Re: [MBZ] R12

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

If it's "recycled" no telling what it really is.


On Thu, Jul 27, 2023, at 16:43, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
> I'd never looked before but FB marketplace has all sorts of R12 all 
> over New England. Good tip!
>
> -Curt
>
>
> On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 05:34:20 PM EDT, RICK HAWKINS via 
> Mercedes  wrote: 
>
>
>
>
>
>> Folks
>
> There is r12 available on FB and ebay etc ….. Craigslist 
>
> I’ve bought and sold lots of it usually buying for about $10 per lb or 
> can 12oz then sold it for prob 20$    Contact me directly if you can’t 
> manage to get  enough for the car  
>
> Xx rick
>
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Re: [MBZ] R12

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

Yep. Vacuum down to empty and then fill with an R12 replacement.


On Thu, Jul 27, 2023, at 14:56, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes wrote:
> Use some “Test Refrigerant” or Freeze 12
>
> --FT
> Sent from iFōn
>
>> On Jul 27, 2023, at 3:35 PM, Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Anyone still able to get it? The 85 300D needs a recharge and I cringe at 
>> the thought of an R134a conversion.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] R12

[OK Don via Mercedes]

I have an partially full bottle of R12 that can be available, if you can
figure a reasonable way of getting from here to there 

On Thu, Jul 27, 2023 at 2:35 PM Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Anyone still able to get it? The 85 300D needs a recharge and I cringe at
> the thought of an R134a conversion.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
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-- 
OK Don

"Quality of life is inversely proportional to the amount of clothing you
are wearing."

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Werner
Von Braun

"In science if you know what you are doing you should not be doing it.
In engineering if you do not know what you are doing you should not be
doing it."
-- Richard W. Hamming, The Art of Doing Science and Engineering
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] R12

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

I was looking for a case of R-134a a few months ago on eBay and there was none 
to be found. The seller I had bought it from in the past was gone, too. There 
must have been some sort of change that took place with selling refrigerants on 
eBay, I'm thinking.

-D

From: Mercedes  on behalf of Curt Raymond via 
Mercedes 
Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2023 5:43 PM
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com 
Cc: Curt Raymond ; RICK HAWKINS 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] R12

I'd never looked before but FB marketplace has all sorts of R12 all over New 
England. Good tip!

-Curt


On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 05:34:20 PM EDT, RICK HAWKINS via Mercedes 
 wrote:





> Folks

There is r12 available on FB and ebay etc ….. Craigslist

I’ve bought and sold lots of it usually buying for about $10 per lb or can 12oz 
then sold it for prob 20$Contact me directly if you can’t manage to get  
enough for the car

Xx rick

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Re: [MBZ] R12

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

I'd never looked before but FB marketplace has all sorts of R12 all over New 
England. Good tip!

-Curt


On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 05:34:20 PM EDT, RICK HAWKINS via Mercedes 
 wrote: 





> Folks

There is r12 available on FB and ebay etc ….. Craigslist 

I’ve bought and sold lots of it usually buying for about $10 per lb or can 12oz 
then sold it for prob 20$    Contact me directly if you can’t manage to get  
enough for the car  

Xx rick

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[MBZ] R12

[RICK HAWKINS via Mercedes]

> Folks

There is r12 available on FB and ebay etc ….. Craigslist 

I’ve bought and sold lots of it usually buying for about $10 per lb or can 12oz 
then sold it for prob 20$Contact me directly if you can’t manage to get  
enough for the car  

Xx rick

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Re: [MBZ] R12

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

Use some “Test Refrigerant” or Freeze 12

--FT
Sent from iFōn

> On Jul 27, 2023, at 3:35 PM, Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Anyone still able to get it? The 85 300D needs a recharge and I cringe at 
> the thought of an R134a conversion.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
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> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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[MBZ] R12

[Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes]

Anyone still able to get it? The 85 300D needs a recharge and I cringe at the 
thought of an R134a conversion.

Sent from my iPhone

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Re: [MBZ] R12 vs. R134

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Fri, 28 Apr 2023 20:49:05 -0400 Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
 wrote:

> I'll probably need another dryer bottle too.

Yes.

From nearly 6 years ago,

==

   From: Rick Knoble via Mercedes 
Subject: [MBZ] Video W123 Sanden, Dual Parallel flow condenser,
   and r134a results
   Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2017 19:57:02 +

Not me, not mine.

How many things can you spot that are incorrect...?‎ (will probably drive
Dan P into a rant).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5lvHxCVxWg=em

Rick

==


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] R12 vs. R134

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

I'll probably need another dryer bottle too.

On Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 7:46 PM Jim Cathey via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Nitrogen tests only one thing: does it leak statically.  A test
> refrigerant tests everything.
> After it passes the test, which can last as long as you like, you put R12
> back in.
> That's the official story.
>
> -- Jim
>
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Re: [MBZ] R12 vs. R134

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

Nitrogen tests only one thing: does it leak statically.  A test refrigerant 
tests everything.
After it passes the test, which can last as long as you like, you put R12 back 
in.
That's the official story.

-- Jim

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Re: [MBZ] R12 vs. R134

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

Nitrogen is always nice for testing. Has anyone explained to Andrew that “test 
refrigerant” as you’re describing contains propane?

< pause >

Of course, it is approved in other countries for refrigerant applications.

-D

> On Apr 28, 2023, at 4:32 PM, Jim Cathey  wrote:
> 
>> If you do, just understand that without changing the condenser it will not 
>> be very efficient. On hot summer days it may not do the job.
> 
> That is the advantage of the test refrigerant:  For $6, only, you're back 
> running again, good as new.
> 
> -- Jim
> 

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Re: [MBZ] R12 vs. R134

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

> If you do, just understand that without changing the condenser it will not be 
> very efficient. On hot summer days it may not do the job.

That is the advantage of the test refrigerant:  For $6, only, you're back 
running again, good as new.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] R12 vs. R134

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

If you do, just understand that without changing the condenser it will not be 
very efficient. On hot summer days it may not do the job.

-D

On Apr 28, 2023, at 3:10 PM, Andrew Strasfogel 
mailto:astrasfo...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Definitely gonna check for leaks.  I will probably elect to convert to R134.

On Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 12:32 PM dan penoff.com via 
Mercedes mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
This may explain why it can’t be found on eBay any more.

No problem buying it in AZ. Tons of the stuff on the shelf.

-D

> On Apr 28, 2023, at 9:16 AM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes 
> mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
>
> Here in WA you can't even buy R134 over the counter anymore.  The 
> enviro-weenies
> (?) seem to have closed that 'horrendous loophole'.  Only licensed shops can 
> have it.
> Or, for me, drive the short distance to ID and buy all you want.
>
> -- Jim
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] R12 vs. R134

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Definitely gonna check for leaks.  I will probably elect to convert to R134.

On Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 12:32 PM dan penoff.com via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> This may explain why it can’t be found on eBay any more.
>
> No problem buying it in AZ. Tons of the stuff on the shelf.
>
> -D
>
> > On Apr 28, 2023, at 9:16 AM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > Here in WA you can't even buy R134 over the counter anymore.  The
> enviro-weenies
> > (?) seem to have closed that 'horrendous loophole'.  Only licensed shops
> can have it.
> > Or, for me, drive the short distance to ID and buy all you want.
> >
> > -- Jim
> >
> >
> > ___
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Re: [MBZ] R12 vs. R134

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

This may explain why it can’t be found on eBay any more.

No problem buying it in AZ. Tons of the stuff on the shelf.

-D

> On Apr 28, 2023, at 9:16 AM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Here in WA you can't even buy R134 over the counter anymore.  The 
> enviro-weenies
> (?) seem to have closed that 'horrendous loophole'.  Only licensed shops can 
> have it.
> Or, for me, drive the short distance to ID and buy all you want.
> 
> -- Jim
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] R12 vs. R134

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

> My 300SD W126 has not yet been converted to R134 and the AC does not run
> ICE COLD.  Should I try to hunt down some freon, or convert to R134?  Is
> R12 still available or prohibitively expensive?

I recommend testing the system thoroughly for leaks.  A proper test can
take years.  Costs about $6 (or used to!) to test-fill.  It's also more 
effective
than R12, and is mineral-oil compatible.  In the hottest climes it might not
work so well, or so I've heard.  (Gas thermodynamic details omitted here.)
Vacuum, fill, and enjoy.  Repeat as necessary.

Here in WA you can't even buy R134 over the counter anymore.  The enviro-weenies
(?) seem to have closed that 'horrendous loophole'.  Only licensed shops can 
have it.
Or, for me, drive the short distance to ID and buy all you want.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] R12 vs. R134

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Thu, 27 Apr 2023 21:49:03 -0600 Craig via Mercedes
 wrote:

> On Fri, 28 Apr 2023 00:32:38 + "dan penoff.com via Mercedes"
>  wrote:
> 
> > For what it’s worth, it looks like eBay doesn’t allow R134a sales any
> > more. I used to buy it in quantity there and I checked today and
> > couldn’t find any. Weird.
> 
> Yes, it certainly is wierd. If you type "R-134" in the search bar, when
> the results are presented, there are links to different searches under
> the box in which you put the search terms.
> 
> Those different searches are, "30 lb cylinder r-134a refrigerant",
> "r 134a refrigerant", and "a c r-134a refrigerant", none of which bring
> up R-134A refrigerant. The search for the 30 lb cylinder brings up a
> couple of listings Envirosafe refrigerant, but nothing else.

I was mistaken. There is ONE listing

https://www.ebay.com/itm/325634595166
6ea 12oz cans of R-134a for $125.00


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] R12 vs. R134

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Fri, 28 Apr 2023 00:32:38 + "dan penoff.com via Mercedes"
 wrote:

> For what it’s worth, it looks like eBay doesn’t allow R134a sales any
> more. I used to buy it in quantity there and I checked today and
> couldn’t find any. Weird.

Yes, it certainly is wierd. If you type "R-134" in the search bar, when
the results are presented, there are links to different searches under
the box in which you put the search terms.

Those different searches are, "30 lb cylinder r-134a refrigerant",
"r 134a refrigerant", and "a c r-134a refrigerant", none of which bring up
R-134A refrigerant. The search for the 30 lb cylinder brings up a couple
of listings Envirosafe refrigerant, but nothing else.

Yes, wierd.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] R12 vs. R134

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Thu, 27 Apr 2023 23:48:47 + "dan penoff.com via Mercedes"
 wrote:

> To clarify, a parallel flow condenser allows you to use R134a and get
> comparable performance with the prior R12 system.

To clarify a little more, R-134A is not as efficient in its heat transfer
in the condenser and needs either a larger condenser or one which gets
rid of heat better. A parallel-flow condenser gets rid of heat better.

My 1980 300SD was converted to R134. I don't know what was done or who
did it (out in California). I don't know if it has a parallel-flow
condenser.

I guess I will see how it cools -- maybe a little trip to Las Cruces in
July or August would show how good it is.

Thank you for the links, Dan. If my car's A/C is lacking, I will be
making use of them


Craig


> > On Apr 27, 2023, at 4:45 PM, dan penoff.com  wrote:
> > 
> > You have two choices:
> > 
> > 1.) Find a shop that will do R12; or,
> > 
> > 2.) Replace your current condenser with a parallel flow condenser.
> > There is a company that makes them for W123 and W126 chassis cars. I
> > put one in my 350SDL and it was a “portal to the Arctic” when I was
> > done.
> > 
> > If you’re planning on owning the car for a while, I would seriously
> > consider going with a parallel flow condenser. R12 is getting harder
> > and harder to find, not to mention more expensive.
> > 
> >  > > Parallel Flow Condenser Upgrade Kit W126 – Klima Design
> > > Works > > >
> > klimakit.com > > [klimafavicon.ico.ico]

Re: [MBZ] R12 vs. R134

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

Thanks for suggesting the alternative, Allan! I had forgotten about that - I’ve 
used it successfully in the past as an R12 alternative and it work well. That 
said, if the hoses haven’t been changed to barrier style hoses, you have to 
evacuate and recharge from time to time because some of the gas molecules in 
the blend will escape through the hoses, the ratio of gasses gets wonky and it 
stops working or works poorly.

For what it’s worth, it looks like eBay doesn’t allow R134a sales any more. I 
used to buy it in quantity there and I checked today and couldn’t find any. 
Weird.

-D

> On Apr 27, 2023, at 3:57 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> R12 is probably expensive if you can get it and of possibly questionable 
> quality.
> 
> If it's not leaking, I'd try a R12 substitute. Maybe Freeze12, Autofrost, or 
> Jim Cathey's test blend.
> 
> If it's leaking, the blended substitutes are not ideal. Because of the 
> different partial pressures of the gasses, they leak at different rates. To 
> recharge and re-establish the proper blend you'll need to fully evacuate the 
> system (ideally fixing the leaks before you do).
> 
> You can convert to R134a but it's getting expensive too and on the way out. 
> If you do that be sure it's done properly, the old oil flushed out and proper 
> compatible oil used.
> 
> 
>> On Thu, Apr 27, 2023, at 16:59, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
>> My 300SD W126 has not yet been converted to R134 and the AC does not run
>> ICE COLD.  Should I try to hunt down some freon, or convert to R134?  Is
>> R12 still available or prohibitively expensive?
>> 
>> Andrew
>> 1985 300SD
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Re: [MBZ] R12 vs. R134

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

To clarify, a parallel flow condenser allows you to use R134a and get 
comparable performance with the prior R12 system.

-D

> On Apr 27, 2023, at 4:45 PM, dan penoff.com  wrote:
> 
> You have two choices:
> 
> 1.) Find a shop that will do R12; or,
> 
> 2.) Replace your current condenser with a parallel flow condenser. There is a 
> company that makes them for W123 and W126 chassis cars. I put one in my 
> 350SDL and it was a “portal to the Arctic” when I was done.
> 
> If you’re planning on owning the car for a while, I would seriously consider 
> going with a parallel flow condenser. R12 is getting harder and harder to 
> find, not to mention more expensive.
> 
> 
> Parallel Flow Condenser Upgrade Kit W126 – Klima Design 
> Works
> klimakit.com
> [klimafavicon.ico.ico]
> 
> -D
> 
> On Apr 27, 2023, at 3:57 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> R12 is probably expensive if you can get it and of possibly questionable 
> quality.
> 
> If it's not leaking, I'd try a R12 substitute. Maybe Freeze12, Autofrost, or 
> Jim Cathey's test blend.
> 
> If it's leaking, the blended substitutes are not ideal. Because of the 
> different partial pressures of the gasses, they leak at different rates. To 
> recharge and re-establish the proper blend you'll need to fully evacuate the 
> system (ideally fixing the leaks before you do).
> 
> You can convert to R134a but it's getting expensive too and on the way out. 
> If you do that be sure it's done properly, the old oil flushed out and proper 
> compatible oil used.
> 
> 
> On Thu, Apr 27, 2023, at 16:59, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
> My 300SD W126 has not yet been converted to R134 and the AC does not run
> ICE COLD.  Should I try to hunt down some freon, or convert to R134?  Is
> R12 still available or prohibitively expensive?
> 
> Andrew
> 1985 300SD
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Re: [MBZ] R12 vs. R134

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

You have two choices:

1.) Find a shop that will do R12; or,

2.) Replace your current condenser with a parallel flow condenser. There is a 
company that makes them for W123 and W126 chassis cars. I put one in my 350SDL 
and it was a “portal to the Arctic” when I was done.

If you’re planning on owning the car for a while, I would seriously consider 
going with a parallel flow condenser. R12 is getting harder and harder to find, 
not to mention more expensive.


Parallel Flow Condenser Upgrade Kit W126 – Klima Design 
Works
klimakit.com
[klimafavicon.ico.ico]

-D

On Apr 27, 2023, at 3:57 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes  
wrote:

R12 is probably expensive if you can get it and of possibly questionable 
quality.

If it's not leaking, I'd try a R12 substitute. Maybe Freeze12, Autofrost, or 
Jim Cathey's test blend.

If it's leaking, the blended substitutes are not ideal. Because of the 
different partial pressures of the gasses, they leak at different rates. To 
recharge and re-establish the proper blend you'll need to fully evacuate the 
system (ideally fixing the leaks before you do).

You can convert to R134a but it's getting expensive too and on the way out. If 
you do that be sure it's done properly, the old oil flushed out and proper 
compatible oil used.


On Thu, Apr 27, 2023, at 16:59, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
My 300SD W126 has not yet been converted to R134 and the AC does not run
ICE COLD.  Should I try to hunt down some freon, or convert to R134?  Is
R12 still available or prohibitively expensive?

Andrew
1985 300SD
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Re: [MBZ] R12 vs. R134

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

R12 is probably expensive if you can get it and of possibly questionable 
quality.

If it's not leaking, I'd try a R12 substitute. Maybe Freeze12, Autofrost, or 
Jim Cathey's test blend.

If it's leaking, the blended substitutes are not ideal. Because of the 
different partial pressures of the gasses, they leak at different rates. To 
recharge and re-establish the proper blend you'll need to fully evacuate the 
system (ideally fixing the leaks before you do).

You can convert to R134a but it's getting expensive too and on the way out. If 
you do that be sure it's done properly, the old oil flushed out and proper 
compatible oil used.


On Thu, Apr 27, 2023, at 16:59, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
> My 300SD W126 has not yet been converted to R134 and the AC does not run
> ICE COLD.  Should I try to hunt down some freon, or convert to R134?  Is
> R12 still available or prohibitively expensive?
>
> Andrew
> 1985 300SD
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Re: [MBZ] R12 vs. R134

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

The purists will tell you that you should look for R12.
The real question is what else should you do apart from adding freon to 
try to ensure that you are not wasting your money on something that will 
soon leak out.


Randy


On 27/04/2023 4:59 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:

My 300SD W126 has not yet been converted to R134 and the AC does not run
ICE COLD.  Should I try to hunt down some freon, or convert to R134?  Is
R12 still available or prohibitively expensive?

Andrew
1985 300SD
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[MBZ] R12 vs. R134

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

My 300SD W126 has not yet been converted to R134 and the AC does not run
ICE COLD.  Should I try to hunt down some freon, or convert to R134?  Is
R12 still available or prohibitively expensive?

Andrew
1985 300SD
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Re: [MBZ] r12 to r134a Conversion in my W124

[Bob Rentfro via Mercedes]

Getting the stuff sounds like a good idea. Not sure why I haven’t done it 
before now. 
I suppose I’ll have to have a little YouTube fest on figuring out how to find 
the leaks and assess what I need to do.

Bob R

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 7, 2019, at 7:42 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> If you’re so inclined, you can get everything you need to service AC systems 
> at Harbor Fright for under $200, if that. I did it about 3-4 years ago and 
> have paid for the stuff many, many times over.
> 
> Living in FL it’s almost a requirement to have the stuff.
> 
> -D
> 
> 
> 
>>> On May 7, 2019, at 10:22 AM, Jim Cathey  wrote:
>>> 
>>> You might have to call around to find a shop that will do R12 and it won’t 
>>> be cheap, but it’s well worth it.
>> 
>> I spend about $8/year (each) on my leaky non-R134a cars.  You need a vacuum 
>> pump and a gauge set.
>> And a vent thermometer.  All the tools together are _less_ than you'd spend 
>> for one servicing.
>> 
>> -- Jim
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] r12 to r134a Conversion in my W124

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

If you’re so inclined, you can get everything you need to service AC systems at 
Harbor Fright for under $200, if that. I did it about 3-4 years ago and have 
paid for the stuff many, many times over.

Living in FL it’s almost a requirement to have the stuff.

-D



> On May 7, 2019, at 10:22 AM, Jim Cathey  wrote:
> 
>> You might have to call around to find a shop that will do R12 and it won’t 
>> be cheap, but it’s well worth it.
> 
> I spend about $8/year (each) on my leaky non-R134a cars.  You need a vacuum 
> pump and a gauge set.
> And a vent thermometer.  All the tools together are _less_ than you'd spend 
> for one servicing.
> 
> -- Jim
> 
> 


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Re: [MBZ] r12 to r134a Conversion in my W124

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

> You might have to call around to find a shop that will do R12 and it won’t be 
> cheap, but it’s well worth it.

I spend about $8/year (each) on my leaky non-R134a cars.  You need a vacuum 
pump and a gauge set.
And a vent thermometer.  All the tools together are _less_ than you'd spend for 
one servicing.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] r12 to r134a Conversion in my W124

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Considering the climate you’re in, absolutely. It makes a noticeable 
difference, believe me.

The only way you can get decent efficiency with R134a in your car would be to 
install a parallel flow condenser, which isn’t cheap. R134a doesn’t condense as 
easily as R12, so it needs more surface area to do so. When you convert from an 
R12 system, the condenser is nowhere near as efficient as a “proper” R134a 
condenser, so you’ll never get the kinds of temperatures or efficiency you have 
with R12.

You might have to call around to find a shop that will do R12 and it won’t be 
cheap, but it’s well worth it.

-D

  
> On May 7, 2019, at 10:09 AM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> So... it seems the consensus is to keep it r12. 
> Thanks for the good information, y’all. 
> 
> Bob R
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On May 7, 2019, at 6:40 AM, MG via Mercedes  wrote:
>> 
>> I'm with Rick here. I have this in two w123 cars here in Fl and it is worlds 
>> better then the 134a that was in there when I got them.
>> 
>> MG
>> 
>> Rick Knoble via Mercedes wrote:
>>> I'd probably try Envirosafe es134a. You are in AZ so you need exceptional 
>>> ac. Shouldn't cost more than $12- $18 for juice and whatever labor.
>>> https://www.es-refrigerants.com/products/w/id/31/t/134a-replacement/
>>> Rick
>>> From: mercedes@okiebenz.com
>>> Sent: May 6, 2019 10:32 PM
>>> To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
>>> Reply-to: mercedes@okiebenz.com
>>> Cc: azbob...@gmail.com
>>> Subject: [MBZ] r12 to r134a Conversion in my W124
>>> Anyone have the scoop on this? There is nothing useful on the Google 
>>> machine. My Indy says it’ll cost me around $200 for him to do the 
>>> conversion.
>>> I don’t even know exactly all I’d have to do for this task. According to 
>>> the mountain of records I got with this car, ALL of the AC components were 
>>> replaced in 2005. It remained r12.
>>> Guidance?
>>> Bob R
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> ___
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>> 
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Re: [MBZ] r12 to r134a Conversion in my W124

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I’ve used it in the finnie among other places and it works well. Makes ice 
cubes in the finnie with it’s little under dash aftermarket unit.

Sadly, the hoses are pretty porous at this point, so I really need to replace 
them. For now I might just drop a can of sealer in it…

-D


> On May 7, 2019, at 9:40 AM, MG via Mercedes  wrote:
> 
> I'm with Rick here. I have this in two w123 cars here in Fl and it is worlds 
> better then the 134a that was in there when I got them.
> 
> MG
> 
> Rick Knoble via Mercedes wrote:
>> I'd probably try Envirosafe es134a. You are in AZ so you need exceptional 
>> ac. Shouldn't cost more than $12- $18 for juice and whatever labor.
>> https://www.es-refrigerants.com/products/w/id/31/t/134a-replacement/
>> Rick
>> From: mercedes@okiebenz.com
>> Sent: May 6, 2019 10:32 PM
>> To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
>> Reply-to: mercedes@okiebenz.com
>> Cc: azbob...@gmail.com
>> Subject: [MBZ] r12 to r134a Conversion in my W124
>> Anyone have the scoop on this? There is nothing useful on the Google 
>> machine. My Indy says it’ll cost me around $200 for him to do the conversion.
>> I don’t even know exactly all I’d have to do for this task. According to the 
>> mountain of records I got with this car, ALL of the AC components were 
>> replaced in 2005. It remained r12.
>> Guidance?
>> Bob R
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> ___
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Re: [MBZ] r12 to r134a Conversion in my W124

[Bob Rentfro via Mercedes]

So... it seems the consensus is to keep it r12. 
Thanks for the good information, y’all. 

Bob R

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 7, 2019, at 6:40 AM, MG via Mercedes  wrote:
> 
> I'm with Rick here. I have this in two w123 cars here in Fl and it is worlds 
> better then the 134a that was in there when I got them.
> 
> MG
> 
> Rick Knoble via Mercedes wrote:
>> I'd probably try Envirosafe es134a. You are in AZ so you need exceptional 
>> ac. Shouldn't cost more than $12- $18 for juice and whatever labor.
>> https://www.es-refrigerants.com/products/w/id/31/t/134a-replacement/
>> Rick
>> From: mercedes@okiebenz.com
>> Sent: May 6, 2019 10:32 PM
>> To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
>> Reply-to: mercedes@okiebenz.com
>> Cc: azbob...@gmail.com
>> Subject: [MBZ] r12 to r134a Conversion in my W124
>> Anyone have the scoop on this? There is nothing useful on the Google 
>> machine. My Indy says it’ll cost me around $200 for him to do the conversion.
>> I don’t even know exactly all I’d have to do for this task. According to the 
>> mountain of records I got with this car, ALL of the AC components were 
>> replaced in 2005. It remained r12.
>> Guidance?
>> Bob R
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] r12 to r134a Conversion in my W124

[MG via Mercedes]

I'm with Rick here. I have this in two w123 
cars here in Fl and it is worlds better then 
the 134a that was in there when I got them.


MG

Rick Knoble via Mercedes wrote:

I'd probably try Envirosafe es134a. You are in AZ so you need exceptional ac. 
Shouldn't cost more than $12- $18 for juice and whatever labor.

https://www.es-refrigerants.com/products/w/id/31/t/134a-replacement/


Rick

From: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: May 6, 2019 10:32 PM
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Reply-to: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Cc: azbob...@gmail.com
Subject: [MBZ] r12 to r134a Conversion in my W124


Anyone have the scoop on this? There is nothing useful on the Google machine. 
My Indy says it’ll cost me around $200 for him to do the conversion.
I don’t even know exactly all I’d have to do for this task. According to the 
mountain of records I got with this car, ALL of the AC components were replaced 
in 2005. It remained r12.
Guidance?

Bob R

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [MBZ] r12 to r134a Conversion in my W124

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Yes.  I use that in my '87 300TD.  Right now there is a leak under the dash, so 
the gas ratio is off, but it still works pretty good.

However, your independent garage may not want to agree to using it.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC

On May 6, 2019 11:40:49 PM EDT, Rick Knoble via Mercedes 
 wrote:
>I'd probably try Envirosafe es134a. You are in AZ so you need
>exceptional ac. Shouldn't cost more than $12- $18 for juice and
>whatever labor.
>
>https://www.es-refrigerants.com/products/w/id/31/t/134a-replacement/
>
>
>Rick
>
>From: mercedes@okiebenz.com
>Sent: May 6, 2019 10:32 PM
>To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
>Reply-to: mercedes@okiebenz.com
>Cc: azbob...@gmail.com
>Subject: [MBZ] r12 to r134a Conversion in my W124
>
>
>Anyone have the scoop on this? There is nothing useful on the Google
>machine. My Indy says it’ll cost me around $200 for him to do the
>conversion.
>I don’t even know exactly all I’d have to do for this task. According
>to the mountain of records I got with this car, ALL of the AC
>components were replaced in 2005. It remained r12.
>Guidance?
>
>Bob R
>
>Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [MBZ] r12 to r134a Conversion in my W124

[G Mann via Mercedes]

http://store.arsnet.com/arsweb/en-us/PhoenixMetroLocations

Proper name is Arizona Refrigeration Supply... the link above gives
locations in Phoenix. They have always had what ever I needed... Not always
cheap... just available.

On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 9:30 PM G Mann  wrote:

> Look up Arizona Refrigeration. If you are a "certified AC " guy [short
> test you can do online to become one] they will sell you all the R12 you
> need.
>
> Keep it original, it will blow cold. Fix what ever leaks, AZ Refrig can
> make up new hoses for you, just take in the old ones.
> Corner of McDowell and Grand Ave, approx. All things refrigeration
> available.
>
> On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 9:02 PM Curley McLain via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
>> so keep it r12, or an r12 replacement or Jim's "test refrigerant"
>> propane and butaneR134a sucks in an r12 car.
>>
>> Bob Rentfro via Mercedes wrote on 5/6/19 10:32 PM:
>> > Anyone have the scoop on this? There is nothing useful on the Google
>> machine. My Indy says it’ll cost me around $200 for him to do the
>> conversion.
>> > I don’t even know exactly all I’d have to do for this task. According
>> to the mountain of records I got with this car, ALL of the AC components
>> were replaced in 2005. It remained r12.
>> > Guidance?
>> >
>> > Bob R
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>> > ___
>> > http://www.okiebenz.com
>> >
>> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> >
>> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> >
>>
>>
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Re: [MBZ] r12 to r134a Conversion in my W124

[G Mann via Mercedes]

Look up Arizona Refrigeration. If you are a "certified AC " guy [short test
you can do online to become one] they will sell you all the R12 you need.

Keep it original, it will blow cold. Fix what ever leaks, AZ Refrig can
make up new hoses for you, just take in the old ones.
Corner of McDowell and Grand Ave, approx. All things refrigeration
available.

On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 9:02 PM Curley McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> so keep it r12, or an r12 replacement or Jim's "test refrigerant"
> propane and butaneR134a sucks in an r12 car.
>
> Bob Rentfro via Mercedes wrote on 5/6/19 10:32 PM:
> > Anyone have the scoop on this? There is nothing useful on the Google
> machine. My Indy says it’ll cost me around $200 for him to do the
> conversion.
> > I don’t even know exactly all I’d have to do for this task. According to
> the mountain of records I got with this car, ALL of the AC components were
> replaced in 2005. It remained r12.
> > Guidance?
> >
> > Bob R
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
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> >
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> >
>
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Re: [MBZ] r12 to r134a Conversion in my W124

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

so keep it r12, or an r12 replacement or Jim's "test refrigerant"  
propane and butane    R134a sucks in an r12 car.


Bob Rentfro via Mercedes wrote on 5/6/19 10:32 PM:

Anyone have the scoop on this? There is nothing useful on the Google machine. 
My Indy says it’ll cost me around $200 for him to do the conversion.
I don’t even know exactly all I’d have to do for this task. According to the 
mountain of records I got with this car, ALL of the AC components were replaced 
in 2005. It remained r12.
Guidance?

Bob R

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Re: [MBZ] r12 to r134a Conversion in my W124

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

I think most here will say: don't.  Keep it R12 but maybe with an R12 
replacement refrigerany.

> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Bob
> Rentfro via Mercedes
> Sent: Monday, May 06, 2019 11:32 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Cc: Bob Rentfro 
> Subject: [MBZ] r12 to r134a Conversion in my W124
> 
> Anyone have the scoop on this? There is nothing useful on the Google
> machine. My Indy says it’ll cost me around $200 for him to do the conversion.
> I don’t even know exactly all I’d have to do for this task. According to the
> mountain of records I got with this car, ALL of the AC components were
> replaced in 2005. It remained r12.
> Guidance?
> 
> Bob R
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
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> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] r12 to r134a Conversion in my W124

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

I'd probably try Envirosafe es134a. You are in AZ so you need exceptional ac. 
Shouldn't cost more than $12- $18 for juice and whatever labor.

https://www.es-refrigerants.com/products/w/id/31/t/134a-replacement/


Rick

From: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: May 6, 2019 10:32 PM
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Reply-to: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Cc: azbob...@gmail.com
Subject: [MBZ] r12 to r134a Conversion in my W124


Anyone have the scoop on this? There is nothing useful on the Google machine. 
My Indy says it’ll cost me around $200 for him to do the conversion.
I don’t even know exactly all I’d have to do for this task. According to the 
mountain of records I got with this car, ALL of the AC components were replaced 
in 2005. It remained r12.
Guidance?

Bob R

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [MBZ] r12 to r134a Conversion in my W124

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Mon, 6 May 2019 20:32:06 -0700 Bob Rentfro via Mercedes
 wrote:

> Anyone have the scoop on this? There is nothing useful on the Google
> machine. My Indy says it’ll cost me around $200 for him to do the
> conversion. I don’t even know exactly all I’d have to do for this task.
> According to the mountain of records I got with this car, ALL of the AC
> components were replaced in 2005. It remained r12. Guidance?

Is it not working now?

Why change it to R134a?


Craig

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[MBZ] r12 to r134a Conversion in my W124

[Bob Rentfro via Mercedes]

Anyone have the scoop on this? There is nothing useful on the Google machine. 
My Indy says it’ll cost me around $200 for him to do the conversion.
I don’t even know exactly all I’d have to do for this task. According to the 
mountain of records I got with this car, ALL of the AC components were replaced 
in 2005. It remained r12. 
Guidance?

Bob R

Sent from my iPhone
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[MBZ] R12 Replacement

[Dan Penoff]

What is the R12 replacement based on propane that people here on the list have 
been using?

I can't recall the name.

I have a coworker who is into old Toyotas, and he has one that needs some major 
AC work and he doesn't want to convert it to R134a due to the crappy 
performance he's seen in similar vintage cars with the conversion.

Thanks,

Dan
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Re: [MBZ] R12 Replacement

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

Dura cool, auto frost, there are several

Sent from my iPhone

 On Oct 30, 2013, at 1:31 PM, Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com wrote:
 
 What is the R12 replacement based on propane that people here on the list 
 have been using?
 
 I can't recall the name.
 
 I have a coworker who is into old Toyotas, and he has one that needs some 
 major AC work and he doesn't want to convert it to R134a due to the crappy 
 performance he's seen in similar vintage cars with the conversion.
 
 Thanks,
 
 Dan
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Re: [MBZ] R12 Replacement

[Alex Chamberlain]

ES-12 aka Envirosafe
www.autorefrigerants.com

Alex Chamberlain
apchamberl...@gmail.com
Sent from my Android phone.  Please excuse brevity and typos.

On Oct 30, 2013 11:31 AM, Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com wrote:

 What is the R12 replacement based on propane that people here on the list
 have been using?

 I can't recall the name.

 I have a coworker who is into old Toyotas, and he has one that needs some
 major AC work and he doesn't want to convert it to R134a due to the crappy
 performance he's seen in similar vintage cars with the conversion.

 Thanks,

 Dan
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Re: [MBZ] R12 Replacement

[Rick Knoble]

Enviro-Safe. 

http://www.es-refrigerants.com/

http://autorefrigerants.com/co00033.htm


Rick
Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 30, 2013, at 1:31 PM, Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com wrote:

 What is the R12 replacement based on propane that people here on the list 
 have been using?
 
 I can't recall the name.
 
 I have a coworker who is into old Toyotas, and he has one that needs some 
 major AC work and he doesn't want to convert it to R134a due to the crappy 
 performance he's seen in similar vintage cars with the conversion.
 
 Thanks,
 
 Dan
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Re: [MBZ] R12 Replacement

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

That's the other one I could not think of

Sent from my iPhone

 On Oct 30, 2013, at 2:02 PM, Alex Chamberlain apchamberl...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 ES-12 aka Envirosafe
 www.autorefrigerants.com
 
 Alex Chamberlain
 apchamberl...@gmail.com
 Sent from my Android phone.  Please excuse brevity and typos.
 
 On Oct 30, 2013 11:31 AM, Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com wrote:
 
 What is the R12 replacement based on propane that people here on the list
 have been using?
 
 I can't recall the name.
 
 I have a coworker who is into old Toyotas, and he has one that needs some
 major AC work and he doesn't want to convert it to R134a due to the crappy
 performance he's seen in similar vintage cars with the conversion.
 
 Thanks,
 
 Dan
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Re: [MBZ] R12 Replacement

[Jon Agne]

Use the Industrial ES-12….it’s a lot colder.  You’ll havce to spring for hazmat 
shipping, but it’s worth it.

I’ve used both.

AND, order it directly from the factory.


On Oct 30, 2013, at 2:31 PM, Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com wrote:

 What is the R12 replacement based on propane that people here on the list 
 have been using?
 
 I can't recall the name.
 
 I have a coworker who is into old Toyotas, and he has one that needs some 
 major AC work and he doesn't want to convert it to R134a due to the crappy 
 performance he's seen in similar vintage cars with the conversion.
 
 Thanks,
 
 Dan
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[MBZ] R12 to R134a switch?

[Alex Chamberlain]

When did M-B switch A/C systems over to (factory-filled) R134a?  I know the
change was required to happen (in the USA) by the 1996 model year, but some
makers phased it in earlier.  Maybe it varied by model?

Alex
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Re: [MBZ] R12 to R134a switch?

[Max Dillon]

My '95 124 has R134.

 Very respectfully,
/s/
Max Dillon
'87 300TD 334k miles (Off with the head!)
'95 E300 281k miles (daily driving duties)
'73 Balboa 20 (High  dry until the head is back on)
Charleston SC





From: Alex Chamberlain apchamberl...@gmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Fri, March 18, 2011 2:10:45 PM
Subject: [MBZ] R12 to R134a switch?

When did M-B switch A/C systems over to (factory-filled) R134a?  I know the
change was required to happen (in the USA) by the 1996 model year, but some
makers phased it in earlier.  Maybe it varied by model?

Alex
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Re: [MBZ] R12 to R134a switch?

[Alex Chamberlain]

On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 11:29 AM, Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.netwrote:

 My '95 124 has R134.


Thanks Max, useful data point.  I was primarily interested in whether the
'94-'95 facelift 124s had R134, but am curious about other models as well.

Alex
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Re: [MBZ] R12 to R134a switch?

[Mitch Haley]

Max Dillon wrote:

My '95 124 has R134.


I think my '92 W124 was converted to R134a, but I'd have to check carefully to 
make sure it wasn't that way from the factory.


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Re: [MBZ] R12 to R134a switch?

[OK Don]

My '92 300D 2.5T has factory R134a. The '90 has R12. The '91 300E had R12.

On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 3:41 PM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote:

 Max Dillon wrote:

 My '95 124 has R134.


 I think my '92 W124 was converted to R134a, but I'd have to check carefully
 to make sure it wasn't that way from the factory.
  --

OK Don
2001 ML320
1992 300D 2.5T
1990 300D 2.5T
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
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[MBZ] R12 unit

[Dieselhead]

http://www.interschola.com/admin/ebayitembrowsernew.php?id=21315

send a bid.

FYI
No interest etc.

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Re: [MBZ] R12

[Larry T]

Do you still have any?  If so, I'll take 2 please.

LarryT
91 300D


In God We Trust

--
From: Rolf r...@winmutt.com
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 8:51 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: [MBZ] R12


Just in time for winter. $20/can.

-Rolf

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[MBZ] R12

[Rolf]

Just in time for winter. $20/can.

-Rolf

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Re: [MBZ] R12

[WILTON]

Is that an offer?  How many?

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Rolf r...@winmutt.com

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 8:51 AM
Subject: [MBZ] R12



Just in time for winter. $20/can.

-Rolf

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Re: [MBZ] R12

[Rolf]

Selling. I have 3? cans I think.

On 09/03/2010 09:08 AM, WILTON wrote:

Is that an offer?  How many?

Wilton

- Original Message - From: Rolf r...@winmutt.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 8:51 AM
Subject: [MBZ] R12



Just in time for winter. $20/can.

-Rolf

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Re: [MBZ] R12

[WILTON]

Understand R12; not substitute; I'll take 'em.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Rolf r...@winmutt.com

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 10:49 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] R12




Selling. I have 3? cans I think.

On 09/03/2010 09:08 AM, WILTON wrote:

Is that an offer?  How many?

Wilton

- Original Message - From: Rolf r...@winmutt.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 8:51 AM
Subject: [MBZ] R12



Just in time for winter. $20/can.

-Rolf

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Re: [MBZ] R12

[Hursley]

I have a few cans too since my cars are no longer on R12.  If interested, 
email me privately.


- Original Message - 
From: WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 2:10 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] R12



Understand R12; not substitute; I'll take 'em.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Rolf r...@winmutt.com

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 10:49 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] R12




Selling. I have 3? cans I think.

On 09/03/2010 09:08 AM, WILTON wrote:

Is that an offer?  How many?

Wilton

- Original Message - From: Rolf r...@winmutt.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 8:51 AM
Subject: [MBZ] R12



Just in time for winter. $20/can.

-Rolf

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[MBZ] R12

[Robert Rentfro]

Who has a can of R12 they will sell me?

The Acura needs a charge its first one ever. Not bad for 21 years.

 

Bob R.

'77 300D 190K

'87 Acura Legend 191K

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Re: [MBZ] R12

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

check ebay

Robert Rentfro wrote:
 Who has a can of R12 they will sell me?
 
 The Acura needs a charge its first one ever. Not bad for 21 years.
 
  
 
 Bob R.
 
 '77 300D 190K
 
 '87 Acura Legend 191K
 
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-- 
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
  94 E420, 92 300SD, 92 300D, 92 250D Turbo, 92 300E 4Matic,
  91 300D, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro,
  84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 81 380SLC, 80 240D, 76 240D,
  76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250
http://www.okiebenz.com

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Re: [MBZ] R12

[Robert Rentfro]

So can I slam a can of that freeze 12 into this system on the Acura that has
never had anything done to it?
I have to have a certificate to buy r12 on eBay, no?

BobR.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Kaleb C. Striplin
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 5:50 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] R12

check ebay

Robert Rentfro wrote:
 Who has a can of R12 they will sell me?
 
 The Acura needs a charge its first one ever. Not bad for 21 years.
 
  
 
 Bob R.
 
 '77 300D 190K
 
 '87 Acura Legend 191K
 
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-- 
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
  94 E420, 92 300SD, 92 300D, 92 250D Turbo, 92 300E 4Matic,
  91 300D, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro,
  84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 81 380SLC, 80 240D, 76 240D,
  76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250
http://www.okiebenz.com

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Re: [MBZ] R12

[Allan Streib]

Robert Rentfro [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 So can I slam a can of that freeze 12 into this system on the Acura
 that has never had anything done to it?

I *think* that to use Freeze 12 you will need to recover all the R12
and fully vacuum the system.  You can't just top off an R12 charge.

Allan


-- 
1983 300D

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Re: [MBZ] R12 please don't go away

[RELNGSON]

Manufacturing new R12 has been banned in this country but there is still 
old stock around, plus re-cyclers are re-processing stock. It is legal to sell 
what is still in the system.

My 24 year old Porsche with it's marginal-at-best R12 AC system has had 
refrigerant added only twice, in 1988 and 1998. About 1.5 pounds each time as I 
recall. The next time it needs a bit added, it will be again be R12. No repairs 
or parts replacements so far.

RLE


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Re: [MBZ] R12 is Good Stuff

[Tom Hargrave]

R12 is good stuff.

Thanks,
Tom Hargrave
www.kegkits.com
256-656-1924
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of John Robbins
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 1:36 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: [MBZ] R12 is Good Stuff

Filled up the 190D with almost two cans of R12 today.  Got 35*F vent 
temps going 45MPH with 81* ambient and 50% humidity .  Could get 50* 
vent temps at 1500RPM in the driveway.

Now if the brand new high pressure switch would stop leaking when I turn 
the A/C on...

John
'84 190D
'87 300TD

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Re: [MBZ] R12 is Good Stuff

[Dwight E. Giles, Jr]

Amen.  I just had the local stealer fill my 90 300D with R-12-ice cold and
ACC works as supposed to.
Nice-even here in New England. Supposed to be 90 today.  I converted my old
SAAB 900 over to 134a and it was never the same or even right.
Dwight

Dwight E. Giles, Jr.
1979 240D-250K + miles
1990 300D 2.5t 135K miles
Wickford, RI-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Tom Hargrave
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 8:35 AM
To: 'Mercedes Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [MBZ] R12 is Good Stuff

R12 is good stuff.

Thanks,
Tom Hargrave
www.kegkits.com
256-656-1924
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of John Robbins
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 1:36 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: [MBZ] R12 is Good Stuff

Filled up the 190D with almost two cans of R12 today.  Got 35*F vent 
temps going 45MPH with 81* ambient and 50% humidity .  Could get 50* 
vent temps at 1500RPM in the driveway.

Now if the brand new high pressure switch would stop leaking when I turn 
the A/C on...

John
'84 190D
'87 300TD

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Re: [MBZ] R12 is Good Stuff

[Warren Thiptus]

How much did the Stealer charge for the R-12?  And how many pounds did 
they put in?


-Warren

Dwight E. Giles, Jr wrote:

Amen.  I just had the local stealer fill my 90 300D with R-12-ice cold and
ACC works as supposed to.
Nice-even here in New England. Supposed to be 90 today.  I converted my old
SAAB 900 over to 134a and it was never the same or even right.
Dwight

Dwight E. Giles, Jr.
1979 240D-250K + miles
1990 300D 2.5t 135K miles
Wickford, RI-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Tom Hargrave
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 8:35 AM
To: 'Mercedes Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [MBZ] R12 is Good Stuff

R12 is good stuff.

Thanks,
Tom Hargrave
www.kegkits.com
256-656-1924
 
-Original Message-

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of John Robbins
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 1:36 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: [MBZ] R12 is Good Stuff

Filled up the 190D with almost two cans of R12 today.  Got 35*F vent 
temps going 45MPH with 81* ambient and 50% humidity .  Could get 50* 
vent temps at 1500RPM in the driveway.


Now if the brand new high pressure switch would stop leaking when I turn 
the A/C on...


John
'84 190D
'87 300TD

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Re: [MBZ] R12 is Good Stuff

[Dwight E. Giles, Jr]

I went there as a last resort as I couldn't find anyone else around here who
would do. They charged me 99.50 for a little under two pounds. Of course,
they did full inspection of ACC and everything else they wanted to sell me.
Also a free wash and quick detail.  However, I thought it was a good deal
all things considered. I am happy. In addition, I got to test drive a new
Bluetech. FWIW-this dealer is Carriage House in New London CT. A small
family owned dealership on the edge of downtown.  John Peterson and I go
there when we do dealer service, as the one here in RI was the one that
really screwed John on the transmission replacement -remember that long
saga?  This one seems honest and competent, but of course a little spendy.
They have now started a classic care center- they have four mechanics who
have over 70 years of combined experience-you can ask for one of them. I had
one do the valves on my 240D.
Dwight

Dwight E. Giles, Jr.
1979 240D-250K + miles (soon to be for sale)
1990 300D 2.5t 135K miles
Wickford, RI

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Warren Thiptus
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 11:19 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] R12 is Good Stuff

How much did the Stealer charge for the R-12?  And how many pounds did 
they put in?

-Warren

Re: [MBZ] R12 is Good Stuff

[Mitch Haley]

Dwight E. Giles, Jr wrote:
 
 I went there as a last resort as I couldn't find anyone else around here who
 would do. They charged me 99.50 for a little under two pounds. Of course,
 they did full inspection of ACC and everything else they wanted to sell me.
 Also a free wash and quick detail. 

That's about $60 for the freon and 4/10 hour at $100 an hour. Sounds good to me.
Last time I bought R12 installed I paid $40 for two pounds, no work other than
hooking up the hoses and putting in the freon, and this was at a junkyard in 
1994.

Re: [MBZ] R12 is Good Stuff

[Dwight E. Giles, Jr]

Yes-they quoted the price in advance-said up two pounds of Freon for 99.50.

Bissell Cove Quahog  Auto Salvage Co
Dwight E. Giles, Jr.
Wickford RI 02852

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Mitch Haley
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 11:58 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] R12 is Good Stuff



Dwight E. Giles, Jr wrote:
 
 I went there as a last resort as I couldn't find anyone else around here
who
 would do. They charged me 99.50 for a little under two pounds. Of course,
 they did full inspection of ACC and everything else they wanted to sell
me.
 Also a free wash and quick detail. 

That's about $60 for the freon and 4/10 hour at $100 an hour. Sounds good to
me.
Last time I bought R12 installed I paid $40 for two pounds, no work other
than
hooking up the hoses and putting in the freon, and this was at a junkyard in
1994.

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Re: [MBZ] R12 is Good Stuff

[R A Bennell]

I changed my 76 300D to 134 last summer. Really debated having it refilled with 
R12 but was concerned that it would
just leak out and I would lose my money quickly. Used a kit from Wal-Mart and 
it has worked fine. Thought I might
lose the charge over winter as it gets pretty cold here and that would likely 
cause seals to shrink. Still works
fine this spring so have had some luck. Can see a bit of oily film on the top 
of the compressor so it is leaking a
bit but so far so good.

Randy

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Dwight E. Giles, Jr
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 10:19 AM
To: 'Mercedes Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [MBZ] R12 is Good Stuff


Amen.  I just had the local stealer fill my 90 300D with R-12-ice cold and
ACC works as supposed to.
Nice-even here in New England. Supposed to be 90 today.  I converted my old
SAAB 900 over to 134a and it was never the same or even right.
Dwight

Dwight E. Giles, Jr.
1979 240D-250K + miles
1990 300D 2.5t 135K miles
Wickford, RI-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Tom Hargrave
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 8:35 AM
To: 'Mercedes Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [MBZ] R12 is Good Stuff

R12 is good stuff.

Thanks,
Tom Hargrave
www.kegkits.com
256-656-1924

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of John Robbins
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 1:36 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: [MBZ] R12 is Good Stuff

Filled up the 190D with almost two cans of R12 today.  Got 35*F vent
temps going 45MPH with 81* ambient and 50% humidity .  Could get 50*
vent temps at 1500RPM in the driveway.

Now if the brand new high pressure switch would stop leaking when I turn
the A/C on...

John
'84 190D
'87 300TD

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[MBZ] R12 is Good Stuff

[John Robbins]

Filled up the 190D with almost two cans of R12 today.  Got 35*F vent 
temps going 45MPH with 81* ambient and 50% humidity .  Could get 50* 
vent temps at 1500RPM in the driveway.


Now if the brand new high pressure switch would stop leaking when I turn 
the A/C on...


John
'84 190D
'87 300TD

Re: [MBZ] R12 replacement

[Fmiser]

rumor has it that Kaleb wrote:

 Do you have to use different hoses?  Was reading up on it and some 
 people are saying that you need different hoses because it has R22 in 
 it.  Freeze12 is R134 mixed with I think 142 or something like that.
 
 Fmiser wrote:
  At some time fairly close to Wed, 12 Apr 2006 21:23:13 -0500,
  rumor has it that Kaleb wrote:
  
  
 Ok, so whats the best alternative to R12 rather than converting to 134? 

  R-406A, Autofrost.
  
  Engineered to be a R-12 topoff, but EPA won't allow that.
  
  I've been using it in my rear-A/C equiped Suburban for about 6 years now.

Nope. Same hoses, orifice, condenser, and evaporator. No high-pressure
cutout switch needed 'cause the temp/pressure curve is quite close to
R-12. Use the same service hoses and gauges as R-12. The only thing I
changed on the car was the dryer.

It does weigh a bit less, so my 25lb cylinder of 406A is equivalent to
a 30lb cylinder of R-12.

--
  Philip, not a true expert, just been there. 

Re: [MBZ] R12 replacement

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

Will probably buy a case of that stuff and give it a try

Fmiser wrote:

rumor has it that Kaleb wrote:

Do you have to use different hoses?  Was reading up on it and some 
people are saying that you need different hoses because it has R22 in 
it.  Freeze12 is R134 mixed with I think 142 or something like that.


Fmiser wrote:

At some time fairly close to Wed, 12 Apr 2006 21:23:13 -0500,
rumor has it that Kaleb wrote:


Ok, so whats the best alternative to R12 rather than converting to 134? 



R-406A, Autofrost.

Engineered to be a R-12 topoff, but EPA won't allow that.

I've been using it in my rear-A/C equiped Suburban for about 6 years now.


Nope. Same hoses, orifice, condenser, and evaporator. No high-pressure
cutout switch needed 'cause the temp/pressure curve is quite close to
R-12. Use the same service hoses and gauges as R-12. The only thing I
changed on the car was the dryer.

It does weigh a bit less, so my 25lb cylinder of 406A is equivalent to
a 30lb cylinder of R-12.

--
  Philip, not a true expert, just been there. 


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Re: [MBZ] R12 replacement

[Trampas]

My understanding is that a lot of the R12 replacement is a mixture of
propane and butane, thus flammable. I use duracool in my cars which is this
propane/butane stuff, it works great and does not require any changes of
hoses or oil. There is some debate on the safety, but I figure it is no
worse than gasoline under 60psi of pressure. 

Trampas

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Kaleb C. Striplin
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 9:26 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] R12 replacement

Will probably buy a case of that stuff and give it a try

Fmiser wrote:
 rumor has it that Kaleb wrote:
 
 Do you have to use different hoses?  Was reading up on it and some 
 people are saying that you need different hoses because it has R22 in 
 it.  Freeze12 is R134 mixed with I think 142 or something like that.

 Fmiser wrote:
 At some time fairly close to Wed, 12 Apr 2006 21:23:13 -0500,
 rumor has it that Kaleb wrote:


 Ok, so whats the best alternative to R12 rather than converting to 134?

 
 R-406A, Autofrost.

 Engineered to be a R-12 topoff, but EPA won't allow that.

 I've been using it in my rear-A/C equiped Suburban for about 6 years
now.
 
 Nope. Same hoses, orifice, condenser, and evaporator. No high-pressure
 cutout switch needed 'cause the temp/pressure curve is quite close to
 R-12. Use the same service hoses and gauges as R-12. The only thing I
 changed on the car was the dryer.
 
 It does weigh a bit less, so my 25lb cylinder of 406A is equivalent to
 a 30lb cylinder of R-12.
 
 --
   Philip, not a true expert, just been there. 
 
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Re: [MBZ] R12 replacement

[Fmiser]

rumor has it that Trampas wrote:

 My understanding is that a lot of the R12 replacement is a mixture of
 propane and butane, thus flammable. I use duracool in my cars which is this
 propane/butane stuff, it works great and does not require any changes of
 hoses or oil. There is some debate on the safety, but I figure it is no
 worse than gasoline under 60psi of pressure. 

I have heard that because there is oil, even R-12 acts flammable. And
that the oil is more likely to ignite than the butane or propane.

But I haven't tried it myself, so I don't really know...

Philip, thinking it's about time to check the AC systems

[MBZ] R12 replacement

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

Ok, so whats the best alternative to R12 rather than converting to 134? 
 Tried duracool and last time I ordered it stuff didnt seem to work 
hardly at all.  Have a couple of virgin r12 systems that need to be 
recharged and want to try something else?  Freeze12?  Dont think I like 
the envirosafe from what I remember.  What else has people used?  Want 
something that can work with either the mineral oil or the stuff for 134

Re: [MBZ] R12 replacement

[Mitch Haley]

Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
 
 Ok, so whats the best alternative to R12 rather than converting to 134?

Autofrost R406A?
I think Duracool and Envirosafe are among the propane/isobutane blends.
Jim Cathey seems to like him homeblended iso/propane nix, maybe it's
just too hot where you are? As demand drops, the price of R12 actually
seems to have gone down in the last couple of years. With the R134a and
substitutes going up in price, R12 doesn't seeem so bad if you can get
30lb for $4-500. 

I think a 30lb equivalent of R406a is about $200 delivered. The two can
kit is way high, something like $50 for two cans, tapper, and fittings. 
I've been tempted to get a cylinder or two of R406, I think I can get
two for $370. 22lb of it fills as many cars as 30lb of R12. 
Mitch.

Re: [MBZ] R12 replacement

[Jim Cathey]

I think a 30lb equivalent of R406a is about $200 delivered. The two can
kit is way high, something like $50 for two cans, tapper, and fittings.


Homebrew is about $8 per fillup.  Right around what you used to
be able to do R12 for.

-- Jim

Re: [MBZ] R12 replacement

[Curt Raymond]

I'm in pretty much the same boat, my 190D's AC gets sort of cool but thats it, 
I expect its low.
  Is there a good way to tell if its been converted to 134?
   
  -Curt
   
  Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 21:23:13 -0500
From: Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [MBZ] R12 replacement
To: Mercedes Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED],
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Ok, so whats the best alternative to R12 rather than converting to 134? 
  Tried duracool and last time I ordered it stuff didnt seem to work 
hardly at all.  Have a couple of virgin r12 systems that need to be 
recharged and want to try something else?  Freeze12?  Dont think I like 
the envirosafe from what I remember.  What else has people used?  Want 
something that can work with either the mineral oil or the stuff for 
134



-
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its supposed to have different fittings and a new label.

Curt Raymond wrote:

 I'm in pretty much the same boat, my 190D's AC gets sort of cool but thats 
 it, I expect its low.
   Is there a good way to tell if its been converted to 134?

   -Curt

   Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 21:23:13 -0500
 From: Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: [MBZ] R12 replacement
 To: Mercedes Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED],
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
 
 Ok, so whats the best alternative to R12 rather than converting to 134? 
   Tried duracool and last time I ordered it stuff didnt seem to work 
 hardly at all.  Have a couple of virgin r12 systems that need to be 
 recharged and want to try something else?  Freeze12?  Dont think I like 
 the envirosafe from what I remember.  What else has people used?  Want 
 something that can work with either the mineral oil or the stuff for 
 134
 
 
   
 -
 Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make  PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! 
 Messenger with Voice.
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-- 
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
  90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D,
  84 190D 2.2, 83 300TD, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 81 240D,
  76 450SEL, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 72 250C, 69 250
http://www.striplin.net

Re: [MBZ] R12 replacement

[Dave M.]

Hey Kaleb,

Try this stuff:

http://www.autocool-refrigerants.com/envirosafe_tech.htm

:)

-dm

 --
  Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 21:23:13 -0500
 From: Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: [MBZ] R12 replacement


 Ok, so whats the best alternative to R12 rather than converting to 134?
  Tried duracool and last time I ordered it stuff didnt seem to work
 hardly at all.  Have a couple of virgin r12 systems that need to be
 recharged and want to try something else?  Freeze12?  Dont think I like
 the envirosafe from what I remember.  What else has people used?  Want
 something that can work with either the mineral oil or the stuff for
 134

Re: [MBZ] R12 replacement

[Joe Knight]

I'm wondering if you maybe didn't just overcharge with duracool,
Kaleb.  IIRC, quantities  charge pressure are supposed to be
considerably lower with HC replacements.

joe

Re: [MBZ] R12 replacement

[Levi Smith]

Speaking of AC...
Could someone confirm for me which hose is which?  I.e. I don't suppose that
nice easy to reach hose on top of my 83' 300D happens to be the low side?

Mine had R134 when I got it and I just bought a can and a hose with a gauge
on it for $17 that says to be sure I avoid the high side so as to avoid
blowing up the can...

Thanks,
Levi

On 4/13/06, Joe Knight [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I'm wondering if you maybe didn't just overcharge with duracool,
 Kaleb.  IIRC, quantities  charge pressure are supposed to be
 considerably lower with HC replacements.

 joe

 ___
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Re: [MBZ] R12 replacement

[Fmiser]

At some time fairly close to Wed, 12 Apr 2006 21:23:13 -0500,
rumor has it that Kaleb wrote:

 Ok, so whats the best alternative to R12 rather than converting to 134? 
   Tried duracool and last time I ordered it stuff didnt seem to work 
 hardly at all.  Have a couple of virgin r12 systems that need to be 
 recharged and want to try something else?  Freeze12?  Dont think I like 
 the envirosafe from what I remember.  What else has people used?  Want 
 something that can work with either the mineral oil or the stuff for 134

R-406A, Autofrost.

Engineered to be a R-12 topoff, but EPA won't allow that.

I've been using it in my rear-A/C equiped Suburban for about 6 years now.

--
Philip, dreaming of a diesel MB replacement for the Suburban...

Re: [MBZ] R12 replacement

[Bob Rentfro]

Low side is larger diameter...

Bob Rentfro

- Original Message - 
From: Levi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Mercedes Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 9:44 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] R12 replacement



Speaking of AC...
Could someone confirm for me which hose is which?  I.e. I don't suppose 
that

nice easy to reach hose on top of my 83' 300D happens to be the low side?

Mine had R134 when I got it and I just bought a can and a hose with a 
gauge

on it for $17 that says to be sure I avoid the high side so as to avoid
blowing up the can...

Thanks,
Levi

On 4/13/06, Joe Knight [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


I'm wondering if you maybe didn't just overcharge with duracool,
Kaleb.  IIRC, quantities  charge pressure are supposed to be
considerably lower with HC replacements.

joe

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Re: [MBZ] R12 replacement

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

No, I intalled it by weight.

Joe Knight wrote:


I'm wondering if you maybe didn't just overcharge with duracool,
Kaleb.  IIRC, quantities  charge pressure are supposed to be
considerably lower with HC replacements.

joe

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--
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D,
 84 190D 2.2, 83 300TD, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 81 240D,
 76 450SEL, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 72 250C, 69 250
http://www.striplin.net

Re: [MBZ] R12 replacement

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

Do you have to use different hoses?  Was reading up on it and some 
people are saying that you need different hoses because it has R22 in 
it.  Freeze12 is R134 mixed with I think 142 or something like that.


Fmiser wrote:

At some time fairly close to Wed, 12 Apr 2006 21:23:13 -0500,
rumor has it that Kaleb wrote:


Ok, so whats the best alternative to R12 rather than converting to 134? 
 Tried duracool and last time I ordered it stuff didnt seem to work 
hardly at all.  Have a couple of virgin r12 systems that need to be 
recharged and want to try something else?  Freeze12?  Dont think I like 
the envirosafe from what I remember.  What else has people used?  Want 
something that can work with either the mineral oil or the stuff for 134



R-406A, Autofrost.

Engineered to be a R-12 topoff, but EPA won't allow that.

I've been using it in my rear-A/C equiped Suburban for about 6 years now.

--
Philip, dreaming of a diesel MB replacement for the Suburban...

___
http://www.striplin.net
For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/
For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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--
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D,
 84 190D 2.2, 83 300TD, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 81 240D,
 76 450SEL, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 72 250C, 69 250
http://www.striplin.net

Re: [MBZ] R12 replacement

[Jim Cathey]

Could someone confirm for me which hose is which?  I.e. I don't 
suppose that
nice easy to reach hose on top of my 83' 300D happens to be the low 
side?


It is, in fact.  The high-side fitting is underneath the alternator.
(Stupid place!)  When in doubt, follow the hoses from the compressor.
The one that goes to the receiver-drier is the high side.

-- Jim

Re: [MBZ] R12 replacement

[Jim Cathey]

Is there a good way to tell if its been converted to 134?


It's supposed to have different fittings screwed into it.
Another way is if the system fails grotesquely in a year or two.
If so, it was converted!  (Yes, I have an opinion.  I un-converted
the latest 560 SL we bought.)

-- Jim

Re: [MBZ] R12

[72benz250]

Hey Mitch,

Any details on that? what happened?

Any particular sellers to avoid?

Thx

George

-- Original message -- 

 Constantine N. Polites wrote: 
  
  I just ordered a 30# cylinder from Donald Knieriem in Hardin KT. Tel. 
  270 354 8710. Cost $ 395 plus $ 40 shipping. 
  He has a few left. They are said to be virgin R-12, not reprocessed. 
 
 Let us know when you get it. I've spent $580 on a couple cans of R12 
 from ebay auctions, and got nothing. 
 
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[MBZ] R12

[Constantine N. Polites]

I just ordered a 30# cylinder from Donald Knieriem in Hardin KT.   Tel. 
270 354 8710.  Cost $ 395  plus $ 40 shipping.
He has a few left.  They are said to be virgin R-12, not reprocessed.  
Details off line.

Constantine

Re: [MBZ] R12

[Mitch Haley]

Constantine N. Polites wrote:
 
 I just ordered a 30# cylinder from Donald Knieriem in Hardin KT.   Tel.
 270 354 8710.  Cost $ 395  plus $ 40 shipping.
 He has a few left.  They are said to be virgin R-12, not reprocessed.

Let us know when you get it. I've spent $580 on a couple cans of R12 
from ebay auctions, and got nothing.