineeagle' via MacVisionaries 
<macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:

Does seem like a cynical money making scheme. There's no reason why they can't 
have both options. All this means is that potentially people are going to find 
there old headphones redundant. If Apple provide lightning to headphone jack 
adapters then maybe this won't be so bad, but Apple are pretty good at trying 
to corner their customers and force them into staying Apple. You can only use 
ITunes  on iPhones and iPods, not android devices.  and IBooks can only be 
accessed on Apple devices. Whereas Kindle books can be read on both Amazons own 
devices as well as iPhones and iPods. You can't drag and drop files from your 
computer to your phone like you can with most other phones. You can't get 
content out of your phone from other apps like you can with other phones. As 
for audio quality: Apple music and ITunes only go as high as 256 kbps. If they 
cared about audio quality then surely this wouldn't be the case.  Spotify goes 
up to 320 kB per second, and services like tidal have los less audio quality.

Finally, do we even know if a lightning to headphone jack would really be 
possible? I do not want to be forced into buying proprietary headphones. If 
this happens then I'll abandon Apple. I think it's important that people let 
Apple know about their concerns. Maybe we should have done something similar 
about their working conditions for their workers in China, but that's another 
issue. Thanks.

Sent from my iPhone

On 18 Jan 2016, at 11:17, Ray Foret Jr 
<rforet7...@comcast.net<mailto:rforet7...@comcast.net>> wrote:
I would advise having nothing to do with this.  You are overlooking an obvious 
benefit;  and it's not just more money for Apple:  rather it's

Re: Apple's headphone scam

2016-01-19 Thread Terje Strømberg

What about one unit for all? No you have external battery and soon adapters 
with dac for 3.5mm plugs. Much external stuff to carry around, Humoristic said, 
like a joke, iPhone is an external Phone for iWatch.

Serious: Down the road, there probably will be all wireless connectivity 
between devices. Even external charging. Some of us like to use the 3.5mm 
output and cabled headphones. Therefore some peoople in different communities 
out there will try to influence apple if there is some truth in the rumour.

Take care

19. jan. 2016 kl. 09:29 skrev Simon Fogarty <si...@blinky-net.com>:

Hi folks,
 
This change that is at this stage still a rumour is at least 6 months away and 
lets face it, the headphone jack wont change over night,because it’s used by 
all.
 
If apple go with the thinner iPhone 7 or what ever they call it, and therefore 
remove the 3.5 mil jack, they will most likely create an adaptor to go with the 
change, and what’s wrong with lightening to 3.5mil  remember that there are a 
hell of a lot more headphone producers with that type of connector than Apple 
producing one line of products and hell Samsung wont put a lightening connector 
in their devices
 
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, 19 January 2016 2:49 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Apple's headphone scam
 
None of that explains why they have to abandon the headphone jack. Your point 
about the M4A encoding quality doesn't really address the issue, which is that 
ITunes and Apple Music do not provide as good audio quality as other providers. 
Surely, you are own guessing Apple's reasons for implimenting this, just in the 
same way as I am. I am however prepared to accept that there may be quite a lot 
of truth in what you've written my friend. I am however able to take a 
seemingly more neutral and balanced approach to Apple. I love their 
accessibility, but I do not appreciate the way they lock customers into their 
products. I get the feeling that you might be an Apple extremist, unable to 
find any fault with anything they do, advising people not to speak up against 
their concerns. If their concerns are raised then at least this helps Apple 
understand how their customers feel about their productts, which is very 
valuable for any business. My Apple extremism analogy seems further supported 
by your email signature. Apple is not a religion; it is a business. There is no 
need to respond to critiques of said business with suce emotive fervour.
 
Well I must say, this is out of character for me. I normally avoid 
confrontations on email lists and forums, but I'm quite enjoying myself. Hope 
you are too. 
 
.  ,

Sent from my iPhone

On 18 Jan 2016, at 12:09, Ray Foret Jr <rforet7...@comcast.net> wrote:

Frankly,  I think you are looking for a reason to abandin Apple anyway.  Sounds 
like it to me.  I know that audio can both be received by the lightning jack as 
well as send it out.  Furthermore, the lightning jack can render true 5.1 
channel sound.  Can your precious 3.5 MM jack do that?  Of course it cannot.  
As for file resolution.  YOu are wrong in stating that .m4a only goes up to 
256KBPS.  I can code it as high as 320KBPS.  I'm not sure if you bothered to 
really pay attention to what I said but, Apple is soon going to role out true 
high resolution audio.  I'm quite certain they will have the adapters for older 
headphone models.  
!

Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
built-in
 
Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,

Still a very happy Comcast XFinity Voice Guidance, Mac, Verizon Wireless 
iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!
 
On Jan 18, 2016, at 5:45 AM, 'onlineeagle' via MacVisionaries 
<macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:
 
Does seem like a cynical money making scheme. There's no reason why they can't 
have both options. All this means is that potentially people are going to find 
there old headphones redundant. If Apple provide lightning to headphone jack 
adapters then maybe this won't be so bad, but Apple are pretty good at trying 
to corner their customers and force them into staying Apple. You can only use 
ITunes  on iPhones and iPods, not android devices.  and IBooks can only be 
accessed on Apple devices. Whereas Kindle books can be read on both Amazons own 
devices as well as iPhones and iPods. You can't drag and drop files from your 
computer to your phone like you can with most other phones. You can't get 
content out of your phone from other apps like you can with other phones. As 
for audio quality: Apple music and ITunes only go as high as 256 kbps. If they 
cared about audio quality then surely this wouldn't be the case.  Spotify goes 
up to 320 kB per second, and services like tidal have los less audio quality.
 
Finally, do we even know if a lightning to headphone jack would really be 
possible? I do not want to be forced into buying proprietary headphones

Re: Apple's headphone scam

2016-01-19 Thread Ricardo Walker

Hi,

I think "have to" isn’t the way too look at it. I mean, we didn’t have to 
abandon the 3.5 floppy, or the optical drive, or traditional hard disks. We 
didn’t have to abandon CRT monitors, and non USB connections for keyboards and 
mice. For either form or function, something better comes a long. People then 
adapt to that new thing. I don’t see why this is any different.

JMO.
> On Jan 18, 2016, at 8:49 AM, 'onlineeagle' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> None of that explains why they have to abandon the headphone jack. Your point 
> about the M4A encoding quality doesn't really address the issue, which is 
> that ITunes and Apple Music do not provide as good audio quality as other 
> providers. Surely, you are own guessing Apple's reasons for implimenting 
> this, just in the same way as I am. I am however prepared to accept that 
> there may be quite a lot of truth in what you've written my friend. I am 
> however able to take a seemingly more neutral and balanced approach to Apple. 
> I love their accessibility, but I do not appreciate the way they lock 
> customers into their products. I get the feeling that you might be an Apple 
> extremist, unable to find any fault with anything they do, advising people 
> not to speak up against their concerns. If their concerns are raised then at 
> least this helps Apple understand how their customers feel about their 
> productts, which is very valuable for any business. My Apple extremism 
> analogy seems further supported by your email signature. Apple is not a 
> religion; it is a business. There is no need to respond to critiques of said 
> business with suce emotive fervour.
> 
> Well I must say, this is out of character for me. I normally avoid 
> confrontations on email lists and forums, but I'm quite enjoying myself. Hope 
> you are too. 
> 
> .  ,
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On 18 Jan 2016, at 12:09, Ray Foret Jr  wrote:
> 
>> Frankly,  I think you are looking for a reason to abandin Apple anyway.  
>> Sounds like it to me.  I know that audio can both be received by the 
>> lightning jack as well as send it out.  Furthermore, the lightning jack can 
>> render true 5.1 channel sound.  Can your precious 3.5 MM jack do that?  Of 
>> course it cannot.  As for file resolution.  YOu are wrong in stating that 
>> .m4a only goes up to 256KBPS.  I can code it as high as 320KBPS.  I'm not 
>> sure if you bothered to really pay attention to what I said but, Apple is 
>> soon going to role out true high resolution audio.  I'm quite certain they 
>> will have the adapters for older headphone models.  
>> !
>> 
>> Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
>> built-in
>> 
>> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,
>> 
>> Still a very happy Comcast XFinity Voice Guidance, Mac, Verizon Wireless 
>> iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!
>> 
>>> On Jan 18, 2016, at 5:45 AM, 'onlineeagle' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Does seem like a cynical money making scheme. There's no reason why they 
>>> can't have both options. All this means is that potentially people are 
>>> going to find there old headphones redundant. If Apple provide lightning to 
>>> headphone jack adapters then maybe this won't be so bad, but Apple are 
>>> pretty good at trying to corner their customers and force them into staying 
>>> Apple. You can only use ITunes  on iPhones and iPods, not android devices.  
>>> and IBooks can only be accessed on Apple devices. Whereas Kindle books can 
>>> be read on both Amazons own devices as well as iPhones and iPods. You can't 
>>> drag and drop files from your computer to your phone like you can with most 
>>> other phones. You can't get content out of your phone from other apps like 
>>> you can with other phones. As for audio quality: Apple music and ITunes 
>>> only go as high as 256 kbps. If they cared about audio quality then surely 
>>> this wouldn't be the case.  Spotify goes up to 320 kB per second, and 
>>> services like tidal have los less audio quality.
>>> 
>>> Finally, do we even know if a lightning to headphone jack would really be 
>>> possible? I do not want to be forced into buying proprietary headphones. If 
>>> this happens then I'll abandon Apple. I think it's important that people 
>>> let Apple know about their concerns. Maybe we should have done something 
>>> similar about their working conditions for their workers in China, but 
>>> that's another issue. Thanks.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On 18 Jan 2016, at 11:17, Ray Foret Jr  wrote:
>>> 
 I would advise having nothing to do with this.  You are overlooking an 
 obvious benefit;  and it's not just more money for Apple:  rather it's 
 this.  The plain fact is that it's better to lose the headphone jack 
 because you can get much better audio out of the lightning connecter than 
 you can out of the

Re: Apple's headphone scam

2016-01-19 Thread Ricardo Walker

A couple reasons. The first being money. Why pay Apple to license airplay to 
put in your headphones, when you can just use bluetooth for wireless 
connectivity. Second is quality. I can tell you, I’ve had airplay drop far more 
than I’ve had bluetooth drop.

hth
> On Jan 18, 2016, at 5:12 PM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> One thing i am concerned about is why there’s not any airplay headphones 
> around yet?
> /A
>> On 18 Jan 2016, at 15:37, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> I’m afraid I just can’t quite bring myself to be sufficiently moved.  I 
>> don’t like planned obsolescence or proprietary standards either, but I’m 
>> also in the market for a new pair of travel headphones, and I actually would 
>> love a digital path between my iPhone and my headset.  I was not among those 
>> poor souls hurt by the 30-pin to Lightning transition, because I was not 
>> quite so silly as to buy expensive equipment with that connector.  And, yes, 
>> electronic waste is a terrible, terrible thing, but I doubt Apple will fail 
>> to provide a transition for users of the 3.5-mm plug.  I know it’s painful, 
>> but we do need to move forward.
>> 
>> JMO.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
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>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
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> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
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You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Apple's headphone scam

Ah that’s the difference, you paid for it, I freaked the call.:)  From the Rock 
and Roll truck stop no less where each table had an AC outlet and a payphone.  
Ah good times.

Go 212 Metal Shop!

> On Jan 18, 2016, at 12:47 PM, 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
> <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> 
> Back in the day I actually paid good money to "The Source" plus long distance 
> to read news from the 84 Olympics at 300 BAUD. That and downloading 
> walkthroughs for Zork :)
> 
> CB
> 
> On 1/18/16 11:46 AM, E.T. wrote:
>> Not to overlook 300 baud. We are not in that much of a hurry are we these 
>> days? We can stand to sit and wait a week for a download. can we not?
>> 
>>   Its all in the name of progress. If its moving too fast, people can jump 
>> off at the next stop. There is always the next train.
>> 
>>   78s? There are those who probably swore at the invasion of LPs.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> 
>> On 1/18/2016 8:37 AM, 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>> So history rhymes a lot. Why would Apple go with that funky 3.5" disk
>>> when I already had boxes of 5 1/4" floppies. Dropping ADB for keyboards
>>> and mice to adopt the unknown USB means I had to get all new devices.
>>> What was so awful expensive about a CD drive that they had to leave it
>>> out of the newer machines? What were they thinking going with the little
>>> 3.5mm jack when my 1/4" quadrophonic Koss headphones are still good? In
>>> all these cases Apple just moved on before the consumers really knew
>>> where the trends were going. Wouldn't it be possible that IF Apple
>>> dropped the last bastion of analog I/O they might actually include
>>> headphones with the new fangled connector? For those with nice high-end
>>> headphones a little adaptation might be in line but years from now we'll
>>> look back and wonder what the big deal was. In the end it's all
>>> disposable, just happening sooner than some would like. Sure some niche
>>> or luddite realms linger, but Apple doesn't seem to care as much about
>>> those. Vacuum tubes and vinyl LPs anyone? Yes, those are fighting words
>>> in some camps :)
>>> 
>>> CB
>>> 
>>> On 1/18/16 10:36 AM, E.T. wrote:
>>>> Change is ever so very difficult yet change is exactly what brings us
>>>> to this point in time. With change comes the task of breaking old
>>>> obsolete habits and forming new ones.
>>>> 
>>>>   For example, look at the mad rush people make to trade in the last
>>>> generation of iPhones even if it is perfectly functional, or stand in
>>>> line overnight to get that new Apple TV.
>>>> 
>>>>   So Apple has very good reason for change. Its simple. People want
>>>> change.
>>>> 
>>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>>> 
>>>> On 1/18/2016 7:12 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:
>>>>> Yes, the 3.5 m jack would go bye bye. You'd have to get new headphones,
>>>>> if this wind up being true which would have a lightning plug on the end,
>>>>> like your charger, instead of the rounded 3.5M plug.
>>>>> Chris.
>>>>> 
>>>>>- Original Message -
>>>>>*From:* Kawal Gucukoglu <mailto:kgli...@icloud.com>
>>>>>*To:* Macvisionaries <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>>>>>*Sent:* Monday, January 18, 2016 10:01 AM
>>>>>*Subject:* Re: Apple's headphone scam
>>>>> 
>>>>>Please could someone tell me how headphones could fit in a
>>>>>lightening adaptor?  You mean there would be a different kind of
>>>>>thing to put in a socket?
>>>>> 
>>>>>I don’t understand this headphone lightening connector thing.  When
>>>>>I sell my I phones, I normally sell the headphones as well if they
>>>>>are still working by then.
>>>>> 
>>>>>Kawal. On 18 Jan 2016, at 14:37, Sabahattin Gucukoglu
>>>>><listse...@me.com <mailto:listse...@me.com>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>I’m afraid I just can’t quite bring mys

Re: Apple's headphone scam

gt;>>>> generation of iPhones even if it is perfectly functional, or stand in
>>>>>> line overnight to get that new Apple TV.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   So Apple has very good reason for change. Its simple. People want
>>>>>> change.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>>>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com <mailto:ancient.ali...@icloud.com>
>>>>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>>>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 1/18/2016 7:12 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:
>>>>>>> Yes, the 3.5 m jack would go bye bye. You'd have to get new headphones,
>>>>>>> if this wind up being true which would have a lightning plug on the end,
>>>>>>> like your charger, instead of the rounded 3.5M plug.
>>>>>>> Chris.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>- Original Message -
>>>>>>>*From:* Kawal Gucukoglu <mailto:kgli...@icloud.com 
>>>>>>> <mailto:kgli...@icloud.com>>
>>>>>>>*To:* Macvisionaries <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
>>>>>>>*Sent:* Monday, January 18, 2016 10:01 AM
>>>>>>>*Subject:* Re: Apple's headphone scam
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>Please could someone tell me how headphones could fit in a
>>>>>>>lightening adaptor?  You mean there would be a different kind of
>>>>>>>thing to put in a socket?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>I don’t understand this headphone lightening connector thing.  When
>>>>>>>I sell my I phones, I normally sell the headphones as well if they
>>>>>>>are still working by then.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>Kawal. On 18 Jan 2016, at 14:37, Sabahattin Gucukoglu
>>>>>>><listse...@me.com <mailto:listse...@me.com> <mailto:listse...@me.com 
>>>>>>> <mailto:listse...@me.com>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>I’m afraid I just can’t quite bring myself to be sufficiently
>>>>>>>>moved.  I don’t like planned obsolescence or proprietary standards
>>>>>>>>either, but I’m also in the market for a new pair of travel
>>>>>>>>headphones, and I actually would love a digital path between my
>>>>>>>>iPhone and my headset.  I was not among those poor souls hurt by
>>>>>>>>the 30-pin to Lightning transition, because I was not quite so
>>>>>>>>silly as to buy expensive equipment with that connector. And,
>>>>>>>>yes, electronic waste is a terrible, terrible thing, but I doubt
>>>>>>>>Apple will fail to provide a transition for users of the 3.5-mm
>>>>>>>>plug.  I know it’s painful, but we do need to move forward.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>JMO.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>>The following information is important for all members of the Mac
>>>>>>>>Visionaries list.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this
>>>>>>>>list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please
>>>>>>>>contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on
>>>>>>>>the list itself.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner
>>>>>>>>is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>>>>>>>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>
>>>>>>>><mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>>
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>>>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/>
>>>>>>>>---
>>>>>>>>You

Re: Apple's headphone scam

Actually, you can do more with a 3.5 MM jack than your thinking including 5.1.  
I have a DAT machine that uses the 3.5 inch jack format on the DAT side to 
provide SPDIF and there’s an adapter to the standard RCA type SPDIF connector.

You’re drinking the cool aid to much on the lightning cable, all the things you 
mentioned can be done with standard jacks or wireless profiles.  This is purely 
a space savings move to pack more in the package.

> On Jan 18, 2016, at 7:09 AM, Ray Foret Jr  wrote:
> 
> Frankly,  I think you are looking for a reason to abandin Apple anyway.  
> Sounds like it to me.  I know that audio can both be received by the 
> lightning jack as well as send it out.  Furthermore, the lightning jack can 
> render true 5.1 channel sound.  Can your precious 3.5 MM jack do that?  Of 
> course it cannot.  As for file resolution.  YOu are wrong in stating that 
> .m4a only goes up to 256KBPS.  I can code it as high as 320KBPS.  I'm not 
> sure if you bothered to really pay attention to what I said but, Apple is 
> soon going to role out true high resolution audio.  I'm quite certain they 
> will have the adapters for older headphone models.  
> !
> 
> Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
> built-in
> 
> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,
> 
> Still a very happy Comcast XFinity Voice Guidance, Mac, Verizon Wireless 
> iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!
> 
>> On Jan 18, 2016, at 5:45 AM, 'onlineeagle' via MacVisionaries 
>> > 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Does seem like a cynical money making scheme. There's no reason why they 
>> can't have both options. All this means is that potentially people are going 
>> to find there old headphones redundant. If Apple provide lightning to 
>> headphone jack adapters then maybe this won't be so bad, but Apple are 
>> pretty good at trying to corner their customers and force them into staying 
>> Apple. You can only use ITunes  on iPhones and iPods, not android devices.  
>> and IBooks can only be accessed on Apple devices. Whereas Kindle books can 
>> be read on both Amazons own devices as well as iPhones and iPods. You can't 
>> drag and drop files from your computer to your phone like you can with most 
>> other phones. You can't get content out of your phone from other apps like 
>> you can with other phones. As for audio quality: Apple music and ITunes only 
>> go as high as 256 kbps. If they cared about audio quality then surely this 
>> wouldn't be the case.  Spotify goes up to 320 kB per second, and services 
>> like tidal have los less audio quality.
>> 
>> Finally, do we even know if a lightning to headphone jack would really be 
>> possible? I do not want to be forced into buying proprietary headphones. If 
>> this happens then I'll abandon Apple. I think it's important that people let 
>> Apple know about their concerns. Maybe we should have done something similar 
>> about their working conditions for their workers in China, but that's 
>> another issue. Thanks.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On 18 Jan 2016, at 11:17, Ray Foret Jr > > wrote:
>> 
>>> I would advise having nothing to do with this.  You are overlooking an 
>>> obvious benefit;  and it's not just more money for Apple:  rather it's 
>>> this.  The plain fact is that it's better to lose the headphone jack 
>>> because you can get much better audio out of the lightning connecter than 
>>> you can out of the 3.5MM jack.  With the use of the lightning connecter, 
>>> you can take advantage of the high resolution audio format which Apple is 
>>> said to be roling out soon.  Also, there are other advantages besides.  
>>> Don't fall for this emotional knee-jerk nonsense.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> !
>>> 
>>> Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
>>> built-in
>>> 
>>> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,
>>> 
>>> Still a very happy Comcast XFinity Voice Guidance, Mac, Verizon Wireless 
>>> iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!
>>> 
 On Jan 18, 2016, at 4:54 AM, Terje Strømberg > wrote:
 
 Friends,
 
 If the rumours are true, the iPhone 7 will have a non-standard, 
 proprietary headphone jack -- meaning piles more cash for Apple and miles 
 more e-waste for the rest of us.
 
 Sign this petition to get Apple to stick to the standard headphone jack on 
 the iPhone: http://action.sumofus.org/a/iphone-headphone-jack/?sub=mtl 
 
 
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Re: Apple's headphone scam

2016-01-19 Thread Jessica Moss

Exactly, My family and I are all IPhone users, and all of them accept myself 
are sighted, and my dad and I have both had complaints at one point when IOS 6, 
I think it was, came out, that allowed maps to announce turn-by-turn 
directions, but it also had a lot of other issues, and he and I both had issues 
with it, and he had tons of complaints with the operating system itself and 
wasn't a voiceover user.
On Jan 18, 2016, at 8:49 AM, 'onlineeagle' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

> None of that explains why they have to abandon the headphone jack. Your point 
> about the M4A encoding quality doesn't really address the issue, which is 
> that ITunes and Apple Music do not provide as good audio quality as other 
> providers. Surely, you are own guessing Apple's reasons for implimenting 
> this, just in the same way as I am. I am however prepared to accept that 
> there may be quite a lot of truth in what you've written my friend. I am 
> however able to take a seemingly more neutral and balanced approach to Apple. 
> I love their accessibility, but I do not appreciate the way they lock 
> customers into their products. I get the feeling that you might be an Apple 
> extremist, unable to find any fault with anything they do, advising people 
> not to speak up against their concerns. If their concerns are raised then at 
> least this helps Apple understand how their customers feel about their 
> productts, which is very valuable for any business. My Apple extremism 
> analogy seems further supported by your email signature. Apple is not a 
> religion; it is a business. There is no need to respond to critiques of said 
> business with suce emotive fervour.
> 
> Well I must say, this is out of character for me. I normally avoid 
> confrontations on email lists and forums, but I'm quite enjoying myself. Hope 
> you are too. 
> 
> .  ,
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On 18 Jan 2016, at 12:09, Ray Foret Jr  wrote:
> 
>> Frankly,  I think you are looking for a reason to abandin Apple anyway.  
>> Sounds like it to me.  I know that audio can both be received by the 
>> lightning jack as well as send it out.  Furthermore, the lightning jack can 
>> render true 5.1 channel sound.  Can your precious 3.5 MM jack do that?  Of 
>> course it cannot.  As for file resolution.  YOu are wrong in stating that 
>> .m4a only goes up to 256KBPS.  I can code it as high as 320KBPS.  I'm not 
>> sure if you bothered to really pay attention to what I said but, Apple is 
>> soon going to role out true high resolution audio.  I'm quite certain they 
>> will have the adapters for older headphone models.  
>> !
>> 
>> Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
>> built-in
>> 
>> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,
>> 
>> Still a very happy Comcast XFinity Voice Guidance, Mac, Verizon Wireless 
>> iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!
>> 
>>> On Jan 18, 2016, at 5:45 AM, 'onlineeagle' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Does seem like a cynical money making scheme. There's no reason why they 
>>> can't have both options. All this means is that potentially people are 
>>> going to find there old headphones redundant. If Apple provide lightning to 
>>> headphone jack adapters then maybe this won't be so bad, but Apple are 
>>> pretty good at trying to corner their customers and force them into staying 
>>> Apple. You can only use ITunes  on iPhones and iPods, not android devices.  
>>> and IBooks can only be accessed on Apple devices. Whereas Kindle books can 
>>> be read on both Amazons own devices as well as iPhones and iPods. You can't 
>>> drag and drop files from your computer to your phone like you can with most 
>>> other phones. You can't get content out of your phone from other apps like 
>>> you can with other phones. As for audio quality: Apple music and ITunes 
>>> only go as high as 256 kbps. If they cared about audio quality then surely 
>>> this wouldn't be the case.  Spotify goes up to 320 kB per second, and 
>>> services like tidal have los less audio quality.
>>> 
>>> Finally, do we even know if a lightning to headphone jack would really be 
>>> possible? I do not want to be forced into buying proprietary headphones. If 
>>> this happens then I'll abandon Apple. I think it's important that people 
>>> let Apple know about their concerns. Maybe we should have done something 
>>> similar about their working conditions for their workers in China, but 
>>> that's another issue. Thanks.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On 18 Jan 2016, at 11:17, Ray Foret Jr  wrote:
>>> 
 I would advise having nothing to do with this.  You are overlooking an 
 obvious benefit;  and it's not just more money for Apple:  rather it's 
 this.  The plain fact is that it's better to lose the headphone jack 
 because you can get much better audio out of the lightning connecter than

Re: Apple's headphone scam

2016-01-19 Thread Jessica Moss

Ok, I'm really confused here, how exactly is this supposed to work here?  is 
this secondary adapter we carry around with the headphones themselves, or a 
whole different set of headphones we have to purchase?
On Jan 18, 2016, at 5:54 AM, Terje Strømberg  wrote:

> Friends,
> 
> If the rumours are true, the iPhone 7 will have a non-standard, proprietary 
> headphone jack -- meaning piles more cash for Apple and miles more e-waste 
> for the rest of us.
> 
> Sign this petition to get Apple to stick to the standard headphone jack on 
> the iPhone: http://action.sumofus.org/a/iphone-headphone-jack/?sub=mtl
> 
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Re: Apple's headphone scam

2016-01-19 Thread E.T.

   Heh yes I remember that one. Well, that may be one way to "collect" 
feedback.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 1/19/2016 8:45 AM, Scott Granados wrote:

I wouldn’t go that far, the leak what they want to create buzz as well.  Many 
of the rumors are dead on and you should weight the sources by their previous 
accuracy.

Also, sometimes you even have apple leaving devices in bars, oops.:)


On Jan 19, 2016, at 11:37 AM, E.T.  wrote:

   Its anybody's guess until September. Until then, its nothing  but 
speculation. Apple, as well as any other company, is not in the habit of 
releasing information ahead of product release to market. To do so is suicide.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 1/19/2016 8:24 AM, Jessica Moss wrote:

Ok, I'm really confused here, how exactly is this supposed to work here?  is 
this secondary adapter we carry around with the headphones themselves, or a 
whole different set of headphones we have to purchase?
On Jan 18, 2016, at 5:54 AM, Terje Strømberg  wrote:


Friends,

If the rumours are true, the iPhone 7 will have a non-standard, proprietary 
headphone jack -- meaning piles more cash for Apple and miles more e-waste for 
the rest of us.

Sign this petition to get Apple to stick to the standard headphone jack on the 
iPhone: http://action.sumofus.org/a/iphone-headphone-jack/?sub=mtl

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Re: Apple's headphone scam

2016-01-19 Thread E.T.

   Its anybody's guess until September. Until then, its nothing  but 
speculation. Apple, as well as any other company, is not in the habit of 
releasing information ahead of product release to market. To do so is 
suicide.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 1/19/2016 8:24 AM, Jessica Moss wrote:

Ok, I'm really confused here, how exactly is this supposed to work here?  is 
this secondary adapter we carry around with the headphones themselves, or a 
whole different set of headphones we have to purchase?
On Jan 18, 2016, at 5:54 AM, Terje Strømberg  wrote:


Friends,

If the rumours are true, the iPhone 7 will have a non-standard, proprietary 
headphone jack -- meaning piles more cash for Apple and miles more e-waste for 
the rest of us.

Sign this petition to get Apple to stick to the standard headphone jack on the 
iPhone: http://action.sumofus.org/a/iphone-headphone-jack/?sub=mtl

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Re: Apple's headphone scam

I wouldn’t go that far, the leak what they want to create buzz as well.  Many 
of the rumors are dead on and you should weight the sources by their previous 
accuracy.

Also, sometimes you even have apple leaving devices in bars, oops.:)

> On Jan 19, 2016, at 11:37 AM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
>   Its anybody's guess until September. Until then, its nothing  but 
> speculation. Apple, as well as any other company, is not in the habit of 
> releasing information ahead of product release to market. To do so is suicide.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 1/19/2016 8:24 AM, Jessica Moss wrote:
>> Ok, I'm really confused here, how exactly is this supposed to work here?  is 
>> this secondary adapter we carry around with the headphones themselves, or a 
>> whole different set of headphones we have to purchase?
>> On Jan 18, 2016, at 5:54 AM, Terje Strømberg  wrote:
>> 
>>> Friends,
>>> 
>>> If the rumours are true, the iPhone 7 will have a non-standard, proprietary 
>>> headphone jack -- meaning piles more cash for Apple and miles more e-waste 
>>> for the rest of us.
>>> 
>>> Sign this petition to get Apple to stick to the standard headphone jack on 
>>> the iPhone: http://action.sumofus.org/a/iphone-headphone-jack/?sub=mtl
>>> 
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Re: Apple's headphone scam

2016-01-18 Thread Kawal Gucukoglu

Please could someone tell me how headphones could fit in a lightening adaptor?  
You mean there would be a different kind of thing to put in a socket?

I don’t understand this headphone lightening connector thing.  When I sell my I 
phones, I normally sell the headphones as well if they are still working by 
then.

Kawal. On 18 Jan 2016, at 14:37, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> I’m afraid I just can’t quite bring myself to be sufficiently moved.  I don’t 
> like planned obsolescence or proprietary standards either, but I’m also in 
> the market for a new pair of travel headphones, and I actually would love a 
> digital path between my iPhone and my headset.  I was not among those poor 
> souls hurt by the 30-pin to Lightning transition, because I was not quite so 
> silly as to buy expensive equipment with that connector.  And, yes, 
> electronic waste is a terrible, terrible thing, but I doubt Apple will fail 
> to provide a transition for users of the 3.5-mm plug.  I know it’s painful, 
> but we do need to move forward.
> 
> JMO.
> 
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Re: Apple's headphone scam

2016-01-18 Thread Ray Foret Jr

Point taken and well made.  For what it's worth, I rather doubt it will 
actually heppen that the headphone jack will go.  
!

Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
built-in

Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,

Still a very happy Comcast XFinity Voice Guidance, Mac, Verizon Wireless 
iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!

> On Jan 18, 2016, at 7:58 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgillan...@gmail.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Ray,
>  
> You! are also failing to see something though.  You're point is valid and 
> well taken, don't get me wrong here, but what about those who don't have 
> headphones with a lightning connecter.  Or what about those like myself who 
> use both Apple, and! Android products?  Are we gonna be left in the cold 
> having to buy two different pares of headphones, and lug both them around 
> with us?  Surely that seems absurd.
>  
> Before you say, there are adapters probably being made, take it from a guy 
> who's a certified engineer.  If you take an 8th inch plug, and pop a 
> lightning adapter on it, the bottom line is the signal is traveling down the 
> line from the lightning, to the 3.5M plug, down the headphone cord, and to 
> your earpieces.  The point being, that signal might have started as digital, 
> giving you the new to come high resolution, but ultimately by the time it 
> hits your ears, it will have been carried down the line to your stereo 3.5M 
> jack in the adapter, and at that point, your headphones won't know what to do 
> with that signal.  It would most likely be converted to an annalog signal.  
> Therefore, the only way you'd truly get that benefit is no adapter.  Plug 
> directly in, which means new headphones for us, which means more marketting 
> by Apple, and more money for Apple.
>  
> I'm just sayin'.
>  
> Chris.
>  
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: Ray Foret Jr <mailto:rforet7...@comcast.net>
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>> Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 6:17 AM
>> Subject: Re: Apple's headphone scam
>> 
>> I would advise having nothing to do with this.  You are overlooking an 
>> obvious benefit;  and it's not just more money for Apple:  rather it's this. 
>>  The plain fact is that it's better to lose the headphone jack because you 
>> can get much better audio out of the lightning connecter than you can out of 
>> the 3.5MM jack.  With the use of the lightning connecter, you can take 
>> advantage of the high resolution audio format which Apple is said to be 
>> roling out soon.  Also, there are other advantages besides.  Don't fall for 
>> this emotional knee-jerk nonsense.
>> 
>> 
>> !
>> 
>> Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
>> built-in
>> 
>> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,
>> 
>> Still a very happy Comcast XFinity Voice Guidance, Mac, Verizon Wireless 
>> iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!
>> 
>>> On Jan 18, 2016, at 4:54 AM, Terje Strømberg <terjestrmb...@gmail.com 
>>> <mailto:terjestrmb...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Friends,
>>> 
>>> If the rumours are true, the iPhone 7 will have a non-standard, proprietary 
>>> headphone jack -- meaning piles more cash for Apple and miles more e-waste 
>>> for the rest of us.
>>> 
>>> Sign this petition to get Apple to stick to the standard headphone jack on 
>>> the iPhone: http://action.sumofus.org/a/iphone-headphone-jack/?sub=mtl 
>>> <http://action.sumofus.org/a/iphone-headphone-jack/?sub=mtl>
>>> 
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>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>

Re: Apple's headphone scam

I’m afraid I just can’t quite bring myself to be sufficiently moved.  I don’t 
like planned obsolescence or proprietary standards either, but I’m also in the 
market for a new pair of travel headphones, and I actually would love a digital 
path between my iPhone and my headset.  I was not among those poor souls hurt 
by the 30-pin to Lightning transition, because I was not quite so silly as to 
buy expensive equipment with that connector.  And, yes, electronic waste is a 
terrible, terrible thing, but I doubt Apple will fail to provide a transition 
for users of the 3.5-mm plug.  I know it’s painful, but we do need to move 
forward.

JMO.

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Re: Apple's headphone scam

None of that explains why they have to abandon the headphone jack. Your point 
about the M4A encoding quality doesn't really address the issue, which is that 
ITunes and Apple Music do not provide as good audio quality as other providers. 
Surely, you are own guessing Apple's reasons for implimenting this, just in the 
same way as I am. I am however prepared to accept that there may be quite a lot 
of truth in what you've written my friend. I am however able to take a 
seemingly more neutral and balanced approach to Apple. I love their 
accessibility, but I do not appreciate the way they lock customers into their 
products. I get the feeling that you might be an Apple extremist, unable to 
find any fault with anything they do, advising people not to speak up against 
their concerns. If their concerns are raised then at least this helps Apple 
understand how their customers feel about their productts, which is very 
valuable for any business. My Apple extremism analogy seems further supported 
by your email signature. Apple is not a religion; it is a business. There is no 
need to respond to critiques of said business with suce emotive fervour.

Well I must say, this is out of character for me. I normally avoid 
confrontations on email lists and forums, but I'm quite enjoying myself. Hope 
you are too. 

.  ,

Sent from my iPhone

> On 18 Jan 2016, at 12:09, Ray Foret Jr  wrote:
> 
> Frankly,  I think you are looking for a reason to abandin Apple anyway.  
> Sounds like it to me.  I know that audio can both be received by the 
> lightning jack as well as send it out.  Furthermore, the lightning jack can 
> render true 5.1 channel sound.  Can your precious 3.5 MM jack do that?  Of 
> course it cannot.  As for file resolution.  YOu are wrong in stating that 
> .m4a only goes up to 256KBPS.  I can code it as high as 320KBPS.  I'm not 
> sure if you bothered to really pay attention to what I said but, Apple is 
> soon going to role out true high resolution audio.  I'm quite certain they 
> will have the adapters for older headphone models.  
> !
> 
> Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
> built-in
> 
> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,
> 
> Still a very happy Comcast XFinity Voice Guidance, Mac, Verizon Wireless 
> iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!
> 
>> On Jan 18, 2016, at 5:45 AM, 'onlineeagle' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Does seem like a cynical money making scheme. There's no reason why they 
>> can't have both options. All this means is that potentially people are going 
>> to find there old headphones redundant. If Apple provide lightning to 
>> headphone jack adapters then maybe this won't be so bad, but Apple are 
>> pretty good at trying to corner their customers and force them into staying 
>> Apple. You can only use ITunes  on iPhones and iPods, not android devices.  
>> and IBooks can only be accessed on Apple devices. Whereas Kindle books can 
>> be read on both Amazons own devices as well as iPhones and iPods. You can't 
>> drag and drop files from your computer to your phone like you can with most 
>> other phones. You can't get content out of your phone from other apps like 
>> you can with other phones. As for audio quality: Apple music and ITunes only 
>> go as high as 256 kbps. If they cared about audio quality then surely this 
>> wouldn't be the case.  Spotify goes up to 320 kB per second, and services 
>> like tidal have los less audio quality.
>> 
>> Finally, do we even know if a lightning to headphone jack would really be 
>> possible? I do not want to be forced into buying proprietary headphones. If 
>> this happens then I'll abandon Apple. I think it's important that people let 
>> Apple know about their concerns. Maybe we should have done something similar 
>> about their working conditions for their workers in China, but that's 
>> another issue. Thanks.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 18 Jan 2016, at 11:17, Ray Foret Jr  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I would advise having nothing to do with this.  You are overlooking an 
>>> obvious benefit;  and it's not just more money for Apple:  rather it's 
>>> this.  The plain fact is that it's better to lose the headphone jack 
>>> because you can get much better audio out of the lightning connecter than 
>>> you can out of the 3.5MM jack.  With the use of the lightning connecter, 
>>> you can take advantage of the high resolution audio format which Apple is 
>>> said to be roling out soon.  Also, there are other advantages besides.  
>>> Don't fall for this emotional knee-jerk nonsense.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> !
>>> 
>>> Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
>>> built-in
>>> 
>>> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,
>>> 
>>> Still a very happy Comcast XFinity Voice Guidance, Mac, Verizon Wireless 
>>> iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!
>>> 
 On Jan 18, 2016, at 4:54 AM, Terje Strømberg

Re: Apple's headphone scam

I wouldn't call this a comprentation, nor an argument.  I wouldn't even call it 
necessarily a debate.  I think both you and Ray have very valid points on an 
equal level.

Chris.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 'onlineeagle' via MacVisionaries 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 8:49 AM
  Subject: Re: Apple's headphone scam

  None of that explains why they have to abandon the headphone jack. Your point 
about the M4A encoding quality doesn't really address the issue, which is that 
ITunes and Apple Music do not provide as good audio quality as other providers. 
Surely, you are own guessing Apple's reasons for implimenting this, just in the 
same way as I am. I am however prepared to accept that there may be quite a lot 
of truth in what you've written my friend. I am however able to take a 
seemingly more neutral and balanced approach to Apple. I love their 
accessibility, but I do not appreciate the way they lock customers into their 
products. I get the feeling that you might be an Apple extremist, unable to 
find any fault with anything they do, advising people not to speak up against 
their concerns. If their concerns are raised then at least this helps Apple 
understand how their customers feel about their productts, which is very 
valuable for any business. My Apple extremism analogy seems further supported 
by your email signature. Apple is not a religion; it is a business. There is no 
need to respond to critiques of said business with suce emotive fervour.

  Well I must say, this is out of character for me. I normally avoid 
confrontations on email lists and forums, but I'm quite enjoying myself. Hope 
you are too. 

  .  ,

  Sent from my iPhone

  On 18 Jan 2016, at 12:09, Ray Foret Jr <rforet7...@comcast.net> wrote:

Frankly,  I think you are looking for a reason to abandin Apple anyway.  
Sounds like it to me.  I know that audio can both be received by the lightning 
jack as well as send it out.  Furthermore, the lightning jack can render true 
5.1 channel sound.  Can your precious 3.5 MM jack do that?  Of course it 
cannot.  As for file resolution.  YOu are wrong in stating that .m4a only goes 
up to 256KBPS.  I can code it as high as 320KBPS.  I'm not sure if you bothered 
to really pay attention to what I said but, Apple is soon going to role out 
true high resolution audio.  I'm quite certain they will have the adapters for 
older headphone models.  

!

Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
built-in

Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,

Still a very happy Comcast XFinity Voice Guidance, Mac, Verizon Wireless 
iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!

  On Jan 18, 2016, at 5:45 AM, 'onlineeagle' via MacVisionaries 
<macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:

  Does seem like a cynical money making scheme. There's no reason why they 
can't have both options. All this means is that potentially people are going to 
find there old headphones redundant. If Apple provide lightning to headphone 
jack adapters then maybe this won't be so bad, but Apple are pretty good at 
trying to corner their customers and force them into staying Apple. You can 
only use ITunes  on iPhones and iPods, not android devices.  and IBooks can 
only be accessed on Apple devices. Whereas Kindle books can be read on both 
Amazons own devices as well as iPhones and iPods. You can't drag and drop files 
from your computer to your phone like you can with most other phones. You can't 
get content out of your phone from other apps like you can with other phones. 
As for audio quality: Apple music and ITunes only go as high as 256 kbps. If 
they cared about audio quality then surely this wouldn't be the case.  Spotify 
goes up to 320 kB per second, and services like tidal have los less audio 
quality.

  Finally, do we even know if a lightning to headphone jack would really be 
possible? I do not want to be forced into buying proprietary headphones. If 
this happens then I'll abandon Apple. I think it's important that people let 
Apple know about their concerns. Maybe we should have done something similar 
about their working conditions for their workers in China, but that's another 
issue. Thanks.

  Sent from my iPhone

  On 18 Jan 2016, at 11:17, Ray Foret Jr <rforet7...@comcast.net> wrote:

I would advise having nothing to do with this.  You are overlooking an 
obvious benefit;  and it's not just more money for Apple:  rather it's this.  
The plain fact is that it's better to lose the headphone jack because you can 
get much better audio out of the lightning connecter than you can out of the 
3.5MM jack.  With the use of the lightning connecter, you can take advantage of 
the high resolution audio format which Apple is said to be roling out soon.  
Also, there are other advantages besides.  Don't fall for this emotional 
knee-jerk nonsense.

!

Re: Apple's headphone scam

Ray, he never said m4A wouldn't go to 320.  He simply said the music in Apple's 
store/Apple Music doesn't go above 256.  That doesn't mean it can't be done 
over all by the consumer.

Chris.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Ray Foret Jr 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 7:09 AM
  Subject: Re: Apple's headphone scam

  Frankly,  I think you are looking for a reason to abandin Apple anyway.  
Sounds like it to me.  I know that audio can both be received by the lightning 
jack as well as send it out.  Furthermore, the lightning jack can render true 
5.1 channel sound.  Can your precious 3.5 MM jack do that?  Of course it 
cannot.  As for file resolution.  YOu are wrong in stating that .m4a only goes 
up to 256KBPS.  I can code it as high as 320KBPS.  I'm not sure if you bothered 
to really pay attention to what I said but, Apple is soon going to role out 
true high resolution audio.  I'm quite certain they will have the adapters for 
older headphone models.  

  !

  Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
built-in

  Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,

  Still a very happy Comcast XFinity Voice Guidance, Mac, Verizon Wireless 
iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!

On Jan 18, 2016, at 5:45 AM, 'onlineeagle' via MacVisionaries 
<macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Does seem like a cynical money making scheme. There's no reason why they 
can't have both options. All this means is that potentially people are going to 
find there old headphones redundant. If Apple provide lightning to headphone 
jack adapters then maybe this won't be so bad, but Apple are pretty good at 
trying to corner their customers and force them into staying Apple. You can 
only use ITunes  on iPhones and iPods, not android devices.  and IBooks can 
only be accessed on Apple devices. Whereas Kindle books can be read on both 
Amazons own devices as well as iPhones and iPods. You can't drag and drop files 
from your computer to your phone like you can with most other phones. You can't 
get content out of your phone from other apps like you can with other phones. 
As for audio quality: Apple music and ITunes only go as high as 256 kbps. If 
they cared about audio quality then surely this wouldn't be the case.  Spotify 
goes up to 320 kB per second, and services like tidal have los less audio 
quality.

Finally, do we even know if a lightning to headphone jack would really be 
possible? I do not want to be forced into buying proprietary headphones. If 
this happens then I'll abandon Apple. I think it's important that people let 
Apple know about their concerns. Maybe we should have done something similar 
about their working conditions for their workers in China, but that's another 
issue. Thanks.

Sent from my iPhone

On 18 Jan 2016, at 11:17, Ray Foret Jr <rforet7...@comcast.net> wrote:

  I would advise having nothing to do with this.  You are overlooking an 
obvious benefit;  and it's not just more money for Apple:  rather it's this.  
The plain fact is that it's better to lose the headphone jack because you can 
get much better audio out of the lightning connecter than you can out of the 
3.5MM jack.  With the use of the lightning connecter, you can take advantage of 
the high resolution audio format which Apple is said to be roling out soon.  
Also, there are other advantages besides.  Don't fall for this emotional 
knee-jerk nonsense.

  !

  Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
built-in

  Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,

  Still a very happy Comcast XFinity Voice Guidance, Mac, Verizon Wireless 
iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!

On Jan 18, 2016, at 4:54 AM, Terje Strømberg <terjestrmb...@gmail.com> 
wrote:

Friends,

If the rumours are true, the iPhone 7 will have a non-standard, 
proprietary headphone jack -- meaning piles more cash for Apple and miles more 
e-waste for the rest of us.

Sign this petition to get Apple to stick to the standard headphone jack 
on the iPhone: http://action.sumofus.org/a/iphone-headphone-jack/?sub=mtl

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Re: Apple's headphone scam

Ray,

You! are also failing to see something though.  You're point is valid and well 
taken, don't get me wrong here, but what about those who don't have headphones 
with a lightning connecter.  Or what about those like myself who use both 
Apple, and! Android products?  Are we gonna be left in the cold having to buy 
two different pares of headphones, and lug both them around with us?  Surely 
that seems absurd.

Before you say, there are adapters probably being made, take it from a guy 
who's a certified engineer.  If you take an 8th inch plug, and pop a lightning 
adapter on it, the bottom line is the signal is traveling down the line from 
the lightning, to the 3.5M plug, down the headphone cord, and to your 
earpieces.  The point being, that signal might have started as digital, giving 
you the new to come high resolution, but ultimately by the time it hits your 
ears, it will have been carried down the line to your stereo 3.5M jack in the 
adapter, and at that point, your headphones won't know what to do with that 
signal.  It would most likely be converted to an annalog signal.  Therefore, 
the only way you'd truly get that benefit is no adapter.  Plug directly in, 
which means new headphones for us, which means more marketting by Apple, and 
more money for Apple.

I'm just sayin'.

Chris.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Ray Foret Jr 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 6:17 AM
  Subject: Re: Apple's headphone scam


  I would advise having nothing to do with this.  You are overlooking an 
obvious benefit;  and it's not just more money for Apple:  rather it's this.  
The plain fact is that it's better to lose the headphone jack because you can 
get much better audio out of the lightning connecter than you can out of the 
3.5MM jack.  With the use of the lightning connecter, you can take advantage of 
the high resolution audio format which Apple is said to be roling out soon.  
Also, there are other advantages besides.  Don't fall for this emotional 
knee-jerk nonsense.




  !


  Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
built-in


  Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,

  Still a very happy Comcast XFinity Voice Guidance, Mac, Verizon Wireless 
iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!


On Jan 18, 2016, at 4:54 AM, Terje Strømberg <terjestrmb...@gmail.com> 
wrote:


Friends,

If the rumours are true, the iPhone 7 will have a non-standard, proprietary 
headphone jack -- meaning piles more cash for Apple and miles more e-waste for 
the rest of us.

Sign this petition to get Apple to stick to the standard headphone jack on 
the iPhone: http://action.sumofus.org/a/iphone-headphone-jack/?sub=mtl

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Re: Apple's headphone scam

Yes, the 3.5 m jack would go bye bye.  You'd have to get new headphones, if 
this wind up being true which would have a lightning plug on the end, like your 
charger, instead of the rounded 3.5M plug.

Chris.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Kawal Gucukoglu 
  To: Macvisionaries 
  Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 10:01 AM
  Subject: Re: Apple's headphone scam

  Please could someone tell me how headphones could fit in a lightening 
adaptor?  You mean there would be a different kind of thing to put in a socket?

  I don’t understand this headphone lightening connector thing.  When I sell my 
I phones, I normally sell the headphones as well if they are still working by 
then.

  Kawal. On 18 Jan 2016, at 14:37, Sabahattin Gucukoglu <listse...@me.com> 
wrote:

I’m afraid I just can’t quite bring myself to be sufficiently moved.  I 
don’t like planned obsolescence or proprietary standards either, but I’m also 
in the market for a new pair of travel headphones, and I actually would love a 
digital path between my iPhone and my headset.  I was not among those poor 
souls hurt by the 30-pin to Lightning transition, because I was not quite so 
silly as to buy expensive equipment with that connector.  And, yes, electronic 
waste is a terrible, terrible thing, but I doubt Apple will fail to provide a 
transition for users of the 3.5-mm plug.  I know it’s painful, but we do need 
to move forward.

JMO.

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  I'm fundraising for RNIB.

  Please help me make a difference by making a donation to my Virgin Money 
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Re: Apple's headphone scam

   Change is ever so very difficult yet change is exactly what brings 
us to this point in time. With change comes the task of breaking old 
obsolete habits and forming new ones.


   For example, look at the mad rush people make to trade in the last 
generation of iPhones even if it is perfectly functional, or stand in 
line overnight to get that new Apple TV.


   So Apple has very good reason for change. Its simple. People want 
change.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 1/18/2016 7:12 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

Yes, the 3.5 m jack would go bye bye.  You'd have to get new headphones,
if this wind up being true which would have a lightning plug on the end,
like your charger, instead of the rounded 3.5M plug.
Chris.

- Original Message -
*From:* Kawal Gucukoglu <mailto:kgli...@icloud.com>
*To:* Macvisionaries <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
*Sent:* Monday, January 18, 2016 10:01 AM
*Subject:* Re: Apple's headphone scam

Please could someone tell me how headphones could fit in a
lightening adaptor?  You mean there would be a different kind of
thing to put in a socket?

I don’t understand this headphone lightening connector thing.  When
I sell my I phones, I normally sell the headphones as well if they
are still working by then.

Kawal. On 18 Jan 2016, at 14:37, Sabahattin Gucukoglu
<listse...@me.com <mailto:listse...@me.com>> wrote:


I’m afraid I just can’t quite bring myself to be sufficiently
moved.  I don’t like planned obsolescence or proprietary standards
either, but I’m also in the market for a new pair of travel
headphones, and I actually would love a digital path between my
iPhone and my headset.  I was not among those poor souls hurt by
the 30-pin to Lightning transition, because I was not quite so
silly as to buy expensive equipment with that connector.  And,
yes, electronic waste is a terrible, terrible thing, but I doubt
Apple will fail to provide a transition for users of the 3.5-mm
plug.  I know it’s painful, but we do need to move forward.

JMO.

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I'm fundraising for RNIB.

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Re: Apple's headphone scam

2016-01-18 Thread George Cassell

I came in a little late on this thread.  Will somebody please tell me who is 
the Democrat and who is the Republican in this debate?


On Jan 18, 2016, at 5:49 AM, 'onlineeagle' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

> None of that explains why they have to abandon the headphone jack. Your point 
> about the M4A encoding quality doesn't really address the issue, which is 
> that ITunes and Apple Music do not provide as good audio quality as other 
> providers. Surely, you are own guessing Apple's reasons for implimenting 
> this, just in the same way as I am. I am however prepared to accept that 
> there may be quite a lot of truth in what you've written my friend. I am 
> however able to take a seemingly more neutral and balanced approach to Apple. 
> I love their accessibility, but I do not appreciate the way they lock 
> customers into their products. I get the feeling that you might be an Apple 
> extremist, unable to find any fault with anything they do, advising people 
> not to speak up against their concerns. If their concerns are raised then at 
> least this helps Apple understand how their customers feel about their 
> productts, which is very valuable for any business. My Apple extremism 
> analogy seems further supported by your email signature. Apple is not a 
> religion; it is a business. There is no need to respond to critiques of said 
> business with suce emotive fervour.
> 
> Well I must say, this is out of character for me. I normally avoid 
> confrontations on email lists and forums, but I'm quite enjoying myself. Hope 
> you are too. 
> 
> .  ,
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On 18 Jan 2016, at 12:09, Ray Foret Jr  wrote:
> 
>> Frankly,  I think you are looking for a reason to abandin Apple anyway.  
>> Sounds like it to me.  I know that audio can both be received by the 
>> lightning jack as well as send it out.  Furthermore, the lightning jack can 
>> render true 5.1 channel sound.  Can your precious 3.5 MM jack do that?  Of 
>> course it cannot.  As for file resolution.  YOu are wrong in stating that 
>> .m4a only goes up to 256KBPS.  I can code it as high as 320KBPS.  I'm not 
>> sure if you bothered to really pay attention to what I said but, Apple is 
>> soon going to role out true high resolution audio.  I'm quite certain they 
>> will have the adapters for older headphone models.  
>> !
>> 
>> Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
>> built-in
>> 
>> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,
>> 
>> Still a very happy Comcast XFinity Voice Guidance, Mac, Verizon Wireless 
>> iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!
>> 
>>> On Jan 18, 2016, at 5:45 AM, 'onlineeagle' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Does seem like a cynical money making scheme. There's no reason why they 
>>> can't have both options. All this means is that potentially people are 
>>> going to find there old headphones redundant. If Apple provide lightning to 
>>> headphone jack adapters then maybe this won't be so bad, but Apple are 
>>> pretty good at trying to corner their customers and force them into staying 
>>> Apple. You can only use ITunes  on iPhones and iPods, not android devices.  
>>> and IBooks can only be accessed on Apple devices. Whereas Kindle books can 
>>> be read on both Amazons own devices as well as iPhones and iPods. You can't 
>>> drag and drop files from your computer to your phone like you can with most 
>>> other phones. You can't get content out of your phone from other apps like 
>>> you can with other phones. As for audio quality: Apple music and ITunes 
>>> only go as high as 256 kbps. If they cared about audio quality then surely 
>>> this wouldn't be the case.  Spotify goes up to 320 kB per second, and 
>>> services like tidal have los less audio quality.
>>> 
>>> Finally, do we even know if a lightning to headphone jack would really be 
>>> possible? I do not want to be forced into buying proprietary headphones. If 
>>> this happens then I'll abandon Apple. I think it's important that people 
>>> let Apple know about their concerns. Maybe we should have done something 
>>> similar about their working conditions for their workers in China, but 
>>> that's another issue. Thanks.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On 18 Jan 2016, at 11:17, Ray Foret Jr  wrote:
>>> 
 I would advise having nothing to do with this.  You are overlooking an 
 obvious benefit;  and it's not just more money for Apple:  rather it's 
 this.  The plain fact is that it's better to lose the headphone jack 
 because you can get much better audio out of the lightning connecter than 
 you can out of the 3.5MM jack.  With the use of the lightning connecter, 
 you can take advantage of the high resolution audio format which Apple is 
 said to be roling out soon.  Also, there are other advantages besides.  
 Don't fall for this emotional knee-jerk

Apple's headphone scam

2016-01-18 Thread Terje Strømberg

Friends,

If the rumours are true, the iPhone 7 will have a non-standard, proprietary 
headphone jack -- meaning piles more cash for Apple and miles more e-waste for 
the rest of us.

Sign this petition to get Apple to stick to the standard headphone jack on the 
iPhone: http://action.sumofus.org/a/iphone-headphone-jack/?sub=mtl

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Re: Apple's headphone scam

2016-01-18 Thread 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries

Back in the day I actually paid good money to "The Source" plus long 
distance to read news from the 84 Olympics at 300 BAUD. That and 
downloading walkthroughs for Zork :)


CB

On 1/18/16 11:46 AM, E.T. wrote:
Not to overlook 300 baud. We are not in that much of a hurry are we 
these days? We can stand to sit and wait a week for a download. can we 
not?


   Its all in the name of progress. If its moving too fast, people can 
jump off at the next stop. There is always the next train.


   78s? There are those who probably swore at the invasion of LPs.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 1/18/2016 8:37 AM, 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries wrote:

So history rhymes a lot. Why would Apple go with that funky 3.5" disk
when I already had boxes of 5 1/4" floppies. Dropping ADB for keyboards
and mice to adopt the unknown USB means I had to get all new devices.
What was so awful expensive about a CD drive that they had to leave it
out of the newer machines? What were they thinking going with the little
3.5mm jack when my 1/4" quadrophonic Koss headphones are still good? In
all these cases Apple just moved on before the consumers really knew
where the trends were going. Wouldn't it be possible that IF Apple
dropped the last bastion of analog I/O they might actually include
headphones with the new fangled connector? For those with nice high-end
headphones a little adaptation might be in line but years from now we'll
look back and wonder what the big deal was. In the end it's all
disposable, just happening sooner than some would like. Sure some niche
or luddite realms linger, but Apple doesn't seem to care as much about
those. Vacuum tubes and vinyl LPs anyone? Yes, those are fighting words
in some camps :)

CB

On 1/18/16 10:36 AM, E.T. wrote:

Change is ever so very difficult yet change is exactly what brings us
to this point in time. With change comes the task of breaking old
obsolete habits and forming new ones.

   For example, look at the mad rush people make to trade in the last
generation of iPhones even if it is perfectly functional, or stand in
line overnight to get that new Apple TV.

   So Apple has very good reason for change. Its simple. People want
change.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 1/18/2016 7:12 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:
Yes, the 3.5 m jack would go bye bye. You'd have to get new 
headphones,
if this wind up being true which would have a lightning plug on the 
end,

like your charger, instead of the rounded 3.5M plug.
Chris.

- Original Message -
*From:* Kawal Gucukoglu <mailto:kgli...@icloud.com>
*To:* Macvisionaries <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
*Sent:* Monday, January 18, 2016 10:01 AM
*Subject:* Re: Apple's headphone scam

Please could someone tell me how headphones could fit in a
lightening adaptor?  You mean there would be a different kind of
thing to put in a socket?

I don’t understand this headphone lightening connector thing.  
When

I sell my I phones, I normally sell the headphones as well if they
are still working by then.

Kawal. On 18 Jan 2016, at 14:37, Sabahattin Gucukoglu
<listse...@me.com <mailto:listse...@me.com>> wrote:


I’m afraid I just can’t quite bring myself to be sufficiently
moved.  I don’t like planned obsolescence or proprietary 
standards

either, but I’m also in the market for a new pair of travel
headphones, and I actually would love a digital path between my
iPhone and my headset.  I was not among those poor souls hurt by
the 30-pin to Lightning transition, because I was not quite so
silly as to buy expensive equipment with that connector. And,
yes, electronic waste is a terrible, terrible thing, but I doubt
Apple will fail to provide a transition for users of the 3.5-mm
plug.  I know it’s painful, but we do need to move forward.

JMO.

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Re: Apple's headphone scam

2016-01-18 Thread Christina C.

Bottom line for me is that I trust apple. I have for years. They say if you are 
an apple fan to never get too attached to anything because apple likes to 
change things up. :) No company is perfect so I don’t expect perfection but I 
do trust that if apple makes a change it will all be just fine. Sometimes 
change is for the better and sometimes it’s a mistake but either way, I’m just 
not worried. The current headphone jack has been around for a long  long 
time…so, who knows? I’m sure that some people freaked out when apple went with 
a smooth touch screen on their phones instead of the tactile num pad. Wow, I 
cannot imagine our society today without our smart phones and their touch 
screens. I remember when  some people thought there was no way that the 
VI/blind community could ever use a touch screen. I’m just saying, relax. :) 
I’m just not worried, not to mention the fact that this is all speculation and 
rumors, we’ll cross that bridge if and when we get to it. If it happens, it 
happens and we will probably deal with the minor inconvenience of getting used 
to the change or maybe even love it. That’s just part of our modern world and 
the way of technology growing and changing. It’s not just apple. :)

Christina

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Re: Apple's headphone scam

2016-01-18 Thread Jonathan Mosen

Hi everyone, while technology must advance, I'm troubled by replacing a 
universal standard with a proprietary connector, and would far rather see an 
industry-wide standard agreed upon, in the same way that USB C was adopted and 
is now being used by Apple on the new Macs.
This has been all over social media, but for those who haven't read it yet, 
here's my blog post on the accessibility ramifications of the removal of the 
headphone jack.
http://mosen.org/index.php/an-iphone-without-a-headphone-jack-the-accessibility-ramifications/
Jonathan Mosen
Mosen Consulting
Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
http://Mosen.org

> On 19/01/2016, at 6:47 AM, 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
> <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> 
> Back in the day I actually paid good money to "The Source" plus long distance 
> to read news from the 84 Olympics at 300 BAUD. That and downloading 
> walkthroughs for Zork :)
> 
> CB
> 
> On 1/18/16 11:46 AM, E.T. wrote:
>> Not to overlook 300 baud. We are not in that much of a hurry are we these 
>> days? We can stand to sit and wait a week for a download. can we not?
>> 
>>   Its all in the name of progress. If its moving too fast, people can jump 
>> off at the next stop. There is always the next train.
>> 
>>   78s? There are those who probably swore at the invasion of LPs.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> 
>> On 1/18/2016 8:37 AM, 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>> So history rhymes a lot. Why would Apple go with that funky 3.5" disk
>>> when I already had boxes of 5 1/4" floppies. Dropping ADB for keyboards
>>> and mice to adopt the unknown USB means I had to get all new devices.
>>> What was so awful expensive about a CD drive that they had to leave it
>>> out of the newer machines? What were they thinking going with the little
>>> 3.5mm jack when my 1/4" quadrophonic Koss headphones are still good? In
>>> all these cases Apple just moved on before the consumers really knew
>>> where the trends were going. Wouldn't it be possible that IF Apple
>>> dropped the last bastion of analog I/O they might actually include
>>> headphones with the new fangled connector? For those with nice high-end
>>> headphones a little adaptation might be in line but years from now we'll
>>> look back and wonder what the big deal was. In the end it's all
>>> disposable, just happening sooner than some would like. Sure some niche
>>> or luddite realms linger, but Apple doesn't seem to care as much about
>>> those. Vacuum tubes and vinyl LPs anyone? Yes, those are fighting words
>>> in some camps :)
>>> 
>>> CB
>>> 
>>> On 1/18/16 10:36 AM, E.T. wrote:
>>>> Change is ever so very difficult yet change is exactly what brings us
>>>> to this point in time. With change comes the task of breaking old
>>>> obsolete habits and forming new ones.
>>>> 
>>>>   For example, look at the mad rush people make to trade in the last
>>>> generation of iPhones even if it is perfectly functional, or stand in
>>>> line overnight to get that new Apple TV.
>>>> 
>>>>   So Apple has very good reason for change. Its simple. People want
>>>> change.
>>>> 
>>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>>> 
>>>> On 1/18/2016 7:12 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:
>>>>> Yes, the 3.5 m jack would go bye bye. You'd have to get new headphones,
>>>>> if this wind up being true which would have a lightning plug on the end,
>>>>> like your charger, instead of the rounded 3.5M plug.
>>>>> Chris.
>>>>> 
>>>>>- Original Message -
>>>>>*From:* Kawal Gucukoglu <mailto:kgli...@icloud.com>
>>>>>*To:* Macvisionaries <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>>>>>*Sent:* Monday, January 18, 2016 10:01 AM
>>>>>*Subject:* Re: Apple's headphone scam
>>>>> 
>>>>>Please could someone tell me how headphones could fit in a
>>>>>lightening adaptor?  You mean there would be a different kind of
>>>>>thing to put in a socket?
>>>>> 
>>>>>I don’t understand this headphone lightening connector thing.  W

Re: Apple's headphone scam

Quite right, well said. All change is positive, and all progress is made in the 
interests of the majority. This is not necessarily a bad thing but it does 
bring up some valid encerns about the expense that might be incurred by people 
having to try and purchase solutions to make their speakers and headphones 
work. Sometimes I connect my phone to my speakers via the headphone jack. I 
don't want to have to buy special equipment such as a new amp and speakers. 
Sometimes change happens in order to help a company to make more money and 
force people to buy more of their products, which they can charge as much as 
they like for because it's proprietary. If they could provide an adapter then 
maybe this ouldn't be such a concern.

As for the democrat republican uestion: I am in the UK where our political 
situation is unquestionably perfect. No, obviously that was a joke.   ..

Sent from my iPhone

> On 18 Jan 2016, at 17:47, 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
> <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> 
> Back in the day I actually paid good money to "The Source" plus long distance 
> to read news from the 84 Olympics at 300 BAUD. That and downloading 
> walkthroughs for Zork :)
> 
> CB
> 
>> On 1/18/16 11:46 AM, E.T. wrote:
>> Not to overlook 300 baud. We are not in that much of a hurry are we these 
>> days? We can stand to sit and wait a week for a download. can we not?
>> 
>>   Its all in the name of progress. If its moving too fast, people can jump 
>> off at the next stop. There is always the next train.
>> 
>>   78s? There are those who probably swore at the invasion of LPs.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> 
>>> On 1/18/2016 8:37 AM, 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>> So history rhymes a lot. Why would Apple go with that funky 3.5" disk
>>> when I already had boxes of 5 1/4" floppies. Dropping ADB for keyboards
>>> and mice to adopt the unknown USB means I had to get all new devices.
>>> What was so awful expensive about a CD drive that they had to leave it
>>> out of the newer machines? What were they thinking going with the little
>>> 3.5mm jack when my 1/4" quadrophonic Koss headphones are still good? In
>>> all these cases Apple just moved on before the consumers really knew
>>> where the trends were going. Wouldn't it be possible that IF Apple
>>> dropped the last bastion of analog I/O they might actually include
>>> headphones with the new fangled connector? For those with nice high-end
>>> headphones a little adaptation might be in line but years from now we'll
>>> look back and wonder what the big deal was. In the end it's all
>>> disposable, just happening sooner than some would like. Sure some niche
>>> or luddite realms linger, but Apple doesn't seem to care as much about
>>> those. Vacuum tubes and vinyl LPs anyone? Yes, those are fighting words
>>> in some camps :)
>>> 
>>> CB
>>> 
>>>> On 1/18/16 10:36 AM, E.T. wrote:
>>>> Change is ever so very difficult yet change is exactly what brings us
>>>> to this point in time. With change comes the task of breaking old
>>>> obsolete habits and forming new ones.
>>>> 
>>>>   For example, look at the mad rush people make to trade in the last
>>>> generation of iPhones even if it is perfectly functional, or stand in
>>>> line overnight to get that new Apple TV.
>>>> 
>>>>   So Apple has very good reason for change. Its simple. People want
>>>> change.
>>>> 
>>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>>> 
>>>>> On 1/18/2016 7:12 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:
>>>>> Yes, the 3.5 m jack would go bye bye. You'd have to get new headphones,
>>>>> if this wind up being true which would have a lightning plug on the end,
>>>>> like your charger, instead of the rounded 3.5M plug.
>>>>> Chris.
>>>>> 
>>>>>- Original Message -
>>>>>*From:* Kawal Gucukoglu <mailto:kgli...@icloud.com>
>>>>>*To:* Macvisionaries <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>>>>>*Sent:* Monday, January 18, 2016 10:01 AM
>>>>>*Subject:* Re: Apple's headphone scam
>>>>> 
>>>>>Please could someone tell me ho

Hi Jonathan,
Fine explanation thanks for sharing. I am not an iphone user, but must
agree that an industry wide solution is much much better. headphones are
a highly personal thing these days, even a fashion statement for some.
Additionally given the needs of an aging population, where is
the practicality of making a port that can create sound quality conflicts,
aids not withstanding?

Karen

On Tue, 19 Jan 2016, Jonathan Mosen wrote:

Hi everyone, while technology must advance, I'm troubled by replacing a
universal standard with a proprietary connector, and would far rather see an
industry-wide standard agreed upon, in the same way that USB C was adopted and
is now being used by Apple on the new Macs.
This has been all over social media, but for those who haven't read it yet,
here's my blog post on the accessibility ramifications of the removal of the
headphone jack.
http://mosen.org/index.php/an-iphone-without-a-headphone-jack-the-accessibility-ramifications/
Jonathan Mosen
Mosen Consulting
Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
http://Mosen.org

On 19/01/2016, at 6:47 AM, 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries
<macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Back in the day I actually paid good money to "The Source" plus long distance
to read news from the 84 Olympics at 300 BAUD. That and downloading walkthroughs for Zork
:)

On 1/18/16 11:46 AM, E.T. wrote:

Not to overlook 300 baud. We are not in that much of a hurry are we these days?
We can stand to sit and wait a week for a download. can we not?

Its all in the name of progress. If its moving too fast, people can jump off
at the next stop. There is always the next train.

78s? There are those who probably swore at the invasion of LPs.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 1/18/2016 8:37 AM, 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries wrote:

So history rhymes a lot. Why would Apple go with that funky 3.5" disk
when I already had boxes of 5 1/4" floppies. Dropping ADB for keyboards
and mice to adopt the unknown USB means I had to get all new devices.
What was so awful expensive about a CD drive that they had to leave it
out of the newer machines? What were they thinking going with the little
3.5mm jack when my 1/4" quadrophonic Koss headphones are still good? In
all these cases Apple just moved on before the consumers really knew
where the trends were going. Wouldn't it be possible that IF Apple
dropped the last bastion of analog I/O they might actually include
headphones with the new fangled connector? For those with nice high-end
headphones a little adaptation might be in line but years from now we'll
look back and wonder what the big deal was. In the end it's all
disposable, just happening sooner than some would like. Sure some niche
or luddite realms linger, but Apple doesn't seem to care as much about
those. Vacuum tubes and vinyl LPs anyone? Yes, those are fighting words
in some camps :)

On 1/18/16 10:36 AM, E.T. wrote:

Change is ever so very difficult yet change is exactly what brings us
to this point in time. With change comes the task of breaking old
obsolete habits and forming new ones.

For example, look at the mad rush people make to trade in the last
generation of iPhones even if it is perfectly functional, or stand in
line overnight to get that new Apple TV.

So Apple has very good reason for change. Its simple. People want
change.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 1/18/2016 7:12 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

Yes, the 3.5 m jack would go bye bye. You'd have to get new headphones,
if this wind up being true which would have a lightning plug on the end,
like your charger, instead of the rounded 3.5M plug.
Chris.

- Original Message -
*From:* Kawal Gucukoglu <mailto:kgli...@icloud.com>
*To:* Macvisionaries <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
*Sent:* Monday, January 18, 2016 10:01 AM
*Subject:* Re: Apple's headphone scam

Please could someone tell me how headphones could fit in a
lightening adaptor? You mean there would be a different kind of
thing to put in a socket?

I don???t understand this headphone lightening connector thing. When
I sell my I phones, I normally sell the headphones as well if they
are still working by then.

Kawal. On 18 Jan 2016, at 14:37, Sabahattin Gucukoglu
<listse...@me.com <mailto:listse...@me.com>> wrote:

I???m afraid I just can???t quite bring myself to be sufficiently
moved. I don???t like planned obsolescence or proprietary standards
either, but I???m also in the market for a new pair of travel
headphones, and I actually would love a digital path between my
iPhone and my headset. I was not among those poor souls hurt by
the 30-pin to Lightning tr

Re: Apple's headphone scam

I think the issue with Apple “Moving on” is that the consumer is never ready 
for it.  In a sense, that’s a testament to Apple’s forward-thinking approach, 
but it also means that they are the first to draw the fire for having the 
audacity to bring something to market without standardising it by committee 
first, which I legitimately believe has its drawbacks.  I do sometimes wish 
standards were more often on the table, for sure.  And it’s not as if Apple 
doesn’t enjoy the closed, vertical approach, because it helps their bottom line 
(remember FireWire?).  And sometimes Apple makes false moves: dropping optical 
has thus far been a boon for laptops but has not seen quite as much love on the 
desktop and AIO side (iMac, now the thinnest desktop you’ll ever use, if you 
don’t mind that you can’t play your DVDs in it or remote-control it any more).

So, I understand the anger and criticism.  I also confidently predict that 
history will repeat itself, and in a decade or so we’ll all be fondly 
remembering the 3.5 mm plug and the good old days. :)

As for my hopes, I hope that Apple will not fragment the market and that an 
open standard will emerge.  It is either that, or the standard in question 
becomes Lightning.  Otherwise, in a decade we’ll all be remembering with 
fondness the days when one could plug ones audio equipment into any available 
headphone or mini-SPDIF socket.

I wonder why Apple did not replace the headphone socket with a mini-SPDIF 
socket?  Now *that* would have been a smart move …

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Re: Apple's headphone scam

Great blog post Jonathan. Thanks.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 18 Jan 2016, at 18:17, Jonathan Mosen <jmo...@mosen.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone, while technology must advance, I'm troubled by replacing a 
> universal standard with a proprietary connector, and would far rather see an 
> industry-wide standard agreed upon, in the same way that USB C was adopted 
> and is now being used by Apple on the new Macs.
> This has been all over social media, but for those who haven't read it yet, 
> here's my blog post on the accessibility ramifications of the removal of the 
> headphone jack.
> http://mosen.org/index.php/an-iphone-without-a-headphone-jack-the-accessibility-ramifications/
> Jonathan Mosen
> Mosen Consulting
> Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
> http://Mosen.org
> 
>> On 19/01/2016, at 6:47 AM, 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
>> <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Back in the day I actually paid good money to "The Source" plus long 
>> distance to read news from the 84 Olympics at 300 BAUD. That and downloading 
>> walkthroughs for Zork :)
>> 
>> CB
>> 
>>> On 1/18/16 11:46 AM, E.T. wrote:
>>> Not to overlook 300 baud. We are not in that much of a hurry are we these 
>>> days? We can stand to sit and wait a week for a download. can we not?
>>> 
>>>   Its all in the name of progress. If its moving too fast, people can jump 
>>> off at the next stop. There is always the next train.
>>> 
>>>   78s? There are those who probably swore at the invasion of LPs.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
>>>> On 1/18/2016 8:37 AM, 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>>> So history rhymes a lot. Why would Apple go with that funky 3.5" disk
>>>> when I already had boxes of 5 1/4" floppies. Dropping ADB for keyboards
>>>> and mice to adopt the unknown USB means I had to get all new devices.
>>>> What was so awful expensive about a CD drive that they had to leave it
>>>> out of the newer machines? What were they thinking going with the little
>>>> 3.5mm jack when my 1/4" quadrophonic Koss headphones are still good? In
>>>> all these cases Apple just moved on before the consumers really knew
>>>> where the trends were going. Wouldn't it be possible that IF Apple
>>>> dropped the last bastion of analog I/O they might actually include
>>>> headphones with the new fangled connector? For those with nice high-end
>>>> headphones a little adaptation might be in line but years from now we'll
>>>> look back and wonder what the big deal was. In the end it's all
>>>> disposable, just happening sooner than some would like. Sure some niche
>>>> or luddite realms linger, but Apple doesn't seem to care as much about
>>>> those. Vacuum tubes and vinyl LPs anyone? Yes, those are fighting words
>>>> in some camps :)
>>>> 
>>>> CB
>>>> 
>>>>> On 1/18/16 10:36 AM, E.T. wrote:
>>>>> Change is ever so very difficult yet change is exactly what brings us
>>>>> to this point in time. With change comes the task of breaking old
>>>>> obsolete habits and forming new ones.
>>>>> 
>>>>>   For example, look at the mad rush people make to trade in the last
>>>>> generation of iPhones even if it is perfectly functional, or stand in
>>>>> line overnight to get that new Apple TV.
>>>>> 
>>>>>   So Apple has very good reason for change. Its simple. People want
>>>>> change.
>>>>> 
>>>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 1/18/2016 7:12 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:
>>>>>> Yes, the 3.5 m jack would go bye bye. You'd have to get new headphones,
>>>>>> if this wind up being true which would have a lightning plug on the end,
>>>>>> like your charger, instead of the rounded 3.5M plug.
>>>>>> Chris.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>- Original Message -
>>>>>>*From:* Kawal Gucukoglu <mailto:kgli...@icloud.com>
>>>>>>*To:* Macvisionaries <mailto:macvisionaries@google

Re: Apple's headphone scam

   Oh Zork! Is it still alive? I never got far in it but twas a neat 
text advcenture game.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 1/18/2016 9:47 AM, 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries wrote:

Back in the day I actually paid good money to "The Source" plus long
distance to read news from the 84 Olympics at 300 BAUD. That and
downloading walkthroughs for Zork :)

CB

On 1/18/16 11:46 AM, E.T. wrote:

Not to overlook 300 baud. We are not in that much of a hurry are we
these days? We can stand to sit and wait a week for a download. can we
not?

   Its all in the name of progress. If its moving too fast, people can
jump off at the next stop. There is always the next train.

   78s? There are those who probably swore at the invasion of LPs.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 1/18/2016 8:37 AM, 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries wrote:

So history rhymes a lot. Why would Apple go with that funky 3.5" disk
when I already had boxes of 5 1/4" floppies. Dropping ADB for keyboards
and mice to adopt the unknown USB means I had to get all new devices.
What was so awful expensive about a CD drive that they had to leave it
out of the newer machines? What were they thinking going with the little
3.5mm jack when my 1/4" quadrophonic Koss headphones are still good? In
all these cases Apple just moved on before the consumers really knew
where the trends were going. Wouldn't it be possible that IF Apple
dropped the last bastion of analog I/O they might actually include
headphones with the new fangled connector? For those with nice high-end
headphones a little adaptation might be in line but years from now we'll
look back and wonder what the big deal was. In the end it's all
disposable, just happening sooner than some would like. Sure some niche
or luddite realms linger, but Apple doesn't seem to care as much about
those. Vacuum tubes and vinyl LPs anyone? Yes, those are fighting words
in some camps :)

CB

On 1/18/16 10:36 AM, E.T. wrote:

Change is ever so very difficult yet change is exactly what brings us
to this point in time. With change comes the task of breaking old
obsolete habits and forming new ones.

   For example, look at the mad rush people make to trade in the last
generation of iPhones even if it is perfectly functional, or stand in
line overnight to get that new Apple TV.

   So Apple has very good reason for change. Its simple. People want
change.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 1/18/2016 7:12 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

Yes, the 3.5 m jack would go bye bye. You'd have to get new
headphones,
if this wind up being true which would have a lightning plug on the
end,
like your charger, instead of the rounded 3.5M plug.
Chris.

- Original Message -
*From:* Kawal Gucukoglu <mailto:kgli...@icloud.com>
*To:* Macvisionaries <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
*Sent:* Monday, January 18, 2016 10:01 AM
*Subject:* Re: Apple's headphone scam

Please could someone tell me how headphones could fit in a
lightening adaptor?  You mean there would be a different kind of
thing to put in a socket?

I don’t understand this headphone lightening connector thing. When
I sell my I phones, I normally sell the headphones as well if they
are still working by then.

Kawal. On 18 Jan 2016, at 14:37, Sabahattin Gucukoglu
<listse...@me.com <mailto:listse...@me.com>> wrote:


I’m afraid I just can’t quite bring myself to be sufficiently
moved.  I don’t like planned obsolescence or proprietary
standards
either, but I’m also in the market for a new pair of travel
headphones, and I actually would love a digital path between my
iPhone and my headset.  I was not among those poor souls hurt by
the 30-pin to Lightning transition, because I was not quite so
silly as to buy expensive equipment with that connector. And,
yes, electronic waste is a terrible, terrible thing, but I doubt
Apple will fail to provide a transition for users of the 3.5-mm
plug.  I know it’s painful, but we do need to move forward.

JMO.

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Re: Apple's headphone scam

2016-01-18 Thread Ray Foret Jr

I would advise having nothing to do with this.  You are overlooking an obvious 
benefit;  and it's not just more money for Apple:  rather it's this.  The plain 
fact is that it's better to lose the headphone jack because you can get much 
better audio out of the lightning connecter than you can out of the 3.5MM jack. 
 With the use of the lightning connecter, you can take advantage of the high 
resolution audio format which Apple is said to be roling out soon.  Also, there 
are other advantages besides.  Don't fall for this emotional knee-jerk nonsense.


!

Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
built-in

Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,

Still a very happy Comcast XFinity Voice Guidance, Mac, Verizon Wireless 
iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!

> On Jan 18, 2016, at 4:54 AM, Terje Strømberg  wrote:
> 
> Friends,
> 
> If the rumours are true, the iPhone 7 will have a non-standard, proprietary 
> headphone jack -- meaning piles more cash for Apple and miles more e-waste 
> for the rest of us.
> 
> Sign this petition to get Apple to stick to the standard headphone jack on 
> the iPhone: http://action.sumofus.org/a/iphone-headphone-jack/?sub=mtl
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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Re: Apple's headphone scam

Does seem like a cynical money making scheme. There's no reason why they can't 
have both options. All this means is that potentially people are going to find 
there old headphones redundant. If Apple provide lightning to headphone jack 
adapters then maybe this won't be so bad, but Apple are pretty good at trying 
to corner their customers and force them into staying Apple. You can only use 
ITunes  on iPhones and iPods, not android devices.  and IBooks can only be 
accessed on Apple devices. Whereas Kindle books can be read on both Amazons own 
devices as well as iPhones and iPods. You can't drag and drop files from your 
computer to your phone like you can with most other phones. You can't get 
content out of your phone from other apps like you can with other phones. As 
for audio quality: Apple music and ITunes only go as high as 256 kbps. If they 
cared about audio quality then surely this wouldn't be the case.  Spotify goes 
up to 320 kB per second, and services like tidal have los less audio quality.

Finally, do we even know if a lightning to headphone jack would really be 
possible? I do not want to be forced into buying proprietary headphones. If 
this happens then I'll abandon Apple. I think it's important that people let 
Apple know about their concerns. Maybe we should have done something similar 
about their working conditions for their workers in China, but that's another 
issue. Thanks.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 18 Jan 2016, at 11:17, Ray Foret Jr  wrote:
> 
> I would advise having nothing to do with this.  You are overlooking an 
> obvious benefit;  and it's not just more money for Apple:  rather it's this.  
> The plain fact is that it's better to lose the headphone jack because you can 
> get much better audio out of the lightning connecter than you can out of the 
> 3.5MM jack.  With the use of the lightning connecter, you can take advantage 
> of the high resolution audio format which Apple is said to be roling out 
> soon.  Also, there are other advantages besides.  Don't fall for this 
> emotional knee-jerk nonsense.
> 
> 
> !
> 
> Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
> built-in
> 
> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,
> 
> Still a very happy Comcast XFinity Voice Guidance, Mac, Verizon Wireless 
> iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!
> 
>> On Jan 18, 2016, at 4:54 AM, Terje Strømberg  wrote:
>> 
>> Friends,
>> 
>> If the rumours are true, the iPhone 7 will have a non-standard, proprietary 
>> headphone jack -- meaning piles more cash for Apple and miles more e-waste 
>> for the rest of us.
>> 
>> Sign this petition to get Apple to stick to the standard headphone jack on 
>> the iPhone: http://action.sumofus.org/a/iphone-headphone-jack/?sub=mtl
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
> -- 
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> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
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>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
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>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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If you have any questions or concerns

Re: Apple's headphone scam

2016-01-18 Thread Ray Foret Jr

Frankly,  I think you are looking for a reason to abandin Apple anyway.  Sounds 
like it to me.  I know that audio can both be received by the lightning jack as 
well as send it out.  Furthermore, the lightning jack can render true 5.1 
channel sound.  Can your precious 3.5 MM jack do that?  Of course it cannot.  
As for file resolution.  YOu are wrong in stating that .m4a only goes up to 
256KBPS.  I can code it as high as 320KBPS.  I'm not sure if you bothered to 
really pay attention to what I said but, Apple is soon going to role out true 
high resolution audio.  I'm quite certain they will have the adapters for older 
headphone models.  
!

Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
built-in

Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,

Still a very happy Comcast XFinity Voice Guidance, Mac, Verizon Wireless 
iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!

> On Jan 18, 2016, at 5:45 AM, 'onlineeagle' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Does seem like a cynical money making scheme. There's no reason why they 
> can't have both options. All this means is that potentially people are going 
> to find there old headphones redundant. If Apple provide lightning to 
> headphone jack adapters then maybe this won't be so bad, but Apple are pretty 
> good at trying to corner their customers and force them into staying Apple. 
> You can only use ITunes  on iPhones and iPods, not android devices.  and 
> IBooks can only be accessed on Apple devices. Whereas Kindle books can be 
> read on both Amazons own devices as well as iPhones and iPods. You can't drag 
> and drop files from your computer to your phone like you can with most other 
> phones. You can't get content out of your phone from other apps like you can 
> with other phones. As for audio quality: Apple music and ITunes only go as 
> high as 256 kbps. If they cared about audio quality then surely this wouldn't 
> be the case.  Spotify goes up to 320 kB per second, and services like tidal 
> have los less audio quality.
> 
> Finally, do we even know if a lightning to headphone jack would really be 
> possible? I do not want to be forced into buying proprietary headphones. If 
> this happens then I'll abandon Apple. I think it's important that people let 
> Apple know about their concerns. Maybe we should have done something similar 
> about their working conditions for their workers in China, but that's another 
> issue. Thanks.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On 18 Jan 2016, at 11:17, Ray Foret Jr  > wrote:
> 
>> I would advise having nothing to do with this.  You are overlooking an 
>> obvious benefit;  and it's not just more money for Apple:  rather it's this. 
>>  The plain fact is that it's better to lose the headphone jack because you 
>> can get much better audio out of the lightning connecter than you can out of 
>> the 3.5MM jack.  With the use of the lightning connecter, you can take 
>> advantage of the high resolution audio format which Apple is said to be 
>> roling out soon.  Also, there are other advantages besides.  Don't fall for 
>> this emotional knee-jerk nonsense.
>> 
>> 
>> !
>> 
>> Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
>> built-in
>> 
>> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,
>> 
>> Still a very happy Comcast XFinity Voice Guidance, Mac, Verizon Wireless 
>> iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!
>> 
>>> On Jan 18, 2016, at 4:54 AM, Terje Strømberg >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Friends,
>>> 
>>> If the rumours are true, the iPhone 7 will have a non-standard, proprietary 
>>> headphone jack -- meaning piles more cash for Apple and miles more e-waste 
>>> for the rest of us.
>>> 
>>> Sign this petition to get Apple to stick to the standard headphone jack on 
>>> the iPhone: http://action.sumofus.org/a/iphone-headphone-jack/?sub=mtl 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>>> 
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
>>>

Re: Apple's headphone scam

2016-01-18 Thread 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries

So history rhymes a lot. Why would Apple go with that funky 3.5" disk 
when I already had boxes of 5 1/4" floppies. Dropping ADB for keyboards 
and mice to adopt the unknown USB means I had to get all new devices. 
What was so awful expensive about a CD drive that they had to leave it 
out of the newer machines? What were they thinking going with the little 
3.5mm jack when my 1/4" quadrophonic Koss headphones are still good? In 
all these cases Apple just moved on before the consumers really knew 
where the trends were going. Wouldn't it be possible that IF Apple 
dropped the last bastion of analog I/O they might actually include 
headphones with the new fangled connector? For those with nice high-end 
headphones a little adaptation might be in line but years from now we'll 
look back and wonder what the big deal was. In the end it's all 
disposable, just happening sooner than some would like. Sure some niche 
or luddite realms linger, but Apple doesn't seem to care as much about 
those. Vacuum tubes and vinyl LPs anyone? Yes, those are fighting words 
in some camps :)


CB

On 1/18/16 10:36 AM, E.T. wrote:
Change is ever so very difficult yet change is exactly what brings us 
to this point in time. With change comes the task of breaking old 
obsolete habits and forming new ones.


   For example, look at the mad rush people make to trade in the last 
generation of iPhones even if it is perfectly functional, or stand in 
line overnight to get that new Apple TV.


   So Apple has very good reason for change. Its simple. People want 
change.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 1/18/2016 7:12 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

Yes, the 3.5 m jack would go bye bye. You'd have to get new headphones,
if this wind up being true which would have a lightning plug on the end,
like your charger, instead of the rounded 3.5M plug.
Chris.

- Original Message -
*From:* Kawal Gucukoglu <mailto:kgli...@icloud.com>
*To:* Macvisionaries <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
*Sent:* Monday, January 18, 2016 10:01 AM
*Subject:* Re: Apple's headphone scam

Please could someone tell me how headphones could fit in a
lightening adaptor?  You mean there would be a different kind of
thing to put in a socket?

I don’t understand this headphone lightening connector thing.  When
I sell my I phones, I normally sell the headphones as well if they
are still working by then.

Kawal. On 18 Jan 2016, at 14:37, Sabahattin Gucukoglu
<listse...@me.com <mailto:listse...@me.com>> wrote:


I’m afraid I just can’t quite bring myself to be sufficiently
moved.  I don’t like planned obsolescence or proprietary standards
either, but I’m also in the market for a new pair of travel
headphones, and I actually would love a digital path between my
iPhone and my headset.  I was not among those poor souls hurt by
the 30-pin to Lightning transition, because I was not quite so
silly as to buy expensive equipment with that connector. And,
yes, electronic waste is a terrible, terrible thing, but I doubt
Apple will fail to provide a transition for users of the 3.5-mm
plug.  I know it’s painful, but we do need to move forward.

JMO.

--
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Visionaries list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this
list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please
contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on
the list itself.

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<mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>

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Re: Apple's headphone scam

On 18 Jan 2016, at 15:44, George Cassell  wrote:
> I came in a little late on this thread.  Will somebody please tell me who is 
> the Democrat and who is the Republican in this debate?

Never mind that—where’s the link to Nazi Germany on this thread?

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Re: Apple's headphone scam

   Not to overlook 300 baud. We are not in that much of a hurry are we 
these days? We can stand to sit and wait a week for a download. can we not?


   Its all in the name of progress. If its moving too fast, people can 
jump off at the next stop. There is always the next train.


   78s? There are those who probably swore at the invasion of LPs.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 1/18/2016 8:37 AM, 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries wrote:

So history rhymes a lot. Why would Apple go with that funky 3.5" disk
when I already had boxes of 5 1/4" floppies. Dropping ADB for keyboards
and mice to adopt the unknown USB means I had to get all new devices.
What was so awful expensive about a CD drive that they had to leave it
out of the newer machines? What were they thinking going with the little
3.5mm jack when my 1/4" quadrophonic Koss headphones are still good? In
all these cases Apple just moved on before the consumers really knew
where the trends were going. Wouldn't it be possible that IF Apple
dropped the last bastion of analog I/O they might actually include
headphones with the new fangled connector? For those with nice high-end
headphones a little adaptation might be in line but years from now we'll
look back and wonder what the big deal was. In the end it's all
disposable, just happening sooner than some would like. Sure some niche
or luddite realms linger, but Apple doesn't seem to care as much about
those. Vacuum tubes and vinyl LPs anyone? Yes, those are fighting words
in some camps :)

CB

On 1/18/16 10:36 AM, E.T. wrote:

Change is ever so very difficult yet change is exactly what brings us
to this point in time. With change comes the task of breaking old
obsolete habits and forming new ones.

   For example, look at the mad rush people make to trade in the last
generation of iPhones even if it is perfectly functional, or stand in
line overnight to get that new Apple TV.

   So Apple has very good reason for change. Its simple. People want
change.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 1/18/2016 7:12 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

Yes, the 3.5 m jack would go bye bye. You'd have to get new headphones,
if this wind up being true which would have a lightning plug on the end,
like your charger, instead of the rounded 3.5M plug.
Chris.

- Original Message -
*From:* Kawal Gucukoglu <mailto:kgli...@icloud.com>
*To:* Macvisionaries <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
*Sent:* Monday, January 18, 2016 10:01 AM
*Subject:* Re: Apple's headphone scam

Please could someone tell me how headphones could fit in a
lightening adaptor?  You mean there would be a different kind of
thing to put in a socket?

I don’t understand this headphone lightening connector thing.  When
I sell my I phones, I normally sell the headphones as well if they
are still working by then.

Kawal. On 18 Jan 2016, at 14:37, Sabahattin Gucukoglu
<listse...@me.com <mailto:listse...@me.com>> wrote:


I’m afraid I just can’t quite bring myself to be sufficiently
moved.  I don’t like planned obsolescence or proprietary standards
either, but I’m also in the market for a new pair of travel
headphones, and I actually would love a digital path between my
iPhone and my headset.  I was not among those poor souls hurt by
the 30-pin to Lightning transition, because I was not quite so
silly as to buy expensive equipment with that connector. And,
yes, electronic waste is a terrible, terrible thing, but I doubt
Apple will fail to provide a transition for users of the 3.5-mm
plug.  I know it’s painful, but we do need to move forward.

JMO.

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Re: Apple's headphone scam

2016-01-18 Thread David Chittenden

According to various rumour sources, there are a few reasons Apple is likely to 
abandon the headset jack.

Thin iPhone - the iPhone is as thin as it can be currently. Apple likes thin 
devices, and so do several 'people I have asked. The jack needs to go for any 
thinner to be possible.

Water resistance - Apparently, Apple is looking to make a waterproof device. 
they reportedly can make the lightning port waterproof, but not the headset 
jack.

End-to-end display - Apple has pattented a way to embed a fingerprint reader 
across the bottom of the display, so no more home button. The display 
technology requires the space that the headset jack is currently occupying.

Reportedly, Apple has a lightning to 3.5 mm headset adaptor. However, there are 
some rumours claiming Apple will replace the lightning port for the USB port 
found in the new MacBook.

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

> On 19 Jan 2016, at 02:49, 'onlineeagle' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> None of that explains why they have to abandon the headphone jack. Your point 
> about the M4A encoding quality doesn't really address the issue, which is 
> that ITunes and Apple Music do not provide as good audio quality as other 
> providers. Surely, you are own guessing Apple's reasons for implimenting 
> this, just in the same way as I am. I am however prepared to accept that 
> there may be quite a lot of truth in what you've written my friend. I am 
> however able to take a seemingly more neutral and balanced approach to Apple. 
> I love their accessibility, but I do not appreciate the way they lock 
> customers into their products. I get the feeling that you might be an Apple 
> extremist, unable to find any fault with anything they do, advising people 
> not to speak up against their concerns. If their concerns are raised then at 
> least this helps Apple understand how their customers feel about their 
> productts, which is very valuable for any business. My Apple extremism 
> analogy seems further supported by your email signature. Apple is not a 
> religion; it is a business. There is no need to respond to critiques of said 
> business with suce emotive fervour.
> 
> Well I must say, this is out of character for me. I normally avoid 
> confrontations on email lists and forums, but I'm quite enjoying myself. Hope 
> you are too. 
> 
> .  ,
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 18 Jan 2016, at 12:09, Ray Foret Jr  wrote:
>> 
>> Frankly,  I think you are looking for a reason to abandin Apple anyway.  
>> Sounds like it to me.  I know that audio can both be received by the 
>> lightning jack as well as send it out.  Furthermore, the lightning jack can 
>> render true 5.1 channel sound.  Can your precious 3.5 MM jack do that?  Of 
>> course it cannot.  As for file resolution.  YOu are wrong in stating that 
>> .m4a only goes up to 256KBPS.  I can code it as high as 320KBPS.  I'm not 
>> sure if you bothered to really pay attention to what I said but, Apple is 
>> soon going to role out true high resolution audio.  I'm quite certain they 
>> will have the adapters for older headphone models.  
>> !
>> 
>> Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
>> built-in
>> 
>> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,
>> 
>> Still a very happy Comcast XFinity Voice Guidance, Mac, Verizon Wireless 
>> iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!
>> 
>>> On Jan 18, 2016, at 5:45 AM, 'onlineeagle' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Does seem like a cynical money making scheme. There's no reason why they 
>>> can't have both options. All this means is that potentially people are 
>>> going to find there old headphones redundant. If Apple provide lightning to 
>>> headphone jack adapters then maybe this won't be so bad, but Apple are 
>>> pretty good at trying to corner their customers and force them into staying 
>>> Apple. You can only use ITunes  on iPhones and iPods, not android devices.  
>>> and IBooks can only be accessed on Apple devices. Whereas Kindle books can 
>>> be read on both Amazons own devices as well as iPhones and iPods. You can't 
>>> drag and drop files from your computer to your phone like you can with most 
>>> other phones. You can't get content out of your phone from other apps like 
>>> you can with other phones. As for audio quality: Apple music and ITunes 
>>> only go as high as 256 kbps. If they cared about audio quality then surely 
>>> this wouldn't be the case.  Spotify goes up to 320 kB per second, and 
>>> services like tidal have los less audio quality.
>>> 
>>> Finally, do we even know if a lightning to headphone jack would really be 
>>> possible? I do not want to be forced into buying proprietary headphones. If 
>>> this happens then I'll abandon Apple. I think it's important that people 
>>> let Apple know about their concerns. Maybe we should

Re: Apple's headphone scam

2016-01-18 Thread 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries

E.T.  wrote:
>Oh Zork! Is it still alive? I never got far in it but twas a neat text
> advcenture game.

If I remember correctly, it was made freely available by the current copyright
holder. You should be able to use it under OS X in the terminal with an
interpreter program such as Frotz, which is designed to run Infocom story
files.

Be careful to check the copyright status before downloading Zork however.

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Re: Apple's headphone scam

   And there is the Lost Treasures iOS app which was last updated in 
2013 but last I read, it was not accessible.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 1/18/2016 11:17 AM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries wrote:

E.T.  wrote:

Oh Zork! Is it still alive? I never got far in it but twas a neat text
advcenture game.



If I remember correctly, it was made freely available by the current copyright
holder. You should be able to use it under OS X in the terminal with an
interpreter program such as Frotz, which is designed to run Infocom story
files.

Be careful to check the copyright status before downloading Zork however.



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Re: Apple's headphone scam

2016-01-18 Thread Christina C.

Hmm, I’m not convinced that making the thinnest iPhone ever is their priority. 
The newest iPhone is a tad thicker than the previous year and I personally 
think that a better battery should be the priority over a thinner phone. That’s 
just me though. I believe their are other waterproof phones on the market. Do 
these have regular headphone jacks. My philosophy is not to stress about it 
because rumors and speculation are just that. I guess only time will tell what 
apple’s “secret” plans are. :)

Christina
> On Jan 18, 2016, at 12:12 PM, David Chittenden  wrote:
> 
> According to various rumour sources, there are a few reasons Apple is likely 
> to abandon the headset jack.
> 
> Thin iPhone - the iPhone is as thin as it can be currently. Apple likes thin 
> devices, and so do several 'people I have asked. The jack needs to go for any 
> thinner to be possible.
> 
> Water resistance - Apparently, Apple is looking to make a waterproof device. 
> they reportedly can make the lightning port waterproof, but not the headset 
> jack.
> 
> End-to-end display - Apple has pattented a way to embed a fingerprint reader 
> across the bottom of the display, so no more home button. The display 
> technology requires the space that the headset jack is currently occupying.
> 
> Reportedly, Apple has a lightning to 3.5 mm headset adaptor. However, there 
> are some rumours claiming Apple will replace the lightning port for the USB 
> port found in the new MacBook.
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com 
> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
> Sent from my iPhone

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Re: Apple's headphone scam

2016-01-18 Thread 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries

It's been a while but, last I checked, the Zoom app to play various 
Infocom games was fairly accessible.


http://www.logicalshift.co.uk/unix/zoom/

CB

On 1/18/16 1:56 PM, E.T. wrote:
   Oh Zork! Is it still alive? I never got far in it but twas a neat 
text advcenture game.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 1/18/2016 9:47 AM, 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries wrote:

Back in the day I actually paid good money to "The Source" plus long
distance to read news from the 84 Olympics at 300 BAUD. That and
downloading walkthroughs for Zork :)

CB

On 1/18/16 11:46 AM, E.T. wrote:

Not to overlook 300 baud. We are not in that much of a hurry are we
these days? We can stand to sit and wait a week for a download. can we
not?

   Its all in the name of progress. If its moving too fast, people can
jump off at the next stop. There is always the next train.

   78s? There are those who probably swore at the invasion of LPs.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 1/18/2016 8:37 AM, 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries wrote:

So history rhymes a lot. Why would Apple go with that funky 3.5" disk
when I already had boxes of 5 1/4" floppies. Dropping ADB for 
keyboards

and mice to adopt the unknown USB means I had to get all new devices.
What was so awful expensive about a CD drive that they had to leave it
out of the newer machines? What were they thinking going with the 
little
3.5mm jack when my 1/4" quadrophonic Koss headphones are still 
good? In

all these cases Apple just moved on before the consumers really knew
where the trends were going. Wouldn't it be possible that IF Apple
dropped the last bastion of analog I/O they might actually include
headphones with the new fangled connector? For those with nice 
high-end
headphones a little adaptation might be in line but years from now 
we'll

look back and wonder what the big deal was. In the end it's all
disposable, just happening sooner than some would like. Sure some 
niche

or luddite realms linger, but Apple doesn't seem to care as much about
those. Vacuum tubes and vinyl LPs anyone? Yes, those are fighting 
words

in some camps :)

CB

On 1/18/16 10:36 AM, E.T. wrote:

Change is ever so very difficult yet change is exactly what brings us
to this point in time. With change comes the task of breaking old
obsolete habits and forming new ones.

   For example, look at the mad rush people make to trade in the last
generation of iPhones even if it is perfectly functional, or stand in
line overnight to get that new Apple TV.

   So Apple has very good reason for change. Its simple. People want
change.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 1/18/2016 7:12 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

Yes, the 3.5 m jack would go bye bye. You'd have to get new
headphones,
if this wind up being true which would have a lightning plug on the
end,
like your charger, instead of the rounded 3.5M plug.
Chris.

- Original Message -
*From:* Kawal Gucukoglu <mailto:kgli...@icloud.com>
*To:* Macvisionaries <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
*Sent:* Monday, January 18, 2016 10:01 AM
*Subject:* Re: Apple's headphone scam

Please could someone tell me how headphones could fit in a
lightening adaptor?  You mean there would be a different kind of
thing to put in a socket?

I don’t understand this headphone lightening connector thing. 
When
I sell my I phones, I normally sell the headphones as well if 
they

are still working by then.

Kawal. On 18 Jan 2016, at 14:37, Sabahattin Gucukoglu
<listse...@me.com <mailto:listse...@me.com>> wrote:


I’m afraid I just can’t quite bring myself to be sufficiently
moved.  I don’t like planned obsolescence or proprietary
standards
either, but I’m also in the market for a new pair of travel
headphones, and I actually would love a digital path between my
iPhone and my headset.  I was not among those poor souls 
hurt by

the 30-pin to Lightning transition, because I was not quite so
silly as to buy expensive equipment with that connector. And,
yes, electronic waste is a terrible, terrible thing, but I 
doubt

Apple will fail to provide a transition for users of the 3.5-mm
plug.  I know it’s painful, but we do need to move forward.

JMO.

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Re: Apple's headphone scam

I don’t suppose Activision will mind too terribly if you buy the Lost Treasures 
app, then unpack it and extract the game data files, which you can then play in 
Frotz.  It would be the honest thing to do if you’ve paid for them.

But, honestly, these games have been so thoroughly treasured and looted by now, 
it’s hard to imagine how you would have any trouble getting them at all, even 
if you could not buy or use the app.  Moreover the app is somewhat incomplete.  
See this thread:
http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?id=10566

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Re: Apple's headphone scam

True, I forgot about the electical charger adapters.  I'm glad you mentioned 
that, E.T, as I probably should find a way to get one, seeing I do plan in 
the future, maybe in the next year or two to visit Scotland eventually.


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "E.T." <ancient.ali...@icloud.com>

To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: Apple's headphone scam


   But if you go to Europe with AC powered devices in tow, you do need
adapters. And that concept is exactly what will make this change by
Apple quite edible if in fact it is true.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 1/18/2016 1:24 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

Wait,

I may a misunderstood, but are you saying that if I went to Europe, I'd
have to get a lightning to micro USB adapter to charge my phone?

Chris.

- Original Message - From: "Sabahattin Gucukoglu"
<listse...@me.com>
To: "'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries" <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: Apple's headphone scam


Standards are good.  I love standards.

Europe standardised on Micro USB so iPhone users could charge from many
points.  Apple’s response was to make us an adaptor, at cost, which is
not available outside the EEA.  This rather negated its purpose, of
course; now you had to remember to bring the adaptor with your phone.

The Lightning connector itself uses an authentication process, now
broken, so that the manufacturers might bend over.  The consumer gets
part of that cost, of course, and Apple now has control over the supply
chain.

However, I’m reluctant to ascribe motives without hard evidence (except
when I’m ranting, natch).  The fact is that Lightning is superior to
Micro USB.  On the other feeler, it’s less clear what the reasons are
for requiring authentication of the Lightning adaptors themselves, but
sadly, the closest logical reason is money.  When Apple delivers a
consumer benefit, we eventually forgive.  It’s not often they come close
like this. As with Apple’s recent deliberate sabotaging of the Apple
Watch Qi charger, this does feel very much like another back massage for
shareholders.

Is it OK to accept the bad when there is also good?  That’s something we
can only really decide with our wallets when choice exists.  I think we
all agree that we don’t have choice.  In that respect, at least, this is
a fairly pointless discussion. :(



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Re: Apple's headphone scam

2016-01-18 Thread Brent Harding

That might be. Some of them have too much lag, and make using them with VO 
not so great. When I have Airplay on and sometimes have to restart VO, it 
always defaults to go through Airplay, even though I never told it to change 
audio routing. I'd say Airplay has a lot more delay than Bluetooth does, for 
whatever reason.


- Original Message - 
From: "Christopher-Mark Gilland" <clgillan...@gmail.com>

To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: Apple's headphone scam


I'm wonderring if that may be because there are so many bluetooth model
devices out there, that maybe Apple just didn't see the point.

Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Anders Holmberg" <and...@pipkrokodil.se>

To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 5:12 PM
Subject: Re: Apple's headphone scam


Hi!
One thing i am concerned about is why there’s not any airplay headphones
around yet?
/A

On 18 Jan 2016, at 15:37, Sabahattin Gucukoglu <listse...@me.com> wrote:

I’m afraid I just can’t quite bring myself to be sufficiently moved.  I 
don’t like planned obsolescence or proprietary standards either, but I’m 
also in the market for a new pair of travel headphones, and I actually 
would love a digital path between my iPhone and my headset.  I was not 
among those poor souls hurt by the 30-pin to Lightning transition, because 
I was not quite so silly as to buy expensive equipment with that 
connector.  And, yes, electronic waste is a terrible, terrible thing, but 
I doubt Apple will fail to provide a transition for users of the 3.5-mm 
plug.  I know it’s painful, but we do need to move forward.


JMO.

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Re: Apple's headphone scam

   That would be about the only destination I would feel safe going to 
these days. Depending on what devices you have you may have adapters 
already. But its never a bad idea to make sure of it.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 1/18/2016 3:51 PM, Brent Harding wrote:

That might be. Some of them have too much lag, and make using them with
VO not so great. When I have Airplay on and sometimes have to restart
VO, it always defaults to go through Airplay, even though I never told
it to change audio routing. I'd say Airplay has a lot more delay than
Bluetooth does, for whatever reason.

- Original Message - From: "Christopher-Mark Gilland"
<clgillan...@gmail.com>
To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: Apple's headphone scam


I'm wonderring if that may be because there are so many bluetooth model
devices out there, that maybe Apple just didn't see the point.

Chris.

- Original Message - From: "Anders Holmberg"
<and...@pipkrokodil.se>
To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 5:12 PM
Subject: Re: Apple's headphone scam


Hi!
One thing i am concerned about is why there’s not any airplay headphones
around yet?
/A

On 18 Jan 2016, at 15:37, Sabahattin Gucukoglu <listse...@me.com> wrote:

I’m afraid I just can’t quite bring myself to be sufficiently moved.
I don’t like planned obsolescence or proprietary standards either, but
I’m also in the market for a new pair of travel headphones, and I
actually would love a digital path between my iPhone and my headset.
I was not among those poor souls hurt by the 30-pin to Lightning
transition, because I was not quite so silly as to buy expensive
equipment with that connector.  And, yes, electronic waste is a
terrible, terrible thing, but I doubt Apple will fail to provide a
transition for users of the 3.5-mm plug.  I know it’s painful, but we
do need to move forward.

JMO.

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Re: Apple's headphone scam

I'm wonderring if that may be because there are so many bluetooth model 
devices out there, that maybe Apple just didn't see the point.

Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Anders Holmberg" <and...@pipkrokodil.se>

To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 5:12 PM
Subject: Re: Apple's headphone scam

Hi!
One thing i am concerned about is why there’s not any airplay headphones 
around yet?

/A

On 18 Jan 2016, at 15:37, Sabahattin Gucukoglu <listse...@me.com> wrote:

I’m afraid I just can’t quite bring myself to be sufficiently moved.  I 
don’t like planned obsolescence or proprietary standards either, but I’m 
also in the market for a new pair of travel headphones, and I actually 
would love a digital path between my iPhone and my headset.  I was not 
among those poor souls hurt by the 30-pin to Lightning transition, because 
I was not quite so silly as to buy expensive equipment with that 
connector.  And, yes, electronic waste is a terrible, terrible thing, but 
I doubt Apple will fail to provide a transition for users of the 3.5-mm 
plug.  I know it’s painful, but we do need to move forward.

JMO.

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Re: Apple's headphone scam

   The very dollar sign is what drives progress. And also drives 
entrepreneurs to start up and develop new products. So those who think 
so lowly of Apple are certainly free to take a stab at it. Guaranteed 
that those new products would elicit the same negativity too. There is 
no Goldilocks rule in the market place.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 1/18/2016 12:28 PM, Michael Marshall wrote:

i do not agree with proprietary Technologies especially with audio Products.
i don't think apple can see past getting the iPhone 1 inch thinner why that 
matters i don't know but i think the Dollar signs are very persuasive for them.

On 19 Jan 2016, at 5:29 AM, 'onlineeagle' via MacVisionaries 
<macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Quite right, well said. All change is positive, and all progress is made in the 
interests of the majority. This is not necessarily a bad thing but it does 
bring up some valid encerns about the expense that might be incurred by people 
having to try and purchase solutions to make their speakers and headphones 
work. Sometimes I connect my phone to my speakers via the headphone jack. I 
don't want to have to buy special equipment such as a new amp and speakers. 
Sometimes change happens in order to help a company to make more money and 
force people to buy more of their products, which they can charge as much as 
they like for because it's proprietary. If they could provide an adapter then 
maybe this ouldn't be such a concern.

As for the democrat republican uestion: I am in the UK where our political 
situation is unquestionably perfect. No, obviously that was a joke.   ..

Sent from my iPhone


On 18 Jan 2016, at 17:47, 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
<macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Back in the day I actually paid good money to "The Source" plus long distance 
to read news from the 84 Olympics at 300 BAUD. That and downloading walkthroughs for Zork 
:)

CB


On 1/18/16 11:46 AM, E.T. wrote:
Not to overlook 300 baud. We are not in that much of a hurry are we these days? 
We can stand to sit and wait a week for a download. can we not?

  Its all in the name of progress. If its moving too fast, people can jump off 
at the next stop. There is always the next train.

  78s? There are those who probably swore at the invasion of LPs.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?


On 1/18/2016 8:37 AM, 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries wrote:
So history rhymes a lot. Why would Apple go with that funky 3.5" disk
when I already had boxes of 5 1/4" floppies. Dropping ADB for keyboards
and mice to adopt the unknown USB means I had to get all new devices.
What was so awful expensive about a CD drive that they had to leave it
out of the newer machines? What were they thinking going with the little
3.5mm jack when my 1/4" quadrophonic Koss headphones are still good? In
all these cases Apple just moved on before the consumers really knew
where the trends were going. Wouldn't it be possible that IF Apple
dropped the last bastion of analog I/O they might actually include
headphones with the new fangled connector? For those with nice high-end
headphones a little adaptation might be in line but years from now we'll
look back and wonder what the big deal was. In the end it's all
disposable, just happening sooner than some would like. Sure some niche
or luddite realms linger, but Apple doesn't seem to care as much about
those. Vacuum tubes and vinyl LPs anyone? Yes, those are fighting words
in some camps :)

CB


On 1/18/16 10:36 AM, E.T. wrote:
Change is ever so very difficult yet change is exactly what brings us
to this point in time. With change comes the task of breaking old
obsolete habits and forming new ones.

  For example, look at the mad rush people make to trade in the last
generation of iPhones even if it is perfectly functional, or stand in
line overnight to get that new Apple TV.

  So Apple has very good reason for change. Its simple. People want
change.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?


On 1/18/2016 7:12 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:
Yes, the 3.5 m jack would go bye bye. You'd have to get new headphones,
if this wind up being true which would have a lightning plug on the end,
like your charger, instead of the rounded 3.5M plug.
Chris.

   - Original Message -
   *From:* Kawal Gucukoglu <mailto:kgli...@icloud.com>
   *To:* Macvisionaries <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
   *Sent:* Monday, January 18, 2016 10:01 AM
   *Subject:* Re: Apple's headphone scam

   Please could someone tell me how headphones could fit in a
   lightening adaptor?  You mean there would be a different kind of
   thing to put in a socket?

   I don’t und

Re: Apple's headphone scam

Again, I say:

I wasn't debating nor arguing anything, as much as trying to make some valid 
observations.  Don't read between my lines, please.  Smile.

Chris.

  - Original Message - 
  From: George Cassell 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 10:44 AM
  Subject: Re: Apple's headphone scam

  I came in a little late on this thread.  Will somebody please tell me who is 
the Democrat and who is the Republican in this debate?

  On Jan 18, 2016, at 5:49 AM, 'onlineeagle' via MacVisionaries 
<macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:

None of that explains why they have to abandon the headphone jack. Your 
point about the M4A encoding quality doesn't really address the issue, which is 
that ITunes and Apple Music do not provide as good audio quality as other 
providers. Surely, you are own guessing Apple's reasons for implimenting this, 
just in the same way as I am. I am however prepared to accept that there may be 
quite a lot of truth in what you've written my friend. I am however able to 
take a seemingly more neutral and balanced approach to Apple. I love their 
accessibility, but I do not appreciate the way they lock customers into their 
products. I get the feeling that you might be an Apple extremist, unable to 
find any fault with anything they do, advising people not to speak up against 
their concerns. If their concerns are raised then at least this helps Apple 
understand how their customers feel about their productts, which is very 
valuable for any business. My Apple extremism analogy seems further supported 
by your email signature. Apple is not a religion; it is a business. There is no 
need to respond to critiques of said business with suce emotive fervour.

Well I must say, this is out of character for me. I normally avoid 
confrontations on email lists and forums, but I'm quite enjoying myself. Hope 
you are too. 

.  ,

Sent from my iPhone

On 18 Jan 2016, at 12:09, Ray Foret Jr <rforet7...@comcast.net> wrote:

  Frankly,  I think you are looking for a reason to abandin Apple anyway.  
Sounds like it to me.  I know that audio can both be received by the lightning 
jack as well as send it out.  Furthermore, the lightning jack can render true 
5.1 channel sound.  Can your precious 3.5 MM jack do that?  Of course it 
cannot.  As for file resolution.  YOu are wrong in stating that .m4a only goes 
up to 256KBPS.  I can code it as high as 320KBPS.  I'm not sure if you bothered 
to really pay attention to what I said but, Apple is soon going to role out 
true high resolution audio.  I'm quite certain they will have the adapters for 
older headphone models.  

  !

  Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
built-in

  Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,

  Still a very happy Comcast XFinity Voice Guidance, Mac, Verizon Wireless 
iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!

On Jan 18, 2016, at 5:45 AM, 'onlineeagle' via MacVisionaries 
<macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Does seem like a cynical money making scheme. There's no reason why 
they can't have both options. All this means is that potentially people are 
going to find there old headphones redundant. If Apple provide lightning to 
headphone jack adapters then maybe this won't be so bad, but Apple are pretty 
good at trying to corner their customers and force them into staying Apple. You 
can only use ITunes  on iPhones and iPods, not android devices.  and IBooks can 
only be accessed on Apple devices. Whereas Kindle books can be read on both 
Amazons own devices as well as iPhones and iPods. You can't drag and drop files 
from your computer to your phone like you can with most other phones. You can't 
get content out of your phone from other apps like you can with other phones. 
As for audio quality: Apple music and ITunes only go as high as 256 kbps. If 
they cared about audio quality then surely this wouldn't be the case.  Spotify 
goes up to 320 kB per second, and services like tidal have los less audio 
quality.

Finally, do we even know if a lightning to headphone jack would really 
be possible? I do not want to be forced into buying proprietary headphones. If 
this happens then I'll abandon Apple. I think it's important that people let 
Apple know about their concerns. Maybe we should have done something similar 
about their working conditions for their workers in China, but that's another 
issue. Thanks.

Sent from my iPhone

On 18 Jan 2016, at 11:17, Ray Foret Jr <rforet7...@comcast.net> wrote:

  I would advise having nothing to do with this.  You are overlooking 
an obvious benefit;  and it's not just more money for Apple:  rather it's this. 
 The plain fact is that it's better to lose the headphone jack because you can 
get much better audio out of the lightning connecter than you can out of the 
3.5MM jack.  With the use of

Re: Apple's headphone scam

You know... you have an extremely extremely valid point.  I didn't even think 
about making another finger gesture for the home key, or for enabling/disabling 
Voiceover.  Point very very well taken.

Chris.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Devin Prater 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 4:17 PM
  Subject: Re: Apple's headphone scam

  Maybe a one finger triple press.

  Sent from my iPhone

  On Jan 18, 2016, at 3:15 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgillan...@gmail.com> 
wrote:

What I! want to know is, if they're doing away with the home button, then 
how will we get to our home screen, or for that mind tripple click to start 
Voiceover?  I guess it would be capassitive button, kind of like the home icon 
is on most Android devices?

I'm not so much worried about how they'll do it, provided that they make 
sure to keep us blind individuals with accessibility needs in mind, which I'm 
quite confident they will do so.

Chris.

  - Original Message - 
  From: David Chittenden 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 2:12 PM
  Subject: Re: Apple's headphone scam

  According to various rumour sources, there are a few reasons Apple is 
likely to abandon the headset jack.

  Thin iPhone - the iPhone is as thin as it can be currently. Apple likes 
thin devices, and so do several 'people I have asked. The jack needs to go for 
any thinner to be possible.

  Water resistance - Apparently, Apple is looking to make a waterproof 
device. they reportedly can make the lightning port waterproof, but not the 
headset jack.

  End-to-end display - Apple has pattented a way to embed a fingerprint 
reader across the bottom of the display, so no more home button. The display 
technology requires the space that the headset jack is currently occupying.

  Reportedly, Apple has a lightning to 3.5 mm headset adaptor. However, 
there are some rumours claiming Apple will replace the lightning port for the 
USB port found in the new MacBook.

  David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA 
  Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
  Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
  Sent from my iPhone

  On 19 Jan 2016, at 02:49, 'onlineeagle' via MacVisionaries 
<macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:

None of that explains why they have to abandon the headphone jack. Your 
point about the M4A encoding quality doesn't really address the issue, which is 
that ITunes and Apple Music do not provide as good audio quality as other 
providers. Surely, you are own guessing Apple's reasons for implimenting this, 
just in the same way as I am. I am however prepared to accept that there may be 
quite a lot of truth in what you've written my friend. I am however able to 
take a seemingly more neutral and balanced approach to Apple. I love their 
accessibility, but I do not appreciate the way they lock customers into their 
products. I get the feeling that you might be an Apple extremist, unable to 
find any fault with anything they do, advising people not to speak up against 
their concerns. If their concerns are raised then at least this helps Apple 
understand how their customers feel about their productts, which is very 
valuable for any business. My Apple extremism analogy seems further supported 
by your email signature. Apple is not a religion; it is a business. There is no 
need to respond to critiques of said business with suce emotive fervour.

Well I must say, this is out of character for me. I normally avoid 
confrontations on email lists and forums, but I'm quite enjoying myself. Hope 
you are too. 

.  ,

Sent from my iPhone

On 18 Jan 2016, at 12:09, Ray Foret Jr <rforet7...@comcast.net> wrote:

  Frankly,  I think you are looking for a reason to abandin Apple 
anyway.  Sounds like it to me.  I know that audio can both be received by the 
lightning jack as well as send it out.  Furthermore, the lightning jack can 
render true 5.1 channel sound.  Can your precious 3.5 MM jack do that?  Of 
course it cannot.  As for file resolution.  YOu are wrong in stating that .m4a 
only goes up to 256KBPS.  I can code it as high as 320KBPS.  I'm not sure if 
you bothered to really pay attention to what I said but, Apple is soon going to 
role out true high resolution audio.  I'm quite certain they will have the 
adapters for older headphone models.  

  !

  Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the 
blind built-in

  Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,

  Still a very happy Comcast XFinity Voice Guidance, Mac, Verizon 
Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!

On Jan 18, 2016, at 5:45 AM, 'onlineeagle' via MacVisionaries 
<macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Does seem like a cynical money making scheme. There's no reason why 
they can't have both

Re: Apple's headphone scam

I wasn't necessarily saying change wasn't a good thing.  If you took it that 
way, I apologize.  The only real reason that I would be irritated if this 
happens is the fact that I couldn't then easily pipe my phone into my mixer 
for audio production work.  Honestly, if I was going to use headphones, I'd 
go the bluetooth route.


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "E.T." <ancient.ali...@icloud.com>

To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 10:36 AM
Subject: Re: Apple's headphone scam


   Change is ever so very difficult yet change is exactly what brings
us to this point in time. With change comes the task of breaking old
obsolete habits and forming new ones.

   For example, look at the mad rush people make to trade in the last
generation of iPhones even if it is perfectly functional, or stand in
line overnight to get that new Apple TV.

   So Apple has very good reason for change. Its simple. People want
change.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 1/18/2016 7:12 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

Yes, the 3.5 m jack would go bye bye.  You'd have to get new headphones,
if this wind up being true which would have a lightning plug on the end,
like your charger, instead of the rounded 3.5M plug.
Chris.

- Original Message -
*From:* Kawal Gucukoglu <mailto:kgli...@icloud.com>
*To:* Macvisionaries <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
*Sent:* Monday, January 18, 2016 10:01 AM
    *Subject:* Re: Apple's headphone scam

Please could someone tell me how headphones could fit in a
lightening adaptor?  You mean there would be a different kind of
thing to put in a socket?

I don’t understand this headphone lightening connector thing.  When
I sell my I phones, I normally sell the headphones as well if they
are still working by then.

Kawal. On 18 Jan 2016, at 14:37, Sabahattin Gucukoglu
<listse...@me.com <mailto:listse...@me.com>> wrote:


I’m afraid I just can’t quite bring myself to be sufficiently
moved.  I don’t like planned obsolescence or proprietary standards
either, but I’m also in the market for a new pair of travel
headphones, and I actually would love a digital path between my
iPhone and my headset.  I was not among those poor souls hurt by
the 30-pin to Lightning transition, because I was not quite so
silly as to buy expensive equipment with that connector.  And,
yes, electronic waste is a terrible, terrible thing, but I doubt
Apple will fail to provide a transition for users of the 3.5-mm
plug.  I know it’s painful, but we do need to move forward.

JMO.

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Re: Apple's headphone scam

Hi Chris,

No, you could continue to use Lightning.  Europe simply standardised the 
universal charger to be Micro USB.  In other words, your phone had to support 
it, somehow, in order to be compliant.  This was intended to reduce electrical 
waste, a laudable goal in itself, by reducing the number of chargers required, 
and of course also had the positive side-effect of making it possible for any 
consumer to charge their phone anywhere there was a charging cable, pod, cradle 
or dock.  This is actually not dissimilar to the new type C USB connector that 
is at last happening.  Interestingly, Apple approved of the motion in 2009, but 
when the iPhone 5 was released, did not follow through on it.  The adaptor is 
quite a poor substitute.

Cheers,
Sabahattin

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Re: Apple's headphone scam

2016-01-18 Thread Anders Holmberg

Hi!
And why fight about this?
Its what it is and we can not do much about it.
Even if we sign a petition or anything i don’t think its gonna be worse.
Why don’t make voiceover more accessible and more flexible.
Personally i would like apple to understand how important voiceover is for us 
blind people.
It seems to me that they are a bit  inatentive these days.
So come on now guys and lets fight for a better voiceover instead.
/A
> On 18 Jan 2016, at 13:09, Ray Foret Jr  wrote:
> 
> Frankly,  I think you are looking for a reason to abandin Apple anyway.  
> Sounds like it to me.  I know that audio can both be received by the 
> lightning jack as well as send it out.  Furthermore, the lightning jack can 
> render true 5.1 channel sound.  Can your precious 3.5 MM jack do that?  Of 
> course it cannot.  As for file resolution.  YOu are wrong in stating that 
> .m4a only goes up to 256KBPS.  I can code it as high as 320KBPS.  I'm not 
> sure if you bothered to really pay attention to what I said but, Apple is 
> soon going to role out true high resolution audio.  I'm quite certain they 
> will have the adapters for older headphone models.  
> !
> 
> Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
> built-in
> 
> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,
> 
> Still a very happy Comcast XFinity Voice Guidance, Mac, Verizon Wireless 
> iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!
> 
>> On Jan 18, 2016, at 5:45 AM, 'onlineeagle' via MacVisionaries 
>> > 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Does seem like a cynical money making scheme. There's no reason why they 
>> can't have both options. All this means is that potentially people are going 
>> to find there old headphones redundant. If Apple provide lightning to 
>> headphone jack adapters then maybe this won't be so bad, but Apple are 
>> pretty good at trying to corner their customers and force them into staying 
>> Apple. You can only use ITunes  on iPhones and iPods, not android devices.  
>> and IBooks can only be accessed on Apple devices. Whereas Kindle books can 
>> be read on both Amazons own devices as well as iPhones and iPods. You can't 
>> drag and drop files from your computer to your phone like you can with most 
>> other phones. You can't get content out of your phone from other apps like 
>> you can with other phones. As for audio quality: Apple music and ITunes only 
>> go as high as 256 kbps. If they cared about audio quality then surely this 
>> wouldn't be the case.  Spotify goes up to 320 kB per second, and services 
>> like tidal have los less audio quality.
>> 
>> Finally, do we even know if a lightning to headphone jack would really be 
>> possible? I do not want to be forced into buying proprietary headphones. If 
>> this happens then I'll abandon Apple. I think it's important that people let 
>> Apple know about their concerns. Maybe we should have done something similar 
>> about their working conditions for their workers in China, but that's 
>> another issue. Thanks.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On 18 Jan 2016, at 11:17, Ray Foret Jr > > wrote:
>> 
>>> I would advise having nothing to do with this.  You are overlooking an 
>>> obvious benefit;  and it's not just more money for Apple:  rather it's 
>>> this.  The plain fact is that it's better to lose the headphone jack 
>>> because you can get much better audio out of the lightning connecter than 
>>> you can out of the 3.5MM jack.  With the use of the lightning connecter, 
>>> you can take advantage of the high resolution audio format which Apple is 
>>> said to be roling out soon.  Also, there are other advantages besides.  
>>> Don't fall for this emotional knee-jerk nonsense.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> !
>>> 
>>> Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
>>> built-in
>>> 
>>> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,
>>> 
>>> Still a very happy Comcast XFinity Voice Guidance, Mac, Verizon Wireless 
>>> iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!
>>> 
 On Jan 18, 2016, at 4:54 AM, Terje Strømberg > wrote:
 
 Friends,
 
 If the rumours are true, the iPhone 7 will have a non-standard, 
 proprietary headphone jack -- meaning piles more cash for Apple and miles 
 more e-waste for the rest of us.
 
 Sign this petition to get Apple to stick to the standard headphone jack on 
 the iPhone: http://action.sumofus.org/a/iphone-headphone-jack/?sub=mtl 
 
 
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Re: Apple's headphone scam


Wut?

LOL!

Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Sabahattin Gucukoglu" <listse...@me.com>

To: "'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries" <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 11:18 AM
Subject: Re: Apple's headphone scam


On 18 Jan 2016, at 15:44, George Cassell <georgecass...@gmail.com> wrote:
I came in a little late on this thread.  Will somebody please tell me who 
is the Democrat and who is the Republican in this debate?


Never mind that—where’s the link to Nazi Germany on this thread?

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Re: Apple's headphone scam

2016-01-18 Thread Devin Prater

Maybe a one finger triple press.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 18, 2016, at 3:15 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgillan...@gmail.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> What I! want to know is, if they're doing away with the home button, then how 
> will we get to our home screen, or for that mind tripple click to start 
> Voiceover?  I guess it would be capassitive button,  kind of like the home 
> icon is on most Android devices?
>  
> I'm not so much worried about how they'll do it, provided that they make sure 
> to keep us blind individuals with accessibility needs in mind, which I'm 
> quite confident they will do so.
>  
> Chris.
>  
> - Original Message -
> From: David Chittenden
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 2:12 PM
> Subject: Re: Apple's headphone scam
> 
> According to various rumour sources, there are a few reasons Apple is likely 
> to abandon the headset jack.
> 
> Thin iPhone - the iPhone is as thin as it can be currently. Apple likes thin 
> devices, and so do several 'people I have asked. The jack needs to go for any 
> thinner to be possible.
> 
> Water resistance - Apparently, Apple is looking to make a waterproof device. 
> they reportedly can make the lightning port waterproof, but not the headset 
> jack.
> 
> End-to-end display - Apple has pattented a way to embed a fingerprint reader 
> across the bottom of the display, so no more home button. The display 
> technology requires the space that the headset jack is currently occupying.
> 
> Reportedly, Apple has a lightning to 3.5 mm headset adaptor. However, there 
> are some rumours claiming Apple will replace the lightning port for the USB 
> port found in the new MacBook.
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 19 Jan 2016, at 02:49, 'onlineeagle' via MacVisionaries 
>> <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>> 
>> None of that explains why they have to abandon the headphone jack. Your 
>> point about the M4A encoding quality doesn't really address the issue, which 
>> is that ITunes and Apple Music do not provide as good audio quality as other 
>> providers. Surely, you are own guessing Apple's reasons for implimenting 
>> this, just in the same way as I am. I am however prepared to accept that 
>> there may be quite a lot of truth in what you've written my friend. I am 
>> however able to take a seemingly more neutral and balanced approach to 
>> Apple. I love their accessibility, but I do not appreciate the way they lock 
>> customers into their products. I get the feeling that you might be an Apple 
>> extremist, unable to find any fault with anything they do, advising people 
>> not to speak up against their concerns. If their concerns are raised then at 
>> least this helps Apple understand how their customers feel about their 
>> productts, which is very valuable for any business. My Apple extremism 
>> analogy seems further supported by your email signature. Apple is not a 
>> religion; it is a business. There is no need to respond to critiques of said 
>> business with suce emotive fervour.
>> 
>> Well I must say, this is out of character for me. I normally avoid 
>> confrontations on email lists and forums, but I'm quite enjoying myself. 
>> Hope you are too. 
>> 
>> .  ,
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 18 Jan 2016, at 12:09, Ray Foret Jr <rforet7...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Frankly,  I think you are looking for a reason to abandin Apple anyway.  
>>> Sounds like it to me.  I know that audio can both be received by the 
>>> lightning jack as well as send it out.  Furthermore, the lightning jack can 
>>> render true 5.1 channel sound.  Can your precious 3.5 MM jack do that?  Of 
>>> course it cannot.  As for file resolution.  YOu are wrong in stating that 
>>> .m4a only goes up to 256KBPS.  I can code it as high as 320KBPS.  I'm not 
>>> sure if you bothered to really pay attention to what I said but, Apple is 
>>> soon going to role out true high resolution audio.  I'm quite certain they 
>>> will have the adapters for older headphone models.  
>>> !
>>> 
>>> Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
>>> built-in
>>> 
>>> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,
>>> 
>>> Still a very happy Comcast XFinity Voice Guidance, Mac, Verizon Wireless 
>>> iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 18, 2016, at 5:45 AM, 'onlineeagle' via MacVisionaries

Re: Apple's headphone scam

Standards are good.  I love standards.

Europe standardised on Micro USB so iPhone users could charge from many points. 
 Apple’s response was to make us an adaptor, at cost, which is not available 
outside the EEA.  This rather negated its purpose, of course; now you had to 
remember to bring the adaptor with your phone.

The Lightning connector itself uses an authentication process, now broken, so 
that the manufacturers might bend over.  The consumer gets part of that cost, 
of course, and Apple now has control over the supply chain.

 However, I’m reluctant to ascribe motives without hard evidence (except when 
I’m ranting, natch).  The fact is that Lightning is superior to Micro USB.  On 
the other feeler, it’s less clear what the reasons are for requiring 
authentication of the Lightning adaptors themselves, but sadly, the closest 
logical reason is money.  When Apple delivers a consumer benefit, we eventually 
forgive.  It’s not often they come close like this.  As with Apple’s recent 
deliberate sabotaging of the Apple Watch Qi charger, this does feel very much 
like another back massage for shareholders.

Is it OK to accept the bad when there is also good?  That’s something we can 
only really decide with our wallets when choice exists.  I think we all agree 
that we don’t have choice.  In that respect, at least, this is a fairly 
pointless discussion. :(

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Re: Apple's headphone scam

2016-01-18 Thread Devin Prater

Frotz on iOS is usable too.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 18, 2016, at 1:28 PM, 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
> <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> 
> It's been a while but, last I checked, the Zoom app to play various Infocom 
> games was fairly accessible.
> 
> http://www.logicalshift.co.uk/unix/zoom/
> 
> CB
> 
>> On 1/18/16 1:56 PM, E.T. wrote:
>>   Oh Zork! Is it still alive? I never got far in it but twas a neat text 
>> advcenture game.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> 
>>> On 1/18/2016 9:47 AM, 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>> Back in the day I actually paid good money to "The Source" plus long
>>> distance to read news from the 84 Olympics at 300 BAUD. That and
>>> downloading walkthroughs for Zork :)
>>> 
>>> CB
>>> 
>>>> On 1/18/16 11:46 AM, E.T. wrote:
>>>> Not to overlook 300 baud. We are not in that much of a hurry are we
>>>> these days? We can stand to sit and wait a week for a download. can we
>>>> not?
>>>> 
>>>>   Its all in the name of progress. If its moving too fast, people can
>>>> jump off at the next stop. There is always the next train.
>>>> 
>>>>   78s? There are those who probably swore at the invasion of LPs.
>>>> 
>>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>>> 
>>>>> On 1/18/2016 8:37 AM, 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>>>> So history rhymes a lot. Why would Apple go with that funky 3.5" disk
>>>>> when I already had boxes of 5 1/4" floppies. Dropping ADB for keyboards
>>>>> and mice to adopt the unknown USB means I had to get all new devices.
>>>>> What was so awful expensive about a CD drive that they had to leave it
>>>>> out of the newer machines? What were they thinking going with the little
>>>>> 3.5mm jack when my 1/4" quadrophonic Koss headphones are still good? In
>>>>> all these cases Apple just moved on before the consumers really knew
>>>>> where the trends were going. Wouldn't it be possible that IF Apple
>>>>> dropped the last bastion of analog I/O they might actually include
>>>>> headphones with the new fangled connector? For those with nice high-end
>>>>> headphones a little adaptation might be in line but years from now we'll
>>>>> look back and wonder what the big deal was. In the end it's all
>>>>> disposable, just happening sooner than some would like. Sure some niche
>>>>> or luddite realms linger, but Apple doesn't seem to care as much about
>>>>> those. Vacuum tubes and vinyl LPs anyone? Yes, those are fighting words
>>>>> in some camps :)
>>>>> 
>>>>> CB
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 1/18/16 10:36 AM, E.T. wrote:
>>>>>> Change is ever so very difficult yet change is exactly what brings us
>>>>>> to this point in time. With change comes the task of breaking old
>>>>>> obsolete habits and forming new ones.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   For example, look at the mad rush people make to trade in the last
>>>>>> generation of iPhones even if it is perfectly functional, or stand in
>>>>>> line overnight to get that new Apple TV.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   So Apple has very good reason for change. Its simple. People want
>>>>>> change.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>>>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>>>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>>>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 1/18/2016 7:12 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:
>>>>>>> Yes, the 3.5 m jack would go bye bye. You'd have to get new
>>>>>>> headphones,
>>>>>>> if this wind up being true which would have a lightning plug on the
>>>>>>> end,
>>>>>>> like your charger, instead of the rounded 3.5M plug.
>>>>>>> Chris.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>- Original Message -
>>>>>>>*From:* Kawal Guc

Re: Apple's headphone scam


Wait,

I may a misunderstood, but are you saying that if I went to Europe, I'd have 
to get a lightning to micro USB adapter to charge my phone?


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Sabahattin Gucukoglu" <listse...@me.com>

To: "'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries" <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: Apple's headphone scam


Standards are good.  I love standards.

Europe standardised on Micro USB so iPhone users could charge from many 
points.  Apple’s response was to make us an adaptor, at cost, which is not 
available outside the EEA.  This rather negated its purpose, of course; now 
you had to remember to bring the adaptor with your phone.


The Lightning connector itself uses an authentication process, now broken, 
so that the manufacturers might bend over.  The consumer gets part of that 
cost, of course, and Apple now has control over the supply chain.


However, I’m reluctant to ascribe motives without hard evidence (except 
when I’m ranting, natch).  The fact is that Lightning is superior to Micro 
USB.  On the other feeler, it’s less clear what the reasons are for 
requiring authentication of the Lightning adaptors themselves, but sadly, 
the closest logical reason is money.  When Apple delivers a consumer 
benefit, we eventually forgive.  It’s not often they come close like this. 
As with Apple’s recent deliberate sabotaging of the Apple Watch Qi charger, 
this does feel very much like another back massage for shareholders.


Is it OK to accept the bad when there is also good?  That’s something we can 
only really decide with our wallets when choice exists.  I think we all 
agree that we don’t have choice.  In that respect, at least, this is a 
fairly pointless discussion. :(


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Re: Apple's headphone scam

2016-01-18 Thread Terje Strømberg

In Apple store, a link to an expensive, but maybe good sounding Audeze EL-8 
Titanium headphones with both lightning/dac in the cable. Also have standard 
3.5mm jack.  
http://www.apple.com/shop/product/HJLS2VC/A/audeze-el-8-titanium-closed-back-headphones

Take care

18. jan. 2016 kl. 14:58 skrev Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgillan...@gmail.com>:

Ray,

You! are also failing to see something though.  You're point is valid and well 
taken, don't get me wrong here, but what about those who don't have headphones 
with a lightning connecter.  Or what about those like myself who use both 
Apple, and! Android products?  Are we gonna be left in the cold having to buy 
two different pares of headphones, and lug both them around with us?  Surely 
that seems absurd.

Before you say, there are adapters probably being made, take it from a guy 
who's a certified engineer.  If you take an 8th inch plug, and pop a lightning 
adapter on it, the bottom line is the signal is traveling down the line from 
the lightning, to the 3.5M plug, down the headphone cord, and to your 
earpieces.  The point being, that signal might have started as digital, giving 
you the new to come high resolution, but ultimately by the time it hits your 
ears, it will have been carried down the line to your stereo 3.5M jack in the 
adapter, and at that point, your headphones won't know what to do with that 
signal.  It would most likely be converted to an annalog signal.  Therefore, 
the only way you'd truly get that benefit is no adapter.  Plug directly in, 
which means new headphones for us, which means more marketting by Apple, and 
more money for Apple.

I'm just sayin'.

Chris.

- Original Message -
From: Ray Foret Jr
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 6:17 AM
Subject: Re: Apple's headphone scam

I would advise having nothing to do with this.  You are overlooking an obvious 
benefit;  and it's not just more money for Apple:  rather it's this.  The plain 
fact is that it's better to lose the headphone jack because you can get much 
better audio out of the lightning connecter than you can out of the 3.5MM jack. 
 With the use of the lightning connecter, you can take advantage of the high 
resolution audio format which Apple is said to be roling out soon.  Also, there 
are other advantages besides.  Don't fall for this emotional knee-jerk nonsense.

!

Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
built-in

Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,

Still a very happy Comcast XFinity Voice Guidance, Mac, Verizon Wireless 
iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!

> On Jan 18, 2016, at 4:54 AM, Terje Strømberg <terjestrmb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Friends,
> 
> If the rumours are true, the iPhone 7 will have a non-standard, proprietary 
> headphone jack -- meaning piles more cash for Apple and miles more e-waste 
> for the rest of us.
> 
> Sign this petition to get Apple to stick to the standard headphone jack on 
> the iPhone: http://action.sumofus.org/a/iphone-headphone-jack/?sub=mtl
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
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To post

Re: Apple's headphone scam

2016-01-18 Thread Michael Marshall

if this shockingly stupid decision is taken by apple do you think adapters 
would become available?
this would be a very stupid decision, think of the bad press is what i would be 
screaming at them.
> On 19 Jan 2016, at 5:17 AM, Jonathan Mosen <jmo...@mosen.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone, while technology must advance, I'm troubled by replacing a 
> universal standard with a proprietary connector, and would far rather see an 
> industry-wide standard agreed upon, in the same way that USB C was adopted 
> and is now being used by Apple on the new Macs.
> This has been all over social media, but for those who haven't read it yet, 
> here's my blog post on the accessibility ramifications of the removal of the 
> headphone jack.
> http://mosen.org/index.php/an-iphone-without-a-headphone-jack-the-accessibility-ramifications/
>  
> <http://mosen.org/index.php/an-iphone-without-a-headphone-jack-the-accessibility-ramifications/>
> Jonathan Mosen
> Mosen Consulting
> Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
> http://Mosen.org
> 
>> On 19/01/2016, at 6:47 AM, 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
>> <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Back in the day I actually paid good money to "The Source" plus long 
>> distance to read news from the 84 Olympics at 300 BAUD. That and downloading 
>> walkthroughs for Zork :)
>> 
>> CB
>> 
>> On 1/18/16 11:46 AM, E.T. wrote:
>>> Not to overlook 300 baud. We are not in that much of a hurry are we these 
>>> days? We can stand to sit and wait a week for a download. can we not?
>>> 
>>>   Its all in the name of progress. If its moving too fast, people can jump 
>>> off at the next stop. There is always the next train.
>>> 
>>>   78s? There are those who probably swore at the invasion of LPs.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
>>> On 1/18/2016 8:37 AM, 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>>> So history rhymes a lot. Why would Apple go with that funky 3.5" disk
>>>> when I already had boxes of 5 1/4" floppies. Dropping ADB for keyboards
>>>> and mice to adopt the unknown USB means I had to get all new devices.
>>>> What was so awful expensive about a CD drive that they had to leave it
>>>> out of the newer machines? What were they thinking going with the little
>>>> 3.5mm jack when my 1/4" quadrophonic Koss headphones are still good? In
>>>> all these cases Apple just moved on before the consumers really knew
>>>> where the trends were going. Wouldn't it be possible that IF Apple
>>>> dropped the last bastion of analog I/O they might actually include
>>>> headphones with the new fangled connector? For those with nice high-end
>>>> headphones a little adaptation might be in line but years from now we'll
>>>> look back and wonder what the big deal was. In the end it's all
>>>> disposable, just happening sooner than some would like. Sure some niche
>>>> or luddite realms linger, but Apple doesn't seem to care as much about
>>>> those. Vacuum tubes and vinyl LPs anyone? Yes, those are fighting words
>>>> in some camps :)
>>>> 
>>>> CB
>>>> 
>>>> On 1/18/16 10:36 AM, E.T. wrote:
>>>>> Change is ever so very difficult yet change is exactly what brings us
>>>>> to this point in time. With change comes the task of breaking old
>>>>> obsolete habits and forming new ones.
>>>>> 
>>>>>   For example, look at the mad rush people make to trade in the last
>>>>> generation of iPhones even if it is perfectly functional, or stand in
>>>>> line overnight to get that new Apple TV.
>>>>> 
>>>>>   So Apple has very good reason for change. Its simple. People want
>>>>> change.
>>>>> 
>>>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 1/18/2016 7:12 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:
>>>>>> Yes, the 3.5 m jack would go bye bye. You'd have to get new headphones,
>>>>>> if this wind up being true which would have a lightning plug on the end,
>>>>>> like your charger, instead of the rounded 3.5M plug.
>>>>>> Chris.
>>>

Re: Apple's headphone scam

2016-01-18 Thread Brent Harding

The lightning to 3.5 mm adapter would also have to have a digital to analog 
converter inside it for it to be able to make the digital signal from the 
lightning port into analog that normal earphones can use. I've heard that 
lightning port accessories are unable to draw power off that connection, so it 
probably means either a change to that or more headphones with batteries. It 
actually would make more sense for them to replace lightning with USB C, which 
can power these small devices. Either way, the old jack's days have a 
possibility of being numbered for Apple. I would've thought the new Mac Books 
would've went with lightning instead of USB C if they could have, but the new 
phones could go to C and leave lightning behind as well to match that. 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Christopher-Mark Gilland 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 7:58 AM
  Subject: Re: Apple's headphone scam


  Ray,

  You! are also failing to see something though.  You're point is valid and 
well taken, don't get me wrong here, but what about those who don't have 
headphones with a lightning connecter.  Or what about those like myself who use 
both Apple, and! Android products?  Are we gonna be left in the cold having to 
buy two different pares of headphones, and lug both them around with us?  
Surely that seems absurd.

  Before you say, there are adapters probably being made, take it from a guy 
who's a certified engineer.  If you take an 8th inch plug, and pop a lightning 
adapter on it, the bottom line is the signal is traveling down the line from 
the lightning, to the 3.5M plug, down the headphone cord, and to your 
earpieces.  The point being, that signal might have started as digital, giving 
you the new to come high resolution, but ultimately by the time it hits your 
ears, it will have been carried down the line to your stereo 3.5M jack in the 
adapter, and at that point, your headphones won't know what to do with that 
signal.  It would most likely be converted to an annalog signal.  Therefore, 
the only way you'd truly get that benefit is no adapter.  Plug directly in, 
which means new headphones for us, which means more marketting by Apple, and 
more money for Apple.

  I'm just sayin'.

  Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: Ray Foret Jr 
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 6:17 AM
Subject: Re: Apple's headphone scam


I would advise having nothing to do with this.  You are overlooking an 
obvious benefit;  and it's not just more money for Apple:  rather it's this.  
The plain fact is that it's better to lose the headphone jack because you can 
get much better audio out of the lightning connecter than you can out of the 
3.5MM jack.  With the use of the lightning connecter, you can take advantage of 
the high resolution audio format which Apple is said to be roling out soon.  
Also, there are other advantages besides.  Don't fall for this emotional 
knee-jerk nonsense. 




!


Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
built-in


Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,

Still a very happy Comcast XFinity Voice Guidance, Mac, Verizon Wireless 
iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!


  On Jan 18, 2016, at 4:54 AM, Terje Strømberg <terjestrmb...@gmail.com> 
wrote:


  Friends,

  If the rumours are true, the iPhone 7 will have a non-standard, 
proprietary headphone jack -- meaning piles more cash for Apple and miles more 
e-waste for the rest of us.

  Sign this petition to get Apple to stick to the standard headphone jack 
on the iPhone: http://action.sumofus.org/a/iphone-headphone-jack/?sub=mtl

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Re: Apple's headphone scam

2016-01-18 Thread Michael Marshall

i do not agree with proprietary Technologies especially with audio Products.
i don't think apple can see past getting the iPhone 1 inch thinner why that 
matters i don't know but i think the Dollar signs are very persuasive for them. 
> On 19 Jan 2016, at 5:29 AM, 'onlineeagle' via MacVisionaries 
> <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> 
> Quite right, well said. All change is positive, and all progress is made in 
> the interests of the majority. This is not necessarily a bad thing but it 
> does bring up some valid encerns about the expense that might be incurred by 
> people having to try and purchase solutions to make their speakers and 
> headphones work. Sometimes I connect my phone to my speakers via the 
> headphone jack. I don't want to have to buy special equipment such as a new 
> amp and speakers. Sometimes change happens in order to help a company to make 
> more money and force people to buy more of their products, which they can 
> charge as much as they like for because it's proprietary. If they could 
> provide an adapter then maybe this ouldn't be such a concern.
> 
> As for the democrat republican uestion: I am in the UK where our political 
> situation is unquestionably perfect. No, obviously that was a joke.   ..
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 18 Jan 2016, at 17:47, 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
>> <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Back in the day I actually paid good money to "The Source" plus long 
>> distance to read news from the 84 Olympics at 300 BAUD. That and downloading 
>> walkthroughs for Zork :)
>> 
>> CB
>> 
>>> On 1/18/16 11:46 AM, E.T. wrote:
>>> Not to overlook 300 baud. We are not in that much of a hurry are we these 
>>> days? We can stand to sit and wait a week for a download. can we not?
>>> 
>>>  Its all in the name of progress. If its moving too fast, people can jump 
>>> off at the next stop. There is always the next train.
>>> 
>>>  78s? There are those who probably swore at the invasion of LPs.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
>>>> On 1/18/2016 8:37 AM, 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>>> So history rhymes a lot. Why would Apple go with that funky 3.5" disk
>>>> when I already had boxes of 5 1/4" floppies. Dropping ADB for keyboards
>>>> and mice to adopt the unknown USB means I had to get all new devices.
>>>> What was so awful expensive about a CD drive that they had to leave it
>>>> out of the newer machines? What were they thinking going with the little
>>>> 3.5mm jack when my 1/4" quadrophonic Koss headphones are still good? In
>>>> all these cases Apple just moved on before the consumers really knew
>>>> where the trends were going. Wouldn't it be possible that IF Apple
>>>> dropped the last bastion of analog I/O they might actually include
>>>> headphones with the new fangled connector? For those with nice high-end
>>>> headphones a little adaptation might be in line but years from now we'll
>>>> look back and wonder what the big deal was. In the end it's all
>>>> disposable, just happening sooner than some would like. Sure some niche
>>>> or luddite realms linger, but Apple doesn't seem to care as much about
>>>> those. Vacuum tubes and vinyl LPs anyone? Yes, those are fighting words
>>>> in some camps :)
>>>> 
>>>> CB
>>>> 
>>>>> On 1/18/16 10:36 AM, E.T. wrote:
>>>>> Change is ever so very difficult yet change is exactly what brings us
>>>>> to this point in time. With change comes the task of breaking old
>>>>> obsolete habits and forming new ones.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  For example, look at the mad rush people make to trade in the last
>>>>> generation of iPhones even if it is perfectly functional, or stand in
>>>>> line overnight to get that new Apple TV.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  So Apple has very good reason for change. Its simple. People want
>>>>> change.
>>>>> 
>>>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>>>  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 1/18/2016 7:12 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:
>>>>>> Yes, the 3.5 m jack would go bye b

Re: Apple's headphone scam

2016-01-18 Thread Devin Prater

On the headphone debate, I know a few people at the technical school I go to 
that don't use headphones, who just have their phone blasting out their info as 
they text and such. So some blind users won't be effected at all by the change, 
lol.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 18, 2016, at 3:06 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgillan...@gmail.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Wut?
> 
> LOL!
> 
> Chris.
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Sabahattin Gucukoglu" <listse...@me.com>
> To: "'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries" <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 11:18 AM
> Subject: Re: Apple's headphone scam
> 
> 
>> On 18 Jan 2016, at 15:44, George Cassell <georgecass...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I came in a little late on this thread.  Will somebody please tell me who is 
>> the Democrat and who is the Republican in this debate?
> 
> Never mind that—where’s the link to Nazi Germany on this thread?
> 
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Re: Apple's headphone scam

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

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Re: Apple's headphone scam

I don't so much think I'd go as far as to call this stupid. that's a little
strong, although I definitely would be willing to call it agrevating, that's
for sure!

Chris.

- Original Message -
From: Michael Marshall
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 3:25 PM
Subject: Re: Apple's headphone scam

if this shockingly stupid decision is taken by apple do you think adapters
would become available?
this would be a very stupid decision, think of the bad press is what i would
be screaming at them.

On 19 Jan 2016, at 5:17 AM, Jonathan Mosen <jmo...@mosen.org> wrote:

http://mosen.org/index.php/an-iphone-without-a-headphone-jack-the-accessibility-ramifications/

Jonathan Mosen
Mosen Consulting
Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
http://Mosen.org

On 19/01/2016, at 6:47 AM, 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries
<macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Back in the day I actually paid good money to "The Source" plus long
distance to read news from the 84 Olympics at 300 BAUD. That and downloading
walkthroughs for Zork :)

On 1/18/16 11:46 AM, E.T. wrote:

Not to overlook 300 baud. We are not in that much of a hurry are we
these days? We can stand to sit and wait a week for a download. can we not?

Its all in the name of progress. If its moving too fast, people can
jump off at the next stop. There is always the next train.

78s? There are those who probably swore at the invasion of LPs.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 1/18/2016 8:37 AM, 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries wrote:

So history rhymes a lot. Why would Apple go with that funky 3.5" disk
when I already had boxes of 5 1/4" floppies. Dropping ADB for
keyboards
and mice to adopt the unknown USB means I had to get all new devices.
What was so awful expensive about a CD drive that they had to leave it
out of the newer machines? What were they thinking going with the
little
3.5mm jack when my 1/4" quadrophonic Koss headphones are still good?
In
all these cases Apple just moved on before the consumers really knew
where the trends were going. Wouldn't it be possible that IF Apple
dropped the last bastion of analog I/O they might actually include
headphones with the new fangled connector? For those with nice
high-end
headphones a little adaptation might be in line but years from now
we'll
look back and wonder what the big deal was. In the end it's all
disposable, just happening sooner than some would like. Sure some
niche
or luddite realms linger, but Apple doesn't seem to care as much about
those. Vacuum tubes and vinyl LPs anyone? Yes, those are fighting
words
in some camps :)

On 1/18/16 10:36 AM, E.T. wrote:

Change is ever so very difficult yet change is exactly what brings
us
to this point in time. With change comes the task of breaking old
obsolete habits and forming new ones.

For example, look at the mad rush people make to trade in the last
generation of iPhones even if it is perfectly functional, or stand
in
line overnight to get that new Apple TV.

So Apple has very good reason for change. Its simple. People want
change.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 1/18/2016 7:12 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

Yes, the 3.5 m jack would go bye bye. You'd have to get new
headphones,
if this wind up being true which would have a lightning plug on
the end,
like your charger, instead of the rounded 3.5M plug.
Chris.

Please could someone tell me how head

Re: Apple's headphone scam

   But if you go to Europe with AC powered devices in tow, you do need 
adapters. And that concept is exactly what will make this change by 
Apple quite edible if in fact it is true.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 1/18/2016 1:24 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

Wait,

I may a misunderstood, but are you saying that if I went to Europe, I'd
have to get a lightning to micro USB adapter to charge my phone?

Chris.

- Original Message - From: "Sabahattin Gucukoglu"
<listse...@me.com>
To: "'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries" <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: Apple's headphone scam


Standards are good.  I love standards.

Europe standardised on Micro USB so iPhone users could charge from many
points.  Apple’s response was to make us an adaptor, at cost, which is
not available outside the EEA.  This rather negated its purpose, of
course; now you had to remember to bring the adaptor with your phone.

The Lightning connector itself uses an authentication process, now
broken, so that the manufacturers might bend over.  The consumer gets
part of that cost, of course, and Apple now has control over the supply
chain.

However, I’m reluctant to ascribe motives without hard evidence (except
when I’m ranting, natch).  The fact is that Lightning is superior to
Micro USB.  On the other feeler, it’s less clear what the reasons are
for requiring authentication of the Lightning adaptors themselves, but
sadly, the closest logical reason is money.  When Apple delivers a
consumer benefit, we eventually forgive.  It’s not often they come close
like this. As with Apple’s recent deliberate sabotaging of the Apple
Watch Qi charger, this does feel very much like another back massage for
shareholders.

Is it OK to accept the bad when there is also good?  That’s something we
can only really decide with our wallets when choice exists.  I think we
all agree that we don’t have choice.  In that respect, at least, this is
a fairly pointless discussion. :(



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Re: Apple's headphone scam

2016-01-18 Thread Anders Holmberg

Hi!
One thing i am concerned about is why there’s not any airplay headphones around 
yet?
/A
> On 18 Jan 2016, at 15:37, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> I’m afraid I just can’t quite bring myself to be sufficiently moved.  I don’t 
> like planned obsolescence or proprietary standards either, but I’m also in 
> the market for a new pair of travel headphones, and I actually would love a 
> digital path between my iPhone and my headset.  I was not among those poor 
> souls hurt by the 30-pin to Lightning transition, because I was not quite so 
> silly as to buy expensive equipment with that connector.  And, yes, 
> electronic waste is a terrible, terrible thing, but I doubt Apple will fail 
> to provide a transition for users of the 3.5-mm plug.  I know it’s painful, 
> but we do need to move forward.
> 
> JMO.
> 
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Re: Apple's headphone scam

2016-01-18 Thread Brent Harding

They would have to replace nothing to do it, at least not visibly. They 
could have one of those 3.5mm sockets that can do both. The optical cable 
somehow activates the digital, while normal analog cables get analog.

- Original Message - 
From: "Sabahattin Gucukoglu" <listse...@me.com>

To: "'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries" <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 12:40 PM
Subject: Re: Apple's headphone scam

I think the issue with Apple “Moving on” is that the consumer is never ready 
for it.  In a sense, that’s a testament to Apple’s forward-thinking 
approach, but it also means that they are the first to draw the fire for 
having the audacity to bring something to market without standardising it by 
committee first, which I legitimately believe has its drawbacks.  I do 
sometimes wish standards were more often on the table, for sure.  And it’s 
not as if Apple doesn’t enjoy the closed, vertical approach, because it 
helps their bottom line (remember FireWire?).  And sometimes Apple makes 
false moves: dropping optical has thus far been a boon for laptops but has 
not seen quite as much love on the desktop and AIO side (iMac, now the 
thinnest desktop you’ll ever use, if you don’t mind that you can’t play your 
DVDs in it or remote-control it any more).

So, I understand the anger and criticism.  I also confidently predict that 
history will repeat itself, and in a decade or so we’ll all be fondly 
remembering the 3.5 mm plug and the good old days. :)

As for my hopes, I hope that Apple will not fragment the market and that an 
open standard will emerge.  It is either that, or the standard in question 
becomes Lightning.  Otherwise, in a decade we’ll all be remembering with 
fondness the days when one could plug ones audio equipment into any 
available headphone or mini-SPDIF socket.

I wonder why Apple did not replace the headphone socket with a mini-SPDIF 
socket?  Now *that* would have been a smart move …

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Re: Apple's headphone scam