Re: [MBZ] Brake bleeding
Speaking of brake bleeding -- I need to replace my brake fluid - reading job 4280 talks of draining the ASD unit by opening the valve, & draining the fluid from the ASD unit. Then each wheel has its fluid replaced and finally with ASD drain valve still open the engine is started and the ASD allowed to be forced of old fluid and replaced with new indicated by clear fluid flowing from drain valve.It sounds pretty simple but I worry about any surprises. Of course they tell of using a Pressure Bleeder to replace the fluid to each wheel which I plan to do. Am I missing anything? I've never done any maintenance to the ASD unit and wonder if draining the ASD unit is needed? The fluid in the Brake Reservoir is definitely ready to be replaced but I have no idea about the ASD unit - in normal use, does the fluid in the ASD get replaced? Does fluid flow through it? I guess I'm hesitant because it's something new to me but I may have to bite the bullet perhaps Thanks for any comments about the ASDand replacing the fluid. Thanks Gang - LarryT 91 300D W124-128 On 7/15/2013 8:09 PM, Curt Raymond wrote: Just like my results with my '84 190D. The pressure bleeder made all the difference... -Curt Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 10:18:10 -0400 From: Rich Thomas To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Brake bleeding Message-ID: <51e404a2.5070...@constructivity.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed I only pumped the pedal after all the bleeding, did not pump it to the floor, partway maybe 3-4 times when it got hard. I took that to be sucking fluid into the MC after the draining/bleeding/all new fluid. I'll give another try bleeding, maybe fix up a pressure cap and give that a try. Might be time for a new MC anyway as long as I am refreshing the brake system. This car (84) does not have ABS. --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Brake bleeding
Just like my results with my '84 190D. The pressure bleeder made all the difference... -Curt Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 10:18:10 -0400 From: Rich Thomas To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Brake bleeding Message-ID: <51e404a2.5070...@constructivity.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed I only pumped the pedal after all the bleeding, did not pump it to the floor, partway maybe 3-4 times when it got hard. I took that to be sucking fluid into the MC after the draining/bleeding/all new fluid. I'll give another try bleeding, maybe fix up a pressure cap and give that a try. Might be time for a new MC anyway as long as I am refreshing the brake system. This car (84) does not have ABS. --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Brake bleeding
Rich Thomas wrote: I'll give another try bleeding, maybe fix up a pressure cap and give that a try. Might be time for a new MC anyway as long as I am refreshing the brake system. I was pretty sure the Olds' MC got damaged with the pump and bleed, because I had clear fluid running on all four corners and a very flaccid pedal that could be pumped up a bit but seemed to drop if I held it down. In desperation I bled it one more time, and the corner where I'd replaced a broken line gave up quite a bit of air. Since that circuit had drained through the old broken line, all the fluid there was new. When I got an ounce of new fluid with no bubbles I didn't think there could be bubbles behind it, but there were. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Brake bleeding
I only pumped the pedal after all the bleeding, did not pump it to the floor, partway maybe 3-4 times when it got hard. I took that to be sucking fluid into the MC after the draining/bleeding/all new fluid. I'll give another try bleeding, maybe fix up a pressure cap and give that a try. Might be time for a new MC anyway as long as I am refreshing the brake system. This car (84) does not have ABS. --R On 7/15/13 7:45 AM, Mitch Haley wrote: Andrew Strasfogel wrote: Master cylinders love to go south just after you change rotors, calipers, pads etc. When that's the timing, it's usually because the bleeding was done by pedal pumping, and the pedal went lower than it ever went in driving. If there was a ridge of crud on the cylinder wall at the bottom of normal pedal application, pushing the piston past that can damage the edge of the piston seal. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Brake bleeding
A couple months ago I had a similar problem solved by borrowing Fred's Speedy Bleeder and I vowed that I would never bleed brakes again without a speedy bleeder. Took 2 seconds with that almost magical tool... -Curt Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2013 19:23:10 -0400 From: Rich Thomas To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: [MBZ] Brake bleeding Message-ID: <51e332de.8040...@constructivity.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed I got the new front brake rotors and calipers/pads on the 84 SD, spent like an hour bleeding the system, putting in new DOT4 fluid. Went around 3 times sucking fluid with the MityVac, was getting a tiny bit of air but it seemed mostly to be leaking around the bleeder threads (I did wrap them all with some teflon tape to try to seal better) or my bleeder hose (which seems to fit fairly tightly). I was not getting much air on the final bleed. The pedal seemed pretty hard, but when I went out to bed in the pads, the pedal was getting a little soft and going down slowly as I held it, so it appears there is still some air in there. Question: how do I get that last bit of air out? I have been successful on the other SD and the TD but this thing seems to be intransigent. Should I go around again and suck out more fluid? Or should I make a pressure cap to do a pressure bleed? Ideas welcomed, I don't want to loose my break petal! --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Brake bleeding
Andrew Strasfogel wrote: Master cylinders love to go south just after you change rotors, calipers, pads etc. When that's the timing, it's usually because the bleeding was done by pedal pumping, and the pedal went lower than it ever went in driving. If there was a ridge of crud on the cylinder wall at the bottom of normal pedal application, pushing the piston past that can damage the edge of the piston seal. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Brake bleeding
On Jul 14, 2013, at 10:48 PM, "Scott Ritchey" wrote: > I'd rule out other problems first but > you may have a sick MC. It is not cheap either. http://www.autohausaz.com/search/product.aspx?sid=yglzay45j54svz45lxbg2g55&makeid=800016@Mercedes&modelid=1194038@300SD&year=1984&cid=14@Brake%20%26%20Wheel%20Hub&gid=1836@Brake%20Master%20Cylinder Cheaper at the Rock. 62 + 20 core for a rebuilt. Rick Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Brake bleeding
> Rich wrote: > > The pedal seemed pretty hard, but when I went out to bed > in the pads, the pedal was getting a little soft and going down > slowly as I held it, so it appears there is still some air in > there. A sinking pedal is rarely air. That is the symptom of a leak or master cylinder seals. --Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Brake bleeding
On Sun, 14 Jul 2013 23:48:42 -0400 "Scott Ritchey" wrote: > > The slow sinking pedal sounds more like a master cylinder (MC) problem > than air in the lines. On an old MC the area routinely "swept" by the > piston stays smooth but the untouched part of the cylinder can get > rough enough to chew up the piston seal. So if the pedal gets pushed > beyond the normal range it can wreck the piston seal. Which is why one does not want to use the old "pump the pedal" routine but instead pressure or vacuum bleed. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Brake bleeding
The slow sinking pedal sounds more like a master cylinder (MC) problem than air in the lines. On an old MC the area routinely "swept" by the piston stays smooth but the untouched part of the cylinder can get rough enough to chew up the piston seal. So if the pedal gets pushed beyond the normal range it can wreck the piston seal. I'd rule out other problems first but you may have a sick MC. Scott -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Rich Thomas Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 7:23 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: [MBZ] Brake bleeding I got the new front brake rotors and calipers/pads on the 84 SD, spent like an hour bleeding the system, putting in new DOT4 fluid. Went around 3 times sucking fluid with the MityVac, was getting a tiny bit of air but it seemed mostly to be leaking around the bleeder threads (I did wrap them all with some teflon tape to try to seal better) or my bleeder hose (which seems to fit fairly tightly). I was not getting much air on the final bleed. The pedal seemed pretty hard, but when I went out to bed in the pads, the pedal was getting a little soft and going down slowly as I held it, so it appears there is still some air in there. Question: how do I get that last bit of air out? I have been successful on the other SD and the TD but this thing seems to be intransigent. Should I go around again and suck out more fluid? Or should I make a pressure cap to do a pressure bleed? Ideas welcomed, I don't want to loose my break petal! --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Brake bleeding
Don't think so, was fine before. --R (sent from my miniPad) On Jul 14, 2013, at 7:37 PM, dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: Could there be a MC issue? Sent from my iPhone On Jul 14, 2013, at 7:23 PM, Rich Thomas wrote: > I got the new front brake rotors and calipers/pads on the 84 SD, spent like > an hour bleeding the system, putting in new DOT4 fluid. Went around 3 times > sucking fluid with the MityVac, was getting a tiny bit of air but it seemed > mostly to be leaking around the bleeder threads (I did wrap them all with > some teflon tape to try to seal better) or my bleeder hose (which seems to > fit fairly tightly). I was not getting much air on the final bleed. The > pedal seemed pretty hard, but when I went out to bed in the pads, the pedal > was getting a little soft and going down slowly as I held it, so it appears > there is still some air in there. > > Question: how do I get that last bit of air out? I have been successful on > the other SD and the TD but this thing seems to be intransigent. Should I go > around again and suck out more fluid? Or should I make a pressure cap to do > a pressure bleed? > > Ideas welcomed, I don't want to loose my break petal! > > --R > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Brake bleeding
Pick a flower and enjoy it's beauty on your dining table :) Luther KB5QHUForest Park, IL '98 ML320 "Max" (168,xxx mi) On 7/14/2013 6:23 PM, Rich Thomas wrote: Ideas welcomed, I don't want to loose my break petal! --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Brake bleeding
Master cylinders love to go south just after you change rotors, calipers, pads etc. On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 8:52 PM, OK Don wrote: > Is it pre-ABS? If so, just open the bleeder valves and let gravity do the > work - not going to introduce any air that way (not that I see hoe the > mityvac would either). If that doesn't work, and the resevior doesn't get > too low, you have a master cylinder to replace/rebuild. > > > On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 6:58 PM, Craig wrote: > > > On Sun, 14 Jul 2013 19:23:10 -0400 Rich Thomas > > wrote: > > > > > Question: how do I get that last bit of air out? I have been > > > successful on the other SD and the TD but this thing seems to be > > > intransigent. Should I go around again and suck out more fluid? Or > > > should I make a pressure cap to do a pressure bleed? > > > > > > Ideas welcomed, I don't want to loose my break petal! > > > > I would do a pressure bleed, but then again I have one of those > > SpeedyBleed gizmos that make it easier. > > > > > > Craig > > > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > > -- > OK Don > 2013 F150, 19 mpg > 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 45 mpg > 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Brake bleeding
Is it pre-ABS? If so, just open the bleeder valves and let gravity do the work - not going to introduce any air that way (not that I see hoe the mityvac would either). If that doesn't work, and the resevior doesn't get too low, you have a master cylinder to replace/rebuild. On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 6:58 PM, Craig wrote: > On Sun, 14 Jul 2013 19:23:10 -0400 Rich Thomas > wrote: > > > Question: how do I get that last bit of air out? I have been > > successful on the other SD and the TD but this thing seems to be > > intransigent. Should I go around again and suck out more fluid? Or > > should I make a pressure cap to do a pressure bleed? > > > > Ideas welcomed, I don't want to loose my break petal! > > I would do a pressure bleed, but then again I have one of those > SpeedyBleed gizmos that make it easier. > > > Craig > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > -- OK Don 2013 F150, 19 mpg 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 45 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Brake bleeding
On Sun, 14 Jul 2013 19:23:10 -0400 Rich Thomas wrote: > Question: how do I get that last bit of air out? I have been > successful on the other SD and the TD but this thing seems to be > intransigent. Should I go around again and suck out more fluid? Or > should I make a pressure cap to do a pressure bleed? > > Ideas welcomed, I don't want to loose my break petal! I would do a pressure bleed, but then again I have one of those SpeedyBleed gizmos that make it easier. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Brake bleeding
Could there be a MC issue? Sent from my iPhone On Jul 14, 2013, at 7:23 PM, Rich Thomas wrote: > I got the new front brake rotors and calipers/pads on the 84 SD, spent like > an hour bleeding the system, putting in new DOT4 fluid. Went around 3 times > sucking fluid with the MityVac, was getting a tiny bit of air but it seemed > mostly to be leaking around the bleeder threads (I did wrap them all with > some teflon tape to try to seal better) or my bleeder hose (which seems to > fit fairly tightly). I was not getting much air on the final bleed. The > pedal seemed pretty hard, but when I went out to bed in the pads, the pedal > was getting a little soft and going down slowly as I held it, so it appears > there is still some air in there. > > Question: how do I get that last bit of air out? I have been successful on > the other SD and the TD but this thing seems to be intransigent. Should I go > around again and suck out more fluid? Or should I make a pressure cap to do > a pressure bleed? > > Ideas welcomed, I don't want to loose my break petal! > > --R > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] Brake bleeding
I got the new front brake rotors and calipers/pads on the 84 SD, spent like an hour bleeding the system, putting in new DOT4 fluid. Went around 3 times sucking fluid with the MityVac, was getting a tiny bit of air but it seemed mostly to be leaking around the bleeder threads (I did wrap them all with some teflon tape to try to seal better) or my bleeder hose (which seems to fit fairly tightly). I was not getting much air on the final bleed. The pedal seemed pretty hard, but when I went out to bed in the pads, the pedal was getting a little soft and going down slowly as I held it, so it appears there is still some air in there. Question: how do I get that last bit of air out? I have been successful on the other SD and the TD but this thing seems to be intransigent. Should I go around again and suck out more fluid? Or should I make a pressure cap to do a pressure bleed? Ideas welcomed, I don't want to loose my break petal! --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
