Re: [MBZ] reminded tonight how bad old diesels are in the snow
The SDL did exceptionally in the grand voyage from SEA to ND and back two years ago. Junk chinee tars that were maybe 6 months old, driving at speed in the dark of night. At one point through blinding snow for maybe 20 miles with all manner of vehicles in ditches and medians, spun out or upside down. Big rigs, little subaru, lots of FWD, pickem up trucks both lifted and normal. clay 1974 450sl - Frosch - Two tone green 1082 SD - Allen 1986 SDL - Polei retired models- 2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately & well tailored crap 1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery 1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran 1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers > On Mar 8, 2019, at 5:32 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes > wrote: > > Schnee performance depends on: > > 1. Tire performance. (min of Blizzaks, max of hakkas) > 2. See #1 (repeat) No fat tires. Stock size. The engineers picked the > best tire size. > 3. Driver experience/ability > 4. Weight over drive wheels > > Note 1: Front wheel drive is less controllable in slick conditions than RWD. > The contact patch between the tire and the pavement is the same size, > regardless of RWD, FWD or 4WD. 4WD makes no difference in starting or > stopping, but IS as uncontollable as FWD once the front tires lose grip. FWD > and 4WD will put you in the diitch faster. Gimme an SDL on Blizzaks and I > can go anywhere in ice or snow until it gets so deep the belly pan floats the > car on the schnee. > > Note 2: You will notice the type of vehicle is not listed because it makes > minimal difference. > > Scariest drive I ever had was in the crand caravan in 2006 or so when I got > caught on the east shore of lake michigan with summer tars when it started to > snow. All I tried to do was drive to the nearest wally world to buy winter > tars. It was the worst white knuckle ever, and the schnee was not that deep > yet. 1-3" ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] reminded tonight how bad old diesels are in the snow
> Note 2: You will notice the type of vehicle is not listed because it makes > minimal difference. Geometry matters. Short and square like a Jeep CJ is evil. Long and strung out, like my Dodge pickup, seems to not want to swap ends very easily. Same general effect as a tall vs short unicycle. Taller is _easier_ to ride, because you have more time to correct things as they go wrong, due to the much greater angular moment of inertia. (But harder to mount, and worse for you if you do manage to fall and not land on your feet.) IMHO, the more a vehicle resembles a cube, the more it resembles dice. Any side forwards/up is OK by it! But generally I agree with you. My son has been driving the 190D, with all-season tires on it. New ones, but still... He's slid off the road several times. Sometimes he gets out, sometimes I have to go with a rope. I figure anything like this that doesn't kill him actually makes him a better driver. He: "Dad, I was going slow around that corner." Me: "Clearly not slow enough." > hakkas are big bucks. And so far, to me, worth it. They last a long time, too. Jill's are on the seventh year of service, and still going strong. The studs are pretty much worn off, but the tread is still awesome and they clearly work well. However, she took a nail and drove on it flat for long enough to destroy one of them, so if we keep the car I guess we'll have to cough up another $850, or whatever it is now. I bought her a set for her SL, before we were married, and we kept them when she sold the car. The last one retired on the Frankenheap, it was pretty much worn out. A solid 15 years, maybe more. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] reminded tonight how bad old diesels are in the snow
Schnee performance depends on: 1. Tire performance. (min of Blizzaks, max of hakkas) 2. See #1 (repeat) No fat tires. Stock size. The engineers picked the best tire size. 3. Driver experience/ability 4. Weight over drive wheels Note 1: Front wheel drive is less controllable in slick conditions than RWD. The contact patch between the tire and the pavement is the same size, regardless of RWD, FWD or 4WD. 4WD makes no difference in starting or stopping, but IS as uncontollable as FWD once the front tires lose grip. FWD and 4WD will put you in the diitch faster. Gimme an SDL on Blizzaks and I can go anywhere in ice or snow until it gets so deep the belly pan floats the car on the schnee. Note 2: You will notice the type of vehicle is not listed because it makes minimal difference. Scariest drive I ever had was in the crand caravan in 2006 or so when I got caught on the east shore of lake michigan with summer tars when it started to snow. All I tried to do was drive to the nearest wally world to buy winter tars. It was the worst white knuckle ever, and the schnee was not that deep yet. 1-3" Clay Monroe via Mercedes wrote on 3/8/19 3:52 PM: how is the BMW in the snow? clay monroe ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] reminded tonight how bad old diesels are in the snow
Same place he was last week and the week before! Pay attention! Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote on 3/8/19 3:43 PM: Where is this? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] reminded tonight how bad old diesels are in the snow
no comparison between "all season" and real schnee tars. Blizzaks have a Metzler heritage and are available at tar rack prices (ask for price match) at your local farstone dealer. They are available at competitive prices similar to a low-mid to mid range summer tar. hakkas are big bucks. Allan Streib via Mercedes wrote on 3/8/19 11:16 AM: Yes, admittedly the tires are not suitable for snow. They aren't old, but they are your standard "all season" touring tread and are doing nothing in the snow. Didn't buy snow tires for it this winter because I hadn't even planned on driving it. I like to keep it out of the salt. But circumstances changed. We're close enough to spring was hoping to get away with it. I think I have a couple of bags of hardened Sakrete and a few extra wheels in the garatge, I'll try throwing those in the trunk. Allan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] reminded tonight how bad old diesels are in the snow
> how is the BMW in the snow? In fact, it would be my _first_ choice from our stable when going into harm's way. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] reminded tonight how bad old diesels are in the snow
The AWD X5, 2006, with studded Hakkapeliittas on all four corners, has been _excellent_ in the snow. Our dissatisfaction with this car has nothing to do with its functionality, and everything to do with its insatiable appetite for money. (Comparatively speaking.) -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] reminded tonight how bad old diesels are in the snow
how is the BMW in the snow? clay monroe > I turned my computer upside down and shook it, but the bookmark for what I'm > looking for didn't fall out. > On Mar 8, 2019, at 7:18 AM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes > wrote: > >>> Need better tires and some weight in the back. > > This utterly transformed my death-trap Camaro. 200# of sand over the drive > wheels was what I used. And in a pinch you could always slice open a tube > and throw some under the wheels. > > I use(d) Nokian Hakkapeliittas on the Frankenheap W115 200D, and usually had > a bunch > of crap in the trunk. That car did _very_ well in the snow, and the Hakkas > last for years. > I remember well chuffing through powder snow drifts that swept over the hood > of the > car. Until we were forced to stop by some dumb-ass who had stopped in the > middle of > the road, at an uphill stop sign, which under those conditions need be merely > advisory, > we were unstoppable. > > I'll take a well set up rwd car any day over a poorly set up 4wd. > > -- Jim clay monroe > I turned my computer upside down and shook it, but the bookmark for what I'm > looking for didn't fall out. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] reminded tonight how bad old diesels are in the snow
Where is this? On Fri, Mar 8, 2019 at 4:23 PM Clay Monroe via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > Well, that changes the optics of my dragging the SD up here once I get a > fresh engine in her. Temps are just getting past freezing, the streets are > beginning to get slushy. I get to walk the dog. One road has massive > divots in the six inches of ice on the road where either the garbage truck > or other dually truck lost all traction and spun a bunch of hot rubber. > > clay monroe > > > I turned my computer upside down and shook it, but the bookmark for what > I'm looking for didn't fall out. > > > > > On Mar 7, 2019, at 6:24 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > > > Too much torque, weight all in the front. > > > > Had maybe 1" or 2" of snow, could not get home in the 300SD. Stranded at > > the bottom of the hill about 1/2 mile from my house. Had to have the boy > > come in the Frontier with a tow chain to pull me up. > > > > Rear wheels were spinning at idle. > > > > Need to pay more attention to the weather forecast. > > > > Allan > > > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] reminded tonight how bad old diesels are in the snow
Well, that changes the optics of my dragging the SD up here once I get a fresh engine in her. Temps are just getting past freezing, the streets are beginning to get slushy. I get to walk the dog. One road has massive divots in the six inches of ice on the road where either the garbage truck or other dually truck lost all traction and spun a bunch of hot rubber. clay monroe > I turned my computer upside down and shook it, but the bookmark for what I'm > looking for didn't fall out. > On Mar 7, 2019, at 6:24 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes > wrote: > > Too much torque, weight all in the front. > > Had maybe 1" or 2" of snow, could not get home in the 300SD. Stranded at > the bottom of the hill about 1/2 mile from my house. Had to have the boy > come in the Frontier with a tow chain to pull me up. > > Rear wheels were spinning at idle. > > Need to pay more attention to the weather forecast. > > Allan > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] reminded tonight how bad old diesels are in the snow
Yes, admittedly the tires are not suitable for snow. They aren't old, but they are your standard "all season" touring tread and are doing nothing in the snow. Didn't buy snow tires for it this winter because I hadn't even planned on driving it. I like to keep it out of the salt. But circumstances changed. We're close enough to spring was hoping to get away with it. I think I have a couple of bags of hardened Sakrete and a few extra wheels in the garatge, I'll try throwing those in the trunk. Allan Jim Cathey via Mercedes writes: >>> Need better tires and some weight in the back. > > This utterly transformed my death-trap Camaro. 200# of sand over the drive > wheels was what I used. And in a pinch you could always slice open a tube > and throw some under the wheels. > > I use(d) Nokian Hakkapeliittas on the Frankenheap W115 200D, and usually had > a bunch > of crap in the trunk. That car did _very_ well in the snow, and the Hakkas > last for years. > I remember well chuffing through powder snow drifts that swept over the hood > of the > car. Until we were forced to stop by some dumb-ass who had stopped in the > middle of > the road, at an uphill stop sign, which under those conditions need be merely > advisory, > we were unstoppable. > > I'll take a well set up rwd car any day over a poorly set up 4wd. > > -- Jim > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > -- Allan Streib Indiana University School of Informatics, Computing, and Engineering Digital Science Center | Intelligent Systems Engineering | FutureSystems ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] reminded tonight how bad old diesels are in the snow
>> Need better tires and some weight in the back. This utterly transformed my death-trap Camaro. 200# of sand over the drive wheels was what I used. And in a pinch you could always slice open a tube and throw some under the wheels. I use(d) Nokian Hakkapeliittas on the Frankenheap W115 200D, and usually had a bunch of crap in the trunk. That car did _very_ well in the snow, and the Hakkas last for years. I remember well chuffing through powder snow drifts that swept over the hood of the car. Until we were forced to stop by some dumb-ass who had stopped in the middle of the road, at an uphill stop sign, which under those conditions need be merely advisory, we were unstoppable. I'll take a well set up rwd car any day over a poorly set up 4wd. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] reminded tonight how bad old diesels are in the snow
On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 15:18:59 + (UTC) Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote: > Need better tires and some weight in the back. I will concur with the need for better tires -- those which have a least the mountain and snowflake symbol on them. When I got our '94 E420, it had Yokohama tires on it which were horrible in the snow. I could not make it up a short slight hill out of the parking lot at work with out taking a run at it. I put on Nokians (I forget the model, but not Hakkapelita) and it was very much improved, even without weight in the trunk. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] reminded tonight how bad old diesels are in the snow
Need better tires and some weight in the back. My 240Ds and 190Ds never let me down or left me stuck. My '85 190D once drove home in an epic snowstorm, I was climbing one big hill with a Toyota 4x4 next to me crab walking in 4wd with 4 wheels spinning. I had just gotten snow tires on the 190D and it walked right up the hill, 2nd gear, light on the accelerator, no issue. When I got home I was plowing 6" of snow. If I stopped I'd have to back up a few feet to get going again but once moving it'd keep going... -Curt On Thursday, March 7, 2019, 10:25:20 PM EST, Allan Streib via Mercedes wrote: Too much torque, weight all in the front. Had maybe 1" or 2" of snow, could not get home in the 300SD. Stranded at the bottom of the hill about 1/2 mile from my house. Had to have the boy come in the Frontier with a tow chain to pull me up. Rear wheels were spinning at idle. Need to pay more attention to the weather forecast. Allan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] reminded tonight how bad old diesels are in the snow
you need Blizzaks on the rear at least, and one sand tune on each side in the trunk. you will be AMAZED! MY diesels will go ANYWHERE in schnee/blizzard conditions, and have for lots of year and lots of miles. When I drove long distances almost every day in all conditions, I put Blizzaks on all 4 corners. It seemed as though it would even climb a tree so long as it was covered with schnee. Actually they have great weight distribution if there are passengers or cargo. with only and driver and no pass. you need 2 sand tubes in the trunk. The huge difference is in the tires. Old Diesel are great, Old tars, and old General or uniroyal tars in particular, are no good on schnee. Allan Streib via Mercedes wrote on 3/7/19 9:24 PM: Too much torque, weight all in the front. Had maybe 1" or 2" of snow, could not get home in the 300SD. Stranded at the bottom of the hill about 1/2 mile from my house. Had to have the boy come in the Frontier with a tow chain to pull me up. Rear wheels were spinning at idle. Need to pay more attention to the weather forecast. Allan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] reminded tonight how bad old diesels are in the snow
Time to install sand bags in the trunk, along with tire chains for drive wheels. In the old days, when I lived in snow and cold country with pick up trucks [empty truck beds have no load weight over drive wheels] always carried sand bags stacked behind wheel wells in bed of truck, Ratchet straps around the stack to keep them from shifting.. Worked quite well. If you get stuck, open a bag of sand and you have instant traction... if you need it. On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 8:25 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > Too much torque, weight all in the front. > > Had maybe 1" or 2" of snow, could not get home in the 300SD. Stranded at > the bottom of the hill about 1/2 mile from my house. Had to have the boy > come in the Frontier with a tow chain to pull me up. > > Rear wheels were spinning at idle. > > Need to pay more attention to the weather forecast. > > Allan > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] reminded tonight how bad old diesels are in the snow
Too much torque, weight all in the front. Had maybe 1" or 2" of snow, could not get home in the 300SD. Stranded at the bottom of the hill about 1/2 mile from my house. Had to have the boy come in the Frontier with a tow chain to pull me up. Rear wheels were spinning at idle. Need to pay more attention to the weather forecast. Allan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
