Re: [MBZ] Bad gas recourse - was Saab stranded me in cold
One thing I haven't heard yet is that some gas stations may not adequately remove the water that has collected in their tanks from condensation. Yes, gas station tanks also collect water from condensation. When I operated stations, we had to pump the water out every few weeks. We had a dipstick onto which we applied water detector (in a tube like toothpaste). The detector was blue and would turn red up to the level of the water. We had a small pump with a long suction that drew from the bottom of the tank. It would remove the water in 5-10 minutes. I have no idea if modern stations even do this. BTW, I did get a tank full of bad gas a few years ago. It cost about $1000 by the time the fuel system was cleaned and repaired. Tom Potter -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Loren Faeth Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 12:54 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bad gas recourse - was Saab stranded me in cold uh. Yes It only takes a thimbleful of water. At 12:19 PM 1/19/2007, you wrote: Could the gas really be bad enough to cause my engine to flat quit? Leeee.. I own a gas station. I pay a buck 90 or so for gas. Gas has ethanol in it. Ethanol will suspend water. Water costs 3 or so cents per gallon. How could I increase my profit margin? I work on slim margins. hmmm What if I add water to the storage tank? Cheap, easy, and more bucks. All I have to do is figger out how much water i can put in the tank, based on how much water the alcohol will suspend, and the %alcohol in the gas... Now, what if this rube or the rube at the gasoline distributor put in a little more water than the alcohol can suspend? Or the station rube put in water but didn't know the distributor had already added water? Then there is condensation etc... Zoltan is stranded Saab won't run Recourse? add some de-icer to the tank, thaw out the Saab and go on. Anything else is a waste of time. Loren Faeth ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Bad gas recourse - was Saab stranded me in cold
Water is not the only thing that can contaminate fuel, just the most likely to shut you down in sub freezing weather a few minutes after fueling. Most other contamination is rust, dirt, or other petro products mixed in by mistake or whatever. I'd still guess your problem could be rust/crud but is still better than 90% likely to be water in the fuel. Gassers can also benefit from a water separator/ultra filter ala Racor or Masterfilter just as Diesels can. Sorry if I offended you. I didn't intend to I WAS taking potshots at the perto distribution and sales system. Most of these people are good, honest folks, but it only takes one to shut you down. I have had my share of bad fuel. Loren At 05:24 PM 1/19/2007, you wrote: Thank you for your succinct information. I didn't know that water was the only thing that could contaminate gasoline. Since it is, my car's prognosis is much better. Brian On 1/19/07, Loren Faeth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: uh. Yes It only takes a thimbleful of water. At 12:19 PM 1/19/2007, you wrote: Could the gas really be bad enough to cause my engine to flat quit? Leeee.. I own a gas station. I pay a buck 90 or so for gas. Gas has ethanol in it. Ethanol will suspend water. Water costs 3 or so cents per gallon. How could I increase my profit margin? I work on slim margins. hmmm What if I add water to the storage tank? Cheap, easy, and more bucks. All I have to do is figger out how much water i can put in the tank, based on how much water the alcohol will suspend, and the %alcohol in the gas... Now, what if this rube or the rube at the gasoline distributor put in a little more water than the alcohol can suspend? Or the station rube put in water but didn't know the distributor had already added water? Then there is condensation etc... Zoltan is stranded Saab won't run Recourse? add some de-icer to the tank, thaw out the Saab and go on. Anything else is a waste of time. Loren Faeth ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Loren Faeth
Re: [MBZ] Bad gas recourse - was Saab stranded me in cold
Nah, I'm just feeling in a smart arse mood. I did guess though, by your theory about petro stations and distributors that you'd gotten bad petro before. That has to be frustrating. I have no doubt that that sort of doping of the tanks goes on. Back when I was obsessed with my car, (read muscle car, and a kid with nothing better to do), my fellow gear-heads and I theorized about the best type of gas out there and we tried to frequent those stations. We would never get fuel from a convenience store. We also would avoid fueling up if the big gas truck was there filling up the tanks, as we thought this would cause the stirring up of the debris in the tanks and it would be more likely at that time to make its way into your car's tank. Brian On 1/19/07, Loren Faeth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Water is not the only thing that can contaminate fuel, just the most likely to shut you down in sub freezing weather a few minutes after fueling. Most other contamination is rust, dirt, or other petro products mixed in by mistake or whatever. I'd still guess your problem could be rust/crud but is still better than 90% likely to be water in the fuel. Gassers can also benefit from a water separator/ultra filter ala Racor or Masterfilter just as Diesels can. Sorry if I offended you. I didn't intend to I WAS taking potshots at the perto distribution and sales system. Most of these people are good, honest folks, but it only takes one to shut you down. I have had my share of bad fuel. Loren At 05:24 PM 1/19/2007, you wrote: Thank you for your succinct information. I didn't know that water was the only thing that could contaminate gasoline. Since it is, my car's prognosis is much better. Brian On 1/19/07, Loren Faeth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: uh. Yes It only takes a thimbleful of water. At 12:19 PM 1/19/2007, you wrote: Could the gas really be bad enough to cause my engine to flat quit? Leeee.. I own a gas station. I pay a buck 90 or so for gas. Gas has ethanol in it. Ethanol will suspend water. Water costs 3 or so cents per gallon. How could I increase my profit margin? I work on slim margins. hmmm What if I add water to the storage tank? Cheap, easy, and more bucks. All I have to do is figger out how much water i can put in the tank, based on how much water the alcohol will suspend, and the %alcohol in the gas... Now, what if this rube or the rube at the gasoline distributor put in a little more water than the alcohol can suspend? Or the station rube put in water but didn't know the distributor had already added water? Then there is condensation etc... Zoltan is stranded Saab won't run Recourse? add some de-icer to the tank, thaw out the Saab and go on. Anything else is a waste of time. Loren Faeth ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Loren Faeth ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Bad gas recourse - was Saab stranded me in cold
Could the gas really be bad enough to cause my engine to flat quit? I remember many years ago when my dad's '73 VW bug quit about 3 miles from the station where he filled it up. We had to go pick him up and have the car towed. The station drained the tank and got it running again, but after that, he had to change fuel filters every few tanks like clockwork. Kevin in Hillsboro, OR 1983 300SD 266K miles, Ursula
Re: [MBZ] Bad gas recourse - was Saab stranded me in cold
Could the gas really be bad enough to cause my engine to flat quit? I think so. Either by slugging the FI system with water, or by just plain clogging up the filter. Don't modern EFI systems run high volume/pressure and return quite a lot to the tank? -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Bad gas recourse - was Saab stranded me in cold
I don't know, but I was under the impression that modern systems used pretty high pressure. I do know that the fuel injection system on this '84 Saab is an older type - I think they switched the next year to something more advanced. There is actually a neoprene-type hose running to each cylinder on this car. I think the system is more manual than the more modern type. I heard that this system is not looked upon favorably by enthusiasts. Nary a problem before this one though. Brian On 1/20/07, Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Could the gas really be bad enough to cause my engine to flat quit? I think so. Either by slugging the FI system with water, or by just plain clogging up the filter. Don't modern EFI systems run high volume/pressure and return quite a lot to the tank? -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Bad gas recourse - was Saab stranded me in cold
On Fri, 19 Jan 2007, Jim Cathey wrote: Could the gas really be bad enough to cause my engine to flat quit? I think so. Either by slugging the FI system with water, or by just plain clogging up the filter. Don't modern EFI systems run high volume/pressure and return quite a lot to the tank? When I got that loaner car with water in the tank, it refused to run after sitting all night in sub-freezing temperatures. It would fire while I was cranking it but it wouldn't stay lit. The next afternoon, when things warmed up a little, I coaxed it into running and immediately drove it to a gas station to dump in some drygas and fill the tank.
[MBZ] Bad gas recourse - was Saab stranded me in cold
If it does seem to be bad gas, let me ask: How many of you have been through that, and what recourse do we have, and how did you we best go about pursuing it? I mean besides going in there and chewing the cashier out. I wish there was a way to find out if there have been other complaints regarding the same station. Could the gas really be bad enough to cause my engine to flat quit? Brian talking about saab '84 900 Jim wrote: Can you say 'bad gas'? Fillup followed by a stalled engine a few miles down the road is classic.
Re: [MBZ] Bad gas recourse - was Saab stranded me in cold
uh. Yes It only takes a thimbleful of water. At 12:19 PM 1/19/2007, you wrote: Could the gas really be bad enough to cause my engine to flat quit? Leeee.. I own a gas station. I pay a buck 90 or so for gas. Gas has ethanol in it. Ethanol will suspend water. Water costs 3 or so cents per gallon. How could I increase my profit margin? I work on slim margins. hmmm What if I add water to the storage tank? Cheap, easy, and more bucks. All I have to do is figger out how much water i can put in the tank, based on how much water the alcohol will suspend, and the %alcohol in the gas... Now, what if this rube or the rube at the gasoline distributor put in a little more water than the alcohol can suspend? Or the station rube put in water but didn't know the distributor had already added water? Then there is condensation etc... Zoltan is stranded Saab won't run Recourse? add some de-icer to the tank, thaw out the Saab and go on. Anything else is a waste of time. Loren Faeth
Re: [MBZ] Bad gas recourse - was Saab stranded me in cold
Thank you for your succinct information. I didn't know that water was the only thing that could contaminate gasoline. Since it is, my car's prognosis is much better. Brian On 1/19/07, Loren Faeth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: uh. Yes It only takes a thimbleful of water. At 12:19 PM 1/19/2007, you wrote: Could the gas really be bad enough to cause my engine to flat quit? Leeee.. I own a gas station. I pay a buck 90 or so for gas. Gas has ethanol in it. Ethanol will suspend water. Water costs 3 or so cents per gallon. How could I increase my profit margin? I work on slim margins. hmmm What if I add water to the storage tank? Cheap, easy, and more bucks. All I have to do is figger out how much water i can put in the tank, based on how much water the alcohol will suspend, and the %alcohol in the gas... Now, what if this rube or the rube at the gasoline distributor put in a little more water than the alcohol can suspend? Or the station rube put in water but didn't know the distributor had already added water? Then there is condensation etc... Zoltan is stranded Saab won't run Recourse? add some de-icer to the tank, thaw out the Saab and go on. Anything else is a waste of time. Loren Faeth ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
