Re: M-TH: Lenin and the working class again
Lo Again, >>Not at all - who said anything about spontaneously revolutionary? What we have to do is conscientiously and consciously buoild a mass movement for >>revolution, it won't happen until the working class is willing and conscious for change. How could we have a succesful revolution with a vanguard? Make the >>programmers work at gun point? It would degenerate into tyranny, it cannot work. the only way the workers can be free is if we consciously free ourselves, >>not have someone lead us to it, or do it for us. Pace Trotsky, the revoluion is *not* made by teh minority. Dread Lord Deathy. >This is just another way of saying that you dont want social revolution and will therefore doing nothing to advance it. Your >peprspective is nothing but a disguised way of promoting capitalism and maintaining the working class in their present >conditon. Cobblers - I work hard enough towards social revolution, almost continually, and you won't find more vehemently anti-capitalist band than me and my comrades, we've only spent most of our political careers opposing attempts to reform capitalism - our one idea is, after Marx, that we believe that teh social revolution must be made by the workers themselves. I'd prefer evidence advanced rather than ad hominem accusations, maligning my honesty and integrity - call me wrong, but do not call me a liar you fuck, ok? Deathy.
Re: M-TH: Lenin and the working class again
Warm regardsGeorge Pennefather Be free to check out our Communist Think-Tank web site athttp://homepage.eircom.net/~beprepared/ Be free to subscribe to our Communist Think-Tank mailing community bysimply placing subscribe in the body of the message at the following address:mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Socialist Party To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 9:45 AM Subject: Re: M-TH: Lenin and the working class again LO All, George: If the working class is, as you claim, "potentially revolutionary" then there is no guarantee that it can spontaneously turn revolutionary which is why a vanguard party is necessary. You hoist yourself with your own petard. Not at all - who said anything about spontaneously revolutionary? What we have to do is conscientiously and consciously buoild a mass movement for revolution, it won't happen until the working class is willing and conscious for change. How could we have a succesful revolution with a vanguard? Make the programmers work at gun point? It would degenerate into tyranny, it cannot work. the only way the workers can be free is if we consciously free ourselves, not have someone lead us to it, or do it for us. Pace Trotsky, the revoluion is *not* made by teh minority. Dread Lord Deathy. This is just another way of saying that you dont want social revolution and will therefore doing nothing to advance it. Your peprspective is nothing but a disguised way of promoting capitalism and maintaining the working class in their present conditon.
Re: M-TH: Lenin and the working class again
LO All, George: If the working class is, as you claim, "potentially revolutionary" then there is no guarantee that it can spontaneously turn revolutionary which is why a vanguard party is necessary. You hoist yourself with your own petard. Not at all - who said anything about spontaneously revolutionary? What we have to do is conscientiously and consciously buoild a mass movement for revolution, it won't happen until the working class is willing and conscious for change. How could we have a succesful revolution with a vanguard? Make the programmers work at gun point? It would degenerate into tyranny, it cannot work. the only way the workers can be free is if we consciously free ourselves, not have someone lead us to it, or do it for us. Pace Trotsky, the revoluion is *not* made by teh minority. Dread Lord Deathy.
M-TH: Lenin and the working class again
Deathy: Indeed, police officers are workers, but I wouldn't consider a police officer inherently revolution - its absurd as sayign all wopmen are inherently feminist. But, and I do have a big but, we are all potentially revolutionary, and this is why a vanguard is not only udnesirable, but also unnessary, when consciousness and necessity co-incide the revolution will happen - our job here and now is to promote consciousness as widely as possible George: If the working class is, as you claim, "potentially revolutionary" then there is no guarantee that it can spontaneously turn revolutionary which is why a vanguard party is necessary. You hoist yourself with your own petard. Warm regardsGeorge Pennefather Be free to check out our Communist Think-Tank web site athttp://homepage.eircom.net/~beprepared/ Be free to subscribe to our Communist Think-Tank mailing community bysimply placing subscribe in the body of the message at the following address:mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
