Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy

2013-12-26 Thread OK Don
Not that I love the government anymore than anyone else, but how do you attribute this to it? I thought it was the investors focus on quarterly profits, not the long term. The $ is king. On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 6:56 PM, clay wrote: > the US government outsourced all the jobs to low bidders. Th

Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy

2013-12-26 Thread Mountain Man
Dan wrote: > Being laid off is the most demeaning, deprecating thing I have ever > experienced in my life. > I have never experienced being laid off until 30 months ago in an industry that has not gotten out and at an age that shows. Yeah, demeaning, depreciating, depressing, all and many more.

Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy

2013-12-26 Thread Dan Penoff
This is the main reason why I have sacrificed better compensation for job security. After getting RIF'ed from nice, well-paying jobs where companies changed their minds about their management structures on a whim, I found myself in a low paying but very secure position. Two months ago I had a

Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy

2013-12-26 Thread clay
>> Frederick >> Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 8:24 AM >> To: Mercedes Discussion List >> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy >> >> Don't forget that US wages adjusted for inflation have been falling >> since the 70s. Locally skille

Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy

2013-12-26 Thread Craig
On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 19:16:17 -0500 "Scott Ritchey" wrote: > > Should read: > > I think the trees are blinding us to the forest here. The real question > should be "where did the good jobs go, why, and and how do we get some > of them back?" The most interesting part of this question is "why."

Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy

2013-12-25 Thread Andrew Strasfogel
then (or learn an Asian language). > > -Original Message- > From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Rich > Thomas > Sent: Wednesday, December 25, 2013 3:46 AM > To: Mercedes Discussion List > Subject: Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy

Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy

2013-12-25 Thread Scott Ritchey
...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Rich Thomas Sent: Wednesday, December 25, 2013 3:46 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy Interesting fact: in both china and India the top 10% of high school students outnumber ALL high school students in the US. Make of that what

Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy

2013-12-25 Thread Mountain Man
--R wrote: > ...the US will be s screwed. Will? I would guess the momentum *against* the USA is much greater than can be overcome. Why? - still an interesting conversation. We are not only obese in body-mass-index, we are obese in expectation and consumption. Can we lose some expect

Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy

2013-12-25 Thread Rich Thomas
Interesting fact: in both china and India the top 10% of high school students outnumber ALL high school students in the US. Make of that what you might. My take is that if those countries tweak their political, social, legal, and economic structures a bit to encourage entrepreneurial opportuni

Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy

2013-12-24 Thread Rick Knoble
On Dec 24, 2013, at 6:16 PM, "Scott Ritchey" wrote: > Should read: > > > I think the trees are blinding us to the forest here. The real question > should be "where did the good jobs go? Overseas. China foremost. India, Vietnam, Korea, Mexico... > why? Unfavorable work rules in the US as opp

Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy

2013-12-24 Thread Scott Ritchey
edes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Scott > Ritchey > Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 5:58 PM > To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' > Subject: Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy > > > I think the trees are blinding us to the forest here. Th

Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy

2013-12-24 Thread Scott Ritchey
sage- > From: Peter > Frederick > Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 8:24 AM > To: Mercedes Discussion List > Subject: Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy > > Don't forget that US wages adjusted for inflation have been falling > since the 70s. Locally skill

Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy

2013-12-24 Thread OK Don
Don't forget that those services used by that two earner family are providing more employment for others. They'd be without a job if mom stayed home and did all that herself. On Tue, Dec 24, 2013 at 1:25 AM, Scott Ritchey wrote: > > Don't forget that all this additional "economic activity", lik

Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy

2013-12-24 Thread Mountain Man
Gary wrote: > your move I'm done. I didn't save money - what me worry? I did 7 times as many kids as you. But mom taught at home and cooked at home and we rent home. Early social might provide some $$ but I don't really know, nor do I know if the Potters in DC want to leave that system alone. I

Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy

2013-12-24 Thread Gary Hurst
i can one up you on this. i am a single dad receiving no child support but ordered to pay my ex wife 4 figures a month in child support for a child who lives with me and my ex wife has five times my income. and no one in the entire state of georgia thinks this even sounds unusual your move On

Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy

2013-12-24 Thread Rick Knoble
On Dec 24, 2013, at 7:24 AM, "Peter Frederick" wrote: > You can live pretty well on a single industrial income in America if you are > lucky and get one of the few good jobs left, but the majority of people > simply cannot. Most people cannot survive, let alone retire, on the > prevailing wag

Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy

2013-12-24 Thread Peter Frederick
Don't forget that US wages adjusted for inflation have been falling since the 70s. Locally skilled worker wages have been unchanged since the 80's -- people are making exactly what they were 30 years ago, which of course means they HAVE to have everyone in the family working to have a plac

Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy

2013-12-24 Thread Tim Crone
On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 10:21 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote: > From what I hear the better part of the faculty has decided to give up >> tenure. >> >> Dan >> > > I htink that has an untended double meaning. > I doubt it was unintended... Best, Tim ___

Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy

2013-12-24 Thread Tim Crone
On Mon, Dec 23, 2013 at 8:50 PM, Richard Hattaway wrote: > Those days are gone except in small Asian rim countries wait a > minute, who is it that's kicking our ass in education these days.. Us, > who were once at the top are now in the teens.. North Carolina education is > the 48th wors

Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy

2013-12-23 Thread Scott Ritchey
a piece of the action (e.g. taxes, inspectors, regulators, etc). -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Richard Hattaway Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 8:51 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy T

Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy

2013-12-23 Thread clay
SWMBA was not impressed with her middle school teacher, so she organized the children and parents. There was pressure put on the school to remedy the situation, and the teacher was removed. No idea where that teacher went, but it was not to either highschool or other location in town. Then ag

Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy

2013-12-23 Thread Gary Hurst
absolutely, scott. once women were admitted into higher university positions, law, highest levels of medicine, etc, it was all over for public school teaching. i had a teacher in HS who was the top student in her masters class in history at columbia university but could not get accepted into a Ph

Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy

2013-12-23 Thread Richard Hattaway
Two folks in the home going to work = higher discretionary  income Higher discretionary income = eventual higher prices ( cars, homes ) as a function of capitalism Higher prices = requirement for two incomes Two income requirement = kids raised in mass storage facilities Kids raised in mass storag

Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy

2013-12-23 Thread Mountain Man
Dan wrote: > I would also add that Contructivism is the flavor of the month for now. This > is the experiential style of learning promoted by Montessori, Piaget and > Dewey. > Yes. That is what I mean by touchy feely. Data be damned. Data does not drive the education process, rather it is use

Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy

2013-12-23 Thread Mountain Man
Scott wrote: > I blame it on women's lib. ... > ...most mothers then were home makers. Now, it seems mothers > need to work but mainly so they can afford to buy crap that isn't really > needed. Folks have been brainwashed to believe they and their kids NEED all > kinds of stuff that didn't even e

Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy

2013-12-23 Thread Scott Ritchey
; From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dan > Penoff > Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2013 10:04 PM > To: Mercedes Discussion List > Subject: Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy > > There is nothing cliche about the theories behind teaching methodologies. >

Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy

2013-12-23 Thread Scott Ritchey
I blame it on women's lib. Back in my day (50s and early 60s) I benefitted from many superb women teachers in public schools. I suspect most of them were there (vs running fortune 500 corporations) because education was the best avenue open to them as dedicated, educated women. But that's only

Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy

2013-12-22 Thread Dieselhead
From what I hear the better part of the faculty has decided to give up tenure. Dan I htink that has an untended double meaning. I think Dan meant that most of the the faculty decided to give up tenure for raises. The other meaning is exactly as written. The better part of the faculty, as

Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy

2013-12-22 Thread Gary Hurst
what is the methodology of losing student's tests and then giving them zeros for those tests and then being supported by the administration? the words are just bullshit that are spouted to confuse people and maintain this status quo i've never seen any methodology at the public school, just rheto

Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy

2013-12-22 Thread Dan Penoff
There is nothing cliche about the theories behind teaching methodologies. I would agree with what you say, but the problem starts at the top - the administration. As for Richard's comment about tenure, it no longer exists in our district. Effective this coming January our teachers go on an eva

Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy

2013-12-22 Thread Richard Hattaway
"cliches just cover for a lack of core competence in many public school teachers" Cliches and tenure, actually... ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:

Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy

2013-12-22 Thread Gary Hurst
my kid's english teacher can barely read. abby has to explain what words mean to her as she has a very limited vocabulary. this teacher is bad tempered and loses student's tests, then gives them a zero as a grade when she can't find a test. the school administration bends over backwards to prote

Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy

2013-12-22 Thread Dan Penoff
I would also add that Contructivism is the flavor of the month for now. This is the experiential style of learning promoted by Montessori, Piaget and Dewey. Just like the stock market, the pendulum will swing in the other direction in the future and Behaviorism (B.F. Skinner, Itard, etc.) will

Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy

2013-12-22 Thread Dan Penoff
It's by no means "touchy-feely" any more. It's all data driven. I see kindergarten teachers with 3" binders full of data they have collected on individual students. It's all about the data now. Dan On Dec 22, 2013, at 8:43 PM, Mountain Man wrote: > Dieselhead wrote: >> But the prior post a

Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy

2013-12-22 Thread Mountain Man
Dieselhead wrote: > But the prior post about "the 'merkuns didn't want to know.." or something > to that effect is not true. FDR installed Deming to make the 'merkun war > production hum. Loss of Deming/SPC methods seems evident in the education arena. Correct? It seems that everything has turne

Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy

2013-12-22 Thread Dieselhead
Deming was all about process control -- the theory that if you calibrate manufacturing equipment and get a really good handle on what changes in the equipment produce what results, you can adjust on the fly to keep making high quality, proper sized, etc parts rather than making a billion parts

Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy

2013-12-21 Thread Peter Frederick
Deming was all about process control -- the theory that if you calibrate manufacturing equipment and get a really good handle on what changes in the equipment produce what results, you can adjust on the fly to keep making high quality, proper sized, etc parts rather than making a billion pa

Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy

2013-12-21 Thread Mountain Man
Peter wrote: > Totally pointless, and can cripple an organization, but it's the norm. The > Japanese used to have about 1/15th the number of managers a similar american > business had, for instance. Demming was not liked in US so he went to Japan. I guess this means US still does not like Demmin

Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy

2013-12-21 Thread Peter Frederick
Gross over-administration is a problem across America. Taught in business schools, accepted as Gospel everywhere. Totally pointless, and can cripple an organization, but it's the norm. The Japanese used to have about 1/15th the number of managers a similar american business had, for insta

Re: [MBZ] Civil Service, Oh Yeah! qa9uqavy

2013-12-21 Thread Mitch Haley
Larry T wrote: I believe the huge salaries spent on administrative staff at schools would be better spent on the teachers. A friend of mine who taught from 1962-1994 said "get a 1960 budget, and calculate the percentage spent on teachers. Now get a modern budget and see what percentage is spent