Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
The Leaf is one fugly car. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
From the outside ;) Sent from my iPhone On Aug 16, 2014, at 2:06 AM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: The Leaf is one fugly car. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
And more importantly one fu**ing pointless car with a realistic range of 60-80 miles. Sent from my iPhone On Aug 16, 2014, at 2:06 AM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: The Leaf is one fugly car. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
I agree with that. A lot of electric car craze is feel good environmentalism. 38% of power still comes from coal. I will stick with ULSD no illusions. On Aug 16, 2014 9:37 AM, dseretakis--- via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: And more importantly one fu**ing pointless car with a realistic range of 60-80 miles. Sent from my iPhone On Aug 16, 2014, at 2:06 AM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: The Leaf is one fugly car. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
dseretakis--- via Mercedes wrote: And more importantly one fu**ing pointless car with a realistic range of 60-80 miles. Would have worked great when I lived 17 miles from work. That would have given me enough excess capacity to use the climate control without overly discharging the battery. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
38% of power still comes from coal. Here in WA it's something like 80% hydroelectric. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
Once again, no one vehicle is right/best for all mission profiles. An electric car is fine for most urban driving. One would be fine for my wife's trips into town every week where she drives an average of 25 - 30 miles round trip. It would not be good for a road trip - that's what Diesels are for! We have the Passat which is OK for driving into town at 35 mpg, but better for road trips. I just got 49 mpg dropping our son at the airport - a 65 mile round trip - and have seen 53 mpg where the speed limits are lower (MI). The F150 gets horrible mileage (18), but it's the only reasonable way for me to haul fuel for the airplane and rocks/gravel for the wife. On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 8:37 AM, dseretakis--- via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: And more importantly one fu**ing pointless car with a realistic range of 60-80 miles. -- OK Don NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens! There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers* 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
The problem is that then your existence becomes regimented. Suppose you decide on your commute back that you need to stop by place X or some urgent matter comes up and you need to drive to place Y? You have to drive home and swap cars. Majorly inconvenient if you ask me. Until an electric car can be developed with a real range I don't have any interest in buying one. Sent from my iPhone On Aug 16, 2014, at 9:53 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: dseretakis--- via Mercedes wrote: And more importantly one fu**ing pointless car with a realistic range of 60-80 miles. Would have worked great when I lived 17 miles from work. That would have given me enough excess capacity to use the climate control without overly discharging the battery. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
One hundred years ago electric cars were a common sight on city streets in Europe and the United States. Many of them had a range comparable to that of today's EV's http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2010/05/the-status-quo-of-electric-cars-better-batteries-same-range.html. Below is an overview of early electrics and their specifications, put together from sales catalogs and books: http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/overview-of-early-electric-cars.html . On 8/16/2014 9:37 AM, dseretakis--- via Mercedes wrote: And more importantly one fu**ing pointless car with a realistic range of 60-80 miles. On Aug 16, 2014, at 2:06 AM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: The Leaf is one fugly car. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
That's the one thing I think I would find an EV to be a PITA for. While I rarely stop on the way home for anything, if I need to I need to, and it would be really inconvenient to have to go home and swap cars just because I wouldn't have the range to make a side trip. Dan On Aug 16, 2014, at 11:06 AM, dseretakis--- via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: The problem is that then your existence becomes regimented. Suppose you decide on your commute back that you need to stop by place X or some urgent matter comes up and you need to drive to place Y? You have to drive home and swap cars. Majorly inconvenient if you ask me. Until an electric car can be developed with a real range I don't have any interest in buying one. Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
And the sole coal plant is being retrofitted to NG in a few years. The coal trains that supplied it are now being repurposed to load ships headed to the orient. Wind farms are sprouting up all over the state. Natural gas plants are not getting built, but solar is growing, and the older hydro facilities are being removed. Blame Warren Buffet. Buffet purchased the trains that haul the coal. He scooped up the local mega power company. I would not be surprised if he has a fleet of ships to take coal east. Or, that he has an investment interest in building the new nuke plants being planned out here. clay On Aug 16, 2014, at 7:03 AM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes wrote: 38% of power still comes from coal. Here in WA it's something like 80% hydroelectric. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
As usual, follow the money... LarryT On 8/16/2014 3:58 PM, clay via Mercedes wrote: And the sole coal plant is being retrofitted to NG in a few years. The coal trains that supplied it are now being repurposed to load ships headed to the orient. Wind farms are sprouting up all over the state. Natural gas plants are not getting built, but solar is growing, and the older hydro facilities are being removed. Blame Warren Buffet. Buffet purchased the trains that haul the coal. He scooped up the local mega power company. I would not be surprised if he has a fleet of ships to take coal east. Or, that he has an investment interest in building the new nuke plants being planned out here. clay On Aug 16, 2014, at 7:03 AM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes wrote: 38% of power still comes from coal. Here in WA it's something like 80% hydroelectric. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege point
I think you lot are missing the point somewhat, the leaf et al are aimed more at the short commute market, which is more typical of Europe, Japan and inner suburbia I suppose. Also Australia has bugger all oil but loads of coal, so on the basis of sustainability it would make sense to have EVs in Oz and we do have variance in commuter times but the issue still persists that upfront costs are too high. My take is that cashed up folks with an environmental consensuses are they target demographics for these things. Hendrik who is sending this message on a computer powered by mostly coal On 17/08/14 01:04, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote: That's the one thing I think I would find an EV to be a PITA for. While I rarely stop on the way home for anything, if I need to I need to, and it would be really inconvenient to have to go home and swap cars just because I wouldn't have the range to make a side trip. Dan On Aug 16, 2014, at 11:06 AM, dseretakis--- via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: The problem is that then your existence becomes regimented. Suppose you decide on your commute back that you need to stop by place X or some urgent matter comes up and you need to drive to place Y? You have to drive home and swap cars. Majorly inconvenient if you ask me. Until an electric car can be developed with a real range I don't have any interest in buying one. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
snark As I was taught in ROTC - PP (prior planning prevents piss poor performance). /snark On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 10:06 AM, dseretakis--- via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: The problem is that then your existence becomes regimented. Suppose you decide on your commute back that you need to stop by place X or some urgent matter comes up and you need to drive to place Y? You have to drive home and swap cars. Majorly inconvenient if you ask me. Until an electric car can be developed with a real range I don't have any interest in buying one. Sent from my iPhone -- OK Don NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens! There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers* 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
I don't see any direct suggestion in my statement that government should own and run nuclear power plants. I am saying that there should be...continuous critical oversight...of whichever organization is running the plant. Private Industry has a poor history of building, maintaining, and running nuclear power plants in the U.S. I have no idea what the solution is, but I do think there should be far more oversight considering the near disasters we have had so far. Gerrywho lives about 10 miles from what is left of the Crystal River Nuclear Power Plant which was destroyed by corporate management focused primarily on profit; all because there was not critical oversight. .. On 8/13/2014 6:22 AM, LarryT via Mercedes wrote: Private industry?   Surely you aren't saying government run industry doesn't need the same or even greater oversight? Sorry, but I am not very trusting of government organizations LarryT On 8/12/2014 7:24 PM, Archer75--- via Mercedes wrote: Exactly, and continuous critical oversight so long as private industry is owning and running the plants. Here's an example of what can happen when a power companies bottom line overrules all else: http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/energy/progress-energy-warned-itself-not-to-self-manage-crystal-river-nuclear/1205579 Gerry On 8/12/2014 6:11 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote: No Randy, more like the French model, using a proven standardized design capable of efficiently and safely providing decades of power. If we also followed their example and re-processed our fuel rods, the radioactive waste left after 20 years of generating power for a family of four would fit in a coke can. Here's the best part: no CO2!!! Compared to coal, which not only releases tons of CO2 into the air, but also TONS of radioactive uranium and thorium, nuclear power is the only viable answer for those truly concerned about the environment. Max Dillon, Charleston SC On Aug 12, 2014 4:42 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: On 12/08/2014 3:30 PM, LarryT via Mercedes wrote: I'd like to see nuclear construction get started again LarryT Yeah, with some cut price offshore contractors and maybe that cement from China that they used in that bridge on the west coast. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
Crystal River is one of the poster children of the commercial nuke industry for mismanagement on the part of the operator, in my opinion. Because profit was a part of the equation, there was an incentive to cut corners, which they did. Now the current operator is faced with decommissioning and is attempting to recoup their costs on the backs of consumers. Wrong! Duke Power is pretty evil from a corporate standpoint as far as I'm concerned. Florida Power, the previous owner who pooched the attempted repairs on the place is just as bad, I think. Where's Bob in this conversation? Dan who's in-laws used to live within sight of Crystal River Sent from my iPad On Aug 14, 2014, at 4:05 AM, Archer75--- via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: I don't see any direct suggestion in my statement that government should own and run nuclear power plants. I am saying that there should be...continuous critical oversight...of whichever organization is running the plant. Private Industry has a poor history of building, maintaining, and running nuclear power plants in the U.S. I have no idea what the solution is, but I do think there should be far more oversight considering the near disasters we have had so far. Gerrywho lives about 10 miles from what is left of the Crystal River Nuclear Power Plant which was destroyed by corporate management focused primarily on profit; all because there was not critical oversight. .. On 8/13/2014 6:22 AM, LarryT via Mercedes wrote: Private industry?   Surely you aren't saying government run industry doesn't need the same or even greater oversight? Sorry, but I am not very trusting of government organizations LarryT On 8/12/2014 7:24 PM, Archer75--- via Mercedes wrote: Exactly, and continuous critical oversight so long as private industry is owning and running the plants. Here's an example of what can happen when a power companies bottom line overrules all else: http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/energy/progress-energy-warned-itself-not-to-self-manage-crystal-river-nuclear/1205579 Gerry On 8/12/2014 6:11 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote: No Randy, more like the French model, using a proven standardized design capable of efficiently and safely providing decades of power. If we also followed their example and re-processed our fuel rods, the radioactive waste left after 20 years of generating power for a family of four would fit in a coke can. Here's the best part: no CO2!!! Compared to coal, which not only releases tons of CO2 into the air, but also TONS of radioactive uranium and thorium, nuclear power is the only viable answer for those truly concerned about the environment. Max Dillon, Charleston SC On Aug 12, 2014 4:42 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: On 12/08/2014 3:30 PM, LarryT via Mercedes wrote: I'd lik ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
It would suit me fine if all construction were mandated to be 100% USA sourced - manpower and materials. Actually, Nuclear Constructions requires documentation on materials from cradle to grave - with varying degrees of completeness of documentation depending on the location of the materials. That tends to prevent the kind of materials hanky panky but of course, documents can always be counterfeited but we must depend quality control specialists to be watchdogs. There are lots of protections in the industry but they always depend on people Larry On 8/12/2014 4:42 PM, Randy Bennell wrote: On 12/08/2014 3:30 PM, LarryT via Mercedes wrote: I'd like to see nuclear construction get started again LarryT Yeah, with some cut price offshore contractors and maybe that cement from China that they used in that bridge on the west coast. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
Private industry?Surely you aren't saying government run industry doesn't need the same or even greater oversight? Sorry, but I am not very trusting of government organizations LarryT On 8/12/2014 7:24 PM, Archer75--- via Mercedes wrote: Exactly, and continuous critical oversight so long as private industry is owning and running the plants. Here's an example of what can happen when a power companies bottom line overrules all else: http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/energy/progress-energy-warned-itself-not-to-self-manage-crystal-river-nuclear/1205579 Gerry On 8/12/2014 6:11 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote: No Randy, more like the French model, using a proven standardized design capable of efficiently and safely providing decades of power. If we also followed their example and re-processed our fuel rods, the radioactive waste left after 20 years of generating power for a family of four would fit in a coke can. Here's the best part: no CO2!!! Compared to coal, which not only releases tons of CO2 into the air, but also TONS of radioactive uranium and thorium, nuclear power is the only viable answer for those truly concerned about the environment. Max Dillon, Charleston SC On Aug 12, 2014 4:42 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: On 12/08/2014 3:30 PM, LarryT via Mercedes wrote: I'd like to see nuclear construction get started again LarryT Yeah, with some cut price offshore contractors and maybe that cement from China that they used in that bridge on the west coast. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
Which adds to the costs and opens more doors to corruption. There is no perfect solution. If we do go nuclear, I think we need to go to thorium (?) rather than uranium. IIRC, it has always been a better solution, but didn't get developed because it can't be weaponized (unlike the habanero peppers from Africa that we are now growing). On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 5:07 AM, LarryT via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Actually, Nuclear Constructions requires documentation on materials from cradle to grave - with varying degrees of completeness of documentation depending on the location of the materials. That tends to prevent the kind of materials hanky panky but of course, documents can always be counterfeited but we must depend quality control specialists to be watchdogs. There are lots of protections in the industry but they always depend on people Larry -- OK Don NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens! There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers* 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
All this back and forth about energy. Wars fought and blood and treasure lost over energy. In the end, we run out of it, or poison ourselves out of existance. Then we revert back to camp fires, tribes, and subsistence survival, until we do it all over again in a few hundred generations. Why not throw away everything now and just go tribal. Eat your neighbors, until there are none, burn your worthless houses to heat yourself and cook, since they can't be heated or cooled with the decline of the grid and it's support. Well isn't that what is being suggested as the end result anyway? Why wait.. get in early.. go caveman. Grant... Who believes society discusses problems.. Individuals solve them. On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 8:43 AM, OK Don via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Which adds to the costs and opens more doors to corruption. There is no perfect solution. If we do go nuclear, I think we need to go to thorium (?) rather than uranium. IIRC, it has always been a better solution, but didn't get developed because it can't be weaponized (unlike the habanero peppers from Africa that we are now growing). On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 5:07 AM, LarryT via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Actually, Nuclear Constructions requires documentation on materials from cradle to grave - with varying degrees of completeness of documentation depending on the location of the materials. That tends to prevent the kind of materials hanky panky but of course, documents can always be counterfeited but we must depend quality control specialists to be watchdogs. There are lots of protections in the industry but they always depend on people Larry -- OK Don NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens! There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers* 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
Larry, The U.S. Navy has run nuclear reactors on submarines and other warships for decades, accident free. Not easy to translate that success to a civilian agency, and certainly not nearly as cost-efficient as private industry. My point is that nuclear power can be done safely and provide clean electrical power at very competitive costs, but in our country the debate has been completely subverted by hysterics and fear-mongers. Even at Fukishima, the second most serious nuclear accident to date, there were zero deaths from radiation. A hand-full of workers received very high radiation doses, and another hundred or so are at increased risk for cancer. Two or three died from physical trauma from the tsunami, not from radiation. The tsunami which caused that accident is a once-in-a-thousand years event (and the tsunami itself killed over 10,000 people). The Fukishima site had been identified as requiring additional tsunami counter-measures, but the regulatory agency and the site operator had not decided to implement those counter-measures when the tsunami struck. In other words, keeping a little perspective, the natural disaster caused over 10,000 deaths, and it also made a mess of the nuclear reactors. The nuclear reactors will take time and lots of money to clean up, but those 10,000+ dead can never be brought back. The article that Gerry linked to the Tampa issue, again no one has died, just a big mess to clean up at great expense. Clearly the decision-makers and CEO of that plant need to all be fired, and I think the investors need to pay for the repairs, but again let's keep some perspective: No one has died from radiation. Fear-mongering about nuclear power by the enviro-wackos will only cause MORE people to die early from inhaling the radioactive particles spewed into the air by our coal power-plants. -Max On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 6:22 AM, LarryT via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Private industry?Surely you aren't saying government run industry doesn't need the same or even greater oversight? Sorry, but I am not very trusting of government organizations LarryT ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
The mob used to provide a lower grade concrete product when they ran the industry. clay On Aug 13, 2014, at 3:07 AM, LarryT via Mercedes wrote: It would suit me fine if all construction were mandated to be 100% USA sourced - manpower and materials. Actually, Nuclear Constructions requires documentation on materials from cradle to grave - with varying degrees of completeness of documentation depending on the location of the materials. That tends to prevent the kind of materials hanky panky but of course, documents can always be counterfeited but we must depend quality control specialists to be watchdogs. There are lots of protections in the industry but they always depend on people Larry On 8/12/2014 4:42 PM, Randy Bennell wrote: On 12/08/2014 3:30 PM, LarryT via Mercedes wrote: I'd like to see nuclear construction get started again LarryT Yeah, with some cut price offshore contractors and maybe that cement from China that they used in that bridge on the west coast. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
See Big Dig in Boston! --R On 8/13/14 4:54 PM, clay via Mercedes wrote: The mob used to provide a lower grade concrete product when they ran the industry. clay ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
I've heated my house without the grid before. In the fall I go out in the morning and pick up a bundle of sticks to make a fire. It cleans up the forest, gets me a little exercise and heats the house for no money. Curt Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
On 13/08/2014 5:04 PM, curtludwig--- via Mercedes wrote: I've heated my house without the grid before. In the fall I go out in the morning and pick up a bundle of sticks to make a fire. It cleans up the forest, gets me a little exercise and heats the house for no money. Curt Well, depending on just how cold it is and how deep the snow is, it takes a bit of planning to heat with wood. It takes a fair amount of effort to do it well and there are those who would say that wood smoke is a pollutant too. My parents heated with wood for many years. I cannot say, in retrospect, that they did it well but they did it. The house should have been better insulated and the stove should have been more centralized. It should also have been a better stove. Some sort of Rumford (???) type thing with lots of masonry to soak up the heat might have been a good idea. The wood should have been better prepared so it was drier and it they should have had a shed of some sort to store it in. It can be done but it is a whole lot easier and cleaner to use a natural gas furnace if you live where the gas is available. Wood is not cheap either if you buy it. My mother was still using wood after my father passed away and she would buy a semi trailer load of birch in 8 foot lengths. She and an old fellow who was willing to help her out would cut it into stove lengths and then put it through the splitter and pile it. I think she was paying over $700 for a trailer load more than 20 years ago. If you haul in your own wood, then you need time and equipment to do it and you either need acreage or you need to be able to buy it or you need friends with acreage who are willing to have you remove trees etc. My father had a sawmill and logged pretty much every winter so he just cut some firewood as well, but mostly he did it as we needed it so it was not usually very dry. We also had slabs from the mill but they tended to burn too fast. In order to have a fire last over night one needs the right type and size of wood for the stove. At one point they were using a stove my father made out of a 45 gallon drum. We still have the big hydraulic wood splitter that he built. It is not really a thing of beauty but it sure will split wood. I can remember a lot of wood being split with an axe however. And it pretty will all got cut with a chain saw so again, a lot of work. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
I bought wood twice, once right when we moved in and once when I got a real good deal on green wood mid-winter. Mostly I get stuff for free here and there. Got a pickup load 2 weeks ago of good dry maple. Needs splitting but that relaxes my shoulders. The neighbor has a couple spruces I should get out and cut. Mix it in with the maple and it'll be fine, especially if its good and dry. I have a Jotul 118 which is a good heavy cast iron stove with secondary combustion air, very little smoke out of the stack if the wood is dry. Our house is only 1000sq/ft, the stove sits in the basement and heats most of the house pretty well. The bedroom is farthest away from the stove so stays pretty cool which is mostly what you'd want anyway. Yeah its a lot of work but I think much of the loss of our society is due to things being too easy and people not building enough character through hard work. I play with white gas stoves and lanterns too remember, propane is certainly easier but it has no soul. As I think of it turning on the radio is also easy but playing an instrument is way more fulfilling. -Curt From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca To: curtlud...@yahoo.com curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 6:41 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege It can be done but it is a whole lot easier and cleaner to use a natural gas furnace if you live where the gas is available. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
Fmiser via Mercedes wrote: That's fine on paper - but the EPA is making it really difficult to get _any_ new generators built. Around here they have been trying to add base-load capacity but either can't or can't-because-it's-to-expensive. And that's why many utilities will pay you money to get an Energy Star refrigerator. What struck me as funny 20 years ago was that Consumers here in Michigan was implementing conservation programs (they weren't yet desperate enough to pay you to conserve) and Illinois Power was mailing out 8w night lights to all their customers. Consumers was trying to avoid summer brownouts from undercapacity, IP was trying to increase base load so they could generate more of their power at their base load cost. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
On 11/08/2014 6:21 PM, Tim Crone via Mercedes wrote: On Aug 11, 2014 2:22 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: I think there was also a state rebate of some sort that was a matter of controversy, in addition to the fed rebate. My manager just leased a Leaf for $278/month, with a $2000 down payment (paid in trade). He is very happy with it. No extra rebates in NC, that's the actual price. My wife just got a Ford CMax with a plug, but we have nowhere to plug it in. She occasionally can charge at work. The car is nice - I drove it ten hours over the weekend, average 42.2 mpg - and while it's not Benz comfortable it is a lot better than the van. The front and rear sensors are good, acceleration and breaking are right, seats and moon roof are pleasant. The nav computer is terrible: Microsoft Sync is unusable, the navigation is flaky, the terrestrial radio doesn't work reliably, satellite radio goes in and out all the time. I connected my phone over Bluetooth (that part works) and I was able to ignore the rest of the deficiencies: classic problem of great hardware, lousy software. I have no idea how much she is paying on the car, but probably a lot more than the Leaf, which is similarly appointed. Best, Tim ___ 42 mpg does not sound all that marvelous. Curt is doing better with his Jetta. And we all know that old 240D's are routinely advertised to do at least 40 mpg. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
On 11/08/2014 6:40 PM, Fmiser via Mercedes wrote: Curt Raymond wrote: At the Nissan dealership to drive pickups yesterday I talked him into letting us drive the Nissan Leaf electric car. Randy wrote: If, all of you folks down south of the border were to get electric vehicles, your electric grid would not be able to handle the load. Maybe. But if the recharge is set to occur over-night, that is when the power plants would like a bit more load to even out the demand compared to daytime use. -- Philip ___ But, you will all have to shut down the AC at night. You won't like that. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
Let us hope, that over time, solar and wind generation becomes a whole lot cheaper. So far, it makes very little sense so far as I can see. One has to consider it pretty much experimental. Manitoba Hydro invested in wind farms but the cost of production is silly compared to the hydro elecrtric generation. Randy On 11/08/2014 7:14 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote: Its not like everybody could run out and buy a new car tomorrow anyway. As load ramps up our electric utilities will be forced to add line capacity. Around here theres a LOT of solar coming in which will reduce the load on the heavy wire grid by making neighborhoods more self sufficient. Within a block of my house I bet theres 2-3 killowatts of solar. Within 10 miles of where I sit theres 4.5 megawatts of windpower. During the day you produce solar which powers Northfield mountain to pump water from the Connecticut river up into a huge lake where the took the top off the mountain. At night the water flows back down and makes electricity. Essentially a huge battery... -Curt From: Fmiser via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 7:40 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege Curt Raymond wrote: At the Nissan dealership to drive pickups yesterday I talked him into letting us drive the Nissan Leaf electric car. Randy wrote: If, all of you folks down south of the border were to get electric vehicles, your electric grid would not be able to handle the load. Maybe. But if the recharge is set to occur over-night, that is when the power plants would like a bit more load to even out the demand compared to daytime use. -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
On 12/08/2014 6:35 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes wrote: Fmiser via Mercedes wrote: That's fine on paper - but the EPA is making it really difficult to get _any_ new generators built. Around here they have been trying to add base-load capacity but either can't or can't-because-it's-to-expensive. And that's why many utilities will pay you money to get an Energy Star refrigerator. What struck me as funny 20 years ago was that Consumers here in Michigan was implementing conservation programs (they weren't yet desperate enough to pay you to conserve) and Illinois Power was mailing out 8w night lights to all their customers. Consumers was trying to avoid summer brownouts from undercapacity, IP was trying to increase base load so they could generate more of their power at their base load cost. Mitch. ___ Sadly, the new energy efficient refrigerator is likely not much better than junk. We have a beer fridge in the basement ( in a lovely avocado green color )that is chugging away 41 years after we acquired it. It has a couple of issues but still keeps things nice and cold. The main refrigerator in the kitchen has been replaced 3 or 4 times and the current one will likely give up before the old one does. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
Randy Bennell via Mercedes wrote: 42 mpg does not sound all that marvelous. Curt is doing better with his Jetta. And Curt didn't put $2000 down when he bought the Jetta, although I think he has more than $2k in it now. At the very least, when mentioning lease payments you need to amortize the upfront cost. $278/mo for 36 months plus $2k up front is really $334 a month. On a 24 month lease it's $361. If you total the car during the first month, it's only $2278 per month. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
Any old (or new) TDI ought to do better. I've seen the CMax, they're ugly and little. For the money a Passat is a much better deal. I've heard ads on the radio espousing the 180 something combined system HP. The 7th generation Golf that was recently released sports 150hp and over 250 lb/ft of torque. Should be much more fun to drive while getting better fuel economy. When we went to Michigan we averaged 47mpg running fast and loaded heavy. Summer commuting has earned me more like 52mpg average with some tanks at 55mpg. -Curt From: Randy Bennell via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Tim Crone bb...@crone.us; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2014 11:09 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege On 11/08/2014 6:21 PM, Tim Crone via Mercedes wrote: On Aug 11, 2014 2:22 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: I think there was also a state rebate of some sort that was a matter of controversy, in addition to the fed rebate. My manager just leased a Leaf for $278/month, with a $2000 down payment (paid in trade). He is very happy with it. No extra rebates in NC, that's the actual price. My wife just got a Ford CMax with a plug, but we have nowhere to plug it in. She occasionally can charge at work. The car is nice - I drove it ten hours over the weekend, average 42.2 mpg - and while it's not Benz comfortable it is a lot better than the van. The front and rear sensors are good, acceleration and breaking are right, seats and moon roof are pleasant. The nav computer is terrible: Microsoft Sync is unusable, the navigation is flaky, the terrestrial radio doesn't work reliably, satellite radio goes in and out all the time. I connected my phone over Bluetooth (that part works) and I was able to ignore the rest of the deficiencies: classic problem of great hardware, lousy software. I have no idea how much she is paying on the car, but probably a lot more than the Leaf, which is similarly appointed. Best, Tim ___ 42 mpg does not sound all that marvelous. Curt is doing better with his Jetta. And we all know that old 240D's are routinely advertised to do at least 40 mpg. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
We almost never run our AC at night, especially this year when it hasn't been that hot. I sneer at those who complain of the heat when they make fun of the cold in winter. I'll take the cold any day. -Curt From: Randy Bennell via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2014 11:10 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege On 11/08/2014 6:40 PM, Fmiser via Mercedes wrote: Curt Raymond wrote: At the Nissan dealership to drive pickups yesterday I talked him into letting us drive the Nissan Leaf electric car. Randy wrote: If, all of you folks down south of the border were to get electric vehicles, your electric grid would not be able to handle the load. Maybe. But if the recharge is set to occur over-night, that is when the power plants would like a bit more load to even out the demand compared to daytime use. -- Philip ___ But, you will all have to shut down the AC at night. You won't like that. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
I bet I don't have more than $2500 in it, $300 is tires and another $400 for timing belt/water pump which is just maintenance... -Curt From: Mitch Haley via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2014 11:17 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege Randy Bennell via Mercedes wrote: 42 mpg does not sound all that marvelous. Curt is doing better with his Jetta. And Curt didn't put $2000 down when he bought the Jetta, although I think he has more than $2k in it now. At the very least, when mentioning lease payments you need to amortize the upfront cost. $278/mo for 36 months plus $2k up front is really $334 a month. On a 24 month lease it's $361. If you total the car during the first month, it's only $2278 per month. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 00:44:12 -0500 Fmiser via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: And there is the issue with solar - and wind. It can never be a significant fraction of the base load generators because it isn't dependable. Nor can it be used for on-demand peak load. Any electrical power grid MUST have non-solar, non-wind resources available to immediately cover what wind and/or solar provide or it will be unstable and will crash. Consider an area that is using 400 megawatts, 100 megawatts of which are supplied by wind and/or solar. What happens when, on a timescale on the order of 30 seconds, the wind stops blowing and/or the sun is obscured by a cloud? If the system has only 300 megawatts of base capacity, from where will the other 100 megawatts come? If it doesn't come from somewhere, the grid will collapse, leaving everyone with nothing, or 100 megawatts of demand will have to be shed (meaning a total blackout for those users). Using a mechanical battery is a really good way to make average capacity meet unpredictable demand, but EPA gets their grubby fingers into that pot too. I think they were reason a system like that in south central Missouri was _not_ repaired. Yes, an energy storage system will solve the intermittency problems with wind and solar. Many different types have been proposed. Suitable only for small applications are flywheels and lifted weights (5 kWh is stored in a 5 ton weight lifted just over a quarter of a mile). Utility-scale systems involving pumped water (as someone else mentioned) use very large quantities of water. There has been research into utility-scale storage batteries. These typically involve noxious chemicals being pumped through the systems. There has also been research in direct conversion of water into hydrogen and oxygen by sunlight. Stored hydrogen would be the energy storage system. It could later be used to generate electricity with fuel cells or by burning in a turbine or reciprocating engine, leveling the supply of solar or wind energy and making a source that plays well with the electrical grid. Still, every Watt generated some way other than fossil fuel is one Watt less that must come from fossil fuel. True. The U.S., however, is the Saudi Arabia of coal. The technology to clean stack emissions can be applied with less difficulty than that for energy storage systems other than coal. Were it not for the political environment that hysterically and falsely labels CO2 as a pollutant, this would be the way to go while the other systems are being developed on utility scales. We do need something to meet demand now or our economy will fall apart. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
Good thing that you did the timing belt. My son's shop has a Golf TDI in right now for work. The owner blew the belt and damaged the engine which of course is an interference engine. They pulled the engine and sent it out for work. Now it is back and back in the car and they have not been able to get it to run. My son is not working on it. One of the other fellows is. My son says it has compression until the oil pressure comes up and then it loses compression. They suspect that it does not have the right lifters in it and that when the oil pressure pumps up, the lifters are holding valves open. If so, a problem created by the engine builders but downloaded onto the poor mechanics who re-installed it and are now trying to diagnose what is wrong. Randy On 12/08/2014 11:38 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote: I bet I don't have more than $2500 in it, $300 is tires and another $400 for timing belt/water pump which is just maintenance... -Curt From: Mitch Haley via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2014 11:17 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege Randy Bennell via Mercedes wrote: 42 mpg does not sound all that marvelous. Curt is doing better with his Jetta. And Curt didn't put $2000 down when he bought the Jetta, although I think he has more than $2k in it now. At the very least, when mentioning lease payments you need to amortize the upfront cost. $278/mo for 36 months plus $2k up front is really $334 a month. On a 24 month lease it's $361. If you total the car during the first month, it's only $2278 per month. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
I agree but unfortunately the anti-alternative crew has always managed to use the argument that solar and wind can't replace fossil fuels which is completely true but misses the point entirely. Coal is beautiful in that it can also produce synthetic oil and gasoline. We should be working hard to make solar and wind produce as much electricity as possible and then use hydrocarbons to make up the demand load and for motor fuels where electricity doesn't make much sense. A blended approach would be sustainable for years and years into the future but it doesn't make for much of a sound bite. Conservation doesn't make for much of a sound bite either but the offgrid crowd used to figure that $1 spent on electricity conservation was worth $10 in electricity production. Since solar is half price now its probably only $5 but still well worth it. For us this has been a great summer for electricity conservation, we've only run the AC maybe a dozen days this year and have been drying almost all our laundry on the line so our electricity usage is staying under 300KWH/mo. I also replaced our last 100w incandescent bulb in the garage with a compact fluorescent. In the house I've started changing out older dimming CF bulbs with LEDs. I think the garage is going to get LEDs sooner rather than later since they aren't affected by the cold. -Curt From: Craig via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2014 12:44 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 00:44:12 -0500 Fmiser via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: And there is the issue with solar - and wind. It can never be a significant fraction of the base load generators because it isn't dependable. Nor can it be used for on-demand peak load. Any electrical power grid MUST have non-solar, non-wind resources available to immediately cover what wind and/or solar provide or it will be unstable and will crash. Consider an area that is using 400 megawatts, 100 megawatts of which are supplied by wind and/or solar. What happens when, on a timescale on the order of 30 seconds, the wind stops blowing and/or the sun is obscured by a cloud? If the system has only 300 megawatts of base capacity, from where will the other 100 megawatts come? If it doesn't come from somewhere, the grid will collapse, leaving everyone with nothing, or 100 megawatts of demand will have to be shed (meaning a total blackout for those users). Using a mechanical battery is a really good way to make average capacity meet unpredictable demand, but EPA gets their grubby fingers into that pot too. I think they were reason a system like that in south central Missouri was _not_ repaired. Yes, an energy storage system will solve the intermittency problems with wind and solar. Many different types have been proposed. Suitable only for small applications are flywheels and lifted weights (5 kWh is stored in a 5 ton weight lifted just over a quarter of a mile). Utility-scale systems involving pumped water (as someone else mentioned) use very large quantities of water. There has been research into utility-scale storage batteries. These typically involve noxious chemicals being pumped through the systems. There has also been research in direct conversion of water into hydrogen and oxygen by sunlight. Stored hydrogen would be the energy storage system. It could later be used to generate electricity with fuel cells or by burning in a turbine or reciprocating engine, leveling the supply of solar or wind energy and making a source that plays well with the electrical grid. Still, every Watt generated some way other than fossil fuel is one Watt less that must come from fossil fuel. True. The U.S., however, is the Saudi Arabia of coal. The technology to clean stack emissions can be applied with less difficulty than that for energy storage systems other than coal. Were it not for the political environment that hysterically and falsely labels CO2 as a pollutant, this would be the way to go while the other systems are being developed on utility scales. We do need something to meet demand now or our economy will fall apart. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
And the have ICE COLD AIR, too! Dan bugs on the back window Sent from my iPad On Aug 12, 2014, at 11:09 AM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: 42 mpg does not sound all that marvelous. Curt is doing better with his Jetta. And we all know that old 240D's are routinely advertised to do at least 40 mpg. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
I'd like to see nuclear construction get started again LarryT On 8/12/2014 11:13 AM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes wrote: Let us hope, that over time, solar and wind generation becomes a whole lot cheaper. So far, it makes very little sense so far as I can see. One has to consider it pretty much experimental. Manitoba Hydro invested in wind farms but the cost of production is silly compared to the hydro elecrtric generation. Randy On 11/08/2014 7:14 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote: Its not like everybody could run out and buy a new car tomorrow anyway. As load ramps up our electric utilities will be forced to add line capacity. Around here theres a LOT of solar coming in which will reduce the load on the heavy wire grid by making neighborhoods more self sufficient. Within a block of my house I bet theres 2-3 killowatts of solar. Within 10 miles of where I sit theres 4.5 megawatts of windpower. During the day you produce solar which powers Northfield mountain to pump water from the Connecticut river up into a huge lake where the took the top off the mountain. At night the water flows back down and makes electricity. Essentially a huge battery... -Curt From: Fmiser via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 7:40 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege Curt Raymond wrote: At the Nissan dealership to drive pickups yesterday I talked him into letting us drive the Nissan Leaf electric car. Randy wrote: If, all of you folks down south of the border were to get electric vehicles, your electric grid would not be able to handle the load. Maybe. But if the recharge is set to occur over-night, that is when the power plants would like a bit more load to even out the demand compared to daytime use. -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
On 12/08/2014 3:30 PM, LarryT via Mercedes wrote: I'd like to see nuclear construction get started again LarryT Yeah, with some cut price offshore contractors and maybe that cement from China that they used in that bridge on the west coast. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
On 8/11/2014 9:21 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote: (snip) A buddy does have a nice Porsche 944 Turbo for sale that is sorely tempting me though . . . . . Ah these are lovely cars, perfectly balanced. They have humbled many a 911. Lots of mods available and websites run by enthusiasts. Dave Gilmore, Cameron WV A partisan cannot be an honest man. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
No Randy, more like the French model, using a proven standardized design capable of efficiently and safely providing decades of power. If we also followed their example and re-processed our fuel rods, the radioactive waste left after 20 years of generating power for a family of four would fit in a coke can. Here's the best part: no CO2!!! Compared to coal, which not only releases tons of CO2 into the air, but also TONS of radioactive uranium and thorium, nuclear power is the only viable answer for those truly concerned about the environment. Max Dillon, Charleston SC On Aug 12, 2014 4:42 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: On 12/08/2014 3:30 PM, LarryT via Mercedes wrote: I'd like to see nuclear construction get started again LarryT Yeah, with some cut price offshore contractors and maybe that cement from China that they used in that bridge on the west coast. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
Well, one can hope, but my fear is that we get the Chinese concrete, so that some MBA business character can cut costs and award himself a big bonus at year end. Randy On 12/08/2014 5:11 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote: No Randy, more like the French model, using a proven standardized design capable of efficiently and safely providing decades of power. If we also followed their example and re-processed our fuel rods, the radioactive waste left after 20 years of generating power for a family of four would fit in a coke can. Here's the best part: no CO2!!! Compared to coal, which not only releases tons of CO2 into the air, but also TONS of radioactive uranium and thorium, nuclear power is the only viable answer for those truly concerned about the environment. Max Dillon, Charleston SC On Aug 12, 2014 4:42 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: On 12/08/2014 3:30 PM, LarryT via Mercedes wrote: I'd like to see nuclear construction get started again LarryT Yeah, with some cut price offshore contractors and maybe that cement from China that they used in that bridge on the west coast. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
Exactly, and continuous critical oversight so long as private industry is owning and running the plants. Here's an example of what can happen when a power companies bottom line overrules all else: http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/energy/progress-energy-warned-itself-not-to-self-manage-crystal-river-nuclear/1205579 Gerry On 8/12/2014 6:11 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote: No Randy, more like the French model, using a proven standardized design capable of efficiently and safely providing decades of power. If we also followed their example and re-processed our fuel rods, the radioactive waste left after 20 years of generating power for a family of four would fit in a coke can. Here's the best part: no CO2!!! Compared to coal, which not only releases tons of CO2 into the air, but also TONS of radioactive uranium and thorium, nuclear power is the only viable answer for those truly concerned about the environment. Max Dillon, Charleston SC On Aug 12, 2014 4:42 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: On 12/08/2014 3:30 PM, LarryT via Mercedes wrote: I'd like to see nuclear construction get started again LarryT Yeah, with some cut price offshore contractors and maybe that cement from China that they used in that bridge on the west coast. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
Craig wrote: Any electrical power grid MUST have non-solar, non-wind resources available to immediately cover what wind and/or solar provide or it will be unstable and will crash. ... We do need something to meet demand now or our economy will fall apart. Planning and design is a mess today because engineers have a closed mind about load and supply. If the load is too great? - change the demand. We can live with less. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
Timing belts is the reason I don't like a number of cars with interference engines, and the reason I do like the Prius' which all have timing chains. Gerry On 8/12/2014 12:54 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes wrote: Good thing that you did the timing belt. My son's shop has a Golf TDI in right now for work. The owner blew the belt and damaged the engine which of course is an interference engine. They pulled the engine and sent it out for work. Now it is back and back in the car and they have not been able to get it to run. My son is not working on it. One of the other fellows is. My son says it has compression until the oil pressure comes up and then it loses compression. They suspect that it does not have the right lifters in it and that when the oil pressure pumps up, the lifters are holding valves open. If so, a problem created by the engine builders but downloaded onto the poor mechanics who re-installed it and are now trying to diagnose what is wrong. Randy On 12/08/2014 11:38 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote: I bet I don't have more than $2500 in it, $300 is tires and another $400 for timing belt/water pump which is just maintenance... -Curt From: Mitch Haley via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2014 11:17 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege Randy Bennell via Mercedes wrote: 42 mpg does not sound all that marvelous. Curt is doing better with his Jetta. And Curt didn't put $2000 down when he bought the Jetta, although I think he has more than $2k in it now. At the very least, when mentioning lease payments you need to amortize the upfront cost. $278/mo for 36 months plus $2k up front is really $334 a month. On a 24 month lease it's $361. If you total the car during the first month, it's only $2278 per month. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
I'm really loving my smart ForTwo ED. It's solid and fun. -- John W Reames jream...@verizon.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Aug 11, 2014, at 13:06, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: At the Nissan dealership to drive pickups yesterday I talked him into letting us drive the Nissan Leaf electric car. I know you old bastards all hate anything new and different but you need to go out and try one. Yes its small but the seating area is about the same as my Jetta. No its not tinny or cheap feeling. Yes its VERY quiet. Its not slow, about the same as my Jetta. 100 mile rated range, the kid at the dealership has one and says 80 is more likely. I enjoyed watching the range meter count up while coasting. We went 6 miles on 3 miles of capacity. If I could get my employer to put in a charging station I'd seriously consider one... -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
John wrote: I'm really loving my smart ForTwo ED. It's solid and fun. Maybe someday it will turn into W123 status and I can enjoy the drive also. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
The BMW Isetta, a little smaller than the Smart For Two, was lots of fun in the '50s and '60s. It would probably have been more popular and more widely sold with a bigger engine. One was hit from behind at an intersection and went airborne; landed across the street on the sidewalk. Minor injuries to the driver IIRC. Gerry On 8/12/2014 9:01 PM, John Reames via Mercedes wrote: I'm really loving my smart ForTwo ED. It's solid and fun. -- John W Reames jream...@verizon.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Aug 11, 2014, at 13:06, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: At the Nissan dealership to drive pickups yesterday I talked him into letting us drive the Nissan Leaf electric car. I know you old bastards all hate anything new and different but you need to go out and try one. Yes its small but the seating area is about the same as my Jetta. No its not tinny or cheap feeling. Yes its VERY quiet. Its not slow, about the same as my Jetta. 100 mile rated range, the kid at the dealership has one and says 80 is more likely. I enjoyed watching the range meter count up while coasting. We went 6 miles on 3 miles of capacity. If I could get my employer to put in a charging station I'd seriously consider one... -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
[MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
At the Nissan dealership to drive pickups yesterday I talked him into letting us drive the Nissan Leaf electric car. I know you old bastards all hate anything new and different but you need to go out and try one. Yes its small but the seating area is about the same as my Jetta. No its not tinny or cheap feeling. Yes its VERY quiet. Its not slow, about the same as my Jetta. 100 mile rated range, the kid at the dealership has one and says 80 is more likely. I enjoyed watching the range meter count up while coasting. We went 6 miles on 3 miles of capacity. If I could get my employer to put in a charging station I'd seriously consider one... -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
Long drop/extension cord? ;) Wilton - Original Message - From: Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 1:06 PM Subject: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege At the Nissan dealership to drive pickups yesterday I talked him into letting us drive the Nissan Leaf electric car. I know you old bastards all hate anything new and different but you need to go out and try one. Yes its small but the seating area is about the same as my Jetta. No its not tinny or cheap feeling. Yes its VERY quiet. Its not slow, about the same as my Jetta. 100 mile rated range, the kid at the dealership has one and says 80 is more likely. I enjoyed watching the range meter count up while coasting. We went 6 miles on 3 miles of capacity. If I could get my employer to put in a charging station I'd seriously consider one... -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
I'm not at all adversed to an electric vehicle, and my commute would be perfect for one. I have a problem with the up front costs. How much was it? Dan Sent from my iPad On Aug 11, 2014, at 1:06 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: At the Nissan dealership to drive pickups yesterday I talked him into letting us drive the Nissan Leaf electric car. I know you old bastards all hate anything new and different but you need to go out and try one. Yes its small but the seating area is about the same as my Jetta. No its not tinny or cheap feeling. Yes its VERY quiet. Its not slow, about the same as my Jetta. 100 mile rated range, the kid at the dealership has one and says 80 is more likely. I enjoyed watching the range meter count up while coasting. We went 6 miles on 3 miles of capacity. If I could get my employer to put in a charging station I'd seriously consider one... -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
List price right at $30k. -Curt From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 1:23 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege I'm not at all adversed to an electric vehicle, and my commute would be perfect for one. I have a problem with the up front costs. How much was it? Dan Sent from my iPad On Aug 11, 2014, at 1:06 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: At the Nissan dealership to drive pickups yesterday I talked him into letting us drive the Nissan Leaf electric car. I know you old bastards all hate anything new and different but you need to go out and try one. Yes its small but the seating area is about the same as my Jetta. No its not tinny or cheap feeling. Yes its VERY quiet. Its not slow, about the same as my Jetta. 100 mile rated range, the kid at the dealership has one and says 80 is more likely. I enjoyed watching the range meter count up while coasting. We went 6 miles on 3 miles of capacity. If I could get my employer to put in a charging station I'd seriously consider one... -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
Saw something the other day about the various gummint(i.e., taxpayer)-funded rebates and such, that some state was going to do away with them because most were going to people who made over $100k/yr and it had been determined that that was Just Not Right. YMMV (or I guess, Your Electricity Usage Might Vary) --R On 8/11/14 1:23 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote: I'm not at all adversed to an electric vehicle, and my commute would be perfect for one. I have a problem with the up front costs. How much was it? Dan Sent from my iPad On Aug 11, 2014, at 1:06 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: At the Nissan dealership to drive pickups yesterday I talked him into letting us drive the Nissan Leaf electric car. I know you old bastards all hate anything new and different but you need to go out and try one. Yes its small but the seating area is about the same as my Jetta. No its not tinny or cheap feeling. Yes its VERY quiet. Its not slow, about the same as my Jetta. 100 mile rated range, the kid at the dealership has one and says 80 is more likely. I enjoyed watching the range meter count up while coasting. We went 6 miles on 3 miles of capacity. If I could get my employer to put in a charging station I'd seriously consider one... -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
Rich Thomas via Mercedes wrote: Saw something the other day about the various gummint(i.e., taxpayer)-funded rebates and such, that some state was going to do away with them because most were going to people who made over $100k/yr and it had been determined that that was Just Not Right. YMMV (or I guess, Your Electricity Usage Might Vary) IIRC, the direct to consumer tax rebates were only good for consumers who actually paid individual income tax, so of course it's the top 53% of earners. Mitch ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
I think there was also a state rebate of some sort that was a matter of controversy, in addition to the fed rebate. --R On 8/11/14 2:14 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes wrote: Rich Thomas via Mercedes wrote: Saw something the other day about the various gummint(i.e., taxpayer)-funded rebates and such, that some state was going to do away with them because most were going to people who made over $100k/yr and it had been determined that that was Just Not Right. YMMV (or I guess, Your Electricity Usage Might Vary) IIRC, the direct to consumer tax rebates were only good for consumers who actually paid individual income tax, so of course it's the top 53% of earners. Mitch ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
The leaf is for pussies. Real men drive diesels:) Sent from my iPhone On Aug 11, 2014, at 1:29 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: List price right at $30k. -Curt From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 1:23 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege I'm not at all adversed to an electric vehicle, and my commute would be perfect for one. I have a problem with the up front costs. How much was it? Dan Sent from my iPad On Aug 11, 2014, at 1:06 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: At the Nissan dealership to drive pickups yesterday I talked him into letting us drive the Nissan Leaf electric car. I know you old bastards all hate anything new and different but you need to go out and try one. Yes its small but the seating area is about the same as my Jetta. No its not tinny or cheap feeling. Yes its VERY quiet. Its not slow, about the same as my Jetta. 100 mile rated range, the kid at the dealership has one and says 80 is more likely. I enjoyed watching the range meter count up while coasting. We went 6 miles on 3 miles of capacity. If I could get my employer to put in a charging station I'd seriously consider one... -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
A friend's wife bought one of the little Ford hybrids. Cannot recall the exact name. He says it does amazing on fuel if one tries. His wife has a bit of a heavy foot and does not do as well in day to day driving as he does if he takes it somewhere and tries to get good mileage. Maybe not quite so green as the Leaf, but more practical with the gasoline engine as backup or whatever if one needs to go beyond the charge distance. Randy On 11/08/2014 12:06 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote: At the Nissan dealership to drive pickups yesterday I talked him into letting us drive the Nissan Leaf electric car. I know you old bastards all hate anything new and different but you need to go out and try one. Yes its small but the seating area is about the same as my Jetta. No its not tinny or cheap feeling. Yes its VERY quiet. Its not slow, about the same as my Jetta. 100 mile rated range, the kid at the dealership has one and says 80 is more likely. I enjoyed watching the range meter count up while coasting. We went 6 miles on 3 miles of capacity. If I could get my employer to put in a charging station I'd seriously consider one... -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
On 11/08/2014 12:06 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote: At the Nissan dealership to drive pickups yesterday I talked him into letting us drive the Nissan Leaf electric car. I know you old bastards all hate anything new and different but you need to go out and try one. Yes its small but the seating area is about the same as my Jetta. No its not tinny or cheap feeling. Yes its VERY quiet. Its not slow, about the same as my Jetta. 100 mile rated range, the kid at the dealership has one and says 80 is more likely. I enjoyed watching the range meter count up while coasting. We went 6 miles on 3 miles of capacity. If I could get my employer to put in a charging station I'd seriously consider one... -Curt ___ IF, all of you folks down south of the border were to get electric vehicles, your electric grid would not be able to handle the load. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
How does the Leaf handle heating and AC? On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: On 11/08/2014 12:06 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote: At the Nissan dealership to drive pickups yesterday I talked him into letting us drive the Nissan Leaf electric car. I know you old bastards all hate anything new and different but you need to go out and try one. Yes its small but the seating area is about the same as my Jetta. No its not tinny or cheap feeling. Yes its VERY quiet. Its not slow, about the same as my Jetta. 100 mile rated range, the kid at the dealership has one and says 80 is more likely. I enjoyed watching the range meter count up while coasting. We went 6 miles on 3 miles of capacity. If I could get my employer to put in a charging station I'd seriously consider one... -Curt ___ IF, all of you folks down south of the border were to get electric vehicles, your electric grid would not be able to handle the load. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
That's why you make all the hydro to ship down to us. Dan Sent from my iPad On Aug 11, 2014, at 2:34 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: On 11/08/2014 12:06 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote: At the Nissan dealership to drive pickups yesterday I talked him into letting us drive the Nissan Leaf electric car. I know you old bastards all hate anything new and different but you need to go out and try one. Yes its small but the seating area is about the same as my Jetta. No its not tinny or cheap feeling. Yes its VERY quiet. Its not slow, about the same as my Jetta. 100 mile rated range, the kid at the dealership has one and says 80 is more likely. I enjoyed watching the range meter count up while coasting. We went 6 miles on 3 miles of capacity. If I could get my employer to put in a charging station I'd seriously consider one... -Curt ___ IF, all of you folks down south of the border were to get electric vehicles, your electric grid would not be able to handle the load. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
Yep, I was 'bout to say, We could suck more outta the Great White North. Wilt - Original Message - From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 2:55 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege That's why you make all the hydro to ship down to us. Dan Sent from my iPad On Aug 11, 2014, at 2:34 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: On 11/08/2014 12:06 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote: At the Nissan dealership to drive pickups yesterday I talked him into letting us drive the Nissan Leaf electric car. I know you old bastards all hate anything new and different but you need to go out and try one. Yes its small but the seating area is about the same as my Jetta. No its not tinny or cheap feeling. Yes its VERY quiet. Its not slow, about the same as my Jetta. 100 mile rated range, the kid at the dealership has one and says 80 is more likely. I enjoyed watching the range meter count up while coasting. We went 6 miles on 3 miles of capacity. If I could get my employer to put in a charging station I'd seriously consider one... -Curt ___ IF, all of you folks down south of the border were to get electric vehicles, your electric grid would not be able to handle the load. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
On Mon, 11 Aug 2014 13:34:18 -0500 Randy Bennell via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: IF, all of you folks down south of the border were to get electric vehicles, your electric grid would not be able to handle the load. Yes, indeed. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
Randy wrote: IF, all of you folks down south of the border were to get electric vehicles, your electric grid would not be able to handle the load. Let's try, okay? Each of us okiebenz readers gotta commit to purchase EV, okay? If we gotta go further - bus/cab/train/rental will do fine, I suspect. Like the bumper sticker I always luv'd on Denver vehicles - let the bastards freeze in the dark. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
On Aug 11, 2014 2:22 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: I think there was also a state rebate of some sort that was a matter of controversy, in addition to the fed rebate. My manager just leased a Leaf for $278/month, with a $2000 down payment (paid in trade). He is very happy with it. No extra rebates in NC, that's the actual price. My wife just got a Ford CMax with a plug, but we have nowhere to plug it in. She occasionally can charge at work. The car is nice - I drove it ten hours over the weekend, average 42.2 mpg - and while it's not Benz comfortable it is a lot better than the van. The front and rear sensors are good, acceleration and breaking are right, seats and moon roof are pleasant. The nav computer is terrible: Microsoft Sync is unusable, the navigation is flaky, the terrestrial radio doesn't work reliably, satellite radio goes in and out all the time. I connected my phone over Bluetooth (that part works) and I was able to ignore the rest of the deficiencies: classic problem of great hardware, lousy software. I have no idea how much she is paying on the car, but probably a lot more than the Leaf, which is similarly appointed. Best, Tim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
Curt Raymond wrote: At the Nissan dealership to drive pickups yesterday I talked him into letting us drive the Nissan Leaf electric car. Randy wrote: If, all of you folks down south of the border were to get electric vehicles, your electric grid would not be able to handle the load. Maybe. But if the recharge is set to occur over-night, that is when the power plants would like a bit more load to even out the demand compared to daytime use. -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
Its not like everybody could run out and buy a new car tomorrow anyway. As load ramps up our electric utilities will be forced to add line capacity. Around here theres a LOT of solar coming in which will reduce the load on the heavy wire grid by making neighborhoods more self sufficient. Within a block of my house I bet theres 2-3 killowatts of solar. Within 10 miles of where I sit theres 4.5 megawatts of windpower. During the day you produce solar which powers Northfield mountain to pump water from the Connecticut river up into a huge lake where the took the top off the mountain. At night the water flows back down and makes electricity. Essentially a huge battery... -Curt From: Fmiser via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 7:40 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege Curt Raymond wrote: At the Nissan dealership to drive pickups yesterday I talked him into letting us drive the Nissan Leaf electric car. Randy wrote: If, all of you folks down south of the border were to get electric vehicles, your electric grid would not be able to handle the load. Maybe. But if the recharge is set to occur over-night, that is when the power plants would like a bit more load to even out the demand compared to daytime use. -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
I saw that Chevy is coming out with an all new Volt in Jan, or there about. I was impressed with the design of the Volt drive train - but not with the price, hence I didn't by one. The new one is rumored to be less expensive - too bad that I've already purchased my (hopefully) last new car. A buddy does have a nice Porsche 944 Turbo for sale that is sorely tempting me though . . . . . On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 7:14 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Its not like everybody could run out and buy a new car tomorrow anyway. As load ramps up our electric utilities will be forced to add line capacity. Around here theres a LOT of solar coming in which will reduce the load on the heavy wire grid by making neighborhoods more self sufficient. Within a block of my house I bet theres 2-3 killowatts of solar. Within 10 miles of where I sit theres 4.5 megawatts of windpower. During the day you produce solar which powers Northfield mountain to pump water from the Connecticut river up into a huge lake where the took the top off the mountain. At night the water flows back down and makes electricity. Essentially a huge battery... -Curt -- OK Don NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens! There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers* 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
The Lone Star State in the 70's oil embargo.They were annoyed with the NE users of their oil, thus the bumper sticker. Fred Moir.Lynn MA.Diesel preferred. Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 18:14:51 -0500 To: rbenn...@bennell.ca; mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege From: mercedes@okiebenz.com Randy wrote: IF, all of you folks down south of the border were to get electric vehicles, your electric grid would not be able to handle the load. Let's try, okay? Each of us okiebenz readers gotta commit to purchase EV, okay? If we gotta go further - bus/cab/train/rental will do fine, I suspect. Like the bumper sticker I always luv'd on Denver vehicles - let the bastards freeze in the dark. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Sacrilege
Curt Raymond wrote: At the Nissan dealership to drive pickups yesterday I talked him into letting us drive the Nissan Leaf electric car. Randy wrote: If, all of you folks down south of the border were to get electric vehicles, your electric grid would not be able to handle the load. Fmiser wrote: Maybe. But if the recharge is set to occur over-night, that is when the power plants would like a bit more load to even out the demand compared to daytime use. Curt wrote: Its not like everybody could run out and buy a new car tomorrow anyway. As load ramps up our electric utilities will be forced to add line capacity. That's fine on paper - but the EPA is making it really difficult to get _any_ new generators built. Around here they have been trying to add base-load capacity but either can't or can't-because-it's-to-expensive. Around here theres a LOT of solar coming in which will reduce the load on the heavy wire grid by making neighborhoods more self sufficient. During the day you produce solar which powers Northfield mountain to pump water from the Connecticut river up into a huge lake where the took the top off the mountain. At night the water flows back down and makes electricity. Essentially a huge battery... And there is the issue with solar - and wind. It can never be a significant fraction of the base load generators because it isn't dependable. Nor can it be used for on-demand peak load. Using a mechanical battery is a really good way to make average capacity meet unpredictable demand, but EPA gets their grubby fingers into that pot too. I think they were reason a system like that in south central Missouri was _not_ repaired. Still, every Watt generated some way other than fossil fuel is one Watt less that must come from fossil fuel. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
