subject:"\[MBZ\] Older"

they cut every corner and cheat every spec in every element of production .

On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 10:05 AM, Peter T. Arnold pm7...@comcast.net wrote:

 I wonder what the root cause of the failures is.  These parts are not
 rocket science, probably poor process control during induction heat treat of
 the bearing surfaces.  I'm sure that controlling that is difficult 
 critical for long life.


 --

 Pete Arnold

 When you get older, you don't regret the things you did in life.

 You regret the things you didn't do.



 On 2/6/2010 9:04 AM, Gary Hurst wrote:

 that's really the crux of the seduction.  a new chinese was costing bimby
 from between 55 and 100 dollars and was selling for $159.  rebuilds are
 running about 150 to 200 and selling for like 200 to 250.  non chinese new
 were like 250 to 300 for bimby, but i don't even know if you can still get
 those as the cheap chinese ones have really come to dominate the market.

 worldpac has been pushing cheap chinese merchandise under the labels of
 feq and worldsource 1 and this stuff is just nasty.  i believe that
 the
 feq axles (the one's in question in the recall) were being sold to bimby
 for
 $55 each.  how much then do you surmise worlpac has in them?  let's say
 $45.  it is suspicious that worldpac can source a new axle shaft, have it
 shipped to them from china and then have it shipped to you, all for $45.
  in
 fact, it makes no sense at all.

 i don't know how many feq's the bimby had sold and how many of the cheap
 ones sold were something of higher quality chinese.  i do know that feq
 was
 a disaster waiting to happen, but the seduction of high sales at high
 margins is too much for most people to pass up



 On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 1:39 AM, Dimitri Seretakisdsereta...@yahoo.com
 wrote:



 What is the price differential between the Chinese axleshafts and the
 German ones?  Not that I'd put Chinese parts on a 115 chassis Mercedes or
 anything but I'm curious.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Feb 5, 2010, at 7:02 PM, Gary Hurstjabbahur...@gmail.com  wrote:

 turns out those cheap chinese axle shafts that you guys have been
 purchasing
 are being recalled for safety concerns.  I'm glad I resist the temptation
 of
 300% profit and don't sell that kind of product.  i think a certain
 vendor
 sells those every single day, but i'm sure he doesn't want to worry you
 guys
 about something as minor as a chinese axle shaft coming apart.

 i can't emphasize it enough -- stay away from the chinese junk!  it is
 only
 being sold because even priced much lower than original quality products,
 the profits are still astronomical.

 --
 save 5% on our already low, low prices.  use coupon code DAVE at
 checkout.
 www. BuyEUROparts.com
 ___
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Re: [MBZ] Older

2010-02-06 Thread Allan Streib

Peter T. Arnold pm7...@comcast.net writes:

 I wonder what the root cause of the failures is.  These parts are not
 rocket science, probably poor process control during induction heat
 treat of the bearing surfaces.  I'm sure that controlling that is
 difficult  critical for long life.

And difficult == costly.  From what I've read, you can get products made
in China at whatever quality level you want to pay for.  Even at that
you need to do your own QC to be sure you are actually getting what you
paid for.

Allan
-- 
1983 300D

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Re: [MBZ] Older

that's where they really hoodwinked the west.  you are simply not getting
what you think you are getting

On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 10:11 AM, Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote:

 Peter T. Arnold pm7...@comcast.net writes:

  I wonder what the root cause of the failures is.  These parts are not
  rocket science, probably poor process control during induction heat
  treat of the bearing surfaces.  I'm sure that controlling that is
  difficult  critical for long life.

 And difficult == costly.  From what I've read, you can get products made
 in China at whatever quality level you want to pay for.  Even at that
 you need to do your own QC to be sure you are actually getting what you
 paid for.

 Allan
 --
 1983 300D

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Re: [MBZ] Older

2010-02-06 Thread Peter T. Arnold


That's an opinion, every man is entitled to one.

I was looking for some data which is what I support my opinions on.


--
Pete Arnold

This e-mail from Peter Arnold and any attachments to it are confidential 
to the intended recipient and may also be uncensored. If you have 
received it in error please consult your religious adviser.   If you are 
not the intended recipient, why have you read this far?  Please do not 
staple, spindle or otherwise mutilate this document, doing so may damage 
your screen.  All communications may be subject to interception or 
monitoring by the men in black helicopters for security purposes. Please 
rely on your own swine flu virus checking as the sender cannot accept 
any liability for any damage arising from any bug or virus infection.


On 2/6/2010 10:10 AM, Gary Hurst wrote:

they cut every corner and cheat every spec in every element of production .

On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 10:05 AM, Peter T. Arnoldpm7...@comcast.net  wrote:

   

I wonder what the root cause of the failures is.  These parts are not
rocket science, probably poor process control during induction heat treat of
the bearing surfaces.  I'm sure that controlling that is difficult
critical for long life.


--

Pete Arnold

When you get older, you don't regret the things you did in life.

You regret the things you didn't do.



On 2/6/2010 9:04 AM, Gary Hurst wrote:

 

that's really the crux of the seduction.  a new chinese was costing bimby
from between 55 and 100 dollars and was selling for $159.  rebuilds are
running about 150 to 200 and selling for like 200 to 250.  non chinese new
were like 250 to 300 for bimby, but i don't even know if you can still get
those as the cheap chinese ones have really come to dominate the market.

worldpac has been pushing cheap chinese merchandise under the labels of
feq and worldsource 1 and this stuff is just nasty.  i believe that
the
feq axles (the one's in question in the recall) were being sold to bimby
for
$55 each.  how much then do you surmise worlpac has in them?  let's say
$45.  it is suspicious that worldpac can source a new axle shaft, have it
shipped to them from china and then have it shipped to you, all for $45.
  in
fact, it makes no sense at all.

i don't know how many feq's the bimby had sold and how many of the cheap
ones sold were something of higher quality chinese.  i do know that feq
was
a disaster waiting to happen, but the seduction of high sales at high
margins is too much for most people to pass up



On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 1:39 AM, Dimitri Seretakisdsereta...@yahoo.com
   

wrote:
 



   

What is the price differential between the Chinese axleshafts and the
German ones?  Not that I'd put Chinese parts on a 115 chassis Mercedes or
anything but I'm curious.

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 5, 2010, at 7:02 PM, Gary Hurstjabbahur...@gmail.com   wrote:

turns out those cheap chinese axle shafts that you guys have been
purchasing
are being recalled for safety concerns.  I'm glad I resist the temptation
of
300% profit and don't sell that kind of product.  i think a certain
vendor
sells those every single day, but i'm sure he doesn't want to worry you
guys
about something as minor as a chinese axle shaft coming apart.

i can't emphasize it enough -- stay away from the chinese junk!  it is
only
being sold because even priced much lower than original quality products,
the profits are still astronomical.

--
save 5% on our already low, low prices.  use coupon code DAVE at
checkout.
www. BuyEUROparts.com
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Re: [MBZ] Older

2010-02-06 Thread Mitch Haley


Gary Hurst wrote:

they cut every corner and cheat every spec in every element of production .


Kind of like that dog food they put poison in to fool the protein analysis?

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Older

yes, exactly.  although without data i will have to say that you are
unscientific and i will keep feeding my pets tainted chinese food.

On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 12:34 PM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote:

 Gary Hurst wrote:

 they cut every corner and cheat every spec in every element of production
 .


 Kind of like that dog food they put poison in to fool the protein analysis?

 Mitch.


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Re: [MBZ] Older

2010-02-06 Thread Curt Raymond

Thats really true anytime you have anybody do anything for you...

I used to manage a call center in Canada that we outsourced some low end work 
to. They cheated us all over the place and I had quite a time being creative in 
catching them...

-Curt

Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 10:16:14 -0500
From: Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Older
Message-ID:
    8b0e7cce1002060716p706f499er1fab93b5a35b...@mail.gmail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

that's where they really hoodwinked the west.  you are simply not getting
what you think you are getting

On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 10:11 AM, Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote:

 Peter T. Arnold pm7...@comcast.net writes:

  I wonder what the root cause of the failures is.  These parts are not
  rocket science, probably poor process control during induction heat
  treat of the bearing surfaces.  I'm sure that controlling that is
  difficult  critical for long life.

 And difficult == costly.  From what I've read, you can get products made
 in China at whatever quality level you want to pay for.  Even at that
 you need to do your own QC to be sure you are actually getting what you
 paid for.

 Allan
 --
 1983 300D

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Re: [MBZ] Older

stetson used to have a factory in philadelphia.  made great hats.  in 1970,
the closed the factory and started outsourcing the hats.  quality went
totally to hell and never recovered.

3 decades later, coach did the same thign with the same results

everyone knows the consequences but the allure of making a quick buck off
the stupid always prevails




On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 1:47 PM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Thats really true anytime you have anybody do anything for you...

 I used to manage a call center in Canada that we outsourced some low end
 work to. They cheated us all over the place and I had quite a time being
 creative in catching them...

 -Curt

 Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 10:16:14 -0500
 From: Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Older
 Message-ID:
 8b0e7cce1002060716p706f499er1fab93b5a35b...@mail.gmail.com
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

 that's where they really hoodwinked the west.  you are simply not getting
 what you think you are getting

 On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 10:11 AM, Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu
 wrote:

  Peter T. Arnold pm7...@comcast.net writes:
 
   I wonder what the root cause of the failures is.  These parts are not
   rocket science, probably poor process control during induction heat
   treat of the bearing surfaces.  I'm sure that controlling that is
   difficult  critical for long life.
 
  And difficult == costly.  From what I've read, you can get products made
  in China at whatever quality level you want to pay for.  Even at that
  you need to do your own QC to be sure you are actually getting what you
  paid for.
 
  Allan
  --
  1983 300D



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Re: [MBZ] Older

2010-02-06 Thread Curt Raymond

Its not that outsourcing can't be done though. When I managed our call center I 
frequently made statements like thats not good enough or totally 
unacceptable or breach of contract or I've had just about enough of your 
s%*t, get your boss on the phone you're f*%$!g fired!

It was never the techs that gave me trouble, always the middle management 
toadies trying to look good for their bosses...

-Curt

Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 13:54:15 -0500
From: Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Older
Message-ID:
    8b0e7cce1002061054i1c1d14c6w151c6b31545a6...@mail.gmail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

stetson used to have a factory in philadelphia.  made great hats.  in 1970,
the closed the factory and started outsourcing the hats.  quality went
totally to hell and never recovered.

3 decades later, coach did the same thign with the same results

everyone knows the consequences but the allure of making a quick buck off
the stupid always prevails




On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 1:47 PM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Thats really true anytime you have anybody do anything for you...

 I used to manage a call center in Canada that we outsourced some low end
 work to. They cheated us all over the place and I had quite a time being
 creative in catching them...

 -Curt


  
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Re: [MBZ] Older

2010-02-06 Thread Mountain Man

jabba wrote:
 that's where they really hoodwinked the west.

The west specifies the product - the hoodwink is in our midst.
We specified a product we could sell to our fellow countrymen and here we are.
Look at the banking today - that is not china - that is usa people.
It is usa people that are hoodwink other usa people.
To what end?
We worship a very cruel god.
The god money.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] Older

they don't give you what you specify.  that is how they turn it on you

On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 9:50 PM, Mountain Man maontin@gmail.com wrote:

 jabba wrote:
  that's where they really hoodwinked the west.

 The west specifies the product - the hoodwink is in our midst.
 We specified a product we could sell to our fellow countrymen and here we
 are.
 Look at the banking today - that is not china - that is usa people.
 It is usa people that are hoodwink other usa people.
 To what end?
 We worship a very cruel god.
 The god money.
 mao

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Re: [MBZ] Older MB's -was Fo-matic

2010-02-03 Thread andrew strasfogel

The local dealer has this program as well, but they left my 111 coupe under
the hot July sun for 3 days while their veteran specialist attempted
to sort out a computer problem on a later model MB under warwranty.  I
finally retrieved my car with no work having been done on it, and when I
opened the sunroof the gaskets tore off due to the hot sun's effect.  When I
complained to the service manager, he had the gall to go on the attack
and accuse me of poor maintenance practices.  Needless to say I took my
business elsewhere.

On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 5:16 PM, Dwight E. Giles, Jr degco...@cox.netwrote:

 The dealer I use-Carriage House in New London CT has special program with
 posters of a w115  a w108 that says-Classic Care Program-they advertise
 that their 3 classic mechanics have 78 years of experience combined-they
 offer flat bed service (like form from Westchester County NY) where the
 dealers don't do older ones. The mechanic that works on my 240D has worked
 on 123 s diesels for 30 years. And they give me loaner for my 240D just
 like
 they do to the owner of the new E350. I think it is nice market niche for
 them and for me. I have had a few usual dealer service  problems there and
 have heard of others-but at least they do work on older ones-(Well Tom your
 300D jalopy might be the exception there.)

 Dwight E. Giles, Jr.
 1978 240D 4 speed. 218K + miles.
 1990 300D 2.5t 170K miles.
 Wickford, RI
 -Original Message-
 From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
 On Behalf Of Allan Streib
 Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:50 AM
 To: Mercedes Discussion List
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fo-matic

 The dealer was likely well aware that he'd alienate a few customers by
 refusing to service their older cars.  From his standpoint, they are not
 buying new cars (or at least not often) and their old cars are
 unfamiliar to the service techs so they take more time in the shop.



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[MBZ] Older MB's -was Fo-matic

2010-02-02 Thread Dwight E. Giles, Jr

The dealer I use-Carriage House in New London CT has special program with
posters of a w115  a w108 that says-Classic Care Program-they advertise
that their 3 classic mechanics have 78 years of experience combined-they
offer flat bed service (like form from Westchester County NY) where the
dealers don't do older ones. The mechanic that works on my 240D has worked
on 123 s diesels for 30 years. And they give me loaner for my 240D just like
they do to the owner of the new E350. I think it is nice market niche for
them and for me. I have had a few usual dealer service  problems there and
have heard of others-but at least they do work on older ones-(Well Tom your
300D jalopy might be the exception there.)

Dwight E. Giles, Jr.
1978 240D 4 speed. 218K + miles.  
1990 300D 2.5t 170K miles.
Wickford, RI
-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Allan Streib
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:50 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fo-matic

The dealer was likely well aware that he'd alienate a few customers by
refusing to service their older cars.  From his standpoint, they are not
buying new cars (or at least not often) and their old cars are
unfamiliar to the service techs so they take more time in the shop.



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[MBZ] Older MBs

2010-02-02 Thread tom tomscat

 it was best?
 
Many are teachers, and middle level government managers who couldn't change 
their own mind without committee imput,
but they read up on cars and they bought the best. That makes them smart and 
you stupid. They are so busy patting
themselves on the back while driving, that they don't even notice when the car 
takes off and runs over someone.
Their only concern is that it might get a scratch that will reduce their 
residual value when they trade if for
another new Toyota after 3 to 5 years.
 
Randy
 
 
 
 
 
--
 
Message: 13
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 17:16:37 -0500
From: Dwight E. Giles, Jr degco...@cox.net
To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: [MBZ] Older MB's -was Fo-matic
Message-ID: 003f01caa455$63316f40$29944d...@net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
 
The dealer I use-Carriage House in New London CT has special program with
posters of a w115  a w108 that says-Classic Care Program-they advertise
that their 3 classic mechanics have 78 years of experience combined-they
offer flat bed service (like form from Westchester County NY) where the
dealers don't do older ones. The mechanic that works on my 240D has worked
on 123 s diesels for 30 years. And they give me loaner for my 240D just like
they do to the owner of the new E350. I think it is nice market niche for
them and for me. I have had a few usual dealer service problems there and
have heard of others-but at least they do work on older ones-(Well Tom your
300D jalopy might be the exception there.)
 
Dwight E. Giles, Jr.
1978 240D 4 speed. 218K + miles.? 
1990 300D 2.5t 170K miles.
Wickford, RI

  
_
Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469228/direct/01/
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[MBZ] Older

2010-01-23 Thread Peter T. Arnold


If you have 1 pin hole, just put a sheetmetal screw  washer in it.


--

Pete Arnold

When you get older, you don't regret the things you did in life.

You regret the things you didn't do.



On 1/22/2010 1:46 PM, Rich Thomas wrote:
I had a 75 Pontiac that got a pinhole in the bottom of the gas tank.  
I kept it sealed up for quite some time by occasionally rubbing a bar 
of soap on it (and old trick apparently, shared with me by an old 
guy).  Finally took it to a shop and they did the solder thing on it, 
after removing/draining the tank.  Guy told me they filled it with 
water mostly, left a little space at the leak to get it hot.  Just 
like Ed says below.


--R

R A Bennell wrote:
My father used to do this sort of thing as well. Not commercially, 
but I do recall him soldering tanks that leaked.


I think the primary concern is getting the area clean enough for the 
solder to stick properly. My guess is that
what you want is the flux - essentially acid - that was used when 
soldering eavestroughing back when it was
galvanized steel instead of aluminum or plastic. Wipe that stuff on 
and it would eat anything that might cause

trouble. Then the solder joint would stick pretty good.

Randy

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com
[mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]on Behalf Of Robert Bigham
Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 11:54 AM
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuek leak/Fuel tank repair


Hello All

The safe way to repair a fuel tank is with soft solder and an 
old-fashioned soldering copper.


In this process, there need not be fire anywhere near the tank, there 
is no spark ever, and the temperature of the
tank can be moderated with partial water fillingor sponging with 
water similar to in bodywork welding.


One of my many old bosses used to do this a lot.  It was something of 
a trade secret to him; he would not allow
outsiders to actually see him do it. He used to cackle about how much 
money he could get for so little work on tank

repair.  But he used to cackle about a lot of things.

Stay away from fuel tank welding; it's too dangerous.

Regards ed


  3. Re: fuel leak (Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,
53310)

  4. Re: fuel leak (pm7...@comcast.net)
  6. Re: fuel leak (R A Bennell)
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 14:21:50 -0500
From: Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310
Subject: Re: [MBZ] fuel leak

Another trick that I've heard about but never witnessed is called
'pressing up' the tank, whereby you fill it with water so that the fuel
is pressed up to the top of the tank, and then you weld so that the
water gets heated and not the fuel.  How do you keep the water leaking
out of the break from mucking up your welding?  I don't know...

-Max


[mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Jim Cathey

Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 9:14 PM



Subject: Re: [MBZ] fuel leak


What do I use to weld this?  Torch?

Fuel tank welding is rather tricky.  I've done it.  The secret
ingredient is a lawnmower putting away filling the tank with 
non-oxygen,

and keeping it that way.

I don't really recommend it.

-- Jim




Message: 4
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 19:57:00 + (UTC)
From: pm7...@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [MBZ] fuel leak

Oh my, this is going to require ear plugs so the large BANG does't 
scare you too much.


Than of course there is all the hollering and screaming that comes 
from burn victims.


I've used epoxy with good results, not as dramatic of course


--

Peter Arnold

Windsor, CT




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[MBZ] Older

2010-01-10 Thread Peter T. Arnold



Someone scribed:
You wrote Only land owners with a high school graduation B+ should be 
allowed to vote





What a babble of BS.

I retire and move into a rental condo after working 40 years after my 4 
years of Armed Service, which I joined when I could no longer afford school.


And some rectum wants to take my right to vote away?

Where the chuck is the righteous outrage on this?


--

Pete Arnold

When you get older, you don't regret the things you did in life.

You regret the things you didn't do.



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Re: [MBZ] Older

2010-01-10 Thread Gary Hurst

i can't take on all the idiocy.  i don't have the strength

On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 5:37 PM, Peter T. Arnold pm7...@comcast.net wrote:


 Someone scribed:

 You wrote Only land owners with a high school graduation B+ should be
 allowed to vote



 What a babble of BS.

 I retire and move into a rental condo after working 40 years after my 4
 years of Armed Service, which I joined when I could no longer afford school.

 And some rectum wants to take my right to vote away?

 Where the chuck is the righteous outrage on this?


 --

 Pete Arnold

 When you get older, you don't regret the things you did in life.

 You regret the things you didn't do.



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Re: [MBZ] Older

2010-01-10 Thread Peter T. Arnold


Which is this?


Main Entry: *id·i·o·cy*
Pronunciation: \?i-de--?-se-\
Function: /noun/
Inflected Form(s): /plural/ *id·i·o·cies*
Date: circa 1529
*1*:  usually offensive *:* extreme mental retardation 
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Idiocy#

*2* *:* something notably stupid or foolish



--
Pete Arnold

My Mind Not Only Wanders, Sometimes it Leaves Completely!


On 1/10/2010 5:50 PM, Gary Hurst wrote:

i can't take on all the idiocy.  i don't have the strength

On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 5:37 PM, Peter T. Arnoldpm7...@comcast.net  wrote:

   

Someone scribed:

 

You wrote Only land owners with a high school graduation B+ should be
allowed to vote



   

What a babble of BS.

I retire and move into a rental condo after working 40 years after my 4
years of Armed Service, which I joined when I could no longer afford school.

And some rectum wants to take my right to vote away?

Where the chuck is the righteous outrage on this?


--

Pete Arnold

When you get older, you don't regret the things you did in life.

You regret the things you didn't do.



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Re: [MBZ] Older

2010-01-10 Thread Mountain Man

Peter wrote:
 And some rectum wants to take my right to vote away?

 Where the chuck is the righteous outrage on this?

It ain't your father's country anymore.
Welcome to the brave new world.
I couldn't vote either.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] Older

2010-01-10 Thread Gary Hurst

fools who have been influenced by lies of a government at war with them and
the idiotic neocon talk radio.

they are suckers for any propaganda myth.  look at how they hang on the
propaganda myth i invented for them?

On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 6:18 PM, Peter T. Arnold pm7...@comcast.net wrote:

 Which is this?


 Main Entry: *id·i·o·cy*
 Pronunciation: \?i-de--?-se-\
 Function: /noun/
 Inflected Form(s): /plural/ *id·i·o·cies*
 Date: circa 1529
 *1*:  usually offensive *:* extreme mental retardation 
 http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Idiocy#
 *2* *:* something notably stupid or foolish



 --
 Pete Arnold

 My Mind Not Only Wanders, Sometimes it Leaves Completely!



 On 1/10/2010 5:50 PM, Gary Hurst wrote:

 i can't take on all the idiocy.  i don't have the strength

 On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 5:37 PM, Peter T. Arnoldpm7...@comcast.net
  wrote:



 Someone scribed:



 You wrote Only land owners with a high school graduation B+ should be
 allowed to vote





 What a babble of BS.

 I retire and move into a rental condo after working 40 years after my 4
 years of Armed Service, which I joined when I could no longer afford
 school.

 And some rectum wants to take my right to vote away?

 Where the chuck is the righteous outrage on this?


 --

 Pete Arnold

 When you get older, you don't regret the things you did in life.

 You regret the things you didn't do.



 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
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 http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com







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[MBZ] Older

2009-12-12 Thread Peter T. Arnold




relng...@aol.com wrote:

SHIP


The people who 
would buy a Genesis are the leasers who go for the make dujour on their next 
lease and have no particular loyalty to any make. After all, they are just 
renting because they are either too poor or too cheap to buy.


RLE

SNIP
Not so, there are financial reasons to lease, if you earn profits, you 
can often write off the lease cost.  Also if you are early in your 
career but rightfully expect your earnings ti increase, it is a way to 
upgrade and control costs.  I'd imagine most S Class cars are leased by 
1st owners against their businesses.



--

Pete Arnold

When you get older, you don't regret the things you did in life.

You regret the things you didn't do.



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Re: [MBZ] Older

2009-12-12 Thread Mountain Man

Peter wrote:
 Not so, there are financial reasons to lease, if you earn profits, you can
 often write off the lease cost.

If that is why there are people leasing Hyundai - I cannot fathom how/why.
Would you be WOW'd by a sales guy impressing you with a Hyundai ? - NOT!!
The WOW factor is with a marque of distinction - a Hyundai  has no
distinction, ever.
It is purely Walmart mindset - dollar price reigns as god.
If/when Hyundai carries a marque of distinction... I will need to eat
my words, but I will already be eaten by the time that occurrence
happens, I suspect.
Pah!! on Hyundai.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] Older

2009-12-06 Thread Craig McCluskey

On Sat, 05 Dec 2009 06:47:27 -0500 Peter T. Arnold pm7...@comcast.net
wrote:

 Still N/G
 
 Google suggested the following formula:  *=INT((NOW()-AG3)/365.25)

It works for me in OpenOffice.org 2.4.


 The computation shows that this fellow is 109 years old 

That's what I get when my birthdate cell is empty but formatted as a date.


Craig

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[MBZ] Older

2009-12-05 Thread Peter T. Arnold


Still N/G

Google suggested the following formula:  *=INT((NOW()-AG3)/365.25)

The Date information is in cell AG3  The date there is: 06/12/1974 {Yes, 
formated as date}


The computation shows that this fellow is 109 years old   {Formatted 
as number}

*  I hate to do 200 of them manual each month

Comments?


--

Pete Arnold

When you get older, you don't regret the things you did in life.

You regret the things you didn't do.




Dieselhead wrote:
Then if you set the number format for the result cell to have 0 
decimals, it should drop the .87 and guve you the 57



I tried it.

Make the cells with the dates date format. Make the cell with the 
formula in it a number format.


Take the current date cell and subtract the birth date cell and 
divide it by 365.


If I take today's date - 12/04/09 and subtract my date of birth - 
02/06/52 and divide by 365, I get 57.87 and I

will be 58 in February.

Randy

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com
[mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]on Behalf Of Peter T. Arnold
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 3:44 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: [MBZ] O/T Excel (Or OpenOffice) Formula



I'm trying to express members age in a spreadsheet.  While I use Open
Office, M/S Excel would be fine.

I use MM/DD/YY as the format for the persons birth day.

I'm pulling out my few hairs trying to express age.

Maybe some one would communicate off list?


--

Peter T. Arnold P.M. x3
All Mail to:
Secretary Hartford Evergreen Lodge #88 A.F.  A.M.
34 Country Club Drive
Windsor, CT 06095


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Re: [MBZ] Older

2009-12-05 Thread LarryT


Try the suggestion here:
http://www.fontstuff.com/excel/exltut01.htm

Good luck - 

OilAnalysis Time? 
Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters? 
www.youroil.net 




--
From: Peter T. Arnold pm7...@comcast.net
Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 6:47 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: [MBZ] Older


Still N/G

Google suggested the following formula:  *=INT((NOW()-AG3)/365.25)

The Date information is in cell AG3  The date there is: 06/12/1974 {Yes, 
formated as date}


The computation shows that this fellow is 109 years old   {Formatted 
as number}

*  I hate to do 200 of them manual each month

Comments?


--

Pete Arnold

When you get older, you don't regret the things you did in life.

You regret the things you didn't do.




Dieselhead wrote:
Then if you set the number format for the result cell to have 0 
decimals, it should drop the .87 and guve you the 57



I tried it.

Make the cells with the dates date format. Make the cell with the 
formula in it a number format.


Take the current date cell and subtract the birth date cell and 
divide it by 365.


If I take today's date - 12/04/09 and subtract my date of birth - 
02/06/52 and divide by 365, I get 57.87 and I

will be 58 in February.

Randy

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com
[mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]on Behalf Of Peter T. Arnold
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 3:44 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: [MBZ] O/T Excel (Or OpenOffice) Formula



I'm trying to express members age in a spreadsheet.  While I use Open
Office, M/S Excel would be fine.

I use MM/DD/YY as the format for the persons birth day.

I'm pulling out my few hairs trying to express age.

Maybe some one would communicate off list?


--

Peter T. Arnold P.M. x3
All Mail to:
Secretary Hartford Evergreen Lodge #88 A.F.  A.M.
34 Country Club Drive
Windsor, CT 06095


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Re: [MBZ] Older

2009-12-05 Thread Dieselhead




Your AG1 must be blank.  when I ran the formula, my ag1 was blank, 
and it returned 109 (based on 1900)


When I put a value in a1 as 1/2/1934, it returns 75, the correct 
answer.  Your AG1 must also be formatted as a date.


Check the format of AG1, and make sure it is not a blank cell, 
because the formula is reading AG1 as blank.


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[MBZ] Older

2009-10-23 Thread Peter T. Arnold

I learned to drive on a Dodge P/U with that combo.  I'm sure a a period 
M/B diesel would have streaked by it in a drag race.


It had 3 pedals.  You could leave it in 3rd which came in handy if your 
girlfrind was sitting right next to you and your hands were cold.



--

Pete Arnold

When you get older, you don't regret the things you did in life.

You regret the things you didn't do.



Dwight E. Giles, Jr wrote:

Peter,
What about the Chrysler, Dodge, Desoto Fluid Drive. I had 50 Dodge pickup
with the fluid drive. It was just a big sealed unit-fluid coupler-also had a
dry clutch in the drive line as well for shifting. 
Dwight 


Dwight E. Giles, Jr.
1978 240D 4 speed. 218K + miles.  
1990 300D 2.5t 170K miles.

Wickford, RI

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Peter Frederick
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 10:00 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] transmission options

To be a bit more accurate, it's not horsepower dependent, really,  
it's the slip ratio of the torque converter (which is a bit more  
complicated than a fluid coupling).  High slip results in torque  
amplification.


Effectively it's a lower gear ratio.

Your comments of efficiency and fuel consumption are correct -- as  
well a some reduction in top speed as the torque converter will slip  
more at high speed if it's a high rpm stall one than if it's a low  
rpm stall speed one.


Fluid couplings (in the automotive sense, that is) do not have a  
variable stator and therefore do not have a dual stall speed like a  
torque converter does.  The variable stator (of any of about three  
main types) allows one to have a high stall speed fluid coupling  
under power at low speed and a low stall speed fluid coupling at high  
speed.  Some are simply one-way clutches, the most common current  
type, but in the past there have been a couple different active  
systems.  The one most people over 50 would know is in the GM  
Powerglide 2-speed automatic. Buick used them in the Twin Turbine  
(along with two separate torque converters if I remember correctly)  
and at least one other GM division had an active one.


Lockup torque converters are great, by the way

Peter

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[MBZ] Older

2009-09-12 Thread Peter T. Arnold

That would require folks to be courtious, a trend that went out of style 
in the late 50's.


I'd bet there are a few folks here that would have picked themselves up 
off the floor had they:

1) Been rude to an adult in front of Mom or Dad
2) Spoken back to a parent, right or wrong.
3) Corrected a Parent, Right or Wrong

When I was a young lad, my dad brought me to school one morning after I 
had been kept after school.
Why did you keep Peter after school? He said to my Male teacher who we 
were all afraid of as he had been mildly disfigured in the South Pacific.

He was talking in class said the Teacher.
Well, I want him to walk home { 1  1/2 mile uphill both ways} with his 
friends.  Next time, put a mark on him where it shows and I'll correct 
the problem when he gets home!



--

Pete Arnold

When you get older, you don't regret the things you did in life.

You regret the things you didn't do.



LarryT wrote:
Good point - when they drive the speed limit it creates a rolling road 
block that hampers traffic.


Speaking of traffic laws, if there's one law that I'd like to see 
enforced better it would be making people move over after passing.  
The passing lanes are for passing, not driving the same speed as the 
guy in the right lane.


Obviously, when there are 3,4 or more lanes in each direction I'd like 
to see every other lane designated as a passing lane - and when 
traffic is extremely heavy, all lanes could be used to keep traffic 
moving - but when it clears out, go back to using the left lane for 
passing.


Rant off.  ;-)
LarryT

OilAnalysis Time?
Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters?
www.youroil.net



--
From: Michael Esh michael...@me.com
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 10:16 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Monkey-Masked Speeding Driver in 
PhoenixIgnoresTickets


I say let them speed..better than pulling me over for going 75.  And  
when they do not speed, traffic piles up behind them and everyone  
takes off again when the police exit the hightway.


Mike
On Sep 11, 2009, at 10:02 PM, Mitch Haley wrote:


LarryT wrote:
The law - at least in Va.,  is they are supposed to obey all  
traffic laws unless their blue/red lights are on.


That's the statutory language here in Michigan, but persecutors and  
law enforcement workers don't obey laws, so statute doesn't matter.  
They'll just tell you he was in a marked car, so laws don't apply  
to him.


I personally know a state police lieutenant (former state highway 
trooper) who jumped all over a trooper for pulling him over when he  
was doing 95 in a 70 zone in a state motor pool car (not even an  
unmarked squad). If I were the trooper that he mistreated, I would  
have arrested him for reckless driving and refused to back down.  
Professional Courtesy goes both ways, if you aren't courteous, 
you  should forfeit any 'right' you had to claim it.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Older

2009-09-12 Thread LarryT


I bet you were *vry* quiet after that!  The good old days.

Now if that were to happen today, the ACLU would show up with the TV cameras 
and that teacher would be ruined for life just for attempting to correct you 
and prevent you from practicing your free speech.   After that, you father 
would be arrested and charged with child abuse - just for suggesting you be 
hit - and you'd be in a foster home, with who knows what kind of people?


I'd like to see our schools begin to demand a standard of courtesy and to 
show respect for the people who are there to help them find a path in life - 
as it is now, the kids seem to run the class rooms.  Based on what gets into 
the news at least.  Teachers being assaulted, violent and bad language the 
norm, kids being assaulted, all the while the administrators are being 
highly paid as the teachers get the lower pay.


Things are backwards and have been for a while.

But I don't see things changing anytime soon.

LarryT

OilAnalysis Time?
Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters?
www.youroil.net



--
From: Peter T. Arnold pm7...@comcast.net
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 5:02 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: [MBZ] Older

That would require folks to be courtious, a trend that went out of style 
in the late 50's.


I'd bet there are a few folks here that would have picked themselves up 
off the floor had they:

1) Been rude to an adult in front of Mom or Dad
2) Spoken back to a parent, right or wrong.
3) Corrected a Parent, Right or Wrong

When I was a young lad, my dad brought me to school one morning after I 
had been kept after school.
Why did you keep Peter after school? He said to my Male teacher who we 
were all afraid of as he had been mildly disfigured in the South Pacific.

He was talking in class said the Teacher.
Well, I want him to walk home { 1  1/2 mile uphill both ways} with his 
friends.  Next time, put a mark on him where it shows and I'll correct the 
problem when he gets home!



--

Pete Arnold

When you get older, you don't regret the things you did in life.

You regret the things you didn't do.



LarryT wrote:
Good point - when they drive the speed limit it creates a rolling road 
block that hampers traffic.


Speaking of traffic laws, if there's one law that I'd like to see 
enforced better it would be making people move over after passing.  The 
passing lanes are for passing, not driving the same speed as the guy in 
the right lane.


Obviously, when there are 3,4 or more lanes in each direction I'd like to 
see every other lane designated as a passing lane - and when traffic is 
extremely heavy, all lanes could be used to keep traffic moving - but 
when it clears out, go back to using the left lane for passing.


Rant off.  ;-)
LarryT

OilAnalysis Time?
Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters?
www.youroil.net



--
From: Michael Esh michael...@me.com
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 10:16 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Monkey-Masked Speeding Driver in 
PhoenixIgnoresTickets


I say let them speed..better than pulling me over for going 75.  And 
when they do not speed, traffic piles up behind them and everyone  takes 
off again when the police exit the hightway.


Mike
On Sep 11, 2009, at 10:02 PM, Mitch Haley wrote:


LarryT wrote:
The law - at least in Va.,  is they are supposed to obey all  traffic 
laws unless their blue/red lights are on.


That's the statutory language here in Michigan, but persecutors and 
law enforcement workers don't obey laws, so statute doesn't matter. 
They'll just tell you he was in a marked car, so laws don't apply  to 
him.


I personally know a state police lieutenant (former state highway 
trooper) who jumped all over a trooper for pulling him over when he 
was doing 95 in a 70 zone in a state motor pool car (not even an 
unmarked squad). If I were the trooper that he mistreated, I would 
have arrested him for reckless driving and refused to back down. 
Professional Courtesy goes both ways, if you aren't courteous, you 
should forfeit any 'right' you had to claim it.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Older

2009-08-29 Thread Curt Raymond

Well geez Pete, maybe because the newer oils are plain better than what was 
available 50 years ago...
I've been using 10w30 in my '52 Farmall Super M for almost 10 years now. It 
runs just as good now as it did 10 years ago. I was VERY careful when I started 
using detergent oil to only use a little detergent oil at first and change the 
oil more often so that as the crud broke up from the oil pan it wouldn't cause 
problems, and it didn't. This is a pretty common practice in the old tractor 
community and although my Uncle Reg said I was going to destroy that tractor 
he's been dead 6 years now and the tractor continues on...

You may not believe it but once in awhile is whippersnappers know a thing or 
two...

-Curt

Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:14:50 -0400
From: Peter T. Arnold pm7...@comcast.net
Subject: [MBZ] Older
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Message-ID: 4a982caa.3020...@comcast.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

I have no real data supporting my position.  Marshall, please chime in 
hear and tell Curt NOT TO USE A MULTIGRADE OIL IN A 2 CYCLE DETROIT.

That being said, if you use any oil that does not meet the manufactures 
spec, you own it when it blows up.  Why would you risk that?

F-250 has 2 big batteries and very good glow plug system {When the 
solenoid works}.


--

Pete Arnold

When you get older, you don't regret the things you did in life.

You regret the things you didn't do.


  
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Re: [MBZ] Older

I'm sure that newer oils are better than old ones.  Most of them are 
backwards compatable also according to SAE requireemnts.  That does not 
make them the right oil for every application. 
You asked a question, I gave you data.  Do you have other data or are 
you using an opinion?
Your Farmall Super M has a Detroit 2 Cycle engine?  Well, than I guess 
I'm the fool on this one.  You see, GMC specifically prohibits 
multi-weight oils in a Detroit 2 cycle engines.  My guess would be the 
That Uncle Reg worked for them and they are trying to pull the wool 
over our eyes.


Lets agree to disagree.


--
Pete Arnold

My Mind Not Only Wanders, Sometimes it Leaves Completely!

Curt Raymond wrote:

Well geez Pete, maybe because the newer oils are plain better than what was 
available 50 years ago...
I've been using 10w30 in my '52 Farmall Super M for almost 10 years now. It runs just as 
good now as it did 10 years ago. I was VERY careful when I started using detergent oil to 
only use a little detergent oil at first and change the oil more often so that as the 
crud broke up from the oil pan it wouldn't cause problems, and it didn't. This is a 
pretty common practice in the old tractor community and although my Uncle Reg said I was 
going to destroy that tractor he's been dead 6 years now and the tractor 
continues on...

You may not believe it but once in awhile is whippersnappers know a thing or 
two...

-Curt

Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:14:50 -0400
From: Peter T. Arnold pm7...@comcast.net
Subject: [MBZ] Older
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Message-ID: 4a982caa.3020...@comcast.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

I have no real data supporting my position.  Marshall, please chime in 
hear and tell Curt NOT TO USE A MULTIGRADE OIL IN A 2 CYCLE DETROIT.


That being said, if you use any oil that does not meet the manufactures 
spec, you own it when it blows up.  Why would you risk that?


F-250 has 2 big batteries and very good glow plug system {When the 
solenoid works}.



--

Pete Arnold

When you get older, you don't regret the things you did in life.

You regret the things you didn't do.


  
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Re: [MBZ] Older

2009-08-29 Thread Jim Cathey

GMC specifically prohibits multi-weight oils in a Detroit 2 cycle 
engines.


Granted, but it would be nice to know _why_.

Speaking of oils, I'm oiling a clarinet body right now.
Mixed up my own, grape oil with grapefruit seed extract
and Rosemary extract for preservatives...

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] Older

My source, which I used to verify what I had head is here:

http://www.tpub.com/content/constructionmixers/TM-5-3895-359-14-P/TM-5-3895-359-14-P0473.htm

There are lots more sources on the web.

I prefer not to use opinions, with the exceptions being women and single
barrel bourbons.

--
Pete Arnold

This e-mail from Peter Arnold and any attachments to it are confidential
to the intended recipient and may also be uncensored. If you have
received it in error please consult your religious adviser. If you are
not the intended recipient, why have you read this far? Please do not
staple, spindle or otherwise mutilate this document, doing so may damage
your screen. All communications may be subject to interception or
monitoring by the men in black helicopters for security purposes. Please
rely on your own swine flu virus checking as the sender cannot accept
any liability for any damage arising from any bug or virus infection.

Jim Cathey wrote:
GMC specifically prohibits multi-weight oils in a Detroit 2 cycle
engines.

Granted, but it would be nice to know _why_.

Speaking of oils, I'm oiling a clarinet body right now.
Mixed up my own, grape oil with grapefruit seed extract
and Rosemary extract for preservatives...

-- Jim

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Re: [MBZ] Older

2009-08-29 Thread Jim Cathey


So they said that in _some_ applications the 15W40
didn't work as well as the older straight-grade oils.
Never really said why, or what failure/wear was exhibited
nor what the offending applications were.

Still pretty thin, for those of us who want to
know the why of why.

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] Older

The explanation I heard for using single weight oils in air cooled  
engines (and I presume 2-stroke diesels as well) is that they run  
quite hot in comparison to liquid cooled engines, and the single  
weight oil is less subject to viscosity loss at that neat level.   
Lower viscosity means much higher oil consumption.  Non detergent oil  
means less foaming, also  a concern with a splash lubed engine.


However, I use 15W50 M1 in my lawn mowers -- they use less oil since  
the viscosity at operating temp is somewhat higher than straight 30  
weight so long as the viscosity package and the base oil hold up (and  
with Mobil 1 this is not a problem).


Dino oils with viscosity extenders will probably go thin at high  
temp, and given the applications, I would expect trouble due to thin  
oil/low oil pressure and excessive consumption.


Synthetics are a different animal, but I would still follow  
manufacturers CURRENT recommendations, not those from 1955


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] Older

2009-08-29 Thread Dimitri Seretakis

Interesting, a friend has a farmall cub I think that he bought a year ago and 
uses modern oil.  Every time he/we (I help him when I visit) it is all cloudy.  
That detergent oil must be breaking everything up.

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 29, 2009, at 10:45 AM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote:

Well geez Pete, maybe because the newer oils are plain better than what was 
available 50 years ago...
I've been using 10w30 in my '52 Farmall Super M for almost 10 years now. It 
runs just as good now as it did 10 years ago. I was VERY careful when I started 
using detergent oil to only use a little detergent oil at first and change the 
oil more often so that as the crud broke up from the oil pan it wouldn't cause 
problems, and it didn't. This is a pretty common practice in the old tractor 
community and although my Uncle Reg said I was going to destroy that tractor 
he's been dead 6 years now and the tractor continues on...

You may not believe it but once in awhile is whippersnappers know a thing or 
two...

-Curt

Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:14:50 -0400
From: Peter T. Arnold pm7...@comcast.net
Subject: [MBZ] Older
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Message-ID: 4a982caa.3020...@comcast.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

I have no real data supporting my position.  Marshall, please chime in 
hear and tell Curt NOT TO USE A MULTIGRADE OIL IN A 2 CYCLE DETROIT.

That being said, if you use any oil that does not meet the manufactures 
spec, you own it when it blows up.  Why would you risk that?

F-250 has 2 big batteries and very good glow plug system {When the 
solenoid works}.


--

Pete Arnold

When you get older, you don't regret the things you did in life.

You regret the things you didn't do.



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Re: [MBZ] Older

2009-08-29 Thread Fmiser

 Jim Cathey wrote:

 Speaking of oils, I'm oiling a clarinet body right now.
 Mixed up my own, grape oil with grapefruit seed extract
 and Rosemary extract for preservatives...

I presume that's grape seed oil.  Does the rosemary extract
prevent the vegetable oils from going rancid?

--  Philip

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Re: [MBZ] Older

2009-08-29 Thread Jim Cathey


I presume that's grape seed oil.  Does the rosemary extract
prevent the vegetable oils from going rancid?


Yes, and one hopes so.  (Also the bitter grapefruit seed extract.)

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] Older

2009-08-29 Thread Dwight E. Giles, Jr

Sound like a food network discussion. An edible clarinet.

Bissell Cove Quahog  Auto Salvage Co
Dwight E. Giles, Jr.
Wickford RI 02852

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Jim Cathey
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 2:09 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Older

 I presume that's grape seed oil.  Does the rosemary extract
 prevent the vegetable oils from going rancid?

Yes, and one hopes so.  (Also the bitter grapefruit seed extract.)

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] Older

I read the document about oil for Detroit 2-strokes.  Sounds like  
Mobil 1 would be fine (although not recommended) IF you do oil  
analysis checking for wear.  Certainly, M1 15W50 is going to have  
better film strength and higher viscosity at running temp than 30  
weight oil, anyway, and has vastly better detergent power to keep the  
crud out of the ring grooves, etc.


The main drawback is going to be soot accumulation, as per usual, and  
the only cure for that is more frequent changes.  If the change  
frequency, as determined by TBN and soot accumulation, gets to less  
than twice that for dino oil, there is no advantage to using synthetic.


The only problem with using detergent oil in an engine with pressure  
feed lubrication (as opposed to splash lube) is that any accumulated  
varnish and sludge is going to be suspended, driven through the oil  
pump, and will clog the filter(s), leaving you with unfiltered, dirty  
oil in the bearings.  If the engine has been recently or newly  
rebuilt, there is absolutely no advantage to using non-detergent oil  
-- the crud belongs in the disposable filter and into the trash, not  
the bottom of the oil pan and other dead spots in the engine.


If you have an old engine with serious accumulations of sludge, I'd  
advise cleaning it up first before changing to detergent oil, for the  
above reasons.  Non-detergent oil will work fine until you tear it  
apart for some reason, but after that, there is absolutely NO reason  
to use non-detergent oils in any engine with an oil filter.


My favorite non-detergent oil story is supplied by my barber.  He got  
an early 70's Ford pickup from an old farmer for a pretty good price  
because it smoked a little.  He got it home and tried to change the  
oil, since he knew the old man was a cheapskate and used the cheapest  
oil he could lay his hands on.  No go -- took the oil plug out, and  
nothing came out of the sump.  Had to drive a large screwdriver about  
4 in to break up the hard sludge enough to get the oil to drain, so  
he dropped the pan and removed the oil filter.  Filter weighed about  
3 lbs -- when they cut it open, it was packed with solid sludge.  The  
oil pan was filled with sludge with just a small clear area around  
the oil pickup, and they ended up just rebuilding the engine rather  
than trying to clear it out -- heads were full of crud too.


Turns out the oil man had only changed the oil once in 50,000 miles  
or so -- and that was the factory 200 mile service.  He just added  
non-detergent oil to keep it full and drove it..


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] Older


What I read was 
Multigrade oils have not provided performance comparable to
Table L-4 shows the initial oil drain intervals for all Series 2-
SAE-40 or SAE-30 lubricants in some engine service
cycle engines used in the various service applications.
applications. Because of this experience, the use of 1 5W-40
and all other multigrade oils is not recommended 

Pete
Multigrade oils have not provided performance comparable to



Jim Cathey wrote:

So they said that in _some_ applications the 15W40
didn't work as well as the older straight-grade oils.
Never really said why, or what failure/wear was exhibited
nor what the offending applications were.

Still pretty thin, for those of us who want to
know the why of why.

-- Jim



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[MBZ] Older




Peter Frederick wrote:
The explanation I heard for using single weight oils in air cooled 
engines 

*I used 10-30 on all my VW Beatles, no harm*
(and I presume 2-stroke diesels as well) 


*I would not presume, I prefer S.A.E. Data*
is that they run quite hot in comparison to liquid cooled engines, and 
the single weight oil is less subject to viscosity loss at that neat 
level.  Lower viscosity means much higher oil consumption.  
*Most modern gas engines are designed for 5-30, heavier oil will 
increase parasitic drag, reduce mileage and put you warentee to risk. My 
HHR goes 10,000 miles on a quart, good for me...*
Non detergent oil means less foaming, also  a concern with a splash 
lubed engine.


However, I use 15W50 M1 in my lawn mowers -- they use less oil since 
the viscosity at operating temp is somewhat higher than straight 30 
weight so long as the viscosity package and the base oil hold up (and 
with Mobil 1 this is not a problem).


Dino oils with viscosity extenders will probably go thin at high temp, 
and given the applications, I would expect trouble due to thin oil/low 
oil pressure and excessive consumption.


Synthetics are a different animal, but I would still follow 
manufacturers CURRENT recommendations, not those from 1955


*Detroit Allison has always specified 40wt for it's 2 cycle diesel 
engines used in normal conditions*


--

Pete Arnold

When you get older, you don't regret the things you did in life.

You regret the things you didn't do.



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Re: [MBZ] Older




Peter Frederick wrote:
I read the document about oil for Detroit 2-strokes.  Sounds like 
Mobil 1 would be fine (although not recommended)
Holy crap, read this slowly!  Mobile1 is NOT RECOMMENDED and that 
*SOUNDS TO YOU* like it would be fine.


I can't argue with that.


--
Pete Arnold 32°

There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and
mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.  - Ernest Hemingway

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Re: [MBZ] Older

It would have been nice to SEE those tables, and what oils were  
compared.


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] Older

2009-08-29 Thread WILTON

Squeeze/collect enough of that grape, grapefruit, etc., oil and you can run 
your Diesels on it.  ;)


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Dwight E. Giles, Jr degco...@cox.net

To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 2:10 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Older



Sound like a food network discussion. An edible clarinet.

Bissell Cove Quahog  Auto Salvage Co
Dwight E. Giles, Jr.
Wickford RI 02852

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Jim Cathey
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 2:09 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Older


I presume that's grape seed oil.  Does the rosemary extract
prevent the vegetable oils from going rancid?


Yes, and one hopes so.  (Also the bitter grapefruit seed extract.)

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] Older

The document state multiviscosity oils are not recommended.  It  
does NOT mention synthetic oils by name or type, which is why I would  
like to see the data (tables) not included.  It does state that any  
oil meeting the listed SE/CD rating is adequate for use.  This would  
presumably include CH-4 and CI rated oils..  One oil change (of  
normal durration, not the 100,000 50 gal over the road truck engine  
application) should tell you if you are getting adequate engine  
protection and acceptable oil consumption.


I would not disagree that many multi-viscosity oils are inferior in  
high heat applications to single viscosity oils, but that is purely a  
matter of formulation, and modern multi-viscosity oils are much  
better than they were a few years ago.  I would assume that is true  
for single weight oils, but I don't know -- the market for single  
weight oils is quite small.


It also clearly states that any oil not on the list should be tested  
regularly for wear and degradation and may be good (or not),  
including any oils single viscosity oils NOT ON THE LIST.


There is a huge difference between adding a viscosity extender to a  
single weight dino oil and the extended viscosity characteristics of  
synthetic base oil.


MB does not recommend any 10-W40 oil, including Mobil 1, but does  
recommend the use of  15W50 and 5W40 Mobil 1, last time I looked, for  
the OM603.


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] Older

2009-08-29 Thread Mitch Haley


Peter Frederick wrote:

It would have been nice to SEE those tables, and what oils were compared.


Am I correct in assuming the document in question is a 1985 Army manual?

I wonder if they are worried about 15W40 wearing out the viscosity extenders and 
turning into 15W in some applications.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Older

2009-08-29 Thread Curt Raymond

My great uncles still farmed when I was little, there was this one French 
Canadian guy that drove a potato truck for them and had terrible trouble with 
oil consumption on his pickup. One time Uncle Pat asked do you ever check the 
oil in that truck? Yessir the man replied I keeps it filled right to de 
top!

The guy was going through GALLONS of oil trying to keep it full... One of those 
stories I wouldn't believe if I hadn't been there and seen the look on the 
men's faces when they took the oil cap off. I didn't really understand at the 
time...

-Curt

Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 13:30:39 -0500
From: Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Older
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Message-ID: 0d792069-84b0-4775-97f6-51ec278a3...@earthlink.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed


Turns out the oil man had only changed the oil once in 50,000 miles  
or so -- and that was the factory 200 mile service.  He just added  
non-detergent oil to keep it full and drove it..

Peter


  
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Re: [MBZ] Older

2009-08-29 Thread Curt Raymond

How old is the CD spec? How long has it been since Detroit made a 2 stroke 
diesel?

How old is that documentation?

-Curt

Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 15:08:59 -0500
From: Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Older
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Message-ID: 33dd9a02-f534-4e68-8dca-724980c8c...@earthlink.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

The document state multiviscosity oils are not recommended.  It  
does NOT mention synthetic oils by name or type, which is why I would  
like to see the data (tables) not included.  It does state that any  
oil meeting the listed SE/CD rating is adequate for use.  This would  
presumably include CH-4 and CI rated oils..  One oil change (of  
normal durration, not the 100,000 50 gal over the road truck engine  
application) should tell you if you are getting adequate engine  
protection and acceptable oil consumption.

I would not disagree that many multi-viscosity oils are inferior in  
high heat applications to single viscosity oils, but that is purely a  
matter of formulation, and modern multi-viscosity oils are much  
better than they were a few years ago.  I would assume that is true  
for single weight oils, but I don't know -- the market for single  
weight oils is quite small.

It also clearly states that any oil not on the list should be tested  
regularly for wear and degradation and may be good (or not),  
including any oils single viscosity oils NOT ON THE LIST.

There is a huge difference between adding a viscosity extender to a  
single weight dino oil and the extended viscosity characteristics of  
synthetic base oil.

MB does not recommend any 10-W40 oil, including Mobil 1, but does  
recommend the use of  15W50 and 5W40 Mobil 1, last time I looked, for  
the OM603.

Peter

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Re: [MBZ] Older

2009-08-29 Thread Craig McCluskey

On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:45:31 -0700 (PDT) Curt Raymond
curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote:

 My great uncles still farmed when I was little, there was this one
 French Canadian guy that drove a potato truck for them and had terrible
 trouble with oil consumption on his pickup. One time Uncle Pat asked do
 you ever check the oil in that truck? Yessir the man replied I keeps
 it filled right to de top!
 
 The guy was going through GALLONS of oil trying to keep it full... One
 of those stories I wouldn't believe if I hadn't been there and seen the
 look on the men's faces when they took the oil cap off. I didn't really
 understand at the time...

Wow!


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Older